Guild Wars 2

It’s hilarious how most threads on professions become both a “warrior is OP” and “warrior sucks” thread at the very same time, regardless of what the original post was about.
Anyways ranger was becoming the new fotm, at least it seemed that way in sPvP..guess this will put a dent in that.

“Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.”

The reason most botters run with rangers is the “Search and Rescue” ability, which you will hear them spamming constantly. If one of the bots in the group goes down, the others can use search and rescue to rez him. There is also the fact that the pet tends to pull aggro off nearby mobs protecting the ranger.

I am seeing a lot of botters start to use other classes now. One botter I have seen for weeks in an area I farm who used to run exclusively ranger bot groups is now running with an elementalist, guardian and warrior team. It could just be there were no viable bot programs for the other classes before.

i dont know,i cant tell for sure but i would like a responce from Anet that they test it and its ok though

Rizzy.8293:

Glue Shot for engineers, non elite, reasonable recharge rate.
Binding Roots for Rangers, Elite, crazy long recharge rate

Healing Turret for Engineers, No time limit on regeneration, stay in rage get the benefit.
Healing Spring for Rangers, Has a limited time before it dissapates.

You clearly never played engineer, and didn’t even bother to read the tooltips.

Binding Roots is a human racial skill (cast by the Avatar of Melandru), it has nothing to do with rangers.

Entangle (which is probably what you’re thinking about) lasts 20 seconds, causes damage and bleeding on all targets around you, and reapplies an immobilize every second.

Glue Shot is a 1-second immobilize (which doesn’t refresh) followed by 5 seconds of cripple. The radius is also less than half of Entangle’s.

Healing Spring’s regeneration is 2340 health in 3 seconds. Healing Turret’s is 1040 health in 8 seconds. In addition to that, Healing Spring generates a 15-second water field (which means projectiles passing through it will heal allies near their their target) and cures conditions on everyone. Healing Turret’s water field lasts half a second and it doesn’t cure any conditions.

Additionally, if the engineer forgets to pick up his turret at the end of a fight, he will get a 15-second cooldown when trying to build it elsewhere.

Finally, most enemies can destroy a Healing Turret in a couple of seconds. Healing Spring cannot be destroyed.

Yes, the turret looks like it’s doing more, but Healing Spring is superior in nearly every situation. In fact, when you consider that it will even heal your pet when it’s outside the spring radius, Healing Spring is probably the best healing skill in the whole game.

Botters use Rangers cause of a perma pet and search and rescue
They use SB cause its the best weapon from our mediocre list of kitten.

Still no word from A-net?? kitten it. Time to shelve the ranger then. The list of viable classes is shrinking fast..

Well its warrior,necromancer or engineer. Rifle warrior was already doing better burst than short bow. Warrior got only 1 crap weapon (mace).

"

I love how everyone is claiming the warrior is the most OP or most complete class.

No support
No roaming ability
No tanking
Longbow is only good for area denial

Only thing warriors have is insane burst on stationary targets (use your dodge button and suddenly the warrior does no damage), or CC out the wazoo. You can’t even have access to both.

It’s currently regarded as one of the most useless classes in dungeons and sPvP. There’s a ranger on every tPvP team guaranteed.

It sucks that you got a slight nerf, but don’t try to drag every class with you just because you can’t ultra-bleed people to death anymore."

No support
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/taugrims-captain-hammer-warrior-hammer-mace-1359.html ?
Or you mean Banner Warriors?

No roaming ability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_%28warrior_skill%29

No tanking
Highest HP in game
Highest Armor in game
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Defense
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

FML. The Hammer/2 Mace spec i posted can tank 5 people at once.

Longbow is only good for area denial
Lets trade Ranger and Warrior Longbow shall we?

All of that stuff you posted is done better by every other class.

Warrior is the jack of all trades master of none.

No one takes warriors to tPvP.

Guys… do the math seriously. Take a look at how long bleeds last. Take a long at how often you can shoot your bow. Over the course of those 9 shots that would keep the constant 9 stacks up, those 40ms add up to 0.36s… which is a significant portion of the time it takes to fire a single shortbow shot.

Of course there will be one less stack overall. You’ve lost a third of a second in that time stacking them. They aren’t off by a decimal place. You just forgot to take into consideration that you are shooting more than a single time.

ilJumperMT.4871:

"

I love how everyone is claiming the warrior is the most OP or most complete class.

No support
No roaming ability
No tanking
Longbow is only good for area denial

Only thing warriors have is insane burst on stationary targets (use your dodge button and suddenly the warrior does no damage), or CC out the wazoo. You can’t even have access to both.

It’s currently regarded as one of the most useless classes in dungeons and sPvP. There’s a ranger on every tPvP team guaranteed.

It sucks that you got a slight nerf, but don’t try to drag every class with you just because you can’t ultra-bleed people to death anymore."

---

No support
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/taugrims-captain-hammer-warrior-hammer-mace-1359.html ?
Or you mean Banner Warriors?

No roaming ability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_%28warrior_skill%29

No tanking
Highest HP in game
Highest Armor in game
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Defense
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

FML. The Hammer/2 Mace spec i posted can tank 5 people at once.

Longbow is only good for area denial
Lets trade Ranger and Warrior Longbow shall we?

Everyone isn’t. This thread is suppose to be about the recent ranger patch. I and a lot of rangers don’t think this is a ‘slight’ nerf.

Personally I’m not holding my breath for them to revert this. Was there even any documentation about this so called animation bug? I don’t recall seeing one. I still believe this was an excuse to nerf the shortbow.

I’m already starting to look at another profession (aka class) to change to. If I can’t find one I like then I’ll move on to another game.

ANet’s lack of fixing real Ranger bugs while fixing many many other bugs from every other class for every patch only backs this up even more.

Exactly. We’re losing about 8% efficiency with shortbow skill 1 because of this small adjustment.

veritech.1048:

All of that stuff you posted is done better by every other class.

No way. In my experience, no one can touch the support a fully support specced warrior provides in dungeons. They can drop banners and use abilities that make everyone around them nearly immortal.

I’ve sat there in AC as a ranger, being mobbed by gravelings, and had my health INCREASING due to a support warrior.

Back on topic though: I don’t even remotely think Rangers are underpowered in any way, even with this nerf. IMHO they’re one of the best classes in the game, and a minor nerf to firing rate is not enough to sway my opinion. You could probably argue that their fire rate was already too fast anyway.

Hickeroar.9734:

Back on topic though: I don’t even remotely think Rangers are underpowered in any way, even with this nerf. IMHO they’re one of the best classes in the game, and a minor nerf to firing rate is not enough to sway my opinion. You could probably argue that their fire rate was already too fast anyway.

Warrior troll? I don’t see how you could play ranger and not think they are UP. Unless you have a level 30 ranger that just PvEs.

krojack.4920:

Personally I’m not holding my breath for them to revert this. Was there even any documentation about this so called animation bug? I don’t recall seeing one. I still believe this was an excuse to nerf the shortbow.

I’m already starting to look at another profession (aka class) to change to. If I can’t find one I like then I’ll move on to another game.

ANet’s lack of fixing real Ranger bugs while fixing many many other bugs from every other class for every patch only backs this up even more.

This is my case basically.

Animation bug? Sad excuse to nerf. There was no animation bug.

I love ranger but the class is just really lacking now. Looking at thief to change to. Don’t know if I’ll like it and if I don’t I’ll probably just quit the game entirely for a while.

@Ethics.4519

You don’t play a ranger efficiently if you think they are UP. Sure, they are tougher to play in PvP as they aren’t as effective at 1v1 as something like a warrior or thief… but they are amazing in WvW and PvE. It depends on the build you have in the end, but just clumping them into a corner labeled “UP” is not fair to the class as a whole.

If you’re having issues with health, grab some food that heals on crits, turn yourself into a crit ranger, and heals 1000s hp/sec while in a mob.

If you’re having issues with crowd control, use control-effective weapons like shortbow/longbow with a tanky pet and skills to stop enemies in thier tracks.

If you’re having issues with dps and survivability, DONT MAKE A GLASS CANNON. Seriously, you don’t need all your armour to focus on berserker stats. The higher you are in those areas, the less benefit you’ll get from increasing those stats further. Invest in a couple pieces of armour that affect vitality/toughness.

Just stop complaining about rangers being UP. You won’t get the best of all worlds from a single set of skills or armour build. You can’t do that with any profession. Want a Mary-Sue character? Go back to WoW and roll a deathknight.

TheZeus: I’ve killed many people with my warrior’s rifle.

After clearing a majority of their hp with my melee skills and they start running, I use the burst attack :|

Normally gets them good.

For Faux Sake.8457:

@Ethics.4519

Just stop complaining about rangers being UP. You won’t get the best of all worlds from a single set of skills or armour build. You can’t do that with any profession. Want a Mary-Sue character? Go back to WoW and roll a deathknight.

It’s funny that you act like you know me so well. Don’t tell me to go back to WoW because I’ve been a die hard GW fan since the beginning. I’ve played 2 days of wow and absolutely hated it.

Rangers are UP because their unique distinction is the pet. The pet is horrible in PvP. It can’t attack moving targets and it’s skill takes forever. I’ll admit that having a ranger is nice for the longbow barrage on the wall in WvW, but I didn’t roll a ranger to stand on the wall all day and cast a skill with a very high cd.

sbow is really the only viable build for the ranger and all it has is the auto attack for damage. Yes you can use 2-5 in certain instances, but your damage dealer is the auto attack. That just got nerfed. Not because Anet wanted it nerfed, but because they are applying a stupid fix to glitch that barely anybody got anyways.

QZ Pre-patch – 16 Arrows.
QZ Post-patch – 12 Arrows.

Excluding bleeds that would be 25% decrease in damage during QZ.

Zephyr’s Speed Pre-patch – 8 Arrows
Zephyr’s Speed Post-Patch – 6 Arrows

So Zephyr’s Speed, Trait in Beastmastery that gives 2 seconds of Quickness when swapping pets, also has a 25% decrease in damage (excluding bleeds).

So I think that there is no problem with QZ or ZS but with Quickness.

Why would the topic suggest it is a nerf? I thought they were just supposed to fix a glitch in the animation, that can’t affect damage output of a skill right ? :P

Boomstin.3460:

Why would the topic suggest it is a nerf? I thought they were just supposed to fix a glitch in the animation, that can’t affect damage output of a skill right ? :P

Welcome to the discussion….

Can we please get a response a little more than a sentence response.

Why does a shortbow shoot faster than a rifle anyway? From the video I’ve seen it still shoots fast just not spammable fast.

Cuchullain.3104:

“Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.”

The reason most botters run with rangers is the “Search and Rescue” ability, which you will hear them spamming constantly. If one of the bots in the group goes down, the others can use search and rescue to rez him. There is also the fact that the pet tends to pull aggro off nearby mobs protecting the ranger.

I am seeing a lot of botters start to use other classes now. One botter I have seen for weeks in an area I farm who used to run exclusively ranger bot groups is now running with an elementalist, guardian and warrior team. It could just be there were no viable bot programs for the other classes before.

Doubt that bottting on a ele is a waste of time because of how frail they are. The bot would have to do to much to live. A SB ranger can kill any normal mob with the pet alive by auto attacking.

Wonder if the devs are ever gonna respond to this..

Well one already said they were going to look into it. But a more detailed response about the inner workings. Don’t count on it.

Yea, I may not be a math genius and calculate the bow strike difference from pre to post patch, but I certainly noticed a difference.
I shook my mouse and stared at the screen after the patch. I thought it was some sort of lag!
Good gawd, what were they thinking? Longbow is certainly kittene, only use it for the barrage during mobs in PvE when hubby’s guardian uses burning, then the SB for some quick deaths. C’mon..really?? You guys nerf the Rangers?? Now QZ is crap too!
I’m actually stunned.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look on live right now!

And what did you find?

we found that we should all reroll thief or warrior. /sigh

Not like fixing the longbow was ever an option.

apeik.7391:

we found that we should all reroll thief or warrior. /sigh

Not like fixing the longbow was ever an option.

I’m trying to be patient before I succumb to that conclusion myself.

I’m giving Arenanet the benefit of the doubt here that they did not intentionally nerf the only decent Ranger weapon just to “fix” an animation issue – SURELY they would have just FIXED THE ANIMATION…

Strongfort.2451:

apeik.7391:

we found that we should all reroll thief or warrior. /sigh

Not like fixing the longbow was ever an option.

I’m trying to be patient before I succumb to that conclusion myself.

I’m giving Arenanet the benefit of the doubt here that they did not intentionally nerf the only decent Ranger weapon just to “fix” an animation issue – SURELY they would have FIXED THE ANIMATION…

Someone complained about the animation which practically no-one else noticed. Devs are overworked fixing bugs etc. Some Noob dev suggests easy code fix 40ms delay will cross this off our list. (No one will notice because theoretically 40ms is so small it shouldn’t affect anything.) They agree and implement without testing ot consulting pro Ranger players.

Then bam massive backlash when the true effect of the “miniscule” cosmetic fix is discovered by players.

This is what happens when fixes are rushed and not tested. Could also be that the animation team didn’t consult much if at all with the team that actually works on the class balance.

Used to fire 120 arrows in 60 seconds

Now fires 118 arrows in 60 seconds. That actaully is a .04 nerf. I still dont understand why anyone can’t actually use math.

QZ used to fire 16 arrows in 4 seconds just spamming SB #1.
16 arrows devided by 4 is 4 arrows a second with QZ
Since QZ is 100% haste that means 2 arrows a second without.

That means 120 arrows in 60 seconds.

Now in game I get 118 arrows in 60 seconds.

I’ve spent hours watching ranger videos on youtube to see what everyone else here is seeing but every single ranger video that had full uptime on a player or mob shows exactly 16 arrows during the course of a QZ.

I have no idea how anyone else is getting their number but i’d love for somone to actually prove my math wrong. I really don’t mind getting buffed but using a “supposed” nerf more then they said as a way of getting it means they will not listen to us.

However they did nerf QZ with shortbow because that NOW generates 12 arrows which is much more then the .04 nerf. Our regular auto attack was not nerfed more then indicated

I am really, really, really angry. They killed the remaining heart of our class with this update. There’s a 2 page buglist for our class, but instead of fixing any of the major issues that have been listed there for quite some time now (for example, no major ranger fixes in the last 3 patches I think), they killed the one and only thing that kept our class slightly competitative with the other classes. Nice.
Esport my kitten.

Kildari.2480:

Used to fire 120 arrows in 60 seconds

Now fires 118 arrows in 60 seconds. That actaully is a .04 nerf. I still dont understand why anyone can’t actually use math.

QZ used to fire 16 arrows in 4 seconds just spamming SB #1.
16 arrows devided by 4 is 4 arrows a second with QZ
Since QZ is 100% haste that means 2 arrows a second without.

That means 120 arrows in 60 seconds.

Now in game I get 118 arrows in 60 seconds.

I’ve spent hours watching ranger videos on youtube to see what everyone else here is seeing but every single ranger video that had full uptime on a player or mob shows exactly 16 arrows during the course of a QZ.

I have no idea how anyone else is getting their number but i’d love for somone to actually prove my math wrong. I really don’t mind getting buffed but using a “supposed” nerf more then they said as a way of getting it means they will not listen to us.

However they did nerf QZ with shortbow because that NOW generates 12 arrows which is much more then the .04 nerf. Our regular auto attack was not nerfed more then indicated

Do you bother to read the thread? Apart from the QZ nerf there is a stacking effect due to the reduced crit and bleed. If you spec your Ranger to grant various damage boons during a crit, that will go down. So overall the effect is huge.

Fyi, I’m generally not refering to the 10% likelihood boons on crit but 50%+ likelihood which are available on some high level foods and through other methods.

this is absolutely ridiculous. rangers are kittened as it is……… an entire day of thousands of people pointing out this issue and there has been nothing done / said except one guy saying " orly? maybe ill look at it". A 0.04 second adjustment should NOT be noticable AT ALL. even less so when SB users activate quickness. get it together and either remove this adjustment, or make the PROPER 0.04 second fix, OR fix the typo on the patch notes to “ranger shortbow was the only good weapon, now it isn’t”.
what a garbage mistake. my ranger is no longer my main. cheers

It’s still only 2 arrows every minute you lost. So I guess two potential crits and 2 additional stacks of bleeds. That’s not really that much in terms of damage.

However QZ is pretty messed up and should be fixed.

Did they nerf our overall dmg and crit chance?

NinjaKnight.1340:

This is what happens when fixes are rushed and not tested. Could also be that the animation team didn’t consult much if at all with the team that actually works on the class balance.

It’s pretty evident that the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. That’s the only logical explanation as to how warrior has been basically unchanged since beta 2 while every other class is taking it to the chin.

Just compare the ranger longbow with warrior rifle. It’s like they took a class from NCSoft Korea in how to balance pvp.

Kildari.2480:

It’s still only 2 arrows every minute you lost. So I guess two potential crits and 2 additional stacks of bleeds. That’s not really that much in terms of damage.

However QZ is pretty messed up and should be fixed.

Did they nerf our overall dmg and crit chance?

You are assuming your reduction in normal firing rate is corrrect, I have doubts about that.

Even so you asked for the math proof, There is proof that it is more than 0.04, due to the crit stacking even if your numbers are corrrect. There is also reduction in crit triggered healing boons which isn’t being discussed.

I’m not able to play and test it out atm. But before I came on the forum and found out about the nerf, yesterday after the patch I was surprised to die at an event which i should have survived easily.

Aridia.3042:

NinjaKnight.1340:

This is what happens when fixes are rushed and not tested. Could also be that the animation team didn’t consult much if at all with the team that actually works on the class balance.

It’s pretty evident that the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. That’s the only logical explanation as to how warrior has been basically unchanged since beta 2 while every other class is taking it to the chin.

Just compare the ranger longbow with warrior rifle. It’s like they took a class from NCSoft Korea in how to balance pvp.

Just stop it! Throwing lies around won’t help. Neither will bashing the warrior. The warrior was heavily nerfed BWE1-3 and during some stress tests (and then some). Besides the point but I thought it felt balanced already during BWE2, I was playing thief back then. Now stop this QQ about warriors, it’s getting old. Concentrate on the ranger instead!

Kildari.2480:

It’s still only 2 arrows every minute you lost. So I guess two potential crits and 2 additional stacks of bleeds. That’s not really that much in terms of damage.

However QZ is pretty messed up and should be fixed.

Did they nerf our overall dmg and crit chance?

You keep asking for it, so here it is: Your math is way off.

It was 133 a minute before, now it is 118, that is a drop of 15, not a drop of 2. That is a straight up 9% drop in damage right there. When you include fewer crits, fewer bleeds, fewer shots in QZ and ZS, we are talking a 25% to 30% drop in overall DPS damage to the most popular Ranger build due to an “animation fix”. That is completely unacceptable!

If there was an animation glitch, and this was actually needed, then it should have been accompanied by an increase in damage from 134 to 148 and an increase in bleed from 3s to 3.3s. Otherwise, it is a nerf.

As a ranger since day one i played guild wars 2….

I am lvl 80 right now and i will not lie, i feel the change right after i login to shoot 5 arrows i know the change already without even reading the notes…

We got GS, SB, LS, Axe, Torch, sword.

Greatsword yea nice going is not even doing much damage and try going 1v1 with warrior with that…. we are wearing paper cloth for fk sake…..

Sword, Fk yea the weapon that can kill you for 100% sure if you want to die get this kitten baby it kills you pretty good…

LS, dont even talk about it……

Torch, why is that even in the game O.O you bring Torch to war or some thing!?

Axe, balance as it is, i am currently loving it more then my SB dont get me wrong i used Long bow from lvl 1 to 50 cause i trusted it and now i play SB till 80 from 50 and NOW i use Axe and horn for the most part now XD stupid really….

SB, all i can say… alll my HATE<

Rachel if you are correct please find a video ANY video that shows more then 16 arrows during the course of a QZ. If you can find it then I’ll definitely hop on that bankwagon and support the cause.

I can’t find it. At all.

An update please, Jon?

Don’t know what was wrong with animation. I liked it, felt like bad mf pulling arrows out in movies.

When did I ever say there were more than 16 per QZ? You were saying there was only a loss of 2 arrows every 60 seconds. The old speed was 0.45 per arrow 60/0.45 = 133, the new speed seems to be 0.51 60/0.51 = 118. That a loss of 15 arrows per minute. QZ went from 16 to 12, a 25% drop. Bleed stacks went from 10 to 7, a 30% drop. The latter is a major blow for anyone spec’d for high condition damage, which most SB Rangers are, so that 30% loss on damage gets multiplied. Then the loss of arrows also affects critical damage too. The end result is a 25-30% loss of DPS depending on build.

Kildari.2480:

Rachel if you are correct please find a video ANY video that shows more then 16 arrows during the course of a QZ. If you can find it then I’ll definitely hop on that bankwagon and support the cause.

I can’t find it. At all.

You are using a VERY stupid measurement with 4 seconds here. you might get 16 arrows during 4 seconds but how close to finishing the 17th arrow are you ?
During the course of 1 minute as much as .1 adds up you know

Wow..moved to the ranger forum means its a fat chance in hell this will get responded to now.

faytte.1057:

Wow..moved to the ranger forum means its a fat chance in hell this will get responded to now.

Havent gotten any response all day, i even asked on thier twitter and the response was, and i quote. "Your best bet is to check our ranger forum: http://ow.ly/eiWV5 . There’s plenty of talk there, and the devs read it. ~RB2 "

How many days without a response and now this thread is moved to the Ranger forums?

This is getting stupid ArenaNet! How long are we going to have to wait for you guys to give us an HONEST answer? A week? a month? come on, treat your players better than this!