Guild Wars 2

Ok, we all know spirits need a little help, so lets consolidate a suggestion thread about it here with all the ideas you guys have.

My ideas:

Idea #1: Changes “Vigorous Spirits” (100% more spirit hp) into a new trait called “Spirits Within”.

“Spirits Within:” The ranger maintains a passive, but weaker, version of each spirit buff permanently. It would not fade when spirits die or get summoned. 10% chance to trigger the normal effects of any equipped spirits. This is overridden by the active spirit buffs when deployed. Spirits also have 100% more hp. This 10% chance is affected by “Spiritual Knowledge”, giving a 25% change to trigger.

This change would give the ranger more reason to use spirits because they would now always receive some small benefit from them, it would also still help the spirits survive longer. Basically I added a passive onto each Spirit via improving and renaming the Vigorous Spirits trait.

Idea #2. Spirits now have a 30 second cooldown and 50% more base hp.

Essentially I’m still expecting spirits to die horribly with this idea, but it would give them a longer up time and a shorter downtime, while still leaving them killable and counterable.

Idea #3: Spirits now take 90 seconds to recharge, however spirits are unable to be harmed.

This gives the spirits a second downtime between buffs but completely removes the need to worry about them dying. The Vigorous spirits trait could safely be changed to something else, Nature’s Vengence would just loose the “on death” component.

I’d prefer if upon death the spirit AoE explodes and gives some sort of field for friendly players to use, along with damage/buff/condition to nearby enemies/allies (depending on the spirit)

Sun Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for fire damage and inflicts burn. Burn Field.
Frost Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for frost damage and inflicts chill. Chill Field.
Stone Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for earth damage and inflicts cripple and bleed. Dunno what kind of field we could do for this one if any.
Storm Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for lightning damage and inflicts vulnerability and daze. Lightning Field
Spirit of Nature - Explosion heals allies nearby (dependent on Ranger’s Healing Power) and gives Vigor and Regen to allies. Water Field

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’d prefer if upon death the spirit AoE explodes and gives some sort of field for friendly players to use, along with damage/buff/condition to nearby enemies/allies (depending on the spirit)

Sun Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for fire damage and inflicts burn. Burn Field.
Frost Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for frost damage and inflicts chill. Chill Field.
Stone Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for earth damage and inflicts cripple and bleed. Dunno what kind of field we could do for this one if any.
Storm Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for lightning damage and inflicts vulnerability and daze. Lightning Field
Spirit of Nature - Explosion heals allies nearby (dependent on Ranger’s Healing Power) and gives Vigor and Regen to allies. Water Field

There is a trait that already (kinda) does this, making a spirit activate its ability on death.

Honestly I was completely shocked when I found out spirits had health (or can be killed), they’re spirits, non-terrestrial beings that should be immune to damage. Seeing that spirits are a ranger’s only support option, they really need a major overhaul, either buffing their abilities to actually being significant, or making them immune to damage (or just AOE).

Too bad their abilities really suck right now jwaz. I don’t see the point in even using them due to how crappy the abilities are.

GW1 spirits weren’t immune to damage and were significantly easier to kill than the GW2 spirits, however GW1 spirits WERE kittenING USEFUL due to their range and how drastic their change on the battle field was.

If GW2 spirits were even a fraction of how good GW1 spirits were I’d be happy with how easy they are to kill.

@Ryu, that’d be awesome and would make them less useless, Natures Vengeance could 1) increase Radius of the field an explosion and 2) increase duration of the field instead of what it does now.

PS: Spirits actives currently suck and should just be redone.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Too bad their abilities really suck right now jwaz. I don’t see the point in even using them due to how crappy the abilities are.

I realize they ‘re horrible abilities lol, that’s why I said they need to buff them.

I find that they are comparable to signets only signets are worth taking. Spirits are immobile unless spec’ed and they die real easy even when spec’ed for double hp. For what? A passive effect that works on the whole party and not just you, provided you all stay within range. Then there is an active effect which is offensive for most of them and with such a short range that they have to be close enough to get taken out by the enemy to actually hit the enemy.

If they couldn’t be targeted and couldn’t take damage (even if you had to spec into it), they would provide the ranger something that they could bring to the table in a group setting.

These are the ideas I have come up with. They are not meant to be taken as a package more like a series of possibilities.

1. Add “Secondary” Stat bonuses as a passive to the spirits buffs. Here is what I came up with.

Stone – Malice – Condition Damage
Fire – Compassion – Healing
Ice – Expertise – Condition Duration
Wind – Prowess – Critical Damage
Nature – Concentration – Boon Duration
Note: I decided to put Fire and +Healing together far a couple reasons. I was torn between using the Elementalist setup for these Stats and this setup. I do really like the idea of Fire being in this way. It keeps the Benefits from directly affecting the proc chances that are attached. Either way the setup ends up I think it would be a positive thing.

2. Spirit Base Stats Increased – This is not an uncommon thing people have been requesting higher Toughness and Vitality for spirits. Whether it is based on your the players stats or just a generic one stat for everyone it is a necessity. I do not know that it would be good for spirits to invulnerable it would make them overpowered I believe.

3. Better Trait choices for speccing into Spirits. Currently The Following Traits are available:
Nature Magic:
IV – Vigorous Spirits – Spirits have twice as much health.
VII – Nature’s Vengeance – Activated skill of spirits last twice as
long and are triggered when spirit is killed.
VII – Spiritual Knowledge – Spirit bonuses have 15% better chance
of providing benefits.
XI – Spirits Unbound – Spirits can move and follow you.
Now this is all nothing new but the major problem I have with this that all four of these traits fall in the same line. This is not something we see in other classes. Therefore I am not fond of the idea that you cannot somehow arrange having all of these. Even if it was cost ineffective for some specs putting one of them into a different tree makes the most sense sense. That is not saying the traits themselves could not use a little touch up but I feel that finding a better synergy for them would create more possibilities.

4. Add a secondary Benefit that has a proc on hit giving each spirit an offensive and defensive chance. Whatever the internal cool down is could be shared or just a small one added to prevent this being overpowered. Here is what I think would work well:
Stone – The Obvious it a chance to bleed, I really like the idea of applying
vulnerability as well though. I think both are good possibilities.
Fire – Clear a condition – I again really like the “Cleansing Flames” theory.
Ice – This is the hardest one. The obvious answer is Grant Regen on hit
but that seems like it could be easily overpowered. I think a better
option would be chance on hit to Heal for a small amount. This
amount would not be fixed but would not get great benefits from
healing power.
Wind – Evasion for 1 sec/Evade next attack
Nature – Nature does not currently have a chance to but I feel a chance
to root on hit would be nice or a chance to poison.
Note: This could be something that is in a trait. After writing it up it felt like a good trait idea.

5. Spirit Activated Abilities should create Combo Fields.
This is a simple one. I think it is very obvious how this would work and it would not create any sort of overpowering issues.

I am a firm believer in a couple things, spirits should always provide passive effects and be used in a role of support, they should never directly attack enemies. Spirits should never be invincible. They can have a small window of invulnerability when initially summoned but should not remain that way.

Those are the functional changes I thought would be cool. As a side note though, I like the way that spirits look but, adding some diversity to them would be nice. I feel that making them better represent the elements that they are drawn from would be nice. If moving spirits left footprints even that would be better than what we have now.

One and ONLY spirit fix, spirits can not be harmed. Having spirits die is just stupid, and dying as easily as they do now is straight kittenation. They have actives with a cast time and only provide passive support. WHY SHOULD THEY BE ABLE TO DIE? Do warrior banners die? Do shouts die? Do consecration fields die? So on and so forth.

Make Ranger spirits immune to all damage. Change “Vigorous Spirits” trait to something alone the lines of “Spirit cool downs and active ability cool downs are reduced by 20%”, change all non-elite spirit cool downs to 90 seconds. Fixed.

Anything else simply won’t do. Spirits will continue to be nothing but useless as long as people can simply wave them away with AoE.

Kiran.2705:

One and ONLY spirit fix, spirits can not be harmed. Having spirits die is just stupid, and dying as easily as they do now is straight kittenation. They have actives with a cast time and only provide passive support. WHY SHOULD THEY BE ABLE TO DIE? Do warrior banners die? Do shouts die? Do consecration fields die? So on and so forth.

Make Ranger spirits immune to all damage. Change “Vigorous Spirits” trait to something alone the lines of “Spirit cool downs and active ability cool downs are reduced by 20%”, change all non-elite spirit cool downs to 90 seconds. Fixed.

Anything else simply won’t do. Spirits will continue to be nothing but useless as long as people can simply wave them away with AoE.

Yeah that is one of my suggestions. On the other hand spirits can be useful with correct placement even if they can be killed. They just either need to be more robust, have shorter cooldowns, give additional benefits, or all of the above.

Personally I think my first suggestion is the best fix. It gives decent group buffage and a bit of an all around signet effect for the ranger if things don’t work out as planned. Balances the risk/reward quite a bit without making the pets crazy or unable to be countered.

Invulnerable pets would honestly get used in some pretty inventively powerful ways I’d imagine so it’d have to be very carefully done.

Unkillable spirits wouldn’t be broken. Not even close. They’d just be usable in large group settings, which is where they SHOULD shine. Spirits affect everyone in range. Sadly, everyone in range is getting pelted by AoE. Spirits get hit by one arrow cart volley and bye bye. That’s unacceptable. Making it two arrow cart volleys is equally unacceptable. Adding more HP would only help if it was a massive increase, given that their current base HP is pathetically low. Unkillable spirits actually gives them a chance to do their job.

It wouldn’t be broken because spirits are a supporting skill slot. Their actives are slow and obvious, making them easily avoidable. The only reliable portion would be the buffs, and I don’t see a ranger with a few extra boons being massively hard to kill. If things like shouts, consecration, banners, veils, time warps, and what not are all 100% reliable, spirits should be too.

Kiran.2705:

Unkillable spirits wouldn’t be broken. Not even close. They’d just be usable in large group settings, which is where they SHOULD shine. Spirits affect everyone in range. Sadly, everyone in range is getting pelted by AoE. Spirits get hit by one arrow cart volley and bye bye. That’s unacceptable. Making it two arrow cart volleys is equally unacceptable. Adding more HP would only help if it was a massive increase, given that their current base HP is pathetically low. Unkillable spirits actually gives them a chance to do their job.

It wouldn’t be broken because spirits are a supporting skill slot. Their actives are slow and obvious, making them easily avoidable. The only reliable portion would be the buffs, and I don’t see a ranger with a few extra boons being massively hard to kill. If things like shouts, consecration, banners, veils, time warps, and what not are all 100% reliable, spirits should be too.

You can theory craft all you want, but you can’t say that one way or another. Fact is that spirits being invuln would be a very big change that would need to be carefully looked at. That makes them autofollowing buffs as good as or better than banners that also have fairly good active skills when you don’t have to worry about them dying.

I support a change like this, but it would have to be looked at carefully and well tested.

The banner makes a great comparison with regards to pointing out just how lacking spirits are. Banners provide their benefit to the nearby part, just like spirits, but can be carried along from the start. Rangers have to spec into their spirits coming along. Not only that, but it demands a full 30 pts into nature magic just to do it.

Also the banner is its own weapon and so it has its own skills when picked up.

So I agree with Kiran, they should simply be a visual representation of a passive/active skill.

Ralathar.7236:

You can theory craft all you want, but you can’t say that one way or another. Fact is that spirits being invuln would be a very big change that would need to be carefully looked at. That makes them autofollowing buffs as good as or better than banners that also have fairly good active skills when you don’t have to worry about them dying.

I support a change like this, but it would have to be looked at carefully and well tested.

There’s no theory crafting about it. You’ll just continue the long standing trend of mediocrity if you do anything but make spirits unkillable. Anything else will simply result in them being murdered at the start of every battle. This game is packed with AoE. I can’t even expect my tank pet to survive more than five seconds in a fight. What makes you think spirits will? There’s no way around it if you want spirits to be viable.

Kiran.2705:

Ralathar.7236:

You can theory craft all you want, but you can’t say that one way or another. Fact is that spirits being invuln would be a very big change that would need to be carefully looked at. That makes them autofollowing buffs as good as or better than banners that also have fairly good active skills when you don’t have to worry about them dying.

I support a change like this, but it would have to be looked at carefully and well tested.

There’s no theory crafting about it. You’ll just continue the long standing trend of mediocrity if you do anything but make spirits unkillable. Anything else will simply result in them being murdered at the start of every battle. This game is packed with AoE. I can’t even expect my tank pet to survive more than five seconds in a fight. What makes you think spirits will? There’s no way around it if you want spirits to be viable.

Because apparently you missed the suggestion…

I’d prefer if upon death the spirit AoE explodes and gives some sort of field for friendly players to use, along with damage/buff/condition to nearby enemies/allies (depending on the spirit)

Sun Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for fire damage and inflicts burn. Burn Field.
Frost Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for frost damage and inflicts chill. Chill Field.
Stone Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for earth damage and inflicts cripple and bleed. Dunno what kind of field we could do for this one if any.
Storm Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for lightning damage and inflicts vulnerability and daze. Lightning Field
Spirit of Nature - Explosion heals allies nearby (dependent on Ranger’s Healing Power) and gives Vigor and Regen to allies. Water Field

RyuDragnier.9476:

Because apparently you missed the suggestion…

I’d prefer if upon death the spirit AoE explodes and gives some sort of field for friendly players to use, along with damage/buff/condition to nearby enemies/allies (depending on the spirit)

Sun Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for fire damage and inflicts burn. Burn Field.
Frost Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for frost damage and inflicts chill. Chill Field.
Stone Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for earth damage and inflicts cripple and bleed. Dunno what kind of field we could do for this one if any.
Storm Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for lightning damage and inflicts vulnerability and daze. Lightning Field
Spirit of Nature - Explosion heals allies nearby (dependent on Ranger’s Healing Power) and gives Vigor and Regen to allies. Water Field

Suggest what? Something that’s already in game? There’s already a talent that activates spirits upon death, BUT THAT DOESN’T FIX THE PROBLEM. The problem is spirits dying to begin with. The most appealing part about them has always been the support aspect, the chance to proc boons, which is quite a high chance if talented appropriately. Dying at the start of a fight and dumping all the actives isn’t a supporting role. It’s a suicide bomber, and that only works if the spirits die in the enemy’s face, which is unlikely. We already have the kitten thing and it doesn’t seem to be saving spirits, so this suggestion is quite clearly bad.

Kiran.2705:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Because apparently you missed the suggestion…

I’d prefer if upon death the spirit AoE explodes and gives some sort of field for friendly players to use, along with damage/buff/condition to nearby enemies/allies (depending on the spirit)

Sun Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for fire damage and inflicts burn. Burn Field.
Frost Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for frost damage and inflicts chill. Chill Field.
Stone Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for earth damage and inflicts cripple and bleed. Dunno what kind of field we could do for this one if any.
Storm Spirit - Explosion hits enemies nearby for lightning damage and inflicts vulnerability and daze. Lightning Field
Spirit of Nature - Explosion heals allies nearby (dependent on Ranger’s Healing Power) and gives Vigor and Regen to allies. Water Field

Suggest what? Something that’s already in game? There’s already a talent that activates spirits upon death, BUT THAT DOESN’T FIX THE PROBLEM. The problem is spirits dying to begin with. The most appealing part about them has always been the support aspect, the chance to proc boons, which is quite a high chance if talented appropriately. Dying at the start of a fight and dumping all the actives isn’t a supporting role. It’s a suicide bomber, and that only works if the spirits die in the enemy’s face, which is unlikely. We already have the kitten thing and it doesn’t seem to be saving spirits, so this suggestion is quite clearly bad.

What are you doing to kill all your spirits at the start of a fight? I don’t think I could do that unless I tried…

As for what Ryu suggested, it’d give you access to fields and a field based effect AFTER THE SPIRIT DIED, that’s -more- support, atm nature vengeance just makes your spirit activate its nearly worthless active when it dies, what Ryu suggested would not only be useful for detaunting the enemies from killing the spirits but would also give a lot of group support regardless of if the spirit lives or dies.

PROTIP: stagger your spirits and use them when you want/need the effect instead of turning yourself into a mobile AoE magnet, or -don’t- take spirits unbound and place your spirits scattered around the battle field.

Kiran.2705:

Ralathar.7236:

You can theory craft all you want, but you can’t say that one way or another. Fact is that spirits being invuln would be a very big change that would need to be carefully looked at. That makes them autofollowing buffs as good as or better than banners that also have fairly good active skills when you don’t have to worry about them dying.

I support a change like this, but it would have to be looked at carefully and well tested.

There’s no theory crafting about it. You’ll just continue the long standing trend of mediocrity if you do anything but make spirits unkillable. Anything else will simply result in them being murdered at the start of every battle. This game is packed with AoE. I can’t even expect my tank pet to survive more than five seconds in a fight. What makes you think spirits will? There’s no way around it if you want spirits to be viable.

You mean giving them a passive effect on the ranger even when they are down and reduced cooldowns wouldn’t make them viable? Even though that essentially makes them into signets with group buff actives AND possible active skills?

Also this is a thread for suggestions, not a thread for someone to tell everyone else “how it is”. Please refrain from making comments as if they are fact when they are in fact merely opinions based on anecdotal evidence at best. From a very narrow view of things at that.

I appreciate your suggestion, even though I suggested it first in the OP you apparently didn’t read, but even still.

Not gonna lie if I could equip my spirits to gain a “whisp” (non active) that gives a small boost to stats and weaker spirit buff to myself and pet and could activate it to disable that self passive and make a spirit (like now) that gives a strengthened AoE boost and could be active for a ground targeted field (maybe make this “shred” the spirit unless traited) I’d be a happy camper.

PS: the field would only provide support Not damage, damage is what trap are for!