Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
Yeah, it’s PvE, and Predator’s Onslaught isn’t gonna outshine Remorseless with the stupid amount of fury re-application you’re gonna have in a dungeon run.
I tried both variations when the patch went live. As long as the fury is provided, PO isn’t the obvious choice it used to be. Unless you still wanna use the longbow for whatever reason.
I ran both Remorseless and PO when the patch went live as well. In parties without constant Fury re-application, PO outshines Remorseless.
Indeed, if the length of the fight prolongs all the initial fury the ranger has available at the start of a fight when Strength of the Pack is up you will start to notice the difference.
But at that point we wouldn’t be talking about an optimized party anymore.
Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
Yeah, it’s PvE, and you seem to be living in the pre-specialization age if you think Predator’s Onslaught “outshines” Remorseless with the stupid amount of fury re-application you’re gonna have in a dungeon run.
The build in that video relies almost entirely on RaO (and to a lesser extent on warrior dropping their elite banner), with it on cooldown the fury only applies on pet swap, weapon swap and once during the gsword rotation from its trait. That’s only three +25% crits. Any fury from the party (mainly ele and now guardian with the elite shout) can’t compete with the RaO reapplication and is not something you can just use for your own damage boost easily. Plus eles probably still want to play staff, which means only 3 fury blasts at the start of the fight just during the might stacking phase, and those won’t help since you’re not actually fighting anything then. I know the CD on RaO is really short now, but any skill with a CD over 30 seconds dictating the main damage modifier in a build isn’t something I’d play over permanent 10%.
EDIT:
I guess if I really wanted to tryhard, I’d start with gsword + sword/axe and remorseless while RaO is available, then for the next fight if RaO is still on CD swap traits to PO and gsword to lbow and so on. But frankly I’d get bored of that pretty fast.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
Yeah, it’s PvE, and Predator’s Onslaught isn’t gonna outshine Remorseless with the stupid amount of fury re-application you’re gonna have in a dungeon run.
I tried both variations when the patch went live. As long as the fury is provided, PO isn’t the obvious choice it used to be. Unless you still wanna use the longbow for whatever reason.
You seem to be forgetting the quickness that allows you to hit 3 times in 0,9 seconds in sword mode will hit much more often with the +10% modifier than the 25% that will consume a single hit.
In almost an ideal 10 second fight, you’ll get around 10 stacks of fury? That is almost 30 attacks in this time period during which you have that Quickness just by yourself. Also keep in mind it doesn’t stack and will overwrite each other so you won’t get that much Fury even with the easy access because the fury is not going in such a stable manner – but everyone blows their stuff at the beginning and less of that further.
If the fight goes longer than 10 seconds – you are going to have no further easy Fury access and the Remorseless proc goes down even more. Where Predator’s Onslaught still does it’s job to full potential.
Also, you are basically quoting a guy who prefers Sic ’Em to Quickening Zephyr for PvE content as well as Regeneration/Swiftness trait over Might for your pet (Especially with Sic ’Em)
“Do not believe everything you see on the internet.”
~Abraham Lincoln.
“Do not believe everything you see on the internet.”
~Abraham Lincoln.
I’m not bascially quoting anyone, you’re just assuming I do. I’m simply refering to a guide from a member of a guild that doesn’t do anything else than running dungeons and crunching dps numbers. That’s the sole reason I even referred to that link. I thought DnT was well enough known for what they’re doing without me having to point that out.
I ran and tried both PO and Remorseless (heck, I even whispered you in-game asking what you thought of it) when the patch went live, this video was uploaded today. I still run QZ over Sic’em, obviously, and the swiftness/regen trait is there to reduce the cooldown of Strenght of the Pack (you already knew that, don’t try and make a moo point out of it).
The choice between Remorseless and PO is far more situational than to just simply state that one “outshines” the other (we haven’t even touched upon trash mobs where the GS build is better). And as far as “bascially quoting someone”, the guy in the video never even concidered PO. From my understanding he didn’t even do the build crafting, he’s simply responsible for making the guides.
Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
Yeah, it’s PvE, and you seem to be living in the pre-specialization age if you think Predator’s Onslaught “outshines” Remorseless with the stupid amount of fury re-application you’re gonna have in a dungeon run.
The build in that video relies almost entirely on RaO (and to a lesser extent on warrior dropping their elite banner), with it on cooldown the fury only applies on pet swap, weapon swap and once during the gsword rotation from its trait. That’s only three +25% crits. Any fury from the party (mainly ele and now guardian with the elite shout) can’t compete with the RaO reapplication and is not something you can just use for your own damage boost easily. Plus eles probably still want to play staff, which means only 3 fury blasts at the start of the fight just during the might stacking phase, and those won’t help since you’re not actually fighting anything then. I know the CD on RaO is really short now, but any skill with a CD over 30 seconds dictating the main damage modifier in a build isn’t something I’d play over permanent 10%.
EDIT:
I guess if I really wanted to tryhard, I’d start with gsword + sword/axe and remorseless while RaO is available, then for the next fight if RaO is still on CD swap traits to PO and gsword to lbow and so on. But frankly I’d get bored of that pretty fast.
Fury procs on pet swapping, on weapon swapping, and with 2h training, on GS attacks.
The ranger has plenty of ways to refresh fury by themselves.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
Sword/axe over greatsword, plus I don’t really agree with all the traits you took, altho that isn’t such a big deal as the weapon choice.
Sword/Axe over longbow*
There is no point running the longbow anymore when you have remorseless spam and three mauls in one swap rotation with quickdraw.
This thread is about a PvE build. Remorseless is outshined by 10% while cripple trait (was it predator’s onslaught, I forget trait names often). Having bow is kinda needed for the aoe cripple, plus it’s ok to quickdraw 2 rapid fires as well.
Yeah, it’s PvE, and Predator’s Onslaught isn’t gonna outshine Remorseless with the stupid amount of fury re-application you’re gonna have in a dungeon run.
I tried both variations when the patch went live. As long as the fury is provided, PO isn’t the obvious choice it used to be. Unless you still wanna use the longbow for whatever reason.
You seem to be forgetting the quickness that allows you to hit 3 times in 0,9 seconds in sword mode will hit much more often with the +10% modifier than the 25% that will consume a single hit.
In almost an ideal 10 second fight, you’ll get around 10 stacks of fury? That is almost 30 attacks in this time period during which you have that Quickness just by yourself. Also keep in mind it doesn’t stack and will overwrite each other so you won’t get that much Fury even with the easy access because the fury is not going in such a stable manner – but everyone blows their stuff at the beginning and less of that further.
If the fight goes longer than 10 seconds – you are going to have no further easy Fury access and the Remorseless proc goes down even more. Where Predator’s Onslaught still does it’s job to full potential.
Also, you are basically quoting a guy who prefers Sic ’Em to Quickening Zephyr for PvE content as well as Regeneration/Swiftness trait over Might for your pet (Especially with Sic ’Em)
“Do not believe everything you see on the internet.”
~Abraham Lincoln.
You’re already getting 3 seconds of quickness whenever you swap pets. The shout trait isn’t taken for the swiftness/regen bonus, but for the 20% CD reduction on shouts. (protip: Strength of the Pack is a shout). MH sword auto already stacks might on your pet.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
It was a build from someone else in DnT that Brazil made into a guide, but it really is obvious that the only thing going for it is RaO (not ever gonna call that Strength of the pack, too much history in the name Rampage as One, starting from GW1). And I agree with Tragic, even then it depends on your attack speed and RaO fury reapplication, which is once every 3 seconds or so, and a lot of attacks get wasted, especially under quickness.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
Fury procs on pet swapping, on weapon swapping, and with 2h training, on GS attacks.
The ranger has plenty of ways to refresh fury by themselves.
That’s exactly what I said in my post, and if you add those up it equals 3 enhanced crits in 10 seconds (the gsword trait has a 10 s icd so you can only get it once during the time you spend swapped into GS). The only other fury in the build is RaO, which applies fury every 3 seconds. And the more quickness you add into the mix, the worse it becomes for remorseless and better for predator’s. Don’t forget it’s a stack duration boon now, so with a single guardian in the party a ranger can get 11 seconds of quickness just by activating QZ and 14 if he swaps the pet. You’d need RaO and the warrior banner and probably an ele using lightning hammer on a fire field during those 14 seconds to have enough fury reapplications to even try and compete with the attack speed.
EDIT:
Actually that’s probably the only time Remorseless could catch up with PO in quickness situations, those three conditions together.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
Now, if they made frost spirit pulse fury instead of might with the grandmaster trait that might be a contender, but it would make it OP for SPvP so that won’t happen because “esports”. Remorseless/quickdraw is already pretty strong there even with the 3 surefire fury applications + RaO.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
Now, if they made frost spirit pulse fury instead of might with the grandmaster trait that might be a contender, but it would make it OP for SPvP so that won’t happen because “esports”. Remorseless/quickdraw is already pretty strong there even with the 3 surefire fury applications + RaO.
There’s also the 5 vulnerability stacks you apply every time you refresh an opening strike. Plus another 5 from maul. It’s more consistent uptime than rapid fire, unless you constantly swap back to your LB every time rapid fire is off cooldown, but then you lose sword DPS.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
I’m not disagreeing with you on the subject of quickness, but Remorseless vs PO is far too situational to simply say that the one outshines the other, which is what my argument eventually boiled down to. The opening of CoE as a quick example, remorseless GS is far superior to PO LB when grouping all the trash up from the corridor and melting it down together with the boss. AOE maul with the modifier from Remorseless and GS trait + the aoe maul vuln is huge in those kinds of situations. And then there is the numerous boss fights which are actually short enough to the point where the difference doesn’t even matter.
Tragic isn’t wrong when he brings up the quickness argument, but he is actually quoting a comment where I specifically say that it isn’t always an obvious choice or that there is only one go-to-trait. At that point I had already pointed out that the Remorseless build is dependent on fury re-application and that you notice the difference between those two traits in longer fights when the fury is missing, in favor of PO.
Now, if they made frost spirit pulse fury instead of might with the grandmaster trait that might be a contender, but it would make it OP for SPvP so that won’t happen because “esports”. Remorseless/quickdraw is already pretty strong there even with the 3 surefire fury applications + RaO.
There’s also the 5 vulnerability stacks you apply every time you refresh an opening strike. Plus another 5 from maul. It’s more consistent uptime than rapid fire, unless you constantly swap back to your LB every time rapid fire is off cooldown, but then you lose sword DPS.
As far as swapping back to LB goes, Tragic has had a thread a few days ago where he said it would be worth it for quickdraw’d rapid fire and the vuln you get out of it, supposedly only worse on trash since LB doesn’t cleave and worth swapping in single target fights. But trash die fast enough that you won’t get the swap cooldown back in time anyway most of the time. Frankly, having quickdraw for the double path of scars and the plentiful quickness uptime that is currently possible is just good enough to make sword even bigger than it already was, regardless of second weapon.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
I’m not disagreeing with you on the subject of quickness, but Remorseless vs PO is far too situational so simply say that the one outshines the other, which is what my argument eventually boiled down to.
I agree on that, “outhshine” was probably too strong of a word, altho it has to be a kitten quick “burst the trash” type of situation. And as I said in an earlier post probably swapping traits and weapons between fights would be the most optimal, but it’s just busy work worth it for record runs maybe, if those ever include rangers (do they?).
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
~ Remorseless indeed is useful.
Make no mistaking that. In a party where no boss stays alive for more than a couple of seconds – this build provides better early burst than PO and full easy perma 25 Vulnerability stacks that is a part of Meta that people would want.
~ Predator’s Onslaught
- this is the trait that works much better in longer fights. Especially on those that last more than 10 seconds. In 10 seconds you’ll get close to 32 hits from attacks which makes Remorseless’s single hit boost vague. If you count 3 from Elite, +1 from Weapon Swap, +1 from pet swap – you gain 5 fury. Which is 5 attacks of +25% damage. That can’t compare to that of a 30 hits of +10%. Once “Strength of the Pack” wears off, your Remorseless act in DPS is gone. Only reliable 125% Maul Crit on weapon swap stays.
I made some tests and Longbow beats the 1st rotation of GS thanks to it’s Barrage. If the fight goes longer than 11 seconds (2nd weapon swap) where Longbow suffers from vacuum space where Barrage is still on cooldown – it’s weaker. Greatsword provides better overall DPS in longer fights. And it also provides better DPS in 2+ targets at any circumstance.
_________________________________________
I believe now all my and everyone’s else comments make more sense.
I agree on that, “outhshine” was probably too strong of a word, altho it has to be a kitten quick “burst the trash” type of situation. And as I said in an earlier post probably swapping traits and weapons between fights would be the most optimal, but it’s just busy work worth it for record runs maybe, if those ever include rangers (do they?).
I don’t pay attention to records anymore, I know rangers have been a part of a couple of previous records. I don’t think the changes will cause much difference in the general “optimal comp”.
A little sidenote though, I still bump into several eles still running dagger/focus (honestly ain’t surprised, the staff rotation is boring) when pug’ing – handy if you casually wanna run the remorseless variation.
