Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer:
Now, I’m not asking for a nerf to Revenant; I just wanted something to compare to. The point was: It feels as if nearly all of the Rangers skills and weapons are completely outclassed by all the other professions, not to mention traits. To put it metaphorically, ranger hit low damage granting no boons and applying few conditions while every other class seems to apply 1-2 conditions per skill, remove 1-2 conditions per skill, hit incredibly high, cleaving damage and they continue to get buffed and addressed by ANET. How do you feel?

Ranger vs Revenant

Sword 1 Ranger:
Slash
249 damage, 3 targets, 130 range
Kick
249 damage, 1 target, cripple 2 seconds
Pounce
284 damage, 3 targets, 5 secondsmight to pet.

Total
782 damage with rooting animation and short cripple on single target.

Sword 1 Revenant:
Preparation Thrust
593 damage, 6 seconds vulnerability
Brutal Blade
395 damage x 2, 6 seconds vulnerability x2
Rift Slash
711 damage + 237 damage

Total
2,331 damage (unable to determine from video, but there seems to be more hits than listed in the skills), no rooting animation, sustained 16 stacks vunerability

Skill #1
Winner Revenant – Revenant’s auto attack is 3.27x more powerful than the rangers, sustains 16 stacks of vulnerability, and allows the Revenant to move.

Sword 2 Ranger:
Hornet Sting – 8s CD
284 damage, .5s evade, 400 distance evaded
Monarch’s Leap
391 damage, 3s cripple, leap finisher, 400 distance leap

Sword 2 Revenant:
Precision Strike – 4s CD
672 damage, 1s chill

Skill #2
Winner Revenant – Revenant’s attack is still more powerful than rangers, chill is a much more powerful crowd control and due to low cool-down, more accessible. Ranger’s sword 2 is mainly used as a movement skill, but due to wonky mechanics is unreliable at best. If instead of automatic roll back, you were given a green directional arrow mechanic for both segments, I would find ranger the winner.

Sword 3 Ranger:
Serpent’s Strike – 15s CD
284 damage, 6s poison x 2, .75s evade.

Sword 3 Revenant:
Unrelenting Assault – 10s CD
435 damage, 1 might per hit, 7 targets

Skill #3
Winner Revenant – A clear victory. A double-damage skill that hits an additional 6 targets and grants might per hit. In addition to this Revenants are going to evade most of the incoming damage as they teleport around confusing enemies. I imagine that it will be almost impossible to attack Revenants as they do this, because a moving ranger must attack enemies within a 180 degree arch in front of them.

(Since Rangers do not have an off-hand sword, I will use an axe for comparison sake).
Axe 4 Ranger:
Path of Scars – 15s CD
426 damage, 450 pull, pierce

Sword 4 Revenant:
Duelist’s Preparation – 15s CD
2 second block
Shackling Wave
586 damage, 2s immobilize, 3 targets

Skill #4
Winner Revenant – Shackling Wave and Path of Scars are pretty evenly matched. One provides a pull and the other an immobilize. Although, Shackling wave will be much easier to land because the attack doesn’t have to be lined up for maximum effectiveness. However, because Revenants will also have access to a versatile 2s block, this skill is leagues ahead of Path of Scars.

Axe 5 Ranger:
Whirling Defense – 25s CD
1,068 damage (12 hits), 4s retaliation, 5s duration, 180 radius, 90 reflect radius, 1 vunerability (12 hits) 10s.

Sword 5 Revenant:
Grasping Shadow – 20s CD
593 damage, 600 pull

Skill #5
Winner Revenant – Whirling defense has it’s uses in wvw, but with it’s long CD, short duration, and reliance on hitting all 12 hits for it’s maximum effectiveness, it falls short. The majority of the time you’re using this skill at range and the damage and vulnerability is lost for a short-duration reflect. When using this skill at close-range, it has to hit all 12 times to be even remotely effective. Revenant’s Grasping Shadow, however can see uses in pretty much all game types. At half the damage of Whirling defense it only has to hit once compared to twice, making it much more powerful. It also synergies well with other skills in the Revenant’s tool kit unlike the Ranger’s.

While I agree that Revenant sword appears stronger than ranger (and probably is) did you consider that this variation might be attributed to gearing, or are you assuming Zerk for both sets?

The second criticism is in regards to our most trusted, and hated ally. Our pets. The ranger as a class, and most pet classes in games (e.g. Hunters in WoW, etc.) will never deal equal damage to another class without their pet. This is a balancing point for our class. Hell when I played WoW in BC Beastmastery was the “meta” build for hunters and pets equated to ~60% of the class’s damage. Now you can argue that pets need a rework (they do) or they need to do more damage (not necessarily the case, just smarter AI, imo) but that is an entirely different argument.

Personally I believe that yes, on equal footing WITHOUT pets revenants SHOULD do more damage with their power weapon vs. our power weapon. While I’m not saying you are wrong and rangers are in a great spot (though we are arguably in the best spot we have been in years) your comparison is not entirely a valid one without considering our other source of damage.

Dlaxer.1428:

While I agree that Revenant sword appears stronger than ranger (and probably is) did you consider that this variation might be attributed to gearing, or are you assuming Zerk for both sets?

The second criticism is in regards to our most trusted, and hated ally. Our pets. The ranger as a class, and most pet classes in games (e.g. Hunters in WoW, etc.) will never deal equal damage to another class without their pet. This is a balancing point for our class. Hell when I played WoW in BC Beastmastery was the “meta” build for hunters and pets equated to ~60% of the class’s damage. Now you can argue that pets need a rework (they do) or they need to do more damage (not necessarily the case, just smarter AI, imo) but that is an entirely different argument.

Personally I believe that yes, on equal footing WITHOUT pets revenants SHOULD do more damage with their power weapon vs. our power weapon. While I’m not saying you are wrong and rangers are in a great spot (though we are arguably in the best spot we have been in years) your comparison is not entirely a valid one without considering our other source of damage.

I used default 1,000 power in pvp, no equipment bonus. Yes, we could probably guess they’re using zerker gear, but the point of the post was to bring up that nearly every skill/trait/utility is outclassed massively by nearly all the other professions.

Dlaxer.1428:

While I agree that Revenant sword appears stronger than ranger (and probably is) did you consider that this variation might be attributed to gearing, or are you assuming Zerk for both sets?

The second criticism is in regards to our most trusted, and hated ally. Our pets. The ranger as a class, and most pet classes in games (e.g. Hunters in WoW, etc.) will never deal equal damage to another class without their pet. This is a balancing point for our class. Hell when I played WoW in BC Beastmastery was the “meta” build for hunters and pets equated to ~60% of the class’s damage. Now you can argue that pets need a rework (they do) or they need to do more damage (not necessarily the case, just smarter AI, imo) but that is an entirely different argument.

Personally I believe that yes, on equal footing WITHOUT pets revenants SHOULD do more damage with their power weapon vs. our power weapon. While I’m not saying you are wrong and rangers are in a great spot (though we are arguably in the best spot we have been in years) your comparison is not entirely a valid one without considering our other source of damage.

Ignoring the fact that the Ranger Sword has the dubious honor of being the only auto-attack that can kill its user. Ignoring the usability concerns of skill #2. Yes, let’s look at pets. Let’s take a cat. Say, a lynx, to be specific.

The lynx, at level 80 and specced into beast mastery, will deal about 850 damage per hit at a rate of about 1 hit per 0.9 seconds. It’ll have about a 40% chance to crit (60% if you manage full Fury uptime) and deals about 1600 damage on a critical hit. This gives it a DPS of about 1300.

The ranger sword, assuming berserker gear, will deal about 600 damage base per hit, and hits at a rate of 1/2, 1/4, 3/4. This gives it a DPS at 50% crit chance, 1800 DPS.

This BARELY matches the DPS of a sword revenant, without taking into account the fact that the Revenant can move. Without taking into account that the pet can and often will die. Without taking into account any revenant Devastation traits, which will all increase its DPS considerably. Without taking into account that some people want a pet that isn’t going to die as soon as an enemy breathes on it. Without taking into account that Revenants cleave, while pets and rangers don’t. Without taking into account that a moving enemy cripplesany attempts for a pet to deal damage.

Ignoring all that? Yes. Rangers with a pet and Revenants have almost equal auto-attacks.

Exactly what Dlaxer said… the revenant had a zerk amulet. From a basic point of view, the damage weren’t this impressive at all. And at the same time rangers damage are balanced on the fact that the ranger have a pet that do damage with him.

Beside :
Revenant skill 3 : banned from dungeon because it will break boss controle or send the revenant somewhere not needed with a clear risk of wild aggro. WvW the revenant will hate to be the one that all ambiant creature will chase. PvP… might be usable. Clear issue : absolutely no controle on this skill effect.

Revenant skill 5 : again the troll skill that have 100% chance to generate hate from other allies. Whirlwind defense should win the fight in all honesty.

I think that instead of ranting because they have more damage on skill use (while not having a pet alongside of them) the rangers should be smiling at the fact that LB#4 won’t be the most hated skill In game and the ranger hate will soon be nothing in front of the Revenant hate. That’s because they have the potential to be king… of trolls.

Harnel.6810:

Dlaxer.1428:

While I agree that Revenant sword appears stronger than ranger (and probably is) did you consider that this variation might be attributed to gearing, or are you assuming Zerk for both sets?

The second criticism is in regards to our most trusted, and hated ally. Our pets. The ranger as a class, and most pet classes in games (e.g. Hunters in WoW, etc.) will never deal equal damage to another class without their pet. This is a balancing point for our class. Hell when I played WoW in BC Beastmastery was the “meta” build for hunters and pets equated to ~60% of the class’s damage. Now you can argue that pets need a rework (they do) or they need to do more damage (not necessarily the case, just smarter AI, imo) but that is an entirely different argument.

Personally I believe that yes, on equal footing WITHOUT pets revenants SHOULD do more damage with their power weapon vs. our power weapon. While I’m not saying you are wrong and rangers are in a great spot (though we are arguably in the best spot we have been in years) your comparison is not entirely a valid one without considering our other source of damage.

Ignoring the fact that the Ranger Sword has the dubious honor of being the only auto-attack that can kill its user. Ignoring the usability concerns of skill #2. Yes, let’s look at pets. Let’s take a cat. Say, a lynx, to be specific.

The lynx, at level 80 and specced into beast mastery, will deal about 850 damage per hit at a rate of about 1 hit per 0.9 seconds. It’ll have about a 40% chance to crit (60% if you manage full Fury uptime) and deals about 1600 damage on a critical hit. This gives it a DPS of about 1300.

The ranger sword, assuming berserker gear, will deal about 600 damage base per hit, and hits at a rate of 1/2, 1/4, 3/4. This gives it a DPS at 50% crit chance, 1800 DPS.

This BARELY matches the DPS of a sword revenant, without taking into account the fact that the Revenant can move. Without taking into account that the pet can and often will die. Without taking into account any revenant Devastation traits, which will all increase its DPS considerably. Without taking into account that some people want a pet that isn’t going to die as soon as an enemy breathes on it. Without taking into account that Revenants cleave, while pets and rangers don’t. Without taking into account that a moving enemy cripplesany attempts for a pet to deal damage.

Ignoring all that? Yes. Rangers with a pet and Revenants have almost equal auto-attacks.

Agreed. Maxing nearly everything to Ranger has and hoping all goes well, and your pet isn’t dead 2 seconds into combat. They could last a little longer, sadly, this isn’t the case.

The ability to move is more a defensive thing not offensive. I mean the reason you move is defensively ranger root does not affect offensive movement (unless you want to switch target and fail to select the new target) does not affect defensive movement one you learn how to.

Ranger only lose in dps when it comes to self buffing but sheer flat damage we are among the top.

When all the active, passive and semi passive defences come into play that is when rangers start losing the battle.

To say we need more dps when we are equal because of what is really a defensive issue is just beyond belief.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

To say we need more dps when we are equal because of what is really a defensive issue is just beyond belief.

I just did an examination of this, like, three posts ago.

You are wrong. Very, very wrong. We don’t have the same level of attack damage any other class does and lack the buffing capability they do, for either ourselves or allies.

Don’t spread misinformation, please.

Who cares about sword…. They have better LR. Low on energy, remova all movement-impeding condis and give endurance(not the sucky vigor) I want this on my ranger.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

The ability to move is more a defensive thing not offensive. I mean the reason you move is defensively ranger root does not affect offensive movement (unless you want to which target and fail to select the new target) does not affect defensive movement one you learn how to.

What?

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Ranger only lose in dps when it comes to self buffing but sheer flat damage we are among the top.

Yes, in wvw, while standing on a wall, and protected from any incomming damage, we’re among the top dps. As soon as they’re on our level and it’s actual combat, all is lost with a dps build.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

When all the active, passive and semi passive defences come into play that is when rangers start losing the battle.

I can agree with that.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

To say we need more dps when we are equal because of what is really a defensive issue is just beyond belief.

What? I didn’t say the damage needed to be higher. The post was a comparison about how nearly every skill is leagues behind every other profession. Rangers don’t have the highest raw damage. Ranger have next to no condition removal without traiting entirely into a line, while nearly every profession has utilities/weapon skills/weapon swap/attunement swap that cleanse nearly all conditions. The list goes on.

Harnel.6810:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

To say we need more dps when we are equal because of what is really a defensive issue is just beyond belief.

I just did an examination of this, like, three posts ago.

You are wrong. Very, very wrong. We don’t have the same level of attack damage any other class does and lack the buffing capability they do, for either ourselves or allies.

Don’t spread misinformation, please.

+1. When other professions come into ranger forums they scream that everything is fine, leave rangers the way they are, and the actual rangers are overshadowed and dismissed.

When a warrior and ele can get 25 stack of might in seconds then yes this is true. This is also a group buff and why they are at the heart of most meta. So which part are you saying is misinformation.

United Chaos points that out rather well.

Movement is not defensive. It’s versatility, and versatility is power. The capability to actually do things and not be ludicrously predictable is power. Your DPS is 0 when you’re dead, and repositioning is often the only way to avoid that.

Every single other class can self buff to one degree or another – my necromancer can easily maintain 8 stacks of might with her auto-attack and nothing else because of the traits she has. if I added in the other ways she has to gain might, she can maintain over 15 with complete ease, and that’s only going to go way, way up once Reaper becomes available. self buffing.

A warrior, though? A warrior with a Greatsword can get a stack of might every time he hits if he builds well, while having the same base damage as the ranger. and, better yet, doing it while also providing that same stack of might to all his allies, and giving all his allies a flat +150 power. Better mobility as well, despite that supposedly being the ranger ‘thing’.

This isn’t a defensive issue, not by a long shot. With my ranger, in berserk gear, a rapid fire will deal about 5k-6k damage. An elementalist can deal that with a single hit during a meteor shower, which will be constantly pelting the field with hits like that for a fairly long duration. on top of this, that same elementalist can then swap attunements and heal all his allies while providing regeneration and clearing their conditions.

This is not, and never has been, a defensive issue. This is all about the fact that we simply cannot keep up in any way; defensive, offensive, mobility, or support.

Please let’s not be yet another class that complains about the revenant (we already have necros, thieves and even a warrior doing that).

That’s not to say that we don’t need fixing because god knows we do. But let’s not drag the poor revenant into this.

Wow talk about misrepresenting facts holy cow.

1.) You compared a base power to zerker power weapon to prove your “3x more damage” point which is beyond silly… The whole AA comparison is just bad.

2.) Hornets leap is about a million times better than Sword 2 on revenant. You really want to swap your .5 sec evade, mobility, leap finisher for a 1 second chill that hits only as hard as your auto attack and has a 450 range? Really? I’ll take that trade lol…

3.) The 3 abilities aren’t even the same, but poison is a great utility and you have yet another low CD evade. Revenant said doesn’t evade and isn’t controllable, so will likely be ruined by AOE fields. Both are okay in their own ways, however.

Then you purposefully chose your worst offhand to compare it to the offhand, axe notably being bad since forever.

Not to mention the fact that sword CDs have the potential to be reduced…

I’m all for being sympathetic but this is the goofiest comparison ever.

We have move totally off topic and I had a long response but i made it shorter.
You can’t roll buffed in and compare it to unbuffed. You can’t roll tactical use and compare it sheer dps. You can’t compare a class by trait line on a one for one bases.

Compare the class as a whole. Like condi clear: you look at all possible sources (skill, runes, sigil, traits etc..).

Solution are also helpful, like for supporting group make resounding timber give aoe superspeed and regen. It is op maybe would it fix everything wrong witht he ranger support wise nope. But we suck we suck so much threads don’t help.

Defensively the only bark skin was great but not accessible(to a lot of power builds) now we have access to it but sucks but its also a minor so guess we cant complain.

Doesn’t matter how good you make a trait people will say you are forced into x line because of whatever reason. Imagine going in the defense line to get condi clear or damage mitigation. Mindblowing

Um, axe is our best offhand. It has been for a while now. At least it is the best for pve purposes.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter
https://youtu.be/x-joFbUe4qY

I have to agree path of scare is great ( great thief killer) and whirling defense is great reflecting arrows and grenades.

I consider ranger sword to be one of the best in game

It’s funny how we know melee damage tends to be better dps (taking warrior and thieve as great examples) and yet so many of use have an aversion to melee.

ronpierce.2760:

Wow talk about misrepresenting facts holy cow.

1.) You compared a base power to zerker power weapon to prove your “3x more damage” point which is beyond silly… The whole AA comparison is just bad.

2.) Hornets leap is about a million times better than Sword 2 on revenant. You really want to swap your .5 sec evade, mobility, leap finisher for a 1 second chill that hits only as hard as your auto attack and has a 450 range? Really? I’ll take that trade lol…

3.) The 3 abilities aren’t even the same, but poison is a great utility and you have yet another low CD evade. Revenant said doesn’t evade and isn’t controllable, so will likely be ruined by AOE fields. Both are okay in their own ways, however.

Then you purposefully chose your worst offhand to compare it to the offhand, axe notably being bad since forever.

Not to mention the fact that sword CDs have the potential to be reduced…

I’m all for being sympathetic but this is the goofiest comparison ever.

1. Even if the Ranger went full power it wouldn’t scale to the extent of the Revenant’s current.
2. Yes, yes I would.
3. I agree to disagree.
4. Axe has the Ranger’s most powerful weapon skill and a semi-useful reflect. So, no. It’s one of the best of-hands available to Rangers.
5. Really? So does every other profession.

Dadnir.5038:

Exactly what Dlaxer said… the revenant had a zerk amulet. From a basic point of view, the damage weren’t this impressive at all. And at the same time rangers damage are balanced on the fact that the ranger have a pet that do damage with him.

I don’t think the rev was using a zerk amulet, it was probably Marauder (I cannot check atm) because its health was 21,522. Their base health is the same as ours. So in full Zerk gear in WvW and PvE, they will do quite a bit more dmg.

I would not want to lose #2 or #3 off our sword, they are great skills.

UnitedChaos.8364:

ronpierce.2760:

Wow talk about misrepresenting facts holy cow.

1.) You compared a base power to zerker power weapon to prove your “3x more damage” point which is beyond silly… The whole AA comparison is just bad.

2.) Hornets leap is about a million times better than Sword 2 on revenant. You really want to swap your .5 sec evade, mobility, leap finisher for a 1 second chill that hits only as hard as your auto attack and has a 450 range? Really? I’ll take that trade lol…

3.) The 3 abilities aren’t even the same, but poison is a great utility and you have yet another low CD evade. Revenant said doesn’t evade and isn’t controllable, so will likely be ruined by AOE fields. Both are okay in their own ways, however.

Then you purposefully chose your worst offhand to compare it to the offhand, axe notably being bad since forever.

Not to mention the fact that sword CDs have the potential to be reduced…

I’m all for being sympathetic but this is the goofiest comparison ever.

1. Even if the Ranger went full power it wouldn’t scale to the extent of the Revenant’s current.
2. Yes, yes I would.
3. I agree to disagree.
4. Axe has the Ranger’s most powerful weapon skill and a semi-useful reflect. So, no. It’s one of the best of-hands available to Rangers.
5. Really? So does every other profession.

1.) It doesn’t scale as high because it is a utility weapon (it’s not GS) and you have a pet. This has been discussed, if you can’t handle compensation for it, it might not be your class. That’s just sort of how it is… It does factor into your DPS.
2.) please do make that trade. You can have a 1 second chill and give the evade/mobility/leap to Revenant, I’d be entirely grateful.
3.) Okay.
4.) uh it does okay power damage, but it’s not reliable for PvP. But if you’re happy with it for those reasons, I don’t see how you prefer Sword offhand better than it.
5.) Revenant can’t reduce their cooldowns, and have a double resource cost (energy and cooldowns).

You have to have a better understanding of the class before you start making some really silly claims.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Harnel.6810:

Dlaxer.1428:

While I agree that Revenant sword appears stronger than ranger (and probably is) did you consider that this variation might be attributed to gearing, or are you assuming Zerk for both sets?

The second criticism is in regards to our most trusted, and hated ally. Our pets. The ranger as a class, and most pet classes in games (e.g. Hunters in WoW, etc.) will never deal equal damage to another class without their pet. This is a balancing point for our class. Hell when I played WoW in BC Beastmastery was the “meta” build for hunters and pets equated to ~60% of the class’s damage. Now you can argue that pets need a rework (they do) or they need to do more damage (not necessarily the case, just smarter AI, imo) but that is an entirely different argument.

Personally I believe that yes, on equal footing WITHOUT pets revenants SHOULD do more damage with their power weapon vs. our power weapon. While I’m not saying you are wrong and rangers are in a great spot (though we are arguably in the best spot we have been in years) your comparison is not entirely a valid one without considering our other source of damage.

Ignoring the fact that the Ranger Sword has the dubious honor of being the only auto-attack that can kill its user. Ignoring the usability concerns of skill #2. Yes, let’s look at pets. Let’s take a cat. Say, a lynx, to be specific.

The lynx, at level 80 and specced into beast mastery, will deal about 850 damage per hit at a rate of about 1 hit per 0.9 seconds. It’ll have about a 40% chance to crit (60% if you manage full Fury uptime) and deals about 1600 damage on a critical hit. This gives it a DPS of about 1300.

The ranger sword, assuming berserker gear, will deal about 600 damage base per hit, and hits at a rate of 1/2, 1/4, 3/4. This gives it a DPS at 50% crit chance, 1800 DPS.

This BARELY matches the DPS of a sword revenant, without taking into account the fact that the Revenant can move. Without taking into account that the pet can and often will die. Without taking into account any revenant Devastation traits, which will all increase its DPS considerably. Without taking into account that some people want a pet that isn’t going to die as soon as an enemy breathes on it. Without taking into account that Revenants cleave, while pets and rangers don’t. Without taking into account that a moving enemy cripplesany attempts for a pet to deal damage.

Ignoring all that? Yes. Rangers with a pet and Revenants have almost equal auto-attacks.

Agreed. Maxing nearly everything to Ranger has and hoping all goes well, and your pet isn’t dead 2 seconds into combat. They could last a little longer, sadly, this isn’t the case.

Well they do… if you manage it, it won’t die.

In 1v1 matches, my pet never dies, I always switch, tell him to get back, send him again, use F2, use utility/heal to save him, or even use the stone signet to keep him alive, because he deals a kittenload of damage. I win a lot of duels, even 2v1 sometimes. I could win more, if I were a skilled player. The wolf’s F2 fear saved me more than one time when I was downed, for instance.

Our pet is currently, to me, with my power oriented build, the best DPS outcome we have. It can hit up to 4-5k, and I saw a 6k (don’t know how to reach that tho) !

Remember that the 1 of the sword gives might to our pet, which increases his dps, so that increases OUR dps.

Do NEVER, EVER, forget that our pet is a part of us, it’s an extention of our character, and act as a part of our DPS, utility, and even group usefulness sometimes.

There’s a lot of good synergies you can have between it, you, and your group. For instance, crowd control, buff, blast finishers, leap finisher, condi etc…

If you compare 2 weapons from different classes, include the pet in the formula, and the F1~4 skills that may synergise with it, and the utilities, or it will be biased.

i wonder if it is even possible to compare the tooltips because we dont know the amulett in stream and your stats
so in my eyes the whole comparison is absolutely useless
u could also compare a knight skilled ranger GS with a zerker warrior GS
u can, but it makes no sense because u cant compare base dmg
wait until next beta when u can see the tooltips with known stats

The main mistake people make with claiming the pet as justification for lowered coefficients/base numbers on our weapons IS THAT PETS DO NO SCALE WITH ANYTHING.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FOOD/POTIONS/SHARPENING STONES.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM RUNES OR SIGILS.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM % DAMAGE/CRIT CHANCE MODIFIER TRAITS UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM THE EXTRA STATS OF ASCENDED GEAR THAT OTHER CLASSES FULLY BENEFIT FROM.

PETS DO NOT REACH SAME FEROCITY CRIT % DAMAGE BONUS LEVELS AS A FULLY GEARED BERSERKER PLAYER, SO A % OF THE RANGER’S DAMAGE IS LESS BOOSTED BY FEROCITY COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES.

PETS DO NOT CLEAVE OUTSIDE DRAKES.

PETS ARE MADE OF TOILET PAPER UNLESS IT’S A DRAKE OR BEAR.

PETS OTHER THAN JAGUAR DO INFERIOR COMBINED DPS WITH RANGER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.

+1 to Zenith. was just thinking how nice it’d be if my raven or drake had my runes and sigils.

+1 Zenith. On the other hand, pets will continue to do damage (if they can keep up with the opponent, which is another subject) while we dodge and evade damage. Pets can continue to deal damage while we res someone. And the list goes on.
It’s not simply a matter of black and white when part of our class is a pet.

The ranger pet is suppose to be treated as part of the ranger, yet in actuality for the most part it is treated like a summoned rock dog. Necros and mesmers have pets of sort they can even be buffed by traits.

The little control we have over our pets really doesn’t justify the damage lose and lack of scaling.

Zenith.7301:

The main mistake people make with claiming the pet as justification for lowered coefficients/base numbers on our weapons IS THAT PETS DO NO SCALE WITH ANYTHING.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FOOD/POTIONS/SHARPENING STONES.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM RUNES OR SIGILS.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM % DAMAGE/CRIT CHANCE MODIFIER TRAITS UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM THE EXTRA STATS OF ASCENDED GEAR THAT OTHER CLASSES FULLY BENEFIT FROM.

PETS DO NOT REACH SAME FEROCITY CRIT % DAMAGE BONUS LEVELS AS A FULLY GEARED BERSERKER PLAYER, SO A % OF THE RANGER’S DAMAGE IS LESS BOOSTED BY FEROCITY COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES.

PETS DO NOT CLEAVE OUTSIDE DRAKES.

PETS ARE MADE OF TOILET PAPER UNLESS IT’S A DRAKE OR BEAR.

PETS OTHER THAN JAGUAR DO INFERIOR COMBINED DPS WITH RANGER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.

Pretty much this.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Zenith.7301:

The main mistake people make with claiming the pet as justification for lowered coefficients/base numbers on our weapons IS THAT PETS DO NO SCALE WITH ANYTHING.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FOOD/POTIONS/SHARPENING STONES.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM RUNES OR SIGILS.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM % DAMAGE/CRIT CHANCE MODIFIER TRAITS UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED.

PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM THE EXTRA STATS OF ASCENDED GEAR THAT OTHER CLASSES FULLY BENEFIT FROM.

PETS DO NOT REACH SAME FEROCITY CRIT % DAMAGE BONUS LEVELS AS A FULLY GEARED BERSERKER PLAYER, SO A % OF THE RANGER’S DAMAGE IS LESS BOOSTED BY FEROCITY COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES.

PETS DO NOT CLEAVE OUTSIDE DRAKES.

PETS ARE MADE OF TOILET PAPER UNLESS IT’S A DRAKE OR BEAR.

PETS OTHER THAN JAGUAR DO INFERIOR COMBINED DPS WITH RANGER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.

Pretty much this.

Not “this”. The weapons, utility wise, are very different, the Ranger’s #2 is better than Revenant’s, #3 is just different but also much more practical to use. The only thing Revenant has on it is Damage. Don’t punish another class because Ranger’s design is cruddy with their pets. Their damage DOES need to factor into their pet, and sure, they should cleave. But that’s no fault of Revenant’s.

Also, I think many of you would be in for a rude awakening when you realize that pets balanced around ranger’s stats and multipliers would lead to a significant weaker base per. (aka, a nerf to bunker ranger builds etc)

ronpierce.2760:

Also, I think many of you would be in for a rude awakening when you realize that pets balanced around ranger’s stats and multipliers would lead to a significant weaker base per. (aka, a nerf to bunker ranger builds etc)

In what way?

All people want is for pets to receive all non-base stat bonuses we get get from gear and consumables in the same way all other classes get a 100% bonus from these.

A BM pet getting an increase in stats from settler’s gear will mean nothing as pets have no base condition damage, nor healing power, and most don’t even attack the pet so getting a bonus to armor would mean little anyway.

Substance E.4852:

ronpierce.2760:

Also, I think many of you would be in for a rude awakening when you realize that pets balanced around ranger’s stats and multipliers would lead to a significant weaker base per. (aka, a nerf to bunker ranger builds etc)

In what way?

All people want is for pets to receive all non-base stat bonuses we get get from gear and consumables in the same way all other classes get a 100% bonus from these.

A BM pet getting an increase in stats from settler’s gear will mean nothing as pets have no base condition damage, nor healing power, and most don’t even attack the pet so getting a bonus to armor would mean little anyway.

That’s my point. To balance buffing lets with stats and modifiers, they would nerf their base stats to compensate (not disputable, they would.). So where a berserker ranger may gain some damage, builds that don’t focus on damage would take a significant hit to their pet stats, leaving the more bunkery type Rangers doing pitiful damage.

Now, it probably SHOULD happen, regardless. Sure, let’s should actually take stats and bonuses, of course. But I still don’t think people consider the consequences of what they ask for. It wouldn’t be a direct bonus, there would be a re-balance involved.

Also, Ranger core mechanic woes, like I said, are of no design fault of Revenant’s, and this comparison is ridiculous and biased. In no world is Ranger sword #2 worse than Revenant’s. Sword 3 are both very unique and have different benefits and uses. Beyond that they clearly went out of their way to try to make themselves look bad by comparing Revenant sword to axe offhand, which is obviously not a fair comparison as Axe 5 has had practicality issues since conception and 4 has its uses when it doesn’t fail.

After reading this thread, one question comes to mind exactly how much pet uptime does anet balance the ranger with?

Bran.7425:

After reading this thread, one question comes to mind exactly how much pet uptime does anet balance the ranger with?

100% up time with the pet attacking 100% of the time the ranger is attacking and landing 100% of the hits.

It’s the reason Ranger+Pet=Other Classes instead of Ranger+Pet=More than other classes.

Basically Anet balances as though the pet were glued to our arm and never died as long as we’re alive.

If that is the case could ranger please get a designer that is in touch with reality.

Bran.7425:

After reading this thread, one question comes to mind exactly how much pet uptime does anet balance the ranger with?

This is the rough part. Probably pretty high. Anet has a tendency to balance around best case scenarios. Hence why the issues being discussed here in terms of damage are Ranger issues, not Revenant vs. Ranger issues. And the utility comparisons are just silly.

In no world can you convince me a low damage 450 range attack with a 1! Second chill is somehow better than an evade+ leap finisher, flexible mobility skill. I would so much rather have Ranger sword 2 OR 3 over the Revenant sword 2.

Revenant 3 honestly sounds like a self-hazard as it doesn’t evade and can’t be controlled and can’t be stow cancelled afaik.

Substance E.4852:

Bran.7425:

After reading this thread, one question comes to mind exactly how much pet uptime does anet balance the ranger with?

100% up time with the pet attacking 100% of the time the ranger is attacking and landing 100% of the hits.

It’s the reason Ranger+Pet=Other Classes instead of Ranger+Pet=More than other classes.

Basically Anet balances as though the pet were glued to our arm and never died as long as we’re alive.

Yup, this must be the case.

ronpierce.2760:

Substance E.4852:

ronpierce.2760:

Also, I think many of you would be in for a rude awakening when you realize that pets balanced around ranger’s stats and multipliers would lead to a significant weaker base per. (aka, a nerf to bunker ranger builds etc)

In what way?

All people want is for pets to receive all non-base stat bonuses we get get from gear and consumables in the same way all other classes get a 100% bonus from these.

A BM pet getting an increase in stats from settler’s gear will mean nothing as pets have no base condition damage, nor healing power, and most don’t even attack the pet so getting a bonus to armor would mean little anyway.

That’s my point. To balance buffing lets with stats and modifiers, they would nerf their base stats to compensate (not disputable, they would.). So where a berserker ranger may gain some damage, builds that don’t focus on damage would take a significant hit to their pet stats, leaving the more bunkery type Rangers doing pitiful damage.

Now, it probably SHOULD happen, regardless. Sure, let’s should actually take stats and bonuses, of course. But I still don’t think people consider the consequences of what they ask for. It wouldn’t be a direct bonus, there would be a re-balance involved.

Also, Ranger core mechanic woes, like I said, are of no design fault of Revenant’s, and this comparison is ridiculous and biased. In no world is Ranger sword #2 worse than Revenant’s. Sword 3 are both very unique and have different benefits and uses. Beyond that they clearly went out of their way to try to make themselves look bad by comparing Revenant sword to axe offhand, which is obviously not a fair comparison as Axe 5 has had practicality issues since conception and 4 has its uses when it doesn’t fail.

Bunker rangers, like engineers and elementalists, should rely for themselves with damage.

Saying pets shouldn’t scale with stats because this would nerf a build that’s only used for 1v1 duels/roaming and some niche spvp is dumb.

Fact is, bunker condi ranger is already an inferior spec to engineers and even necromancers and warriors and mesmers. It’s the one condi spec that doesn’t have good access to aoe/cleaving conditions such as grenades/bombs, and offers virtually nothing of value in teamfights ever since they gutted spirits.

**So fix the pets, remove the death penalty 50 sec timer and make it a baseline 20 sec pet switch timer. Make pets take reduced aoe/cleave damage and give them their own personal regeneration/heal so we don’t have to waste ours when we don’t need it just to keep them alive.

Remove animation locks from pet attacks so they can keep up with moving targets, give them reliable leaps that don’t fail on sidestepping targets.

Normalize pet damage so pets aren’t garbage if they’re not a drake/jaguar/bird (that is, raise the damage of all pets to around the level of jaguar, bear autoattacks seriously hit for less than a tick of burning, and moas are not far behind).Make all pets cleave with their autoattacks. Make ranged pets have a 1200 range and be able to shoot up from castle walls and down from them.

Make ranged pets not be dumb and walk into mid/melee range when fighting a target.

Allow us to tell a pet where to move and when to use key skills like its CC/heal abilities. Improve the F2 skills, they’re weak skills generally with long recharges that make for a weak mechanic.

Make Fortifying Bond baseline. Hell, any boon the ranger gets should be copied to the pet, OR if the pet scales with the stats of the master it should possess the current crit %, crit damage bonus, and power/condition damage modifiers the master has.

Take pets off the aggro table so developers stop fretting about rangers exploiting them in PvE with bosses, even though single classes like the ele can currently faceroll a boss just fine.

Fix pig steal to give the bundle to the master automatically like thief’s steal.

Change traits that transfer conditions/CC to pets, and simply make those traits remove those effects instead of screwing the pet when no other classes have stunbreak/condi clear traits that have negative side effects tied to them.**

This is a faulty comparison.

Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.

Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.

MattyP.6954:

This is a faulty comparison.

Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.

Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.

You are so hideously ignorant.

Ranger 1h sword outputs more DPS than the longbow. Please people, have the decency to look up the math posted in these forums already for a good while before making such obviously false claims as this one.

Longbow is not a pure damage weapon anymore than the 1h sword is. The longbow has a knockback, an aoe cripple, and stealth for stealth stomps or survival. In fact, camping your longbow is a safer route in most PvE formats over going into melee range with 1h sword, which is an inferior melee option compared to other classes’ melee options.

BURST=/= DPS

Zenith.7301:

MattyP.6954:

This is a faulty comparison.

Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.

Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.

You are so hideously ignorant.

Ranger 1h sword outputs more DPS than the longbow. Please people, have the decency to look up the math posted in these forums already for a good while before making such obviously false claims as this one.

Longbow is not a pure damage weapon anymore than the 1h sword is. The longbow has a knockback, an aoe cripple, and stealth for stealth stomps or survival. In fact, camping your longbow is a safer route in most PvE formats over going into melee range with 1h sword, which is an inferior melee option compared to other classes’ melee options.

BURST=/= DPS

Ok, does Revenant Main-Hand Sword provide any dodges or cripples? It seems to be almost entirely dps (with the exception of a chill and a blink).

Also, did you adjust for Longbow range?

MattyP.6954:

Ok, does Revenant Main-Hand Sword provide any dodges or cripples? It seems to be almost entirely dps (with the exception of a chill and a blink).

Also, did you adjust for Longbow range?

Revenant Main-Hand Sword provides a chill, extreme vulnerability stacking, and an invulnerability skill that stacks might, which is a good deal better than any other weapon in the game.

Your exception of “a chill and a blink” is two thirds of the weapon. Don’t be ignorant, particularly when including the entire main hand Ranger sword.

Harnel.6810:

MattyP.6954:

Ok, does Revenant Main-Hand Sword provide any dodges or cripples? It seems to be almost entirely dps (with the exception of a chill and a blink).

Also, did you adjust for Longbow range?

Revenant Main-Hand Sword provides a chill, extreme vulnerability stacking, and an invulnerability skill that stacks might, which is a good deal better than any other weapon in the game.

Your exception of “a chill and a blink” is two thirds of the weapon. Don’t be ignorant, particularly when including the entire main hand Ranger sword.

Sword 3 doesn’t have an invulnerability. It doesn’t have any added defense beyond the movement, which is uncontrollable which means AOE crush it.

Sword 2 does a… 1 second chill… So congrats.

MattyP.6954:

Zenith.7301:

MattyP.6954:

This is a faulty comparison.

Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.

Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.

You are so hideously ignorant.

Ranger 1h sword outputs more DPS than the longbow. Please people, have the decency to look up the math posted in these forums already for a good while before making such obviously false claims as this one.

Longbow is not a pure damage weapon anymore than the 1h sword is. The longbow has a knockback, an aoe cripple, and stealth for stealth stomps or survival. In fact, camping your longbow is a safer route in most PvE formats over going into melee range with 1h sword, which is an inferior melee option compared to other classes’ melee options.

BURST=/= DPS

Ok, does Revenant Main-Hand Sword provide any dodges or cripples? It seems to be almost entirely dps (with the exception of a chill and a blink).

Also, did you adjust for Longbow range?

The dodge tied into ranger 1h sword is undermined by the fact the sword’s autoattack delays dodge timings.

Don’t come to me with the whole turn off autoattacks. Even if it’s disabled, you are delaying your autoattack just to not be animation locked, which means you’ve got a DPS loss.

The dodge skill on the sword is also a DPS loss compared to the autoattack. In PvE, it’s basically worthless utility.

And what kind of stupid rationalization is adjusting for longbow range? Range is not an advantage in PvE! Range also has the disadvantage in pvp of not benefitting from boon stacking as most of the stacking happens in the melee train.

I think that the ranger kick should not root, and I also think that the leap should be able to be cancelled, or it should be a dodge. Ranger sword is definitely the worse out of them all. All of the sword skills should have damage reworks too.

Zenith.7301:

Fact is, bunker condi ranger is already an inferior spec to engineers and even necromancers and warriors and mesmers. It’s the one condi spec that doesn’t have good access to aoe/cleaving conditions such as grenades/bombs, and offers virtually nothing of value in teamfights ever since they gutted spirits.

Yes, but trap rangers use sword too, and they specialize in aoe cleave damage, not to say that sword is anything more than an evade tool, I mean with sword/dagger you have 3 dodges, 1 leap, and 2 cripples.
Currently I say that engineer condi is the god build right now. With one pistol shot i lay down 5 conditions and if i keep going on they can’t condi cleanse everything away in time.

Timiok.1048:

Zenith.7301:

Fact is, bunker condi ranger is already an inferior spec to engineers and even necromancers and warriors and mesmers. It’s the one condi spec that doesn’t have good access to aoe/cleaving conditions such as grenades/bombs, and offers virtually nothing of value in teamfights ever since they gutted spirits.

Yes, but trap rangers use sword too, and they specialize in aoe cleave damage, not to say that sword is anything more than an evade tool, I mean with sword/dagger you have 3 dodges, 1 leap, and 2 cripples.
Currently I say that engineer condi is the god build right now. With one pistol shot i lay down 5 conditions and if i keep going on they can’t condi cleanse everything away in time.

Trap rangers are just crappier necro/engi with longer cd, point blank aoe marks/grenades.

They use sword because it’s not like ranger has options for weapons, almost all of them are pretty bad, and since ranger defenses are bad to begin with as their stunbreakers and condi clears are on ridiculously long cd’s, they rely on sword to outlast.

They also use sword due to the cripple since the stupid pet can’t hit anything moving at a normal rate.

And it’s news to no one that engineers do about every condition better than everybody else. They do confusion better than mesmers, bleeding and poison better than necromancers, and burning better than ele (only guardians do burning better than engi).

And the power of engi comes from the amount of coverage and condition frontloading they can do. They can spike confusion easily, as they can blleds and burning and have several of them up at the same time to prevent condi removal spam from hurting the engineer as it does the other condi specs.

And to boot the engi has better active defenses thanks to the shield and toolkit+elixir S, on top of the best aoe heal ingame (the healing turret is a longass water field, while they had the nerve to nerf healing spring’s duration, and the engineer can easily spam blast the water field).

More importantly the engineer does a lot more aoe condi than any other condi spec in the game, only remotely approached by epodemic necro but necro has longer cd’s to his condi application and it’s super easy to CC necros to death.