Guild Wars 2

Not to rant but i’ve attached my first game with a warrior in which i speced a “troll” build with full power and no defense…at all.

Not only does the warrior have better vitality stats than the ranger, he has huge burst with the rifle’s “3” skill/frency/elite signet. AND!!!! his he has a “sniper-like” skill called kill-shot which i did a 9.9k crit with…wth?

Furthermore, the auto-attack of the rifle applies bleed. ALL THE TIME. no specific position required. No need to flank the opponent.

My question is, if a supposed “melee” class can beat a “ranger” at his own game and have tanky stats…how is this even fair? (Not to mention, i was essentially laughing at how stupidly overpowered they are)

I get the whole “any profession can play any role” concept, but for one class to be great at everything and for one to be simply mediocre (if that) is..ugh…

P.S i only tried warrior because of the huge masses you see in lion’s arch.

First, ranger isnt the same as ranged class… For example, Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings was a ranger.

Second, yes the rifle is powerful, but you are only taking the weapon into account. The ranger has traits and skills availiable for ranged combat, while the warrior is pretty limited in that aspect.

Third, Anet is changing some of the ranger abilities, so who knows what will happen in the future.

Rifle warriors are beast. I dont get the term troll build when refering to a glass cannon. I have gotten 16k crits with kill shot before, and seen 30k crits in wvw on uplvled toons. Id give my leftie for my longbow to compress rapid fire into a kill shot like skill. Its hot seeing my warrior kneel on 1 knee and follow a thief in stealth with kill shot.

Well, for starters, the game is designed so that warriors aren’t just a “melee” class.
That said, it is kind of sad that rangers have the weakest ranged damage.

Thieves, warriors, etc. all do way more damage with ranged. The only actual advantage rangers have over the others is that they have(at least with traits) slightly more max range.

With thieves having the handy bouncing arrows and cluster bombs, and warriors having bleeds and huge burst and kill shots, it sure does make ranger abilities feel very mediocre.

Rangers are like a far-shooting BB gun, while the others are slightly less far-shooting shotguns(thief) or elephant guns(warriors).

Have you seen how much damage the Longbow’s 2 skill can do with a precision/crit damage build?

From the research ive seen, the ranger longbow rapid fire does about the same damage as auto-attacking with the short bow not including condition damage…

Aethersong.5189:

From the research ive seen, the ranger longbow rapid fire does about the same damage as auto-attacking with the short bow not including condition damage…

^ Fact.

/fifteencharacters

Aethersong.5189:

From the research ive seen, the ranger longbow rapid fire does about the same damage as auto-attacking with the short bow not including condition damage…

The rapid fire longbow does less damage than the auto shot on shortbow. That number is even more noticeable once it’s off cooldown again.

can’t compare dps in a vacuum, all utility must be taken into account.

rangers shouldn’t be dying to warriors unless running with no evades / cc breaks.

also, our pet is a ranged attack.

sbow + pet > rifle + adrenaline.

I have both, rifle does not have aoe, or 1500 range, but you don’t also have the stupid farther away means more damage crap.
With bolas, kick and rifle 5 I can pew pew and even if they close swap to hammer and still come out on top.

true power of ranged class

lets face it ranger is just for ppl who like to have animal companion all the time and dont pvp or wvw

untill ANet fix the class………….

@Aethersong.5189

Yep that is tested and proven. I run a glass cannon build and my rapid fire on squishies does maybe 1350 each hit, sometimes the occasional 1400. Shortbow crossfire spam as power crit does the same damage, and doesnt have a cd. Think of a rapid fire that lasts for 4 secs during QZ. It pretty much does almost twice the damage as rapid fire at about hte same speed when they fix the QZ bug.

@faeral.7120

Not true, you cant kill a warriors adren, you cant lower his dps by 50% by destroying one of his mechanics, a warrior has heavy armor, 3k more health and more burst. Sure my ranger can put out some damage if my arrows land and my ravens f2 hits, but my rifle warrior almosty never misses unelss obstruction bugged or they dodge, bullets move to fast, and I get full adren almost constantly. Not to mention my rifle butt is a point blank aoe knockback, volley is pretty much rapid fire in half the time, and kill shot follows stealthies. Warriors numbers also crunch together much better.

If they dont fix ranger to my liking Ill just roll a rifle warrior, no harm done. I love archers but Im not willing to be miserable any longer.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

If they dont fix ranger to my liking Ill just roll a rifle warrior, no harm done. I love archers but Im not willing to be miserable any longer.

I rolled a warrior with the intention of focusing on greatsword..

And then I tried the rifle. Oh. Your. God.

Having so much fun with it, even though my main is my ranger but I’m waiting on the patch to see if I can muster the will to go back to it.

Lol I know how you feel. I love archery and bows too much not to but if it doesnt pan out the way I am hoping Ill just go play what is fun. Rifle warrior is a blast too, and easy to lvl.

I Hope this will be fixed, and i Hope that they increase Rangers Dps about 50%

But anyway i dont think this will happen….. and i dont think that they will nerf Warrior.

So time to reroll …. to Warrior the real Ranged Class.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

@Aethersong.5189

Yep that is tested and proven. I run a glass cannon build and my rapid fire on squishies does maybe 1350 each hit, sometimes the occasional 1400. Shortbow crossfire spam as power crit does the same damage, and doesnt have a cd. Think of a rapid fire that lasts for 4 secs during QZ. It pretty much does almost twice the damage as rapid fire at about hte same speed when they fix the QZ bug.

Dante, I agree with what you say about rapid fire being pretty weak compared even to SB auto-attack. However, I just wondered if those numbers were from WvW or Spvp becasue my SB auto attack doesn’t do near that much damage. (If you are getting that much damage in spvp, could you share the build pls?)

No one cares what Anet considers a ranger to be lore wise. People rolled a ranger because its traditionally a bowmen type class that has a companion. But both bows and pets are so flawed right now in comparison to other ranged weapons for other class’s its not even funny.

They better have big fixs coming and increased damage to keep many competitive players in this class…. other wise it will just be even more warriors.

Anet will never nerf warrior burst, you can probably figure out why (class favorites anyone?)

@ 109% Crit dmg 2700 Attackpower 72% Crit ( Buffed ) and at 30/30/5/0/5

ur are able to do some nice Dps on Shortbow but its rly bad vs a Warrior

@ Ranged a Warri always Dps u out

Shortbow does about 1.2-1,5k on Squishy Targets
Longbow does about 3-5k on Squishy Targets and about 12-14k Rapidfire ( with all Buffs and Zephyr )

But its not enough to Kill someone rly fast.

Ur Pet ist always useless.

( Dps in WvW )

We have no Burst and u will do not the same Dmg with Shortbow in 2.5sec compared to Rapidfire with Longbow.
With Longbow and Rapidfire

In 2.5sec u can do about 12-14k

With Shortbow max

5 k Dmg in 2.5 Secs.

Rapidfire is not rly weak but compared to a Warrior ( with Rifle ) we suck^^

Kill shot kinda sucks in PVP anyway. Its so obvious, once you see the warrior kneel down, just wait ~ 1 second and dodge roll. There, his burst skill that would hit for ~8k damage just missed. The only way you can reliably hit with it is in very messy situations/ with CC

Namu.5712:

No one cares what Anet considers a ranger to be lore wise. People rolled a ranger because its traditionally a bowmen type class that has a companion. But both bows and pets are so flawed right now in comparison to other ranged weapons for other class’s its not even funny.

I just want to point out that ANET actually does consider ranger to be unparalleled at using the bow, contrary to what some forum posters may claim. Here is the Ranger description from the GW2 website (with picture of ranger with BOW in hand):

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

They do need to buff LB and GS damage. These are lackluster and limits the number of viable builds we can do. LB is just…I love the traited range, but the damage and rate of fire is terrible. I can doze off using it. Until they boost it considerably I’m sticking with the SB.

Yasha.5963:

Namu.5712:

No one cares what Anet considers a ranger to be lore wise. People rolled a ranger because its traditionally a bowmen type class that has a companion. But both bows and pets are so flawed right now in comparison to other ranged weapons for other class’s its not even funny.

I just want to point out that ANET actually does consider ranger to be unparalleled at using the bow, contrary to what some forum posters may claim. Here is the Ranger description from the GW2 website (with picture of ranger with BOW in hand):

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

Well thats sad then considering the state of things. Fingers crossed

i dont know what everyone is talking about. i never lose to warriors of any spec as a ranger. especially rifle warriors. i can’t understand how any ranger would lose to a warrior in a 1v1

i have a ranger as main, recently lvl’d up a warrior, i yet have to lose a single pvp vs a ranger,(Spvp/WvW) trolling them so hard is fun. But that’s maybe because i know it’ mechanics.

same as the post above

most of the time when i lose it is because my enemy gets help
i smell l2p issue

btw what exactly the SS i showing ?

What is with all these anti-Ranger posters?

I have at level 80, Ranger, Thief, Guardian, and Warrior, all four 80s in exotic gear.

The sad thing is, all of them, including the Guardian do more damage than my Ranger, and all three of them have better survivability, and the Guardian, and Warrior brings more utility to a group, then a Ranger. A Warrior, and Thief make for a better Ranger than does the Ranger doing as much as four times the damage at range.

The Ranger is good for one thing – bots.

So if you honestly think the Ranger is fine, play one to 80, make a youtube video of you doing good in all aspects of the game WvWvW, sPvP, Dungeons, and random PvE including boss fights, and I’ll make a youtube video of my other three 80s doing it not just better, but MUCH better.

@Apophis

I’ll wager you 100 gold that I can bring you Ranger down as a Warrior, and you won’t even get me below half health.

The “only” way you’ll get me to half health is spec for the Rangers 6 second immunity.

I’ll add to my above posts. Something people are not looking at, when considering a Warrior, and thier damage is the ability to attain 80% or higher critical hit chance, making the 33% Bleed Chance, and 33% Vulnerability chance sooooo much better. I can stack a high amount of both with the Rifle.

On top of that my build allows me to keep Regen, Fury, & (3) Might, on myself, and my group pretty much permanently with the Warrior, also adding a 10% increase to critical damage for the group.

Rangers are the only profession as far as I know with 12 sec damage immunity which is very powerful. I use that build and I am very satisfied. You need traited Signet of Stone and Protect Me with any bear and rampage as one so you get 12 sec damage immunity and 20 sec CC immunity. I use both longbox and shortbox and wolf for mass fear and knockdown/cripple.
@jkctmc.8754
If you think ranger can get you below 50% health with 6 sec immunity, how low will you go with 12 sec immunity?

@Balor

I was taking into account that 12 seconds, which removes one of your utlities, you NEED.

If you don’t have that, you’re dead before you hit me more than twice. Don’t forget the Warrior also has a 5 second immunity.

Balor.9103:

Rangers are the only profession as far as I know with 12 sec damage immunity which is very powerful. I use that build and I am very satisfied. You need traited Signet of Stone and Protect Me with any bear and rampage as one so you get 12 sec damage immunity and 20 sec CC immunity. I use both longbox and shortbox and wolf for mass fear and knockdown/cripple.
@jkctmc.8754
If you think ranger can get you below 50% health with 6 sec immunity, how low will you go with 12 sec immunity?

First off , real nice blowing 3cooldowns, two of which ave 120s CDs for 12s of invulnerability. Secondly,it’s not 12s immunity. Any DoTs that were stacked on you BEFORE activating the signet still hurt you. So you’ll still be burned/poisoned/bled to death. Third, as soon as you’re pet dies, and it will, Protect me is rendered useless. So unless you precast Troll Unguent to keep your pet alive, congratulations, you just wasted half your skillbar to stay alive, not even talking about damage ability, for about 12s.

@ Balor

There is nothing funner though on the Warrior than to Bull’s Charge + Frenzy + Hundred’s Blades, and killing someone before they get to stand up. I’ve hit for 16k in WvWvW with my last hit of Hundred’s Blades.

@ChillyChinaman.6057
Bear with more than 4k vitality will never die in less than 6 sec unless whole zerg is attacking you. Second, you don’t need to use all of this at once, you can activate one invurnability and if you kill enemy you don’t need to waste the second one or if you are sure you can take it down without second one. Third,brown bear has condition removal(F2), you also have healing spring to remove multiple conditions, since you are invurnable you can safely stand in healing spring and gain both regeneration and remove all conditions of course you first wait to lose enough health so you don’t waste your healing spring on just condition removal. Also with with 5 points in beastmastery you gain 2 sec of quickiness for nice damage during that immunity time and you can use all your skills to do nice damage, maybe it is not huge but still much better then 0 that will enemy deal to you.

@jkctmc.8754
This invurnability is most useful to break anykind of poweful burst damage other classes have like warrior and thief. You activate all of that and all of that is countered by just one invurnability. Any ranger must carefully deside when to use each of utility/elite skills especially ones with long cooldowns.

I am not saying this is uber/super build but I am very satisfied with it, I rarely die in WvW, PvE, Dungeons…have ability to rush into whole zerg and survive, safely destroy siege weapons while planty of ballistas, arrow carts and cannons are attacking me, also can easily revive allies while under heavy attack.
Maybe I should write another topic since this is maybe going little off topic now.

@Balor
First, I’ve seen other professions easily deal over 4k dmg that would one-shot a bear.
Second, fair point on the staggered activations. However, healing spring only pulses once every ~3?s. By that you can take a fair amount of condition damage if you have to wait for the full 3s.
Third, while I agree quickness is nice, I would personally use it for something more useful than dps, which would be token at best, such as reviving downed teammates or fast-casting long skills.

luchifer.6401:

First, ranger isnt the same as ranged class… For example, Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings was a ranger.

And Gimli was a Warrior, guess that means Warriors shouldn’t have good ranged weapons either.

@ChillyChinaman.6057
Bear has 4k vitality not 4k health. 4k vitality is like 40k health and also has Defy Pain skiill for 5 sec immunity.

Sorry missed the 4k VITALITY. However, I don’t think bears actually have 40k health. I’m pretty sure, no numbers to support this theory though, that health scaling works differently.

Like how a level 80 scholar, adventure, and soldier with the base 916 vitality have 10805, 15082, and 18372 health respectively. If I am wrong, then I’ll seriously consider giving bears a shot. I just happen to love my canines too much for their knockdowns.

Also, Defy Pain, while nice, is on a 45s CD and not activated by the player.

1 point in Vitality gives 10 points of health to every profession and I guess every NPC including Pet. Every profession has 916 vitality at lvl 80 which is 9160 health for every profession at level 80 but every profession has also specific bonus health. According to GuildWars2 Wiki(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health):
Guardian, Thief, Elementalist have base health = 1645 + 9160(vitality) = 10805
Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger have base health = 5922 + 9160(vitality) = 15082
Warrior, Necromancer have base health = 9212 + 9160(vitality) = 18372
According to that Bear should have at least 41220 health with 0 base health since it has 4122 vitality.
It would be nice if somebody from ANet can confirm this but anyway I know from testing that Bears can sustain huge damage.

Levetty.1279:

luchifer.6401:

First, ranger isnt the same as ranged class… For example, Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings was a ranger.

And Gimli was a Warrior, guess that means Warriors shouldn’t have good ranged weapons either.

Legolas was a warrior too, a soldier of the elves.

If the ranger matches the warrior in direct damage, especially burst damage, then that undermines the Warrior as a class; it would be like expecting Rangers to use kits, and use them just as well, as the Engineer, or match a Guardian’s ability to buff/protect allies. The warrior has been designed from the ground up to win in a simple 1v1 punchup. Does the ranger weaponry need buffing? I wouldn’t say no to doing more damage; expecting to meet/exceed the warrior’s is only setting yourself up for disappointment. After all, after BWE1, rangers being able to 1v1 warriors (while ignoring their pets) was one of the first things that got nerfed.
IIRC Beastmastery affects the toughness of the pet. Bears are especially tough because they can flat out ignore damage for 6 seconds with one skill, and other gives them regeneration. If you put points into beastmastery (which boosts your healing) take Signet of the Wild and the grandmaster trait Natural Healing (and the minor Compassion Training) bears become stupidly tough. Nothing short of being ganged up on and boss-attacks can phase them.

@Loki.4871
“If the ranger matches the warrior in direct damage, especially burst damage, then that undermines the Warrior as a class; "
Yeah that’s right logic only if Warrior doesn’t match ranger in ranged combat but Warriors deal more damage to ranger in ranged combat than rangers to warriors, that’s the biggest issue here. Everything would work fine if ranger can deal damage to warrior from range while warrior can only use melee weapons and needs to run into melee range and then deal more damage while in melee to compensate for damage received while running into melee. But in GW2 every class is both melee and ranged and if one class is better than you in both melee and ranged combat you are in big trouble so you need to do what I did and use 12 sec immunity to compensate for damage difference(warrior has 5 you have 12 so you get 7 sec of immunity more).
Also things would be very different if Pet can hit that wirrror 5-6 times for 1-2 k damage each instead of just running and never hitting him.
Anet doesn’t need to increase ranger’s damage or nurf warrior’s, they just need to first fix “Obstructed” arrow crap, make pet be able to hit moving targets and make F2 ability to work always and speed up ranger’s arrows so you cannot dodge them without dodging by just moving.

Balor.9103:

1 point in Vitality gives 10 points of health to every profession and I guess every NPC including Pet. Every profession has 916 vitality at lvl 80 which is 9160 health for every profession at level 80 but every profession has also specific bonus health. According to GuildWars2 Wiki(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health):
Guardian, Thief, Elementalist have base health = 1645 + 9160(vitality) = 10805
Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger have base health = 5922 + 9160(vitality) = 15082
Warrior, Necromancer have base health = 9212 + 9160(vitality) = 18372
According to that Bear should have at least 41220 health with 0 base health since it has 4122 vitality.
It would be nice if somebody from ANet can confirm this but anyway I know from testing that Bears can sustain huge damage.

In 1 on 1 scenario, bears probably wont go down, but they don’t post much of threat too due to its low damage and lack of CC.
And your so called “sustain huge damage” is basically false when you:
a) In dungeons (AC, CM, TA, COE, ARAH), they go down very quickly in certain areas or against certain bosses. (Not to mention bears VIT scales down to par moa’s family if they’re not in lv80 areas, and even if they’re in lv80 dgn ARAH, they die rather quickly due to mess AOEs)
b) In big scale WvW battle where AOE is everywhere and your pet cant roll or evade.
c) Against most of the gold bosses after lv60 areas.

You’re missing the point Balor. The Warrior is the ‘I kill stuff with weapons’ class. They’re brutally simple in their class design; while the ranger uses pets, the elementalist swaps elemental types, engineers use kits and gadgets and guardians pop off buffs, the warrior runs in and hits stuff or stays back and shoots them with their weapons. In that respect, the class is a one trick pony. If another class takes that trick, suddenly it’s not as useful anymore.
The second half of your post nails the problems; the pet needs adjusting, and the obstructed bug needs fixing. Those are the main problems for pvp.

@Aomine.6843
You are right that this works only in 1 vs 1 I was only talking about 1 vs 1. In any other situation pet’s die very quickly and if bear with 4k vitality dies fast, imagine how fast will any other pet die with no Defy Pain and 1.3k health only. Now every pet post no treat since non of them can hit moving targets so only real use for them in PvP is Protect Me with Bear and his F2 condition removal. I use wolf as secondary because sometimes it knockdowns and has mass fear which is nice but it dies in nanoseconds if there is more than 1 enemy.

jkctmc.8754:

@Apophis

I’ll wager you 100 gold that I can bring you Ranger down as a Warrior, and you won’t even get me below half health.

The “only” way you’ll get me to half health is spec for the Rangers 6 second immunity.

I’ve done it… almost… Ive downed a ton of warriors 1v1 in TPvP on my Ranger. But they always kill me instantly after. They use Vengeance and its GG. I dont think Rangers should be big damage, but Damage + control. Yes we still need a massive Damage buff. But not as much as a Warrior. A Warrior is a predictable front line solider, even with a Rifle. I’d see a ranger making a warrior trip then giving him a nasty bunch of arrows in the back of the head. Or in PvE crippling a stray mob then resuming DPS. ect.

We should outmaneuver and assume control, then deal serious damage. But not as much as Wars. But a LOT more then now.

I just tried out a ranged warrior in spvp, inspired by this post. I didn’t really give the build much thought, just a glass-canon type with all the gun skills/piercing etc.

It was easy to kill and get high scores. I seemed really tough despite the huge damage I was pumping out.

The things that really stood out for me compared to ranger: near-full uptime on swiftness. This is huge for any ranged class! About 70% fury and might uptime. Bleeds from any angle. High damage from all skills. Two huge burst skills. A second weapon set that wasn’t useless. Great control through a low CD cripple and a 5point trait that turns cripple into immobilize. Being able to take endure pain without traiting for it-I could even get it twice if I wanted to (through traits)! High defense and high health for a glass cannon. Easy set up for laying down high burst-and Kill shot is 1500 range woot!

Things I missed: Lacked dodges, lacked random KD from dog pets, lacked traps-oh and I hate using guns, bow just looks so much cooler. I also like the quick fire rate of shortbow.

Obviously I am better at ranger because I’ve played it so much, but I didn’t feel that much weaker than my ranger overall even though I have played over 600 games on my ranger and only a few on the warrior.

How should i put this…

It’s not about dealing damage.. its about killing.

Apophis.8561:

i dont know what everyone is talking about. i never lose to warriors of any spec as a ranger. especially rifle warriors. i can’t understand how any ranger would lose to a warrior in a 1v1

I don’t know where in this thread people are complaining about losing 1v1 to a warrior. That wasn’t the topic of the thread lol….

The complaint is warrior does it better on every front.

Higher hp
Higher defensive even when not traited for it.
Huge burst
Huge sustained damage
Bleeds don’t require a positional shot… sorry but an arrow shot into your gut is gonna make you bleed just as much as a bullet shot into your gut. Not sure where this bleed from the side/behind logic came from in Anet. But its rubbish.

When you can crit someone for 20k then kill them with the next attack if you didn’t one shot them already there is something seriously wrong.

@Yasha.5963

I run with a full glass cannon build in spvp. My shortbow crossfire on other glass cannons did 1k-1400, my rapid fire does the same, right now yes rapid fire does more in 2.5 secs because crossfire is bugged with QZ, but before the bug crossfire did the same damage except continued for the full 4 seconds.

For those saying kill shot is bad for pvp, its not, you dont just come right out and use it, and when used with frenzy it comes so fast its hard to predict. Sure it can be dodged but when they do, they lose a dodge bar which lets you switch and eviscerate or something.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

@Yasha.5963

I run with a full glass cannon build in spvp. My shortbow crossfire on other glass cannons did 1k-1400, my rapid fire does the same, right now yes rapid fire does more in 2.5 secs because crossfire is bugged with QZ, but before the bug crossfire did the same damage except continued for the full 4 seconds.

For those saying kill shot is bad for pvp, its not, you dont just come right out and use it, and when used with frenzy it comes so fast its hard to predict. Sure it can be dodged but when they do, they lose a dodge bar which lets you switch and eviscerate or something.

Thanks Dante, I guess I can never bring myself to build a fully glass canon, my shortbow only does about 700damage to the light armor golem when I spec for my “glass” build.

On the kill shot front, I noticed that not only is it good for pvp, rifle is still good even without it!

It really is. Warriors rifle is like a combo of rangers shortbow+longbow give or take a few things.