Guild Wars 2

Alright, so I made a guardian and finally got around to level him up… I decked him out in exotic ptv/magi’s gear and joined my guild for some WvW. I am in JQ, so reset night’s and most of the time is pretty much a bunch of zerg warefare. Which isn’t a bad thing necessarily. I guess my point was after playing the guardian for a week in WvW and experiencing that side of team support and zerg warefare, I am left to wonder what the ranger actually gives to a zerg? Necro’s have become very relevant, guardians are huge, mesmers have their role, warriors are huge as well, eles are big, it sort of feels like the medium armor class’ fall short when it comes to Zergs and their roles.

Anyone wanna share their thoughts?

There is a cannon on Hills (iirc) that can only be hit by a ranger’s LB, and healing spring is kitten useful when I drop it on the flame ram crew when they are being hit by aoe.

spirits are VERY strong in WvW, and if you play smart, they wont die that often.
You can also provide as good as permanent swiftness and regeneration for an entire zerg (Horn 5 and “natures Voice” doesnt seem to have any AOE cap. Atleast it is not in description). You can also, through your pets, provide mass utility in the form of might stacking, AOE fear, poison fields, mass regen, protection, fury, swiftness, condition removal.

You also got the ability to rez allies without breaking out of the fight. Meaning that the zerg itself doesn’t lose manpower. And just like warriors, guard and necros, rangers can also insta revive lords in lordrooms. Just park a spirit of nature somewhere in there (really easy on hills, as you can place it next to stairs and it will cover almsot entire room)

Rangers also provide something the other classes cannot, meaning, we can go from zerg play, to solo roaming by just relocating 2-3 traits and 1-2 utility skills. We do not have to change gear, or reset traits. Our traitlines, no matter how screwd up they are, allow for easy access to multiple builds in one.

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Atherakhia.4086:

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Thieves have 3 blast finishers and group stealth that can make portal bombing much much easier. Ranger is easily #8 by a margin.

Substance E.4852:

Atherakhia.4086:

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Thieves have 3 blast finishers and group stealth that can make portal bombing much much easier. Ranger is easily #8 by a margin.

Most forget rangers have a ton of fields they can lay down, and can maintain HP nearly as well as a guardian if traited right (melee, tank, and ignoring the pet for more survivability)

You have access to
Fire (2 ways)
Water (a great one)
Ice (only 2 other classes can do this, Engis is a elite)
And a lot of poisons.

Also, they have the ability to almost permanently give everyone swiftness, and regenerations. As well as providing Fury/Might about 50% uptime.

Furthermore, with proper pet usage, you can give perma fury or do many other things (utilizing the moa, various pets with aoe buffs)

Smoke/Water/Ethereal when under water

Theyre also excellent at stalling and slowing enemy movements with barrage, and on par for the best scouts in the game (imho)

Their “zerg” ability is either tanking or support. YOull never see the aoe numbers of a ele, but you can put up respectable numbers WHILE crippling. Youre more a support for the zerg, rather than the hammer.

Honestly, even with using a sw/dag & axe/torch cond. build I die waaaay to quickly up front in zerg v. zerg fair, the aoe is just to large (even in full Apoth gear or Dwayna gear). So, in such a scenario I prefer to use GS/LB and stay the way the heck back. Let all those armor types run in… If not we are just bags for the other team.

So, all we bring is “steady” mediocre as your pet will be dead almost instantly, dps.

I guess for me it kind of comes down to the “jack of all trades” anet has given us. We are not the best at anything, which hurts us in WvW Zerg. Lets put it this way, when you think of a good-run zerg, what classes do you HAVE to have in there? Ranger really doesn’t come to mind in any situation.

Sure, we have #5 for a nice blast finisher… Gaurdian’s have blast finisher on a 4 sec cd lol.

One thing we do have is nice fury to give to a zerg, but when’s the last time your zerg called for a “fury stack” lol…

And its not like we make up for our lack of a special place in the zerg when it comes to open zerg combat, because everyone knows that is just spam 1 skill and its not like our survivability or damage is better than anyone else.

Sure we have fair fields, nothing compares to an ele being able to put down fields for a zerg though, or a necro putting their fields down, or a guardian’s might stacks or a guardians multiple group heals or a warriors banners or anything else of the matter… (although admittedly we have our healing spring which is amazing, but not always readily available since we gotta heal ourselves too)

One thing I will try and look into is spirits and shouts…

I could list for a while but you all get the point… I love this class so much it is such a fun class, I just wish I felt a bit more important that’s all. I play dungeons, no one wants a ranger… I play WvW, people would rather have me be on my guardian. I mean sure all the solo content is great for a ranger, but where do we fit in with team play? It just feels anything a ranger can do another class can do better and we become unnecessary. I guess it just comes back to the mentality people have about the ranger, sorry for sounding down if I do I don’t mean to be bashing the class, just looking for answers/opinions.

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

What you all said does make sense though rereading it, and I agree with a lot of the comments, I suppose playing a class like a Guardian made me want the ranger to have a role as direct as they do, but I have to understand our role is not as clear, which potentially makes us more useful.

Lol

/15characters

Im not saying were vital; but i wouldnt dissuade someone NOT to play a ranger due to we’re useless. We’re not optimal for a part, but we can do many things pretty well.

I play the ranger most because i find it the most fun :/ Which at the end of the day, is the most important thing.

MMOs have frequent shifts in class balance. Where the ranger is today could be something different in 3 months.

Why the lol Chopps? You are in my server you know what I am talking about haha

Malpractice.7850:

Substance E.4852:

Atherakhia.4086:

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Thieves have 3 blast finishers and group stealth that can make portal bombing much much easier. Ranger is easily #8 by a margin.

Most forget rangers have a ton of fields they can lay down, and can maintain HP nearly as well as a guardian if traited right (melee, tank, and ignoring the pet for more survivability)

You have access to
Fire (2 ways)
Water (a great one)
Ice (only 2 other classes can do this, Engis is a elite)
And a lot of poisons.

Also, they have the ability to almost permanently give everyone swiftness, and regenerations. As well as providing Fury/Might about 50% uptime.

Furthermore, with proper pet usage, you can give perma fury or do many other things (utilizing the moa, various pets with aoe buffs)

Smoke/Water/Ethereal when under water

Theyre also excellent at stalling and slowing enemy movements with barrage, and on par for the best scouts in the game (imho)

Their “zerg” ability is either tanking or support. YOull never see the aoe numbers of a ele, but you can put up respectable numbers WHILE crippling. Youre more a support for the zerg, rather than the hammer.

You’ve listed nothing that other classes don’t also do while performing better overall in a zerg fight.

We only have 1 fire field usable for stacking might which can just as easily be done by an ele that I guarantee will be there to do it. Flame trap is a field, yes, but it hardly counts since you need a foe to trigger it and you don’t need more than one field to stack before a push anyway.

While our water field is spectacular, it has never once been enough for anyone to actually respect me being there on a ranger to use it, not when guardians heal better and eles can also put down a comparable field of their own. Maybe it’s just a Blackgate thing but I also rarely see Rangers on SoR or the other mystery server that aren’t solo roamers.

As far as conditions go a marks necro is just flat better at it and that won’t be changing anytime soon since they decided marks needed to be even larger.

The regen from natures is not terrible but suffers from an aoe cap like all skills and also suffers from the fact that regen is based on the targets healing power, not the casters. I could have 1000 healing but it won’t do much for the necro with 0 I put it on.

Pets also suffer from the aoe cap and thus are ineffective for stacking purposes never mind the fact that often I can’t get the pet to actually fire off its buff before the group has started to move because anet seems to think pet skills should take all day to activate.

I don’t think I have ever even seen two zergs meet in the borderlands lake and if they did they would probably just try to get out of the water before the other and kill the one who wasn’t fast enough.

Barrage is okay but doesn’t hold a flame to skills like the guardian wall, spectral wall, or static field when it comes to controlling enemy movement. Most of the time I feel like people only move out of it to avoid stacking too much cripple or because they reflexively think it’s an arrow cart, not because it poses any immanent threat.

Rangers can do a lot of things but we don’t do anything spectacularly and when a zerg gets to 50-60 strong the value of a jack-of-all-trades diminishes to the point of uselessness when the chances that a specialized person is there to do a particular job is almost a sure thing.

Spirits
Long Duration Water Field
Entangle

This is 3 of the best things a ranger can bring to a group. If you play a signet ranger you really don’t bring much to a group another class can’t already do better TBH. I don’t think rangers are bad, they just have their moments.

Paz Shadow.9715:

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

Water Fields on siege weaponry / ram are aimed toward eles and rangers

Paz Shadow.9715:

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

We actually used to be pretty awesome when it came to running our pet over necro mark spam on a choke but then spvp ruined that for the most part.

Substance E.4852:

Malpractice.7850:

Substance E.4852:

Atherakhia.4086:

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Thieves have 3 blast finishers and group stealth that can make portal bombing much much easier. Ranger is easily #8 by a margin.

Most forget rangers have a ton of fields they can lay down, and can maintain HP nearly as well as a guardian if traited right (melee, tank, and ignoring the pet for more survivability)

You have access to
Fire (2 ways)
Water (a great one)
Ice (only 2 other classes can do this, Engis is a elite)
And a lot of poisons.

Also, they have the ability to almost permanently give everyone swiftness, and regenerations. As well as providing Fury/Might about 50% uptime.

Furthermore, with proper pet usage, you can give perma fury or do many other things (utilizing the moa, various pets with aoe buffs)

Smoke/Water/Ethereal when under water

Theyre also excellent at stalling and slowing enemy movements with barrage, and on par for the best scouts in the game (imho)

Their “zerg” ability is either tanking or support. YOull never see the aoe numbers of a ele, but you can put up respectable numbers WHILE crippling. Youre more a support for the zerg, rather than the hammer.

You’ve listed nothing that other classes don’t also do while performing better overall in a zerg fight.

We only have 1 fire field usable for stacking might which can just as easily be done by an ele that I guarantee will be there to do it. Flame trap is a field, yes, but it hardly counts since you need a foe to trigger it and you don’t need more than one field to stack before a push anyway.

While our water field is spectacular, it has never once been enough for anyone to actually respect me being there on a ranger to use it, not when guardians heal better and eles can also put down a comparable field of their own. Maybe it’s just a Blackgate thing but I also rarely see Rangers on SoR or the other mystery server that aren’t solo roamers.

As far as conditions go a marks necro is just flat better at it and that won’t be changing anytime soon since they decided marks needed to be even larger.

The regen from natures is not terrible but suffers from an aoe cap like all skills and also suffers from the fact that regen is based on the targets healing power, not the casters. I could have 1000 healing but it won’t do much for the necro with 0 I put it on.

Pets also suffer from the aoe cap and thus are ineffective for stacking purposes never mind the fact that often I can’t get the pet to actually fire off its buff before the group has started to move because anet seems to think pet skills should take all day to activate.

I don’t think I have ever even seen two zergs meet in the borderlands lake and if they did they would probably just try to get out of the water before the other and kill the one who wasn’t fast enough.

Barrage is okay but doesn’t hold a flame to skills like the guardian wall, spectral wall, or static field when it comes to controlling enemy movement. Most of the time I feel like people only move out of it to avoid stacking too much cripple or because they reflexively think it’s an arrow cart, not because it poses any immanent threat.

Rangers can do a lot of things but we don’t do anything spectacularly and when a zerg gets to 50-60 strong the value of a jack-of-all-trades diminishes to the point of uselessness when the chances that a specialized person is there to do a particular job is almost a sure thing.

Regen is based off the caster not the recipient, don’t spread false information.

Nothing except a long medium sized water field. Actually, the best thing we have is the black bear for the 11s aoe weakness. Spirits will blow up way too fast in high tier wvw because they can’t evade damage. I just play on my guardian for wvw zerg play now and roam with my ranger.

Being in JQ myself , here what i usually use on my Ranger in WvW :

Rabid based trapper for solo roaming
OR
Apothecary / Settler Condition build for solo roaming

Same Apothecary / Settler build can be used as a spirits / warhorn group buffer if you spec in spirits .
OR
Shout build for 100% perma swiftness / regen

Full signet GS longbow build when i am bored and i want to pew pew myself to death with barrage .

Paz Shadow.9715:

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

my old server used to rely on rangers, and you would frequently hear;
Rangers, drop waterfield on gate. or Rangers, get up in front and use entangle. Right before the S&R nerf, we had commanders calling out for rangers to always pick S&R. And it got used by the masses for zerg fights.

The thing is, most people got NO clue about the utilities rangers provide. All they see is a mediocre class that is easy mode in low level PvE. And to be honest, it IS easy mode in PvE. Until you reach the 50’s, the pet will be able to tank 80% of the creeps. While you just sit back and pew pew with the bow. Other classes can’t do that, and i honestly think their slightly jealous of us in that aspect.

Also, the vast majority of players, have little, or no understanding how this class works. They level one up to level 80, put on full zerker (cuz thats what their warrior has) and dies. They then proceed to deem the profession useless and tell everyone else to re-roll something else.
Then the next day they get rofl-stomped by a ranger in PvP/WvW and cry their kitten off on the forums how rangers are OP and need nerf.

EDIT: rangers are often called for to destroy cannons up on walls, because their heavy ranged DPS (and yes, no other class can fight the raw ranged DPS we do. Ele can do more AOE, but their range isn’t as long as ours)

One of the major strengths of the ranger in WvW is that (with the exception of golems) your pet remains active when you man a siege weapon.

I’ll give last night’s tower defense as an example. I asked the elementalist on the floor level AC to get on the wall instead because I was tankier (and playing commander at the time, so I was ready to go down with the sinking ship that was Bravost.) I put down my wolf at the gate with “Guard!” and used F2 as the gate breached. Everyone that got feared died by AC fire. Next I popped Rampage As One for stability, fired a second round of AC fire right before the AC got killed. Combining “Protect Me!” with Signet of Stone gave me 6 seconds of invulnerability which I used to get to the ballista atop of the stairs and in the split second I had before my invulnerability wore out I fired a Spread Shot towards the stairs. I got downed right after, only to rally because I had pretty much tagged every enemy in the zerg.

We killed about 3/4th of their zerg with less than 10 defenders in the tower. We lost it in the end due to the sheer number difference. But we gave them hell in the process.

As for open field combat, Entangle is great when you use it at the back of an enemy zerg. Healing Spring is a great on-demand water field and the spider pets’ poison fields are great while you can keep your pet in the back. For small roaming teams swapping weapons to Torch for Bonfire, then Warhorn for Call of the Wild is what your team will love you for.

To be honest there’s not a lot that a ranger provides in these large scale fights. I play on a high ranked server in a competitive guild and for large scale wvw, I always play my guardian or ele, they’re simply so much better for the group.

I’ve resigned to say that ranger is a ST class. Its strength lies in being able to lock down and take out single targets with relative ease. Yet this is useless in large scale fights, where its about group buffing and aoe damage and cc. The mechanic of the ranger doesn’t lend well to these types of fights, with the decent pets dying very quickly. Spirits have limited use due to their health pool and long cd. This leaves us with trapper, signet or survival build.

Trapper provides nice fields (eles are much more effective in this department), yet by taking traps you lose a lot of survivability utilities. Just about the best trap to take is frost, but that’s on a relatively long cooldown.

Survival build has some nice break stuns and roots, yet entangle gets destroyed in large fights, and muddy terrain recently got hit by nerf bat.

That leaves us with signet build, which is probably the most effective, in combination with LB/GS. You do similar damage to warriors, but lack most of the utility.

What rangers really need is something that lets them spec outside of their current mechanic for large scale wvw, by stowing the pet and getting something in return. My preference would be to give rangers a grandmaster trait that provides traps on mechanic skill bar when stowing pets. Hello usefulness in wvw…

I believe they call it Barrage, son.

E: Just hope that you don’t hit 5 guardians.

E2: Son

i think ranger in big fights is good. BUT! you must to practice 4 times more to be good in wvw as a warrior, 6x ele, 8x necro or 10 times as a guardian. engies need flame thrower and nades, thieves short bow spread poison what can win a fight, but they just still need go and collect lootbags.
lot of us like entagle but i think that a very bad skill in battles. lot of aoe, stability. what i prefer are runes and rao with troll. 26 secs stability, 6 secs immortality and enlarged damage. you can survive the first seconds where the most die. spam maul as much as possible for 4.5k unbuffed damage. auto attack evaid and spwoop help a lot to survive. if the battle is finished or you swooped out to heal change to longbow and hunt down the fleeing low hp with 2.5k auto attack crit and with 5-9k rapid shot.
beware with barrage! it suck down 2/3 of your hp if the enemy zerg have retail.

i think ranger is maybe the most challenging class in wvw. i have problems only with the barrage and with the diversity of the weapons whats we can use. every weapons except the GS are only good for 1v1. we got a little off hand love but still no good main hand (sword is a pvp weapon)

McWolfy.5924:

i think ranger in big fights is good. BUT! you must to practice 4 times more to be good in wvw as a warrior, 6x ele, 8x necro or 10 times as a guardian. engies need flame thrower and nades, thieves short bow spread poison what can win a fight, but they just still need go and collect lootbags.
lot of us like entagle but i think that a very bad skill in battles. lot of aoe, stability. what i prefer are runes and rao with troll. 26 secs stability, 6 secs immortality and enlarged damage. you can survive the first seconds where the most die. spam maul as much as possible for 4.5k unbuffed damage. auto attack evaid and spwoop help a lot to survive. if the battle is finished or you swooped out to heal change to longbow and hunt down the fleeing low hp with 2.5k auto attack crit and with 5-9k rapid shot.
beware with barrage! it suck down 2/3 of your hp if the enemy zerg have retail.

i think ranger is maybe the most challenging class in wvw. i have problems only with the barrage and with the diversity of the weapons whats we can use. every weapons except the GS are only good for 1v1. we got a little off hand love but still no good main hand (sword is a pvp weapon)

Axe are prime zerg “ranged” weapon… it hits hard (yes, it really does) and hits 3 targets. GS aint your only option, however, for zergs, it’s the best

Prysin.8542:

McWolfy.5924:

i think ranger in big fights is good. BUT! you must to practice 4 times more to be good in wvw as a warrior, 6x ele, 8x necro or 10 times as a guardian. engies need flame thrower and nades, thieves short bow spread poison what can win a fight, but they just still need go and collect lootbags.
lot of us like entagle but i think that a very bad skill in battles. lot of aoe, stability. what i prefer are runes and rao with troll. 26 secs stability, 6 secs immortality and enlarged damage. you can survive the first seconds where the most die. spam maul as much as possible for 4.5k unbuffed damage. auto attack evaid and spwoop help a lot to survive. if the battle is finished or you swooped out to heal change to longbow and hunt down the fleeing low hp with 2.5k auto attack crit and with 5-9k rapid shot.
beware with barrage! it suck down 2/3 of your hp if the enemy zerg have retail.

i think ranger is maybe the most challenging class in wvw. i have problems only with the barrage and with the diversity of the weapons whats we can use. every weapons except the GS are only good for 1v1. we got a little off hand love but still no good main hand (sword is a pvp weapon)

Axe are prime zerg “ranged” weapon… it hits hard (yes, it really does) and hits 3 targets. GS aint your only option, however, for zergs, it’s the best

ofc not my only option. i can go with sword/dagger but i will die. i used axe for a half year but it have a weakness. you need to select target. to select a good target in a liquid zerg is nearly impossible. i want axe as a melee weapon. a real whirling berzerker thing… awww

Puandro.3245:

Spirits
Long Duration Water Field
Entangle

This is 3 of the best things a ranger can bring to a group. If you play a signet ranger you really don’t bring much to a group another class can’t already do better TBH. I don’t think rangers are bad, they just have their moments.

I’m genuinely curious. How are your spirits staying alive in a zerg? What are you doing in the zerg that is somehow keeping your spirits alive when the zergs run through each other spamming AoE? When the commander says stay on me and move as a group, how are your spirits living through the inevitable AoE?

Honestly, the way the current higher tier zerg meta is being played (very tanky builds, tonnes of party boons, balling and running through mobs) the only ranger build I can think of which comes close to the relevance of other classes would be the trapper.

As the OP said, when you play a guardian, mesmer or elementalist and you realise how powerful these classes are in WvW, it’s hard to play a ranger and think your best performance in the zerg is going to be must ordinary compared to what other classes can pull off. Guardians have insane boons including the incredibly important stability, a spammable blast finisher, reflection skills, exclusive access to wards as well as an easy access swiftness skill on the staff (less limited than warhorn 5). Mesmers have portal, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game, Veil, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game and a core part of the zerg meta and Feedback. Elementalists have combo fields galore, including two very important water fields. Their AoE is easier to use and Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Frozen Ground are incredible control skills, all on the same weapon. They are more reliable than ranger for might stacking (Flame Trap requires an enemy to trigger it and the torch has a long cooldown).

If your WvW zerg guild is focusing on being completely optimised and trimming all the fat, I don’t think there is a single niche the ranger fills that isn’t done better by another class (the best I can think of is immobilise which bypasses stability but is easily removed). In less zergy tiers or against lower skilled opponents you can get away with more, but I don’t think the ranger has the tool box suited to zerging, at least not at the highest levels. Rangers tend to be at their best when they focus on solo survival, which is why so many players loved the beast master build. It wasn’t a zerg build, but it was great for roaming. Rangers aren’t bad, I just don’t see what they bring to the table at high tier zerg gameplay that isn’t done better by another class.

Shiren.9532:

Puandro.3245:

Spirits
Long Duration Water Field
Entangle

This is 3 of the best things a ranger can bring to a group. If you play a signet ranger you really don’t bring much to a group another class can’t already do better TBH. I don’t think rangers are bad, they just have their moments.

I’m genuinely curious. How are your spirits staying alive in a zerg? What are you doing in the zerg that is somehow keeping your spirits alive when the zergs run through each other spamming AoE? When the commander says stay on me and move as a group, how are your spirits living through the inevitable AoE?

Honestly, the way the current higher tier zerg meta is being played (very tanky builds, tonnes of party boons, balling and running through mobs) the only ranger build I can think of which comes close to the relevance of other classes would be the trapper.

As the OP said, when you play a guardian, mesmer or elementalist and you realise how powerful these classes are in WvW, it’s hard to play a ranger and think your best performance in the zerg is going to be must ordinary compared to what other classes can pull off. Guardians have insane boons including the incredibly important stability, a spammable blast finisher, reflection skills, exclusive access to wards as well as an easy access swiftness skill on the staff (less limited than warhorn 5). Mesmers have portal, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game, Veil, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game and a core part of the zerg meta and Feedback. Elementalists have combo fields galore, including two very important water fields. Their AoE is easier to use and Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Frozen Ground are incredible control skills, all on the same weapon. They are more reliable than ranger for might stacking (Flame Trap requires an enemy to trigger it and the torch has a long cooldown).

If your WvW zerg guild is focusing on being completely optimised and trimming all the fat, I don’t think there is a single niche the ranger fills that isn’t done better by another class (the best I can think of is immobilise which bypasses stability but is easily removed). In less zergy tiers or against lower skilled opponents you can get away with more, but I don’t think the ranger has the tool box suited to zerging, at least not at the highest levels. Rangers tend to be at their best when they focus on solo survival, which is why so many players loved the beast master build. It wasn’t a zerg build, but it was great for roaming. Rangers aren’t bad, I just don’t see what they bring to the table at high tier zerg gameplay that isn’t done better by another class.

Well i said group not zerg, small skirmishes not lag fest which are common in T1. Im on JQ btw.

without punishment for big zergs(body block as in gw1 or something like that) small scale fights are rare. not worth to bring build for it.

@ OP, I recently leveled a guardian to 80 and after a few days I came to the same conclusion. A few weeks later, I realized that guardian has to be the easiest/most boring profession in the game to play.

I have spent months playing a Ranger in zerg warfare and I have learned that the ranger is only as good as the players playing them.

After reading this thread and many others, 2 important utility skills are never or hardly mentioned:

Muddy Terrain and Spike Trap.

ATM, the current meta relies on Guardians spamming “Stand our Ground” of AoE stability that there other core professions rely on. There are 3 counters to stability:

Immobilize, Cripple and Slow.

Yes, with all of the condition removal a player may think its pointless buts its not. Learning how to use Spike Trap, Muddy Terrain and Entangle will help your group slow down/CC other support zergers lagging behind the guardian/warrior melee train so your group can pick these players off.

Rangers are a good zerging profession and a more well rounded compare to others. I have a blog on anook that I have posted a few builds I have been working with recently.

Paz Shadow.9715:

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

I was laughing because you forgot “WATER FIELDS! BLAST!”

Thanks for all the feedback, ya sorry about that chopps lol…

Okay, so remember when we used to have guard? That was a skill that made us unique. We need something like that again, something no other class can do. We USED to be the “siege destroyers” and it worked for us. We had great aoe with barrage to hit siege in hard to reach places, and our pets could wreck havoc up top walls.

I want something that will make us unique again… since the bottom line is, if you are a commander, commanding 20 people, and you get to choose your “ideal” zerg, do you even take a ranger? Maybe one, that’s it. I wish our class would/could be the class where commanders are like “okay everyone, guard’s x up, okay now rangers x up… hmm, seems we need more rangers any1 wanna switch to their ranger?” haha that would be cool imo.

I know we are top 2 (us and thieves) for roaming, and small squad combat we really excel in, but once the group number gets over 5 we really start to become irrelevant real fast.

Who said Rangers belong in zergs?
Real Rangers do not hang out with other people.

Erro.2784:

What rangers really need is something that lets them spec outside of their current mechanic for large scale wvw, by stowing the pet and getting something in return. My preference would be to give rangers a grandmaster trait that provides traps on mechanic skill bar when stowing pets. Hello usefulness in wvw…

It isn’t really a finished post but you might like to take a look if you feel that way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Pointless-Ranger-Suggestions/first#post2550550

I’m playing on Sanctum of Rall, so slugging it out in T1.

In large fights rangers provide healing spring, entangle, and muddy terrain. One healing spring with good blasts can heal an entire front line, and provide quite a bit of regeneration for the next push. It is by far the most important thing a ranger provides. Ele water fields are a piece of the puzzle, too, but they do not make up for a healing spring (huge, lasts forever, clears conditions).

The guild I’m in is fairly lenient on builds, but healing spring is a concrete requirement for rangers. The commanders want it around that much.

Personally I look at my ranger as a healer and secondary tank (0/0/10/30/30, full cleric gear). Survive with the front line to drop healing springs when they need it. Keep dropping shouts to give everyone around me a lot of regeneration. Soak up a ton of damage, and contribute to the dps a bit while I’m at it. This does mean I’m running melee all the time, though.

Chopps.5047:

Paz Shadow.9715:

Just to add some more, I guess I am talking about feeling important to a zerg… you know here are some examples:

Commander: “Alright mesmer, drop a portal down to get the rest of our guys up”
“Mesmers, viel please for the zerg on my command”

Commander: “Can necros please put their wells on the door incase the zerg rushes out”

Commander: “Gaurdians, blast finisher and might buffs please”

Commander: “Ele static fields please”

Like when is the last time (if any) that a person has heard a commander have a routine role (that another class cannot do) just for the ranger?

I was laughing because you forgot “WATER FIELDS! BLAST!”

“Just for Ranger” doesn’t apply when eles and engineers have 2 water fields each and eles are actually welcomed into a zerg.

if you are kicked out/told to GTFO of a zerg, you, as a ranger, are doing something horribly wrong.

Knights/valkyrie mix + GS + healing spring = zerg surfing

You can never have to many Healing Springs.

My issue with Healing Spring is that it’s still our 6 button, so you get to decide if you need to save it for yourself or drop it with the ball.

I understand where everyone is coming from, it seems pretty much healing spring is the unanimous consensus for what we bring to a zerg. Some people offer spirit builds, or shout builds, I can see where that may help some. I am never kicked from a zerg, my point was that if there are already 2+ rangers in a 30 man zerg, do I bring my ranger or do I bring my guardian to help out the zerg? The answer is clear, which is unfortunate because I would have liked the ranger to be more vital to a zerg which they really are not at this point in time. Thanks for the feedback all.

Broseph.9104:

I believe they call it Barrage, son.

E: Just hope that you don’t hit 5 guardians.

E2: Son

I won’t dissapoint you, father.

-hits six guardians with barrage-

I am in a guild in tier 3 that runs small groups of 20-30 to fight larger groups.

We run no rangers or engineers. There is a thief or 2 for scouting. Medium armor classes get hosed in the meta with respect to larger groups. On the other hand, they are good solo roamers (though so are elementalists and mesmers who don’t suffer the same fate, though they have to respec and likely change gear).

For some serious Ranger offense against a group;

Might->
Superior Sigil of Doom (Poison) on Long Bow->
Zephyr->
Long Bow Skill 5->

Sit back and watch the enemy group panic.
Rangers are a sadly underrated offensive and control class.

Healing spring and heavy damage.. outside of that, in the upper tiers, they bring nothing. Their damage output in zergs is extreme if built properly (and learn to stay alive).

It’s not uncommon for for a front line to drop under a barrage, and it really isn’t something the enemy can defend against outside of not even engaging. However if you try it in anything else other than zerker gear, you mine as well not even bother, the damage is pathetic.

I’ve tried both the traps build, BM build, both with as much damage as can put out, as well as, in full bunker, and both just completely sucked compared to a sheer damage build.

To put it into perspective; I think the amount of badges I accumulate (in a good night) under traps or BM is 50-70 per hour). In a full zerker sheer damage build I average about 200-350 per hour. Not to mention you die a lot less. Stick 2-3 rangers in the back dropping barrage on the enemy zerg, and the battles are usually over quite quick.

The problem is they are extremely underrated when it comes to WvW. People get into this mindset they need a BM or traps build, or heavy on the toughness and healing, or these PVT builds. All of which are no help to the team whatsoever, because they have no decent support skills outside healing spring. The damage output is garbage at best, so they don’t even bring that under those builds.

What they bring is a lot of damage if built properly. When the zerg battles are essentially over in 10-15 seconds after they start, they really don’t need to be bringing condition removal, healing, spirits, boons etc..

I agree with the above poster to a certain extent. However, I don’t think the build is a good one for roaming or for organized guild play.

It is fine for running with a large zerg.

Like many things in the game, it all depends upon what you plan on doing.

After trying out a condition, healing, and dueling/pet build with my ranger in WvW since launch and going through the nerfs, I have to say that a condition/trap ranger is the best thing a ranger can bring to the zerg, with the healing spring naturally.

In WvW the pets are pretty much useless unless you trait far down into the path to make them sturdier, but even then they die way too quickly. Replacing a signet to make them invulnerable for a few seconds removes the capability to have a quick 20 sec CD on a trap which can do amazing CC or DPS.

Spirits can be useful in a siege defense, but out in the open they die way too easily to the massive amounts of CC that is usually flying around. Oh, and using a longbow or shortbow against the zergs? Prepare to kill yourself because of how many guardians are with the groups.

Samis.1750:

I agree with the above poster to a certain extent. However, I don’t think the build is a good one for roaming or for organized guild play.

It is fine for running with a large zerg.

Like many things in the game, it all depends upon what you plan on doing.

Nope it doesn’t work for roaming at all. I play in T1/T2, and if you try and roam your pretty much run over every 5-10 min so I don’t even bother. It does work for small groups. I’ve tried all the above I mentioned in small groups and all that tends to happen is the battles drag out, where its pretty much a coin flip to who wins. I don’t like to leave things to chance, nor do I have the patience for drawn out battles lol.

A full zerker ranger with one well placed barrage in small group play almost always ends the battle shortly after. Most small group encounters tend to be against other guilds whom I’d think are organized. Under that, the enemies take anywhere from 10k-15K damage with barrage, which pretty much downs the lot of them.

It’s not that hard to stay out of harms way now with our new stealth and point blank shot. The trick is though, learning your enemies movements to actually stay alive. You can only take about 2-4 hits.

healing spring and mid damage. our pets wipe down whatever you do. the spring is unnecessary because every zerg have minimum 4-5 whos bring more than enough waterfields and non of the commanders ask an ele to reroll to something other because they have a ranger with spring :P
i still think maul need to be a blast finisher. guardian hammer have blast finisher with the same recharge. even mesmer have more blast finisher! prestige’s recharge is 30 sec.
we are soo close to be good in any situation
but now we are like something like this: (do you see the dreadful faces of the pets what brings fear in the heart of the enemy?)

This is the BEST Ranger WvW build EVER…

Its called the Guardian build…

Process is, take your Ranger press the delete button, don’t worry you will never miss your Ranger, create Guardian character…you will never look back, never after worry about nerfs, everyone in your group will love you, you can even buy the commander tag and people will follow you with confidence in WvW…

Don’t be a burden on your server by playing the NAFF, BROKEN, SUBPAR Ranger…do the decent thing…play Guardian…