Guild Wars 2

So how much are people willing to bet that when the balance patch goes live other professions are going to QQ like mad about Rangers until they force the devs to nerf or remove the buffs?

Like a jealous sibling on christmas day…. “No mummy if I can’t have it then he can’t either!”

Not at all? This patch isn’t going to change much in either PvP or WvW unless there’s much more we haven’t been told.

I feel like there will be immense QQ about the Rapid Fire change.

Rapid fire looks cooler than it actually is useful. It’s a slightly larger burst, but I won’t be running LB anytime soon.

MH axe change is kind of exciting, but only in zergs. For roaming, axe attacks so slow you aren’t going to be utilizing the might very much. Might be helpful for taking camps and PvE related things.

Signet changes will be fun, and these are where I can see any QQ coming in. They are just these QoL things that really should have been there from the beginning. Anything that only affects the pet /mainly affects the pet is ridiculous (I’m looking at you RaO).

The other changes are pretty meh.

Rapid Fire is going to be very good. We’re looking at a 10k burst in 1s with quickness. Yes it will be negated more easily with dodges and whatnot, but it is only on a 8s cd. Even w/o quickness it will actually be advantageous to use rapid fire now on only 2s cast time.

I often use Rapid Fire + Quickening Zephyr, so the burst is already in the game.
After the patch we’ll be able to use it a whole lot more often though and it doesn’t require a utility slot.

Using Rapid Fire + Quickening Zephyr after the patch will probably be a waste.

The biggest complaints might come from WvW thieves, because the 6s reveal on Sic ’em is a very long time if you depend on stealth to survive.

Propably yes, players will complain, but I doubt ANet to nerf solely based on that.

Yep they packed a lot of extra damage into that ability so people are going to qq… Especially when they get melted by a glass ranger at 1500 range. But rf needs something. And it’s on a reasonable cool down so it’s not like we are going to spam it.

remember, Anet almost never goes back on their buffs. Only exceptions so far is Dhuumfire and Healing Signet. And look at who much QQ it took to get those nerfed.

Ranger is pretty well on the bottom rung for PVP and PVE so this patch won’t change much relatively. Other classes are getting buffs.

What it will do in PVP I think is put them on the map as a viable power roamer since thieves are also getting some key nerfs.

If there is much QQ it will be from disgruntled thieves and players suddenly getting killed by an influx of power roamer rangers where they didn’t before. They won’t have much legitimate grounds for complaint though as I don’t see the cap and teamfight meta changing much from these changes and the same ol’ classes are going to dominate there.

Warriors I believe are also getting buffs so the relative game is going to shift upward. Whether rangers gain in the relative is going to depend on more things that a few power based moves. It is still very advantageous to ball up and throw buffs and condi damage everywhere in PVP for instance. It is still very advantageous to run unkillable bunker and heavy armor classes with actual damage. Engineers are also getting buffs.

TL:DR how much do you guys really see a few power based buffs advancing the total power of the class relative to other buffs and the status quo.

Said it before and I’ll say it again… the #1 issue far and away is our class mechnic…pets suck, point blank, period (outside of simple 1v1 encounters lol)

Actually Otaking you are plain wrong:
Bottom barrel PvE – Necromancer by a massive margin
Bottom barrel PvP – Tied between Necro and Ranger

In PvE you will get 15% permanent boost to DPS thanks to sword mainhand. Our DPS will then be closer to mesmer/warrior. With signets working without investment, you will see a LOT more DPS from rangers due to 25% damage boost for 8 seconds without having to spend massive points in Marks. That is HUGE.

Rangers are already viable power roamers. They do require a bit of skill to be played, but glassbow, however trollish it is, wrecks people who do not actively counter the ranger. As a matter of fact, PRE PATCH power LB has a peculiar role to fill in PvP. It is that of a “destructive decoy”. If left on its own, the glassbow player will demolish most enemies quite effectively. There is no denying it that 2-4k AA spam IS going to matter. You will notice it, be it a super tanky warrior or a full glass thief. It hurts, and it cannot be left unchecked.
So, what is the purpose of glassbow in PvP?`To tie down the enemy roamer. Make the enemy roamer use time and resources chasing you. This effectively prevents far point captures, and also makes ganking less effective due to the enemy lacking a roamer.
It comes as no shock that when talking glassbow VS thief, it is first one to fire that usually wins. Thief will be forced to back down or to go all in and kill you. Your job as a ranger is simply to make that thief spend A LOT of time getting you down (use terrain to constantly hide from shadowsteps and steals. This slows down the thief A LOT).
So with enemy roamer tied up, your team will have an easier time. If the enemy team has no designated roamer (bad team) then you will probably be able to sit off-node and destroy anyone trying to hold it or force them off the node so a team member can decap.

Playing power ranger is not rocket science, it is essentially a game of chess. Each skill is a pawn on the board, The terrain and allies making up the “heavier” pieces. How you utilize your pieces decide the outcome. There is no absolutes in PvP, none at all. Those who cannot accept that reality have no place in PvP in the first place.

Stands up and begins clapping slowly

Good post, Prysin.

I will also note that the new gm, predators onslaugh, is not a 8% increase as some see it due to twisted maths, its is 15% increase. Here to explain why:
pet + ranger = 100%.
Pet =~30%.
Ranger = ~70%.
If pet is raised by 5% then new total damage is ~35% + ~70%. = 105% of normal dps
If ranger is raised by 10% then new total damage is ~30% + ~80% = 110% of normal dps
If ranger and pet is raised by 10% and 5% respectively then new total damage is 115% of normal dps.
Some people are so hung up in the fact that pet=% of dps that they forget that pet=% of base dps. If speccing bm, pet dps vs player dps is closer to 60% pet and 40% player. The pet does not reduce dps of the ranger unless you invest in the beastmaster line.

Guang already calculated ranger dps with buffs to around 9.8k, my corrections to pet vuln made that 10.3k. With PO that dps becomes 11.8k dps. Which is going a long way in making rangers more competitive in PvE.

Ranger is going to be dirty in pvp. People will surely start whining hard.

Prysin.8542:

I will also note that the new gm, predators onslaugh, is not a 8% increase as some see it due to twisted maths, its is 15% increase. Here to explain why:
pet + ranger = 100%.
Pet =~30%.
Ranger = ~70%.
If pet is raised by 5% then new total damage is ~35% + ~70%. = 105% of normal dps
If ranger is raised by 10% then new total damage is ~30% + ~80% = 110% of normal dps
If ranger and pet is raised by 10% and 5% respectively then new total damage is 115% of normal dps.

That’s not how percentages work.

If pet damage is 30% of the ranger’s total, then a 5% increase is 1.05*30% = 31.5%.
If ranger damage is 70% of the total, then a 10% increase is 1.1*70% = 77%

31.5% + 77% = 108.5% of non-PO damage.

really depends if it means the following:

15% of total damage combined of the two (the so called 70/30) divided as a 10/5 between the two. or;

10/5% of the individual current damage pools (as Solandri calc’d)

I’d guess the latter to be honest. I think this 70/30 thing darkens the waters a bit at times. Should really think of Ranger doing 100% of their Damage plus a pet doing 100%
of theirs and combining the two rather than seeing them both contributing to the same 100%.

Prysin.8542:

I will also note that the new gm, predators onslaugh, is not a 8% increase as some see it due to twisted maths, its is 15% increase. Here to explain why:
pet + ranger = 100%.
Pet =~30%.
Ranger = ~70%.
If pet is raised by 5% then new total damage is ~35% + ~70%. = 105% of normal dps
If ranger is raised by 10% then new total damage is ~30% + ~80% = 110% of normal dps
If ranger and pet is raised by 10% and 5% respectively then new total damage is 115% of normal dps.
Some people are so hung up in the fact that pet=% of dps that they forget that pet=% of base dps. If speccing bm, pet dps vs player dps is closer to 60% pet and 40% player. The pet does not reduce dps of the ranger unless you invest in the beastmaster line.

Guang already calculated ranger dps with buffs to around 9.8k, my corrections to pet vuln made that 10.3k. With PO that dps becomes 11.8k dps. Which is going a long way in making rangers more competitive in PvE.

No. That math is wrong.
Assuming DPS is split 30/70, pet/ranger:
Pet 30% => 35%. Would be a 16.67% increase for pets.
Ranger 70% => 80%. Would be a 14.29% increase for ranger.

Actual total DPS increase is 8.5%

Don’t really care about any changes aside from the signet changes, with some of my builds I use the signets for the passives, but having the actives will make a massive difference. I personally think that ranger signet actives are the strongest in game, probably why it required 30 points to get them =p One thing we still don’t have and I do want, is an instant cast stability. Might seem like a small thing, but nothing is worse than getting CC chained and one of the skills the enemy interrupts is your stability, quite ironic actually. Making SotW instant cast wouldn’t be difficult considering all our other signets are instant cast, wouldn’t be OP either.

instant cast may be a bit “too strong” but make it 1/2 sec is fair. same with RaO.
1/2 is just long enough to interrupt, but just short enough to not hinder play.

I highly doubt that massive QQ will actually happen, let alone result in a nerf. Might from axe can be removed by mesmers/necros/thieves, LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes. And lets not forget how the longbow will still struggle when an enemy can close the gap, and the high fragility and lack of condi removal most longbow builds seem to have. On the burstier ele or necro specs I play, I can usually kill a glass longbow ranger before it can rapid fire more than once. The signet changes will be strong for sure, but its not like these effects weren’t possible before with the trait, they’ll just be quite a bit more common, but thats not entirely a new trick.

Rangers will certainly be better, but not at all overpowered.

Maybe if the sword auto got fixed already… :d
Ofc i’m happy for the dmg boost, but it’s not like a sword ranger was all that far behind a warrior, with the unique party buffs we were already better than a second warrior in a proper speed-clear.

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

Bryzy.2719:

So how much are people willing to bet that when the balance patch goes live other professions are going to QQ like mad about Rangers until they force the devs to nerf or remove the buffs?

Like a jealous sibling on christmas day…. “No mummy if I can’t have it then he can’t either!”

Which build? And ill take that bet.

Prysin.8542:

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

Yeah RTW makes it essentially impossible to dodge by strafing and blocking isn’t and issue if you have a brain. I sometimes humor myself by running missle deflection on my warrior and the amount of rangers that don’t stop shooting themselves is astounding really.

If people QQ after making Rangers even more close to a Competitive state, that would be the shame of the community…

Most of Rangers aren’t using Power builds, but BM, Conditions and Bunker instead.
So not using LB even.

We “Power Rangers” may have bigger amount right here, but it is because of our complainations, which seems to be heard right now. Admit it

With the upcomming LB buffs, I plan to drop QZ and get something useful to grab necks of foes – The DPS may would seem really insane with Rapid Fire w/QZ, but that still requires an ultility skill slot, which could be used more wisely, and don’t forget about QZ’s healing debuff, which is a really fair sacrifice after the patch, as it is now.

And yet we will been stunlocked under 100b’s 30-45k overkills and 2hit downed by thieves, taking mesmer damages in dodge or whatever annoys us mostly. Those are the real reason to QQ for, not our changes…

RoyalPredator.9163:

If people QQ after making Rangers even more close to a Competitive state, that would be the shame of the community…

Most of Rangers aren’t using Power builds, but BM, Conditions and Bunker instead.
So not using LB even.

We “Power Rangers” may have bigger amount right here, but it is because of our complainations, which seems to be heard right now. Admit it

With the upcomming LB buffs, I plan to drop QZ and get something useful to grab necks of foes – The DPS may would seem really insane with Rapid Fire w/QZ, but that still requires an ultility skill slot, which could be used more wisely, and don’t forget about QZ’s healing debuff, which is a really fair sacrifice after the patch, as it is now.

---

And yet we will been stunlocked under 100b’s 30-45k overkills and 2hit downed by thieves, taking mesmer damages in dodge or whatever annoys us mostly. Those are the real reason to QQ for, not our changes…

I agree with your post but I agree even more with your tagline… 1000%

Prysin.8542:

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

S/F ele is my current go to pvp build, so between magnetic wave, swirling winds, and a can of super burst, im personally not too worried.

As for other classes, most can probably burst/pressure the ranger enough before it can do too much, especially if they have good gap closers. A thief only has to worry about sic em, but other than that shouldn’t have any trouble whatsoever. Condition necro can also blow it’s burst/CC cooldowns to destroy the LB ranger as most probably don’t have very good condition cleanse. I’d imagine staff/GS shatter mesmer to even have a good chance against them if they juke well with blink and play very offensively.

I feel like longbow ranger will be good against certain other builds though, particularly against more balanced builds with good to moderate survivability that either rely on damage at shorter range or need time to ramp up damage via might stacking, like hambot or DD ele. But in general I feel like other burst builds (with better survival mechanics) will keep rangers under control, of course that’s depending on other changes that happen. That’s just my humble opinion, so don’t take it too seriously. Im just saying that while rangers will be better, many things will give them a run for their money, as far as pvp is concerned. I don’t roam in WvW, so things could be much different there.

There always will be “Chess-Builds”, aka “Rock-Paper-Scissors”, it depends on the Player to reduce failing rate. And sometimes you have to run for your life… that happens.
What I see in WvW is that Ranger users are actually more smart and helpful, sometimes they even survive (with luck) longer than everyone else running on lazy “OP” builds.
When you get downed, who runs to revive you first? Ofc rangers! We know well how bad it is.

Our weakness seems to make us better Players.
And they can not nerf Players itself :P

@RP I literally hate every single post you make. Here is why:

RoyalPredator.9163:

And yet we will been stunlocked under 100b’s 30-45k overkills

A typical WvW build includes 20+ seconds of stability AND 2 stun breakers AND 1 invulnerabilty. And then traits.! That is a normal build. And you can’t deal with one skill that does DoT.

Every post you make is a complaint and something that isn’t even one of the many thing rangers have to complain about. Ranger do have cause to complain. About hundred blades? NO!

nearlight.3064:

Prysin.8542:

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

S/F ele is my current go to pvp build, so between magnetic wave, swirling winds, and a can of super burst, im personally not too worried.

As for other classes, most can probably burst/pressure the ranger enough before it can do too much, especially if they have good gap closers. A thief only has to worry about sic em, but other than that shouldn’t have any trouble whatsoever. Condition necro can also blow it’s burst/CC cooldowns to destroy the LB ranger as most probably don’t have very good condition cleanse. I’d imagine staff/GS shatter mesmer to even have a good chance against them if they juke well with blink and play very offensively.

I feel like longbow ranger will be good against certain other builds though, particularly against more balanced builds with good to moderate survivability that either rely on damage at shorter range or need time to ramp up damage via might stacking, like hambot or DD ele. But in general I feel like other burst builds (with better survival mechanics) will keep rangers under control, of course that’s depending on other changes that happen. That’s just my humble opinion, so don’t take it too seriously. Im just saying that while rangers will be better, many things will give them a run for their money, as far as pvp is concerned. I don’t roam in WvW, so things could be much different there.

Condi classes are nothing even in glassbow with the right build. Empathic bond and healing spring go a really long way. I currently run SoTW on top of that but I don’t need it and will easily give it up for SoS with the changes. Condi necros and engies go down really fast and I can stalemate bunker PU mesmer (sadly can’t kill them if they’re built right and know what they’re doing).

Shatter mes can be bad if they’re skilled, mainly because LB 3 f’s up so much in the middle of a pet/interrupt pile and their lockdown move comes back faster than I can get real distance back. They are mainly a greatsword job but it’s also hard to stay in melee with the good ones.

It is ele that’s my biggest counter due to all the anti projectile/immunity, heals and mobility. Even turret eng with reflect turret is nothing after waiting out a couple of anti projectile shield.

So, what is the purpose of glassbow in PvP?`To tie down the enemy roamer. Make the enemy roamer use time and resources chasing you. This effectively prevents far point captures, and also makes ganking less effective due to the enemy lacking a roamer.

I find this a bit lame since the thief roamer can do this and also usually kill the other roamer. It sounds like you’re not killing thieves and just wasting a bit of time for other inferior roamers which is not that much value.

This is the main problem currently with power ranger roamer..too easily countered by thieves and sometimes eles, however the ele can be tied up in point assault pretty often since LB ranger has better ‘mobility’ which is equal to their mobility and 1500 range for faster rotation.

Bryzy.2719:

So how much are people willing to bet that when the balance patch goes live other professions are going to QQ like mad about Rangers until they force the devs to nerf or remove the buffs?

Like a jealous sibling on christmas day…. “No mummy if I can’t have it then he can’t either!”

I say….nope. Look at some of the changes, and see what they really mean.

Rapid fire for example. It shoots twice as fast now, and it appears like we have a burst skill, but, it just makes it much easier to reflect all damage back to source. Its also easier to dodge more of the attacks now than before. It will still be a hard hitting skill if timed right (and should pretty much down anything if you catch them off guard). The problem is that a lot of Rangers don’t know when to stop attacking at range, and don’t realize that a majority of the damage they just took was because of reflected arrows.

It looks like a buff to some people. To everyone else who took two seconds to think about it instead of “OMG, Ranger BUFF!!!!!”, its not really a big change at all.

Fluffball.8307:

@RP I literally hate every single post you make. …
About hundred blades? NO!

It’s your call. Y’know it’s not 1vs1 in WvW/PvP.
As a Ranger, you may know that you’ll be targeted first, so then, you just can have no enough defense… one will catch you, that’s sure. The only solution right now is to just get out of their focus and forget about you… until you strike.

So, literally you may hate my posts, but I’m sure that I’m right.

Otaking.4675:

nearlight.3064:

Prysin.8542:

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

S/F ele is my current go to pvp build, so between magnetic wave, swirling winds, and a can of super burst, im personally not too worried.

As for other classes, most can probably burst/pressure the ranger enough before it can do too much, especially if they have good gap closers. A thief only has to worry about sic em, but other than that shouldn’t have any trouble whatsoever. Condition necro can also blow it’s burst/CC cooldowns to destroy the LB ranger as most probably don’t have very good condition cleanse. I’d imagine staff/GS shatter mesmer to even have a good chance against them if they juke well with blink and play very offensively.

I feel like longbow ranger will be good against certain other builds though, particularly against more balanced builds with good to moderate survivability that either rely on damage at shorter range or need time to ramp up damage via might stacking, like hambot or DD ele. But in general I feel like other burst builds (with better survival mechanics) will keep rangers under control, of course that’s depending on other changes that happen. That’s just my humble opinion, so don’t take it too seriously. Im just saying that while rangers will be better, many things will give them a run for their money, as far as pvp is concerned. I don’t roam in WvW, so things could be much different there.

Condi classes are nothing even in glassbow with the right build. Empathic bond and healing spring go a really long way. I currently run SoTW on top of that but I don’t need it and will easily give it up for SoS with the changes. Condi necros and engies go down really fast and I can stalemate bunker PU mesmer (sadly can’t kill them if they’re built right and know what they’re doing).

Shatter mes can be bad if they’re skilled, mainly because LB 3 f’s up so much in the middle of a pet/interrupt pile and their lockdown move comes back faster than I can get real distance back. They are mainly a greatsword job but it’s also hard to stay in melee with the good ones.

It is ele that’s my biggest counter due to all the anti projectile/immunity, heals and mobility. Even turret eng with reflect turret is nothing after waiting out a couple of anti projectile shield.

I wasn’t aware that glassbow builds could even afford to take GM condi removal traits so I’ll give you that. But without those traits, if a necro blows it’s marks, spite signet, and chains fears with torment the ranger wouldn’t stand a chance.

PU mesmer isn’t worth mentioning for spvp.

And I’m glad we can agree on ele lol. I’m getting really pumped to reflect rapid fires! The only time I lose to a longbow ranger in recent memory was when I got bunted off of skyhammer. I will be more afraid of axe hybrid might stacking tank builds, unless of course anet shaves the celestial amulet a bit, which could happen.

Well it will effect those of us who play hotjoin most of the time, and yes there is alot of us, probably the biggest playergroup in game on the pvp side. Glasscannon rangers will group up of atleast 2 of them and insta kill everyone at 1500 range. Its the same problem we already have with theifs, it will take away alot of the fun in this game when there is no tactical play anymore. And it will force, the the few of us that actually wants to diversity in specs to play glasscannon, and will kill all spec diversity we have. Atm all specs are pretty mutch even, with bunker slightly underpowered tho.

Otaking.4675:

So, what is the purpose of glassbow in PvP?`To tie down the enemy roamer. Make the enemy roamer use time and resources chasing you. This effectively prevents far point captures, and also makes ganking less effective due to the enemy lacking a roamer.

I find this a bit lame since the thief roamer can do this and also usually kill the other roamer. It sounds like you’re not killing thieves and just wasting a bit of time for other inferior roamers which is not that much value.

This is the main problem currently with power ranger roamer..too easily countered by thieves and sometimes eles, however the ele can be tied up in point assault pretty often since LB ranger has better ‘mobility’ which is equal to their mobility and 1500 range for faster rotation.

man, if thieves “counter” you. Just go L2P.

It is really a L2P thing… i rolled a thief, played it in PvP, in WvW….. for exactly 5 hours in order to figure out the pattern they most commonly use. Thieves are NOT hard to deal with. Not saying every single one of them is gonna fold like a piece of rice-paper, but they are not the hardcounter you think they are.

Lesson 1 in dealing with thieves – LAND THE FIRST HIT. YOU GOT TO HIT THEM FIRST.
Reason: Thieves got low HP and usually bad armor rating. Most of them run a pure damage or condi + damage hybrid. some may run sword + dagger for teleport and evade spam, but even then they are quite predictable.
If they stealth in a DD build, ALWAYS DODGE BACKWARDS. Never forward, never to the sides. ALWAYS BACKWARDS. in 98% of cases you will roll “through” the thief causing him to miss.

Lesson 2: “Read the thief build”
If you run condi or high damage, the most efficient way to “read” a thieves build is to assume full defensive stance and mitigate/outmanouver the thief during the first 2-3 strikes.
If using steal consistently, its most likely a trickery build, and you can risk getting dazed until hell freezes over, stability will be stolen, so dont use RaO or else the thief will steal it and nullify most of your cc. If the thief instantly pops shadow refuge after getting below 70% HP, he is most likely shadow arts with condi cleanse and regen during stealth. Aslong as he stealth, you lose. Use Wolf Fear to get him out of the field ASAP.

Lesson 3: NEVER EVER move in a repetitive pattern. Always move erratically. Try do what you would normally not do. This helps mitigate A LOT of their high powered “filler in” melee attacks. Save your dodges and utilities for when you need em.

Lesson 4: If using troll unguent, activate it BEFORE you drop below 80% HP. against thieves you are more likely to win if you maintain a higher “limit” of HP pool then not. Do not think you can gracefully avoid death at 10% or something crazy like that. If you think you can do that, heartseeker say you can’t. Deal with it. Either keep your HP high as best as you can, or RUN.

Lesson 5: When in trouble, call/move to a friend. That’s it.

Lesson 6: If no nearby friends, find a allied/neutral NPC that you can make the thief hit. Thieves really suck when they get pressured. Just a few moa NPC’s from WvW can really screw over a thief quite badly. Stack the odds against the thief when possible. He/she will only be good at 1v1.

Lesson 7: If thief have basilisk venom loaded, expect a steal + stun combo. Use hunters Shot to stealth then activate RaO, or GS4 block.

Lesson 8: Juke the thief into burning his initiative. Make him use “expensive” skills like Cloak n Dagger, Head Shot, Black Powder in vain. Let him spam it, you will most likely cause the thief to play passively for a few seconds. Thief only maintains the edge if it CAN pressure you, but just like rangers, once pressured it HAS to back down or die.

Lesson 9: If fighting S/X thief, try to remember the location where the thief initially teleported into your face. That is the location he will return to once he take some damage/gonna set up another steal rotation. If you remember the spot – drop a barrage or rapid fire on him as soon as he retreats. It will cause a lot of pressure, may even trigger some bad mistakes that ultimately causes him to die.

Prysin.8542:

Otaking.4675:

So, what is the purpose of glassbow in PvP?`To tie down the enemy roamer. Make the enemy roamer use time and resources chasing you. This effectively prevents far point captures, and also makes ganking less effective due to the enemy lacking a roamer.

I find this a bit lame since the thief roamer can do this and also usually kill the other roamer. It sounds like you’re not killing thieves and just wasting a bit of time for other inferior roamers which is not that much value.

This is the main problem currently with power ranger roamer..too easily countered by thieves and sometimes eles, however the ele can be tied up in point assault pretty often since LB ranger has better ‘mobility’ which is equal to their mobility and 1500 range for faster rotation.

man, if thieves “counter” you. Just go L2P.

It is really a L2P thing… i rolled a thief, played it in PvP, in WvW….. for exactly 5 hours in order to figure out the pattern they most commonly use. Thieves are NOT hard to deal with. Not saying every single one of them is gonna fold like a piece of rice-paper, but they are not the hardcounter you think they are.

Lesson 1 in dealing with thieves – LAND THE FIRST HIT. YOU GOT TO HIT THEM FIRST.
Reason: Thieves got low HP and usually bad armor rating. Most of them run a pure damage or condi + damage hybrid. some may run sword + dagger for teleport and evade spam, but even then they are quite predictable.
If they stealth in a DD build, ALWAYS DODGE BACKWARDS. Never forward, never to the sides. ALWAYS BACKWARDS. in 98% of cases you will roll “through” the thief causing him to miss.

Lesson 2: “Read the thief build”
If you run condi or high damage, the most efficient way to “read” a thieves build is to assume full defensive stance and mitigate/outmanouver the thief during the first 2-3 strikes.
If using steal consistently, its most likely a trickery build, and you can risk getting dazed until hell freezes over, stability will be stolen, so dont use RaO or else the thief will steal it and nullify most of your cc. If the thief instantly pops shadow refuge after getting below 70% HP, he is most likely shadow arts with condi cleanse and regen during stealth. Aslong as he stealth, you lose. Use Wolf Fear to get him out of the field ASAP.

Lesson 3: NEVER EVER move in a repetitive pattern. Always move erratically. Try do what you would normally not do. This helps mitigate A LOT of their high powered “filler in” melee attacks. Save your dodges and utilities for when you need em.

Lesson 4: If using troll unguent, activate it BEFORE you drop below 80% HP. against thieves you are more likely to win if you maintain a higher “limit” of HP pool then not. Do not think you can gracefully avoid death at 10% or something crazy like that. If you think you can do that, heartseeker say you can’t. Deal with it. Either keep your HP high as best as you can, or RUN.

Lesson 5: When in trouble, call/move to a friend. That’s it.

Lesson 6: If no nearby friends, find a allied/neutral NPC that you can make the thief hit. Thieves really suck when they get pressured. Just a few moa NPC’s from WvW can really screw over a thief quite badly. Stack the odds against the thief when possible. He/she will only be good at 1v1.

Lesson 7: If thief have basilisk venom loaded, expect a steal + stun combo. Use hunters Shot to stealth then activate RaO, or GS4 block.

Lesson 8: Juke the thief into burning his initiative. Make him use “expensive” skills like Cloak n Dagger, Head Shot, Black Powder in vain. Let him spam it, you will most likely cause the thief to play passively for a few seconds. Thief only maintains the edge if it CAN pressure you, but just like rangers, once pressured it HAS to back down or die.

Lesson 9: If fighting S/X thief, try to remember the location where the thief initially teleported into your face. That is the location he will return to once he take some damage/gonna set up another steal rotation. If you remember the spot – drop a barrage or rapid fire on him as soon as he retreats. It will cause a lot of pressure, may even trigger some bad mistakes that ultimately causes him to die.

Also use sic em. If you time it well it’s usually a guaranteed kill, especially since its getting buffed after the patch.

Bryzy.2719:

So how much are people willing to bet that when the balance patch goes live other professions are going to QQ like mad about Rangers until they force the devs to nerf or remove the buffs?

Like a jealous sibling on christmas day…. “No if I can’t have it then he can’t either!”

No.
You’re forgetting their number-1 rule for Ranger: They never give it straight up buffing. Everything they change, usually costs us whatever we had left that was workable meaning there’s only ever 1 working build to run at a time.

If Longbow stopped being kitten, 1H sword would be dulled down to Guardian Scepter DPS. If Shortbow was playable in zerg content, Greatsword would take it in the butt. If Ranger was finally able to live up to the condition shedding of its Gw1 predecessor, it would lose all disengages and uptime of Swiftness.

Every Ranger buff is paid for with a pound of flesh b/c they’re STILL not making PvE splits. The single biggest thing everyone cried for that wasn’t specific to the Pet-Mechanic, was PvE effectiveness and they obviously haven’t done that #2 most demanded thing.

That said:
“Along with these improvements, we’ll be updating quite a few weapon skills to improve their base functionality and responsiveness.”
…leaves atleast a shred of hope still for mainhand sword…

we’ve already had our “showcasing”

next up this friday will be between ele, mesmer, guard and necro.

Prysin.8542:

we’ve already had our “showcasing”

next up this friday will be between ele, mesmer, guard and necro.

This Diary was posted today…. August 18, 2014

It specifically says:
“For a more specific preview of our balance changes, please tune in and watch our Ready Up live stream this Friday at 12:00 p.m. PT __ to catch the “Skill Bar,” a new segment that will discuss many upcoming balance changes in detail!”

What info are you operating on that says otherwise?
And why didn’t you link it from the beginning?

http://youtu.be/eVN8qQo3F6Y?list=PLDCvogxNKN3nmdmYoblp6T3Pz44t5bCI4

somewhere near the end

That’s from July 30th…. 2 weeks ago. Are you guys even reading the same page???
I swear everytime I come here, it’s like talking to people who only play Ranger in their imaginations and couldn’t even begin to understand why the vast majority of players quit playing it in the first place….

Don’t get me wrong… those are some cute little buffs I guess, Sic’em & the might-stacking especially. But it’s not the same thing. It’s not a new segment and it did not focus on “base functionality and responsiveness.”. IE: stuff affecting the mainhand sword

can i have your stuff when you quit

Eggyokeo.9705:

can i have your stuff when you quit

If you acknowledge what I’m saying is correct, I’ll let you have some stuff. You want some Deld Ingots? Used up all the Ectos but I’ve got some herbs and other stuff. (no Precursors … that crap’s for shutins)

ilr.9675:

That’s from July 30th…. 2 weeks ago. Are you guys even reading the same page???
I swear everytime I come here, it’s like talking to people who only play Ranger in their imaginations and couldn’t even begin to understand why the vast majority of players quit playing it in the first place….

Don’t get me wrong… those are some cute little buffs I guess, Sic’em & the might-stacking especially. But it’s not the same thing. It’s not a new segment and it did not focus on “base functionality and responsiveness.”. IE: stuff affecting the mainhand sword

There’s 8 professions, so its unlikely that Ranger will get the spotlight again until the next balance….feature….expansion…..bloat…..patch…whatever anet calls it now. And if the sword was going to change, they probably would have said something about it 2 weeks ago. That’s why people brought up the previous stream where Rangers were featured.

The only way we’ll see rangers featured again before september 9th is if the feature pack has some new skills, weapons, pets….anything for the Ranger, and considering Anet’s record of adding new stuff to the game, not likely to happen.

I’ve played s/d, d/d and p/d thief for a few months.

I can kill bad to very good thieves on power ranger and this is a large amount of thieves so it’s not like I’m cherry picking examples to stoke my ego.

When I come across a thief that is as fast and skilled as me however I die. I don’t know about ‘hard counter’ but many of your advice you mention (which I already knew all of, not to be condescending just saying, and I do appreciate the effort to add to the discussion) just doesn’t work when you reduce the response time frame to your reposition and slower attacks vs. the thief mega burst that can stick on you just by spamming 3 and near instant stuff + constant blind. I don’t even have trouble with s/d and p/d anymore really..it’s still a d/p thing which I think the BP nerf will have a decent effect one as above. The extra stun time on GS will help greatly as will the LB autofire. The GS stun is also going to help land stun/maul combos before eles or engies heal for instance.

(esp. wolf fear for a slow attack..stupid wolf takes so long to cast it the thief usually has plenty of benefit from SR no matter what) It’s ranger reposition and slower attacks vs. thief instant TP back to the face and drop a smoke powder on your feet for the umpty millionth time to stack with the TP blind.

Just as one example, even if you land the critical first hit a thief in the middle of TP/steal can still warp to you and apply blind even though he is KD’d. You can’t followup with anything due to blind and you are still right there for the next round of burst.

It is mainly the constant blind spam that cripples our class esp with LB out and I had tried every permutation to mitigate it even as far as melandru runes and blind removal on dodge but the strategies of glassbow and power ranger become too compromised this way and versus all other classes. This is why I say the thief BP nerf will equalize the power roamer field possibly more than anything we’re getting except GS stun.

Yes I have no trouble with condi classes, my version of glassbow is not a stupid noob one with 6/6/x/x but rather 6/0/6/2/0 and ranger rune. 2100ish power 43% cc and enough toughness/healing and condi cleanse from WS line and greatsword cast reduction to boot. I am PVP rank 80 with champion hunter title.

Sic em is still a joke to me against skilled thieves since NPC attacks are so easy to avoid in this game esp when they can blind spam and TP. I will not give up SoH nor LR for Sic em leaving SoS as my current main option and it will just be better with the patch as I add RTW where I don’t run it currently, although I could switch back to SoTW right now and do so I just don’t have many compelling reasons to get rid of a powerful burst trade/stomp protection option that is SoS.

There’s a big difference between roaming and organized group play as well. A lot of the tips listed above work wonders when in a roaming or 1v1 capacity, but when you’re trying to play a Ranger in an organized group things just don’t work like that.

Trying to play the Ranger on the outskirts with the other periphery classes just doesn’t work. You will be trained down by the opposing teams Thieves. All the above advice is awesome until you throw a second Thief into the mix or a Thief + D/D Ele or GS Warrior. And I’m not talking about 2v1 scenarios either. Even in 2v2 or 5v5 the defensive options the class has fall flat and you rely too heavily on your teammates to defend you.

This is why people laugh when they see Rangers in GvG. They’re just too easy to train down and the other periphery classes can do your role while also defending themselves and not being a rally bot.

The burst change is welcome and will certainly help with power rangers while roaming. Still nothing to help them in WvW or GvG imo.

^Agree wholeheartedly. Thief is too deadly especially to pick off low hp glass bows. Stealth is hard to deal with in general when running lb because both Hunters Shot and Point Blank Shot are hard countered by not being able to target a stealthed opponent.

Its not impossible to deal with and in fact is quite manageable in 1v1, but if there are multiple enemies to worry about and your party can’t lock down the Thief or Thieves early then they should destroy you easily.

Atherakhia.4086:

There’s a big difference between roaming and organized group play as well. A lot of the tips listed above work wonders when in a roaming or 1v1 capacity, but when you’re trying to play a Ranger in an organized group things just don’t work like that.

Trying to play the Ranger on the outskirts with the other periphery classes just doesn’t work. You will be trained down by the opposing teams Thieves. All the above advice is awesome until you throw a second Thief into the mix or a Thief + D/D Ele or GS Warrior. And I’m not talking about 2v1 scenarios either. Even in 2v2 or 5v5 the defensive options the class has fall flat and you rely too heavily on your teammates to defend you.

This is why people laugh when they see Rangers in GvG. They’re just too easy to train down and the other periphery classes can do your role while also defending themselves and not being a rally bot.

The burst change is welcome and will certainly help with power rangers while roaming. Still nothing to help them in WvW or GvG imo.

however you contradict yourself slightly too. Because there is a design aspect to bear in mind.
I already gave suggestions to handle thieves. however thieves is designed around the concept of bringing down anyone 1v1. That is their role. 1v1 assassination.

If ONE class is build to destroy anyone 1v1, then 2x of that class SHOULD WIN. If they do not, something is incredibly broken beyond the point of calling it a L2P issue on the thieves end.

If you beat 2 thieves that are at your own skill level, something with your own build is horribly overpowered and you should expect nerfs.