Guild Wars 2

So in HoT there will be core specialisations and elite specialisations. With specialisations really defining how you play I think it would be nice if you only get a pet if you become a beastmaster. If you don’t choose beastmastery you won’t have a pet.

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

Anyone agree?

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Indeed, but that is just the thing. The Ranger in Guild Wars 2 is built completely around having the pet. Therefore they would need to completely rebuild it if they go with the suggestion here.

With the new specialisations coming in HoT and the huge rework of traits and skills I don’t see how it isn’t possible. It makes more sense to tie the pet into the beastmastery traitline.

Of course it is possible. But should they really have focused on rebuilding the whole profession from the ground up, rather than giving it some new stuff? It is highly unlikely that they would do both after all, seeing as that would mean putting way more time and effort into a single profession, which isn’t really all that smart.

Necromancer in PvE is broken and Ranger with pet in PvE is pretty broken as well. I think it’s totally worth it, if it means to fix broken things, especially a core feature which is classes.

But how would it fix the broken thing? You are not fixing the pet by forcing you to use a specific trait to unlock it. You are moving the problem. A fix would be to make the pet better, not to remove it.
The main reason for Necromancers being “broken” in PvE is the condition cap, which is being addressed in HoT.

I think the biggest problem with the beastmastery line is the fact that the greatsword and axe traits are in it. That makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like they ran out of spaces to put them and just threw them randomly into beastmastery.

lordkrall.7241:

Indeed, but that is just the thing. The Ranger in Guild Wars 2 is built completely around having the pet. Therefore they would need to completely rebuild it if they go with the suggestion here.

And that part in bold… that’s where they eff’d up.

Best we can hope for (and by “we” I mean the many that have sounded off in the Ranger subforum and CDI that we don’t want to be shackled to a pet they can’t fix as stated in the CDI) is that an Elite Specialization comes along that replaces the pet mechanic… Like F1-F5 being auroa type buffs instead of companions and those pet stats being handed back over to the new Specialization.

I guess I’m one of those rare people that plays the ranger because it’s a pet class not in spite of it. I actually enjoy watching my pets’ position, health, etc.

I wish they’d just give that greatsword trait baseline. One can hope…

Zoid.2568:

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

The pet mechanic really didn’t work in GW1 either, to be perfectly honest. The only thing that “worked” was the part that you could use a secondary profession to cover up the flaws and not use a pet at all.

Honestly, the simplest “fix” that would make pets at least not a burden would be to reduce AoE damage pets take by something like 75% and make it so that they can’t trigger enemies or structure attacks (like from automated cannons or Nightmare Court blossoms).

The pet is GOING to be stupid as kitten without revamping the entire AI (which will just kitten players off like it did in the first open betas), the only real thing that can be done is to remove the burdening portion of it.

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. I used some pet skills across the Skirmishing/BM line and even in Arah dungeon my pet would regularly be able to heal itself (using a stalker), the healthpool dipped between 33% and 100% – which was totally normal. The pet was very strong, but it’s simply a burden on your trait allocation. I hope that ANet redresses the traits with these changes. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

If you removed a pet from a ranger and locked it behind a 5% nerf, then it would only serve as fair to lock every other profession F1/2/3/4 mechanic behind a nerf.

To me, that would be a terrible move as it would homogenise the professions.

Eponet.4829:

I think the biggest problem with the beastmastery line is the fact that the greatsword and axe traits are in it. That makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like they ran out of spaces to put them and just threw them randomly into beastmastery.

Yeah ranger traits don’t make a load of sense. Traits for axes, greatswords and pets seem to be scattered all over the place – which, in my opinion, is one of the biggest burdens of rolling with a ranger. I hope with specializations they revisit ranger traits and seriously reorganize them in a relevant manner. The only reason I don’t run beast mastery traits on my ranger is because I’m having to invest in Skirmishing for my longbow. Like…why isn’t that in marksmanship?

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

Cuddy.6247:

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

Cool story, bro. Yeah, pet’s suck. That’s why so many complain. Sure, if it was just a few, then we could write them off as bads, but it’s been legions of people complaining in the Ranger subforum and in the CDI over the past 2+ years. You missed the CDI you say? Perhaps you should go read through the 66 pages. And perhaps, while you’re at it, go back through the Ranger subforum and read all the threads about Pet Suckage. They acknowledge it in the CDI and admitted (Jon Peters did if IIRC) they won’t/can’t make them better because they’re tied (meaning they use the same code) to general Mob AI. So, that means they have to be decoupled (use diffrerent code) from Mob AI and they said, again in the CDI, that it would simply be too much work to do that so they will continue to band-aid it. I’m not holding my breath it is going to be any better in HoT…. What I do believe is possible is to have an Elite Specialization that outright replaces our F1-F4 with pet specific buffs. Meaning, you chose a bear for F1 you get toughness buff, jugar for f2 you get a damage buff, etc. That I do see happening… At least I see it happening after certain Devs leave Anet.

lordkrall.7241:

Indeed, but that is just the thing. The Ranger in Guild Wars 2 is built completely around having the pet. Therefore they would need to completely rebuild it if they go with the suggestion here.

This would be the perfect time for them to knuckle down and get it done.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

My pet has never been one-shotted when specced into beast mastery.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Cuddy.6247:

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

Cool story, bro. Yeah, pet’s suck. That’s why so many complain. Sure, if it was just a few, then we could write them off as bads, but it’s been legions of people complaining in the Ranger subforum and in the CDI over the past 2+ years. You missed the CDI you say? Perhaps you should go read through the 66 pages. And perhaps, while you’re at it, go back through the Ranger subforum and read all the threads about Pet Suckage. They acknowledge it in the CDI and admitted (Jon Peters did if IIRC) they won’t/can’t make them better because they’re tied (meaning they use the same code) to general Mob AI. So, that means they have to be decoupled (use diffrerent code) from Mob AI and they said, again in the CDI, that it would simply be too much work to do that so they will continue to band-aid it. I’m not holding my breath it is going to be any better in HoT…. What I do believe is possible is to have an Elite Specialization that outright replaces our F1-F4 with pet specific buffs. Meaning, you chose a bear for F1 you get toughness buff, jugar for f2 you get a damage buff, etc. That I do see happening… At least I see it happening after certain Devs leave Anet.

I’ve specced into beast mastery and even something as fragile as a cat can perform well in Arah or Fractals. People who say pets suck don’t bother allocating any traits for their pet, largely because the traits now (and the preview traits for specializations) are all over the place. ANet needs to redress the placement of traits for rangers to make speccing into Beast Mastery a good thing.

Cuddy.6247:

Eponet.4829:

I think the biggest problem with the beastmastery line is the fact that the greatsword and axe traits are in it. That makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like they ran out of spaces to put them and just threw them randomly into beastmastery.

Yeah ranger traits don’t make a load of sense. Traits for axes, greatswords and pets seem to be scattered all over the place – which, in my opinion, is one of the biggest burdens of rolling with a ranger. I hope with specializations they revisit ranger traits and seriously reorganize them in a relevant manner. The only reason I don’t run beast mastery traits on my ranger is because I’m having to invest in Skirmishing for my longbow. Like…why isn’t that in marksmanship?

Well your longbow traits will be in Marksmanship if the changes go through. But the reason you have your pet traits scattered is because beastmastery isn’t the “pet-only line”. The entire professions is meant to utilize the pet, it’s just the trait lines will do so differently. With Marksmanship, pets will be used to spread vulnerability with opening strikes + crit opening strikes and attack-of-opportunity. Skirmishing is mainly to use pet to apply more conditions and as use as a placed piece to bring more control to the battleground with the help of traps. Wilderness survival, I’d describe as making your pet a battery that you use to supplement your survival; it helps the pet survive more so that you can use the pet to help you survive more. Nature Magic is aimed at general support for a group which involves the pet as well. Beastmastery is more or less a line that alters you and your pet’s attacks to get different tandem results; such as greatsword/spear getting fury on hit that then applies might to pet on crit, gaining quickness for you and your pet on pet swap coupled with faster pet swaps or making your pet an anchor with taunt and natural healing with you command them to attack.

One thing to remember (and not speaking to the quoted poster, but anyone reading this) is that, currently, what builds are defined as with their current trait lines does not apply to the new changes! Just because you have to go into beastmastery for your Greatsword trait doesn’t have the same context as it does now since some of the beastmaster traits are moved/merged and no trait points are associated with said lines. Rather than focus on “sigh, I have to go into this line for that?”, focus on what you can get with the lines you decide to choose…or even better yet, focus on what you are limited to by the 3-line system FIRST and what you sacrifice to obtain those things so that posters can weight the choices and we can make firm criticism about if said choices are weighed properly.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

So anytime a player has to run away to avoid damage, they lose 100% of their damage. What’s your point?

Pets are the Ranger mechanic… of course their traits are going to be all over the place. That’s like complaining about Mesmer having shatter traits all over the place… although some professions that seem to keep most of their professions mechanic traits mainly in one line. Beastmastery does focus on pets…

Many Ranger traits in general (and this also applies to some other professions to a lesser degree IMO) don’t seem to have much rhyme or reason regarding what line they fall in.

Cuddy.6247:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Cuddy.6247:

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

Cool story, bro. Yeah, pet’s suck. That’s why so many complain. Sure, if it was just a few, then we could write them off as bads, but it’s been legions of people complaining in the Ranger subforum and in the CDI over the past 2+ years. You missed the CDI you say? Perhaps you should go read through the 66 pages. And perhaps, while you’re at it, go back through the Ranger subforum and read all the threads about Pet Suckage. They acknowledge it in the CDI and admitted (Jon Peters did if IIRC) they won’t/can’t make them better because they’re tied (meaning they use the same code) to general Mob AI. So, that means they have to be decoupled (use diffrerent code) from Mob AI and they said, again in the CDI, that it would simply be too much work to do that so they will continue to band-aid it. I’m not holding my breath it is going to be any better in HoT…. What I do believe is possible is to have an Elite Specialization that outright replaces our F1-F4 with pet specific buffs. Meaning, you chose a bear for F1 you get toughness buff, jugar for f2 you get a damage buff, etc. That I do see happening… At least I see it happening after certain Devs leave Anet.

I’ve specced into beast mastery and even something as fragile as a cat can perform well in Arah or Fractals. People who say pets suck don’t bother allocating any traits for their pet, largely because the traits now (and the preview traits for specializations) are all over the place. ANet needs to redress the placement of traits for rangers to make speccing into Beast Mastery a good thing.

I’ve specced into it as well then I was immediately disappointed and I was slower to kill things when I did, hence why I do not use it. I mean, the point of the game is to get the healthbar of something as fast as possible. I have fun completing that goal quickly. I guess your definition of “preform well” resides solely on the pet surviving. For pets to meet my requirements of “preform well” I need the AI to basically know exactly what I want it to do. I need the pet to know where to stand to attack, not run through AOE like they’re mentally challenged, and know how to path correctly… which is impossible no matter how many points I put into the BM line. Besides, I shouldn’t have to triat 6 pts into a line to make the profession mechanic not suck. That is unacceptable. If I chose to put 6 pts into the BM that should make the pets amazing, but it doesn’t. It simply makes them somewhat acceptable. I guess you’re easily pleased with the pets. I am not.

The synergy of the pet and ranger in GW1 was much better. Most ranger skills that affected the ranger also affected the pet and you also had more CC, but pet was mostly a PvP thing in GW1 but it was viable in PvE if you had the right build. No build in GW2 makes the pet viable in PvE unless you do solo content or very small scale content. If you go into dungeons, WvW or large events pets are almost useless.

I don’t know why the pet exist in PvE. Either buff it’s defense and synergy with the ranger by a lot or just make it a SPvP thing.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Why don’t you just go play a warrior and leave us to our pets.

I’ve got one, thanks. I use it quite frequently when party composition calls for it. Perhaps you should have one too for when the situation calls for it. Maybe then you’d know playing a Warrior is absolutely nothing like playing a sword bearing Ranger…

Zoid.2568:

No build in GW2 makes the pet viable in PvE unless you do solo content or very small scale content.

Then that’s not “no build makes the pet viable in PvE” if it does work in some circumstances.

Zoid.2568:

If you go into dungeons, WvW or large events pets are almost useless.

I’d qualify dungeons as “small scale content” since it’s only 5 or less individual players. Also, there is small scale WvW (zerg WvW feels practically pointless to me and invalidates a lot of playstyles, not only Rangers’ pets). So that narrows down your list of “not viable in [insert circumstance]” down to large scale events (again, mostly faceroll and “move here to not accomplish [insert task]”) and large scale WvW.

Zoid.2568:

I don’t know why the pet exist in PvE. Either buff it’s defense and synergy with the ranger by a lot or just make it a SPvP thing.

They did that already. Pets are, to me at least, dang near immoral except in extreme cases in fractals. Even if they do die or almost die, you can simply swap them for your other pet.

Sure, pets have their problems, their AI make them make annoying decisions/mistakes, but that’s far different from being “useless” or “not viable”.

Elorna.5329:

I guess I’m one of those rare people that plays the ranger because it’s a pet class not in spite of it. I actually enjoy watching my pets’ position, health, etc.

There’s not much to watch about it when you are meleeing a boss or in a melee train of a zerg and your pet gets mowed down by casual cleave and there’s not much you can do about it since telling the pet to come back to you in melee changes nothing it’s still in cleaving range. You can use a ranged pet but ranged pet AI is awful, the pet constantly decides not to stick to its actual 900 range but prefers to path over close to mobs or stand closer in some lethal aoe circle.

That doesn’t mention the fact ranged pets don’t cleave, do significantly less damage than a jaguar or even drake, and their f2 skill is generally of limited utility (the spider’s root has a delay in activating as it’s queued to its next attack and and the devourer’s barrage is plain useless).

Trust me, I have my hall of monument pets, I really love pet classes in MMO’s when they are done right (WoW pets with aoe avoidance and stats shared with master, for example).

But in this game pets were done pretty badly.

Leo G.4501:

Zoid.2568:

I don’t know why the pet exist in PvE. Either buff it’s defense and synergy with the ranger by a lot or just make it a SPvP thing.

They did that already. Pets are, to me at least, dang near immoral except in extreme cases in fractals. Even if they do die or almost die, you can simply swap them for your other pet.

Sure, pets have their problems, their AI make them make annoying decisions/mistakes, but that’s far different from being “useless” or “not viable”.

I want to see a video of your immortal jaguars on fractal 50 mossman, archdiviner, or molten duo/mai trin.

You’re probably using drakes then, which is a DPS loss, and the drakes even die still to the aoe spam in molten duo so you’re probably resorting to bears in some instances and bear autoattacks do less damage than a single burning condition tick.

And that’s not even opening the whole can of worms that is large scale WvW.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Why don’t you just go play a warrior and leave us to our pets.

I’ve got one, thanks. I use it quite frequently when party composition calls for it. Perhaps you should have one too for when the situation calls for it. Maybe then you’d know playing a Warrior is absolutely nothing like playing a sword bearing Ranger…

I have all classes except Necro. Didn’t like it. There is no situation in which I would need a warrior that I couldn’t play my Ranger. You seem to like to 1111111 with sword, which is very like Warrior GS, except they press 2 a bit also. If you don’t like micromanaging pets in order to keep them alive (which is not that hard really), this is the wrong class, maybe Thief would suit you better.

Cuddy.6247:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

My pet has never been one-shotted when specced into beast mastery.

And mine always is when fully spec’d into beast mastery.

Only one of our statements can be true, and I know yours is not, that is unless your using the beloved brown bear, in which case, if your lucky, it may take 2-3. Or the other scenario where your pulling your pet in and out of battle, in which case your proving everyone’s point. The pet is ineffective when sitting by your side.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Why don’t you just go play a warrior and leave us to our pets.

I’ve got one, thanks. I use it quite frequently when party composition calls for it. Perhaps you should have one too for when the situation calls for it. Maybe then you’d know playing a Warrior is absolutely nothing like playing a sword bearing Ranger…

I have all classes except Necro. Didn’t like it. There is no situation in which I would need a warrior that I couldn’t play my Ranger. You seem to like to 1111111 with sword, which is very like Warrior GS, except they press 2 a bit also. If you don’t like micromanaging pets in order to keep them alive (which is not that hard really), this is the wrong class, maybe Thief would suit you better.

Ah. “Seem” is the critical word. I like to kill things as fast as possible, and with Ranger that means, “11111” as you put it, with the sword and a cat pet. Since we are the much longer portion of DPS between the two damage modifiers on Ranger make killing things go faster since the pet isn’t smart enough to position properly and is much slower to attack. And I would think since you have a warrior you would know that Warrior MH Sword or GS plays nothing like Ranger sword. “Seems” silly to me that you don’t know the differences between Ranger sword and Warrior Sword/GS.

I’ve stated above the closest that comes to it is Thief s+d and d+d but they just aren’t as fun as the Ranger.

I can micromanage just fine and I could do it ever better if I had more control and customize options on the pet, but I don’t. Since I melee most the time and use melee pets that can’t dodge like I can, they die faster since if you press F3 they just stand next to you and get cleaved to death.

You on NA? Can you run lvl 50 fractal? Next time I’m home and running a 50 you can join in and see for yourself. Come, come! Melee Archdiviner with me

Leo G.4501:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

So anytime a player has to run away to avoid damage, they lose 100% of their damage. What’s your point?

Players shouldn’t be running away, so your point is invalid.

^Well when you’re dodging, you’re technically not DPSing.

Ive said this in other threads, will repeat:

Pet functionality is becoming less dependent on connecting with a single target and more about pbaoe effects tied to the f2. This will ensure pets have a type of cleave effect and miss less overall.

That being said, I think I’ll enjoy pets using various specs. Some pets need f2 buffs or revamps but many will be very usable.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Leo G.4501:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Cuddy.6247:

Zoid.2568:

lordkrall.7241:

Zoid.2568:

Example
The first minor trait in Beastmastery could be something like: Sacrifice 5% of your damage and gain the ability to use a pet.

So basically make the profession extremely weak unless they trait a specific line?
The ranger is built around having access to the pet. Locking that behind a specific trait would require a complete rebuild of the whole profession.

To gain a pet you would need to sacrifice something else. You’re not weak without the pet, it only defines your playstyle. A lot of people have complained about the pet for over 2 years and the AI for pets sucks. In GW1 the ranger was much more ideal and the pet system there actually worked.

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

So anytime a player has to run away to avoid damage, they lose 100% of their damage. What’s your point?

Players shouldn’t be running away, so your point is invalid.

Shouldn’t is the key word. Put that in the same context as the pet.

Zenith.7301:

Elorna.5329:

I guess I’m one of those rare people that plays the ranger because it’s a pet class not in spite of it. I actually enjoy watching my pets’ position, health, etc.

There’s not much to watch about it when you are meleeing a boss or in a melee train of a zerg and your pet gets mowed down by casual cleave and there’s not much you can do about it since telling the pet to come back to you in melee changes nothing it’s still in cleaving range. You can use a ranged pet but ranged pet AI is awful, the pet constantly decides not to stick to its actual 900 range but prefers to path over close to mobs or stand closer in some lethal aoe circle.

That doesn’t mention the fact ranged pets don’t cleave, do significantly less damage than a jaguar or even drake, and their f2 skill is generally of limited utility (the spider’s root has a delay in activating as it’s queued to its next attack and and the devourer’s barrage is plain useless).

Trust me, I have my hall of monument pets, I really love pet classes in MMO’s when they are done right (WoW pets with aoe avoidance and stats shared with master, for example).

But in this game pets were done pretty badly.

Leo G.4501:

Zoid.2568:

I don’t know why the pet exist in PvE. Either buff it’s defense and synergy with the ranger by a lot or just make it a SPvP thing.

They did that already. Pets are, to me at least, dang near immoral except in extreme cases in fractals. Even if they do die or almost die, you can simply swap them for your other pet.

Sure, pets have their problems, their AI make them make annoying decisions/mistakes, but that’s far different from being “useless” or “not viable”.

I want to see a video of your immortal jaguars on fractal 50 mossman, archdiviner, or molten duo/mai trin.

You’re probably using drakes then, which is a DPS loss, and the drakes even die still to the aoe spam in molten duo so you’re probably resorting to bears in some instances and bear autoattacks do less damage than a single burning condition tick.

And that’s not even opening the whole can of worms that is large scale WvW.

I agree on the high level fractal note, but in most other dungeons the pet rarely, if ever, dies.

As far as WvW goes, I’d say that any ranger main looking to be a “serious” WvW player should find a guild focused on roaming groups. The pets are very helpful/borderline OP for that.

Zerging in general is just the opposite of fun imo, the pets dying there is just another aspect of the overall boring gameplay. I guess you could use the brown bear and wolf as AoE cleanse and emergency fear tools, keeping them on passive while you pew pew pirate ship around with the blob. But as I already mentioned no matter what you do and regardless of the profession you play, zerging just won’t be a ton of fun.

It’s seriously not hard to keep your pet alive in any encounter.

chemiclord.3978:

The pet mechanic really didn’t work in GW1 either, to be perfectly honest. The only thing that “worked” was the part that you could use a secondary profession to cover up the flaws and not use a pet at all.

So, so wrong. You obviously never played a full BM build in GW1, if you did it was garbage. My Dire Wolf was doing 200+ damage per hit. Not a typo.

DeadlySynz.3471:

And mine always is when fully spec’d into beast mastery.

Only one of our statements can be true, and I know yours is not, that is unless your using the beloved brown bear, in which case, if your lucky, it may take 2-3. Or the other scenario where your pulling your pet in and out of battle, in which case your proving everyone’s point. The pet is ineffective when sitting by your side.

Impossible. Unless you have no clue what you are doing or are just plain lying. Use a different pet and learn to swap, they rarely get one shot, its always multiple hits.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

“Seems” silly to me that you don’t know the differences between Ranger sword and Warrior Sword/GS….

…I can micromanage just fine and I could do it ever better if I had more control and customize options on the pet, but I don’t. Since I melee most the time and use melee pets that can’t dodge like I can, they die faster since if you press F3 they just stand next to you and get cleaved to death…

You on NA? Can you run lvl 50 fractal? Next time I’m home and running a 50 you can join in and see for yourself. Come, come! Melee Archdiviner with me

Errr, Ranger and War weapons have zero in common, why would you even suggest that? Point being, if you want to just AA damage things to death and not use a pet, why play ranger?

I play dungeons too and almost always use melee there, but my pets don’t die. Know why? I choose pets suitable to the situation (never bears) and swap on specific timing.

Meleeing Arch is stupid when you can just swap traits and LB him with a devourer pet (that NEVER dies there). Since that does very close to the same damage yet has little risk. Your own fault for making it harder than it needs to be.

No.

ANet have said they won’t drop the pet from the Ranger. How bout they upgrade the pet AI with the BM tree?

Normal dumb pet without BM or smarter pet with BM.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Cuddy.6247:

Pets don’t suck. Ranger players, on the other hand, do. With specializations it will be easier to spec into Beast Mastery line. Anyone who’s ever kittened about their pet has obviously never specced 6 into Beast Mastery and saw the results of giving love to your pet. Or they refuse to use the Heel/Stow function in trying to manage combat/ooc scenarios.

Cool story, bro. Yeah, pet’s suck. That’s why so many complain. Sure, if it was just a few, then we could write them off as bads, but it’s been legions of people complaining in the Ranger subforum and in the CDI over the past 2+ years. You missed the CDI you say? Perhaps you should go read through the 66 pages. And perhaps, while you’re at it, go back through the Ranger subforum and read all the threads about Pet Suckage. They acknowledge it in the CDI and admitted (Jon Peters did if IIRC) they won’t/can’t make them better because they’re tied (meaning they use the same code) to general Mob AI. So, that means they have to be decoupled (use diffrerent code) from Mob AI and they said, again in the CDI, that it would simply be too much work to do that so they will continue to band-aid it. I’m not holding my breath it is going to be any better in HoT…. What I do believe is possible is to have an Elite Specialization that outright replaces our F1-F4 with pet specific buffs. Meaning, you chose a bear for F1 you get toughness buff, jugar for f2 you get a damage buff, etc. That I do see happening… At least I see it happening after certain Devs leave Anet.

Surely all they need to do is give (all of) them more vitality and/or toughness and a little more self healing?

I would say give the ranger a heal pet ability, instead of upping the pet’s self heal, but I’m not sure where you would put it, with the current set-up?

Then we could choose which pet we wanted to use based on preference and/or the other abilities it brings; rather than either bringing a tanking pet, constantly, or just expecting pets to die, almost immediately.

It’s all very well saying remove the pet entirely, or limit it only to the BM line, but the former would upset a lot of people who chose ranger for the pet and the latter would just force all rangers, who like pets, to spec BM and would also mean the devs probably wouldn’t even bother to try to improve pets.

As it would be too tempting to just sweep BM and its pet under the proverbial carpet…

BM should give you an even stronger pet, on top of the perfectly adequate pet that the other specs/traitlines should give you.

It shouldn’t be the only way to have a decent pet, let alone the only way to have a pet, at all.

Of course, in WoW, they have reduced damage from AOE effects (and hunter has both Heal Pet and Revive Pet).

That is really what they should have in this game, too.

But, upping their general resilience and healing ability would still help a lot.

lordkrall.7241:

Of course it is possible. But should they really have focused on rebuilding the whole profession from the ground up, rather than giving it some new stuff? It is highly unlikely that they would do both after all, seeing as that would mean putting way more time and effort into a single profession, which isn’t really all that smart.

Actually, it kind of is, in the case of a class like hunter/ranger, as (from what I understand) they are the most attractive first class for new players (mainly because of the pet).

More (happy) new players, presumably = more money for ANet.

Elorna.5329:

Zenith.7301:

Elorna.5329:

I guess I’m one of those rare people that plays the ranger because it’s a pet class not in spite of it. I actually enjoy watching my pets’ position, health, etc.

There’s not much to watch about it when you are meleeing a boss or in a melee train of a zerg and your pet gets mowed down by casual cleave and there’s not much you can do about it since telling the pet to come back to you in melee changes nothing it’s still in cleaving range. You can use a ranged pet but ranged pet AI is awful, the pet constantly decides not to stick to its actual 900 range but prefers to path over close to mobs or stand closer in some lethal aoe circle.

That doesn’t mention the fact ranged pets don’t cleave, do significantly less damage than a jaguar or even drake, and their f2 skill is generally of limited utility (the spider’s root has a delay in activating as it’s queued to its next attack and and the devourer’s barrage is plain useless).

Trust me, I have my hall of monument pets, I really love pet classes in MMO’s when they are done right (WoW pets with aoe avoidance and stats shared with master, for example).

But in this game pets were done pretty badly.

Leo G.4501:

Zoid.2568:

I don’t know why the pet exist in PvE. Either buff it’s defense and synergy with the ranger by a lot or just make it a SPvP thing.

They did that already. Pets are, to me at least, dang near immoral except in extreme cases in fractals. Even if they do die or almost die, you can simply swap them for your other pet.

Sure, pets have their problems, their AI make them make annoying decisions/mistakes, but that’s far different from being “useless” or “not viable”.

I want to see a video of your immortal jaguars on fractal 50 mossman, archdiviner, or molten duo/mai trin.

You’re probably using drakes then, which is a DPS loss, and the drakes even die still to the aoe spam in molten duo so you’re probably resorting to bears in some instances and bear autoattacks do less damage than a single burning condition tick.

And that’s not even opening the whole can of worms that is large scale WvW.

I agree on the high level fractal note, but in most other dungeons the pet rarely, if ever, dies.

As far as WvW goes, I’d say that any ranger main looking to be a “serious” WvW player should find a guild focused on roaming groups. The pets are very helpful/borderline OP for that.

Zerging in general is just the opposite of fun imo, the pets dying there is just another aspect of the overall boring gameplay. I guess you could use the brown bear and wolf as AoE cleanse and emergency fear tools, keeping them on passive while you pew pew pirate ship around with the blob. But as I already mentioned no matter what you do and regardless of the profession you play, zerging just won’t be a ton of fun.

Lol I wouldn’t even bother trying to argue with them. I mean, I specifically mentioned the exceptions of zerg wvw and high fractals as the weakness of Ranger pets and he still brings it up. In most other situations, it’s not hard to keep a pet alive and if things go that sour, swap pets, heal them, use some utilities. If a weak sustain zerker can manage to survive a boss for 1min or less, you must be bad that your pet can’t do the same when they have more hp, your utilities to support them and the ability to full heal them (aka pet swap).

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It’s seriously not hard to keep your pet alive in any encounter.

chemiclord.3978:

The pet mechanic really didn’t work in GW1 either, to be perfectly honest. The only thing that “worked” was the part that you could use a secondary profession to cover up the flaws and not use a pet at all.

So, so wrong. You obviously never played a full BM build in GW1, if you did it was garbage. My Dire Wolf was doing 200+ damage per hit. Not a typo.

DeadlySynz.3471:

And mine always is when fully spec’d into beast mastery.

Only one of our statements can be true, and I know yours is not, that is unless your using the beloved brown bear, in which case, if your lucky, it may take 2-3. Or the other scenario where your pulling your pet in and out of battle, in which case your proving everyone’s point. The pet is ineffective when sitting by your side.

Impossible. Unless you have no clue what you are doing or are just plain lying. Use a different pet and learn to swap, they rarely get one shot, its always multiple hits.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

“Seems” silly to me that you don’t know the differences between Ranger sword and Warrior Sword/GS….

…I can micromanage just fine and I could do it ever better if I had more control and customize options on the pet, but I don’t. Since I melee most the time and use melee pets that can’t dodge like I can, they die faster since if you press F3 they just stand next to you and get cleaved to death…

You on NA? Can you run lvl 50 fractal? Next time I’m home and running a 50 you can join in and see for yourself. Come, come! Melee Archdiviner with me

Errr, Ranger and War weapons have zero in common, why would you even suggest that? Point being, if you want to just AA damage things to death and not use a pet, why play ranger?

I play dungeons too and almost always use melee there, but my pets don’t die. Know why? I choose pets suitable to the situation (never bears) and swap on specific timing.

Meleeing Arch is stupid when you can just swap traits and LB him with a devourer pet (that NEVER dies there). Since that does very close to the same damage yet has little risk. Your own fault for making it harder than it needs to be.

You suggested playing Warrior instead which was silly because they are too different in weapon style to be considered remotely similar. One would only make such a stupid statement if they didn’t know they difference between playing a melee Ranger and melee Warrior. But it’s cool, bro. Have at it.

Your pets don’t die? Guess you’re using crap ranged pets. And yes, their DPS is bad and will always be bad.

Like I said, come do a level 50 fractal with me. I melee Archdiviner much of the time. Why? Because I can, even drunk. Can you not? I guess not… Can you even fractal 50, bro? And no, your LB + devour isn’t doing near the damage melee + jag is doing. Deal with it.

Ranger are the pet class in Gw2 if you pick ranger hoping to play without your pet, you picked the wrong class. No class can play without their class mechanic. How well u use it is up to you.

Yes people complain about pets that doesn’t make it the majority of rangers (keep in mind ranger are like the second most created class.)

For me pets are a weapon. The Gs and axe needn’t be in this line. Beast master have two other lines they can spec into making it easy to be power or condi, ranged or melee viable with the ability to spec into any weapon include staff when druids comes out whether it be a power or condi weapon.

I don’t see bm line being the go to line (at least not for the pets). Yes there a build for it but we had bm builds even when pets were made of tissue.

So I don’t agree and think the bm line needs to be re-evaluated.

Beastmastery:

I would suggest putting back Pet Attributes bonus into the line. Perhaps it is to be done so by tieing the bonus with each of the Minor Traits.

Alternatively, something that I wish to see is to allow Sigil, Rune and/or pieces of armour be used in pets IF the Ranger is specialising into Beastmastery.

Whichever ways, pets should take a more prominent role for someone who is into the BM line.

DeadlySynz.3471:

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

I take 6 in beast mastery and Natural Healing on several of my rangers (including the one that I exclusively do dungeons/fractals with), and my pets very seldom die unless I get careless and don’t pay attention to their HP.

I like having the axe and greatsword traits in beast mastery (I generally run axe/horn and greatsword in dungeons), if only the greatsword trait wasn’t in the same tier as Natural Healing.

Could pet AI be improved? Yes.
Will default 30% movespeed help alleviate some of the issues with this? Yes. Many of you against pets have even admitted this in previous threads.

That aside, this thread makes me sad. Both sides of the debate are just spewing opinions back and forth with very few real, meaningful facts :-/ Your egos are all getting into this.

Discuss the facts, please. Otherwise, you’re getting nowhere.

Nice little fact. Even without AI improvements, pets are quite likely to be getting a buff with the Specialization system as all classes are being compensated for their class specific traits (Life Force, Attunement CD, Shatter CD, etc.) no longer being available from traits. Beastmastery points fall into this category.

If you look at the new baseline for Ele Attunement CDs, it looks to be around the same as if they had put 15 to 20 points in Arcane. So it is fairly safe to assume that Ranger pets will get the same … which would mean pets would be getting 150 to 200 extra Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality.

One can hope that perhaps they’ll use this as an opportunity to also have it give them the rest of the stats that Celestial would give us (like Ferocity and Condition Damage).

TheFantasticGman.9451:

You suggested playing Warrior instead which was silly because they are too different in weapon style to be considered remotely similar. One would only make such a stupid statement if they didn’t know they difference between playing a melee Ranger and melee Warrior. But it’s cool, bro. Have at it.

Your pets don’t die? Guess you’re using crap ranged pets. And yes, their DPS is bad and will always be bad.

Like I said, come do a level 50 fractal with me. I melee Archdiviner much of the time. Why? Because I can, even drunk. Can you not? I guess not… Can you even fractal 50, bro? And no, your LB + devour isn’t doing near the damage melee + jag is doing. Deal with it.

I suggested playing warrior (that post was deleted by mods actually) because you said you couldn’t keep pets alive, since they are the class mechanic, its really not playing the class to its fullest. I just don’t get why people would want to play a Ranger and not like pets, its like having a Guard and not liking or using the Virtues.

I do use Devourers for Archdiviner, they never ever die, like I said. But a lot of the time I’ll use drakes if the encounter is difficult. In regular dungons, I’ll run with Stalker/Jag though. A lot of the time, ranged pets are not suitable because you want to stack, obviously.

My Devourer is doing way more damage than your dead jag. Dealt.

Actually, I never said I couldn’t keep pets alive. Feel free to reread my posts. I said they die faster in melee, which is true. Not to mention just because you don’t get why people like to play Ranger without the pet doesn’t mean anything. If I was a betting man I’d wager there are players that play Guardian and don’t want to use Virtues. To repeat myself: I can micro manage my pets just fine. If you want to see for yourself, please feel free to come run a lvl 50 fract with me.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

DeadlySynz.3471:

In PvP this is true; however, in PvE and WvW this is not. PvE bosses could care less whether your pet has 6 into BM, they’ll one shot them none the less. The same goes with WvW zergs, the pet is mere cannon fodder. Remember, any time you have to call your pet back to avoid damage, your losing “40%” of your damage. That is why they suck.

I take 6 in beast mastery and Natural Healing on several of my rangers (including the one that I exclusively do dungeons/fractals with), and my pets very seldom die unless I get careless and don’t pay attention to their HP.

I like having the axe and greatsword traits in beast mastery (I generally run axe/horn and greatsword in dungeons), if only the greatsword trait wasn’t in the same tier as Natural Healing.

I also take 6 in BM, because I played BM hunter in WoW (so, wanted to stick with that, partly to compare) and my pets still die way too fast.

I don’t really do dungeons, anymore (didn’t enjoy the way the game design makes most people play them, or some people’s attitudes), but anything except the tankier pets still die(d) way too easily to even bother with (aside from for initial buffs), in both dungeons and WvW.

I just use drakes in WvW.