Guild Wars 2

Using a legal damage meter (doesn’t break terms of service) I looked at my ranger’s damage over a decent period of time (several minutes). Simply put I was capping out at just a little over 5k dps. This isn’t enough to bring it to raids by its own. With frost spirit, sun spirit, and spotter ranger is just barely acceptable, but base ranger damage is not enough to kill the first boss with in the enrage timer. Don’t bring ranger outside of druid, and don’t play ranger in raids. I’m saying this as long time ranger main. Condi ranger basically isn’t any better either.

Good thing there is no real damage meter in the game based off a API. That and that there is no inspect feature.

Boss lives or dies by team work. Nothing else matters.

Ranger isn’t dead but maybe the player behind the keyboard is asleep at the keys. Friends don’t let friends drink and raid…

Too bad there actually is a decent damage meter that has been checked manually by several people. If you go into a raid you need to be bringing your full support. Simply put you CAN’T do that on ranger.

Then re-roll. Just don’t come here posting nonsense when people are doing fine with rangers. Just saying, maybe it is just you?

Balsalom.7218:

Too bad there actually is a decent damage meter that has been checked manually by several people. If you go into a raid you need to be bringing your full support. Simply put you CAN’T do that on ranger.

Are you talking about the one that was discussed on Reddit?

He wasn’t clear Friendly – but regardless, there is no inherent damage meter via the API. Scraping a window isn’t going to be exact not to mention the latency / lag.

Is the question about other classes doing more damage or that you can’t get past the first boss if your group has a ranger. In either case, not all classes are equal and many people, PUGS even, have passed the first boss with rangers pew pew’ing. I don’t understand.

Anyone tried Condi Ranger yet on Sabitha or Gor? Thinking the stationary and bigger hit box, respectively, a (condi) Ranger would fare better there.

The damage meter is the one that was posted about on Reddit. It isn’t perfect but it is within about 5-10% of the real value. The issue isn’t about people being able to clear the first boss, who is relatively easy. What I’m saying is that it gets harder. Don’t bring ranger if you want a decent time. They simply just don’t do enough damage to warrant bringing them.

Condi ranger on gors might work ok, but in general you really shouldn’t be bringing this class to raids after the first boss.

Balsalom.7218:

The damage meter is the one that was posted about on Reddit. It isn’t perfect but it is within about 5-10% of the real value. The issue isn’t about people being able to clear the first boss, who is relatively easy. What I’m saying is that it gets harder. Don’t bring ranger if you want a decent time. They simply just don’t do enough damage to warrant bringing them.

Ok, let me retract my @sshat attitude since you clarified a bit more. Yes, Raid content gets harder. Let us talk about time though and the ranger.

Just so I am not putting words into your mouth – are you saying that if you want to get further along in the content to “not” bring a ranger? Because their DPS is low and that loss increases the time to kill. Therefore putting the raid into the enrage timer window?

Crapgame.6519:

Balsalom.7218:

The damage meter is the one that was posted about on Reddit. It isn’t perfect but it is within about 5-10% of the real value. The issue isn’t about people being able to clear the first boss, who is relatively easy. What I’m saying is that it gets harder. Don’t bring ranger if you want a decent time. They simply just don’t do enough damage to warrant bringing them.

Ok, let me retract my @sshat attitude since you clarified a bit more. Yes, Raid content gets harder. Let us talk about time though and the ranger.

Just so I am not putting words into your mouth – are you saying that if you want to get further along in the content to “not” bring a ranger? Because their DPS is low and that loss increases the time to kill. Therefore putting the raid into the enrage timer window?

Go read up on it, no way what he is saying is true at all. Given how that damage meter works, assigning a static value of correctness across all professions [the 10%-15%] should have been a red flag.

Dps calculation don’t mean anything if the method for those calculation are not clear. To say don’t bring a ranger if you want good dps is plain bs.

Was the pet damage included (which pet), did you have 25 stacks of might. Did you use spotter and frost spirite. Did you include the druid damage buff. What weapon did you use. Vs what target. What class are you using as a damage comparison.

Rangers bring a number of unique buffs and while their personal dps isn’t the best (nor the worst) their ability to bump the groups dps out weights any short commings they have.

I have used the jaxnx dps meter quite a lot and yes… It is enlightening. Although this meter is innacurate it gives a general sense… Condi ranger on a target golem does about 6-6.k dps with brief spikes up to 7. Power ranger is simply abysmal at around 5k. I’m sure others will get this higher, as i don’t claim to be amazing. This is vs a stationary target with no outside buffs and raid builds (none of that stupid self might stacking) which maximizes condi and power dps. Compare this to a condi zerker which can maintain 10k dps vs a golem with a much much easier rotation or rev that can do 9 with auto attacks.

Imho power ranger DPS is so pathetic there’s no point in bring it to raidz at all. I’ve also run condi druid against VG and noticed some things. Dps in phase 1 is good, as the boss doesn’t move. Your dps is still lower than other condi classes ofc, but you can pump out GoL quite often and make use of spirits. Is this good enough to make up for lower personal dps vs another condi class? vs a straight condi ranger? I have no idea.

In the split red boss is basically anti condi. Pet can’t do dps and you have less people to buff. Condi druid also has no cc….

After this the boss moves around and your dps tanks. You can still maintain decent GoL uptime.

Overall i think a well played condi druid is viable for VG but not optimal. remember that if you have a healing druid they’ll also have spotter and spirits. I believe the bugs with them are fixed now for what it’s worth.

As for gorseval…. There’s no point in bringing any dps ranger when other classes can do so much more dmg with much easier rotations. The timer is tighter and you need to bring more damage. Stacking is also easier as there’s fewer mechanjcs to split people which makes the healing druid’s buffing and healing easier to distribute, so the second druid is less necessary. Why bring a condi ranger when you can take a condi warr that does more dps and is easier to play? 20k dps on the meter vs gorse on my first day with condi warr essentially spamming zerk mode and lonbow skills… I will get that even higher easily. Why bring power ranger when literally everything else is better?

Imho ranger is in sad state. We have revs that dish out 13k autos and condi classes pumping out 20k bleed and burn ticks with much more forgiving rotations than ranger. Healing druids are destined to become obsolete when raids get to farm status and druid continues to be the most nerfed class.

PS 23k RF is not strong when other class can do itthat dps in two autoattacks in 2s.

First, when I said 5-10% I was talking about the ranger in specific. The first wing is doable with a ranger but I wouldn’t bring them if possible. It’s better to bring a class than can do actual damage. Take necro’s for example. Condi necro can do 10+k dps at range. The ranger’s spirits and spotter don’t make up for their terrible dps.

Druid seems to be the only thing ranger has to make it competitive in PvE. Neither its physical damage, condition damage, or (outside of healing druid) support can match what other professions have access to.

And then there’s the matter of how few areas the Druid is competitive in. You’ve got raids, a few specific fractal levels, and that’s it.

TL;DR ranger is competitive in less than 1% of PvE.

Bri.8354:

Druid seems to be the only thing ranger has to make it competitive in PvE.

This. Core Ranger doesn’t cut it anymore as we’re mostly wanted for buffs/heals as Druids for most things, if even that. I really hope that someday this profession gets some adjustments in the future to be more than buff/heal support in parties.

Core ranger does better than 5k dps, it always has and only 6k is required per participant to beat the bosses on average. unless that screen scraper is also taking into account the team dps with and without the ranger you’re not seeing what the ranger brings in addition to personal dps. Druid is a (edit: personal )DPS loss in anyway that you spin it so if you’re going to take druid you might as well be the team healer, if you want to play as dps stick with ranger or move to something else.

The thing that has moved me away from ranger for the time being is the fact that I don’t like the mechanics of druid, if its an issue of not wanting to heal then don’t and switch professions like I did.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Dps calculation don’t mean anything if the method for those calculation are not clear. To say don’t bring a ranger if you want good dps is plain bs.

Was the pet damage included (which pet), did you have 25 stacks of might. Did you use spotter and frost spirite. Did you include the druid damage buff. What weapon did you use. Vs what target. What class are you using as a damage comparison.

Rangers bring a number of unique buffs and while their personal dps isn’t the best (nor the worst) their ability to bump the groups dps out weights any short commings they have.

Having a class that increases party DPS by 30% in addition to dealing nice damage (not the highest but definitely not the lowest) is seemly not enough to people.

For demonstration, my DPS on a PvP gollem (with much higher toughness than Raid bosses) was over 6000 (roughly 6400) on 1 800 000 damage.

This sounds like human factor to me.
Of course we won’t have the best DPS in the game when we have access to the best party DPS boosts in the game. What do people expect?

Prophet.1584:

Core ranger does better than 5k dps, it always has and only 6k is required per participant to beat the bosses on average. unless that screen scraper is also taking into account the team dps with and without the ranger you’re not seeing what the ranger brings in addition to personal dps.

My numbers are based on solo testing without any outside buffs while running a raid build that focuses on party dps, not a max personal dps build. It is assumed that you will be getting buffs from other players in a raid. Of course ranger dps will increase signficantly with full party buffs, but so will the dps of every other class and since every other class has better dps to begin with… it’s still worse.

The other thing is calculating the benefit of ranger buffs is extremely hard to actually measure. The dps meter looks only at personal dps and not party buffs, which does make up a significant part of a druid’s contribution, but that also makes up a significant part of other class contributions too. A condi warr is doing 20k burn ticks in addition to banner buffs the meter doesn’t take into account etc.

However, looking at ranger buffs. The main one is Grace of the Land and its uptime is way way way worse than people make it out to be. You are not keeping up that 5 stacks on everyone all the time. Not even close.

So I agree that right now the only reason to take a ranger to raids is for a healing druid in a competitive group, because every other class except thief brings good things. I do think you can get by with a good condi player for at least the first boss though.

Frankly the ranger buffs suck. The buff from frost spirit has less than 50% up time over the course of a boss fight where the boss and players have to be moving. On top of that it’s a tiny 10% increase shared over a max of 5 people, so you’re looking at only a 2-3% increase in party damage. Buffs like grace of the land, sun spirit, and spotter have similar issues. Basically all other classes bring higher damage than ranger with party buffs and most of them have better utility anyway.

Balsalom.7218:

On top of that it’s a tiny 10% increase shared over a max of 5 people, so you’re looking at only a 2-3% increase in party damage.

Huh? It’s not 10% shared…it’s 10% for each person affected with the effect. In practice, not a flat 10% increase over time, but not as bad as you’re making out.

It’s 10% each for five players. It works out to about 2-3% when you consider the internal cool down and up time on frost spirit plus the fact that it is a stationary buff giver with a range of a 1000.

You cant compare a warrior with even15 might stack to a ranger with no might stacks and they say even with group support ranger will be lower because the warrior will get more stack.

Other classes are better at self buffing but in a group situation it doesn’t matter because everyone should have 25 stacks of might and fury with 25 of vulnerability on the target.

Also comparing pvp stat to pve stats isn’t the best idea. We now have guild arenas this would be the ideal place to test such things.

[wind ] where are you you guys should be all over this.

Bri.8354:

Druid seems to be the only thing ranger has to make it competitive in PvE.

Every single class in the game needs to trait their elite spec. PvE, or PvP. Maybe the only exception is condi engi and THATS it. But yeah, let’s post doom n’ gloom about it and make it seem like a ranger problem.
Sad.

Bri.8354:

TL;DR ranger is competitive in less than 1% of PvE.

Only the 1% of PvE is actually challenging. Open world meta events do not require specific class comp, fractals can be completed by naked characters, and dungeons.. lol

So yeah, ranger in the challenging part of the game, ranger is needed. I see no problem here. But lets cry about it for the sake of the forum negativity.

I still play my vanilla melee pvp ranger regularly and it still holds up well.

quick question, does this complaint about ranger’s dps includes the pet’s own damage and their abilities and taking into account ranged weapon vs.melee weapons and their associated side functionality? Catch my drift?

quaniesan.8497:

quick question, does this complaint about ranger’s dps includes the pet’s own damage and their abilities and taking into account ranged weapon vs.melee weapons and their associated side functionality? Catch my drift?

only if pet dps shows up in the chat window, which i haven’t tested, but i highly doubt. anet isn’t usually that efficient.

Balsalom.7218:

It’s 10% each for five players. It works out to about 2-3% when you consider the internal cool down and up time on frost spirit plus the fact that it is a stationary buff giver with a range of a 1000.

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger works.
My Frost Spirit has close to 80% uptime in raids, it doesn’t have any internal cooldown, and the Zerk DPS increase it provides is 7,5% for 5 people (while every single buff is capped at 5 people).

So please, go through your homework one more time because you left out 8 other classes. You should try comparing instead of exaggerating.

The numbers you gave are numbers of pure DPS that are still higher than most of classes’ buffs. For example, 8% crit from banner =/= 8% dps. Simply because condition damage, classes with in-built crit going over cap, and so on.
You are right. Frost Spirit is not an exception in this. Why should it?

Balsalom.7218:

It’s 10% each for five players. It works out to about 2-3% when you consider the internal cool down and up time on frost spirit plus the fact that it is a stationary buff giver with a range of a 1000.

uptime on the spirits buff is far higher than that and given that most raid teams should be capable of stacking 25 might and have permanent fury this buff as well as GoL and GoE sit on top of those buffs as does things like alacrity. these unique buffs are extremely important to raids.

just a note: I wonder how many people commenting on how dead ranger is have actually beaten Sabetha or even Gorseval? I know I have.

no one here will disagree that range need a massive work and remvap but the class is no dead, yeha it is not in good spot and its fell like pets are overratted by devs but we actully in batter place when we use to be

Prophet.1584:

just a note: I wonder how many people commenting on how dead ranger is have actually beaten Sabetha or even Gorseval? I know I have.

How is this even relevant? I’m not sure how you figure beating those bosses with a DPS ranger in the group means DPS ranger is good…

DPS ranger is not good compared to other classes, especially the power builds. I could see condi ranger being fine vs Sabetha because she doesn’t do anything, but will it compare to a condi warr or condi reaper? lel no it won’t.

Obviously DPS rangers contribute something but since they are not optimal it means your team has less room for mistakes and other people need to do more to compensate. Maybe you got carried… who knows. You provided literally nothing with this post. Gives us a video of your hot DPS. Even better, include the DPS meter with your video so it’s not “well i saw a 10k burn tick and 5k bleed therefore my dps must be at least 15k”.

The class is as healthy as the effort put in by Anet to fix it, so yea it’s 6 feet under.

Thanks again Irenio!

Are there legal heal “meters”? Would be nice to know some of those numbers

vespers.1759:

I have used the jaxnx dps meter quite a lot and yes… It is enlightening. Although this meter is innacurate it gives a general sense… Condi ranger on a target golem does about 6-6.k dps with brief spikes up to 7. Power ranger is simply abysmal at around 5k. I’m sure others will get this higher, as i don’t claim to be amazing. This is vs a stationary target with no outside buffs and raid builds (none of that stupid self might stacking) which maximizes condi and power dps. Compare this to a condi zerker which can maintain 10k dps vs a golem with a much much easier rotation or rev that can do 9 with auto attacks.

Imho power ranger DPS is so pathetic there’s no point in bring it to raidz at all. I’ve also run condi druid against VG and noticed some things. Dps in phase 1 is good, as the boss doesn’t move. Your dps is still lower than other condi classes ofc, but you can pump out GoL quite often and make use of spirits. Is this good enough to make up for lower personal dps vs another condi class? vs a straight condi ranger? I have no idea.

In the split red boss is basically anti condi. Pet can’t do dps and you have less people to buff. Condi druid also has no cc….

After this the boss moves around and your dps tanks. You can still maintain decent GoL uptime.

Overall i think a well played condi druid is viable for VG but not optimal. remember that if you have a healing druid they’ll also have spotter and spirits. I believe the bugs with them are fixed now for what it’s worth.

As for gorseval…. There’s no point in bringing any dps ranger when other classes can do so much more dmg with much easier rotations. The timer is tighter and you need to bring more damage. Stacking is also easier as there’s fewer mechanjcs to split people which makes the healing druid’s buffing and healing easier to distribute, so the second druid is less necessary. Why bring a condi ranger when you can take a condi warr that does more dps and is easier to play? 20k dps on the meter vs gorse on my first day with condi warr essentially spamming zerk mode and lonbow skills… I will get that even higher easily. Why bring power ranger when literally everything else is better?

Imho ranger is in sad state. We have revs that dish out 13k autos and condi classes pumping out 20k bleed and burn ticks with much more forgiving rotations than ranger. Healing druids are destined to become obsolete when raids get to farm status and druid continues to be the most nerfed class.

PS 23k RF is not strong when other class can do itthat dps in two autoattacks in 2s.

These are all reasons why we need official dps/healing/combat info meters/graphs/thingamajiggers…

The more transparency we have, the more we can grow and improve professions in the long run because then we have factual information to discuss.

Why the hell do we need a heal meter. To prove ranger shines in one area that isn’t really needed. It doesn’t matter if rangers can heal for 1 million while other classes heal for half that because they will also be dealing damage equal or great to what they heal.

No API meters = this discussion is an opinion and should only be treated as such. Furthermore, no one wants meters. The boss either lives or dies based on team work. There is no carry this way. You do x damage you contribute. Plain and simple.

I was wondering if the OP was suggesting that bringing a Ranger in DPS role would hinder, reduce, or prevent a raid boss kill. I didn’t get that answer. Instead it is more about a third party meter showing that they are doing X damage compared to others.

Oh well….class envy maybe.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Why the hell do we need a heal meter. To prove ranger shines in one area that isn’t really needed. It doesn’t matter if rangers can heal for 1 million while other classes heal for half that because they will also be dealing damage equal or great to what they heal.

It’s about having access to, seeing and gathering personal combat stats for many great reasons…

There are tons of factors that go into combat and numbers don’t lie. Would help with build building and allow players to provide factual information to discuss profession stuff.

Don’t be afraid of the meter, it’s ok. It’s all ok

Crapgame.6519:

No API meters = this discussion is an opinion and should only be treated as such. Furthermore, no one wants meters. The boss either lives or dies based on team work. There is no carry this way. You do x damage you contribute. Plain and simple.

How is using the combat log to figure out how much damage you do an opinion? This damage meter is literally just a form of calculator. If you want to believe about imaginary numbers floating behind the scenes go ahead, but don’t ever do raids.

I was wondering if the OP was suggesting that bringing a Ranger in DPS role would hinder, reduce, or prevent a raid boss kill. I didn’t get that answer. Instead it is more about a third party meter showing that they are doing X damage compared to others.

Bringing a ranger in a dps role will hinder killing Gorseval, do nothing for Sabetha, and possibly hinder killing Vale. The absolute best damage ranger can do is the bare minimum needed to kill the boss. Anything less is actively hurting your team.

Swagger.1459:

Are there legal heal “meters”? Would be nice to know some of those numbers

This damage meter can be used to look at almost any kind of combat performance, including healing, damage taken, condi damage, and direct damage.

Prophet.1584:

quaniesan.8497:

quick question, does this complaint about ranger’s dps includes the pet’s own damage and their abilities and taking into account ranged weapon vs.melee weapons and their associated side functionality? Catch my drift?

only if pet dps shows up in the chat window, which i haven’t tested, but i highly doubt. anet isn’t usually that efficient.

Pet damage is shown in the combat log and is included in the damage meter’s calculations.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Balsalom.7218:

It’s 10% each for five players. It works out to about 2-3% when you consider the internal cool down and up time on frost spirit plus the fact that it is a stationary buff giver with a range of a 1000.

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger works.
My Frost Spirit has close to 80% uptime in raids, it doesn’t have any internal cooldown, and the Zerk DPS increase it provides is 7,5% for 5 people (while every single buff is capped at 5 people).

So please, go through your homework one more time because you left out 8 other classes. You should try comparing instead of exaggerating.

The numbers you gave are numbers of pure DPS that are still higher than most of classes’ buffs. For example, 8% crit from banner =/= 8% dps. Simply because condition damage, classes with in-built crit going over cap, and so on.
You are right. Frost Spirit is not an exception in this. Why should it?

Ok then, lets assume best case scenario. At 75% proc rate, 10% damage buff, 5 person limit, theoretical max up time of 60/80 second, and party dps of 73k (enough to kill Vale with 1-2 minutes left), that means that frost spirit is equivalent to 2k total added. That puts ranger up to a max of 7k dps, still far behind other classes. However ALL spirits have an internal cool down limiting their effect and on top of that this assumes absolutely perfect timing and placement so that everyone is inside the range of the spirit at all times. This is obviously ridiculous against bosses like Vale guardian, or even Gorseval to some extent. You are probably only getting 1k dps out of your frost spirit.

For similar reasons the other party buffs that ranger provides are basically at most as effective as frost spirit.

IIRC, didn’t ANET remove the internal cooldown from the Frost Sprit tooltip, because it doesn’t actually exist?

Balsalom.7218:

Bringing a ranger in a dps role will hinder killing Gorseval, do nothing for Sabetha, and possibly hinder killing Vale. The absolute best damage ranger can do is the bare minimum needed to kill the boss. Anything less is actively hurting your team.

It is an opinion because you are stating that bringing a Ranger in a dps role will hinder a raid. That is an biased opinion in which case you have zero facts to back it up.

Crapgame.6519:

Balsalom.7218:

Bringing a ranger in a dps role will hinder killing Gorseval, do nothing for Sabetha, and possibly hinder killing Vale. The absolute best damage ranger can do is the bare minimum needed to kill the boss. Anything less is actively hurting your team.

It is an opinion because you are stating that bringing a Ranger in a dps role will hinder a raid. That is an biased opinion in which case you have zero facts to back it up.

Zero facts, except for an actual damage meter. I think you don’t understand the meaning of the word zero.

Balsalom.7218:

Swagger.1459:

Are there legal heal “meters”? Would be nice to know some of those numbers

This damage meter can be used to look at almost any kind of combat performance, including healing, damage taken, condi damage, and direct damage.

Awesome, thanks! I’ll search for it out on da webz.

Balsalom.7218:

so where is the screenshot , don’t post it here give us a external link.
also ps a condi ranger alone vs the Vale i was doing 3.4-4.2k in bleeds alone on a high stack at most per tick and aslo 2.2k from poisons+ 4.3k over 4 seconds with burns(that breaks down to 1.075k from burn)

thats 7.35k without max buffs as i was on a Green circle Duty and red vale so tell me again how ranger dps is weak , also i know my pet also did atleast 1.2-1.5 a hit as i was running MDG and i maintained it below 50% as the only time you’d get hurt is through personal mistakes and at that point i had a perma 15might.

so please do post your tests and an external link so i can see how many damage sources you are really testing.

rather than spreading crap which is false , Every good ranger knows a effective ranger uses pet and personal damage sources Beyond AA and the random burst skill , you need to build for other sources like improving pet condi ontop of power sources , ranger is not so simple.

also Rev ect they are not Balanced , and promoting rev as Normal? and ranger as weak just shows power creeping , GET ready for Rev Nurfs ect because they will come if that is your point of view accounting rev as standard every class should aim for thats not how the game works.

its no LONGER a DPS RACE , its about smart play vs stupid players.

Balsalom.7218:

Crapgame.6519:

Balsalom.7218:

Bringing a ranger in a dps role will hinder killing Gorseval, do nothing for Sabetha, and possibly hinder killing Vale. The absolute best damage ranger can do is the bare minimum needed to kill the boss. Anything less is actively hurting your team.

It is an opinion because you are stating that bringing a Ranger in a dps role will hinder a raid. That is an biased opinion in which case you have zero facts to back it up.

Zero facts, except for an actual damage meter. I think you don’t understand the meaning of the word zero.

Ok fella, let us try again since you are stuck on the damage meter part. Is it provided by the development team? Let me answer for you, no. Therefore there is room for error. Did you run the damage meter, in the same environment, for each class, with the same buffs? You, yourself? No, you didn’t.

I also believe you said:

“Simply put I was capping out at just a little over 5k dps. This isn’t enough to bring it to raids by its own.”

“With frost spirit, sun spirit, and spotter ranger is just barely acceptable”

“but base ranger damage is not enough to kill the first boss with in the enrage timer”

“Don’t bring ranger outside of druid, and don’t play ranger in raids”

“I’m saying this as long time ranger main. Condi ranger basically isn’t any better either”

Those are your words, not mine. Low dps based on your sample and yours alone with an opinion that it isn’t enough. With spirits it is barely acceptable. Base ranger damage again isn’t enough to kill the first boss with enrage timer. You say a few more things then say even conditional damage based rangers are bad.

So – if I run a Zerk/Ranger I’m hurting the raid and we won’t get past the first boss. Don’t even bother trying because you, and you alone, have said it is dead and will hurt the team.

Nice one. As Zenos said above me, ignorant players…

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

so where is the screenshot , don’t post it here give us a external link.
also ps a condi ranger alone vs the Vale i was doing 3.4-4.2k in bleeds alone on a high stack at most per tick and aslo 2.2k from poisons+ 4.3k over 4 seconds with burns(that breaks down to 1.075k from burn)

thats 7.35k without max buffs as i was on a Green circle Duty and red vale so tell me again how ranger dps is weak , also i know my pet also did atleast 1.2-1.5 a hit as i was running MDG and i maintained it below 50% as the only time you’d get hurt is through personal mistakes and at that point i had a perma 15might.

so please do post your tests and an external link so i can see how many damage sources you are really testing.

you mention providing tests but provide none yourself. you claim you’re getting these damage numbers but without a dps meter to track these numbers over time your claims are completely worthless. maybe you got those numbers but only maintained them for 15 seconds. your dps over the course of the fight would therefore be much lower. you can’t just say “i saw X tick” as if that somehow equates to dps because it doesn’t. at all.

in fact you can just give us a video of your fight so we can watch your ticks over time and make a guess.

also Rev ect they are not Balanced , and promoting rev as Normal? and ranger as weak just shows power creeping , GET ready for Rev Nurfs ect because they will come if that is your point of view accounting rev as standard every class should aim for thats not how the game works.

u wot m8?

who cares if rev is OP? all that matters is what rev CAN do and right now it CAN put out 13k autos while also kittenting out boons. we need to compare what IS to what IS not some airy fairy BS about future nerfs somehow making ranger dps higher in comparison.

its no LONGER a DPS RACE , its about smart play vs stupid players.

actually no… raids are literally dps races because of the timers…. thus one can conclude that a smart player would bring the dps class to ensure success. Can ranger work? as we have seen, yes they can, but they are not as good as others.

See above for my issues with this post.

Also, i saw this video from Josh Glad, who is a very good ranger player. In this group he seems to be the tank, the healer, and condi dps.

i actually think this looks good as druid is indeed viable here. But he also gets to control aggro which helps dps tremendously as he doesn’t need to chase the boss around. he also has a team that doesn’t require much healing either which helps.

I would love to see if he ran this vs the other bosses.

Balsalom.7218:

…
However ALL spirits have an internal cool down limiting their effect
…

Think again.
Plus the duration is ~73 out of 83. And if you don’t know where to put the spirit to provide benefits at all times – don’t blame it on the spirit.
By your merit even Banners are useless. Or better said – even more useless.

vespers.1759:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

so where is the screenshot , don’t post it here give us a external link.
also ps a condi ranger alone vs the Vale i was doing 3.4-4.2k in bleeds alone on a high stack at most per tick and aslo 2.2k from poisons+ 4.3k over 4 seconds with burns(that breaks down to 1.075k from burn)

thats 7.35k without max buffs as i was on a Green circle Duty and red vale so tell me again how ranger dps is weak , also i know my pet also did atleast 1.2-1.5 a hit as i was running MDG and i maintained it below 50% as the only time you’d get hurt is through personal mistakes and at that point i had a perma 15might.

so please do post your tests and an external link so i can see how many damage sources you are really testing.

you mention providing tests but provide none yourself. you claim you’re getting these damage numbers but without a dps meter to track these numbers over time your claims are completely worthless. maybe you got those numbers but only maintained them for 15 seconds. your dps over the course of the fight would therefore be much lower. you can’t just say “i saw X tick” as if that somehow equates to dps because it doesn’t. at all.

in fact you can just give us a video of your fight so we can watch your ticks over time and make a guess.

also Rev ect they are not Balanced , and promoting rev as Normal? and ranger as weak just shows power creeping , GET ready for Rev Nurfs ect because they will come if that is your point of view accounting rev as standard every class should aim for thats not how the game works.

u wot m8?

who cares if rev is OP? all that matters is what rev CAN do and right now it CAN put out 13k autos while also kittenting out boons. we need to compare what IS to what IS not some airy fairy BS about future nerfs somehow making ranger dps higher in comparison.

its no LONGER a DPS RACE , its about smart play vs stupid players.

actually no… raids are literally dps races because of the timers…. thus one can conclude that a smart player would bring the dps class to ensure success. Can ranger work? as we have seen, yes they can, but they are not as good as others.

See above for my issues with this post.

Also, i saw this video from Josh Glad, who is a very good ranger player. In this group he seems to be the tank, the healer, and condi dps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Pk3GBfTz0

i actually think this looks good as druid is indeed viable here. But he also gets to control aggro which helps dps tremendously as he doesn’t need to chase the boss around. he also has a team that doesn’t require much healing either which helps.

I would love to see if he ran this vs the other bosses.

yes good point with the druid build , though my guild already had a tank/healer druid so i went with Condi damage and druid support just incase the tank made a mistake but my main role was KB red orbs and condi damage through poison master/sun spirit/sharpen edges and vipers nest though thats our team comp.

Raids are not a dps race , you can Mathimaticly gauge the correct amount of dps needed to finish the boss before timer enrage , you don’t need Maximum dps at all times or a build that is 100% dps , 80% of the build as dps is enough to finish the boss before the timer , hence the Smart play rather than " dps race" .

after a few tries , my guild did do the obvious full out dps and tank/heal , then found human error is not worth the dps rush just to shave off 2mins and increase the chances of Failing because of said rushing / lack of outside support excluding those dedicated to boons and tanking , and that lead to me being the condi/supporter only if the tank/healer needed it so we made a yin/yan system if the tank heals , i damage , if the tanks damaging and the teams needs no healing , i keep dpsing.

again pointing to smart play.

the point about the rev is , if people start to use the current Unbalanced aspects of a class as the Standard people should aim for when it comes to damage , they will be disapointed when things are Balanced and people like that enforcing it now , will regret somthing later on Hastey actions lead to consequences (deleting armour sets, or a charater entirely just like the necros before HoT and they kicked themselfs in the teeth because some roled to a different spec as they aimed to do more " Acceptable damage or in this case Socialy accepted" but in the Reality of things necro was fine ( it was all the words that enforce somesones choices and thats where i draw the line its their choice to do or don’t but that leaves no room reason for people to set the Bar so high for no reason.

if people are intenting to put rev in a perspective of “this is what you’re damage should be at” i don’t agree with that , and will wait untill real Balance changes to arrive before i pass any opinions or my reviews on certain classes.

as to why i haven’t mentioned anything in my post history about Revs yet and i will soo as when i find reasons for its Balance to be Acceptable not a power creep as other classes left behind again (that leads to me saying they will be nurfed upon a review of balance possibility same goes for reaper/chrono/DH.

when it comes to balance there will always be one class or a set of skills to act as a weight to stop power creeping from going Rampant.