Guild Wars 2

That’s right. No longer can people say rangers don’t belong in “metazerk” groups. All those dungeon lfgs saying “no rangers” now officially don’t have a clue about rangers. It only took 3 years, but the power and usefulness of a ranger has been recognized by the community.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

Weep those tears of joy we’ve had to hold in for 3 years as you read “this build is part of the current metagame” for dungeons/fractals.

Now we must feel pity for our necro brethren who have suffered alongside us as outside of the meta until HoT comes out and reaper brings them in with us (or kicks us out) as they are the only class lacking a “meta build”

Been there a while bro.

As rangers we know that, but the community as a whole has not since we have not been marked in the meta for a long time. We have been noted by metabattle as being in the great section for the past few months, but not good enough to be part of the meta at the top with ele, war, guard, mes, and thief. Ranger and engi were only moved up there today (note the modified one day ago). I find it hard to believe you have not seen the “no necros or rangers” lfgs that seem to be everywhere in the dungeon and fractal sections these days. I don’t lfg much personally since I have a guild to run with but I do occasionally look at them in the hopes of finding the funny ones.

Ok, not to be a complete party pooper but the entire point of butchering the old trait system was that there are now no more surprises when it comes to making builds. Its EASY to see all the major permutation in a day or two of tinkering.

Doesn’t mean anything, most groups will still run a 2nd ele instead of the ranger.

Update us when Rangers make it onto the Meta Team instead of being mentioned as a second-string replacements. Until then, we’ll keep the benches warm.

People still won’t risk the bearbow for a Ranger that actually knows his stuff.
I wouldn’t myself.
If I see a ranger using Signet of Stone or Renewal in PvE I call for a replacement straight away. And those are not rare.

Every other player with 3-digit IQ already gives a chance to Frost Spotter Ranger into MetaZerk groups. Nothing is going to change at all.

This build has been around for like 18 months…

Lol, anything is “meta” in pve…. any build/profession can beat any PvE content….

There is no rejoicing here. Rangers , along with every profession has been a “casual meta”

However, if you honestly believe rangers are meta in speed run groups , you are delusional.

a 2nd icebow over ranger is better sustained DPS by a mile.

Sorry to rain on your parade OP, but every profession has been casually meta for a while…..That doesn’t mean they are optimal though. Just like ranger. It is not an optimal profession for dungs/fracs, but they work, just like every other class… there is nothing new here…

Sube Dai.8496:

This build has been around for like 18 months…

Not exactly, it actually become a very different build after the trait patch revamp.

The old build didn’t have Quick Draw and Zephyr’s Speed.
The current build is focused on frequent weapon swap burst and pet swapping with lots of quickness. Huge improvement on dps.

It was a very different build and play style, old one you only used LB for opener and closer, with SA’s sword being sustained dps. The rotations were very different.

SkiTz.4590:

a 2nd icebow over ranger is better sustained DPS by a mile.

Icebow has always been only for burst, you don’t camp icebow. 4 3 2 … drop bow. IB dps dips after those 3 skills on cd. IB4 is long cd, you don’t wait for it. Icebow has never been for sustained dps.

Pino.5209:

SkiTz.4590:

a 2nd icebow over ranger is better sustained DPS by a mile.

Icebow has always been only for burst, you don’t camp icebow. 4 3 2 … drop bow. IB dps dips after those 3 skills on cd. IB4 is long cd, you don’t wait for it. Icebow has never been for sustained dps.

All you need is burst really in a well coordinated group…. thats why 2 eles is meta…4 Ib’s melts pretty much anything in dungs/fracs lol…

Even than, once you do the IB burst, you can drop it and continue raining heavy AOE and lava fonts for way more dps than ranger will put out….

The funny thing is the condi build actually outdoes this build in many situations

Rangers have been solid for over a year now, people have known this, still not part of the meta group comp because they lack the strong niche that the meta comp is comprised of (Stealth – THief, Offensive Support – War, Damage/blinds/awesomness – Ele, optional defensive support – Guard/Mez, side mention of portal tricks for mez).

Anyways, metabattle is pretty far behind on things and generally not the best way to get your information other than for new players just looking for a starting point.

SkiTz.4590:

Pino.5209:

SkiTz.4590:

a 2nd icebow over ranger is better sustained DPS by a mile.

Icebow has always been only for burst, you don’t camp icebow. 4 3 2 … drop bow. IB dps dips after those 3 skills on cd. IB4 is long cd, you don’t wait for it. Icebow has never been for sustained dps.

All you need is burst really in a well coordinated group…. thats why 2 eles is meta…4 Ib’s melts pretty much anything in dungs/fracs lol…

Even than, once you do the IB burst, you can drop it and continue raining heavy AOE and lava fonts for way more dps than ranger will put out….

I personally suspect this will be an issue in upcoming Raids in HOT, since eventually those “hardcore” players will have 5 elementalists in their raid party for a 10-icebow burst. 2 same classes out of 5 may not be an issue, while 5 out of 10 can be quite…weird, I would say; and that is obviously something Anet would not want to see.

My guess is, icebow will be nerfed while some less “meta” classes (necro of course, ranger and engi are on the waiting list depending on the performance of Druid and Forge) will get buffed on team support ability; so far necro’s trait line rework, the reaper trait line and shout skills are not powerful enough to give it a “meta” position.

I doubt 10 IBs will be a thing, people will still want Phalanx.

And trying to Root and cast those icebows adds too much death risk to the party having to go pick it up and cast it in a short window before a shockwave happends , in this case a Ranger casting Icebow+petswap quickness> quickdraw Barrage would be a better choice as we can repostion quicker to avoid a suprise shockwave or get ice bow cast skip the quick draw barrage and go into super speed into the glider.

as picking up a Icebow counts as a weapon swap it will trigger Quickdraw when we drop it for a barrage to be cut down to 12-14seconds cooldown or flexiable while super speeding away get a fast Rapid fire off instead while going to the glider as you’d be off court mid range and would not have too far to Run back to catch the updraft.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I doubt 10 IBs will be a thing, people will still want Phalanx.

That will all depend on how the Raids start. If there’s a small amount of down time before the boss spawns so people can pre-buff with 5 Eles + whatever blasts the other 5 party members can contribute, that’ll be enough Fury and Might for a 10 IB opener.

People will still want Phalanx, no doubt, but how many slots will that leave open?

I doubt raids will play like current dungeons/fractals: Stealthing past everything and Ice Bow-ing bosses in 5 seconds.

More than likely there’ll be a safe spot exploit that they wont bother to fix and then they’ll abandon raids and not update them after a few months

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I doubt 10 IBs will be a thing, people will still want Phalanx.

That will all depend on how the Raids start. If there’s a small amount of down time before the boss spawns so people can pre-buff with 5 Eles + whatever blasts the other 5 party members can contribute, that’ll be enough Fury and Might for a 10 IB opener.

People will still want Phalanx, no doubt, but how many slots will that leave open?

It has always been my concerned when it come to raid composition. Boons and damage modifiers are limited to 5 ppl.
Guardian is king of defensive boons ;and warrior is king of offensive boons and damage modifiers. You’ll need 2 of each for every 5 ppl, 4 spots gone. There will be more than 1 eles, say 2 for example. That leaves 4 spots open. Less spot, if grp decided to make it rain with icebow.
The other 2 classes that carries damage modifiers are rev and ranger.
Engi and mesmer bring lots utilities that can be useful.
Then what gonna happen to thief if blind and stealth not needed?
Necro? … good god lol.
4 spots or less for 6 professions.

Just be happy i guess, a ranger carry damage modifier. Whether we’ll be preferred … god knows. I guarantee you though, anet will fail to balance when it comes to composition. Somehow ranger will probably get the short end of the stick.

Tragic Positive.9356:

If I see a ranger using Signet of Stone or Renewal in PvE I call for a replacement straight away. And those are not rare.

I tend to run it for that dredge boss and I think it’s path 2 CM (sorry been over a year since I’ve run these regularly, run them like once every 3 months). In a PUG you can’t rely on condi clear and HS isn’t always enough for the party. You would kick me. Edit: I actually can’t think of a reason a ranger would run SoR other than for a specific reason. It doesn’t really have a passive effect in PvE.

Anywhos, I have effectively quit GW2 for the past few months because I only want to play ranger and Anet apparently doesn’t want me to play ranger. I got tired of being unwanted and/or subpar in. Every. Single. Game mode. Did something get updated that we are now top tier in PvE? Or is it that frost spotter is just pretty acceptable for PUGs? All I need is a single kitten game mode where I’m wanted….

There are fights where stone and renewal come in handy. Situational.

Mai Trin for example. Stealth strategy with thief, 2 Bears. Rotate them when low on hp hit Stone signet to protect them when low on hp from heavy damage spike. Longbow and warhorn for extra blast on smoke for stealth. You need to set up the trait to make your Bears extra tanky.

Legendary imbued shaman, is another. Spirit is just pure useless in this fight same like Mai Trin. Signet Wild, Stone and Renewal. Bear and hound. Bear is for emergency tanking, when group wiped and you can run out of combat. While bear tanking from edge, you can run to another edge to ooc. Bear also serve as protecting pet swap cool down for hound (which is handy for the aoe imob). Run entangle. Axe/axe and Longbow. Axe5 will come handy on elemental phase. Longbow 2 and 5 must be ready when his shield up.

In fractal, as ranger you need to swap traits, utilities, weapons and pets on regular basis for almost every fight to be effective. Mai Trin and Imbued Shaman ^ for examples, require extremely different play style, pet, weapons and traits.
In fractal, playing a ranger properly is harder than a warrior for example. You can face roll whole fractals without changing trait as phalanx.

In normal dungeons, there are no need for renewal and stone signet. So yep. Frost spirit is a must.

Pino.5209:

In normal dungeons, there are no need for renewal and stone signet. So yep. Frost spirit is a must.

I didn’t meant SoR in place of FS, I meant SoR in PUG-survival situations in place of SotW or QZ.

I’ve seen too many PUGs get floored by that dredge boss and the CM bandit bleeds to trust PUGs to keep themselves alive. If we don’t have some obvious condi clear, I’ll take SoR.

Fluffball.8307:

Pino.5209:

In normal dungeons, there are no need for renewal and stone signet. So yep. Frost spirit is a must.

I didn’t meant SoR in place of FS, I meant SoR in PUG-survival situations in place of SotW or QZ.

I’ve seen too many PUGs get floored by that dredge boss and the CM bandit bleeds to trust PUGs to keep themselves alive. If we don’t have some obvious condi clear, I’ll take SoR.

Still you will not need Signet of Renewal for condi removal, even on pug dungeons.
Under Skirmishing trait, Major Adept, there is 1 trait that is extremely valuable. Trapper’s Expertise. Yes, Healing Spring is a trap now. Your Healing Spring will be extremely OP, with virtually almost no downtime.
You still have to drop it with discretion so that it doesn’t interrupt fire field.
Your bleed damage under Sharpened Edge Major Adept will be minimal if you are zerk.
You don’t want to dodge most of the time in normal dungeons, to take full advantage of 10%damage modifier from Steady Focus (Marksmanship). This is where sword’s evade come in handy. Hence, Primal Reflex is not needed.

Are you guys sure that Resounding Timbre is better than Companion’s might?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Are you guys sure that Resounding Timbre is better than Companion’s might?

Yes. Low cd on Strength of the Pack or Sick Em, is more valuable plus, team regens.
The might on pet is lousily short and the bleed damage is kinda low, Companion’s Might.

Yup. Unless you don’t slot any Shouts.

Pino.5209:

Still you will not need Signet of Renewal for condi removal, even on pug dungeons.
Under Skirmishing trait, Major Adept, there is 1 trait that is extremely valuable. Trapper’s Expertise. Yes, Healing Spring is a trap now. Your Healing Spring will be extremely OP, with virtually almost no downtime.

Often times I’ll get focused and need to use the heal for the heal, rather than group condi removal. Remember I’m talking LFG PUGs, so you need to both stay alive and keep the team alive, and can’t count on things like aegis.

At the very least I think we can agree enough thought has gone into this that you shouldn’t automatically kick someone running SoR. You kick imbeciles, not people that are trying to make the run as fast as possible.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Are you guys sure that Resounding Timbre is better than Companion’s might?

Depends.
Sick’Em is a waste for thrash and if you manage to blow SotP on every single boss without the trait – clear companion might it is.

My party usually has close to perma swiftness uptime, and having your pet buffed to 25 might every SotP is more valuable for DPS.

But then again, Resounding Timbre makes life more comfortable. Maybe not more efficient, but definitely more comfortable.

Fluffball.8307:

Tragic Positive.9356:

If I see a ranger using Signet of Stone or Renewal in PvE I call for a replacement straight away. And those are not rare.

I tend to run it for that dredge boss and I think it’s path 2 CM (sorry been over a year since I’ve run these regularly, run them like once every 3 months). In a PUG you can’t rely on condi clear and HS isn’t always enough for the party. You would kick me.

Well, I use renewal myself – AC P2 is a good example. I even stick my bear out there.
Because it’s useful at that specific situation.
If a ranger joins a party with those signets active that’s a clear alarm that something’s wrong. Similar feeling like a full signet Warrior.
SoS holds 80 second cooldown. That’s 2 uses of SotP with Resounding Timbre. Nope, I must be desperate if I consider that choice over Either Sick’Em, SotW or Frost Spirit for 80 seconds.
The only places where I do is Harpy Fractal StairWay laser dodging (I run through allowing everybody else run behind me safely) and CoF P3 the time bomb tunnel.

I’m sorry i’ll say this:
Who ever follows this meta is dumb, WHY?
Well ranger was 25% stronger with LB+S/A, i was running that build before, and i can tell you that people didn’t think ranger is strong before, and now when ranger build as they describe is nerfed they put it on meta list?! Who the hell are those meta elitist people that control useless meta builds ?!

The only LB combination that is good right now is LB+GS with quickdraw. nothing else is damage wise better. Before trait changes, LB+S/A was better, we had axe training, 20% reduction, axe did hit 10k+ with opening strike, now it barely hits 4k with opening strike? (NINJA NERF?), rapid fire did hit 16k, now it barely hits 12k. Just saying, people are following meta blindly and not thinking with their own heads!

People were saying pre patch that ranger was bad class for roaming, while rangers did poop on everything else if you were smart, even thiefs and mesmers, there was nothing to kill you in 1v1.

Because of meta builders, rangers were always in bad spot, while they were always quite decent, compared to other classes, now that ranger actually is nerfed, they believe that builds that were good pre-traits are decent, oh people, i’m still waiting the day, when you’ll start using own heads and speaking from experience, not what you hear and copy on metabattle.

@Firelysm
I don’t have any of the problems you describe.
I actually do Rapid Fires in organized groups (using NM traitline for more DPS from boons and boons shared onto pet) that hit for 32K.

Axe Training was the one that gave more ferocity – the one that was and still is as worthless as ever?
And with all due respect, I still hit for 10K with Path of Scars. I sincerely have no idea how we could have been nerfed with QuickDraw imrpovements.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Firelysm
I don’t have any of the problems you describe.
I actually do Rapid Fires in organized groups (using NM traitline for more DPS from boons and boons shared onto pet) that hit for 32K.

Axe Training was the one that gave more ferocity – the one that was and still is as worthless as ever?
And with all due respect, I still hit for 10K with Path of Scars. I sincerely have no idea how we could have been nerfed with QuickDraw imrpovements.

Sorry 32k what? damage? on Lv1 mob? I was doing 10k dmg to medium armor people, now i can’t deal more then 5k with axe off hand + opening strike.

Axe Training before the trait changes increased Ferocity when wielding an Axe in main-hand and the 20% axe cooldown was tied to Off-Hand Training in Wilderness Survival. There was no point to slot AT when running S/A & LB setup back then, or now.

Firelysm.4967:

Sorry 32k what? damage? on Lv1 mob? I was doing 10k dmg to medium armor people, now i can’t deal more then 5k with axe off hand + opening strike.

lvl 50 fractals. Don’t remember which mob now.

I use signet of stone on archdiviner/mossman, allows me to pull my full melee burst without fear of losing my scholar bonus or being brought low in health.

Utilities are QZ/FSpirit/Signet of Stone or Signet of the Wild.

The pet makes 15% of your DPS IF it is a jaguar (way less if running a drake for fractal 50 bosses), so increasing its damage by 40% with sic em is kind of a wimpy skill compared to a 8 second 25% damage increase for both you and the pet.

I’m still dubious about using Axe over Warhorn. What is it that makes Axe so great? Whirling Defense is alright I guess, but most of the hype seems to be around Path of Scars, and I don’t understand how that skill beats out a double blast finisher with Clarion+CotW and the might stacking with Hunter’s Call.

Maximum Potato.5923:

I’m still dubious about using Axe over Warhorn. What is it that makes Axe so great? Whirling Defense is alright I guess, but most of the hype seems to be around Path of Scars, and I don’t understand how that skill beats out a double blast finisher with Clarion+CotW and the might stacking with Hunter’s Call.

I have to support this statement.

It’s just that Whirling Defense adds 12 vuln stacks to 3 targets, provide reflect and may deal more damage…
… Which might or may not be true.

I find myself running warhorn from time to time. There’s nothing else for damage than Warhorn Trait in that particular tier, and bringing it to the same CD as Path of Scars beats it’s damage.
Why? Because 60% of the time you stack and Path of Scars gets ruined for texture and pathing reasons hitting only 1 out of 2. Where Hunter’s Call deals much better damage, proccing more Sharpened Edges (let’s call it 3K more damage from the trait if might stacked) and you provide more than permanent swiftness uptime. Plus you don’t have to wait with rotation until Icebow #5 hits.
And you also have that bonus blast finisher.

Warhorn is not a bad weapon if you take PoS pathing issues into consideration. It also helps strip Shaman from Block Stacks in Lava Fractals (while Reflect is without a doubt better for that situation, but if you have a mesmer, why not).
But you have to be careful in Asura fractals at the Vile Ooze. One call of the wild into it’s block can result in a party wipe.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Why? Because 60% of the time you stack

There are very few encounters where there are any reasons to stack at all, so Path of Scars should do totaly fine unless your group is stuck with old tacticts. Hunter’s Call is a dps loss compared to autoattacking with sword..

My Howler is still stuck in my inventory as a blast finisher, and there it stays until Anet bothers to give it some buffs.

Maximum Potato.5923:

I don’t understand how that skill beats out a double blast finisher

In any situations where those blast finishers are covered. Path of Scar hitting twice is pretty much one of the biggest damage dealers a ranger has. Sure, you have to watch out for defiance, but at the same time the skill contributes to stripping the stacks off after icebow #5 has landed.

And yeah, Whirling Defense finally being a reliably reflect not dependent on traits to work is a nice bonus.

Just a note, multi hit attacks do not remove multiple Volcanic Shaman shield stacks. You remove exactly one stack of his shield per ability activation. Otherwise Barrage and frostbow on the lava elementals would be instantly popping the shield.

Warhorn is not used because in a meta group you have so many blasts already, it’s a redundant weapon especially with Clarion Bond traited. If your group is doing things right with a PSEA warrior and ele, you should be might/fury capped the entire time.

It MAY see more use if raids require more usage of water field healing, the one blast where the more IS the merrier.

@Lazze
Yep, I know you are right.
Axe is even AoE unlike Warhorn. But not everybody has a stable reliable group that fills the needed mechanics – and pugs usually do everything by stacking.

And it’s still an efficient way to do PvE even for the most hardcore intelligent people out there – that does ruin PoS pathing.
Warhorn is an option if you play Nature Magic traitline. Very situational but not that much for people to blame you for bringing one.