Guild Wars 2

I had my ranger for a while now but used him mainly for sniping targets in WvW zerg fights.

I played two games of PvP in him, lost both, but felt that he was dishing out good damage with good survivability.

Rangers are not weak at all? even when I was targetted it took a while before they got me down.

I run LB + GS.
Traits is 20660
With rune of the grove

here is the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaDLesQ1ag8gaVA0OIOifw9CHFxdBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEAs2fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

Try it. it has good damage and good survivability.

Yep, that exactly is the build that is suited for PvP.

The standard GlassBow is, with all honesty, not.
Maybe in solo queue, but definitely not an organized match.

Hi, @sacrifice
I will suggest some changes:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaHL+rQ1aAJhqdFEArKrq1d2+B/cBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEA12fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yep, that exactly is the build that is suited for PvP.

The standard GlassBow is, with all honesty, not.
Maybe in solo queue, but definitely not an organized match.

=o so I got the build right for PvP the very first time?

Awesome.

All I did with ranger previously was full berserker and damage traits in WvW, followed the zerg and sniped other zergs.

played PvP, scared of dying, tried to trait and equip survival abilities and I got it right!

LughLongArm.5460:

Hi, @sacrifice
I will suggest some changes:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaHL+rQ1aAJhqdFEArKrq1d2+B/cBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEA12fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

hmm…your build does look better at surviving than mine…

EremiteAngel.9765:

LughLongArm.5460:

Hi, @sacrifice
I will suggest some changes:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaHL+rQ1aAJhqdFEArKrq1d2+B/cBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEA12fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

hmm…your build does look better at surviving than mine…

It got the benefit of little boost in stats, bark skin+ enlargment combo, prema swiftness , little support with aoe condi removal and the pack rune effect. Also hide in plain sight is very good ATM especially for LB users.
vigor trait can be changed to the bleeding one for extra bleed damage.

The whole point is actually to take the SotF instead of Read the Wind.

You’d want to swap Empathic Bond for Bark Skin depending on who’s focusing you. And you’d actually want Shared Anguish. 1 denied pull into the middle of teamfight is 20 times better than Surviving for 1 second more after being pulled into the hell’s nest. Even though you’d survive for 1 more second 3 times more (shorter cooldown). That’s a night and day life-time difference.

There are several variations of how to play the Longbow Ranger, and your is close to being the best. You have to remember that as a zerk, your job is to deal damage. Not to necessarily stay alive for eternity.

Also, the cripple from MM is, in my opinion, better since the vigor is pointless. If a power class gets to you on melee, you have LR that already gives you that.
While the cripple from range that might give you extra 2-4 seconds of ranged advantage is something that you don’t have yet.
If the enemy is able to get to your face more than 3 times (point blank – LR – Signet of the stone), than you are already dead meat and you wouldn’t survive thanks to the bonus 1 evade you’d get from the traited vigor on crit.

@Tragic Positive.9356
Hi,
The Shared Anguish vs hide in plain sight is all about the CD, 30 sec cd vs 90 sec cd, plulling skills are Relatively easy to dodge and even if u do, you got stealth and LR.

I mentioned that vigor can be changed to bleeds, not that strong but its something. The important thing in the skirmishing trait line is the minor swiftness, with pack rune and boon duration its 100% swiftness up time which is always very good.

LughLongArm.5460:

@Tragic Positive.9356
Hi,
The Shared Anguish vs hide in plain sight is all about the CD, 30 sec cd vs 90 sec cd, plulling skills are Relatively easy to dodge and even if u do, you got stealth and LR.

I mentioned that vigor can be changed to bleeds, not that strong but its something. The important thing in the skirmishing trait line is the minor swiftness, with pack rune and boon duration its 100% swiftness up time which is always very good.

Here I have to agree. The Swiftness indeed is useful.
Even though the HiPS… Will reveal you if you get pulled. It’s a change of the location (or simply said movement). You’ll only get detargeted for like 1 second. You are still going to end up in the middle of battlefield where you do NOT want to be.

Shared Anguish may save your life big time, or be semi-useless. Just as HiPS. But HiPS will not save your life. It will only make it uncomfortable for the enemy.

What’s wrong with glassbow?

Eurantien.4632:

What’s wrong with glassbow?

Well, lots of things actually.

His only good burst is on a long cooldown (SotW), he lacks damage in comparison to thieves and mesmers, he lacks utility in comparison to thieves and mesmers, he lacks team presence unlike thieves and mesmers (that are both good stompers and thieves are excellent at saving downed targets), he lacks the most important boon strip mechanic, is easier killed, and lacks mobility (low access to higher ground because he lacks a port mechanic unlike thieves and mesmers).

So all in all, GlassBow Ranger only had a (dis)advantage of being far away from point. The variation without read the wind gives him the upper hand in dueling (where glassbow usually lost) while allowing access to team support via disruption, as well as being able to survive for longer than Thieves and Mesmers.

Rapid fire is 8 or 10 sec cd… Glassbow doesn’t need SotW. I get thieves and mesmers are arguably better at the dps role but I think glassbow can fill those rolls too. I would say the only map glassbow suffers on is Forest, because there is so much LoS and no where safe to be at mid. However, on Foefire and especially Kyhlo I think glassbow can shine. Personally, I don’t see the reason of not running zerk or RTW on a lb build because you can still 1v1 just as effectively as any other lb build while still providing to the team fight in terms of damage (only loses to d/d cele and shoutbow, same as any other lb ranger build). Thus making berserker the optimal choice.

Eurantien.4632:

Rapid fire is 8 or 10 sec cd… Glassbow doesn’t need SotW. I get thieves and mesmers are arguably better at the dps role but I think glassbow can fill those rolls too. I would say the only map glassbow suffers on is Forest, because there is so much LoS and no where safe to be at mid. However, on Foefire and especially Kyhlo I think glassbow can shine. Personally, I don’t see the reason of not running zerk or RTW on a lb build because you can still 1v1 just as effectively as any other lb build while still providing to the team fight in terms of damage (only loses to d/d cele and shoutbow, same as any other lb ranger build). Thus making berserker the optimal choice.

On a few points you are right.
Rangers are able to fill the role of Zerk and it’s fine to play the Read the Wind build. You’ll have to sacrifice Skirmishing to get the SotF and that’s all there is to it. (If you don’t, you are dead meat for any stronger duelist out there.)
But they are in no way better than Thief or Mesmer. Because while thief and Mesmer have escape mechanisms, you only have an escape that is inferior to theirs, or have abilities that will make you live longer for a couple of seconds.

That’s all.

You can still make it happen, but the chance that the GlassBow ranger can afford to play it efficiently to catch up to his other 2 Zerk Fellows is rather tiny.

You have to watch out for reflects (th/me don’t), you have to watch out for your position (they don’t – ports), you have to pray your team is going to save you (they don’t – invis and escapes – roam to other points)…

And at the end of the day, the only thing the GlassBow brings is damage. Not the CC because that has to be saved for defense, not the objectives (he needs to be away from point to be efficient), neither the utility. Rangers bring only the damage that isn’t even higher than the Zerk standards of his two other brothers.

That’s what is wrong with the standard GlassBow.

Of course, but glassbow vs “otherbows” in PvP, glassbow brings the most to the team when playing as a ranger, unless you want to reroll professions.

Eurantien.4632:

Of course, but glassbow vs “otherbows” in PvP, glassbow brings the most to the team when playing as a ranger, unless you want to reroll professions.

Not necessarily.
Swapping the Skirmishing trait line for the SotF gives you one extra free slot for team support or utility. Muddy Terrain comes in mind.

Also, if you wish to be all damage – you don’t loose more than 10%. Because instead of crit and ferocity, you get much higher fury uptime and you can get Zephyr instead of Signet of the Wild (GlassBow usually goes Stone,Wild and LR…).
This way you’ll still deal close to the same GlassBow damage (even though lower, I’m aware), but with better access to dealing with certain threats resulting in higher alive uptime – which in the end means more damage.

I consider zerker with 6 in MM “glassbow”. Granted I think 6/6 > 6/x/x/6 but that’s cause I think every “glassbow” should run LR, SoS (or prot me), and SoR. You can provide team support through damage, pet control, CC, and condi clear. I’m just saying I think zerker ranger with 6 in MM is the Rangers best option atm. Regardless of its iteration: 6/6/2, 6/4/4, 6/x/x/6, or 6/x/x/0/6

Eurantien.4632:

I consider zerker with 6 in MM “glassbow”. Granted I think 6/6 > 6/x/x/6 but that’s cause I think every “glassbow” should run LR, SoS (or prot me), and SoR. You can provide team support through damage, pet control, CC, and condi clear. I’m just saying I think zerker ranger with 6 in MM is the Rangers best option atm.

In that case I might misinterpreted.
GlassBow ranger is 6-6-2, or so I thought.

The others are variations such as the Fury Longbow and several others. My personal favorite and promising was 6-2-0-6-0 (possible to move 2 from Skirmishing into Wilderness).

Now that you explained, I do believe I agree on what you are saying. It’s just that Read the Wind does not necessarily mean the Glass build. The variations can be pretty elusive.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I had my ranger for a while now but used him mainly for sniping targets in WvW zerg fights.

I played two games of PvP in him, lost both, but felt that he was dishing out good damage with good survivability.

Rangers are not weak at all? even when I was targetted it took a while before they got me down.

I run LB + GS.
Traits is 20660
With rune of the grove

here is the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaDLesQ1ag8gaVA0OIOifw9CHFxdBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEAs2fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

Try it. it has good damage and good survivability.

Umm, you played 2 games and lost, then you’re claiming it’s a good build..
Where’s the logic?
Maybe, just maybe it’s because your damage is not good at all as a supposedly zerker class, that you didn’t do your job of sniping good enough that your team lost?
Ah…. moving on.

Toxsa.2701:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I had my ranger for a while now but used him mainly for sniping targets in WvW zerg fights.

I played two games of PvP in him, lost both, but felt that he was dishing out good damage with good survivability.

Rangers are not weak at all? even when I was targetted it took a while before they got me down.

I run LB + GS.
Traits is 20660
With rune of the grove

here is the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjEq0yaDLesQ1ag8gaVA0OIOifw9CHFxdBraA-TpBFwACuAAMOEAs2fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

Try it. it has good damage and good survivability.

Umm, you played 2 games and lost, then you’re claiming it’s a good build..
Where’s the logic?
Maybe, just maybe it’s because your damage is not good at all as a supposedly zerker class, that you didn’t do your job of sniping good enough that your team lost?
Ah…. moving on.

so um what build is good?
I am still new. sorry if my claim is illogical. Just my feeling when I tried the build.

Glass bow rangers can provide safe ranged reliable burst damage.

There are things thieves and mesmers do better but then there are things they do better.

Tanky SotF (when i mean tanky its due to the condi removal and CC’ss that creates its tanky persona)

LB+gs good for Range and fighting on point with SotF gives you a good postioning + CC while being strongly anti Condi.

pros
Tanky
Lots of condi clears
Mobility no issues
Range average LB is more Utility than damage.
Wolf is a perfect combination with your chosen utility skills

Cons
Burst damage (compaired to classic LB+gs glass) medium damage
General Auto damage lower

my opinon about your build is how rangers should be run with supporting CC’s + good damage , rather than Mass damage and limiting on point ability for capping or +1 Melee support.

though the one thing i’d change is The Drake hound for a different pet like Snow wolf you already have a good Immobilise on muddy terrain and enough CC controls to fight on point , no need to immobilise again using Chill will be Much more effective with the cripple your dealing out from predators instinct+barrage.

PBS>cripples(from trait)>huntershot>pet runs out Chills>you barrage on location between you and target to force them to stay off point, also baits out a gap closer due to the risk of them loosing the cap point, but doing so puts there skills on a longer cooldown due to chill, in the long run chill will push the fight more into your favour than a second immobilse.

so Snow wolf or Snow owl(for the added swiftness and Vun attacks)

Snow Owl and GS is your friend. Learn to use it correctly because that’s a 7k burst on a squishy.

Eurantien.4632:

I consider zerker with 6 in MM “glassbow”. Granted I think 6/6 > 6/x/x/6 but that’s cause I think every “glassbow” should run LR, SoS (or prot me), and SoR.

My very small and humble experience (compared to yours), is that I think that it’s pretty hard to keep up the pace of the game without a speed boost on a glass build. Rangers, and especially glassbows, really suffer from lack of TP ability. This is why, after many games, I’ve swapped out SoR for SotH (and why I play 6/5/3 with signet recharge instead of the traditional 6/6/2, and it allows me to Vampirism runes which are awesome for us).

SotH provides mobility between the fights, and the on-demand attack of opportunity is fantastic for Mauls when you’re using GS.

It leaves me very weak to condis, yes. Not more than mesmers though. And condis are why god invented shoutbows anyway.

Traveler runes.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yep, that exactly is the build that is suited for PvP.

The standard GlassBow is, with all honesty, not.
Maybe in solo queue, but definitely not an organized match.

Too bad we get out-dps hard by any other zerker classes if you traited that way. Now you lose dps and gain survivability, great, but it means you contribute even less to the team now. Even 6 2 6 0 0 has trouble killing decent Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, and even Ele “fast enough” in a group fight (if it’s 1 v 1, it’s even harsher, you probably will never kill a good Warrior, Engineer, Ele 1 on 1 before his teammates come or he outsustain you).

This is not WvW roaming, where all you need to do is stay alive.
Our selling point is the on demand range spike on crucial target. If we even lose that, we may as well not exist at all, and bring a better AOE zerk class with better dps and better utilities to the table, or another sustain celestial class for staying on nodes.

Ranger is not weak in PvP.
Ranger is weak in the current PvP meta.

Our strongest builds are either:

• Countered by the current meta (condi)
• Outperformed by similar builds from other classes (power)

Aomine.5012:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yep, that exactly is the build that is suited for PvP.

The standard GlassBow is, with all honesty, not.
Maybe in solo queue, but definitely not an organized match.

Too bad we get out-dps hard by any other zerker classes if you traited that way. Now you lose dps and gain survivability, great, but it means you contribute even less to the team now. Even 6 2 6 0 0 has trouble killing decent Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, and even Ele “fast enough” in a group fight (if it’s 1 v 1, it’s even harsher, you probably will never kill a good Warrior, Engineer, Ele 1 on 1 before his teammates come or he outsustain you).

This is not WvW roaming, where all you need to do is stay alive.
Our selling point is the on demand range spike on crucial target. If we even lose that, we may as well not exist at all, and bring a better AOE zerk class with better dps and better utilities to the table, or another sustain celestial class for staying on nodes.

You get out-DPSed by every Zerk class regardless.

And furthermore, My build has
2442 power,
60% crit chance (since I have high access to fury unlike yours) and
187% crit damage.

Your build has
2333 power,
50% crit chance and
200% crit damage.

Can you tell me how my build is not going to kill anyone 1v1 and yours is?
And I start feeling a bit old saying over and over again that there is no build that will outburst a mesmer combo. Because now you said that Ranger is picked for exactly that purpose. And I am not even sure anymore if I should find it strange or funny.

EDIT: Aaaaand I messed up the thread, I thought this is the one I was talking about 6-2-0-6-0. This is what I get for not reading what I replied to when someone’s quoting me. Yep, that taking 2-0-6-6 decreases the damage. But for solo queue it’s still efficient. You should never even try to 1v1, to be honest. You are a zerk.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Aomine.5012:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yep, that exactly is the build that is suited for PvP.

The standard GlassBow is, with all honesty, not.
Maybe in solo queue, but definitely not an organized match.

Too bad we get out-dps hard by any other zerker classes if you traited that way. Now you lose dps and gain survivability, great, but it means you contribute even less to the team now. Even 6 2 6 0 0 has trouble killing decent Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, and even Ele “fast enough” in a group fight (if it’s 1 v 1, it’s even harsher, you probably will never kill a good Warrior, Engineer, Ele 1 on 1 before his teammates come or he outsustain you).

This is not WvW roaming, where all you need to do is stay alive.
Our selling point is the on demand range spike on crucial target. If we even lose that, we may as well not exist at all, and bring a better AOE zerk class with better dps and better utilities to the table, or another sustain celestial class for staying on nodes.

You get out-DPSed by every Zerk class regardless.

And furthermore, My build has
2442 power,
60% crit chance (since I have high access to fury unlike yours) and
187% crit damage.

Your build has
2333 power,
50% crit chance and
200% crit damage.

Can you tell me how my build is not going to kill anyone 1v1 and yours is?
And I start feeling a bit old saying over and over again that there is no build that will outburst a mesmer combo. Because now you said that Ranger is picked for exactly that purpose. And I am not even sure anymore if I should find it strange or funny.

Funny how you ignore 5% damage, 300 range, 10% attack speed (and I tested in mist, 10% attack speed increase really helps me bring down undestructable golem 10% faster, meaning a 10% increase in dps) and 100% faster arrows. Oh btw, Rune of Pack usually maintain 50% fury up-time, which is nice.

Btw, YOUR build is referring to the OP’s build right? (2 0 6 6 0)

Nah, actually 1v1 usually you can manage if you have the right build, one you feel comfortable with. With LB usually you RFed before they are at melee range and with GS you can scare the thief. And this is because the fight is over in a few second for good or worst.

However in 5v5 you would be the first to die. And keep dying. Ranger has not enough sustain to keep any fight.
Most of the times i find myself lacking mobility to finish the fleeing or sustain to stand a chance.
And the paper aeroplane like speed from the arrows is really annoying. Once again i have to loose Spotter or RaO to be able to hit something with the bow.

when will be the new trait lines available?

Huh 5v5 on a zerker ranger should be done at a very far distance away. Positioning is paramount to survival.

If the other teams thief comes after you he’s out of position and will be dead soon.

Don’t understand that statement since I find properly timed long range burst is the most potent burst in the game.

T raw.4658:

Huh 5v5 on a zerker ranger should be done at a very far distance away. Positioning is paramount to survival.

If the other teams thief comes after you he’s out of position and will be dead soon.

Don’t understand that statement since I find properly timed long range burst is the most potent burst in the game.

That would be incorrect. If Thief comes for you – he is out of position for 2 seconds – doing his only job he should – Killing high priority targets. Also – if “he is dead soon” it means all of your team is out of position and you are going to loose the game with that setup.

Plus, he can port back whenever he feels like, leaving an escape button in case of emergency.

And I’m sorry to disappoint but Ranged burst is, by all means, not potent at all. It’s a subject for Retaliation, Line of Sight, Reflects, Body-blocks, Blocks, Evades and has a slight delay due to travel time.
People like it because it’s comfortable. Not because it is effective. Everyone can sit on 1500 range sipping coffee while pressing #2 once in 10 seconds. That’s how solo queue goes. Anywhere in organized game – ranged burst is a laugh that no one finds funny.

Eurantien.4632:

Traveler runes.

I guess, yes.
It has a cost though, that rune is bad overall, and comes with a sensible DPS drop compared to Vampirism, Scholars or Pack.

It’s probably a matter of preference at this point, some variations are possible and better/worse in some situations. Takes nothing off from the fact I agree that 6/5+/2+ with LR and SoS is the way to go for DPS rangers, for now.

Uhh 1st of all if you are getting bursted down in 2 seconds by any class you need to practice you SoS hotkey.

2nd of all a thief blowing his CDS on a 100% health target that can become immune to the thief’s damage for like 10 seconds is a good thing for your team.

Positioning will keep your health above the threshold to warrant a thief’s attention

T raw.4658:

Uhh 1st of all if you are getting bursted down in 2 seconds by any class you need to practice you SoS hotkey.

2nd of all a thief blowing his CDS on a 100% health target that can become immune to the thief’s damage for like 10 seconds is a good thing for your team.

Positioning will keep your health above the threshold to warrant a thief’s attention

get rid of SoS its a crutch for inexperienced Team players even if he did every good player takes some form of condi damage be it weak or strong , in many situations 2-5 weak bleeds is enough to kill anyone using skills like SoS.

also most of the time , if a thief can’t get me down they normaly just run away for 1min try somewhere else then come back if that fails these current thiefs are just looking for quick kills nothing of the sort to try and Influence a match.

that one trick pony build has 1 Major flaw , your only postion is sitting out of postion from team support.

(in this case team support i say is not to do with boons ect but to do with Distance reaction times no one will be able to reach you that is why Rangers fit a Roaming from fight to fight applying condis right now , to quickly end a match because everyone is currently running this Port>damage meta which hardly has any condi removal because they focus so much on active defences like SoS+protect me (signet of the wild traited) for effect direct damage and passive damage increases they forget one load of condis is enough to end the fight and throw the match into the rangers favor)

that is one thing a Power ranger can not do currently you’ll pew pew from afar without nearby team support to relieve pressure from focus fire , all alone while thier active defences (the current Pvp meta) soaks up all your efforts.

drop the 1500yards range ,get dirty fighting and learn to not rely on SoS to avoid damage.

The thief has the advantage in that they are far more mobile both in straight speed as well as in vertical movement. It’s not insurmountable, but you not being on a point gives them the advantage. They can try to take you down, if it fails, very little time is lost on their part unless they were bad enough to get downed.

If it is a sword thief, you’re going to be introduced to Infiltrator’s which will let them LOS you, teleport to you from behind that terrain (it doesn’t need LOS), hit you, then teleport back behind that terrain ready to do it again. It’s beautiful when you’re the thief and somewhat rage inducing when you’re not :-p You can argue that some more proper positioning can prevent them from doing this continuously … but now what are you properly positioned for? Positioned for fighting the Thief? He has more mobility and can then disengage and reposition quicker than you. Positioned for supporting your team? Enjoy the Thief on your butt.

In my opinion, anyone wanting to run a zerk build in sPvP first has to answer the question, “How am I going to deal with the other team’s Thief”. If you can’t gain an advantage for your team versus their Thief, then you are a liability. See the Mesmer subforum for a more indepth discussion on this. That is a class that is intimately familiar with this issue.