Guild Wars 2

And you know what that purpose should be? It should be… stealth eliminator. -_- Meaning, they should make us effective against killing people like thieves and memsers that can stealth up and run a mile away while 10 wvw players are trying to chase them down but fail. =) Your thoughts.

Or maybe a new skill known as “Burrow”. Instead of stealthing… we “burrow” ourselves onto the ground, like a zergling, and surprise attack our poor victims that passes by us. And the best part is… we can stay there as long as we like. -_- Share your opinions! WHat purpose should we HAVE?!!

Just taking a longbow and Sic ‘Em allows you to be the AntiThief already. More access to apply Revealed would be nice, but I don’t think a team with a thief should look at a team with a ranger and go, “Sorry guys, this one’s going to be a wash!”

You don’t like my burrow idea? Okay. I’m sad now.

Simon.3106:

You don’t like my burrow idea? Okay. I’m sad now.

Rangers at one point (you can see it as a remnant in some of our traits) had high access to “Camouflage”, which was essentially stealth with a longer time limit that broke with movement. It was scrapped in the betas for the most part due to stealth itself being vastly superior (thieves can reapply it where rangers could not), but was essentially your burrow idea. The issue with that kind of stealth was a massive problem in DAoC, which had a stand-to-stealth system exactly like that, where stealthers would hide in zergs at choke points to pop out and kill any poor passerby’s.

I like the original point though, if there is one profession that should be able to counter stealth it should be ranger (tracker). Sadly “Sic ’em” is nowhere near good enough. We need to reveal that which is hidden, not delay a stealth for 3 seconds.

Sandpit.3467:

I like the original point though, if there is one profession that should be able to counter stealth it should be ranger (tracker). Sadly “Sic ’em” is nowhere near good enough. We need to reveal that which is hidden, not delay a stealth for 3 seconds.

Ever used Sic ‘Em when a d/p thief drops Black Powder right before the Heartseeker? He’s just wasted 8 initiative, and chances are he’ll have to waste more to survive, or drop Shadow Refuge in which case you swap to longbow, PBS him out, and further enforce Revealed on him. He’ll either die or run, happens every time.

I wish they’d make it a scout. This means they’d have to give it faster overland speed than a Warrior making them the fastest class in the game. Thieves will always have in-combat mobility advantage.

They should be able to find favorable ground to fight in thus allowing us to apply AE vulnerability on enemies or giving us greater access to AE immobilize and cripple.

I’m also cool with the stealth tracker role being improved. I think sic’em is plenty for Thieves overall but it would be nice if we had some way to counter a Mesmer’s veil in some fashion. Drop a field that would reveal any targets within but not apply a revealed debuff on them for example.

I like both ideas of anti-stealth and more mobility.

I know 90% of people will probably disagree but I think we should have 50% speed boost on signet of the hunt. Personally I find the active fairly useless compared to other classes actives unless you’re running one of those one shot wonder builds

and perhaps make all traps remove stealth, and add a trait that will apply 5-10s of revealed as well?

People made fun of what Anet said the ranger’s role was in the CDI. It was something along the lines of “party support and excellent skirmisher.”

Which is exactly what we kick kitten at doing. Spotter and FS provide a 14% damage boost to the entire party not available anywhere else, a party is just plain stupid if they don’t want a ranger for that alone.

We bring options for all sorts of additional “fill the need” party support as well. Need more condi clear? Got that covered. Need more fury? Ranger. Need more might? Ranger. Need some protection? We got that. Need some more healing? We got that too. To top it off we do excellent sustained damage, and are ridiculously hard to hit.

That’s our role. Damage boosting, general party support, doing excellent damage, and being able to dance around people in competitive play.

Not to say that we aren’t good at that (I guess i’ve always gone the “skirmishing” route) but from a wvw point of few, a lot of the stuff provided in the 3rd paragraph is provided by other classes (e.g. I nearly “always” have 25 stacks of might, so I have no point to running something to provide might) and frost spirit dies instantly :P

I like the idea of having a more unique flavor to the ranger class, as long as it doesn’t get op.

I don’t think you can balance a game around zerging. For literally every other aspect of the game, rangers are very desirable.

Rangers bring some stuff to the table for zergs. Most professions aren’t at their best in a zerg, but every brings something to the table. And in the end, zergs are about numbers and experience more than profession.

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t think you can balance a game around zerging. For literally every other aspect of the game, rangers are very desirable.

Rangers bring some stuff to the table for zergs. Most professions aren’t at their best in a zerg, but every brings something to the table. And in the end, zergs are about numbers and experience more than profession.

I think rangers are very good in zergs. With piercing arrows and 1500 range (no point taking Read The Wind since you’re not aiming for anyone in particular and just trying to get as many tags as possible, as well as the fact that it just means arrows are reflected back twice as fast) you can bring some serious backline hurt on an enemy zerg.

Burrow? We could be Junundu profession like in old days !

Viking Jorun.5413:

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t think you can balance a game around zerging. For literally every other aspect of the game, rangers are very desirable.

Rangers bring some stuff to the table for zergs. Most professions aren’t at their best in a zerg, but every brings something to the table. And in the end, zergs are about numbers and experience more than profession.

I think rangers are very good in zergs. With piercing arrows and 1500 range (no point taking Read The Wind since you’re not aiming for anyone in particular and just trying to get as many tags as possible, as well as the fact that it just means arrows are reflected back twice as fast) you can bring some serious backline hurt on an enemy zerg.

An interesting philosophical exercise is to think about how the player created meta affects zerg compositions. Right now, because player have created hammer trains, it’s hard for anything other than a hammer heavy to be a part of it (although I do agree LB rangers have a place in it.) Imagine it had never been created. The slightest shift in the meta could change everything entirely. Let’s suppose the AoE cap is removed (ok that’s a big meta change but go with it) and now zerg combat is way more skirmishy. You often see this when PUGs fight around SMC. Suddenly LB ranger become one of the most desired components. The PvP meta can change dramatically with small changes from the devs (Dhuumfire.)

Anywho…

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t think you can balance a game around zerging. For literally every other aspect of the game, rangers are very desirable.

Rangers bring some stuff to the table for zergs. Most professions aren’t at their best in a zerg, but every brings something to the table. And in the end, zergs are about numbers and experience more than profession.

I was mostly considering roaming-smallscale (2-3 parties)

With 2 or 3 people rangers are among, if not the best. We can literally fill any role. Healer, tank, damage, spike, condi spike, pressure, anything.

Also your statement that you’re always running with 25 stacks of might in a 2 or 3 person party is weird. If you’re doing that, you can massively benefit from other things a ranger can provide.

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I like both ideas of anti-stealth and more mobility.

I know 90% of people will probably disagree but I think we should have 50% speed boost on signet of the hunt. Personally I find the active fairly useless compared to other classes actives unless you’re running one of those one shot wonder builds

and perhaps make all traps remove stealth, and add a trait that will apply 5-10s of revealed as well?

I agree on the point that rangers should have the best mobility in this game, not warrior. 50% speed signet might be too much since it makes swiftness obsolete, but some other forms of extra mobility would be nice.

keenlam.4753:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I like both ideas of anti-stealth and more mobility.

I know 90% of people will probably disagree but I think we should have 50% speed boost on signet of the hunt. Personally I find the active fairly useless compared to other classes actives unless you’re running one of those one shot wonder builds

and perhaps make all traps remove stealth, and add a trait that will apply 5-10s of revealed as well?

I agree on the point that rangers should have the best mobility in this game, not warrior. 50% speed signet might be too much since it makes swiftness obsolete, but some other forms of extra mobility would be nice.

A good idea might me, someone said this already in the forums somewhere, for ANet to give us the ability to move in normal speed or faster when we’re moving back. This is a huge deal for kiting purposes to have the same speed as when you’re moving forward or sideways.

keenlam.4753:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I like both ideas of anti-stealth and more mobility.

I know 90% of people will probably disagree but I think we should have 50% speed boost on signet of the hunt. Personally I find the active fairly useless compared to other classes actives unless you’re running one of those one shot wonder builds

and perhaps make all traps remove stealth, and add a trait that will apply 5-10s of revealed as well?

I agree on the point that rangers should have the best mobility in this game, not warrior. 50% speed signet might be too much since it makes swiftness obsolete, but some other forms of extra mobility would be nice.

Yeah, the 50% signet was just an extremely simple solution, because I couldn’t really think of anything other than reworking the fundamental skills of our weapons which, knowing anet, will probably not happen for at least a decade or two.

@the other person

a trait or passive ability to walk backwards at full speed would be awesome

I’ve also thought it’d be cool if certain classes had a larger endurance pool or used less endurance per dodge. e.g. classes like guardian have 1-2 dodges because well, they’re huge bunkery type of people, whilst say, a thief or ranger would get 3-4 dodges. it might sound op but if it takes the same amount of time to regen 1 dodge regardless of class, then it would only mean 2-3 extra dodges per fight

A LB ranger being able to run at full speed backwards would be literally unkillable by many builds. In fact I’m not sure anything other than a thief could kill them at all.

Rangers are actually the most evasive class in the game so far.
The funny thing is that you have to go full melee to achieve that.

But Sw+Dagger / Greatsword is highly “all over the place” combination. We also have nice endurance regeneration possibilities.

But for Ranger builds there SHOULD be something more … Rangery… Both LB and SB are about auto-cast 1. It has nothing for damage increasing purposes and besides SB – there’s no “swift” feeling of it.

Fluffball.8307:

A LB ranger being able to run at full speed backwards would be literally unkillable by many builds. In fact I’m not sure anything other than a thief could kill them at all.

literally unkillable is a huge overstatement, imo. since most melee weapons have 1-2 leaps, an immobilize or 2, etc. etc., along with the fact that if they aren’t crippled they would be moving at the exact same speed as us. tbh, i think the only class it’d make really hard vs rangers WOULD be thief, because it would become a lot more difficult to get behind us

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Fluffball.8307:

A LB ranger being able to run at full speed backwards would be literally unkillable by many builds. In fact I’m not sure anything other than a thief could kill them at all.

literally unkillable is a huge overstatement, imo. since most melee weapons have 1-2 leaps, an immobilize or 2, etc. etc., along with the fact that if they aren’t crippled they would be moving at the exact same speed as us. tbh, i think the only class it’d make really hard vs rangers WOULD be thief, because it would become a lot more difficult to get behind us

I will literally bet my house, my wife and my firstborn that you can’t beat me on a LB ranger if I can move backwards as fast as forwards. It is INSANELY OP. If you can’t kill the ranger in those 1-2 leaps and an immobilize or 2, you can’t attack again at all.

Edit: Thought. I will duel you on a berserker ranger. You can use any class other than thief but you must have the walk command enabled. This should relatively simulate the scenario. It’s not as significant, but it gets the point across. I’ll put 50 gold up.

Fluffball.8307:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Fluffball.8307:

A LB ranger being able to run at full speed backwards would be literally unkillable by many builds. In fact I’m not sure anything other than a thief could kill them at all.

literally unkillable is a huge overstatement, imo. since most melee weapons have 1-2 leaps, an immobilize or 2, etc. etc., along with the fact that if they aren’t crippled they would be moving at the exact same speed as us. tbh, i think the only class it’d make really hard vs rangers WOULD be thief, because it would become a lot more difficult to get behind us

I will literally bet my house, my wife and my firstborn that you can’t beat me on a LB ranger if I can move backwards as fast as forwards. It is INSANELY OP. If you can’t kill the ranger in those 1-2 leaps and an immobilize or 2, you can’t attack again at all.

Edit: Thought. I will duel you on a berserker ranger. You can use any class other than thief but you must have the walk command enabled. This should relatively simulate the scenario. It’s not as significant, but it gets the point across. I’ll put 50 gold up.

this is sorta off topic so i apologize if someone is annoyed by this

I won’t put gold up because #1 I don’t have 50g at any one point #2 I’m saving for my legendary #3 I’m actually quite casual and #4 i’m not a fan of gambling, but if you want to pvp my ranger (it’s the only class i know how to play well) I’m always up for improving my skills

My point was not to PvP anyone or prove my skills. My idea was that giving a LB ranger unlimited kiting was OP. The gold thing was only to show how 100% certain I am that a LB ranger that cannot be touched is OP. Picture a condi necro atttacking this monstrosity. Maybe spectral walk gets them in the vicinity, but otherwise they are totally hosed.

Fluffball.8307:

My point was not to PvP anyone or prove my skills. My idea was that giving a LB ranger unlimited kiting was OP. The gold thing was only to show how 100% certain I am that a LB ranger that cannot be touched is OP. Picture a condi necro atttacking this monstrosity. Maybe spectral walk get them in the vicinity, but otherwise they are totally hosed.

you did suggest pvping me though… all i did was accept…

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Fluffball.8307:

My point was not to PvP anyone or prove my skills. My idea was that giving a LB ranger unlimited kiting was OP. The gold thing was only to show how 100% certain I am that a LB ranger that cannot be touched is OP. Picture a condi necro atttacking this monstrosity. Maybe spectral walk get them in the vicinity, but otherwise they are totally hosed.

you did suggest pvping me though… all i did was accept…

I didn’t realize you did. If you want to duel me with your walk button on I insist we post the results.

Fluffball… the point you made is very logical. It would be OP…. in a 1v1 fight. Sadly, do that in any 5v5 or 8v8 and I assure you that you won’t even live. No honor in those games. 3 guys will jump you and dump you before you can even shoot hunter shot on them. And just like you, I myself am and has been a LB ranger since GW1 and use my LB ranger build extensively in PvP. LB will always be my fav. =)

Regarding the stealth kill thingy, I was just thinking that maybe Anet should make anyone who is on stealth take 33% more damage… That is kind of fair right? Ranger’s “rapid fire” can kind of tail them throughout their stealth, but they will still have a great chance of escaping. Just a thought. Come on guys, it is a “ranger’s purpose” thread. Please put some inputs? I like to hear ideas.

I actually think small group WvW fights are where LB rangers shine. You need to use a melee weapon on switch though.

Also immortality with a LB is never balanced. That’s an unacceptable suggestion.

Our Zerg Busting group has been developing a Anti-Hammer train approach since hammer trains are so prevalent. I won’t say what it hinges on since we do actively GvG too and its working thus far (we are undefeated). Unfortunately, Rangers still are not a part of this approach.

Personally I don’t want Rangers to have a niche. I don’t like seeing classes pidgeonholed into specific roles because it smacks of the holy trinity this game was suppose to do away with. Warriors don’t ‘fill a niche’ they can do what they want. Same with Guards to a lesser extent.

All the other classes in the game are playing a second fiddle to the soldier classes. While Soldiers can run whatever build they want: Deeps, Support, Tank, Hammer CC…the other classes are expected to bring one thing only:

Ranger: Entangle Bot
Mesmer: Veil Bot
Necro: Boon Strip Bot
Thief: Backstab Bot
Engi: Condi Spam Bot
Ele: Static Field + Rain Bot

If you don’t slot the above abilities in your build you are basically told to GTFO by (skilled) WvW commanders. It’s not their fault either; it’s Anets. Anet made every other class a gimick class. Rangers are not alone in this problem.

I would like to see Heal as One scrapped. It’s useless.

Instead, give us a short-recharge heal (15 secs) which is considered as Survival maybe, heals for moderate amount and leaps you away from enemy for let’s say, 900 range.

Rym.1469:

I would like to see Heal as One scrapped. It’s useless.

Instead, give us a short-recharge heal (15 secs) which is considered as Survival maybe, heals for moderate amount and leaps you away from enemy for let’s say, 900 range.

I think you just described Withdraw. Would love to have that on a ranger.