Guild Wars 2

Alright, two bitter enemies, one is a ranger, the other is a mesmer. They both have a random encounter in Lion’s Arch, to the death.
The ranger and mesmer are both elites at their professions.
Meaning, game-wise they would have access to ALL of their traitlines.
Who do you think will win this fight to the death?

depends, I have beaten mesmers as a ranger and rangers as a mesmer, both quite hard to do. A mesmer has the advantage of producing a lot of clones and phantasms. however, it is possible for the ranger to get the pet to sit on the real mesmer and burn him down.

I’m having trouble deciding between mesmer and ranger for all aspects of the game myself.

Simply put, the mesmer has more tricks up its sleeve to reverse dmg onto the ranger and the ranger has the ability to take out clones using traps and focus on the mesmer with himself and the pet.

guess it depends if the ranger is quick to spot the real mesmer and if the mesmer is good enough to spot a ranger lining up for burst dmg with his bows.

Pff, mesmer by far. With my mesmer I just use my focus to reflect everything.
Focus 4 and 5 reflects if traited AND on top of that I have an utility to reflect even more. Phantasms/Clones do the job for me. Greatsword autoattack hits like a truck…
And then there’s our F1-F3, Sword invulnerability + F4 invulnerability.

Torres.2890:

Pff, mesmer by far. With my mesmer I just use my focus and reflect everything.
Focus 4 and 5 reflects if traited AND on top of that I have an utility to reflect even more. Phantasms/Clones do the job for me. Greatsword autoattack hits like a truck…

Still gonna level up a ranger though. I miss GW 1 ranger.

but what if that ranger used quickness and the gs/sword/horn?
each i would say is equal however, in a straight dps fight, i believe that the mesmer would win due to the gs hitting hard

Zeoli.3402:

Torres.2890:

Pff, mesmer by far. With my mesmer I just use my focus and reflect everything.
Focus 4 and 5 reflects if traited AND on top of that I have an utility to reflect even more. Phantasms/Clones do the job for me. Greatsword autoattack hits like a truck…

Still gonna level up a ranger though. I miss GW 1 ranger.

but what if that ranger used quickness and the gs/sword/horn?
each i would say is equal however, in a straight dps fight, i believe that the mesmer would win due to the gs hitting hard

Blink, and Mass invisilibty. That’s 9 seconds invisible. There’s also MOA for 10 seconds of kitten and Time Warp for 10 seconds of hyperactivness.
Don’t forget the mesmer staff. Chaos Armor, Chaos Storm , Bouncing attacks….+ Random boons

And… “Phase Retreat” , have fun losing target every 8 seconds (5 seconds if traited).

Ugh… Writing this makes me feel bad about rangers.
STILL gonna level up one!

So if I understood it correctly, you use 3-4 weapons at once, focus, greatsword, staff…that’s pure theorycrafting.

It depends completely on the build both have, imo mesmer has better chance of winning but it really depends. A bunker ranger has a fair chance of beating mesmers tho.

Sleepy.2647:

So if I understood it correctly, you use 3-4 weapons at once, focus, greatsword, staff…that’s pure theorycrafting.

It depends completely on the build both have, imo mesmer has better chance of winning but it really depends. A bunker ranger has a fair chance of beating mesmers tho.

Of course I don’t use 3-4 weapons at once.
What I’m trying to say is, the mesmer can counter a ranger completly. It doesn’t really matter what build he uses.

But…you understand ranger can be ranged/melee at the same time? I think not

By theorycrafting yes, mesmer can counter everything, but that’s not how it works.

i see now why they have random numbers behind the name lol. as a ranger, i vote ranger!

Sleepy.2647:

But…you understand ranger can be ranged/melee at the same time? I think not

By theorycrafting yes, mesmer can counter everything, but that’s not how it works.

This thread IS about theorycrafting.
Just like OP said; Assuming “The ranger and mesmer are both elites at their professions.”
The mesmer wins and it doesn’t require much effort.

Torres.2890:

This thread IS about theorycrafting.
Just like OP said; Assuming “The ranger and mesmer are both elites at their professions.”
The mesmer wins and it doesn’t require much effort.

Not at all, by theorycrafting every class wins, since there is always a better choice for any class.

I’m going to be a bit bias and say that the mesmer would, but only because I had my faced ripped open last night by one in sPvP.

I consider myself a pretty good player, able to 3v1 most classes with my toughness/condition build. Then this mesmer came along and was capable of burning 75% of my health away in a matter of seconds (note: I was aware of the Confusion condition and stopped my actions until it cleared). I managed to get away from their Sword ability, Blurred Frenzy, a handful of times – which was the source of their insane burst – but whenever I got them down to 10% health, they pulled tricks and slipped away…only to return to nearly-full health.

The mesmer has the upper-hand against most classes due to their tremendous burst, access to the best condition in PvP (Confusion), and the ability to swap positions with a clone to heal. While I feel a ranger has the ability to clear clones and phantasms quickly, I don’t feel they can clear them fast enough before the mesmer can unleash their burst damage and put the Ranger into a deficit.

(Final note: I was able to stay up with a lot of effort against this mesmer, but the moment another opponent came into the fight, the scales tipped violently and not in my favor.)

pick axe/x and gs or sword/x as the ranger, if he uses projectile reflects switch to melee, if he doesnt, ALWAYS attack him with axe #1 (it will render all his illusions useless, killing them almost instantly everytime) however i still think mesmer will win, he will just silly kite/run somewhere behind a wall and still shoot you through the wall with his gs attack without line-of-sight, as they always do.

Mesmer hand down.

If you sPvP a bit, you know a good mesmer always win vs a good Ranger. Mesmer has too many efficient tools.

While they hit you with 100% of their DPS, you’ll lose 30% of your dps because your melee pet is running in circle behind the mesmer. Or because your devourer is getting LoS and out of ranged.

Nero.4706:

i see now why they have random numbers behind the name lol. as a ranger, i vote ranger!

Yeah, that’s creepy. You are talking to yourself and responding to your own questions

Being both a ranger and a Mesmer… It’s tough, it’d rely greatly on who got the opening, was it a surprise? Was the ranger holding a point down an prepared? Is it close quarters etc.

If its one of the many rangers on this forum the Mesmer would win because a lot of the rangers here don’t know what they’re doing, but I don’t think that’s the case….

I’d say ranger has more scenarios that give them an advantage so ranger.

I’d say mesmer, the amount of confusion you can pop off as a shatter mesmer followed by a huge spike while you have 8 stacks of invuln. Since majority of rangers use quickness from either pet swap and/or QZ, and a shatter mes can put confusion on himself so shatter for 8 stacks of confusion while you have your quickness up does a crap ton of damage, and by the time you realize you lose 3/4 health if traited as a cd mesmer and still a decent amount if you’re not cd mesmer. Then you’ll have 3 more clones up which then you shatter when you’re in melee for 2k shatters each takes out most of the ranger health and will kill the pet with AoE. Then you just got the survivability of the mesmer in general.

Out of curiosity, would any of the spirits provide enough support for the ranger to pull off a win? In this fight, the ranger and mesmer could have everything in play, the ranger could have multiple pets helping him, he could have all of the spirits out if he so chooses as well, the mesmer could do the same with all of his utility tricks as well. Does this change the outcome of the fight?

This is a tough call, honestly. I only play ranger, and before the recent update I always felt sub par in spvp. Post update I made a beastmaster build, and so far it has been working amazingly. Thieves WTF when they don’t win against me, since they are used to stomping rangers. Mesmer clones is probably the toughest matchup for the build, though. It’s not that they kill me, just that it becomes a boring standstill. I think it would basically come down to who made the first big mistake.

Oh, if it was a “you get to use everything” fight, I think ranger would kick the mesmer across the map.

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

Oh, if it was a “you get to use everything” fight, I think ranger would kick the mesmer across the map.

lol how so?

both will go to the pub to drink

This is a pretty neat thread

I actually play both classes and due to me using the mesmer a lot, I understand many of its escapabilities and other deception tactics. So when I play my Ranger then I’m very good at beating Mesmers. The only class I can say gives me trouble is tank ele.

But honestly I feel it’s almost even. The game breaker would be if the Mesmer uses Moa and then gg.

The thing that the ranger would have going for it is the increased stats for its pet. The majority of mesmers puts 30 in the trait line of “Illusions” which would be comparable to the Beastmastery for rangers. Rangers for the most part only put 10 points in Beastmaster, if that.

Nero.8135:

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

Oh, if it was a “you get to use everything” fight, I think ranger would kick the mesmer across the map.

lol how so?

Ranger would have 2 invulns, can Rez himself 4 times, 50% up time of protection 100% on swiftness, fury, regen etc etc, it just flat out wouldn’t be fair, not to mention that because rangers are jacks of all trades and can deal some pretty sexy damage in full support builds and have some nice group support with burst damage builds having EVERYTHING would put them way above the Mesmer.

There is no possible way a Ranger could kill my Mesmer. I was killing level 80 Rangers by level 40 in WvW. For that matter any 2v1 situation where the second opponent is the Ranger, I’ll ignore the Ranger until I kill the other person, then easily kill the Ranger. The only time this is an issue is if I’m facing a D/D Elementalist, or a good Warrior at the same time I’m facing the Ranger.

jkctmc.8754:

There is no possible way a Ranger could kill my Mesmer. I was killing level 80 Rangers by level 40 in WvW. For that matter any 2v1 situation where the second opponent is the Ranger, I’ll ignore the Ranger until I kill the other person, then easily kill the Ranger. The only time this is an issue is if I’m facing a D/D Elementalist, or a good Warrior at the same time I’m facing the Ranger.

Yes, but a lot of rangers are just AWFUL, I didn’t realize how bad a lot of them were until I started pugging with other rangers, my god… They’d spend the entire instance with a dead pet, and get downed at least twice each fight, I might as well have brought under leveled players…

Fight a ranger that’s actually good and they’ll wreck you.

Expansive.3716:

This is a pretty neat thread

I actually play both classes and due to me using the mesmer a lot, I understand many of its escapabilities and other deception tactics. So when I play my Ranger then I’m very good at beating Mesmers. The only class I can say gives me trouble is tank ele.

But honestly I feel it’s almost even. The game breaker would be if the Mesmer uses Moa and then gg.

The thing that the ranger would have going for it is the increased stats for its pet. The majority of mesmers puts 30 in the trait line of “Illusions” which would be comparable to the Beastmastery for rangers. Rangers for the most part only put 10 points in Beastmaster, if that.

Thanks my friend

For sheer options i’d say mesmer, mesmers have so many options in a fight, rangers are still quite limited, could go both ways but i bet on mesmer because they are pretty overpowered..

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

There is no possible way a Ranger could kill my Mesmer. I was killing level 80 Rangers by level 40 in WvW. For that matter any 2v1 situation where the second opponent is the Ranger, I’ll ignore the Ranger until I kill the other person, then easily kill the Ranger. The only time this is an issue is if I’m facing a D/D Elementalist, or a good Warrior at the same time I’m facing the Ranger.

Yes, but a lot of rangers are just AWFUL, I didn’t realize how bad a lot of them were until I started pugging with other rangers, my god… They’d spend the entire instance with a dead pet, and get downed at least twice each fight, I might as well have brought under leveled players…

Fight a ranger that’s actually good and they’ll wreck you.

In a dungeon – if the boss can off your pets easily, use ranged pets. Or pets you’re only using for the skill (Red Moa, Jungle Stalker, Blue Moa, etc. for buffing. Wolf for Fear, since it goes through boss immunity, Hyena can summon a sacrificial unit with half power every 20 sec… etc.)

I think it’s a pretty even fight. Depends a lot on their specs ofc, but ye i have to admit good mesmers are not the easiest targets for a ranger.

Expansive.3716:

Rangers for the most part only put 10 points in Beastmaster, if that.

Lol so true.

Polaritie.4851:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

There is no possible way a Ranger could kill my Mesmer. I was killing level 80 Rangers by level 40 in WvW. For that matter any 2v1 situation where the second opponent is the Ranger, I’ll ignore the Ranger until I kill the other person, then easily kill the Ranger. The only time this is an issue is if I’m facing a D/D Elementalist, or a good Warrior at the same time I’m facing the Ranger.

Yes, but a lot of rangers are just AWFUL, I didn’t realize how bad a lot of them were until I started pugging with other rangers, my god… They’d spend the entire instance with a dead pet, and get downed at least twice each fight, I might as well have brought under leveled players…

Fight a ranger that’s actually good and they’ll wreck you.

In a dungeon – if the boss can off your pets easily, use ranged pets. Or pets you’re only using for the skill (Red Moa, Jungle Stalker, Blue Moa, etc. for buffing. Wolf for Fear, since it goes through boss immunity, Hyena can summon a sacrificial unit with half power every 20 sec… etc.)

hahahahahahaha, that’s cute, you think i’m having issues with the pets in instances, no it’s other rangers, will my pet die? Yes, mostly because he gets hit by some stupid gimicky move that i can’t make him dodge (Jade Maw you prick!!), but for the most part they keep chugging along doing their thing!

i would have said mesmer as well, but i destroyed a bunch of shatter kitten in tpvp on my tanky condi ranger. hm. i guess they needs moar might stackz. kill illusions. stack conditions. stay out of storm. profit.

I dont see how this is even a debate. I could See this as Mesmer vs Guard vs Thief. But Ranger? Really? I have an 80 Ranger and all but come on man REALLY?? Yes a Ranger can beat a Mesmer, but if we’re talking about 2 elite players, theres no build or weapon set out there that a Ranger cant nullify with any of his weapons or just a few utilities. Mesmer is literally built to kill you 1 on 1. Its the wizard version of the thief, its meant to kill you before you can properly respond to its actions, except in this fight the Ranger can know exactly whats going on and still lose. Mesmer with sword/x will kill any Ranger build. And what is this talk of Rangers with GS? If I see a Ranger with a GS ill leave him for last and kill all his friends first while he pokes me with that overgrown nonsense. Ranger has childs DPS with that bad boy. Only thing I could see a ranger doing is traps with axe/torch and hoping the mesmer messing up with his key combinations

I would like to clarify the topic, it was mentioned earlier that this is a thread based upon theorycrafting, for example, the mesmer slows down time, in hopes of picking the ranger off, but the ranger calls forth the spirit of storm to move at speeds that allow the ranger to keep up with the mesmer etc

Nero.8135:

I would like to clarify the topic, it was mentioned earlier that this is a thread based upon theorycrafting, for example, the mesmer slows down time, in hopes of picking the ranger off, but the ranger calls forth the spirit of storm to move at speeds that allow the ranger to keep up with the mesmer etc

this is not theorycrafting, thats roleplaying on pen & paper xD

speed buffs never “compensate” for slows like cripple or freeze by the way, even IF the speed buff would provide you the same amount of speed in % than the slow-debuff would, you would still be slower than normal (i.e. 50% slow and a 50% speed buff results in 75% of normal speed)

the problem with a ranger winning is the skill level. Mesmer wins hands down, assuming they dont kitten and end up in entangle. The only was I see a ranger winning is a straight burst build and then immobilizing/ knock down the mesmer and eat him. If the ranger doesnt end the fight in a about 10 seconds, they’ll lose.

thinking 30/30/5/0/5 sword/axe
utilities QZ, muddy terrain, SoH and Entangle for elite

Mesmer. Better survivability + can burn the ranger down with conditions easier. Pet gets on you? Use Decoy and go invisible for a few seconds to break targeting and agro. Spam illusions on the ranger, ignore the pet by kiting, and eventually you’ll win through attrition.

For a frame of reference, I play a Mesmer, haven’t played Ranger at all (I’m here as I’m thinking of starting an alt).

First:

Torres.2890:

Blink, and Mass invisilibty. That’s 9 seconds invisible. There’s also MOA for 10 seconds of kitten and Time Warp for 10 seconds of hyperactivness.

You just listed all 3 elites. If you find any opponent of any class who can have all 3 elites up at the same time, your goose is probably cooked.

But to address the issue, it’s really just like any other matchup in this game. How are you built and how is your opponent built? Both Glass Cannon? Both Condition / Bunker? Specific styles and builds will be inherently stronger against others. I see some of you saying you hate getting hit by the huge shatter and Blurred Frenzy. Others say they hate getting whittled down by the Staff guy who’s impossible to kill. Of course, those two guys CANNOT be the same guy. It’s up to you to determine which he is and if your build + ability can counter.

Also, I say this after just a cursory glance at the Ranger utilities, I would probably never run a Ranger in a pvp situation without Lightning Reflexes. I’m not sure what else you have for a stun break (especially one that moves you) but that’s really going to mess up those shatter mesmers if you pop it when they try to pull the root+frenzy+shatter combo. Condition removal at the right time is also big, as you’ll clear the bleeds and confusion (which I think is probably akin to losing your pet as far as damage reduction goes).

Edit I just re-read the original post, and I don’t think he was asking what I thought he was asking. If this is supposed to be two characters built 30/30/30/30/30, who would win … I don’t think the Ranger has enough on-demand condition removal to survive the 20+ stacks of confusion I would put on him.

a mesmer vs ranger fight can potentially never end, but a mesmer has a very hard time holding a node against a ranger.

A very interesting question. I think the answer lies in the details on this one.

If the two just happen to meet in the middle of LA, with no prior knowledge of engaging eachother, then the mesmer is more likely to have a build that will be capable of handling the ranger. The generic builds I play in both PvE and PvP would fail miserably at handling a chance encounter with something like a shatter build or phantasm spam.

If they know ahead of time, and they know how to counter eachother well, I think the ranger will win. I find mesmers very gimmicky, and if you figure out what build they’re running and dodge, heal, kill clones, and CC effectively then they’re a piece of cake to shut down. Plus a build made around countering mesmers is much more effective than a build made around countering rangers, since rangers are the masters of hybrid and can shift their fighting style mid-fight much easier.

In a purely hypothetical, slightly RP situation where both classes have access to EVERYTHING, it’s really a toss-up of who gets the jump first. A mesmer with a heads-up can just reflect, shatter, and wtfdefense everything a ranger can throw at them, winning by attrition. Usually mesmer defenses are only kept in check by the fact that they can’t do all these things at once. Same with if they had a referee’d encounter where they both engaged at the same time. But a ranger getting a few free shots at the mesmer will pretty much guarantee they’re dead before they can react (QZ + shortbow/longbow + sic ’em + signet DPS actives + RaO + traps +…).

a condition bunker ranger can wipe the floor with just about any prof/spec, 1v1. can even kill other bunkers with correct timing. i dont have any issues with shatter facerollers in tpvp.