Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Rogue Potato.4723

Rogue Potato.4723

So iv’e noticed a lot of posts about; rangers getting kicked from PvE groups because they’re a hinderance, not having enough DPS, being a useless LB ranger in dungeons because you don’t kill as quickly as melee etc. So I decided to do some actual experimenting.

All of these results were done with an exotic weapon, no armour or buffs of any kind, no traits applied either, and against the light training golem in the heart of the mists. I killed it 3 times for each weapon and recorded the times taken, then took an average.

Longbow at max range:
Average time – 35.69s. (34.12, 37.82, 35.13)
I only used skills 1 and 2 for this as they arguably do the most damage.

Longbow close up:
Average time – 40.183(33333…)s (40.56, 40.18, 39.81)
Again, only using skills 1 and 2.

Great sword:
Average time – 40.12s (40.03, 40.00, 40.35)
Only using skills 1 and 2.

Sword/Axe
Average time – 33.55s (33.87, 33.69, 33.09)
I used skills 1 and 4 for this… Not sure if that was the best way but I figured as its a weapon combo, I would have to use at least one skill from each weapon.

Sword/Dagger:
Average time – 29.593(33333)s. (29.81, 29.00, 29.97)
I used skills 1, 4 and 5 this time… I realise this somewhat in-validates the experiment as I used more skills, but this is definitely a condition based weapon set (poison + bleeding + cripple) so I rationalised I would have to use all the conditions to get its best potential.

Short Bow:
Average time – 39.89s (39.72, 40.57, 39.38)
I used skills 1 and 2 and didn’t flank.

Short Bow w/ flank:
Average time – 26.726s (26.65, 26.62, 26.91)
This surprised me, using skills 1 and 2 and flanking (which you should be doing with a SB) turned out to kill the quickest, giving it a higher overall DPS (I think? I’m still pretty new to this so don’t hate).

By adding traits, using utilities and playing the classes more intelligently, I’m sure you could get massively varying results, but with just the weapons alone this is what you’ll turn up.

Greatsword + longbow (close up) kill at roughly the same speed.
Longbow at max range is a little faster (about 5 seconds)
Sword + Axe is faster than that by about 2 seconds
Sword + dagger is faster than that by about 4 seconds
The SB without flanking will take roughly the same time as a great sword or longbow (close up)
The SB with flanking will kill the fastest, faster than S+D by 3 seconds. Making it 15 seconds faster than a great sword.

Again, this is just with the weapons. With 25 might and traits and utilities etc you can get a longbow or a great sword hitting 10K plus which may make it faster than a short bow with the same sort of buffs, I haven’t got all day to test everything though I may do that one day.

I’m still not sure how valid this is therefore, but it seems to state that if your dungeon group wants you to melee because it’s higher dmg or kills quicker, you should tell them the short bow is what you’re gonna use instead.

I’d be very interested to hear why you think I’m completely wrong, so please go ahead. As I said I’m not the proest pro out there and there is a lot in this game that contributes to overall damage and kill time which I’m ignoring, and so I probably AM completely wrong. Still it was fun to do.

:)

“When there’s no point in doing something, the best idea is not to do it.”

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

So iv’e noticed a lot of posts about; rangers getting kicked from PvE groups because they’re a hinderance, not having enough DPS

Made by the same kind of people that don’t understand why the meta is how it is and still make LFG posts looking for a second warrior for “dps”. People that think waiting another 2 minutes is worth not bringing an engie, a ranger or even a necro instead of waiting for that “perfect comp”. It’s laughable. None of the classes are “an hindrance”, bad players are.

As for you conclusion, sword/axe is the ranger’s current best damaging weaponset for doing dungeons with a fully buffed team – the potential damage puts the ranger in the mid tier, with thief and ele being in the top tier. The shortbow doesn’t come close in a scenario like this, and is furthermore limited by the bleed cap and by being a single target weapon.

So yeah, no, telling them you’re gonna use shortbow instead when they want you to run the meta is a valid reason for them to kick you.

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

All of these results were done with an exotic weapon, no armour or buffs of any kind, no traits applied either, and against the light training golem in the heart of the mists. I killed it 3 times for each weapon and recorded the times taken, then took an average.

This is your downfall.
Your test is kind of irrelevant.

Who cares about naked-stat test? The coefficients are as important as traits that can affect the numbers.

To begin with: Base condition damage is way too high. Base direct damage is way too low. Furthermore, condition DPS is not affected by any trait (apart from passive boost in terms of duration increase) and scales up additively while direct damage can be boosted by up to 40% (I think…?) and scales in multiplying matter.

To comment on the shortbow – of course it has the fastest kill-time. It’s based on condition damage which is superior to direct one without stats. It always has been. Direct damage scales out of 3 stats. Conditions do only from 1.

Your test has no real value.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

@ Lazze
Is the Ranger’s DPS calculated to be the mid tier?
As far as I am aware, their tunnel sequence has the highest potential with highest numbers as long as 8 second fight goes.

I terms of 15+ – Morph Necro is the top.
In terms of semi-instant burst – Ele>Warr>guard is the thing.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Testing like this, unfortunately, is way too rough to get any valuable conclusions from. Here’s a few reasons why:

- In a PvE group setting, you won’t get your group’s buffs when at long range
– You can’t get long ranged DPS in stack scenarios
– Condition damage is disproportionately effective against heavy gollums in the Mists since their armor doesn’t reduce conditions (this is why the short bow looks amazing in HotM tests, despite being lackluster in dungeons).
– Damage results will scale to be very different once you have 25 stacks of might + fury (i.e. in a dungeon environment).

There have already been DPS comparisons which use math to calculate the DPS of weapons under dungeon conditions, which prove that rangers aren’t as high dps compared to other classes. Fortunately, however, bringing frost spirit with spotter will make up for this deficiency.

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

@ Lazze
Is the Ranger’s DPS calculated to be the mid tier?
As far as I am aware, their tunnel sequence has the highest potential with highest numbers as long as 8 second fight goes.

I terms of 15+ – Morph Necro is the top.
In terms of semi-instant burst – Ele>Warr>guard is the thing.

Well, yeah. Top mid if you calculate 30 seconds rotations for each classes with all buffs available. It’s just an expected estimate which people usually refer to when they calculate dps for dungeons.

If you wanna point out situational fights like in AC where the bosses literally melt, then yes, the ranger’s damage potential is pretty much up right up there. Our initial dps is immense.

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

@ Lazze
Is the Ranger’s DPS calculated to be the mid tier?
As far as I am aware, their tunnel sequence has the highest potential with highest numbers as long as 8 second fight goes.

I terms of 15+ – Morph Necro is the top.
In terms of semi-instant burst – Ele>Warr>guard is the thing.

Well, yeah. Top mid if you calculate 30 seconds rotations for each classes with all buffs available. It’s just an expected estimate which people usually refer to when they calculate dps for dungeons.

If you wanna point out situational fights like in AC where the bosses literally melt, then yes, the ranger’s damage potential is pretty much up right up there. Our initial dps is immense.

Um, I mean … Dungeons as such melt in Zerk Setup. And it’s not even considered competitive. Drop 2 icebows and the dungeons is as good as done, right?

But the DPS got me curious (since I got to play warrior and guard only a few times). Thanks for pointing that out.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Um, I mean … Dungeons as such melt in Zerk Setup. And it’s not even considered competitive. Drop 2 icebows and the dungeons is as good as done, right?

But the DPS got me curious (since I got to play warrior and guard only a few times). Thanks for pointing that out.

Just another reason why it’s laughable that people want “optimal” comps for certain dungeons. Drop an icebow for the ranger while using SotW and QZ, and poof, the boss is dead. It makes the profession specific dps calculations kinda redundant in certain scenarios.

Speaking of, rangers were actually the third best damage dealing class while using FGS when that used to be a thing due to SotW, and that was before the september buffs.

The conjure weapon nonsense is just cancer.

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Posted by: Sebrent.3625

Sebrent.3625

A few things:
(1) You didn’t use any traits … traits play a huge part of overall DPS
(2) You didn’t take into account bleeding being maxed by the group’s own procs (this affects Shortbow quite a bit)

If you’re wanting to compare damage, there are already several sources. Death and Taxes has several members that have already done the legwork time and time again for this.

If you want to compare various Ranger weapon skills, I did this a month or so ago:

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Rangers Highest DPS - Sort of Proven

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Sebrent’s calculations should become a sticky in my opinion.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Solandri.9640

Solandri.9640

If you want to compare various Ranger weapon skills, I did this a month or so ago:

Some of those DPS figures are for the rate at which the target is damaged, while others are for the rate at which the ranger delivers damage.

For example, Bonfire takes just a half second to drop, which gives it about 1500 DPS in terms of the rate at which the ranger delivers damage. But it takes 8 seconds to apply that damage, so is only 96 DPS for the rate at which the target takes damage. The latter is what you have in your spreadsheet.

Barrage is another skill that acts like this. It only takes 2.75 sec to fire the Barrage, but total time from when you fire the skill to when it ends is around the 6.6 sec you have listed.

You’ve done the reverse for Hunter’s Call – using its 1 sec cast time as the duration, when the birds take about 5 sec to deliver the damage. So for HC the DPS figure you’ve listed is the rate at which the ranger applies damage, not the rate at which the target takes damage. Throw Torch is another skill where you’ve calculated the rate at which the ranger applies damage.

The distinction is important because after you drop Bonfire, you do not stand there doing nothing for the next 8 seconds. You can continue with other attacks. In terms of maximizing your ranger’s DPS, you want to calculate the rate at which the ranger applies damage. So HC and Throw Torch are calculated correctly, and you need to modify the times on Barrage and Bonfire.

Path of Scars hits twice pretty reliably. At least in PvE. Maybe just add a second row for its DPS if it hits twice.

You have the coefficient and time for Swoop reversed. Also, I’m pretty sure the time for Swoop is not fixed. It seems to end prematurely when you reach the target (giving it higher DPS). So when used from melee range it takes closer to 1/2 or 3/4 sec, giving it DPS close to Maul.