Guild Wars 2

So, I was recently convinced to start playing GW2. Overall, I am very happy with the game. My question to the community is if anyone else has the feeling that Rangers are currently being put into a fairly defined path with no real way to venture out of it…

1) We must use our pets.
2) Pet’s always pull agro while running PvE.
3) Not all weapons are truly viable.
4) Some trait lines don’t make sense.
5) A general lack of creative control over how we use our basic talents/pets/skills.

Now, to elaborate…

A ranger’s DPS is highly dependent on keeping a pet alive, if a pet is not active our DPS takes a significant hit. There is no other class that takes as severe of a punishment for “losing” this basic skill. Why must so much of my DPS be dependent on a A.I. controlled ally (who is un-responsive to my desires much of the time)? Top that off with the auto-tanking desires of my pet and I can’t help be frustrated at times.

TL:DR; I would like to see the game offer flexibility on the “pet” option. If I choose not to use a pet, I shouldn’t have a severely kittened DPS output. If I don’t want my pet to “tank” a battle, I should be able to toggle it off.

In the same way, A ranger should have the option to focus more heavily on their pet. The beast-master trait line is a great start to this, however as it stands, pets have a “base standard” that is unaffected by our personal stats. I would like to be able to “donate” some of my own attributes to my pet if needed. If a could be best handled by the DOT of the cat’s, but they don’t have enough natural survivability for the fight, I should be able to donate some of my vitality or toughness to ensure that my cat’s DPS is never lost due to a death.

TL:DR; Rangers should be able to donate stats to their pets to ensure pet’s have a maximum up-time.

As it has been mentioned by many people, not all weapons are truly viable. At the moment from a pure numbers standpoint. Short-bow and Swords are the strongest choices. Using something else is simply kittening yourself in one way or another. Some weapons have a “place” (longbow/axe)… but simply do not compare to SB or S.

TL:DR; Rangers are unable to stray from the standard weapon-set without being kittened heavily.

Some trait lines do not make sense. The best example of this is having a large buffs for traps buried in the Skirmishing Line at the 30-point level. Traps do not benefit from Crit… either make traps/conditions able to crit at a reduced amount or move this buff to a more viable line.

TL:DR; Condition Rangers//Trap Rangers are kittened via trait lines.

Due to the lack of flexibility over control of pets and a limited weapon set, I feel like there is a limitation being placed on Rangers that lowers the amount of fun, creativity, and over-all enjoyability of the class. With a few minor tweaks, the ranger class could be drastically expanded and improved to better suit all of the wanna-be Robin Hoods like myself.

Thoughts?

The truth of the matter is that the devs focused on getting one truly viable spec for every class out the door for launch. They know that a lot of the trait lines and weapons for all classes need further balancing to be viable. The limitation you’re experience is not with Ranger only. In fact it’s much worse with some other classes. Devs are aware of the problem and will address it in time.

Seen this thread so many times.

Been playing my ranger since headstart, got to 80 a week and a half ago.

Had the same concern about pet survivability on lower levels because the pet seems to agro everything first. Ended up playing with 2 bears just so that my pets could survive. Becomes a moot point in the higher levels though because the mobs suddenly start to target you a lot more then your pet. (I sent my pet to agro a lvl 76 dredge this morning, with my ranger doing nothing but standing in place, and the dredge completely ignored my pet and zeroed in on my ranger, even when I just stood there and took his attack while my pet was still attacking him.)

The devs made sure one weapon combination was easy to learn and use on every class at the start… the rest of them usually need some getting used to and aren’t as straight foward as the others. I’ve been running a shortbow/greatsword combo ever since I hit lvl 30, and for a long while it’s been mostly shortbow, I’ve gotten tired of it and learned to used my greatsword efficiently. I’m now having fun finding champion mobs and soloing them in melee with my greatsword. While it’s far from being the most powerful weapon damage wise, the ranger’s greatsword is (as far as I know) the only weapon in the game that has an evade on a 2 second cooldown, that cooldown being your first two attacks with your 1 skill. Learn to use it properly and you can dodge 90% of the damage comming at you. That, in my opinion, becomes really OP in the hands of an expert (and I’m far from being one yet).

I’ve built a pretty mean condition damage/thoughness build that I use (with slight variations) both in sPvP and in PvE, using a greatsword and a shortbow and not only can I solo champions (even those that summon mobs to help them) but so far I’ve placed top 3 on most of my sPvP matches for my team… although I’ll admit I’m only up to rank 9 so far, haven’t played that much sPvP.

The only place where I’ve found the greatsword to be surpassed by an axe/horn combo is in WvW, because the usefulness of the speed buff of the horn 5 skill is just hard to beat in WvW.

TLDR – What the OP says is true when you’re still getting used to the ranger, but options for both pets and weapons open up as you master and lvl up the class.

I can only really agree with point 3. The weapons we have are often more of a hindrance to play than a help.

1h sword animation locking makes it worthless. Greatsword is wholly underpowered for being a 2h melee weapon. The longbow’s range tiers make it worthless as a main weapon (and it’s underpowered), but it’s got good situational usefulness. Basically, if you have the ability to keep your distance, they’re useful. In my experience though, that’s prettykittenrare. The shortbow ain’t bad if you want to run a condition or precision build, but it’s underwhelming as far as raw damage output otherwise. Axes are decent though, but they don’t give you an option for single target burst when you need it.

Basically, all the main-hand options are weak, useless or situational, with axes being the most versatile and effective of the lot. The off-hands are excellent though. Too bad so many of the main-hand options are two-handed, so can’t be paired with a good off-hand. All you have is swords or axes, which basically means all you have is axes.

I’ve played every profession but Warrior now and none of the weapon options on any of them, have been as disappointing as the Ranger. Thankfully, other aspects of the profession (one of them being pets), still makes it worthwhile to play.

If you want your pets to survive… manage them better (e.g. hotkey all their abilities, including retreat/swap) and also spec into your pet’s survivability or better yet, choose a beefier (bear – less dps, more health) pet option. 75%-85% of your dps comes from you, if your pet is doing more than you, or even significantly more than you, something is wrong with your play style/build.

I think it is safe to say that every class in the game has some major issues, some more then others. In time things will be fixed up and balanced.

I am sure A.Net is aware of many issues, hell they stickyed a Bug post thread for Rangers. Just like any other MMO at release the main focus is to not balance classes but to fix major bugs and problems with the game as a whole. From there they will branch out to class balancing, crafting balance, Dungeon tuning etc…

docMed.7692:

If you want your pets to survive… manage them better (e.g. hotkey all their abilities, including retreat/swap) and also spec into your pet’s survivability or better yet, choose a beefier (bear – less dps, more health) pet option. 75%-85% of your dps comes from you, if your pet is doing more than you, or even significantly more than you, something is wrong with your play style/build.

You completely mis-understood what he was saying or you just did not read his post.

His point was it should not require a pet build to make the pet viable if A.Net is emphasizing the amount of damage output our currents pet have.

InMemoryOf.7346:

A ranger’s DPS is highly dependent on keeping a pet alive, if a pet is not active our DPS takes a significant hit.

Honestly, no it doesn’t. Our pets don’t actually do very much damage, even when supported by traits. They hit fairly hard, but attack far, far slower than we do and have pathing issues reaching and keeping up with moving targets, especially enemy players in PvP. If you simply keep your pet at your side in passive mode and just make strategic use of its F2 ability instead of sending it in to attack you will notice little or no decrease in effective killing power.

As it has been mentioned by many people, not all weapons are truly viable. At the moment from a pure numbers standpoint. Short-bow and Swords are the strongest choices.

“Viable” is a very loaded term in game design discussions. In my experience, many people who are into theorycrafting conflate “viable” with “optimal,” and therefore anything that isn’t optimal is useless. I also think it’s absurd to judge a weapon sets viability “from a pure numbers standpoint.” Your weapon choice is the source of 5 of your 11 active skills. It’s not a decision you should make based purely on numbers.

The shortbow is clearly very good single-target DPS with nice control options and works well for skirmishing. All ranger players seem to agree on that and it’s probably the most popular ranger weapon. However, your assertion that the sword is our only other “truly viable” weapon would probably be scoffed at by many players. While the weapon does deal very high melee-range AE DPS, the autoattack chain nearly immobilizing you is a huge drawback that leads many to disfavor the weapon.

Similarly, there are powerful niche uses for many of the weapons you seem to think aren’t viable. The longbow has a million uses in WvW with it’s ability to lay down a large-radius cripple field from up to 1500 range that can tag invisible enemies, drive enemies back from keep parapets, damage siege engines out of line of sight, prevent enemies from escaping your group and so on. The axe is our best weapon for PvE events and farming with its ability to quickly tag multiple enemies. It can also deal serious damage to the first of two targets you’re fighting because of the rebound making the autoattack hit the first target twice. The only really underpowered weapons we seem to have are the greatsword and speargun, which suffer from an overall lack of damage moreso than a dirth of good skills.

Some trait lines do not make sense. The best example of this is having a large buffs for traps buried in the Skirmishing Line at the 30-point level. Traps do not benefit from Crit…

This is true from a min-maxing perspective, but it’s not a problem unique to rangers. Every other profession has the same issue with not being able to perfectly optimize their active traits with the passive trait line bonuses to make min-maxed builds. That leads me to believe that it’s probably an intentional part of the design. At any rate, it’s not a ranger issue – it’s prevalent throughout the entire trait system.

Responding to some of the points that have been raised.

1) The game was released and the fact that there are tons of issues that the devs are dealing with is very understandable. My request is not that the dev team make these changes right now. It is simply to begin to unite the Ranger community on the issues that we are having with our class and to be able to rally as a whole to express these requests to the dev team.

2) The concern with the current pet system is that we MUST use it in order to be viable. There is no control over how much of our DPS our pets do AND there is no control over our pets tanking damage or simply being a supplement to our damage. What happens if a player decides that they do not want to rely on a pet anymore? For example, They simply want to be a ranged DPS without the worry of losing 20% of their damage output because an A.I. made a poor choice.

The issue comes that we a noticeable amount of our damage coming from a source that we have a limited amount of control over.

3) The reason that I am concerned about the weapon situation is because a player should feel like they can play with any weapon they choose without feeling like they are at a disadvantage in either PvE or PvP.

InMemoryOf.7346:

What happens if a player decides that they do not want to rely on a pet anymore? For example, They simply want to be a ranged DPS without the worry of losing 20% of their damage output because an A.I. made a poor choice.

Where does the 20% number come from? I greatly doubt my pet actually accounts for anywhere near that percentage of my total damage output.

It is seriously quite viable to just keep your pet in passive mode at your side and only use its F2 ability, or occasionally order it to attack a nearby exposed target. That’s how I use mine in WvW and I certainly don’t suffer from a lack of killing power.

I’ll agree with you that pets are kind of a lame mechanic and I’d trade mine for a passive damage boost under most circumstances, but the very fact that they’re so weak and unreliable means that we don’t rely on them. The ranger class is quite powerful and competitive while almost ignoring the fact that the pet exists. So if you don’t like using it, don’t. Just select one with a useful F2 skill and put it in passive mode.

I just use bear type pets and put no talents or slots skills into boosting pet dmg or survival. That being said I destroy mobs in seconds sometimes taking on upwards of 4-5 at a time with my traps build.

I guess what I am trying to say is I don’t really see our pet being a big part of our dps. Unless you trait into beast mastery I find that my personal dps is just fine without my pet.

Stice.5204:

InMemoryOf.7346:

A ranger’s DPS is highly dependent on keeping a pet alive, if a pet is not active our DPS takes a significant hit.

Honestly, no it doesn’t. Our pets don’t actually do very much damage, even when supported by traits. They hit fairly hard, but attack far, far slower than we do and have pathing issues reaching and keeping up with moving targets, especially enemy players in PvP. If you simply keep your pet at your side in passive mode and just make strategic use of its F2 ability instead of sending it in to attack you will notice little or no decrease in effective killing power.

As it has been mentioned by many people, not all weapons are truly viable. At the moment from a pure numbers standpoint. Short-bow and Swords are the strongest choices.

“Viable” is a very loaded term in game design discussions. In my experience, many people who are into theorycrafting conflate “viable” with “optimal,” and therefore anything that isn’t optimal is useless. I also think it’s absurd to judge a weapon sets viability “from a pure numbers standpoint.” Your weapon choice is the source of 5 of your 11 active skills. It’s not a decision you should make based purely on numbers.

The shortbow is clearly very good single-target DPS with nice control options and works well for skirmishing. All ranger players seem to agree on that and it’s probably the most popular ranger weapon. However, your assertion that the sword is our only other “truly viable” weapon would probably be scoffed at by many players. While the weapon does deal very high melee-range AE DPS, the autoattack chain nearly immobilizing you is a huge drawback that leads many to disfavor the weapon.

Similarly, there are powerful niche uses for many of the weapons you seem to think aren’t viable. The longbow has a million uses in WvW with it’s ability to lay down a large-radius cripple field from up to 1500 range that can tag invisible enemies, drive enemies back from keep parapets, damage siege engines out of line of sight, prevent enemies from escaping your group and so on. The axe is our best weapon for PvE events and farming with its ability to quickly tag multiple enemies. It can also deal serious damage to the first of two targets you’re fighting because of the rebound making the autoattack hit the first target twice. The only really underpowered weapons we seem to have are the greatsword and speargun, which suffer from an overall lack of damage moreso than a dirth of good skills.

Some trait lines do not make sense. The best example of this is having a large buffs for traps buried in the Skirmishing Line at the 30-point level. Traps do not benefit from Crit…

This is true from a min-maxing perspective, but it’s not a problem unique to rangers. Every other profession has the same issue with not being able to perfectly optimize their active traits with the passive trait line bonuses to make min-maxed builds. That leads me to believe that it’s probably an intentional part of the design. At any rate, it’s not a ranger issue – it’s prevalent throughout the entire trait system.

Not true, my pet hits for almost 1k a hit non crit on medium armor targets, and can get up to 4k crits with 1 attack. Thats significant.

I agree with the OP that they need to bring back the gw1 styled rangers, either make pets optional, or make it so we can transfer damage from our pet to our ranger, I dont like having 30-40% of my damage based on a weak pet that dies insanely fast, and cant path right. Id like to be the only output of damage if that was possible, they just couldnt make a normal archer huh. Longbow is also the weakest ranger weapon in certain areas, sure rapid fire hits hard when it his but its a massive 1 trick pony, they should lower the cd on it even more.