Guild Wars 2

When the rifle was first invented, rifling a barrel was an expensive manual process. Rifles were expensive weapons, only available for elite soldiers and snipers. In America, some of the first to adopt weapons with rifled barrels were a unique type of special forces known as Rangers:

Roger’s Rangers were skilled woodsmen who fought for the British during the French and Indian War. They frequently undertook winter raids against French outposts, blended native-American techniques with pioneering skills and operated in terrain where traditional militias were ineffective.

The American ranger tradition actually began back in the early 17th century on the frontier, according to historian Glenn Williams at the U.S. Army Center of Military History.

“They would ‘range’ between one post and another,” said Williams, explaining that the rangers were usually full-time Soldiers drawn from the militia and paid by colonial governments to patrol between frontier posts and “look for Indian signs” to provide early warning of hostile Indian intent.

Rifles, at that time, were used primarily by frontiersmen in the middle colonies of Maryland, Pennsylvania and Virginia, according to Williams. The New England militias strictly used muskets, he said. Muskets were more effective for massed volley fire, he explained, and could be reloaded three times as fast. The sturdier, stouter muskets could also mount bayonets.

Rifles, though, had three times the range and could be effective up to 300 yards away. The sharpshooters in the Continental Army companies often picked British officers off from a distance, Williams said, bringing complaints that the colonials “didn’t fight fair.”

http://www.army.mil/article/80795/Rangers_among_first_leaders_of_America_s_Army/

Basically, give Rangers rifles. Or stop calling them Rangers.

I suppose these American soldiers of yours also summoned spirits and tamed pets? People need to stop deluding themselves into thinking that the ranger class in gw2 is something other than a druid or naturalist. Let me guess, you want rangers to have pistols too right?

And as if the name Ranger is exclusive to some american soldier, give me a break. The ranger in gw2 is more based off of something like Aragorn, who was a ranger, than whatever you linked.

warriorjrd.8695:

I suppose these American soldiers of yours also summoned spirits and tamed pets?

I laughed out loud at this, thank you.

Call them Druids then. Or hunters, which they basically are.

And I don’t see Aragorn summoning spirits or using a pet either, so your example is totally invalid.

Wanderer.3248:

Call them Druids then. Or hunters, which they basically are.

And I don’t see Aragorn summoning spirits or using a pet either, so your example is totally invalid.

I suppose you’re ignorant to the fact the current ranger is a combination of 3 classes. One of which was pretty much the equivalent of aragorn. The other was the spirits, and the third was the beastmaster. Don’t quote me on any of that, as I’m not 100% sure (I do know ranger was multiple classes merged though) Anet merged them into the modern ranger. As I said before, the ranger is more based off aragorn than the soldiers you linked, I never said entirely.

Rifle just doesn’t fit with the ranger lore. The only weapon I can see rangers getting in the future is a staff that would benefit from investment into the nature magic line (much like longbow benefits from investment into marksmanship). Or maybe if anet added new weapons we could get a 2H spear, or perhaps a crossbow. But rifle just doesn’t suit the gw2 ranger.

Rifle doesn’t fit with any of the old lore, because rifles weren’t around then.

Rangers (and woodsmen, skirmishers, scouts, frontiersmen, trackers, hunters etc etc, whatever you want to call them) would be the first to adopt rifles, because of their accuracy and their expense.

You know who else were early adopters of rifles? Native Americans, who quickly recognised their value for both hunting and warfare. An accurate weapon that could be loaded while crouched, or while mounted on horseback made for an idea hunting weapon.

I honestly couldn’t care less if you can make the weapon fit thematically or not. What role will the rifle play for the Ranger class seeing as we already have a long range, single target, power oriented weapon?

It may fit the theme of the class but it has no reason to exist in GW2.

There are plenty of options to make a rifle useful for a ranger that don’t overlap with the bow or other weapons. Abilities such as, stun, blinding or confusion. Possibly a smoke field. A high damage channeled rooted single shot. A quick shot with low damage that grants swiftness and/or refills endurance. A channeled shot that evades…

Wanderer.3248:

Rifle doesn’t fit with any of the old lore, because rifles weren’t around then.

Rangers (and woodsmen, skirmishers, scouts, frontiersmen, trackers, hunters etc etc, whatever you want to call them) would be the first to adopt rifles, because of their accuracy and their expense.

You know who else were early adopters of rifles? Native Americans, who quickly recognised their value for both hunting and warfare. An accurate weapon that could be loaded while crouched, or while mounted on horseback made for an idea hunting weapon.

And as Atherakhia pointed out, rangers have a longbow, which already fits the long range accurate role. Rifle just doesn’t work with the gw2 ranger.

Warriors can use both, and they work completely differently. There isn’t any reason a rangers rifle couldn’t have a unique set of abilities.

We already have two short range weapons (shortbow and axe) that work quite differently.

True, but I would imagine the rifle would be power based. Warrior’s rifle is power based, but their longbow isn’t. Unless the rifle was more condition based, I don’t see how it could differ from our current longbow.

Wanderer.3248:

Call them Druids then. Or hunters, which they basically are.

And I don’t see Aragorn summoning spirits or using a pet either, so your example is totally invalid.

Each fantasy world has its own lore. In Middle earth 3rd age, rangers were dunedain protectors that were wandering the wild looking to protect those in need. He did not have a rifle either… Not sure what this has to do with GW2

Not sure why people need to compare real world facts with fantasy facts.

Engineers are not spending their time building golems in real life also, and thieves can’t hide in plain sight…

Wanderer.3248:

Warriors can use both, and they work completely differently. There isn’t any reason a rangers rifle couldn’t have a unique set of abilities.

We already have two short range weapons (shortbow and axe) that work quite differently.

Yeah so why waste class potentials on making a third one. (Which would also be against the lore since rifle has nothing to do with nature)

The most fitting weapon for rangers if Anet ever introduces new weapons to classes, is a staff. It could work as a support weapon using spirits powers/nature magic.

Wanderer.3248:

Rangers … would be the first to adopt rifles, because of their accuracy

This is extremely far from true with early designs, however. Only until more modern manufacturing practices with precision boring and ammunition could the rifle be argued as more accurate than traditional ranged weapons such as the longbow and crossbow.

The crossbow is actually a far-superior weapon in regards to is merits for hunting and accuracy. This has even managed to hold true in our modern age. In many areas, the effectiveness of the weapon is in fact so potent for hunting that the weapon itself is illegal to own. Had the technology not been marginalized with the dawn of firearms and had it the time to garner more use in warfare, I would almost guarantee that many early firearm adopters would have not chosen said weapon over a more-developed crossbow.

That said, I still support rangers with staves as melee/nature support weapons. Thieves, warriors, and mesmers could make great use out of a crossbow, however.

Almost everyone got this whole thread wrong. It’s not about “ranger means this”, it’s about “a reason for why rangers can use rifles”.

Yes, we already got single-target high damage ranged weapon(s) but we lack AoE.
The rifle, already in the game, could be made into an AoE power based weapon for the ranger.

Also, quit arguing that Aragorn is what the ranger is, Aragorn is not real. The game is not real. I also like how someone kept pointing out “American Soldier”; I mean, come on, that is just so unnecessary.

I don’t think many would remember what they wrote in these kind of threads and say “Please no” when Anet announces that Ranger is getting the rifle.

I agree with most of the above posters… I don’t see an merit if your argument for a Rifle based on any pre-difined notion on what a Ranger should or should be lore wise. God forbid ANet are just making their own definition in their own game.

Regardless of that, however, Rangers currents have 3 Ranged options but only 2 melee ones. I’d much rather see a new melee option such as a hammer, OH-Sword, MH-Dagger or melee staff.

I agree with most responses in the thread, though looking at it objectively: what fits in with the lore of the Guild Wars 2 Ranger?

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

The rifle, as a product of ‘modern’ industry, does not fit with this description. GW2 Rangers source their weaponry and abilities from nature. Though you might argue that swords are a product of industry, they have been around for thousands of years.

OP, your reasoning may very well be sound and to me it makes sense. But not for this game.

Drizzt Do’Urden is by far the most popular Ranger in fiction and he uses dual swords and a summoned pet. Just sayin.

btw, I see a lot of people want the Ranger to have a rifle… why? We have 3 ranged weapons… what would make the rifle different?

I remember that staff craze people went though a year or so ago. err’body wanted dem staff rangers.

thematically i sm not against rifle for ranger, but another 1200 range single target weapon is the last thing ranger NEEDS.

for rifle to exist on ranger, it would essintially have to suck from a distance. It certainly could not be a strong cc weapon, with knockbacks, immobilize, stuns, etc., otherwise could u imagine wolf rifle/longbow ranger? I can here the QQ already. for the same reason, it also could not be a strong single target power weapon either, otherwise that would be too much Burst damage from such range.

so in my mind, it would have to be a 1200 range condi weapon that gets better the closer the enemy gets.

i believe what the ranger actually needs, is a 600 range staff that is team support oriented, Thematically designed to correlate with a rangers spititual attunement to nature. Think varient of the Guardian staff – boons, heals, aoe auto attack, soft cc, maybe even a pet revive. This will make them more team friendly

For me the ranger is the one who would describe his combat style as “dancing”.

Rifles when first invented were clunky weapons, inaccurate and hard to reload. Ofcourse, for the sake of the game, rifles do perform better but they still don’t fit the ranger.

But if we keep the “dancing” combat style in mind, I think a 2h staff as non-magical weapon would fit best.

J Eberle.9312:

I remember that staff craze people went though a year or so ago. err’body wanted dem staff rangers.

Most rangers still think staff should be our next weapon, including me

I’d prefer staff, ala druid. Rifles are just so crass and tech-ey. They dont go with fantasy ranger theme at all imo, being the nature spirit lovers and all.

I’d say Ranger needs an AoE heavy weapon. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe Rifle could be our healing weapon?

To be honest, I’d welcome any new weapon.

A staff would be cool, just for the naturalistic and druid like feel to the ranger. Maybe with a staff a Ranger could actually have a decent utility/supporting role in GvG raids.

A main hand dagger would be awesome too.

If they were to give us MH dagger, I would prefer they swapped all of the axe skills to it and made dagger ranged and changed axe into the melee weapon.

Rym.1469:

To be honest, I’d welcome any new weapon.

Pretty much how everyone feels about every class. It’d freshen the gameplay immensely.

Seems like most of the responses here want to play Druids and other tree hugging archetypes.

A Ranger has never been a Druid. Not in LoTR, not in any other RPG, paper based or MMO. Sure, a Ranger might be familiar with nature; they have to be able to survive in the wilderness, to be able to track, to trap and to kill their prey. They have to know nature so they can eat it.

Native Americans, arguably as in touch with nature and the spirit world as any culture, were happy to adopt rifles. They’d carve totems into the stock, and shaman would apply medicine.

Staffs? Seriously?? Rangers have never used staffs in any fiction I’ve seen. Next you’ll have them cutting mistletoe with sickles and dancing around naked at the summer solstice.

And for the poster who mentioned crossbows, while they are certainly more suitable for hunting and skirmishing than the longbow, medieval crossbows were not quick or easy to reload (they have a fire rate even lower than a longbow).

The idea that they are more accurate than even early rifles is incorrect. Even modern crossbows have an effective range of well under 100 yards, while even early rifles could kill targets at three times that range.

The range of an early rifle is similar to the maximum range of a longbow, but at that range a longbow is effectively a ballistic weapon, and best used en mass, much like a musket.

@Wanderer

So your reasoning that Rangers should not have access to the staff is essentially that the GW2 Ranger should follow the archetype set by every other RPG fiction?

Well I’m sorry but you’re wrong. You’re basing that on the false precedent that this game is under an obligation to conform to what has always been done, by the book, for every profession.

If players want a Druidic or Shaman-type role in the game, then the Ranger is the closest profession to fulfilling that role given their affinity with nature and access to magical abilities (I.e summoning spirits).

I just want a staff because the class has such poor group value that a staff could easily be introduced to give the class some much needed group utility while not departing too wildly from the established themes for the class.

We do have a nature magic line afterall.

Based on my time playing the Ranger I’d be very surprised if the devs had anything in mind that was too far off from the classic D&D Ranger archetype. Fighter type yet preferring lighter armor, proficient in ranged and melee combat(but generally not both at once), fighting alongside an animal companion, high evasion, some stealth capabilities, nature magic, the list goes on…

Oh and Rifles are loud. Very non-(fantasy RPG)Ranger if you ask me. Also, as many have pointed out, we already have a single target power based long range weapon in the LB.

Sagramor.7395:

Based on my time playing the Ranger I’d be very surprised if the devs had anything in mind that was too far off from the classic D&D Ranger archetype. Fighter type yet preferring lighter armor, proficient in ranged and melee combat(but generally not both at once), fighting alongside an animal companion, high evasion, some stealth capabilities, nature magic, the list goes on…

Oh and Rifles are loud. Very non-(fantasy RPG)Ranger if you ask me. Also, as many have pointed out, we already have a single target power based long range weapon in the LB.

They’re extremely close to D&D. Look at the skill and ability names on so many classes.

PBS, AoO, LR, the list goes on with abilities word for word.

The only way I can see rangers getting the “rifle” is if they made it behave like a shotgun.

IE short range, lots of AOE & a mixture of power & condition abilities.

^Isn’t that what Engineer Rifle is?

Wanderer.3248:

Seems like most of the responses here want to play Druids and other tree hugging archetypes.

A Ranger has never been a Druid. Not in LoTR, not in any other RPG, paper based or MMO. Sure, a Ranger might be familiar with nature; they have to be able to survive in the wilderness, to be able to track, to trap and to kill their prey. They have to know nature so they can eat it.

The mother of all rpgs, d&d, had rangers as mini-druids all along, they got the druid spell progression. Hence, the easy cross over to a more druid like ranger if a player wanted. There is a lot of cross overs in GW2, with classes potentially playing many roles.

More examples: Rangers have a pet, hence they dont just eat their piggies, they are best buds with them too. Many spells are druidic, ie spirit, nature and plant based (spirits, entanglement, etc). The connections are so obvious you have to be deliberately ignoring them really.

I don’t want the Ranger to be anything in particular. I don’t see what’s wrong with letting ANet take the theme in their on direction. Not every game has to be a carbon copy of all previous architypes, and infact one of the main points this game was sold on what trying to break from a lot of the typical MMO stereotypes.

With that in mind, I can’t understand people who come here expecting the game to be designed around their definitions.

Cufufalating.8479:

I don’t want the Ranger to be anything in particular. I don’t see what’s wrong with letting ANet take the theme in their on direction. Not every game has to be a carbon copy of all previous architypes, and infact one of the main points this game was sold on what trying to break from a lot of the typical MMO stereotypes.

With that in mind, I can’t understand people who come here expecting the game to be designed around their definitions.

Right on the sweetspot

oxtred.7658:

warriorjrd.8695:

I suppose these American soldiers of yours also summoned spirits and tamed pets?

I laughed out loud at this, thank you.

Seconded.

Ranger has always been based on several different Archetypes rolled into one. They have a little bit of Archer, little bit of Hunter, little bit of Druid, little bit of Beastmaster, etc.. This doesn’t mean that Ranger has to be more for one than the other.

With how this game works (and how any class can fill any role), there should be nothing wrong with a Ranger holding a Rifle, standing right next to a Ranger holding a Staff.

The only problem I see with rifles is that it would be too much like our bows. It would either be condition based like the shortbow, or it would be damage based like the longbow. Sure, Warriors have rifles and longbows, but there’s probably a good reason why they also aren’t running around with shortbows and pistols. If Anet introduces rifles for Rangers, then I hope to hell that its unique enough to have been worth the effort.

Logic =/= fantasy mmorpg.

Good luck spreading the word to the hundreds of mmo’s who use rangers with bows and not rifles.

NinjaEd.3946:

Logic =/= fantasy mmorpg.

Good luck spreading the word to the hundreds of mmo’s who use rangers with bows and not rifles.

But…GW2 is not those hundreds of other MMOs.

Wrong type of Ranger, US military Rangers are named after traditional Rangers but aren’t the type of Ranger RPG classes are representing, traditionally Rangers (circa 1400’s) were an armed militia that “range” over a larger region enforcing the law, they wore light armour and were traditionally a mix of woodsman and archer, this is the type of Ranger RPG’s reference.

actually, screw rifle, I want pistol, for a more authentic Ranger:

1. Karate chop
2. Judo Flip
3. Sweep the Leg
4. Wrastle
5. Beard Punch

http://img.sharetv.com/shows/standard/walker_texas_ranger.jpg

Rangers have been around much longer than rifles.

Chrispy.5641:

NinjaEd.3946:

Logic =/= fantasy mmorpg.

Good luck spreading the word to the hundreds of mmo’s who use rangers with bows and not rifles.

But…GW2 is not those hundreds of other MMOs.

That is the problem with trying to induce this ridiculous theory that some yahoo pulled in order to get rifles on a class that has been made and remade 100’s of times.

Soon it’s going to be thieves with staves and pistol necro’s because wiki said so O.o

do not defile the ranger class with your barbaric weapon. disgusting!