Guild Wars 2

Am I missing out on the joke where people make arguments about strafing when the arrows are obstructed by nothing?

I was about to rage comment when I saw the thread on reddit. I could have said “WTH are you saying rangers are OP”. I already stopped playing my ranger because it sucks #^%$!

Then I was redirected to this forum and saw the video. I was laughing hard thinking “Yeah that’s the reality.”

Balkep.9756:

I bet now we’ll get another underwater damage buff.

LOL!! brilliant!

I call this the elder scrolls NPC archer psychosis, or esnap for short.

It’s a serious mental problem that appears in games like the elder scrolls where the enemy is sometimes equipped with a slow moving projectile. In what the developers thought was clever programming, the NPC will use a mathmatical formula to aim where you will be by the time the arrow travels the right distance.

So basically we’re that bandit archer in skyrim that spawns next to a random animal but they don’t attack eachother.

Also to everyone saying that no one will actually dance around like this, this is just an exaggeration of a major problem rangers have. Even if the obstructed bug only decreases DPS by 5%, it’s still way too much. We shouldn’t have this problem at all.

lol. Holy cow. Thanks for those videos.

This needs to be stickied. Like. Now.

If it doesn’t. I’ll shoot myself. But that won’t work because it will just get Obstructed.

lol sadly i think they know about this already, it just isnt top priority for being fixed because none of this issues are game breaking for some reason…

Thx for those Vids! :-) its very funny but also frustrating, because its real…….

I suddenly feel better about re-rolling my Ranger. At least you still have WvWvW.

I just started a Ranger but after seeing these clips who ever designed ranger at Anet needs to be fired! Sorry to say but its UNACCEPTABLE by any standard even for a Korean MMO company to allow this crap to go to beta let alone live!

Broken design is broken.

Its so sad. I wish they would at least inform us on how they are planning on fixing any of the issues the ranger class has.

Best ranger post ever… in a very sad way !

This post needs to be stickied. Kudos to the OP for making a very clear presentation of two glaring ranger issues.

I also find it nearly unbelievable that some people tried to white knight this away:

1) Actually this is quite representative of spvp, (while taking out the “noise” of other players). It shows two common scenarios a ranger finds themselves in- fighting/kiting on a point and sniper from highground. People move back and forth like that while fighting all the time. I’ve had a guardian do nearly exactly the same thing to me on a point. Also, you can actually move directionally while strafing quickly back and forth so its not like you have to be locked in one place.

2) Crying is one thing, but giving clear cut evidence, and just laying it out there as the OP did with no whining is exactly the kind of unequivocal proof that should be supported by the community.

So white knighters, if you have to post, can you not just say something like “Yes this is clearly an issue, thanks for laying it out so clearly. I am sure the devs will address it and giving great feedback like this will help clarify and pin down specific issues.”

Also wouldn’t be great if a dev actually looked at this and said, “wow, yes that’s an issue we will definitely look at”. I mean, the recent dev comment on Rangers did not touch on these two issues, so its possible that they aren’t even aware of it.

bows broken, pets broken. sounds about right!

I’m going to assume that the thread title was using an unconventional form of the abbreviation OP. In this case:

OP = Obviously Problematic.

Hahaha…and the Devs say Rangers are in a good place, clearly shows now doesn’t it? lol

Hi everyone,

We are reopening this thread because it was mistakenly closed. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks for your understanding

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

We are reopening this thread because it was mistakenly closed. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks for your understanding

Oh good! I think the videos are a little out of touch with reality, but I hate to see things like this get censored for what I would consider no good reason.

I’m happy to see this thread reopen. It’s true that, as Rummy just said along with others, the conditions/situation is not ‘real WvW/PvP reality’ it still exposes a fault in the system. The best part is the video’s show both, archery and pets with their fault. Personally I believe the problem with pets is much worse then that of archery since the pets are responsible for 40% of our damage. Hopefully we can get some news from a dev, as to if they acknowledge this issue and if something is being done about it or if it’s something that they are not sure how to fix. If they don’t know how to get it fixed, perhaps they would care to listen to some of our suggestions as a workaround until they are able to get it fixed.

A response to this thread would be nice.

Also, nice demonstration OP.

Ok guys,lets keep calm.Im frustrated,im frustrated cause i pay some euros for a game that i really like overall and im not getting 100% of my investment.My gain is fun..
I think that the people who work in this game must realize that they must keep the fun levels high no matter what..Although is more complex that it sounds you must take some risks in that directions.What im trying to say is that the Rangers in the current state can take much buffing without breaking the balance..
I mean devs must head to this directions and even risking to have something OP in Rangers..They must take huge steps cause right now almost every class has something really good EXCEPT RANGERS.
Lets see what LoL does..every so a new champion comes out and ofc almost every time its OP,eventually they are nerfing it and goes to a normal level..But still is a very succesfull game.
You must start from the top to bring down to normal something in games,you cant start from the bottom cause the fun goes away with the people

An official statement if “out of range” and “obstructed” is something we just have to deal with or if you (Areanet) are indeed aware of the problem?
Rumors say that a patch is 8 days away, and I fear if these issues are left ignored without well..
a) (what we rangers hope) – a fix
or more realisticly;
b) a statment saying something like “ok, ok, we are investigating this, calm down, as soon as we know more we’ll let you know”.
Because the silence is honestly to [insert divinity of your choosing] making people feel well… let’s face it.. betrayed by (name witheld but everyone knows who).

Now I know a mere mortal cannot “demand an answer”, I’m just saying… the ranger bug list is 67, sixty seven (!) bullet points long, and that was updated a month ago, there are many new bugs that hasn’t been added to the list.

as far as i know, they cannot fix this issue yet, since if they “FIX” obstructed bug, a new bug will arise,

all arrows/projectiles will pass through any wall, like any other MMO’s

Fair point Oldgrimm, that leaves the new “out of range” bug spam introduced dec 3 & the lazy pet.
But on the other hand, the projectile path of the shortbow has been altered since the “animation fix”… instead of hitting people in the chest/head at max range you hit their legs/ancles. Revert changes and re-solve that animation glitch…

Akisame.9508:

I’m happy to see this thread reopen. It’s true that, as Rummy just said along with others, the conditions/situation is not ‘real WvW/PvP reality’ it still exposes a fault in the system.

Exactly.

Especially pets – sometimes it feels they land their attacks once in a lifetime. Mesmer clones/illusions, to some degree necro minions and even the thief elite “Thieves Guild” many times (most of the time) pose a much bigger threat than our pets.

To be fair, the pets should cause so much concern to the opponent, that they simply can’t ignore them, they should have to deal with them or suffer the consequences. Ignoring them should be rather painful.

As for the issue with arrows – just take a look at video 2 again folks. That video truly speaks for itself about how incredibly flawed the current system really is. Even if normal gameplay very rarely is this extreme, it happens far too many times during the course of a spvp game to not be a serious issue, and it’s hurting the class with most flaws the most.

Noone comment the close-open thread,fear of infraction..I would say it as i always say things.Straight and clear.If creating Ranger was MY work and someone showed me this videos :
1.I would be fired
2.I would be ashamed,and acknoledge that i didnt work hard enough
3.I would ask sorry from someone

Dardamaniac.1295:

Noone comment the close-open thread,fear of infraction..I would say it as i always say things.Straight and clear.If creating Ranger was MY work and someone showed me this videos :
1.I would be fired
2.I would be ashamed,and acknoledge that i didnt work hard enough
3.I would ask sorry from someone

Pet AI is fine’ish, the only issue short of their inability to fallow up/down terrain is that you can’t control their other abilities (so they tend to be utterly random).
The pathing just means you have to either run a bird or work with your pet if you want to actually do anything worthwhile with it.
That’s not a bad concept.

The projectile pathing, at least for shortbow I don’t hate it, it is a closer range weapon after all, but longbow is utterly crippled because of it.
That is a problem.

garethh.3518:

Pet AI is fine’ish, the only issue short of their inability to fallow up/down terrain is that you can’t control their other abilities (so they tend to be utterly random).
The pathing just means you have to either run a bird or work with your pet if you want to actually do anything worthwhile with it.
That’s not a bad concept.

This is a joke right? Please tell me your joking with this…so I know how to respond to it. Because first you said fine, then you changed it to fine’ish

garethh.3518:

Pet AI is fine’ish, the only issue short of their inability to fallow up/down terrain is that you can’t control their other abilities (so they tend to be utterly random).
The pathing just means you have to either run a bird or work with your pet if you want to actually do anything worthwhile with it.
That’s not a bad concept.

Working with your pet means you physically jumping off that ledge, get up to the enemy and switching pet though. Which makes it completely useless for bow users.

I don’t know why is it so hard to make a pet being able to jump up or down ledges to take the most direct route.

I am glad to see this thread re-opened, I was very disappointed and discouraged to see it closed when it’s one of the few threads in the Ranger forum actually demonstrating flaws instead of just ranting about them.

Video II is the clincher for me – the opposing player can auto-attack and hit the player even when his projectile is clearly seen to physically miss the player!

Now, what about solutions?

Simply changing the messages from “Obstructed” and “Out of range” to “Miss” (when it is indeed a miss) would be a nice start. At least then we’d be sure of what was happening, instead of being obstructed by nothingness. I’m sure it’s not as simple as all that, but accurate feedback is a must.

For pets, there is no issue if you have your target snared (crippled, frozen, etc.), which a Ranger should reasonable be able to do. You can’t just buff the pets, because then with snares you’d just destroy someone. Thoughts? Is it just a matter of fixing AI pathfinding?

Has anyone else experienced difficulty activating your pet’s skill? Sometimes when I hit my hotkey nothing happens (skill is not on CD) but a few moments later the pet uses it. Is this perhaps because the pet is using one of its other skills? If so, activating its special skill should cancel out the use of another!

Happy hunting

If only my wolf listened to me, i think i could have avoided at least a hundred deaths.
Countless times have i pressed f2 only to see my wolf prioritize walking, or using a leap when there are several targets finishing you

AlexRD.7914:

If only my wolf listened to me, i think i could have avoided at least a hundred deaths.
Countless times have i pressed f2 only to see my wolf prioritize walking, or using a leap when there are several targets finishing you

Why do pets stop walking to use their skills anyway?

Letifer.4360:

Why do pets stop walking to use their skills anyway?

Sure does make PvE a breeze right?

Why are bow attacks seemingly using completely different code than other ranged attacks? The elementalist wasn’t getting obstructeds using his 1200 range lightning non instant projectile attack.

I watch these vids just to cheer me up, I have an 80 Ranger too..so the “I’ve been there and seen that” is just irony at its best

Check here for another bug…

Every day i feel more and more sad..Its to late for me,i fell in love with my Ranger,save yourselves people

Volume IV is out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFnXVxvAet4
Thanks for Aliatis for identifying this bug

As a joke the thread is ok, but in reality these videos are just that, jokes.

Pet doesn’t even get a chance to hit because the enemy is out of combat, in PvP your target won’t be out of combat and probably will get be crippled for a good while.

The dance to dodge arrows it’s known, but no one does that in PvP…you could send the pet and laugh at their dance.

I’m wondering how did you come up with that 1.200-900 range from the 4th video since that range you are assuming is completely wrong.
If i had to take a guess, the real 1.200 units is where your shortbow AUTOCAST ends and not where you are out of range. I didn’t check an answer for it since it didn’t really bother me, but seems a bit obvious.
To figure out real ranges use autocast, and you will find it’s working properly.

AlexRD.7914:

Volume IV is out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFnXVxvAet4
Thanks for Aliatis for identifying this bug

Thank you very much for posting these videos AlexRD. These are issues that can be hard to describe only with words on a forum.

I keep wondering about our “hunter’s call” skill – clearly it can’t be intended, that to make this skill work fully, you have to keep your target in sight during the entire duration of the effect? Bugged as he** if you ask me!

Sleepy.2647:

As a joke the thread is ok, but in reality these videos are just that, jokes.

Pet doesn’t even get a chance to hit because the enemy is out of combat, in PvP your target won’t be out of combat and probably will get be crippled for a good while.

The dance to dodge arrows it’s known, but no one does that in PvP…you could send the pet and laugh at their dance.

I’m wondering how did you come up with that 1.200-900 range from the 4th video since that range you are assuming is completely wrong.
If i had to take a guess, the real 1.200 units is where your shortbow AUTOCAST ends and not where you are out of range. I didn’t check an answer for it since it didn’t really bother me, but seems a bit obvious.

For starters, both the elementalist and the pet are out of combat, so the speed bonus applies to both, and to make the test fair i even asked the ele to switch out of air to not get a speed bonus. This bug happens even while both are in combat, but i don’t feel like posting another video just to prove that. ( And as you can see, the pet even gets the agility training, which gives him an edge in speed. What’s wrong there isn’t the speed, but the AI pathing)

Also, the auto attack stops working at maximum range, one of the bugs listed in ranger bug’s thread. Even if your theory was correct, my tests would still be valid, because the extra range from non-auto attacks you think exist would then apply to the off hand as well.

Now that you say it though, i’m not entirely sure. To me the only logical explanation to something being out of range is when the distance shot is higher than the weapon’s maximum distance.

To make up for the possible wrong calculation, i even stepped to the edge of the circle, which made the range applied there something like 1050 or 1100.

heh, and people wonder why I play Sword/Dagger and Axe/Torch

Nice Volume4!!

Dam we got toooo much over power.I like it lol~

AlexRD.7914:

( And as you can see, the pet even gets the agility training, which gives him an edge in speed. What’s wrong there isn’t the speed, but the AI pathing)

To make up for the possible wrong calculation, i even stepped to the edge of the circle, which made the range applied there something like 1050 or 1100.

The agility training is bugged according to people, which i can’t really tell, it doesn’t give 30%, and i know the AI pathing is bad, but in combat that won’t be the case. Not to mention that in PvP you won’t see someone running in circles, it’s a joke of example. Also pets in combat move much faster than players in combat.

The range issue is like i said, autocasts show the real range and if you use trait for 20% increased range you will notice you have sightly more range than shortbow autocast (above 1.200) and without trait you will have to take quite a few steps ahead for the skill to autocast again.

You can’t just assume 1.200 range is where you are out of range because that’s ridiculous….you just have to throw a trap, move to the center…throw another trap and there you go…1.200 units!". The range in your video was well above 1.500.

Your examples are not realistic at all as you can see. Pets do need better AI pathing, but even if they had better pathing the target in your video still wouldn’t get hit because pets out of combat run just like players but in combat with the trait they pretty much run twice as fast. Also players don’t have that much time to get away from an attack which is the main issue.
Arrows can be “dodged” but…you are stuck to “dance”…the ranger just has to get closer or send the pet. Shortbow could use some faster projectile speed tho.

I found the thread funny as an over exaggeration of the issues ranger might have, but as a serious thread it has zero credibility and ANet won’t take it serious.

So what you’re saying is that the range in the skill actually shows the autoattack range? How would that work for area of effect talents then?
It shows the maximum range. Don’t believe me? Check the wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Range
“Range defines the maximum distance within which a skill can be targeted.”

Dude, just watch the video and pay attention, i’m not throwing traps randomly at the ground nor have i said that agility training applied 30%, all i said was it improved, and it does, it’s not completely bugged, it only applies less than it advertises.

No valid argument saying that 600 range + 600 range from traps = 1.200?
What a coincidence that shortbow autoattack or torch “4” has the same autocast range (1.200) when traited. Or that barrage center of the skill it’s at the same exact point…again 1.200 range.

Anet must really have a good laugh at looking at these videos because people makes “tests” without any accurate data. “If it doesn’t work like i say then it must be a bug!” mentality.

AlexRD.7914:

It shows the maximum range. Don’t believe me? Check the wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Range
“Range defines the maximum distance within which a skill can be targeted.”

The target of the AoE like traps or barrage is the CENTER of the skill, not the furthest point…it says nothing like what you are arguing. The definition is based on single target spells anyway and not AoE radius spells.

Way to put together a video showing the bug’s involved with a few of the key components of this class. Pet AI and Arrow bug’s. The thread shouldn’t have been closed, no one was taking personal shots at a Dev, so I’m glad they re opened it.

The real trick… CAN the Dev’s fix the problems? I think the answer is no. These problems will saddle this class for a long time. Other MMO’s have tried and failed at pet AI, never have gotten it right. The obvious fix is give us an option to run without pets boosting arrow/sword/axe damage through a trait line.

The Arrow bug, sadly, the option is make the arrow hit what is shot at when it is aimed and this goes contrary to the game and its dodge abilities, etc… Speed up the arrow flight? or, remove the bug and make it hit the spot it is aimed at 100% of the time with no rock or or partial wall obstructions, which again messes with the game and its high walls in keeps or trees or old ruins or insects and little rocks for that matter.

I don’t see either being fixable. Would love for a Dev to come to this thread and tell us that either could be fixed or that they have a handle on the issue and see a light at the end of the tunnel. I’m not holding my breath.

NargofWoV.4267:

Way to put together a video showing the bug’s involved with a few of the key components of this class. Pet AI and Arrow bug’s. The thread shouldn’t have been closed, no one was taking personal shots at a Dev, so I’m glad they re opened it.

The real trick… CAN the Dev’s fix the problems? I think the answer is no. These problems will saddle this class for a long time. Other MMO’s have tried and failed at pet AI, never have gotten it right. The obvious fix is give us an option to run without pets boosting arrow/sword/axe damage through a trait line.

The Arrow bug, sadly, the option is make the arrow hit what is shot at when it is aimed and this goes contrary to the game and its dodge abilities, etc… Speed up the arrow flight? or, remove the bug and make it hit the spot it is aimed at 100% of the time with no rock or or partial wall obstructions, which again messes with the game and its high walls in keeps or trees or old ruins or insects and little rocks for that matter.

I don’t see either being fixable. Would love for a Dev to come to this thread and tell us that either could be fixed or that they have a handle on the issue and see a light at the end of the tunnel. I’m not holding my breath.

Actually the arrow thing is fixeable. Thief bow doesn’t have this problem because their arrows autocorrect their paths in flight. If an enemy makes a sudden turn when the arrow is flying towards them, the arrow changes directions.

Or you could speed up ranger arrows to gun bullet speeds. Bullets don’t have this problem.

Okay sleepy, you clearly didn’t understand how i made the tests. Like i said in the first comment, watch the video again and try to understand how i did it.
The trap simply marked the spot, it wasn’t used as a range measure.