Guild Wars 2

@Fate.8673

I agree 100%.
Thanks for this thread, so sick of all the doom and reroll threads..!

Cheers to Fate, thank you for your input. One more deep breath to continue enjoying my ranger, as in small new tips to try out on my ranger.

A while back i started a thread, more or less about this, i hope you don’t mind if i shamelessly post it for people in the RAnger spirit to check it out
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/The-Glass-Half-Full-shortbow

Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised to see more people in favor of the OP than not in this thread.

Finally a safe have for those of us who appreciate the Ranger and love our pets!

I personally never used short bow in the first place. I posted a build awhile back with Sword/Axe and Axe/Warhorn as my weapon sets, and I still love it. Whirling defense is such an amazing skill. Whirl finisher, VULNERABILITY, AND did I mention in reflects projectiles?

Don’t overlook this offhand it can be extremely useful in the right hands. Some people think Axe 4 is meh but it is our only TRUE projectile finisher (maybe dagger 5 is too, dunno) and can be thrown through fields for a double application of Burning, Chill, Regen, etc.

oh man that sounds like an awesome build …. if i was doing DEs in metrica province or some other lvl10 areas. bring that build to lvl 80 dungeons, and you might as well bring about 2 gold for gear repair.

@Fate.8673

Nice post I played trap build from the game start until now and don’t find much trouble in tPvP or WvW didn’t know why there’s so many weak players here complaining about how weak ranger is- – to my knowledge Ranger is strong if you know how to control and not panic when there’s a fight (1v1 1v2)

This post has been edited to remove a violation of the forum code of conduct.

I can’t say I agree that ranger is a highly mobile class, but I definitely agree that he’s got great control. Especially so with spiders.

Been rocking a trap ranger for a while, and loving it.

Good tip for aspiring rangers. The leap skill on swords can give self-heal in the water combo field of healing spring. With the cooldown of 8 seconds, you can use this twice with each spring, and make up for the lack of straight healing power on it.

gibby.9328:

oh man that sounds like an awesome build …. if i was doing DEs in metrica province or some other lvl10 areas. bring that build to lvl 80 dungeons, and you might as well bring about 2 gold for gear repair.

I really wish it listed the lvl of people’s characters under their account name sometimes…

Oh my god, Fate, I love you. So much. Please have my babies. I am male; if you are too we will work something out.

I’m really happy to see this topic made because it’s beautifully written and exactly how I’ve been feeling. I do amazing work with ranger. Is my damage spectacular? No, but good lord, why are we using that as our only meter stick? We’re -fantastic- at evasion and control and adaptability and stuff.

(I use this build. http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mVoVMm0zMomxMommxMo0xGfVoRqosm )

Yeah, the shortbow’s nerf isn’t okay, but rangers are awesome, kitten I for one on my ranger am a downright wonderful duelist.

While I can appreciate the concepts the Op is putting forth, there are some fundamental flaws with the reasoning being used.

First off though, I want to say… If you enjoy playing Ranger, it shouldn’t matter to you how many problems I or anyone else has with the Ranger profession… because you enjoy the Ranger. If you like it, no amount of the current issues bother you, and are completely satisfied with how it plays, then “whine” or “complaint” posts shouldn’t have any effect on you whatsoever… same reason, because you enjoy the Ranger. And that is fine, and all is well.

If however, you do have a problem with what other people are expressing. Well, that sucks for you really, because it means you are not comfortable with your own opinions to be truly satisfied liking something unless everyone else likes it too. I don’t have any good advice for you if this is the case, except to stop.

Now that I’ve got that covered. I wanted to go over what it is people have been complaining about, so that it is clear for those who think they understand, but don’t.

I’ll start with the Buzz topic of late; the stealth nerf, and the introduction of a new debilitating bug.

On 10/7 it was announced in the patch notes that a graphic glitch fix was implemented, and that 40 ms was added to Shortbow’s auto attack Crossfire. People logged in and immediately knew there was something wrong. Testing was done, topics on the subject multiplied, and the concensus was reached that 7.7% base dps was lost on the Shortbow, to fix a bug that no one had ever experienced, and the fix broke the interaction of shortbow’s attack with the Quickness buff. The net loss to some specs of 20+% dps.

The devs responded, saying they would look into the problem, and several days later gave their reply. And that reply turned the confusion and disappointment of the ranger community into anger. Because in that reply, the devs said that there was in fact a dps loss (and understated it), that it was fine, and that the ranger’s who use a shortbow are basically playing the game wrong (Though the change wouldn’t actually change the way it’s played). That the patch glitch fix was completely intentional, and they may eventually look into it someday in the distant future.

So, regardless of how appropriate any change they made might have been, the dev team was dishonest, and dictated to the player base what was, and was not fun. They implemented an ineffectual change, and nerfed the profession’s only decent damage weapon option.

That, just by itself, rubbed a LOT of people the wrong way. The way it was handled drove people from the profession more than the bugs with the profession ever could. It was a clear sign that no one on the dev team really even played a ranger, didn’t understand the ranger, and quite frankly didn’t care about the ranger. No one wants to play the class the devs decide they don’t like, it always ends really poorly. And to many, this was as clear as day. You play a ranger; you will get kitten on, so reroll before you are too invested.

And that by itself is bad enough to discourage people. But you add into the mix the issues that have been plaguing the ranger since betas, the early over nerfs of a few weapon sets, and the vastly superior performance of several other professions…and it is no surprise that people are complaining. They want to like the ranger…. I know I certainly do.

Everything the ranger can do, another profession does better. With very, very…very few exceptions. The Op talks about the mobility of the class, yet is blind to how much superior the Thief’s mobility is. I play both, I know very well what options they both have, and everything the ranger does mobility wise, the thief simply does it better, for longer, more often, or faster… plus stealth.

If you want to get into control, as the Op suggests Ranger is amazing at, take a gander at Mesmer, or Warrior, Engineer…or Thief again. They all can chain actual control conditions on targets… not just cripples. Some pets have mediocre control, but they all pale in comparison to the control arsinal in many of the other professions.

And bugs… oh man, if we want to go there… hundreds of them. But I won’t. Eventually, these might get fixed, if you are still optimistic…

But I will go into one of the more annoying aspects of Ranger… Synergy. It is kittened. I don’t mean to be crass, but it really is. Go 30 points into traits for crits so that your skills that do condition damage work better??? Who smoked crack the day they decided that one? Have you seen how well other professions traits are set up synergistically??

Then there is the issue with scaling. Ok, just a pet peeve here… but I have to toss it out there because its a big one for me. But 3 second bleeds suck for scaling. Thieves have 4 seconds which are miles better, and warriors have 6 second bleeds which is just amazing. (Auto-attack bleeds) You need a full +35% condition duration to get another tick out of your bleeds with a 3 second base bleed. They are not rounded, the extra doesn’t do jack diddly unless you get a full extra second on each bleed. So a ranger need to get 35% to get another tick of bleed damage, which isn’t possible without runes and/or sigils. To do it, you have to gear for it. Thieves need 25% to get an extra tick of damage per bleed. And warriors only need 20%.

You want to hear a funny story about synergy? Warrior. The trait line that adds condition damage, also adds precision. One of the minor traits causes crits to inflict bleed. Another caused 10% increased damage to targets that are bleeding. They have a Major trait that increases Bleed duration by 50%. That isn’t a typo… 50%. Warriors can have +80% bleed duration form traits alone. That turns their 6 second auto-attack bleed into a 10 second bleed.

That on crit bleed of theirs I mentioned, the minor trait one? Guess the duration? 2 seconds. How long is the Major trait ranger version? 1 second.

Warriors don’t often spec for condition builds though, so maybe you aren’t familiar with their plethora of options in that regard…. but it isn’t that they’re not phenomenal at condition builds that stops them, it is that they are kitten good at burst damage that you don’t see it often. Have you played a warrior? Have you bull rushed, quickness’d 100 blades a fool for 20+k? I have… insta-gib. It is kitten how hard it hits. If they don’t stun break and dodge immediately, they’re dead. It isn’t even a hard combo to do…. the Thief’s backstab, that can do around the same damage amount, at least takes a bit of finesse to pull off…

So, in summation… Ranger is perfectly fine, if you think it is perfectly fine. But if take a moment to look at what other people are capable of doing, you may very well come to realize you got the short end. But, if you like it, and it makes you feel special, enjoy it all you like. But it still doesn’t mean you’re not holding a really really tiny stick, no matter how shiny you think it is.

@Ravnodaus.5130
“First off though, I want to say… If you enjoy playing Ranger, it shouldn’t matter to you how many problems I or anyone else has with the Ranger profession… because you enjoy the Ranger. If you like it, no amount of the current issues bother you, and are completely satisfied with how it plays, then “whine” or “complaint” posts shouldn’t have any effect on you whatsoever… same reason, because you enjoy the Ranger. And that is fine, and all is well.”

You can like a class and still be bothered by some of the issues you know..
And all the complaining does bother me, if it where limited to a few threads that would be fine but almost every single one of them is filled with whine and that ruins the purpose of the class forums. I come to these boards looking for advice, different builds and what not but all I read is that the ranger is broken and that I shouldn’t bother playing it and roll X class instead.

Nuwen.7615:

Don’t overlook this offhand it can be extremely useful in the right hands. Some people think Axe 4 is meh but it is our only TRUE projectile finisher (maybe dagger 5 is too, dunno) and can be thrown through fields for a double application of Burning, Chill, Regen, etc.

It is far from the only projectile finisher. I will list them for you.

Greatword
Crippling Throw (100%)

Long Bow
Long Range Shot (20%)
Rapid Fire (20%x10)
Hunter’s Shot (100%)
Point Blank Shot (100%)

Short Bow
Crossfire (20%)
Quick Shot (100%)
Crippling Shot (100%)
Concussion Shot (100%)

Axe
Ricochet (20%)
Splitblade (20%x5)
Path of Scars (100%) The one you suggest is our only “TRUE” finisher.

Dagger
Crippling Talon (100%)

We also can

Spiders
Spit (20%)
Entagling Web (100%)

Carrion Devourers
Twin Darts (20%x2)
Whiptail’s F2 Poinonous Barbs (20%)

I’m not going into aquatic, because… well, aquatic combat is lame.

Thank god, a ranger thread thats positive! <3
I hate seeing all the post about them being " under powered " " not viable " i dont understand?

Last night in sPvP i took on a ranger, thief and warrior at the same time, killed all 3 of them, and kept the point, i think its down to who your against, how good you are and the situation, like the OP said we’re extremely mobile, we dont need the killing power of a warriors rifle, or a thiefs burst spec, we do an ideal amount of damage whilst keeping at range, taking no damage and ultimately winning the fight.

Laef.4519:

I come to these boards looking for advice, different builds and what not but all I read is that the ranger is broken and that I shouldn’t bother playing it and roll X class instead.

That is the advice you are finding, and there is a reason for that. It is good advice.

But people don’t like good advice, they want advice that agrees with them. You don’t want to hear that ranger has more problems than it’s worth, you don’t want to hear other professions have it better. But it doesn’t stop it from being true.

The honest answer to “what is a good build”? Is reroll warrior or thief, and then put points aimlessly into your traits, and you’ll have a good build.

But you want a good build on Ranger, eh? Well here is good news! There is one good build on ranger… it is mostly good, any way. Well, more good than bad, at least. It is the famed trap spec. Nearly every ranger has it, or some not very different version of it. It is a pretty straightfoward build too, you spec for your traps. Put some trap skills on your bar, and equip some gear that does good condition damage, and a pair of weapons that do conditions… and you’re set.

Ravnodaus.5130:

That is the advice you are finding, and there is a reason for that. It is good advice.

But people don’t like good advice, they want advice that agrees with them. You don’t want to hear that ranger has more problems than it’s worth, you don’t want to hear other professions have it better. But it doesn’t stop it from being true.

The honest answer to “what is a good build”? Is reroll warrior or thief, and then put points aimlessly into your traits, and you’ll have a good build.

You are just too much with your generalizations and assumtions..
Bye

I love how many Rangers seem to assume that Rangers should be Archers.
If they were intended to be, I’d wager they’d be called “Archer”. Incidentally, Warriors are much closer to an actual Archer / Line Infantry class, which I thought was pretty obvious from even but a cursory glance at the wiki. And I stick with my general opinion that people who do not research the games they bug beforehand got exactly zero right to complain about pretty much anything, later.

Anyhow, the big issue is probably the pet bugs. Just as with other classes using pets, Rangers are currently hamstrung by a slew of pathing / lag / obstruction bugs in relation to pets. This is the same for Elementalists, Mesmers, Necros, even all Humans.
Sure, in the case of the Ranger it has a larger impact – due to the permanence of the pet – but the fix will probably be code changes affecting all pets, anyhow. Hence it’s probably not a specific issue.

Well power is a fickle thing. Look at Shamans in modern WoW, in MoP so far one spec is nearly at the pinnacle of potential damage, and it’s outscaling the others.

But, just one expansion past, both Shaman DPS specs were near the bottom of damage.

Further in the past, Shamans did really low DPS, but doing raids without at least 1 – better 2 – Shamans was nearly impossible as your raid as a whole would be doing a fraction of their damage.

Further in the past, Shamans needed to be stacked (we personally used 8 in a 25man raid), the more the merrier, as the strongest buff in the game could be chained between multiple Shamans.

What I’m trying to say is:
If you reroll to classes you normally wouldn’t play, based on current balance, you deserve to be annoyed later when balance changes.

Carighan.6758:

I love how many Rangers seem to assume that Rangers should be Archers.
If they were intended to be, I’d wager they’d be called “Archer”. Incidentally, Warriors are much closer to an actual Archer / Line Infantry class, which I thought was pretty obvious from even but a cursory glance at the wiki. And I stick with my general opinion that people who do not research the games they bug beforehand got exactly zero right to complain about pretty much anything, later.

Anyhow, the big issue is probably the pet bugs. Just as with other classes using pets, Rangers are currently hamstrung by a slew of pathing / lag / obstruction bugs in relation to pets. This is the same for Elementalists, Mesmers, Necros, even all Humans.
Sure, in the case of the Ranger it has a larger impact – due to the permanence of the pet – but the fix will probably be code changes affecting all pets, anyhow. Hence it’s probably not a specific issue.

Quote from GW2 Main site, description of Ranger profession. Bold mine.

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

I don’t think it is unrealistic to expect the ranger to be playable as an archer. It is described as one, with the exact word “archer”… unparalled even…. I don’t think people are “assuming” they should be so, I think we have been told they are.

Weird title for one of the classes most lacking in mobility. Warriors, thieves, eles, mesmers are more mobile; even some guardian specs can be more mobile. I’m not sure about the other classes, but I’ve seen some pretty mobile engineers as well in spvp.

Alright, then I’d put part of the blame on the website. -.-

Because 10 minutes researching the game pre-buy already tells someone that Rangers are full-pet classes. Which makes sense, considering the baseline WoW set with it’s Hunters.

@ Fate. I respect your choice to “make the best of a bad deal.” I think it’s great. Good on you. But I can’t blithely go along with it. A bad deal is a bad deal, however you choose to look at it.

And as for nitpicking over semantics? Really? Is that what you think I was doing? Thanks, but I’ll leave the nitpicking to those that demonstrate a real flair for it. “Whom the cap fits…”

Anets’ own definition of the Ranger profession is the nearest thing that we, the playerbase have to a set of stated design goals from the devs. And I may well have quoted selectively, but it didn’t seem necessary to quote the whole paragraph.

Please choose to interpret my posts as you wish… Your interpretation of my meaning and/or intent, do not make it so, however…

@Carighan. If you had researched the Ranger profession in GW2, you would already know that Anet originally designed both the Archer and Beastmaster professions. And that the current GW2 Ranger profession is an amalgam of the two. Sadly the result is not particularly good at either!

FYI my opinion on what defines the Ranger here;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Range-Philosphy/429221

Can’t find information on previous iterations any where. Where is that from?

Just having checked the references again… the two class names were originally “marksman” and “warden”… my bad.

I seem to remember reading about this in a number of interviews, but a couple of quick refs for you should suffice;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Remake-Ranger/75768

&

http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/06/exclusive-interview-arenanets-jon-peters-and-jonathan-sharp/

&

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

Jon P Quote from one of those links.

“I think that’s why professions are important as it gives you an automatic identity at the beginning of what you’re doing, that this is my character, and for a role playing game that is also really important. Inevitably, there are people who love the ‘jack of all trades’ but it’s hard to build a system like that which doesn’t result in just a few setups.”

I’m pretty sure he forgot his own wisdom.

—
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
—

Zelvoka.5634:

@Fate.8673

Nice post I played trap build from the game start until now and don’t find much trouble in tPvP or WvW didn’t know why there’s so many weak players here complaining about how weak ranger is- – to my knowledge Ranger is strong IF YOU KNOW HOW TO CONTROL AND NOT PANIC WHEN THERE’S A FIGHT (1v1 1v2)

Its strong for ranger standards, what everyone is saying is that other classes do it better. Thieves are just our medium counterpart that we compare too, but engineers do it better too, rangers are inferior in every single way to every class out there. Try getting a good tpvp team as a ranger. Either way idc, we will get buffs eventually, and we will get fixes. Once the bugs are fixed then we might be much better.

Any1 else wish rangers got something like caltrops when we dodged? Like a trait that gives us spike trap when we dodge.

Thyya.1307:

—
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
—

And rangers aren’t usually standing during those times, but lying down, usually dead.

I really can not believe that a class with trait like “10% damage when endurance is full” is conceived to being more mobile than others…

@Ravendous
I was pretty pleased to find your posts are actually fairly respectfully reasoned. I think there’s some food stuff in there.
I disagree on a couple things enough that I want to bring it up; the bulk of it I didn’t have a problem with, but—
1. I’ve played both, and rangers feel a ton more flexible and diverse and responsive in their mobility. No one cranks out evasion states like a ranger. Thieves have stealth and swiftness and shadowstep, yes, but in a way that’s a very linear mobility. Using sword/dagger/shortbow my capacity for weaving feels tremendous. I can stay safe forever while still doing damage with cleverly woven together dodge strings.

2. You caught that OP agrees with you/us about the shortbow nerf being, in his words, unacceptable, right? He’s with us in that fight, he’s just talking about what we do have.

3. I think OP put his views forth very well (same as you did) and appreciated his attitude of not being all doom and gloom about rangers. Remember he agreed they still need work but him speaking up about them having tremendous value is a good thing. I’m concerned you felt like he was trying to shut complainers up. He wasn’t. He specifically alluded that stuff needs to change; he was mostly taking the time to celebrate what we do have because he felt it was fair and I agree with him. (And I also agree with both of you we need our bow back.)

4. Please never pull the “DEVS DISLIKE THIS CLASS” card. It is never true. It’s their game and their life’s work at the moment. They have no reason to pick a punching bagclass. They made a -mistake-.

Otherwise good posts!

Othayuni. Incorrect, thieves have alot more evasion than rangers. They can spam theirs too. A big problem with ranger is the fact that sword/shortbow are about the only viable weapons we have. People wanna play more than just those 2, I for 1 wanna play longbow, others want GS. We want to dps an not have to go tanky so we dont die in seconds.

I dont think devs dislike the class, thats a childs way of thinking. I think they are just trying to figure out a way to buff or fix us without making us op. 1 small mistake and we become the new fotm class, then you will see kitten like OMGAWD RAPIDFIRE DOES 15k IN 1 HIT AND ITS SO SKILLESS, ect…Hell idc if they buff longbow or keep its damage the same, Id love a range increase on it so its not the same range as lolshortbow, maybe make rapid fire compact its damage into 2 arrows so its 2 back too back arrows that hit for like 4-5k each, and maybe increase arrow flight speed, I think longbow ( Im very biased towards this weapon ) needs other ways to do damage other than rapid fire, I dont count barrage since its not as damaging as people think.

Yeah, not to sure about ranger being the most mobile class in general, but we defintiely have the best in-combat movment.

If a thief stealths, they stop doing damage (albeit to set up for a burst yes). A ranger’s evasion steps into an attack, and flows through with the other abilities. A thief is fight, stop, fight, stop. A ranger fights in a more continuous way, and I agree that an on-dodge trait would be a great complement to this.

One thing I don’t see discussed much is that the ranger (looking at the trait lines and the way the stats are arranged) seems to excel at being a generalist. I can completely ignore crit with no wasted stats since crit chance and damage are the same trait line. I can bump up toughness and condition damage at the same time.

In general though, the weapons and utilities we have don’t lend themselves well to an amazing burst build, or the great-guardian bunker. QZ’s cd is too long to rely on for bursting down multiple opponents. However, I in the abilities that are there (ignoring the bugged ones, or assuming they will be fixed), we have great potential to have damage, mobility and survivability. Not top tier of any one of them, but a good portion of all three at the same time. That is quite powerful, though subtle, and relies on adjusting tactics on the fly.

Teviko’s glass-cannon build has some high hitting power, yet still manages 24K health. A bit low on toughness for my preferences, but it works.

Eeem…. Stealth is not quite correct to call thief’s mobility. Stealts used to deal more damage with next autoattack. Look at the thief with a short bow. He had so much avoidance that last for three rangers, and twice(or even triple) ranger’s damage and mobility.
And only 3 classes have crit damage not in the same trait line (necro, guard and warr).

I agree with OP on pretty much every point he made; for emphasis, things on the fix list seem to be undoing the shortbow changes, taking some channeling time away from pet attacks, and increasing the health of spirits. (I bet Anet is terrified of spirits on general principle from GW1— because some could slam the whole battlefield cheaply with overwhelming mechanics— one dev was quoted saying, “the problem is that if we buff spirits, people will use them!”) But GW2 spirits should not be eliciting those fears. They could be good without being a black ship.

I also agree that rangers simply should not be able to compete with hundred blades, at least not at range. They should at least be able to lay down as much as a rifleman, though… again, undo the shortbow nerf.

Rangers have great kiting but lackluster swiftness; something nice on 789 would probably give the class more appeal without it being a major balance issue.

Yeah, didn’t mean stealth to be the thief’s mobility, but that was poorly worded. I just meant to highlight the fact that thieves are inherently bursty (sustain builds exist but are kind of boring) while Ranger abilities lean more towards a sustain or consistent damage build imho. Burst is not always the king of everything in the big picture – although it is definitely devestating in the moment.

And as many have said already, the bugs need to be corrected, all the skills need to be at least viable.

Again, look at the thief with pistols or short bow. Exeeds any of available ranger’s builds in all parameters, well, except that the maximum distance. Should I mention the melee?

Glad for some ranger love in this forum.

@Ravn: A lot of your posts look and sound nice, but there is a lot of flawed reasoning and false deductions there.

Let’s start with me, because apparently you’ve psychoanalyzed me and deduced that “I’m not happy unless everyone shares my opinion.” Aka the reason I made this thread.

This couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve been having a great time on my ranger, and I’ve avoided posting/reading this forum since the SB nerf (and even then, before that it was pretty bad) because of all the negativity and lack of constructive thought. You won’t find me in a single qq thread saying “u suck l2p” “stop whining.”

No, I made this thread to be, as Nuwen nicely put it, a “safe haven” for people that like this class and are willing to tough it out through the bugs. I made this thread to explain to people what I believe is the strength of the Ranger class, and that if they want something else there are OTHER classes for it.

Like the Warrior that you mention. Do they have better Burst than us if pulled off? Yes. Are their SINGLE target bleeds more effective than ours/scale better? Yes.

I could go to every other profession forum and go “So what are u guiz better than Rangurs @?” And come back here and say LOOK, LOOK AT HOW GOOD EVERY OTHER CLASS IS AT X, Y, Z. What’s your point? This thread is to discuss what RANGERS are the BEST at. So far I haven’t seen a single argument to persuade me otherwise.

Warriors are simple. Do you notice anyone whining about Necros anymore? People started figuring them out and they are very effective now. Did you know back in the first Beta events people thought MESMERS were lackluster and did horrible damage? Sound familiar?

I’m almost proud of the whiners that hate on our class. It just shows me how indepth and skill-based our class really is and will take to reach our max potential. Can you look at me with a straight face and say 4+ Free dodges+Endurance regen+AoE immobilize and Chill does NOT have potential as class compared to others?

Dodges are 100% ONE HUNDRED PERCENT mitigation. We have the most built in ones in the game.

As someone else mentioned, quite beautifully, Thieves have linear mobility. They are in or out. They are In your face with shadow step, or 50 yards away. But they are not IN the fight while they are mobile. Rangers are. Rangers’ pets are. We are doing DAMAGE while you are not. I can live with doing 15% (made-up #) less damage than another class while standing steal if I can do 100% more than they are while I’m using my free dodges. Are we weak to condition stacking? Moreso than other classes yes, but Empathatic Bond+SoR+Healing Spring+Spirit of Nature is pretty kitten good, and I’m seeing 30 in WS as becoming more in more staple in PvP builds.

And warriors? Sure, have better cond damage and single target bleeds in me. I have never lost a duel to a Cond damage warrior as a ranger. He can’t REACH me to stack those bleeds. He can’t STUN ME to use that 100B. Warriors are simple. When the cards line up you die, but they have limited set-up or control FOR those burst outside of melee range.

Rangers are complex. When we line our cards up, you can’t HIT us. Your damage is MITIGATED completely. All the while you’re taking damage to either pets, traps, torches, your own PROJECTILES, etc.

I also am loving the one liner generalization posts like: “Another fanboi thread np” “how much does John P pay you” and the like. Because you have nothing to say, because deep down you know your “ANet doesn’t play rangers, they hate rangers” is full of crap and baseless.

So, either learn to Ranger right or re-roll. It seems like there are plenty of us here that want to maximize the potential of this class and be patient with it.

All that said Ravn’s points on our trait lines are valid. That is something I can agree we need work on besides the bugs, because many of our trait lines are bloated and need consolidation (Spirit traits, BM, Pet traits in Skirmishing, etc,) but I feel that discussion for be another thread.

Fate.8673:

snip..

I could go to every other profession forum and go “So what are u guiz better than Rangurs @?” And come back here and say LOOK, LOOK AT HOW GOOD EVERY OTHER CLASS IS AT X, Y, Z. What’s your point? This thread is to discuss what RANGERS are the BEST at. So far I haven’t seen a single argument to persuade me otherwise.

But see this is what some of us are asking. What is a Ranger best at? About the only thing that might even have some weight here is traps. Sure I won’t disagree that Rangers have some pretty sick evasion and that was what I put my hat on for a long time. I ran a build with traits that you didn’t even know the use of before this thread. I worked with other sPvP/WvW guys on the Ranger guru forums to swap notes and build ideas.. I did the work to understand this class in depth. Evasion and range was what I hung my hat on.. and then I played a thief. They have the potential to “evade”, who cares if it is backward, forward, left, or right.. it is still evasion, just as much as rangers. On top of that evasion they can gain swiftness, they can drop caltrops that can cripple and bleed, they can gain stacks of might, and even have a trait that returns endurance after a dodge. So they can evade AND get benefits from it through trait synergies. Sorry.. rangers aren’t the best there.

Fate.8673:

So, either learn to Ranger right or re-roll. It seems like there are plenty of us here that want to maximize the potential of this class and be patient with it.

You were doing pretty good until this last part. Listen nobody is hear flaming you out of the house and I’m personally against all the massive unconstructive QQ happening but people are angry and rightly so. In general it has been a pretty good conversation, but you can’t dismiss what some of us very experienced and knowledgeable rangers are mentioning here. Most of us spend our living in sPvP/WvW and so we understand synergies and builds of multiple classes pretty in depth. Happy to discuss this.. but discounting what others are saying isn’t going to help you create a nice haven. If you want a place to get together and hug some trees.. then title your post that way instead of saying we are “doing it wrong”.

rangers cant control anything. my mesmer can daze, evade and knock back aynone on demand, and my hammer guardian can immobilize, trap and knock back all on a low CD. the true masters of control are eles and mesmers, followed by thieves, hammer warriors and guardians.

i could live with the current pets getting kited (they still do decent damage when they land hits), but their lack of survivability is totally unacceptable.

SB is unfortunately a terribad weapon, as it currently has no burst and lacks condition application. you cant flank good players, period. #2 and #5 are great though.

rangers lack mobility. see mesmers, thieves, eles.

rangers lack reliable condition removal. the signet is often useless if youre actively using your pet, which means it’s likely dead. increasing pet survivability would remedy this.

rangers lack viable specs. only condition builds with traps are currently viable, the rest is laughable.

i believe OP has good intentions trying to “educate” us with his post, but unfortunately, i dont think he/she has played the profession enough (especially in tpvp) to comment on needed changes.

also, ive played the evasion tank at the tpvp level, and it’s all well and good until you get immobilized and CRUSHED. yeah, rangers dont have immobilize-breakers. lulz. until lightning reflexes can break immobilize, sword/dagger is laughable.

The last part, and all parts of this thread like that, are my frustration directed at people saying “y ranger, re-roll warrior thief.” They are people that come in and go “I want to do what a warrior/thief does best on my Ranger, and I can’t do it as well as them so qq.” I’m trying to get those people to understand that this isn’t the class for them, Warrior/THIEF is.

Thief for yourself. Is evasion, just simple “dodge” what you want out of class? Yeah Thieves “dodge” is better than ours. But show my what synergy they have in their traits or skills that make them TANKY in between dodges. LDB can not be chained and is melee and costs 5 initiative. Shortbow 3 does mediocre damage while evading and then they have no points left to use cluster if thats what you spam (which is horribly slow at ranged anyway).

I am not saying you aren’t experienced with other classes/builds, I’m saying you’re approaching the problem from the wrong angle Kharza.

What do you want out of our class? Let’s start with that. To be viable? As stated before you can play a Ranger anyway you want, but there is always going to be a “most viable” build for what you are trying to accomplish.

If you are trying to accomplish Evade spam and being “hard to catch” then Thief is your class. What do you want to happen to the Ranger? For them to buffed to have MORE mobility for the Thief? Then why play a Thief?

Do you want Rangers to buffed to have EQUAL or MORE ranged damage than a warrior? Why play a warrior then?

Do you want us to be able to stack multiple conditions better than a Necro? Then why play a Necro?

Do you see where I am going with this?

Evasion/Mid-Range control/Skirmishing. Doing damage WHILE dodging. Not being paper when our dodges run out (Thief). Not being unable to stick to our target if kited (Warrior).

I just think the anger is being misdirected. I think there are some (yourself included) that are dissatisfied with the current state of the Ranger with the bugs and nerf and are taking it out on our class design unfairly by looking at other classes at saying “well look what THEY can do. What do WE have compared to that? NOTHING.” To say we have nothing is unfair.

Then there is the other half that is angry, because they wanted damage and when that went away with a nerf+bug, they became frigid and unwilling to accept any other style of play the ranger has to offer. Those people need to roll another class, or wait for the SB to be fixed and keep on playing that one spec into the ground.

I’m not “dismissing” any opinion thats well reasoned and shows me how the Ranger falls short compared to other classes. I’m enjoying trying to convince you and others the way our evasion and style is different than a Thieves’. I am “dismissing” people who should not be in this class or forum because they are approaching the Ranger by simplifying it and wanting it to be good at what THEY want it to be good at.

nerva.7940:

also, ive played the evasion tank at the tpvp level, and it’s all well and good until you get immobilized and CRUSHED. yeah, rangers dont have immobilize-breakers. lulz. until lightning reflexes can break immobilize, sword/dagger is laughable.

Immobilize is a very powerful condition, especially against classes with more stunbreakers than Cond removal.

We ourselves have access to Spider F2, Entagling Roots, Muddy Terrain, and Spike trap. Is there another class that can immobilize more than us and in AoE?

Have you tried Empathatic bond/Healing Spring? I see people’s builds in tPvP without Healing Spring and I can’t understand why. The CD for Heal as One is not worth it, HS is too good. Did you know it removes a condition EVERY time it applies Regeneration? Throw a HS down on a point and see if anyone can immobilize you and burst you. Take Signet of Renewal and be quick on the trigger.

Fate.8673:

Did you know it removes a condition EVERY time it applies Regeneration?

Uh, no it doesn’t.

It only removes conditions when cast. Tested.

In addition, you missed the point of Nerva’s post: Rangers do not have a good on-demand Immobilize removal ability like other professions. On encounters like the Nightmare Tree in path 2 (forward/forward) of Twilight Arbor roots frequently. Signet of Renewal’s cures one condition every 10 seconds. The use ability is a 1 minute cooldown (compared to 45 seconds for other professions).

Are you sure you play a Ranger?

deepwinter.9015:

Fate.8673:

Did you know it removes a condition EVERY time it applies Regeneration?

Uh, no it doesn’t.

It only removes conditions when cast. Tested.

In addition, you missed the point of Nerva’s post: Rangers do not have an on-demand Immobilize removal ability like other professions. On encounters like the Nightmare Tree in path 2 (forward/forward) of Twilight Arbor roots frequently. Signet of Renewal’s cures one condition every 10 seconds. This is not an on-demand condition removal and it will get you killed by the veteran spirits.

Are you sure you play a Ranger?

Add to that.. Spike Trap is a cripple not an immobilize.. big difference. Muddy also only does the immobilize on creation not the pulse.

all i want to do is love my ranger. seriously. but i cant. my mesmer and guardian do everything better. everything.

rangers have no viable power builds, which saddens me, and two trait trees are arguably broken. not only do i want the ranger to be good at one thing, but i wanna have options with my builds. i wanna roll as a BM ranger. i wanna roll as melee occasionally. i wanna be able to burst people down. why not hybrid BM/condition, or BM/power. what about spirits? yeah, nothin. also, what do rangers bring to WvW that other profs cant do a better job with?

i dont have problems in PVE. PVE in this game is mostly a joke (as in every other MMO), so i speak of pvp and WvW.

@ Fate.8673 Another point, you love to come and throw all these utilities back here that have these great capabilities, but you ignore the fact that they never make it on to the ranger’s utility bar all that often. Pretty much need to run some form of invuln so that is Protect Me or Signet of Stone (Thieves.. nuff said). You need some form of condition removal so that is Signet of Renewal, which pretty much leaves us with one slot left.. where you can mix and match, but you are going to go for things like Lightning Reflexes and QZ over Muddy here probably.

ArenaNet has stated before that the classes will be balanced around sPvP so that has to be your benchmark for viability. Right now you have 1 (maybe 2.. but it is a stretch) viable builds in sPvP being run by Rangers. That isn’t a lot of options to play the game my way..

I also challenge you like you challenged the ranger community.. maybe you aren’t playing against strong enough competition to see the weaknesses like some of us do.

yeah, basically if you dont have Protect Me, SoS, and SoR on your bar, youre cooked in tpvp.

kharza.3974:

Add to that.. Spike Trap is a cripple not an immobilize.. big difference. Muddy also only does the immobilize on creation not the pulse.

Spike trap always applies an immobilize for me, though it doesn’t appear in the tooltip.

I think it may only do it when traited. Not sure though.