Guild Wars 2

Fate.8673:

Glad for some ranger love in this forum.

M8, you’re making the wrong conclusions. How in your opinion – would people who do not like ranger sit here on the forum and argue to such … how to call … optimists like you that, “YES, THERE ARE PROBLEMS”. And even if u’ll paint all ranger’s sides in bright colors – the problems will remain.

Do not think that I am bragging about it, but I have a ranger with more than 500 hrs played, necromancer, warrior, a thief, engineer, all full exotic 80, on the way elementalist. And I tested long all classes on golems in mists… I played in all pvp, made more than 30 successful races in arah exp, and many in other dungeons. In short, I have a clear view of everything in this game.

BUT

… I sit here, in rangers theme, and scribbling negative posts on the ranger class. You will not find me in any of other profession’s themes. Do you think it’s because I do not love ranger?

What means “reroll to warrior / thief / etc”? I can fully play any class and does not lose smth in this game. But only playing ranger, I want to come here and write negative posts.

I’ve not lost hope that sooner or later, the devs take a look at all these verbally battles and emphasize that something is wrong.

You’re trying to prove to people that ranger is not so bad as they think… in something. But you can not rightly answer the question “not HOW bad?”.

Most loyal characteristic to the ranger is – “ranger have nothing better than other classes”. Although I might add that the ranger can’t even compared with other classes in most aspects.

I can not say that it is not viable. Admit to yourself: it is not possible to do SUCH a bad class, that people could not even play. Yes, I can even kill 2-3 people at once with ranger, it’s easy to solo PvE. BUT it’s not making ranger cool. Because if I were a thief or a warrior – it would be much simpler and easier.

You’re trying to prove that people do not understand the benefits of the ranger, simply because they are not able to notice them? Do not know how to play this class?
I played all bowmans and pet-classes, almost at all games that have them. I am clear about the opportunities and advantages. I think most people here, too.

AND
I can clearly tell you that the ranger in GW2 does not exceed ANY other class in ANYTHING.

Tell me any opportunity of ranger and I will name you the other class, which is better at it. And will explain why.

And I spend time on it just because I LOVE the Ranger as a class and want to see it good.

Spike trap immobilizes for 1 second on activation currently.

Also Healing Spring removes conditions… I am pretty certain of this. I have seen conditions with remaining duration disappear in a healing spring, with no allies around. I find it quite easy to run with no form of Invuln, I only run protect me and SoS if I WANT to be tanky, melee, in the fray and distracting. For ranged it is not necessary and you can take 2 survival skills easily.

Empathatic bond can be your form of Condition removal, which I’ve found is more than enough in most scenarios with Healing Spring.

Maybe I’m not playing against strong enough competition? Maybe. Maybe I am just utilizing my ability to kite/dodge effectively though?

You can run whatever the hell you want in sPvP and be viable. I’ve had fun with my GS/Sword BM burst spec that gets 10+ stacks of might on my pet for the burst (usually Raven).

In tPvP, yeah, there are only going to be only a few viable specs per class. This is to be expected, but with creativity I think any team comp can work. Rangers have plenty of specs to be a duelist, a point holder, group dps, group controller.

I have no idea how anyone can be complaining about the Ranger, I feel like I am cheating just by playing a Ranger.

nerva.7940:

yeah, basically if you dont have Protect Me, SoS, and SoR on your bar, youre cooked in tpvp.

I find that if you have those you are basically a pure tank. You can hold a point WHILE putting out damage with Protect me and SoS while you wait for backup. Eventually you will die yes, but we are not as adept at point holding as Guardian.

If you need 12 seconds of invulnerability and a complete Cond reset to not be “cooked” you are not utilizing your dodges/CC effectively imo.

While I agree with some of what you say, you can’t possibly expect people to run Muddy terrain, spike trap, and ice trap. That is the worst utility skill set up I’ve ever read. I wouldn’t even consider this viable for PvE, better yet PvP. Sure traps create tiny (or if traited slightly larger) combo fields with decent cc, but the downsides are too great to even consider using them. A build like this has no condition removal, stun breaker, damage or condition damage. Sure you can apply about 5 seconds of soft cc, then what? Pray your teammates will do something? Or, a guardian can lock somebody down and proceed to tank, provide heals and buff to allies, and even deal considerable damage. We have our pet that hits one time and dies, then ourselves which have a few evades and moderately low damage. I agree with the spirit of nature being fairly powerful, but honestly it should automatically follow players around without having to be traited. It just seems like making it stationary was an afterthought to give the ranger profession more “depth”.

Healing Spring just doesn’t heal enough imo to make it valid for PvP. The 30 second cooldown + forced stationary gamplay (to regen and remove conditions you need to stand inside it making you an easy target) result in it being a poor healing skill in general. I find that Healing as One is the only valid healing skill due to its short 20s cooldown and nice 6.5k burst heal. However, this may be because it ties more into my gameplay style of being very mobile.

Pray your teammates will do something? Are we talking tPvP here? If your teammates don’t take advantage of AoE lockdown that YOU provide, is that the fault of the ranger class or the fault of your team?

What does the guardian have compared to us in AoE LOCKDOWN, not AoE pushback.

My pet never dies in tPvP. Swap is always up before it dies from AoE. If it is being focused then thats GOOD for me as well. Your post is full of genealizations such as “moderately low damage.” and exaggeration like “pet hits once then dies”

Sure maybe don’t take all 3. Entangle+ Frost trap? Throw some axes watch them bounce? Throw in some AoE Fear/Immobilize? Time and again this is effective in Team vs. Team combat over a major point.

What I find the most funny is how guardians deal “considerable” damage while we deal “moderately low” damage, when I’ve found the reverse is true of our respective support specs.

There’s a lot of negative bias and perception in your post, and “Grass is greener” syndrome. And hell, maybe I’m blinded by my own positive thinking? Who knows.

I just know I’m definitely having fun with my class and not abandoning it.

Fate.8673:

nerva.7940:

yeah, basically if you dont have Protect Me, SoS, and SoR on your bar, youre cooked in tpvp.

I find that if you have those you are basically a pure tank. You can hold a point WHILE putting out damage with Protect me and SoS while you wait for backup. Eventually you will die yes, but we are not as adept at point holding as Guardian.

If you need 12 seconds of invulnerability and a complete Cond reset to not be “cooked” you are not utilizing your dodges/CC effectively imo.

well im starting to question if youve ever even done tpvp >.< dont mean to be insulting, but thinking that a few effective dodge rolls will save you from a condition build or a good team that knows how to immobilize + focus fire, sounds a little out of touch.

when someone is trying to kill you, it goes something like: immobilize, daze, daze, knockback, immobilize, daze. i play a good evasion tank ranger, so i know all about dodging. but rangers just dont have the utility if you spec for survivability. and power builds arent viable.

Great post.
Refreshing to see such positive feedback. Arenanet has done a great job with this game yet people will complain about this and that instead of enjoying what is good.

I’m playing tPvP with some guildies (not a full group) right now. I’m running SB/LB in spite of SB QZ, with Wolf/Drakehound pets. Having no trouble kiting/ CCing from Ranged, or causing havoc with my pet.

My pets hurt too, in this recent match (gotten to final round waiting for other match to finish) I soloed a thief from 80% while downed with my pet, just by timing my 2 correctly.

Pets do damage. So make sure youre paying attention to them. Man when one of my dogs knocks someone down its lights out.

But yes I tPvP pretty regularly as well as dungeon and WvW. You’ll have to trust me when I say I played the ranger up and down inside and out before I would even think of making a thread like this

Clearly, many people complain about, just because they love to complain. But many are there because aware the reality of presence of the problems and shortcomings. Do you think it’s better if people wouldn’t care?

Fate.8673:

I’m playing tPvP with some guildies (not a full group) right now. I’m running SB/LB in spite of SB QZ, with Wolf/Drakehound pets. Having no trouble kiting/ CCing from Ranged, or causing havoc with my pet.

My pets hurt too, in this recent match (gotten to final round waiting for other match to finish) I soloed a thief from 80% while downed with my pet, just by timing my 2 correctly.

Pets do damage. So make sure youre paying attention to them. Man when one of my dogs knocks someone down its lights out.

But yes I tPvP pretty regularly as well as dungeon and WvW. You’ll have to trust me when I say I played the ranger up and down inside and out before I would even think of making a thread like this

Ok. And what classes u played seriously besides ranger?
You must be aware of what it means – balance. You should know that there are noobs, and there are pro, casuals and grinders, some people play better than others … You can win with unbalanced class of people who play worse than you. But if you will fight with person playing another, god balansed, class at your skill level and knowing your class, you’ll never defeat him, just because your class is weaker. And ranger is weaker than all others.

Why in gods name would they undo the shortbow nerf? It isnt meant to do raw damage, what they should do is make it apply bleed on auto attack no matter if its flanking or not. Not increase the attack speed. They need to focus on weapons that need the attention like GS and LB. Quit acting like you are the only ranger who plays, they wont buff longbows attack speed or damage, it makes no sense.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Fate.8673:

I’m playing tPvP with some guildies (not a full group) right now. I’m running SB/LB in spite of SB QZ, with Wolf/Drakehound pets. Having no trouble kiting/ CCing from Ranged, or causing havoc with my pet.

My pets hurt too, in this recent match (gotten to final round waiting for other match to finish) I soloed a thief from 80% while downed with my pet, just by timing my 2 correctly.

Pets do damage. So make sure youre paying attention to them. Man when one of my dogs knocks someone down its lights out.

But yes I tPvP pretty regularly as well as dungeon and WvW. You’ll have to trust me when I say I played the ranger up and down inside and out before I would even think of making a thread like this

Ok. And what classes u played seriously besides ranger?
You must be aware of what it means – balance. You should know that there are noobs, and there are pro, casuals and grinders, some people play better than others … You can win with unbalanced class of people who play worse than you. But if you will fight with person playing another, god balansed, class at your skill level and knowing your class, you’ll never defeat him, just because your class is weaker. And ranger is weaker than all others.

Like stated before, my Thief is my main alt. I also played Mesmer in all the betas and have on I sPvP with occasionally.

I regularly duel my warrior friend to try out specs. I have only lost to him when I tried melee ranger against his Sword/Sword bleed build, because he could out dps me in melee. I consider him to be more skilled at this game as well, so its funny that most people are leaving Ranger for Warrior when in that specific match up I think our kit is better than theirs in a duel. My warrior friend also laughed when I mentioned this thread and that people were re-rolling because “Warrior ranged weapons suck.” So there you go.

Sit back and look at your post, Ranger is flat out weaker than all others in every duel in every matchup? What are you trying to say? In duels we have easy and hard matchups, with Guardian and Necro being the toughest because of our lack of Retaliation stripping and complete cond removal.

Are you saying teamfights? What we bring to the team is straight up worse than all other classes? Don’t you realize how close minded that is? We bring something DIFFERENT to the team. I and many others have stated what that is several times in this thread, I’m not going to beat the dead horse any longer.

So i’ve been going around the forums to see if my Theory that everyone compares themselves to either warriors or Guardians is true.

Surely this is it, this was the finale class Needed to prove without a doubt that every single class is terrible other than Warriors, or at least the entire player base thinks that.

If you don’t believe me, go to any class forum and you will see posts exactly like this. People saying Warriors or guardians can do better.

So when 80% of the overall classes are “Bad” or ineffective, what does that make the 20% by comparison?

As a side note, every forums literally makes it sound like 80% of the classes are useless and unplayable, even if glitches were fixed. This is disheartening, I can’t even decide what class to role next since most of them are unplayable(supposedly)

Bard.7215:

So i’ve been going around the forums to see if my Theory that everyone compares themselves to either warriors or Guardians is true.

Surely this is it, this was the finale class Needed to prove without a doubt that every single class is terrible other than Warriors, or at least the entire player base thinks that.

If you don’t believe me, go to any class forum and you will see posts exactly like this. People saying Warriors or guardians can do better.

So when 80% of the overall classes are “Bad” or ineffective, what does that make the 20% by comparison?

As a side note, every forums literally makes it sound like 80% of the classes are useless and unplayable, even if glitches were fixed. This is disheartening, I can’t even decide what class to role next since most of them are unplayable(supposedly)

The reason people always compare themselves to warriors is that warriors are middle ground. They’re basically the class that the devs declared balanced, what they’re all aiming for.

I really do want to play the ranger, grab a sword and an offhand dagger, sprint around, and flying kick my enemies to the face while my owl slices them down. It just never works out though. Like many people said, the pets are pretty broken. My owl CAN do large critical damage, but it doesn’t, because it almost never hits. That means my sword attacks by themselves are relatively weak and the might buff my pets get from the 3rd hit doesn’t do anything.

Fate.8673:

Pray your teammates will do something? Are we talking tPvP here? If your teammates don’t take advantage of AoE lockdown that YOU provide, is that the fault of the ranger class or the fault of your team?

What does the guardian have compared to us in AoE LOCKDOWN, not AoE pushback.

My pet never dies in tPvP. Swap is always up before it dies from AoE. If it is being focused then thats GOOD for me as well. Your post is full of genealizations such as “moderately low damage.” and exaggeration like “pet hits once then dies”

Sure maybe don’t take all 3. Entangle+ Frost trap? Throw some axes watch them bounce? Throw in some AoE Fear/Immobilize? Time and again this is effective in Team vs. Team combat over a major point.

What I find the most funny is how guardians deal “considerable” damage while we deal “moderately low” damage, when I’ve found the reverse is true of our respective support specs.

There’s a lot of negative bias and perception in your post, and “Grass is greener” syndrome. And hell, maybe I’m blinded by my own positive thinking? Who knows.

I just know I’m definitely having fun with my class and not abandoning it.

You can’t call soft cc “lockdown”, it just doesn’t work that way. They can evade or use condition removal if they feel like they need to. Also, the only ranged aoe hard cc we have is Muddy Terrain and Spike Trap (if traited). I never once stated I dislike playing as my ranger, you read my post with a predisposition of negativity.

You know, I would much rather see your build or builds. I’ve played hundreds of sPvP and tPvP matches on my ranger. So if you don’t mind, post it. And since I know you won’t, thanks for nothing pal. Next.

Fate.8673:

The last part, and all parts of this thread like that, are my frustration directed at people saying “y ranger, re-roll warrior thief.” They are people that come in and go “I want to do what a warrior/thief does best on my Ranger, and I can’t do it as well as them so qq.” I’m trying to get those people to understand that this isn’t the class for them, Warrior/THIEF is.

Thief for yourself. Is evasion, just simple “dodge” what you want out of class? Yeah Thieves “dodge” is better than ours. But show my what synergy they have in their traits or skills that make them TANKY in between dodges. LDB can not be chained and is melee and costs 5 initiative. Shortbow 3 does mediocre damage while evading and then they have no points left to use cluster if thats what you spam (which is horribly slow at ranged anyway).

Snip

Evasion/Mid-Range control/Skirmishing. Doing damage WHILE dodging. Not being paper when our dodges run out (Thief). Not being unable to stick to our target if kited (Warrior).

I just think the anger is being misdirected. I think there are some (yourself included) that are dissatisfied with the current state of the Ranger with the bugs and nerf and are taking it out on our class design unfairly by looking at other classes at saying “well look what THEY can do. What do WE have compared to that? NOTHING.” To say we have nothing is unfair.

Then there is the other half that is angry, because they wanted damage and when that went away with a nerf+bug, they became frigid and unwilling to accept any other style of play the ranger has to offer. Those people need to roll another class, or wait for the SB to be fixed and keep on playing that one spec into the ground.

I’m not “dismissing” any opinion thats well reasoned and shows me how the Ranger falls short compared to other classes. I’m enjoying trying to convince you and others the way our evasion and style is different than a Thieves’. I am “dismissing” people who should not be in this class or forum because they are approaching the Ranger by simplifying it and wanting it to be good at what THEY want it to be good at.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY6YlcmKPncy5E+5EymiKUo8eQWoVY1pgrsKA;TwAAzCpogxAjAGrPOfk+sqYEwehZFA

This thief build in fact can chain LDB repeatedly for basically ever. A few things can be swapped around on it too, but that’s the general idea. Bleed aoe condition spec, a huge ridiculous number of evades while doing damage. I forgot the sigils, hmm… Agony/Earth work best. Makes for faster bleed stacking, and 14 sec duration on LDB bleeds, which is pretty nasty.

That’d be at least 4700 bleed damage (over time) per LDB per target, minimum (assuming not removed, ofc). This spec can chain 4 LDBs at the open of combat, due high Init total, and increased Init regen rate. Afterwards can activate signets, or steal to add more, in an actual AOE environment, with multiple targets, LDB often regens 2 init from use, but almost guaranteed 1 regen, it’s general net cost is roughly only 3 though, after comp for that regen… toss in the 6 init every 12 sec from heal sig, 2 init per 10 from trait, you’ll very…very…very rarely after minutes of continuous fighting find you run out of init. It’s like the LDB energizer bunny.

Not saying it’s a perfect spec by any means, but if you like AOE conditions while evading, this spec is unbeatable by anything I’ve yet seen in game. It by itself can dish out a full 25 stack of bleeds in an AOE, and keep them up a very large portion of the time, even in sustained fights….all while evading. That doesn’t even consider the potential 100% vigor uptime and (effective) reduced dodge endurance cost. Basically, what I am saying… is that the dodges don’t run out.

But to address your earlier reply to me; Yes, at some points in my rant I was exaggerating and being disingenuous. The ranger isn’t “actually” the devs whipping boy to beat on when they need to vent. It just feels like it lately. And most of the stuff I mentioned about not caring about what others complain about wasn’t meant to imply that you do, just that I suspected you potentially “might”, and if you (or really anyone) does, my advice was simply to not let it bother you. I didn’t mean it to come across harshly or judgmental in any way if it did. I am moderately frustrated, and only am because I do in fact enjoy my ranger (thematically, at least), but feel like it is being neglected in ways that astonish me. I know that developing and maintaining a game this complex isn’t a small task, time and energy expenditures just to keep it running are immense… I am generally very patient and forgiving. I am reacting to a shift in demeanor from the developers, though…. and from that most of my “doom and gloom” stems.

Fate, you are a very sane person who knows your class extremely well.

You have a very good message about that class, too.

I hope the forums do not swallow your spirit.

Othayuni.7369:

Fate, you are a very sane person who knows your class extremely well.

You have a very good message about that class, too.

I hope the forums do not swallow your spirit.

This is SUCH a bad way to encourage someone / anyone. Makes it look like you are the same guy or his friend or a fanboi +1-ing the thread/ Sorry but it looks like it a lot.

2nd there is no supporting reason why his posting is good or how you agree with it or how it helps you. Aka comes across like false advertising and useless.

3rdly, in 3 lines (actually in the 6th word) you insulted everyone that does not agree with Fate or are on the fence. Way to go man.

Fate does not need someone like you to “help him”. I think he has valid points. I might not agree with all. But yea I respect him. Your post help push me in the other direction.

Ranger conceptually is a great class. It needs some twitches to help improve it. Nothing major. The changes have been discussed to death on this forums across near every post many times over. With nothing happening, that we can see.

The way I see it, is actually all boils down to a simple issue, I think.

The issue: People are angry at Anet for the way they communicate and the way they handle changes to the game.

Most people are not angry that our class is currently mostly sub-par to others. After all, that can be fixed. Most people can also live with the huge list of bugs out there.

What people do not like and turning many to rage, is the way Anet and specifically JonPeter is handling the ranger class currently . And more specifically how the “animation glitch” was handled. The way they did it was really insulting and unprofessional.

To make it worst before that SB “nerf”, Anet seemed to be ignoring Ranger and the many bug issues. Then suddenly they fixed an “animation glitch” fix, to fix something no one experienced? Instead of the many bugs? After which they “ignored” the outcry in the forums and if they bothered to respond, ignored the multiple pages of concerns and maths on why crossfire is broken. Going back to silence both in the patches and forum. And oh they silenced us again by closing the thread concerning the issue.

The way they handled ranger from game start till now (so far) is like a BIG “we don’t care” and “middle finger” towards rangers. THAT is what many are kitten OFF about. This rage, is then now directed to ANYTHING concerning ranger. Every small issue is now big. Every bug is now a huge s c r e w you from Anet.

So if Anet had actually bothered to paid more attention to ranger users and the animation issue, then there will not be so much rage and anger. But they did not. So now prepare the pitch forks and gas bombs, many are going to show their displeasure at any thing Anet does. After all our glasses are now RAGE coloured. And everything Anet now does will be coloured by the way they handled our beloved class.

Down with Anet!!! Up with Ranger!!! And all those types of hypes.

That’s actually a very valid post gadenp.

First, though Ranvo, you mention Thieves and LDB spam. That’s a one trick pony build. Bleeds are pretty much the ONLY condition they can spam. Bleeds which count as one condition and can be removed that way.

And yes Initiative wise you can spam LDB. But there is a delay after each cast where it CANNOT be combod into another one. You are vulnerable to CC (Point blank shot being perfect here, for the LB haters) for ~1sec between casts.

You’re talking damage here. Again. Damage. Yes Thieves will surpass us in damage. Their AoE bleed stacking will do more over time than us. I’m fine with that.

But they don’t have AoE, BURNING (this is a BURST condition), Chill, Poison, Immobilize, Immobilize+Bleeds.

Also Quickness. I haven’t used this even though its been key to every build I’ve ever rolled on Ranger, but we have the most access to quickness in the game (reliable, because I know thieves have a built in Sigil of Rage trait), every 16-20 seconds. This alone can make us time our bursts effectively and finish people off. When SB QZ is fixed, it will give us the most burst more OFTEN (how often can a warrior frenzy+100B? How often can a Thief set-up his backstab burst?) from RANGED.

Offhand (and your link is broken) I am not aware how Thieves have access to 100% Vigor. Yes they have a form of “evade while doing damage” just like we have a form of “single target burst.” But I’d argue ours is better. We can chain our evades, our pet is doing damage while we are evading, and we have control built into our aoe damage while evading.

Anyway @gadenp and all:

Yeah I’d say, in Sociology terms, that’s probably exactly the emotions and how they were caused that set off this attack against rangers.

But the attack is misguided. People are saying the DESIGN of Rangers is flawed, and how we are good at NOTHING compared to other classes. This is false.

The constructive way to handle that anger is to go to General discussion or something, and make a 100 page thread about “The way you handle patches and changes to this game suck. We’re tired of being lied to” because don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of it either. Hiding a straight up nerf while also breaking a skill under the guise of “animation nerf” is just straight dripping with sleaze. Having no time to discuss upcoming “planned” changes or test them is unheard of and BS. But that’s PR, its probably a whole different department from the devs that designed this class who I like.

Fate.8673:

That’s actually a very valid post gadenp.

First, though Ranvo, you mention Thieves and LDB spam. That’s a one trick pony build. Bleeds are pretty much the ONLY condition they can spam. Bleeds which count as one condition and can be removed that way.

And yes Initiative wise you can spam LDB. But there is a delay after each cast where it CANNOT be combod into another one. You are vulnerable to CC (Point blank shot being perfect here, for the LB haters) for ~1sec between casts.

You’re talking damage here. Again. Damage. Yes Thieves will surpass us in damage. Their AoE bleed stacking will do more over time than us. I’m fine with that.

But they don’t have AoE, BURNING (this is a BURST condition), Chill, Poison, Immobilize, Immobilize+Bleeds.

Also Quickness. I haven’t used this even though its been key to every build I’ve ever rolled on Ranger, but we have the most access to quickness in the game (reliable, because I know thieves have a built in Sigil of Rage trait), every 16-20 seconds. This alone can make us time our bursts effectively and finish people off. When SB QZ is fixed, it will give us the most burst more OFTEN (how often can a warrior frenzy+100B? How often can a Thief set-up his backstab burst?) from RANGED.

Offhand (and your link is broken) I am not aware how Thieves have access to 100% Vigor. Yes they have a form of “evade while doing damage” just like we have a form of “single target burst.” But I’d argue ours is better. We can chain our evades, our pet is doing damage while we are evading, and we have control built into our aoe damage while evading.

Hrm. Well, it’s a 0/20/0/20/30 build, it picks up signet use for reduced signets 20% and +2 init on signet use. Couple with the trickery +4 init on heal trait, gives +6 init on the signet heal, which has (now) a 12 sec cd. Couple with the gain vigor (10 sec) on heal trait (Vigorous Recovery, Acrobatics line)…which gets bumped to 12 sec from trait +20% boon duration. 100% uptime if use heal on cd. Could pick up the vigor on steal trait (Bountiful Theft, 15 sec AOE vigor, Trickery line) if you want to truly guarantee 100% uptime. But that’s excessive imo.
It brings the thief’s dodge capability up to par with the ranger who specs for 50% endurance and 100% vigor uptime. And yes… LDB has a pause where you can get hit, but every evade does, though some are smaller than others, true. However, I must say, LDB while under quickness is complete invulnerability for as long as your init holds out, which can be a considerable string of time if done right.
Utility slot, can be filled with a venom (though I wouldn’t, for my taste), if “AOE” immobilize/chill/whatever is desired. The one thing you were right on was burning, thieves have a stark lack of it. And AOE conditions besides bleed/poison are not “readily” available. But, the cool perk about being able to execute near continuous LDBs… whirl finishers. So you can AOE finishers all day long, which is pretty potent in its own right.
I do agree too that Ranger has the most readily available quickness. The attack speed of shortbow and the abundance of quickness was, in fact, the draw of why I ended up maining a Ranger. The blurred attacks because of so much speed, lightning fast strikes like a barrage of destruction, death of a thousand cuts style combat is exactly what I loved the most about Ranger. While the quickness may still be there, the feel of the class is dead to me now, and I’m saddened for it. But I digress.
I really do think Rangers do conditions well, and that they do evades/dodges well too. But at the very least Thief is equal in those categories. (Though I still think thief can evade more often/readily) Rangers only real edge, I’d say, is that single target CCs don’t “fully” control them, as the pet is still free the wreak havoc. They can also use LoS to a greater extent in that regard too, because they are partially in 2 places at once.
But when it comes to potential output they’re behind, even in the things they are good at.

Tell us master fate , what roll we shine at in PvP ? ( play high end rank pvp people dont roll rangers for it )

Tell us master fate how much about dps in dungeon we do , and how groups look to rangers ( pets die , you lose dps there are other better range class options, are ulitity is sub-par no reason to bring a ranger )

This is just another person who is owns some noobs in pvp then thinks he is great , and the class is fine !!

Put master vs master players hands down no class is worse then the ranger as of now . We are balanced around pets and pets cant do damage because of movement , and death , are main ulitity spirits are broken.

I feel like being in a church/mosque.
The priest preaches “Rangers are fine, Rangers are fine.”
People who do/did the maths, or compared numbers are getting ignored.
Posts which contain numerical examples get answered with “You’re wrong”.
“I can kill two enemies in random PvP, so you have to be a bad player who doesnt know his class.” Feels like “Look at the tree over there, his existence profs that there is a god”.

Really.
There is no other comparison for such a blind kind of ignorance.
Maths gets ignored.
Phrases are repeated like prayers.
Text fragments get taken out of context.
And like the 0815 hardliner people block their mind towards any valid argumentation.

I spent my time to gather numbers and compare them, playtested several hundred hours.
So did many other people.
But any attempt of having a fact-based and well founded discussion is blown up at this section of the forum.
Hell, I still don’t get why people feel personally attacked, when you point out what is bad about a character class in a video game.

No wonder Anet doesn’t care to respond.
This ignorance is too much too handle, if I was an Anet employee I wouldn’t bother those Ranger forum topics either.

I’m out.
See you in a few months.
Make your bets:
Do Rangers get buffed= they’re underpowered.
Or don’t they = they’re fine.

So long.
Cya ingame.

What numbers Sdric? Show me. Show me any number theorist who can show me that me+my Pet+6, yes SIX seconds of Quickness is not one of the highest MOBILE burst damage combos in the game.

I have 15 points in BM, and The 30% increased crit damage trait. With this I was seeing 5-6k CRITS on my Raven F2, regular 4k+ crits on my cats attacks.

Those crits were my pet ALONE. Rapid fire can crit for 6k+, Sword 1 crits for 1200 regularly with my build.

And I say mobile burst because we are NOT locked in one place like 100B or Pistol whip. We do NOT need to be behind them and stealthed like backstab.

Yes Sword MH 1 locks us into an ANIMATION. But with quickness, that animation gap closes and cripples our target. Get on a target, swap pets and then pop QZ. That is 6 seconds of burst that most classes are 1. Not expecting from a melee ranger 2. Can’t escape from because they are crippled and the gap close on the MH 1 chain is hard to get away from.

I would not use Sword 1 as it is without quickness, the bug where you are locked into an animation is too risky in PvE and PvP. But for that 6 second quickness burst, hell kitten yeah I’ll mash that, sometimes too often and they are downed with extra button presses in 1 still going on them >_>

I’m TIRED of this FALLACY that people have ingrained into the ranger forums “pets can’t do **** because they can’t hit their target”

I guaranfrickintee the people that are saying this set their pet to auto attack someone, and whine when nothing happens.

Can you imagine a Warrior or Thief saying “I cant do **** for burst because they just walk away from my 100b/backstab. Our class is broke.”

??? Pets are a significant source of damage. With them our burst is very potent (Rapid fire+Pet, Sword 1+pet, hopefully once again SB+pet) on PAR with other classes.

The “Numbers” people you are referring to? If they come in here and show me item for item Ranger weapons alone versus other classes, I’m not going to listen.

If you want to talk the “Numbers” of our traits? I’ve already agreed that that+Spirits is something that could be adjusted for our class. This has NOTHING to do with the design of the class itself. There are ways with the current build of GW2 to be very effective with the Ranger.

To whoever said I won’t post my build because, I don’t know because they think I’m talking out my kitten or something, I’ve mentioned my set-ups several times in this thread.

Currently running, for tPvP, Sword/Axe, Axe/Warhorn and 0-25-30-0-15 set-up with 4 Ogre Runes, 2 Divinity Runes, and Berserker Amulet with Valkyrie jewel. Utilities are Healing Spring, SoRenewal, Ice Trap/LR (depending on enemy team), QZ, Entangle/Spirit of Nature

Traits: Skirmishing-30% Pet Crit damage, Either Ranged Traps/Honed Axes/Carniverous Apetite for the second line.
WS-20% Reduced Survival CD/Vigorous Renewal, Off-hand Mastery, Empathatic Bond

I specifically tested the condition renewal on HS last night and it DOES give Vigor on each tick of regen and it DOES remove a condition at the same time. Tested without any allies near, cripple applied to myself, got vigor the SAME time cripple was removed

This gives me that huge single target burst with Sword I mentioned in my last post. Also I forgot to mention in that burst you also have WARHORN 4 and RAMPAGE AS ONE before you do the 6 seconds of quickness. Show me some numbers on THAT burst. Well over 15k potential. The build also has some AoE ice trap+Chilling bolts/Reflect with Axe offhand. And Decent AoE dps with Axe mainhand (those bounces hurt with my crit damage set-up.)

For tankiness I can disengage with Sword 2+LR+Dodge rolls pretty effectively. I’m much sturdier than my Thief in team fights (it helps that no one “respects” rangers dps and makes us low priority.)

For whoever said “if you think dodge rolls can survive CONDITIONS+CC+FOCUS FIRE you are out of your mind.”

hmm? You’re right. If I got focused like that ina team setting and wasn’t able to cleanse immobilize and disengage, I would definitely die with this set-up. That’s because my bursty ranger build, or most CLASSES burst builds, are countered by heavy conditions CC and focus fire… what class isn’t in their burst spec?

Now if I WANTED to be able to survive that sort of burst. I’d take Great Sword, Sword/Dagger, throw in Ice Trap with SoS/Protect me, and go to TOWN while people focused me for 20 seconds to take down while the rest of my group was free. If you build tanky we have the tools, if you want to be burst we have the tools, if you want to click two buttons and expect your burst to be equal to warriors/thieves we do NOT have that capacity (unless they stand still for your pets obv…)

Well….
So…. your spirits operate efficiently and long? Your signets do not work only at half on u? Your lightning reflexes always break stunn? Your pet will live perfectly under mobs in all dungeons? He can attacks on the walls or from the walls on WvW? Can quickly get to any high hurdle? Does not die in the AoE? You can make a lot of effective specs? You can create a good build without using BM line? You are often using SaR, sick em or guard? Do you have a burst without QZ? Often use greatsword, axes? Can you do build on the basis of boons? You have a lot of powerful AoE ranged? Melee? Can do good damage without using traps? Your short bow causes bleeding in front? Can you do build with condition damage without a short bow? Your pets attack moving targets well? You have adequate conditions removing? Can u overdamage any class when your pet died?

Please, calm down already. You may very well play a ranger. You like it. Ok.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THIS CLASS GOOD . Ranger is HALF of the class. He terribly unfinished. And the fact that you are accustomed, can bypass and ignore the imperfection, not force people to believe in the fact that this class is a good one. Especially people who do not like imperfection.

Quote : Fate
“What numbers Sdric? Show me. Show me any number theorist who can show me that me+my Pet+6, yes SIX seconds of Quickness is not one of the highest MOBILE burst damage combos in the game.
I have 15 points in BM, and The 30% increased crit damage trait. With this I was seeing 5-6k CRITS on my Raven F2, regular 4k+ crits on my cats attacks.
Those crits were my pet ALONE. Rapid fire can crit for 6k+, Sword 1 crits for 1200 regularly with my build. "
Quote Fate

This tells me all I need to know , who gets hit by these pets ? I tell you noobs ! Sure one hit now and then I get , but no good players get hit by pets.
Our DPS is balanced around our pets ! IN dungeons are pets get owned ! even with careful management , there is a lot of down time for them . What is left when you cant hit people or pet down time ?

LOW DPS

Excellent post. On my server, Rangers get a lot of guff because its the choice of a bot generation! I hear everything from “Ranger=Easy mode” to, “Ranger’s can’t do enough damage!” Its nice to see there are people like the OP who agree with my point of view. Also, thanks for giving such detailed information. You taught me several things that I think will help me be better at my profession! hugs OP

Ageia.5843:

Excellent post. On my server, Rangers get a lot of guff because its the choice of a bot generation! I hear everything from “Ranger=Easy mode” to, “Ranger’s can’t do enough damage!” Its nice to see there are people like the OP who agree with my point of view. Also, thanks for giving such detailed information. You taught me several things that I think will help me be better at my profession! hugs OP

Naaah… Rangers is good. But they have many disadvantages. Too much. What makes them worse in many situations than other classes. However, there are and advantages. For example, in pve you have 50% less chanses to die, because there is a 50% probability that the mobs will attack your pet. Plus there are a few weapons wich have 100% in “1” ability.
This makes the class ideal for bots. If you see this as plus – this class just for you.

Fate.8673:

-Mobility
This is what Warriors DON"T have. You dodge their bulls charge or stun break it? What do they do. They cry. They get kited. By YOU.

As a warrior, I gave a hearty bellowing laugh. It is just completely untrue.

We got tons of CC removal when you place measly cripples/chills/immobilization on us. Our most popular Healing shout build will clean off any CC on us. That is also mobility. A thief that has 100% more movement speed cannot escape when immobilized.

Savage Leap, Earthshakers are leaps. With Savage Leap + Hamstring + Flurry I can make you Rangers panic for your life. Earthshaker is a leap as well.

Signet of Rage gives us 30 second of swiftness in a 60 second cooldown, when you don’t add any points to Tactics. Add Warhorn and you get perma-swiftness warrior. The 5 skill on warrior gives us vigor and gives you weakness. This gives us more dodge per minute and gives you less dodge per minute.

I agree with Fate, if you enjoy ranger you need to learn to master it and that is how you’ll exploit the best of it. Ranger truly revolves around control because quick kills and lengthy fights are not exactly our forte, we live somewhere in the middle. Jack of all trades is not a panacea to all solutions unless you know how to adapt to the situation. The most abused example of ranger fail is when you have to face a thief. You can usually see a thief coming, set up your traps, start shooting long-range attacks, call your pet close to you, get your flee ready and for the love of all that is good get the spirit of nature if you don’t have it, it is an amazingly instantaneous come-back-from-the-dead-in-your-face to any thief who wastes all their initiative OR any other character who wastes their cool downs to bring down a ranger, not to mention you can pop up that great sword and put it where it’s going to hurt them. Now, does that sound a lot like what you need to do for every single dire situation? To prepare, wait, analyze, create diversion, pay attention to your cool downs and harass your enemy until its last breath? The answer is yes, of course. It goes without saying that the ranger needs retouching in certain areas where it is clearly failing constantly, but where our weaknesses shine this is where our allies must rise. If you want to be a good ranger, learn control and adaptability, get good at it, take pride in knowing what it really takes to take down enemies that dwarf other rangers than yourself; then you will only have real ranger class issues to complain about instead of nuisances.

@Fate, I loved my Ranger before the SB nerf despite the fact it was underpowered. (I won’t repeat all the posts proving many of your statements wrong).

I don’t want to have to completely change my playstyle because of an unintended nerf. (remember this was supposed to be an ANIMATION only fix). If I want a different playstyle I would choose a different class, which I have.

Your post is pointless and simply wrong. The Ranger should not have been nerfed and the bugs need to be fixed, not have everyone change their playstyles simply because Anet can’t or won’t fix the bugs fast enough.