Guild Wars 2

I’ve been rolling ranger since the game first game out, and I have accumulated all kinds of exotic gear sets/weapons (crit damage/burst build, condition build, toughness/heal build).

No matter what build (including all kinds of gear, trait and utility skill combos) I go for, I just can’t get close to the kind of beastly damage other professions are capable of (namely warrior and thief). I have rolled an 80 thief with mere rare gear (incl weapons) and the damage output in both PvP and PvE is several orders of magnitude higher than that of my ranger. God knows what it could do fully geared. I mean, compare the sheer damage output of the warrior 2 skill ‘hundred blades’ with that of the ranger 2 skill ‘rapid fire’ – the latter is just so much weaker.

The fact that pets are seriously, seriously shameful doesn’t help matters, especially since they are supposed to account for a substantial percentage of our damage output. I mean, they can’t even hit moving targets. Not to mention the F2 skill being frustratingly buggy.

Overall I just find this disappointing because ranger has always been my favourite profession to play, especially with plenty of variation in builds. I don’t think it’s right that power should be sacrificed in the name of fun. Anet really need to give us some decent buffs – even if they only fix the terrible pet situation it will help a bit.

If you want pure burst damage then try full zerker traits and gear. Use RaO, LB rapid fire, Jaguar with F2 timed well and QZ. Use muddy terrain or entangle instead of RaO and and watch them melt. Then watch yourself melt since you have 0 survivability.

Or open with a stun and use axe 5 with jaguar using same method. Except on this one you need to pray they don’t have a stunbreak.

Believe me, full zerker was the first build I went for. I used the whole machine-gun type buffed LB rapid fire skills and could rarely get over 10k damage when fully buffed. A lot of this counts on quickening zephyr in pvp too, and if you mess up it’s a fairly long recharge.

Ya. I know. That’s why you add the jaguar in there. If you’re going for full burst. Or you could use a drake and use signet of the hunt active before he tail swirls and hit for like 8kish on that too (with crit).

I just don’t even bother with pets anymore. When your pvp target is running around like a madman and dodging all over the place, your pet has no chance to hit. I will try out the suggestion though ’cos it sounds pretty good, but I will only start taking pets seriously if Anet actually start letting them hit moving targets.

You could always just chill, cripple, immo, or stun/daze your target or use melee or all of the above to help your pet out.

Yeah I guess so, but I just love playing a ranging ranger too much :P

Trying to play a glass cannon as anything other then a Mesmer/Thief (and possibly Elementalist) is pointless.

Xsorus.2507:

Trying to play a glass cannon as anything other then a Mesmer/Thief (and possibly Elementalist) is pointless.

If you are talking about full zerker 30/30/x/x/x with mainly offensive utilities or sig of stone. Then I agree. If not then I disagree.

Funny thing, rangers never struck me as a class to go “damage overkill” on, they struck me as always more suitable for other things. In Guild Wars 1 this was the insane amount of conditions you could stack in short periods and perhaps the second-best interruption class you could play. That’s without dipping into secondary classes.

In EverQuest, rangers were great at kiting and once you had a supply of arrows and a good ranged bow you could pretty much own stuff without really risking much in open world play. Later on raids they were almost demanded for their ability to DPS for a very short, very intense period.

Guild Wars 2 seems to split the balance. PvE wise there is some incredible survival ability if you’re not jumping into 40-300 mobs and expecting to come out alive. I’ve heard that they’re actually not too bad on PvP side, but you can’t build them the same way you would another class.

Anyway, bottom line? I find them not as powerful up front as other classes but I don’t feel the need to go begging for a buff. I think I just need to “lern 2 play”.

You have to consider the damage of your pet. If your pet cant hit anything then you havent L2P the class. Two objects moving in the same direction with a 3 second distance between them will maint this distant unless one is slowed or speed-up.

Melee attacks skills have leaps and jump which are speed boost without them you would never catch a target. Pets dont really have this so you the player need to slow the targets dopwn for your pet.

Thieves have burst damge but spend alot of time not dealing damge.

We do lack a little bit of damage as the 40% of our damage that comes from our pet doesnt get bonuses from our crit damage and our condition damge. This is both an advantage and distadvantage.

While allows you to spec into none damage traits but you will still be able to deal decent damage with your pet.

You also need to compare types of damage in genral melee has more damage. Most ranger simply us a bow. Not really a fair comparison if your comparing a bow vs a sword or great sword. Yes our great sword sucks. However even the off-hand axe crits for 4k with path of scar (2k each way).

With all the so-called damge a thief has a thief will not stand toe to toe with a ranger. (yes I know stealth is the mechanism but really stealthing 5 times in one fight) It’s not always about damge.

compared to mesmers, thieves, d/d eles, and guardians they are up.

compared to the rest they arent.

Pop quickening zephyr with your barrage and rapid fire. It actually lasts long enough to almost complete both skills if you pop it just after you start barrage. (Barrage discharges very quickly with QZ). As with all other classes/builds, situational awareness combined with the use of appropriate skills at hand is more important than the numbers you are able to get.

I rolled a ranger for tourna play a couple of days ago and I’m incredibly surprised on how strong and successful ranger is in pvp even with very minimal experience with the class. Ranger is definitely not UP in tpvp, but I guess for someone who is used to always fighting with a handicap (I main a warrior in tournas), it was a pleasant discovery of finding a both strong 1v1 and teamfight build from a profession I tried out and liked in beta. I think it’s one of the strongest builds beside the necropeeler to kill bunkers and eles.

I bet it’s obvious, that I’m playing trapper. Anyways this is what I’m using currently: http://tiny.cc/2oixtw

If some of the veteran rangers could help me finetune my build, I would appreciate it greatly. I’d love some information on pet and offhand choices, some comments on healing spring vs troll unget and empathic bond vs bark skin. If it’s not too much then I’d like some tips on how to use sword more defensively aswell, I seem to be stuck on being offensive with the sbow most of the time.

This is purely for tpvp use.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

You have to consider the damage of your pet. If your pet cant hit anything then you havent L2P the class. Two objects moving in the same direction with a 3 second distance between them will maint this distant unless one is slowed or speed-up.

Not true at all. It is not Ranger that can overcome pet by L2P. Fact is that pet is good when person the ranger is attacking does not L2P vs Ranger pet.

If you have a pet attacking you just run around plain and simple. A Pet can not attack a irregular moving target. Run around a tree and pathing causes the pet to lose distance etc.

Yesterday, I met a ranger in WvW. I was in an ally, alone, trying to recover from a big zerg fight, and I was on the floor, downed. The sad part was, the ranger could not kill me through lick wounds. His damage was simply too low. It was so sad, it hurts. [mainly because I am a ranger myself, too].
When I got up, he ran away.

In my opinion rangers are lacking of few things. Mainly boons, comparing to any other classes we get close to none, and 1-3 stacks of might for 10sec isn’t even close to perma 15 like other classes.
Condition rangers might be lacking of some additional condition, I’d love to see rangers with confussion from their normal 1-5 slots. Tho, I’m not condi ranger myself.
With my build I’d do incredibly much more even with the lowest (but still) regen I could apply myself.
Another thing I’d like to see is maybe shorted cooldown for RaO downed to 90-100seconds.

It’s not like rangers are really really so weak, it depends on player. But comparing to other classes we’re lacking of many things and to be honest we aren’t really the best at something (like supporting allies by boons/healing them, disturbing zergs to let allies run away, our mobility isn’t even close to top ones in game – like d/d ele, mesmer, thief, even warrior, and our burst even with fll burst build is matter to laugh about).

Moddo.7105:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

You have to consider the damage of your pet. If your pet cant hit anything then you havent L2P the class. Two objects moving in the same direction with a 3 second distance between them will maint this distant unless one is slowed or speed-up.

Not true at all. It is not Ranger that can overcome pet by L2P. Fact is that pet is good when person the ranger is attacking does not L2P vs Ranger pet.

If you have a pet attacking you just run around plain and simple. A Pet can not attack a irregular moving target. Run around a tree and pathing causes the pet to lose distance etc.

I wish to god I fight someone who is focused on avoiding my pet. You should be leading them into your pet when they are focused on you.

Yes they can run around a tree or a rock. Players dont deal well with this tactic so yes its effective vs pets.

But this tacic doesnt work so well when your chilled or kd or crippled. Players have leaps and jump on some attack skill which can be an effective way to over come some cc. But again if they are avoiding damage most of the time they arent dealing it.

This is one of the benifits of being a ranger. We can avoid damage and still deal damge with our pets. It’s also why linking pet dodge to the ranger’s is a bad idea
.

A few people have been mentioning the option to cripple/chill/stun/immobilize your opponent in pvp/wvw in order to allow your pet to catch up with them.

Not only are more and more players – particularly in pvp – managing their condition-removal utilities better (which then nullifies this method), but this shouldn’t have to be the case in the first place. Think about it – if you haven’t successfully managed to stun/cripple/chill/immobilize, you will be missing out on between 30 and 40% of your potential damage output simply because your enemy is running around.

Anet have stated that the beauty of this game is that any profession can ‘roll any role’ (I just came up with that – pretty catchy, huh?) but I’m yet to see a ranger roll a decent burst or at least good-damage-output build.

When I PvP on my Ranger I give my opponent’s two options:
(1) Fight the tanky, evasive Ranger that is going to take a while to kill
(2) Turn your back to the Ranger who does extra damage to you when you’re not facing him.

Sucks for them.

My problems are with “obstructed” in a wide open field. My pet not doing what I told it to. My pet having trouble hitting a moving target that is slower than it. Having few good utilities. Having to spend twice as many trait points and major traits for the same thing other classes can get with half that many.

When it comes to Ranger damage, I’ve gone to condition damage because of this:
(1) Ranger damage seems to scale very poorly with power compared to other classes
(2) Ranger condition damage is the same as every other class’s given the same amount of condition damage and Ranger has several good, reliable ways to inflict Bleeding, Burning, and Poison.

I let my pet be the direct damage pressure while my Ranger is the condition damage pressure.

My current train of thought with the Ranger damage is this … we don’t have much burst without sacrificing something else. Instead, we do constant respectable damage. To win a fight we have to avoid the burst of our opponent while maintaining that constant damage.

It’s a different way to play, especially if you come from being a Shatter Mesmer, Warrior, Thief, etc. since they rely on burst. It can also be frustrating since there are plenty of classes that can escape when losing a fight and consistent damage is harder to escape from when losing than burst (because burst just drops you before you can decide to leave).

Summary:
There are bugs with pets that aggravate me.
There are bugs with ranger projectiles that aggravate me.
The lack of variety in playstyle/utilities aggravates me.
Ranger is still playable but you have to work at it.

If condtion removal was so affective there would never be a point to run condtion builds. Few build have more than two. The type of pet you use also come into play.

Bottom line there are a great deal of rangers that run beast master builds. They seem to have over come the problem of pet not hitting. There are builds/playstlyes that have the pet doing majority of the damage.

Buttercup.5871:

Yesterday, I met a ranger in WvW. I was in an ally, alone, trying to recover from a big zerg fight, and I was on the floor, downed. The sad part was, the ranger could not kill me through lick wounds. His damage was simply too low. It was so sad, it hurts. [mainly because I am a ranger myself, too].
When I got up, he ran away.

I can assure you, if I wanted you dead on my ranger through Lick Wounds, you’d be dead.

do not underestimate high power and precision shortbow with sigil of air . The consistent damage is quite awesome .

You’re talking about PvE right? You can do just fine with 20/20 (homed axes)/0/0/30 (Natural Healing) and full berserker with Superior rune of the ranger. Youtube Faelwan’s burst ranger and you’ll find a video where I prove that ranger isn’t as UP as most people think.

If you want to do huge DPS in dungeons don’t use longbow. Listen, I have Bolt and have run over 200 dungeon paths on ranger. I am level 24 FOTM and would be further along if I didn’t grind CoE and CoF so hard for Bolt. Please, trust me: LB IS HORRIBLE in dungeons and probably the worst weapon choice you can make unless you’re fighting the flame shield boss in CoE…that’s fun to rain longbow from the top so you don’t have to run down (plus pets won’t die in the lava!).

From what i’ve read so far most people are complaining that the rnager is UP. He isn’t! The rangers is not for burst damage like the warrior or ele/memser/thief. A ranger does constant damage. You don’t kill a mob within seconds with a big burst, you starve it, so to say.
I’m running a ranger also 30/30/5/5 build with sb/lb. The sb for the sustained damage and the extra evade, and the lb for burst( hunter’s shot + barrage + rapid fire) or when i want to snipe a target from afar. The pet is the tank so to say, he keeps the mob distracted for me while I deal the damage. So don’t complain that the ranger is UP, the ranger requires a bit more tactical play than the other classes. Pick your battles and pick your place were to fight them.
I’m refering here to PvE. i don’t play in PvP or WvW.

My thoughts is that you’re RIGHT. We’re terribly underpowered.
Check this for some solution: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/iR-RANGER-Redesign/first#post1636850
(Working on Traits actualy)

And Pets don’t tank the foes in any cases. They shadowstep in your face.
1vMany, you’ll take all the damages. Pets just die before you could say “What the kitten”.

“Eat my dust!”

As has been said by others, we’re not UP, we maybe need some polish but we’re not UP.

People need to just get it into their heads that we’re not a huge burst class, our damage is consistent rather than burst, either from conditions or lower powered, but fast hitting shots.

Maybe a better way to state it is Ranger is not designed to function well in the general perception of acceptable play or Burst damage is preferred in most aspects of the game.

I’ve just started re-rolling a thief (I wanted an asura rather than a human XD) and wow, I’m critting 3k with heartseeker at level FORTY FIVE. This is ridiculous, I don’t think I’ll be going back to my ranger now. Unless they’re given a power boost, or pets or sorted out, or given stealth skills, they’re a dying profession…

Bryzy.2719:

I’ve just started re-rolling a thief (I wanted an asura rather than a human XD) and wow, I’m critting 3k with heartseeker at level FORTY FIVE. This is ridiculous, I don’t think I’ll be going back to my ranger now. Unless they’re given a power boost, or pets or sorted out, or given stealth skills, they’re a dying profession…

So a) basically you want big numbers and should have rolled thief because you’re not going to get those numbers on a bow or ranged weapon spammed over and over and b) good luck killing a decent ranger with a thief burst spec because you’re fodder to a decent ranger if you’re running a glass cannon spec.

There is only one competitive ranger build, the Trapper build. Everything else is inefficient due to low weapon attacks and messy traits .

Also a solid build is the clerics beastmaster build .

Having said that, there is absolutely no reason to not play a build you like , however ludicrous it might seem . Its about having fun in the end .

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Moddo.7105:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

You have to consider the damage of your pet. If your pet cant hit anything then you havent L2P the class. Two objects moving in the same direction with a 3 second distance between them will maint this distant unless one is slowed or speed-up.

Not true at all. It is not Ranger that can overcome pet by L2P. Fact is that pet is good when person the ranger is attacking does not L2P vs Ranger pet.

If you have a pet attacking you just run around plain and simple. A Pet can not attack a irregular moving target. Run around a tree and pathing causes the pet to lose distance etc.

I wish to god I fight someone who is focused on avoiding my pet. You should be leading them into your pet when they are focused on you.

Yes they can run around a tree or a rock. Players dont deal well with this tactic so yes its effective vs pets.

But this tacic doesnt work so well when your chilled or kd or crippled. Players have leaps and jump on some attack skill which can be an effective way to over come some cc. But again if they are avoiding damage most of the time they arent dealing it.

This is one of the benifits of being a ranger. We can avoid damage and still deal damge with our pets. It’s also why linking pet dodge to the ranger’s is a bad idea
.

As a Ranger who plays multple classes at 80, I can avoid most Ranger pets 60% of the time, or 100% of the time if I apply cripple to them. Don’t fool yourself into thinking it can’t be done just because most players just don’t know how to do it, or don’t bother doing it.

If theyre gonna be sticking with pets being our second half, pets need to be faster without f2 delay and they must have 30% aoe resistance, period. If this alone is done id be pretty happy with my ranger.

jkctmc.8754:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Moddo.7105:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

You have to consider the damage of your pet. If your pet cant hit anything then you havent L2P the class. Two objects moving in the same direction with a 3 second distance between them will maint this distant unless one is slowed or speed-up.

Not true at all. It is not Ranger that can overcome pet by L2P. Fact is that pet is good when person the ranger is attacking does not L2P vs Ranger pet.

If you have a pet attacking you just run around plain and simple. A Pet can not attack a irregular moving target. Run around a tree and pathing causes the pet to lose distance etc.

I wish to god I fight someone who is focused on avoiding my pet. You should be leading them into your pet when they are focused on you.

Yes they can run around a tree or a rock. Players dont deal well with this tactic so yes its effective vs pets.

But this tacic doesnt work so well when your chilled or kd or crippled. Players have leaps and jump on some attack skill which can be an effective way to over come some cc. But again if they are avoiding damage most of the time they arent dealing it.

This is one of the benifits of being a ranger. We can avoid damage and still deal damge with our pets. It’s also why linking pet dodge to the ranger’s is a bad idea
.

As a Ranger who plays multple classes at 80, I can avoid most Ranger pets 60% of the time, or 100% of the time if I apply cripple to them. Don’t fool yourself into thinking it can’t be done just because most players just don’t know how to do it, or don’t bother doing it.

You can avoid bad rangers pets. Because it’s not so easy to do that to a sword ranger locking you down with sword 1, TU pumping out 900 tick heals with a BM quickness boosted pet swap melee range F2 bird attack followed up by Zephyr.

The problem is most rangers want to be 100% range, 100% of the time, whatever the situation.

My tactic and build has never been about moving away from my target worried about what will happen when they are in melee range and trying to keep them out of it, my tactic and build has always been centred around using my shortbow as I close the gap, single evade forward into the target just before they hit melee range, not away, then hitting them with Quick Shot in the back, making them blow cooldowns like stealth or Bullrush and hitting TU and moving to melee, locking them down and unloading a quickness sword and bird burst on them while my TU heals anything they can do back.

Frankly it’s even easier to do with wolves. Given my perma-vigor, sword evades and regen even with 300-400 healing there isn’t a thief that can touch me in 1v1, even the P/D perma-stealthers now I’m running condition removal and runes, plus they’re getting their stealth nerfed soon.

This is of course changes depending on the class, you couldn’t really fight an Elemental that way, but the suggestion that we should just point and shoot our pets and they heatseek lock on our targets has slowly become clear that rightly or wrongly ANet don’t think that’s what we should be doing and I just have to deal with it.

This isn’t to suggest that pets are fine, they are a pain in the kitten and as dumb as a brick, or to suggest that it’s a trivial thing to do to keep your pet on target, or that this will work every time in every fight I have but to suggest that a decent played ranger will just let you run around and around around around away from his pet is silly, given the viability the 1v1 ability of our builds that rely on pets to deal almost all of their damage.

@capu

That is assuming your opponent isn’t curing his conditions, using stunbreaks, and applying cripple to your pet. You guys make it sound like you’re playing against PvE mobs, not players.

People are learning more, and more every day that conditions are a non-issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conditions

Heck, you can run 2 Melandru Runes, and Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup, and reduce durations of conditions by 50%. It’s really easy to build anti-condition builds, if you take the time to research it.

My Meditation Guardian build is so anti-condition (high toughness), that I never really notice conditions anymore. You can do the same thing with many of the other classes.

What do you mean by conditions? I don’t run a condition build, at all, all my damage is power, precision. Do you mean the cripple condition?

Sword 1 applies cripple on every single Kick and if they break that condition Pounce closes the gap from range, buffs pet damage, and cripple is then reapplied. With Zephyr applied, there is no way that’s being broken and not reapplied right away, which we can do over and over on every pet swap.

I run an anti condition build, I’m more than clear on how anti condition builds work, there is no way cripple can be removed faster than a swiftness sword attack can (close the gap if needed) reapply it.

capuchinseven.8395:

What do you mean by conditions? I don’t run a condition build, at all, all my damage is power, precision. Do you mean the cripple condition?

Sword 1 applies cripple on every single Kick and if they break that condition Pounce closes the gap from range, buffs pet damage, and cripple is then reapplied. With Zephyr applied, there is no way that’s being broken and not reapplied right away, which we can do over and over on every pet swap.

I run an anti condition build, I’m more than clear on how anti condition builds work, there is no way cripple can be removed faster than a swiftness sword attack can (close the gap if needed) reapply it.

The Ranger has one of the worst condition removal builds in the game. So no, you do not know. Your cripples are a non-issue to a smart build, and your pet will not hit often.

Watch Xsorus videos on his Thief, He isn’t running a condition removal build, and he rarely gets hit by MULTIPLE pets. See if you can see why. That cripple you’re talking about can also be applied to your pet for its full duration, AND YOU WILL NOT REMOVE IT.

Seriously.

This is how my Guardian deals with Conditions.

— 56% crit chance + Sigil of Purity, and Sigil of Generosity (Both 60% chance on crit.)
— Signet of Resolve + Perfect Inscriptions – Removes two conditions every 10 seconds.
— Inscribed Removal – When forced to heal, my Signet of Resolve removes a condition on the heal.
— Save Yourself – Draw Conditions from my groupmates. Thanks for the extra boons.
— Contemplation of Purity – Convert the conditions you are suffering from into Boons. Hey, it also heals me for 2113 each time I cast it.
— Cleansing Flame – Wait, a Guardian who uses Sword/Torch, say what? For whatever dumb reason, this also removes conditions from the Guardian too.
— 2 Runes of Melandru + Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup reduces your conditions durations by HALF, yes 50%.

Oh no… You put cripple on me again, and entered melee range, what ever will I do.

— Smite Condition (lolz 16 sec recast timer) – Cure a Condition, do damage “in an AE” to the not so smart Ranger who insists on putting Cripple on me. Hey, it also heals me for 2113 each time I cast it.

With a 121 per second regen, 6284 Heal (32sec cd), 2113 Heal (16sec cd), 2113 Heal (48sec cd), dodges that heal me for 676 a dodge roll (how I love that 5 sec Vigor on crit), among other ways of healing myself like mace attack, regen boon, and so on, there is no way a Ranger can kill my Guardian in world vs world. I’m not even sure two can, considering I’ve tanked full groups for five minutes. So forgive me for thinking the Ranger class needs buffs.

The more you insist on applying conditions to me, the more I heal myself, or make myself stronger. Gee thanks. <laughs>

I sometimes slot my Hammer, and troll Rangers by immoblizing their pet for two seconds, Banish the pet (knock them back & down) for two seconds, and drop a Ring of Warding keeping the pet away form me for 5 seconds, watching it figure out what is up. All the while just healing anything the Ranger himself can do, and killing any other player who comes along to help. After awhile, they just leave.

I won’t even get into the power of the other classes I also play.

jkctmc.8754:

The Ranger has one of the worst condition removal builds in the game. So no, you do not know. Your cripples are a non-issue to a smart build, and your pet will not hit often.

You’re right dude, I totally forgot we can only play one class, ever. I’m imagining my Thief, Warrior and Guardian.

Seriously.

jkctmc.8754:

That cripple you’re talking about can also be applied to your pet for its full duration, AND YOU WILL NOT REMOVE IT.

I don’t think you understand Pounce, Kick AND pet swap, it doesn’t matter where in the universe my pet is, I am now in melee range with you and pet swap will bring the pet, buffed with Zephyr and with cleared conditions, right next to me and attacking in melee range with a instant (from Zephyr) bird F2. Who cares if you then cripple the pet? What’s your point? I’ll have to wait for the F2 cooldown anyway and pet swap clears conditions when I do it again.

Your point is a none issue and you’re, for some reason, locked into this cripple issue. Kick/Cripple isn’t the issue. Pounce WILL keep me locked onto you the cripple is totally, 100%, an utter none issue. Pounce will keep me locked on you.

Do you think that I mean the pet then keeps following? The whole point is the initial pet swap Zephyr attack, any follow up hits the bird lands are nothing more than a bonus. The pet swap Zephyr and Pounce are what keeps you on the target.

The more you keep talking about Guardians the more I just think that for some reason you assume that because I talked about ONE tactic then for some reason, that’s the only way I’ll ever attack anyone, whatever their class, whatever the situation.

It’s like you’ve put up this Guardian strawman because they deal with conditions better than anyone else. So that’s your argument? Guardians deal with conditions well and I only have one tactic?

Any thief that stealths, as you raised them as a point (and they always stealth at that point), sees my heels as I Hornet Sting, then Monarchs Leap away, which screws with their time spent in stealth as they close the gap.

What server are you on? Minion Master Necro’s can actually get rid of conditions better than Guardian, FYI.

TC.

I wouldn’t know, I don’t ever really feel the need to close a gap with a Necromancer and I don’t play one.

capuchinseven.8395:

jkctmc.8754:

The Ranger has one of the worst condition removal builds in the game. So no, you do not know. Your cripples are a non-issue to a smart build, and your pet will not hit often.

You’re right dude, I totally forgot we can only play one class, ever. I’m imagining my Thief, Warrior and Guardian.

Seriously.

jkctmc.8754:

That cripple you’re talking about can also be applied to your pet for its full duration, AND YOU WILL NOT REMOVE IT.

I don’t think you understand Pounce, Kick AND pet swap, it doesn’t matter where in the universe my pet is, I am now in melee range with you and pet swap will bring the pet, buffed with Zephyr and with cleared conditions, right next to me and attacking in melee range with a instant (from Zephyr) bird F2. Who cares if you then cripple the pet? What’s your point? I’ll have to wait for the F2 cooldown anyway and pet swap clears conditions when I do it again.

Your point is a none issue and you’re, for some reason, locked into this cripple issue. Kick/Cripple isn’t the issue. Pounce WILL keep me locked onto you the cripple is totally, 100%, an utter none issue. Pounce will keep me locked on you.

Do you think that I mean the pet then keeps following? The whole point is the initial pet swap Zephyr attack, any follow up hits the bird lands are nothing more than a bonus. The pet swap Zephyr and Pounce are what keeps you on the target.

The more you keep talking about Guardians the more I just think that for some reason you assume that because I talked about ONE tactic then for some reason, that’s the only way I’ll ever attack anyone, whatever their class, whatever the situation.

It’s like you’ve put up this Guardian strawman because they deal with conditions better than anyone else. So that’s your argument? Guardians deal with conditions well and I only have one tactic?

Any thief that stealths, as you raised them as a point (and they always stealth at that point), sees my heels as I Hornet Sting, then Monarchs Leap away, which screws with their time spent in stealth as they close the gap.

We were not talking about you, we were talking about the pet. <face meets palm>

jkctmc.8754:

We were not talking about you, we were talking about the pet. <face meets palm>

Okay, I think it’s pretty clear how you like to argue and how you like to make your points.

So once again.

Firstly, your above point is a total straw man, again. Our pets do not deal 100% of our damage and any damage they do is to supplement our damage. Any damage my pet does is meant to be dealt at the same time as me and any time my pet lands burst it’s at the same time as me.

Secondly, once again. If I land a hit on you with sword 1, I am now locked on to you. I could take my hands off the keyboard and Pounce will keep me locked onto you, baring something like stealth or a well timed evade.

When locked onto you, in less than a second, I press F4 and then F2 my bird will instantly swap, we’re both now buffed with pet swap Zephyr, it will instantly without any delay, cleared of all conditions and teleported right next to your side, land that 4k and more F2 burst hit along with the Zephyr’d attacks from Sword 1, one of our hardest hitting weapon attacks.

I did not say this was the only way to ever attack anyone, ever. I did not say it will drop you in a single hit, I did not say it was an instant I win button, I did not say pets do not have big issues, I did not say I don’t find pets to be an annoyance.

I said, you can make your pet hit the target when you want to and that you can’t avoid my pet for 100% of the fight, and this is one way of doing it.

All thieves can get rid of conditions easy, cause almost all of them take 30 shadow arts because it not only removes conditions every 3 seconds in stealth (so if you wait the 4 seconds in stealth, it’ll remove 2 conditions every time you do it) It also heals for more then a Ranger in a full Healing Power Set automatically without the investment in a signet or in gear.

Xsorus.2507:

All thieves can get rid of conditions easy, cause almost all of them take 30 shadow arts because it not only removes conditions every 3 seconds in stealth (so if you wait the 4 seconds in stealth, it’ll remove 2 conditions every time you do it) It also heals for more then a Ranger in a full Healing Power Set automatically without the investment in a signet or in gear.

Yep … Shadow’s Rejuvenation is 293 hp per sec while stealthed. Granted, it’s a 30 point trait so it should be good … but then take a look at Ranger’s stuff:

• 30 pt trait, Natural Healing : 125 per second for pet, 133 every 2 seconds for player. (player alone gets less than 25% of what the thief gets)
• Utility, Signet of the Wild : 62 per second for pet, 125 per second for the player

So let’s look at this combined.

• If a thief takes a 30 pt trait, they get 293 hp per sec while stealthed (which that build spends 50+%).
• If a ranger only takes a 30 pt trait, they get 66.5 hp per sec (133/2)
• If a ranger only takes a utility, they get 125 per sec
• If a ranger takes a 30pt trait and a utility they get 191.5 hp per sec ((133/2) + 125)

Granted, the thief has to stealth to gain theirs, but stealth comes with several other benefits for Thieves and is a decent portion of their gameplay. Does it really warrant them getting twice as much as a ranger who invests the same number of trait points AND 1/3 of their utility slots?

Now, before anyone tells me “but Ranger gets tons of evasion!” …

• Not on all weapons
• So does thief … and look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ofdu0ltKmTk

I believe thieves will be spending a lot more time out of stealth come the 26th. Theyre losing 2 secs of culling upon each unstealth (huge nerf), and they will no longer be able to zerg surf with cnd. Thats all I felt thieves needed, as I can already dispatch most skilled ones with a bit of effort.

Radamanth.9048:

compared to mesmers, thieves, d/d eles, and guardians they are up.

compared to the rest they arent.

compared to what? i spent last night toying with a thief for 20 minutes before i actually bothered to kill him…. what’s the thief doing? stealth, stealth, stealth, backstab… and 20 minutes later, he still cant kill ONE RANGER…..

same with a D/D Ele…. chased me for 5 minutes just to be unable to kill me, or me him kitten they got lots of evades)….

2 mesmers vs one crit shortbow and entagle – both dead…

Rangers are good, really good, however the learning curve is like climbing everest… at first its easy, then it’s tough, then it’s easy, and when you think you got it, you come face to face with a huge wall, and once you get over it, you can pretty much kill anything within the range of your bow…

oh, and one more thing… QZ + GS #1 = 4 second “invulnerability”…. because you spin so fast around you almost always get the evade on the right time….

Not sure why people jumped on conditions. My damage isn’t condition damage and the reason sword 1 locks on isn’t because of a cripple condition, it’s the leap from Pounce.

The point is that the lock on and pet swap QZ allow rangers to land an instant 5k F2 hit pet burst. And no, no amount of cripple on your pet is going to make a difference to you or your pet when you’re in melee range and you pet swap, which was the whole point, ignored and straw maned over conditions to make it easier to argue back.

It’s just one tactic to help you land pet burst. Pointing and shooting, intended by ANet or not, is not the way to handle your pet.

Sebrent.3625:

Xsorus.2507:

All thieves can get rid of conditions easy, cause almost all of them take 30 shadow arts because it not only removes conditions every 3 seconds in stealth (so if you wait the 4 seconds in stealth, it’ll remove 2 conditions every time you do it) It also heals for more then a Ranger in a full Healing Power Set automatically without the investment in a signet or in gear.

Yep … Shadow’s Rejuvenation is 293 hp per sec while stealthed. Granted, it’s a 30 point trait so it should be good … but then take a look at Ranger’s stuff:

• 30 pt trait, Natural Healing : 125 per second for pet, 133 every 2 seconds for player. (player alone gets less than 25% of what the thief gets)
• Utility, Signet of the Wild : 62 per second for pet, 125 per second for the player

So let’s look at this combined.

• If a thief takes a 30 pt trait, they get 293 hp per sec while stealthed (which that build spends 50+%).
• If a ranger only takes a 30 pt trait, they get 66.5 hp per sec (133/2)
• If a ranger only takes a utility, they get 125 per sec
• If a ranger takes a 30pt trait and a utility they get 191.5 hp per sec ((133/2) + 125)

Granted, the thief has to stealth to gain theirs, but stealth comes with several other benefits for Thieves and is a decent portion of their gameplay. Does it really warrant them getting twice as much as a ranger who invests the same number of trait points AND 1/3 of their utility slots?

Now, before anyone tells me “but Ranger gets tons of evasion!” …

• Not on all weapons
• So does thief … and look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ofdu0ltKmTk

My personal favorite is the 5 Seconds of Regen they get every time they stealth..

I abuse it with my healing power thief, I have only 800 hp with the gear right now, but i’m doing over 600 HPS while in stealth..