Guild Wars 2

Hey Rangers,
I’m having a hard time finding anything useful in these forums for what I am asking. I’m posting in the Thief forum about this same thing.
I’m just curious as to how a Ranger fares for dungeons?
And I have no particular role in mind and I dont know what their forte might be in dungeons, but I dont mind playing support at all, because I know not enough people do it.
But I’m torn between the two classes and I really have no interest as of yet in Pvp/WvW…and finding thief dungeon stuff I’ve had no luck yet either. So I’m basically asking for some info/thoughts and advice from some experienced Rangers about dungeon pros or cons concerning the Ranger class. Thanks in advance

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

2) Solid DPS.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

My friend is a level 80 thief and says she finds it difficult in dungeons because of the limited range. Range is so important in this game, it feels better than heavy armor in some encounters.

The Thief is a very sexy class, so don’t take this as a diss on Thieves. Their dps and movement is incredible.

Go with your gut. Go to Heart of Mist and try out both classes at 80 on the target dummies, or if you want in PVP. Just remember that some of your support abilities’ usefulness won’t be apparent attacking target dummies, like the spirits.

I found thief much easier to play in AC Exp then Ranger (leveled both of them in AC). I found taking a ranged pet helped a lot, but ultimately it comes down to you as a player. I didn’t have much trouble with either, but thief was easier.

Thanks a ton, guys. I appreciate the detailed advice. That info helps a lot. I’m a little intimidated with the pet control, as I’ve read how important it is to watch and control your pet, but I’ve also read that with time, it can just kinda become a part of your rotation, so to speak. I appreciate the help fellas

I’m finding it good in dungeons. Being able to pull from extreme distance is nice . Has a few issues in AC, I haven’t really found a way to take burrows down fast, My Thief and Warrior do this job so much better.

I’ve got both an 80 thief and 80 ranger, but right now I am having soooo much more fun with my ranger.

My ranger is purely a dodge/tanky set up, with the GS and S/D for weapons and two bears as pets. I find that other animals tend to die often in dungeons, despite my best efforts to swap them on cooldown for the quickness buff from the Beastmastery traits. If I or my allies are in need of some health, I lay down a Healing Spring to give them a small direct boost, regen, cure conditions on my friends, and have the Water combo field. I can use the GS and sword’s leap skills to add an AoE heal to my attacks, helping keep myself and other melee partners alive just that little bit longer.

My thief is a burst build (D/D), though its traits are defensive in nature. She jumps out of melee combat to stay alive, then stealths back in to deliver a hard backstab to the spine. Thanks to a couple traits (dodging returns 50% endurance used / healing skills grant vigor), I often feel like I have endless dodge capabilities, if for a few seconds.

A few people say that AoE stealth is great for speed running dungeons, but I generally enjoy fighting everything en route to the boss. I can’t discount stealth’s usefulness, though – if a teammate gets downed in a big melee, dropping a Shadow Refuge over them keeps them hidden from everything but AoE attacks and cleaves, while letting you revive them in complete safety. Shadow Refuge can reset a dungeon boss if everyone enters it, but the only cases I’ve seen that happen is where it’s been necessary to do so in order to revive dead allies and get to safety.

Ultimately I’d suggest you try both the thief and ranger out for yourself, and see which you like more. I can tell you all the awesome things about being one class or the other, but you might find fun in something I didn’t see or found to be trivial!

Good luck, and maybe I’ll see you in the World of – err, Guild Wars 2!

I’ve run a ranger (Sylvari ranger; my main) in dungeons constantly and with little issue. My thief, however, rarely enters dungeons. Rangers are a bit sturdier, even with glass cannon builds. And with only 5 points in Wilderness Survival your endurance regen is increased by 50%.

Thieves may deal more damage, but are far squishier and you don’t have much leeway for mistakes. A ranger can normally overcome a mistake or three. Thieves often go down on the first mistake.

Both thieves and rangers are underperformers in dungeons. If played by the average guy, i feel thief is MUCH worse, and gets better then the ranger if played well (aka not falling on their butt every 10 seconds).

Team-utility wise unfortunatly ranger is one of the worst classes. We have a good water field, a good buff on warhorn, and S&R – aaand thats it, everything else, like spirits is subpar when compared to similar team utilities from other classes (like warrior flags).
Thief has stealth, which can be a pretty big deal when ressing, dropping aggro, skipping mobs in farm runs etc, and perma-blindness.

The big problem for the rangers is the pet thou – in many dungeons you’ll have to keep it to peaceful most of the time (unless you wanna be a liability to the team), in others unless you build BM, it will be oneshotted from bosses with very little you can do, no matter how good you are….and it even gets worse in fractals, where agony oneshots even a 30 BM pet, unless you have the switch off cooldown – which at some point wont happen, forcing you to play for 60+ seconds with half your traits and dps.

Another big issue for the rangers is that most end-game “hard” dungeons are designed in such a way that the only thing that counts is dps, making rangers a sub par choice, due to their low damage output – caused by the fact that our damage output is split (and balanced around having both you and the pet hitting), only that equip, stats, runes, sigils DO NOT scale and affect the pet.
You can circumvent that restrictions in pvp by going tank/condition damage (because you get 100% out of those stats) but that does not work in pve (mostly cause how broken is CE in pve and bosses being large meat HP bags with one shots you gotta dodge, tank or not tank)

Now, dont get me wrong, i love my ranger (and its the only char i’ve got in full ascended and t3 armor, with 580 hours), but i always feel the “special guy” in dungeons, compared to when i’m playng guardian or warrior, having to work twice as much to accomplish half of what a 5 signet warrior can do playing with one hand :\

So, short answer: if you want to mostly run dungeons (and im not talking about AC , cof p1 or other afk-farm content) neither ranger nor thief are OPTIMAL choices. If you dont care about that, just run what you enjoy more.

Really, really appreciate the in-depth advice, guys. Thank you so much. And I think the responses answered the root of my concerns, which I don’t know if I expressed it right, about basically the 2 professions “viability/support/role” in dungeons. Thanks again, guys

I like my ranger in instances, I wish my dps was a bit higher although I do not die any where like I did when on my theif.

I like to use the moa pet with the damage reduction. It and the healing provided by the bird is a nice bonus to the group.

I have how ever not ran many instances at all.

Rangers are highly survivable, can do decent damage, and apply many damaging conditions. Even in dungeons.

They are not as easy to play as a warrior or a guardian. But honestly, what is?

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

2) Solid DPS.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

1) The only thing we’ve got going for us.

2) No. Just no. Compare to any warrior or thief or mesmer or ele that is equally geared.

3) Clunky, stupid, weak pets that delay up to six seconds before even performing an ability attack. Not smart enough to avoid enemy attacks and too weak to survive even the most mediocre AoE.

4) Penalized for being forced up close by terrain and obstructed, range no longer matters with stupid class mechanics and underpowered weapons.

Yeah, I hate to be a debbie downer, but there’s optimism and then there’s lack of realism.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

2) Solid DPS.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

1) The only thing we’ve got going for us.

2) No. Just no. Compare to any warrior or thief or mesmer or ele that is equally geared.

3) Clunky, stupid, weak pets that delay up to six seconds before even performing an ability attack. Not smart enough to avoid enemy attacks and too weak to survive even the most mediocre AoE.

4) Penalized for being forced up close by terrain and obstructed, range no longer matters with stupid class mechanics and underpowered weapons.

Yeah, I hate to be a debbie downer, but there’s optimism and then there’s lack of realism.

1) Search and Rescue is now even more valuable since the change to prevent combat rezzing at waypoints. When you also consider Quickening Zephyr, we’re one of the best rezzers that you can bring to a dungeon. Rangers can also give solid crowd control with a lot of abilities. For example, I run with a short bow and a longbow for a swap. Point Blank shot allows you to easily knock back several enemies into the same spot (with piercing arrows of course) that allows you and your teammates to make effective use of AoE while saving a squishy teammate from taking damage. It also gives AoE dps with a cripple on the 5 ability.

2) Ranger dps is fine. It’s not beastly, but it’s solid.

3) You’re not doing it right if you’re having this issue. Pets are tough to manage well and there are some situations where they are still at a disadvantage, but by in large, they are a very unique advantage to rangers. For example, I tend to bring a wolf as one of my main pets since it brings relatively strong dps with its normal abilities, has enough toughness to stay alive in most fights, and also provides utility through knockdowns, cripples, and fear. Fear is a big one too since it’s one of the few control abilities that works on bosses.

4) Terrain keeps the longbow from really shining as a dps weapon, but it’s really not a big deal. Your opinion on this seems more like anecdotal frustration than any solid logical argument.

Aegis.9724:

Team-utility wise unfortunatly ranger is one of the worst classes. We have a good water field, a good buff on warhorn, and S&R – aaand thats it, everything else, like spirits is subpar when compared to similar team utilities from other classes (like warrior flags).

I see no mention of traps. Traps can help quite a bit if specced for them. Throw down a Flame Trap to help the melee fighters get some combos and more damage going (along with everybody else), a Spike Trap to keep the annoying bosses stuck in place for a bit, and a Frost Trap to slow them and their attacks down a bit (while giving another combo field).

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

2) Solid DPS.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

1) The only thing we’ve got going for us.

2) No. Just no. Compare to any warrior or thief or mesmer or ele that is equally geared.

3) Clunky, stupid, weak pets that delay up to six seconds before even performing an ability attack. Not smart enough to avoid enemy attacks and too weak to survive even the most mediocre AoE.

4) Penalized for being forced up close by terrain and obstructed, range no longer matters with stupid class mechanics and underpowered weapons.

Yeah, I hate to be a debbie downer, but there’s optimism and then there’s lack of realism.

Trying to compare anything to a thief, warrior, or ele that isn’t a thief, warrior, or ele, is not going to make the cut. They’re the best classes out there right now, no contest. Rangers are not known for blowing through things like a glass cannon, even when they’re specced for it.

We deal solid DPS because it’s always consistent. As an example, a D/D thief is not going to have good DPS – it’s just there to run around the fight and backstab people whenever the Revealed debuff isn’t on him/her.

I’ll admit, our pets are weak and the AI is lackluster. But they’re supposed to be run by us, the master/player. I’ll never run a bird in any type of combat, because they die too fast. But I have to agree with the above poster. I find wolves/drakes to be fairly survivable (as they have similar if not the same stats), but the bears really shine when it comes to surviving. So in PvE, I run bears. Not the most effective damage, I know, but it guarantees that I’ll always be able to get the quickness off of swapping them.

If you have a problem about pets reacting slowly when swapping, then I recommend you run a melee build. My pets have no trouble acquiring a target when I am smashing that guy’s face in with the broad side of my greatsword. I can quickly get a pet’s F2 to activate right off the swap because their reactions are so much faster in melee than at a range.

I can’t argue the longbow. I find it to be lackluster in damage and utility and I strongly prefer melee combat over ranged to begin with. Easier to get those Healing Springs down on my melee buddies.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

1) The only thing we’ve got going for us.

2) No. Just no. Compare to any warrior or thief or mesmer or ele that is equally geared.

3) Clunky, stupid, weak pets that delay up to six seconds before even performing an ability attack. Not smart enough to avoid enemy attacks and too weak to survive even the most mediocre AoE.

4) Penalized for being forced up close by terrain and obstructed, range no longer matters with stupid class mechanics and underpowered weapons.

Yeah, I hate to be a debbie downer, but there’s optimism and then there’s lack of realism.

1 – False. Signet of Renewal is a boon to the entire team. Full team condition clear.
2 – Solid DPS? Yes. Comparable to warrior or ele sustained or thief spike damage? No, but nothing is. Please stop comparing a constant damage profession directly against the best professions for max DPS or spike.
3 – Pet AI does require a lot of work, yes. But that does not make all pets useless. Outside of some bosses, mostly the ones that spam AoE, pets can be a great boon if micro’d properly.
4 – I run my ranger as SB/LB most of the time. Outside of a few things (like graveling burrows), I have little to no problem hitting my targets. And the SB is actually a pretty powerful weapon if you consider the good base damage and great bleeds.

If you are trying to compare the ranger to the warrior for DPS and the thief for spike damage, of course the ranger will look like crap. If you look at the ranger as a whole and see what it can do, you will find it to be a very competent profession.

I have ranger, but i also have mesmer and guard and I would pick those 2 before my ranger for effectivness in PVE.

If you really want pve You need a 2hand sword(mabe axe not tried)
Bows doesnt cut it when its more than 1 mob, melee weapons cleave thats alot of extra damage..

Wvw, I really like the ranger though.. traps and blinding roots rocks.

khadorian.6417:

If you really want pve You need a 2hand sword(mabe axe not tried)
Bows doesnt cut it when its more than 1 mob, melee weapons cleave thats alot of extra damage.

If you run the piercing arrows trait, then bows can hit far more than one target. Nothing pleases me more than hitting 5+ enemies (and applying bleeds) simultaneously with my shortbow.

The only dungeon in this game that requires a stack of dps is Arah P4. Every other dungeon can be done with any class makeup. Usually people that discriminate on a class are people who themselves kinda suck and need to be carried or are lazy and want others to do their workload.

Get a Warrior or Guardian for Dungeons.
How often do people have to say it?

I am having no problems in dungeons. I read they have a bad rap, but I dont see why, I have never been kicked, or complained at with any party.

I run a Axe/Torch build using Precision/Toughness/Condition Damage. I use Healing Spring to heal, as well as dual drake pets. I prefer River and Marsh, as their F2 skills are the most superior. However, a Reef Drake does have benefits as well.

I rarely go down, and if we do wipe I am typically the last one standing. Every bounce with axes has its own chance to proc, and with high precision I am getting crits quite often. So I am keeping decent stacks of bleed on them, and I always have a fire skill up to keep them dots going.

Drakes tail whip will combine with your water, fire, or any other aoes on the ground. I keep the speed and regen signets on myself. my active skill is sharpening stone just to add extra bleed damage with bouncing axes.

Not to mention when you are traited into Toughness you get a lot of Endurance so dodging is never much of a problem.

I am sure there are other builds, but I am a mean aoe machine all the way around. AoE auto attacks, AoE dots, AoE pets, AoE healing… I am well accepted in dungeons.

Oh yeah one last thing: I have Entangle as my ultimate. Its amazing in dungeons. If the monsters are already focused on someone, they will not attack the roots. One of my favorite things is to pull them all into a corner and root them down lol. Its also great for tagging mobs in large events too, as well as WvW zergs. I got 40 badges of honor the other night from one big battle.

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

Rangers are terrible in dungeons. Play any other class to 80 if you haven’t. They bring least of all classes to the team. Their damage is mediocre at best. Their support is a joke. And survivability is non-existent. You will waste all your time baby-sitting the pet for very marginal return, while other classes will do more and will less effort.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

The only thing it is good for is blast finishers (which ranger doesn’t have). Other than that it pretty weak skill. My guardian does more healing with it from finisher that the actual skill, and I can spam it every 4 seconds.

2) Solid DPS.

more like OK DPS. More specifically OK single target DPS that needs to be built up with conditions. Even with piercing arrows it doesn’t come close to guardian/warrior simply cleaving through 5 mobs with zero effort. In a typical trash mob encounter my support specced guardian does more DPS than my DPS specced ranger… which is probably about half the damage a warrior or a thief can do.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

Thats a definition of a disposable pet. Necro pets are disposable. Ranger pets take a full minute to reset.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

eh what? I hope you joking. In fact to do a respectable DPS you have to be up close to have all of your projectiles from poison volley or splitblade to hit.

Sorry Antonello, you’re going to get one from me lol:

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

No doubt a useful skill for condition removal.

2) Solid DPS.

To those who agree with this, you are saying it is ‘solid, sustainable DPS’. Yeah, it’s sustainble, alright. Sustainably low. Seriously go try another class and do some tests on dummies in Heart of the Mists. Then come back here and cry.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

LOL “If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job.” <—- Yeah no, lol. It will have done its job if it is responsive, has decent AI to step away from AoEs, hits moving targets more efficiently and doesn’t agro the entire world.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

What good is range if we are presented with a plethora of issues with our short bow and long bow? Oh no wait, we’ll use axes. But it has a shorter range requirement.. and the 5 axe bleeding thingo requires you to be close for the full effect………

TL;DR: Your argument in invalid. I’m open to being proven wrong, in fact I’m hoping one of you will prove me wrong but so far all of you who are FOR rangers are coming up with arguments that have no basis.

Using rampager gear, some traps,abusing Zephyr’s Speed and most importantly high dps pets like the jaguar you can do some very respectable damage, if your pet is alive.
And most of the time that’s a pretty big if.

Besides the pet beeing inresponsive and not rushing to you straight away when you call it back sometimes, it’s like some encounters were specifically made to kitten of rangers.
Like Kholer, if you miss your petswap right as the pet gets pulled, there, bam, gone.
Your dps is crap for the rest of the fight.
Wouldn’t sting so much if signet of stone didn’t have a wooping 2min cd…

That said, i ussually do enjoy my ranger in dungeons.
While leveling, beeing concious is entierly optional when playing a ranger but in dungeons it can be quite challinging if you wanto make the most of the class.
Sure you can go longbow/axe+whatever and some bear or red moa pet, hang back and still somewhat contribute to the group(specially if your group needs control, we so many snares and roots it’s insane), but i need to make way more of an effort than on my warrior or ele to get simillar results.

Ok. This needs a proper rebuttal. Here we go:

Trollhammer.7439:

antonello.8592:

Rangers are very useful in dungeons.

Rangers are terrible in dungeons. Play any other class to 80 if you haven’t. They bring least of all classes to the team. Their damage is mediocre at best. Their support is a joke. And survivability is non-existent. You will waste all your time baby-sitting the pet for very marginal return, while other classes will do more and will less effort.

Rangers can be great in dungeons. Damage is solid, but not incredible. Support isn’t much, but rangers are built for damage, not support. And survivability is incredible. A good ranger will practically never go down in dungeons.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

The only thing it is good for is blast finishers (which ranger doesn’t have). Other than that it pretty weak skill. My guardian does more healing with it from finisher that the actual skill, and I can spam it every 4 seconds.

Healing Spring, IMHO, is the most incredible heal skill in the game (referring, of course, only to skills in slot 6). It is a powerful heal, applies regen and cure on each pulse, and is a water field that lasts for 15 seconds. And if you have it traited, it also applies 3 seconds of vigor per pulse. It is also the longest lasting water field by 100%.

It is good that your guardian can utilize this field, but without the ranger there there would be no field to utilize.

2) Solid DPS.

more like OK DPS. More specifically OK single target DPS that needs to be built up with conditions. Even with piercing arrows it doesn’t come close to guardian/warrior simply cleaving through 5 mobs with zero effort. In a typical trash mob encounter my support specced guardian does more DPS than my DPS specced ranger… which is probably about half the damage a warrior or a thief can do.

No. Rangers can output solid DPS. I am not saying they are on par with warrior DPS, but nothing in the game is! Rangers can reliably output good DPS and good conditions if they are geared for it.

3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.

Thats a definition of a disposable pet. Necro pets are disposable. Ranger pets take a full minute to reset.

Only if the ranger does not switch pets at the last second, which you can do. Ranger pets have many issues, yes. Noone is arguing against that. But micro-managed properly, pets can still be a boon.

4) Range! Very important in PVE

eh what? I hope you joking. In fact to do a respectable DPS you have to be up close to have all of your projectiles from poison volley or splitblade to hit.

You do not need to be in close melee with a ranger to do good damage. And if you are speaking of condition rangers with a shortbow, all that matters is flanking. Not range.

Before you say that I should play another class, I have a level 80 guardian, ele, thief, and necro in addition to my level 80 ranger main. I still find ranger to be more powerful in dungeons than you (and most, honestly) give them credit for.

Trollhammer.7439:

antonello.8592:

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

1) Healing Spring. Enough said. Solid healing, but unlike the Engi’s turret it’s invincible.

The only thing it is good for is blast finishers (which ranger doesn’t have).

Please, do some research before spouting crap like this. Drakes are one of our best pets for dungeons because they bring strong survival stats, good single target dps, strong AoE dps AND a blast finisher.

Rislo.6293:

Hey Rangers,
I’m having a hard time finding anything useful in these forums for what I am asking. I’m posting in the Thief forum about this same thing.
I’m just curious as to how a Ranger fares for dungeons?
And I have no particular role in mind and I dont know what their forte might be in dungeons, but I dont mind playing support at all, because I know not enough people do it.
But I’m torn between the two classes and I really have no interest as of yet in Pvp/WvW…and finding thief dungeon stuff I’ve had no luck yet either. So I’m basically asking for some info/thoughts and advice from some experienced Rangers about dungeon pros or cons concerning the Ranger class. Thanks in advance

I’d say it largely depends on your build. A BM ranger doesn’t do as well in dungeons because your pet is either dying, or constantly yo-yoing in and out as you try to keep it alive, so it’s losing a ton of dps. A support ranger is useful with Healing Spring, pet AoE buffs, Warhorn buff, etc. Maybe not as useful as other support classes, but still useful. Trap builds are IMO very good in dungeons and perhaps underrated here, you can damage multiple trash mobs, keep up consistent condition damage on bosses, and you can drop three different combo fields with low cooldowns (water, fire, ice). Power/Crit builds are tough to keep alive but they give you good DPS output. You do have the tools to stay alive (invulnerability from Protect Me and traited Signet of Stone, 50% extra endurance regen with 5 points in Wilderness Survival, evades from weapon skills and lightning reflexes), but it takes a bit of experience and skill to pull this build off in the tougher dungeons.

@SynfulChaot.3169
You kinda just repeated what I said, but tried to dress it as a good thing. I am sorry, but the facts are clear.
1) Ranger is a DPS class that isn’t even close to being good at DPS.
2) Ranger group support is a joke compared to guardian or ele. Admittedly entangling roots is a good skill, but it is just one skill.
What else is to say here? You other toons are not as good? I think you are not as good at them. My main was also a ranger, but I have enough critical thinking ability to realize that it was never as useful in end-game content.
Rangers are bad bro, really really bad. Rangers are jacks of no trades. No niche, no specialization. There is nothing you can pick and say “hey I do this better than other classes”. Not to mention their primary mechanic is poorly designed and will always drag even good players down to its kitten level.

@Dahkeus.8243
I knew someone would bring up drakes, and I shake my head in resignation… You can keep telling yourself that you are doing a good job, but don’t cry when people don’t want you in their groups. Pets are terrible, and drakes are especially bad, sluggish and paper thin. To rely on drake blast finisher is like relying on a precursor drop. But hf carefully orchestrating something that other classes can just do naturally, if that is what tickles your fancy.

I suggest never looking at these forums for advice on ranger, but if you really want advice… spec into your pet rather than your ranged, some people do things like 20/20/0/0/30 (bow dmg + pet) 0/25/15/0/30 (pet protection) or 0/20/20/30 or 0/30/20/0/20 etc etc.. lots of variations to fit your playstyle.

If you know how to manage your pet you’ll easily be much stronger. None of our ranged sets can even be compared to the dmg of pistol thief at the moment. Unload easily beats rapid fire + it can be spammed… and shortbow isn’t much to talk about.

Also
“3) Pets. Useful in support or to distract a boss. If he just soaks up a few hits that your Warrior or Guardian doesn’t have to take, he’s done his job. Also each pet has various special abilities that can be used in support or in attack.”

^ Is what people with useless bears in dungeons think. Your pet’s job is to do dmg, not to soak up dmg, they wouldn’t give rangers dmg equal to other classes + a pet, just think about it. Use a cat or a bird, birds have more vitality and the same precision as cats but cats are a better source of conditions on top of raw dmg for pve.

Trollhammer.7439:

@Dahkeus.8243
I knew someone would bring up drakes, and I shake my head in resignation… You can keep telling yourself that you are doing a good job, but don’t cry when people don’t want you in their groups. Pets are terrible, and drakes are especially bad, sluggish and paper thin. To rely on drake blast finisher is like relying on a precursor drop. But hf carefully orchestrating something that other classes can just do naturally, if that is what tickles your fancy.

Never been denied from my group and the drake works just fine. I can give you some tips on how to keep your pet alive if you want, but…I doubt you’re here trying to learn anything, lol.

Trollhammer.7439:

@SynfulChaot.3169
You kinda just repeated what I said, but tried to dress it as a good thing. I am sorry, but the facts are clear.
1) Ranger is a DPS class that isn’t even close to being good at DPS.
2) Ranger group support is a joke compared to guardian or ele. Admittedly entangling roots is a good skill, but it is just one skill.
What else is to say here? You other toons are not as good? I think you are not as good at them. My main was also a ranger, but I have enough critical thinking ability to realize that it was never as useful in end-game content.
Rangers are bad bro, really really bad. Rangers are jacks of no trades. No niche, no specialization. There is nothing you can pick and say “hey I do this better than other classes”. Not to mention their primary mechanic is poorly designed and will always drag even good players down to its kitten level.

1 – Ranger is a DPS class that is good at DPS if specced correctly. Not incredible at it, but still good. Please stop comparing ranger to warrior. Everything pales in comparison to warrior. That is not a fault of other classes being weak. That is due to warrior being OP.
2 – Ranger group support is not a joke. They have two great support skills in Healing Spring (best heal in the game, IMHO) and Signet of Renewal (full party condition cleanse anyone?). No, they don’t have a lot more than that, but rangers are not designed as support. I cannot stress that enough. Don’t expect them to run support as that is not their role.

I have completed all late game content (with the exception of Arah path 4) with my ranger without issue and without the party carrying me. No, rangers do not do things better than the other classes. Neither do engineers or necromancers. That does not mean the classes are weak and should not be played. It means that some classes are overpowered compared to the other and that all classes need to become more balanced.

This change will come over time. Please don’t drive people away from a perfectly good class just because you feel it is not worth your time.

To the OP – now you have two great sides of the argument and now you can make up your own mind lol. Meanwhile the rest of us will have to agree to disagree.

I do wholeheartedly agree with Trollhammer.7439 in saying that anything that we can do, another class can do better and more efficiently.

On the contrary I agree with the pro-rangers that we need to stop comparing ourselves to warriors, after all, if you wanted everything the warrior offered then the obvious solution is to roll a warrior – but that’s hardly the point here.

Here’s the run down :

• Your pet will be dead a lot in Fractals, which is the “top dungeon” right now because of Ascended Gear. Your pet shouldn’t have too hard of a time surviving in EXP Dungeons if you’re good about controlling/swapping them (this isn’t always the case though, some mechanics just screw you over no matter what). However, in Fractals, your pet is dead almost 100% of the time. There’s no saving it, either.
• Ranger’s, in theory, would be a good “Support” class if they could actually use their Spirits (not as suicide bombers). They’re dead in a single hit, a single sneeze, a single hiccup. So, Supporting as a Ranger is out of the question as far as I know. (FOR THE RECORD, when I say “Supporting” I mean like a Guardian or Elementalist. You just can’t.)
• They have pretty good DPS. They’re not the best though and they’re on the “lower side” between all of the Professions (and in my opinion, NOT the lowest in PVE). Their DPS is only “pretty good” when their Pet is alive (hence why this can be a less desirable class to have in Fractals). Compared to a Greatsword Warrior, your DPS is laughable at best, BUT this goes for all of the Professions. Greatsword Warrior’s are just the God’s of PVE right now, especially when teamed with a Mesmer.
• You have good utilities that will help “support” your team, such as your Elite Nature of Spirit. I’ve saved many lives in Fractals when I correctly use this Elite. It’s a beautiful Elite in Dungeons, for sure. Your “Healing Spring” is also a very good 15 second Water field / condition removal / potential vigor supplier. These are your highlighting points.
• A lot of players “dislike” Rangers, their problems are widely known so you won’t be the “top pick” on the List of Professions unless you’re a Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer or Elementalist. Be prepared to be turned down or overlooked because of your class if you’re in competition with other Professions (but this doesn’t always happen, though I have heard of it being an issue).

I’ve leveled a Thief. I’ve PVE’d with both a Ranger and a Thief to Level 25+ Fractals. This is how I feel about it :

• Thief is by far the better DPS. They also have the better and more dependable Resurrection skill (Shadow Refuge).
• Ranger’s have the better Downed skills
• Ranger’s have the better “unique Resurrection” – Your “Search and Rescue” can resurect people in Lava and other awkward-hard-to-reach places. However, Search and Rescue doesn’t always work. It’s buggy and fickle. Not to mention it won’t work when your Pet is dead, which is why it’s also unreliable.
• Ranger is the easier of the two classes. I have a better time surviving and being out of harm’s way on my Ranger than I do on my Thief.
• Thief is squishier than a Ranger
• Ranger has better “long ranged” options (in my opinion) if you spec for 1500 range, you can out range most boss mechanics.
• Ranger has better single target damage with their Bows
• Thieves have better single target damage with their Melee
• Thieves have better AOE damage with their Short bow
• Rangers still have very good AOE damage with their Traps / Longbow #5 / Piercing Arrows
• Thieves do not have to deal with a terrible Pet AI / The frustrations of dealing with a Dead Pet and having it gimp their overall DPS.

So, even though I hate how “gimped” my Ranger is because of our lackluster Pet AI and our pet’s inability to live through Agony, I still prefer my Ranger over my Thief in Dungeons.

When it comes to PVP though, I prefer my Thief. Though, I do have a good time playing a Bunker/Trap Ranger as well, simply because I’m so tanky.

Just to say, for the record, I think once Ranger’s get their fixes/buffs they will undoubtedly be a very strong Dungeon Profession. You just need to have patience and when I say patience, I mean be prepared to wait a year.

Jubei.5923:

2) Solid DPS.

To those who agree with this, you are saying it is ‘solid, sustainable DPS’. Yeah, it’s sustainble, alright. Sustainably low. Seriously go try another class and do some tests on dummies in Heart of the Mists. Then come back here and cry.

..nothing wrong here.

Didn’t read all the posts, so sorry if this was already mentioned

Main roll of a ranger in dungeons is ranged DPS and to stay alive. That is it.

Group support is non-existent, apart from healing spring, cos spirits are crap. Providing a steady output of ranged DPS is the best support a ranger can give the group.

Traps bri, Traps. That is also a form of support, albeit combo field and CD support.

Rhaps.8540:

Jubei.5923:

2) Solid DPS.

To those who agree with this, you are saying it is ‘solid, sustainable DPS’. Yeah, it’s sustainble, alright. Sustainably low. Seriously go try another class and do some tests on dummies in Heart of the Mists. Then come back here and cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQpdfp3xFoM

..nothing wrong here.

And after you do that you can tell your party, “can we please wait 2 minutes for my skills to come off of cooldown so I can do that again?”

Ranger burst damage with pet is fine (which generally means PvE since pets often can’t hit in PvP). Jubei however specifically said sustained damage, which the video you’ve posted is the opposite of.

From my experience I’d agree with Jubei. Ranger is woefully lacking in DPS once the pet goes down. Which in dungeons is about half the time, nearly all the time against certain bosses and in Fractals 10+. It’s a great class to explore the world with since you and the pet form a mini-party and back each other up (pet can even res you). But the only way to carry your weight in dungeons is to keep your pet alive, which is frequently impossible due to the poor AI and huge swaths of AOEs.

BM conditions traps is EXTREMELY strong in dungeons. you can tank, and bring more utility and dps than a necro. i have issues with my pet only on some bosses.

Solandri.9640:

Rhaps.8540:

Jubei.5923:

2) Solid DPS.

To those who agree with this, you are saying it is ‘solid, sustainable DPS’. Yeah, it’s sustainble, alright. Sustainably low. Seriously go try another class and do some tests on dummies in Heart of the Mists. Then come back here and cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQpdfp3xFoM

..nothing wrong here.

And after you do that you can tell your party, “can we please wait 2 minutes for my skills to come off of cooldown so I can do that again?”

Ranger burst damage with pet is fine (which generally means PvE since pets often can’t hit in PvP). Jubei however specifically said sustained damage, which the video you’ve posted is the opposite of.

From my experience I’d agree with Jubei. Ranger is woefully lacking in DPS once the pet goes down. Which in dungeons is about half the time, nearly all the time against certain bosses and in Fractals 10+. It’s a great class to explore the world with since you and the pet form a mini-party and back each other up (pet can even res you). But the only way to carry your weight in dungeons is to keep your pet alive, which is frequently impossible due to the poor AI and huge swaths of AOEs.

The only 2 min cd is RaO and that isnt required for the burst as stealth would grant the same constant crits for its duration. In fact RaO should come after the inital burst so it’s a 1 min cd on QZ and Sickem then the duration of RaO’s fury for more constant crits (23 seconds).. so really yer looking at a maximum ‘downtime’ of 37 seconds and that’s discounting the recharge on stealth or quickness on pet swap.

The video I posted is of a ranger attacking the dummies, like he suggested. It doesn’t show sustained dmg because the thing dies in less than three seconds.

I have no problems keeping my pet alive during dungeons, exp modes, bosses, 10+ fractals – the lot. Agony is the only issue as pets don’t get AR from your gear, which is an obvious oversight, but it really shouldnt be an issue until you are in the 20+ bracket. If you know the encounter you should know when to draw your pet back to avoid most AoEs & agony spikes.

Soo.. that’s my experience with Ranger. I guess I still disagree with both yourself and Jubei.

Condition/trap rangers do pretty decent dps and generally have good survivability (and they aren’t that reliant on pet damage for their dps). Yes there are classes that can do higher dps and bring more utility to a group. Outside of higher level fractals, I don’t think that having a ranger in a group is any sort of impediment.

Wow, thank you guys very much for all the input and different perspectives. I didn’t expect so many outlooks and opinion, but I’m very appreciative
At least now I know they’re not impossible to play or anything. But I do like the fact that they’re different and possibly “under-estimated”, even though I’m sure a lot of times the payoff isn’t as good as it maybe should be.
But I’ll definitely take all these views into consideration and will probably just have to try it out myself and judge it to my own playstyle.
Thanks again, guys