Guild Wars 2

I hit the level 50 milestone on my new Thief! Not too much longer before I’m 80, and back in action!! Wewt.

Seriously, just remake a thief and your shortbow gets so much better!

Hit multiple targets, on demand tagetable aoe/blast finisher (spammable) that can bleed!… evade is on 3… don’t even have to relearn that one.

Or Dual Pistol… Auto attack is fast like ranger’s shortbow…and it bleeds for 4 seconds. But you can just hit 3 instead to “unload” a REDICULOUS amount of damage.

I’ve spent so much time crunching the numbers. It is not mathmatically possible for a Pre-nerf Ranger to do as much damage as a Thief. It doesn’t matter what spec, what gear set or combination there-of… a thief can out dps it. And not by a little bit either.

Here, just one example of some numbers that illustrate the difference just 1 second on bleeds makes. (Not even comparing the positional requirement on ranger) because the actual damage each attack does is identical…

3 second bleed requires 35% condition duration to get 1 extra tick. (Puts it on par with thief’s pistol)
4 second bleed only requires 25% condition duration to get one tick.
To match that….the Ranger needs 70% condition damage… (That’s a whole 50% condition damage to even up the score…) 5 seconds… 70%.
You know what a thief does with just 5% more? 7 second bleeds. You know what a shortbow Ranger can never do? 7 second bleeds…

TLDR: Really, if you are having issues with the dev’s “plan” for the Ranger. Just reroll. The problem isn’t the game, the proffesion, or the dev team. The problem isn’t even this nerf. The problem is you are trying to make your Ranger dps, which they are clearly not intended to do.

I know how you feel. Just got my warrior to 23ish last night. Seriously, if you are enjoying your ranger do not play a warrior with a rifle it will make you sad.

Killshot(F1 ability) on the warrior rifle is criting for 400+ at level 20….. it also has rapid fire and vulnerability like the LB and a cripple like the SB and a melee range knockback. You’re probably thinking yea but it doesn’t do as much damage with auto attacks and probably doesn’t have the 1200 range….wrong on both accounts and it bleeds on auto attack like the SB. How the warrior ended up with these ranged abilities and the engi and ranger didn’t i’ll never know. I won’t even compare the greatswords…

It has 6 second non-positional bleeds. It is far and away better than the Ranger’s shortbow bleeds. 3/4 second fire rate. With no bonus condition duration at all, it allows for a stack of 8. SB can hit 6 (almost).

That’s 33% more by default. It gets worse when you start addin in condition duration! If you have 20% duration, rifle stacks 9, while SB stacks 6 still. (That’s 50% better!!)

@OP

You are assuming that all players have time to re-roll and want to learn a new class style.

The pre-nerf SB Ranger was just right for me. But now the feel of the same Ranger in the same places is horrible. I’m dying all the time (or taking much longer to kill).

I play a dual dagger Ele sometimes when i want some adrenaline, but I find it too stressful to keep it up long. The Ranger used to be a fun relaxing char for my casual play style. Now it isn’t.

Yup, I started my thief as well. How pathetic is it that so many other classes are better at “ranged” than the “ranger”?

I have a thief and will be rolling a warrior shortly. I love the thief shortbow, I feel like it’s a lot more action packed than running to the side of somebody and spamming 1.

Also, with the double pistols, I like to hit them twice with the 2 skill to apply 10 stacks of vulnerability, then unload with the 3 skill.

You do realize thieves are SUPPOSED to do more damage then a ranger right? As such if a hit actually collides with them they’re pretty much killed on the spot, this isn’t wow, not every prof is supposed to provide the same amount of damage/passive survivability/support/control as the others…

Durzlla.6295:

You do realize thieves are SUPPOSED to do more damage then a ranger right? As such if a hit actually collides with them they’re pretty much killed on the spot, this isn’t wow, not every prof is supposed to provide the same amount of damage/passive survivability/support/control as the others…

All classes should have equal abilities to play all of those. Rangers can’t DPS with the top dawgs because we get nerfed everywhere. Our pets suck so that ruins the class mechanic

We can’t support because our spirits die almost instantly. Our elites aren’t too bad, but they have a high cd so nobody really plays a class for the elites.

sbow and longbow are decent for control, when paired with traps (dare I say traps are the only good thing about rangers?) but both of those were nerfed hard.

@rickets

not entirely sure why but the forums randomly bugs out and doesn’t show the quote, +1, or any of the other normal buttons… anyways on my warrior, with the build and gear I have, I have a 100% crit chance at lv 24. Plus I think one of my traits turns crits into bleeds.

Durz, I’m pretty sure that’s what I said… So one would assume that is also something I “do realize”.

Kirito.3591:

@rickets

not entirely sure why but the forums randomly bugs out and doesn’t show the quote, +1, or any of the other normal buttons… anyways on my warrior, with the build and gear I have, I have a 100% crit chance at lv 24. Plus I think one of my traits turns crits into bleeds.

Yes, you can bleed on crit. Warriors can also pick up a major trait that adds 50% bleed duration. That is only equivalent to… you know… 5 weapon sigils. What’s 50% bleed duration between friends though?

Strongfort.2451:

Yup, I started my thief as well. How pathetic is it that so many other classes are better at “ranged” than the “ranger”?

Ranger does not mean someone who uses ranged weapons.

It refers to someone who travels or roams over large swaths of territory.

@nldixon.8514:
From here:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

Just sayin’ …

What is this ‘rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows…’ ?
Must be from some other game?

nldixon.8514:

Ranger does not mean someone who uses ranged weapons.

It refers to someone who travels or roams over large swaths of territory.

In GW2 is does indeed mean ranged. As above posters have already said “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” -according to Arenanet themselves.

Strongfort.2451:

nldixon.8514:

Ranger does not mean someone who uses ranged weapons.

It refers to someone who travels or roams over large swaths of territory.

In GW2 is does indeed mean ranged. As above posters have already said “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” -according to Arenanet themselves.

When can I play that ranger?

I wish I knew Lobo, I wish I knew…

Oh yeah, it’s called Thief with Shortbow! They just messed up the name and description on the website.

nldixon.8514:

Strongfort.2451:

Yup, I started my thief as well. How pathetic is it that so many other classes are better at “ranged” than the “ranger”?

Ranger does not mean someone who uses ranged weapons.

It refers to someone who travels or roams over large swaths of territory.

How about we quote the Creators of the game?

Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

yup… unparalleled… totally

oh and looking at the full blurb

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

No where does it say melee or CQC. It emphasizes RANGED COMBAT via BOWS!

As a main Mesmer, I honestly don’t see why people bother using ranged weaponry as their main source of damage in the first place. You just end up killing yourselves on our feedback bubbles. That’s the absolute most fun I have as a mesmer.. letting you kill yourselves.

That’s why with my ranger alt I try to avoid shortbow and longbow. I’m using axe/horn (which I know is ranged— I may use 1hs later) and greatsword, and I’m having a blast.. and that’s probably why I was unaffected by the nerf. =P

My raven is still almost one-shot-killing everything— and I think that’s a bug, and that’s why I feel guilty about it— but it’s fun anyway.

You can walk out of feedback bubbles.

If you’re just playing PvE, go for Beast Mastery. The damage pets can deal (and absorb) when fully specced is insane, as you’re seeing there. Unfortunately they don’t work in PvP.

Kirito, I like your attempt to take sections of the GW2 page out of context to try to prove your point.

However, I would like to point out that the rest of the page on Rangers has absolutely nothing to do with bows or ranged combat except for that one snippet you quoted. There is LITERALLY one sentence about bows. Let’s look at the rest of the page, shall we?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Not only do traps, pets, and spirits get mentioned more often than bows, they actually go into detail about pets and have a special section dedicated to traps and spirits.

Where is the section dedicated to bows and ranged combat?

Ben K.6238:

The damage pets can deal (and absorb) when fully specced is insane, as you’re seeing there. Unfortunately they don’t work in PvP.

This isn’t true at all. Ranged pets do pretty well in PvP, especially coupled with traps and longbow or axe for control.

@nldixon.8514:
What you call “one snippet” is the punch line with which they try to sell the profession to the players. So it’s basically just another case of false advertising – promise something in the punch line which never gets delivered in the final product.

I also like how you backpedal on the other things and move your goal posts. They mention

• nature spirits – which you don’t lose a single word on because they are obviously useless as they die the moment something even looks their direction.
• pets – iirc there are 39 pets in total of which 7 (4 spiders and 3 devourers) are ranged, which leaves us with a ~18% usefull feature.
• traps – the only really usefull thing that also almost works as promised (see the bugs about thrown traps relocating when they are triggered).

Btw: the signature character for the profession is depicted carrying a bow. And one of the four videos shows a ranged skill. But yes, ranged combat is never mentioned again on that page other than the single sentence…

Baelnorn.5710:

@nldixon.8514:
What you call “one snippet” is the punch line with which they try to sell the profession to the players. So it’s basically just another case of false advertising – promise something in the punch line which never gets delivered in the final product.

I also like how you backpedal on the other things and move your goal posts. They mention

• nature spirits – which you don’t lose a single word on because they are obviously useless as they die the moment something even looks their direction.
• pets – iirc there are 39 pets in total of which 7 (4 spiders and 3 devourers) are ranged, which leaves us with a ~18% usefull feature.
• traps – the only really usefull thing that also almost works as promised (see the bugs about thrown traps relocating when they are triggered).

Btw: the signature character for the profession is depicted carrying a bow. And one of the four videos shows a ranged skill. But yes, ranged combat is never mentioned again on that page other than the single sentence…

I have no idea what this means: “I also like how you backpedal on the other things and move your goal posts.”

Backpedal doesn’t mean what you think it means, apparently.

Second, how exactly is there false advertising? Let’s look at what the Ranger page says: Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.

Is there any other class that has any bow attacks that can exceed a range of 1200 besides the Ranger? In fact, are there even any ranged attacks that come close to the 1500 range of the longbow? As far as I know, there are not. That makes Rangers the unparalleled archers described.

How is that false advertising?

In any case, the focus of the Ranger page is on the versatility of the Ranger class, not the ranged damage. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation. It’s the very last sentence on the lead in to the Ranger page. Then the rest of the page is about… Traps, spirits, and pets.

It sounds to me like the Ranger class is working exactly as described on the Ranger page.

nldixon.8514:

Is there any other class that has any bow attacks that can exceed a range of 1200 besides the Ranger? In fact, are there even any ranged attacks that come close to the 1500 range of the longbow? As far as I know, there are not. That makes Rangers the unparalleled archers.

How is that false advertising?

SizeRange doesn’t matter. It’s efficiency. At LB max range you can easily evade the arrows without even using dodge rolls (when your attacks aren’t flying into some invisible wall yielding the lovely [OBSTRUCTED] message). So against an opponent that’s not completely braindead you’ll do close to 0 damage with your LB. Something like the warrior’s Killshot is much more useful since it

• can deal massive burst damage
• is much harder to evade (actually requires dodge rolls)

nldixon.8514:

In any case, the focus of the Ranger page is on the versatility of the Ranger class, not the ranged damage. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation. It’s the very last sentence on the lead in to the Ranger page. Then the rest of the page is about… Traps, spirits, and pets.

Actually, the whole page and description only mentions ranger killing stuff with bows. Swords or axes or horns are only mentioned as weapons options, but never does the page say that rangers would kill anything with those.

So actually the page categorizes the 4 topics like this:

• [primary] Bows/ranged in general
• [secondary] Traps
• [secondary] Pets
• [secondary] Nature spirits

with traps/pets/spirits being equally powerful options. All secondary options the ranger profession has to account for its versatality (other than traps) have a metric ton of issues and bugs which make them either completely useless (pets) or even traps (nature spirits, as they are incredibly weak in pvp compared to what other professions get even after sinking 30 points into the related traits).

nldixon.8514:

It sounds to me like the Ranger class is working exactly as described on the Ranger page.

Uhmm… nope. Just compare the utilities from thieves/warriors with the ones the ranger gets (e.g. on gw2skills.net). The other two professions get incredibly useful and strong stuff which is far ahead in versatility of what we get. So unless the page somewhere describes the ranger as an inferior combatant, I can’t possibly see it working that way.

I was testing the Ranger short bow against the Warrior rifle the other day. Right now as it stands, the auto attacks of both weapons do about the same dps. The rifle just has a bunch of other damage attacks to go along with it.

Baelnorn.5710:

nldixon.8514:

Is there any other class that has any bow attacks that can exceed a range of 1200 besides the Ranger? In fact, are there even any ranged attacks that come close to the 1500 range of the longbow? As far as I know, there are not. That makes Rangers the unparalleled archers.

How is that false advertising?

SizeRange doesn’t matter. It’s efficiency. At LB max range you can easily evade the arrows without even using dodge rolls (when your attacks aren’t flying into some invisible wall yielding the lovely [OBSTRUCTED] message). So against an opponent that’s not completely braindead you’ll do close to 0 damage with your LB. Something like the warrior’s Killshot is much more useful since it

• can deal massive burst damage
• is much harder to evade (actually requires dodge rolls)

nldixon.8514:

In any case, the focus of the Ranger page is on the versatility of the Ranger class, not the ranged damage. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation. It’s the very last sentence on the lead in to the Ranger page. Then the rest of the page is about… Traps, spirits, and pets.

Actually, the whole page and description only mentions ranger killing stuff with bows. Swords or axes or horns are only mentioned as weapons options, but never does the page say that rangers would kill anything with those.

So actually the page categorizes the 4 topics like this:

• [primary] Bows/ranged in general
• [secondary] Traps
• [secondary] Pets
• [secondary] Nature spirits

with traps/pets/spirits being equally powerful options. All secondary options the ranger profession has to account for its versatality (other than traps) have a metric ton of issues and bugs which make them either completely useless (pets) or even traps (nature spirits, as they are incredibly weak in pvp compared to what other professions get even after sinking 30 points into the related traits).

nldixon.8514:

It sounds to me like the Ranger class is working exactly as described on the Ranger page.

Uhmm… nope. Just compare the utilities from thieves/warriors with the ones the ranger gets (e.g. on gw2skills.net). The other two professions get incredibly useful and strong stuff which is far ahead in versatility of what we get. So unless the page somewhere describes the ranger as an inferior combatant, I can’t possibly see it working that way.

I can play this game too, broski.

Kill Shot is a RIFLE skill. It doesn’t say on the page that Rangers are masters of rifles. Just archery. Second, what a Warrior can or can’t do has no bearing on the Ranger class, since we’re not talking about the Ranger class in comparison to other classes. We’re talking about the capabilities of the Ranger class and it’s intended purpose.

There is one sentence on the entire page about Rangers using bows. There is absolutely NO other mention of Rangers killing stuff with bows. In fact, the whole page is primarily focused on TRAPS, PETS, and SPIRITS. How you can possibly think that the whole page is focused on the ability of Rangers to take foes down based on one sentence in the into is beyond me.

Finally, the page describes the Ranger as a class that can adapt to any situation, not some kind of killing machine. In fact, it doesn’t say anywhere that the Ranger is an amazing combatant. It simply says they’re “capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows”. That’s it.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here, but you obviously want the Ranger class to be something it’s not and something it’s not intended to be. If you the the Warrior and Thief class are so much superior in ranged combat, then by all means go play a Warrior or a Thief.

Ok, 1st trait of ranger MARKSMANSHIP.
I sure does not see any other class have that trait description.
Just saying..

nldixon.8514:

I can play this game too, broski.

Kill Shot is a RIFLE skill. It doesn’t say on the page that Rangers are masters of rifles. Just archery. Second, what a Warrior can or can’t do has no bearing on the Ranger class, since we’re not talking about the Ranger class in comparison to other classes. We’re talking about the capabilities of the Ranger class and it’s intended purpose.

There is one sentence on the entire page about Rangers using bows. There is absolutely NO other mention of Rangers killing stuff with bows. In fact, the whole page is primarily focused on TRAPS, PETS, and SPIRITS. How you can possibly think that the whole page is focused on the ability of Rangers to take foes down based on one sentence in the into is beyond me.

Finally, the page describes the Ranger as a class that can adapt to any situation, not some kind of killing machine. In fact, it doesn’t say anywhere that the Ranger is an amazing combatant. It simply says they’re “capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows”. That’s it.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here, but you obviously want the Ranger class to be something it’s not and something it’s not intended to be. If you the the Warrior and Thief class are so much superior in ranged combat, then by all means go play a Warrior or a Thief.

Chillax bromeister…

You argument is what? That something is irrelevant if it is a small portion of a complete article? That’s just faulty logic.

The description clearly states mastery of bows and archery etc… unparalleled even. The word “unparalleled” is a comparator, it is saying better than anyone else. This actually makes discussing options and abilities of other professions very relevant. If their archery is superior to a rangers… then a ranger isn’t an “Unparalleled archer”.

Rangers are still unparalleled, seeing as how they’re the only class that can reach 1200+ units at range.

I didn’t say it was irrelevant. I said that archery is not the major focus of the Ranger class, as evidenced by the Ranger page. Obviously Rangers are intended to be versatile. It says it right there on the page. It doesn’t say, “Rangers are exclusively a ranged combat class and are better at shooting people with bows in every single way imaginable.”

If that were the case, the whole Ranger page would be focused on bows, archery, and ranged combat. Instead, the focus of the page is on traps, pets, and spirits. How does that indicate that Rangers are the masters of ranged combat?

There is already a thread about this topic, please use this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-SB-Nerf-Not-40-milliseconds