Regarding build diversity/ ANETs Post

Regarding build diversity/ ANETs Post

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Posted by: Ranys.4028

Ranys.4028

Well, the changes/nerfs to CA healing will not diversify us on their own. If you go with this, and only this, I can promise you, any non healer build will die.

This is gonna be pretty ranty, but it will touch on a lot of things. Short form down below!

PvP:
If this will be applied in PvP too, any build without HealPow will fall off the radar even more than they already have. You will have even more Bunker Druid players, because this is already good, and will now be the only good choice, because all other builds will loose out on survivability. They will keep using Solider rune/ Resounding Timbre and a bunch of shouts.

Raids(and maybe Fractals/Dungeons)
Even though I don’t run Raids myself yet, I have friends who taught me a little about how druids are used in Raids. Right now they use about 1200 HealPow, the rest of stats are used for damage, because more damage is good.
Now, depending on how you will balance this, we might actually see a bit more diversity in raids. If our scaling gets better in a way that we need less that 1200 HealPow, we can use the “left over” stats for other things. If we still need the same HealPow, nothing will change. If we need more, we will either be a pure healer class, or we will become useless, replaces by Ele healers or something like that.

And with a quick look at fractals: Our condi damage build was relevant T4 fractals, but that already changed with the recent fractal scaling change. If anything, Condi builds are maybe on par with power builds. And our power builds are already underwhelming.

WvW:
I play a lot of WvW, and right now we druids function just as a healer/cc dealer + fury/regen bot there. There are some niche builds for zerkfighting, like usic Sic’em and Berserker stats + longbow + ancient seeds to pick of all the thieves that wanna sneak around on the sides, but even killing them is not quite easy.
The projectile hate makes Longbow not very useful for the rest of zerkfights. Many times you can use LB5 and then throw it away.
Shortbow/Axe mainhand suffer from this too.
Condimeta forces us to pick some condi clear. So Druidic Clarity is almost a must. As already mentioned in the PvP section, many use Trooper Runes(read Soldier for PvP) for condi clear with shouts. This is a rather small condi clear, but it’s quite reliable anyway, also it’s AoE for 5 people. So that’s all fine.
There are 3 other options for condi clear:
1. Signet of Renewal: The problem here is that it’s a very long cooldown. Also the pet has to be within 600 range and alive. In zerkfights this is quite unreliable, chances are both pets are dead and switch is on cooldown, well, you’re kittened! Oh? You clicked it anyway, because you paniced? Well, it’s on a minute cooldown now! Even though it did nothing! Common, this is an annoying concept Anet. There has to be a better way for this! Even if the pet is alive, if we are in a zerkfight and it draws condis from a few allies(Is there even a cap? I bet it’s 5), that’s basically an instant death for the pet
2.Wilderness knowledge + Survival Abilities: Good condi clear, but the Troll Unguent is a very risky heal ability, for sharpening stones we would need good condi builds and who even uses muddy terrain?
3. Verdant Etching + Glyphs. So yea, for WvW this one is irrelevant. The seed of live only casts after our Glyph casting time is over and then it takes another second for the seed to explode and actually clear the condi and heal us and for that we need to stay in that small field around the seed? Need to doge something or run away from something or anything else that keeps you from standing still in the field? Okay! Your verdant etching is useless! Even if you buffed it, like for example: “Verdant Etching – One Condi is removed from you and your pet when you start casting a glyph” Or set the radius to 450 or make the seed explode faster. Also, Lightfield? Yes! We definitely don’t have enough lightfields on the battlefield!
Even then, the glyphs are still just kinda bad. Tiny radius, no boons, Glyph of Unity is more useless than Mistfire Wolf. Glyph of alignment is underwhelming in Normal form, If I’ll take it, I’d use it for the CA form, but even that it only has a ranger of 300 again.
Glyphs, as they are now, are just totally useless for WvW (Cept glyph of equality. Everyone loves equality)
BTW, why does Seed of Life have half a second Cast Time if I just wanna normally place it in CA? That means it takes 1.5 seconds for it to fully take effect! I will NEVER ever hit my allies with this! I never cast it. It’s no use. Allies are just too good at dodging such a small thing. Even I myself am too good at dodging it!

Regarding build diversity/ ANETs Post

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Posted by: Ranys.4028

Ranys.4028

And another big thing for WvW, Tagging! (Even though I don’t actually know if there might have been a change here) Lunar Impact doesn’t tag anything for loot, as far as I know. One thing we were able to do as zerk healers was using Mainhand Axe for some tags with it’s nice 3 bounces. That was already taken away from us last balance patch. Was that really necessary? It didn’t feel too strong in my opinion. I would rather have had a slight damage nerf, and kept the 3 bounces instead of what you have done to us.

Rant is done here

Conclusion:

  1. The thing that makes the not-full-healPow builds viable at the moment is the survivability from CA. If you take that away, we will have less build diversity, instead of more
  2. Glyphs desperately need to be looked at. Verdant etching(and Seed of life in general) is useless in WvW, and not good enough to be taken over shouts + trooper rune in all other modes. Also, Glyph of Unity is kitten, rather take Mistfire Wolf.
  3. Wilderness survival Traitline + Abilities are(for Zerkfights) the only reliable condiclear beside Shouts + Trooper and the Shout + Trooper is just way better for Zerks.

I have not proofread it a lot, so if there is anything that doesn’t make sense, please tell me, I’ll have a look at it.

Lovely Greetings
Ranys

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Posted by: Bast Bow.2958

Bast Bow.2958

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

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Posted by: Gotejjeken.1267

Gotejjeken.1267

The problem as I see it is this…Druid is a full out support line. Core ranger never had enough damage lines to begin with the compensate for this. They don’t look to be compensating for the Druid changes either.

Which is baffling. Either you play Druid and 100% accept you are backline support or not play Druid and defeat a portion of buying HoT.

What Druid SHOULD be is like Smite Monk from GW1. Give some damage in addition to the healing to make taking the line worthwhile.

We can’t have that because Guardian exists.

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

I believe the trapper did good in WvW.
It was also stated as a popular build on metabattle. I’ve never been a WvW player but that’s what I heard.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: InsaneQR.7412

InsaneQR.7412

Well if they tone down the healing done without healing power but tune it up with healing power mi shamans gear actually works even better now
I hope they will it adjust it like this, because otherwise it makes healing from a druid kitten pointless

Pale Raiders united.
9 Sylvari, 9 unique Builds.

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

I believe the trapper did good in WvW.
It was also stated as a popular build on metabattle. I’ve never been a WvW player but that’s what I heard.

Trapper is terrible in wvw, even more so in zerg fights. Traps were decent when you could still throw them but since they were nerfed they have become useless. Without a point to fight over there is no reason for anyone to stand in them.

@Bast bow, condi is strong for small zerg/large havoc against unorganized pug zergs because epi bombs can melt a group. This tactic doesn’t work against organized zergs because of resistance boon share.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Trapper is terrible in wvw, even more so in zerg fights. Traps were decent when you could still throw them but since they were nerfed they have become useless. . .

Sounds reasonable.
… Sorry for the confusion.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Ranys.4028

Ranys.4028

What Jim Hunter said.
I don’t have problems with condis when I run with my own guild, but if I go to the public zerk I’ll die without clear, if I go roam I’ll die anyway.
Yes, a year ago(before HoT) it might have been the case that condies were not very important at all. Now, they are.
Condi thieves are annoying in roaming groups, condi warriors/necros(and some others I’m sure)are quite well used.
I’m playing healer for my guild, I know what my people die from, I don’t know very well who’s casting it.
There are also CC condies that need to be cleared, taunt/root/fear, and some softer stuff like chill/cripple. Just because it doesn’t do damage does not mean it shouldn’t be cleared.

Also I’m pretty sure there are some condi mesmers in WvW. Almost died from walking with torment once.

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Honestly condi’s are really only a problem for people who aren’t prepared to deal with them. Guild groups have no problems with them and roamers don’t have a problem with them. It’s players who get separated from their zerg or pug groups that don’t run the right builds. These players rely on the group to keep them cleansed instead of adjusting their builds to handle it.

That being said I absolutely agree that verdant etching is worthless and I have been saying for years that empathic bond needs to be changed. I really want it to transfer 1 condi to your pet every 3 seconds and either convert it to a boon or give your pet 3 seconds of resistance.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Gotejjeken.1267

Gotejjeken.1267

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

I believe the trapper did good in WvW.
It was also stated as a popular build on metabattle. I’ve never been a WvW player but that’s what I heard.

Trapper is terrible in wvw, even more so in zerg fights. Traps were decent when you could still throw them but since they were nerfed they have become useless. Without a point to fight over there is no reason for anyone to stand in them.

@Bast bow, condi is strong for small zerg/large havoc against unorganized pug zergs because epi bombs can melt a group. This tactic doesn’t work against organized zergs because of resistance boon share.

Stealth trapper is actually still pretty good in WvW. I’d never use traps without those runes though.

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Posted by: Zelulose.8695

Zelulose.8695

Trust me if they nerfed druid healing to zero Druid would still do well thanks to stealth and condition clear.

Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

I believe the trapper did good in WvW.
It was also stated as a popular build on metabattle. I’ve never been a WvW player but that’s what I heard.

Trapper is terrible in wvw, even more so in zerg fights. Traps were decent when you could still throw them but since they were nerfed they have become useless. Without a point to fight over there is no reason for anyone to stand in them.

@Bast bow, condi is strong for small zerg/large havoc against unorganized pug zergs because epi bombs can melt a group. This tactic doesn’t work against organized zergs because of resistance boon share.

Stealth trapper is actually still pretty good in WvW. I’d never use traps without those runes though.

Stealth trapper is good for clearing camps quickly, not much else.
Sure you can use it and kill bad players but the build is full of weaknesses, including the inability to kill someone that just decides to run from you. The players that you can kill as a trapper will die no matter what build you are running.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Gotejjeken.1267

Gotejjeken.1267

It’s good for disengaging, and roaming in general. At 2500+ condition damage traps hurt…whether you want to see that or not.

What else would you take to roam…Druid? Maybe if you want a 20 minute stalemate where you can’t kill anyone, sure.

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Posted by: OGDeadHead.8326

OGDeadHead.8326

At 2500+ condition damage traps hurt…

If they are allowed to tick their condi damage, sure…

Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user

Regarding build diversity/ ANETs Post

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

At 2500+ condition damage traps hurt…

If they are allowed to tick their condi damage, sure…

^This.
Like I said they are great for clearing camps and killing bad players that are willing to stand in them. And I don’t get how they are good for disengaging…. maybe against 1 player who has zero cc or mobility. If you are running full traps you maybe have 1 stun break depending on if you are druid or not, after you pop that you are pretty much screwed.

Don’t get me wrong, occasionally I get bored enough to throw on my trapper gear and I can rack up some kills, but I also used to lvl up rangers in WvW just to kill people as an uplevel. That build had no runes, sigils, it was missing whole traitlines and it still killed people, that didn’t make it a good build.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Gotejjeken.1267

Gotejjeken.1267

Ah yeah, I’m not running full traps, only 2. Running that with shout bunker…and a LOT of things die.

Really the traps are just for stealth condi bombing, but I’ve seen more than a few people dance around in flame trap long enough to feel it.

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Ah yeah, I’m not running full traps, only 2. Running that with shout bunker…and a LOT of things die.

Really the traps are just for stealth condi bombing, but I’ve seen more than a few people dance around in flame trap long enough to feel it.

Yeah it never fails to amaze me how many people will face tank traps. These are the same people that whisper you afterwards about playing “cheese” and then come cry on the forums about condi’s being op lol.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Bast Bow.2958

Bast Bow.2958

Ranys since when is condi meta in wvw zerg/blob fighting? I haven’t wvw’d much in a year but those fights used to have more then enough cleanses for condi to be viable. Raw dmg was always the way to go?

I believe the trapper did good in WvW.
It was also stated as a popular build on metabattle. I’ve never been a WvW player but that’s what I heard.

Trapper is terrible in wvw, even more so in zerg fights. Traps were decent when you could still throw them but since they were nerfed they have become useless. Without a point to fight over there is no reason for anyone to stand in them.

@Bast bow, condi is strong for small zerg/large havoc against unorganized pug zergs because epi bombs can melt a group. This tactic doesn’t work against organized zergs because of resistance boon share.

Ah yes. Then nothing changed much in that perspective. Ty