Guild Wars 2

I’m making a new topic about this because I think it deserves a discussion all by itself.

Ranger has long had good access to regeneration through skills such as Healing Spring, Fern Hound, and now Shouts, Water Spirit, and traited Warhorn. Really, Regen has become a defining thematic boon for the Ranger.

Currently, Regeneration is not counted towards healing charging for Druid’s Celestial Avatar form. If it was, we could charge the form with a variety of Shout builds, Trap Builds and even by using traited Warhorn 5 efficiently. It would really open up Druid build variety and still give preference to builds bringing a focus upon healing and Healing Power

The amount of charging from Regen doesn’t have to be as high as it is from straight healing, but at least some amount would create much more synergy between Druid and Ranger’s preexisting traitlines.

What are people’s thoughts about this? I can’t really see how it’s a bad idea, and it would make a characteristically weak boon much stronger in the Ranger’s hands.

/signed, make it happen.

I agree, I was actually surprised by the fact it doesn’t charge as I expected all sources of healing from us to charge the bar, but expected celestial form to work work a bit differently too….

Yeah, I said this before the reveal and in the reveal thread. Not only should the Astral Force be generated by Regeneration, but one of the druid traits should have synergy with Regeneration as well, we have so much of it, its just crazy that it doesn’t. The CAF skills could do with some regen too, even though we already have a lot of it, having none of the only healing boon on the only healing dedicated form seems absurd.

Does anyone know if Natural Mender increases the healing of Regeneration? It should but if it doesn’t we need to report it as a bug. All other forms of +X% outgoing healing class regeneration as healing, so that should too.

agreed. regen is healing, it makes no sense that it doesn’t help charge cele.

Agreed. But not only regen should be counted, anything that does healing should count towards AF generation including our signet of the wild.

Photinous.4628:

Agreed. But not only regen should be counted, anything that does healing should count towards AF generation including our signet of the wild.

I’m unsure whether Signet of the wild really should, since it works alll the time. I could see it being the same as a dps tick for the Astral Force, but much more and it would auto charge the force in about 20 seconds of combat

It’s super unfortunate that the Elite Spirit is bugged right now and doesnt have a heal tick because I was looking forward to testing how it synergized with Druid…

I agree. Regeneration is one of the ranger’s most populous boons. If it could build up astral force it would allow druids to build it without needing the staff, which would work better with core ranger builds.

This is a good suggestion.

infantrydiv.1620:

Photinous.4628:

Agreed. But not only regen should be counted, anything that does healing should count towards AF generation including our signet of the wild.

I’m unsure whether Signet of the wild really should, since it works alll the time. I could see it being the same as a dps tick for the Astral Force, but much more and it would auto charge the force in about 20 seconds of combat

It’s super unfortunate that the Elite Spirit is bugged right now and doesnt have a heal tick because I was looking forward to testing how it synergized with Druid…

I believe it counts but the regen effect doesn’t proc at all if you are at full health unlike other heals such as trolls or solar beam on the pet.

Simply, it will slowly fill the bar during combat but not while out of combat/

Astral Force generation…it has to be looked at. It’s generation even through multiple-hit skills like Warhorn #4 is so low that it’s barely noticeable.

And then you have Staff #1 and jesus beam through any ally. It refreshes whole bar within 4-5 sevonds with one ally and in teamfight it’s practically instant. And Celestial has no ICD.

But I agree that Regeneration should count somehow.

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that regen/healing should be the way to fill astral force as it leads to situations where you have to take certain weapons (in this case Staff only) or certain traits/heals (e.g., TU and WS) to be able to use Druid effectively. This is horrible for build diversity if you want to play Druid.

DPS should be the main factor in generating astral force and healing should fill it to a lesser degree (opposite of how it currently is) so that you are not tied into using Staff. You should be encouraged to use Staff (through increased astral generation) but not forced to take it.

I am not sure why the dev team decided to make healing be the primary generator of astral force but my guess is that its for balancing reasons. (i.e., they wanted to balance around the fact that users would only use staff which is much easier to do than trying to balance around a variable combination of different weapon sets.) If this is the reason, its a poor reason and highlights to me that Druid was a rush job.

Rym.1469:

Astral Force generation…it has to be looked at. It’s generation even through multiple-hit skills like Warhorn #4 is so low that it’s barely noticeable.

And then you have Staff #1 and jesus beam through any ally. It refreshes whole bar within 4-5 sevonds with one ally and in teamfight it’s practically instant. And Celestial has no ICD.

But I agree that Regeneration should count somehow.

This is an example of what I mean in staff being OP or really being necessary for Druid. Being able to fill your bar so easily by spamming skill 1 while other weapons generate astral force pitifully slow is not good for build diversity.

Healing and DPS should just be equally beneficial, to cater for all playstyles and builds.

If Regeneration actually counted, you could play shout builds and it would be gold, or WH with WN on a DPS setup, even a Fern Hound would become miles better (and pet regen and healing should affect it).

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Healing and DPS should just be equally beneficial, to cater for all playstyles and builds.

If Regeneration actually counted, you could play shout builds and it would be gold, or WH with WN on a DPS setup, even a Fern Hound would become miles better (and pet regen and healing should affect it).

My reason for wanting DPS be the primary generator is that DPS is something that you always do regardless of what build/gametype you play and opens you up to being able to take a wider range of skills, weapons, traits. Yes, you can take shout builds but what if you don’t want to play one? You shouldn’t be totally kitten in astral force generation if you decide not to take “x” traits/utilities/weapons, etc. There is a balance and right now it heavily favors using a niche group of traits/weapons/skills because astral force generation is overwhelmingly tied to healing abilities.

What I would really like is for the druid to have a trait that allows regeneration to stack in intensity up to 2×. It would do something about the major problem of having excessive amounts of useless regeneration.

Could easily replace the really boring Minor Grandmaster (Natural Mender).

Leodon.1564:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Healing and DPS should just be equally beneficial, to cater for all playstyles and builds.

If Regeneration actually counted, you could play shout builds and it would be gold, or WH with WN on a DPS setup, even a Fern Hound would become miles better (and pet regen and healing should affect it).

My reason for wanting DPS be the primary generator is that DPS is something that you always do regardless of what build/gametype you play and opens you up to being able to take a wider range of skills, weapons, traits. Yes, you can take shout builds but what if you don’t want to play one? You shouldn’t be totally kitten in astral force generation if you decide not to take “x” traits/utilities/weapons, etc. There is a balance and right now it heavily favors using a niche group of traits/weapons/skills because astral force generation is overwhelmingly tied to healing abilities.

Which is why they should be equally beneficial.

Both methods should be viable for AF generation.

Some people want to be pure healers, some want to do pure dps and have the CAF as utility, some want to do all three at once. The only way to keep everyone happy at once is for all methods to work.

PolarLights.4825:

What I would really like is for the druid to have a trait that allows regeneration to stack in intensity up to 2×. It would do something about the major problem of having excessive amounts of useless regeneration.

Could easily replace the really boring Minor Grandmaster (Natural Mender).

I think that would be pretty hard to code tbh and monstrously powerful, so with my trait redux thread, I added 15% outgoing healing to regen through cultivated synergy. Maybe that could be a little higher. Even without that you can get regeneration to heal for over 500 per second.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Which is why they should be equally beneficial.

Both methods should be viable for AF generation.

They should but clearly Anet wanted to combat the creation of bunker builds that are nearly immortal 1v1 by making it fill most efficiently when you heal others even if Troll’s is the best way outside the staff.

With how high they hold spvp balance I can’t see damage filling the bar quickly without some large offset.

Substance E.4852:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Which is why they should be equally beneficial.

Both methods should be viable for AF generation.

They should but clearly Anet wanted to combat the creation of bunker builds that are nearly immortal 1v1 by making it fill most efficiently when you heal others even if Troll’s is the best way outside the staff.

With how high they hold spvp balance I can’t see damage filling the bar quickly without some large offset.

With TU being the most popular Ranger heal for sPvP and the fact it will fill the bar almost full in one use, there is no reason whatsoever to not make damage a more viable method.

As for damage, 0.25% is just laughable, it may as well be 0. I put this in another thread, but that is 3.6 minutes of auto attacking with a short bow, so that you can go into the form once.

At least if Regeneration counted towards AF generation as a heal, then WHaO (and shouts in general) with RT would be very viable. Would also make WH with WBN not bad either.

I tried to say during the reveal ¼% on damage was too low. Anyway, I’m game for Regeneration adding to Astral Force, but only on application.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Substance E.4852:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Which is why they should be equally beneficial.

Both methods should be viable for AF generation.

They should but clearly Anet wanted to combat the creation of bunker builds that are nearly immortal 1v1 by making it fill most efficiently when you heal others even if Troll’s is the best way outside the staff.

With how high they hold spvp balance I can’t see damage filling the bar quickly without some large offset.

With TU being the most popular Ranger heal for sPvP and the fact it will fill the bar almost full in one use, there is no reason whatsoever to not make damage a more viable method.

As for damage, 0.25% is just laughable, it may as well be 0. I put this in another thread, but that is 3.6 minutes of auto attacking with a short bow, so that you can go into the form once.

At least if Regeneration counted towards AF generation as a heal, then WHaO (and shouts in general) with RT would be very viable. Would also make WH with WBN not bad either.

I agree but this is also the same Anet who knee jerk gutted the boon sharing on WHaO because of some largely gag build in pvp.

At this point. I fully expect that the amount troll’s fills up the bar to be nerfed such that we only get Astral % when we actually generate green numbers. No more “healing” full health bars for points.

All simply because it wasn’t working as intended. Balance need not apply.

Color me shocked at release if this isn’t the case.

Lingering Light procs of regn.

Leodon.1564:

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that regen/healing should be the way to fill astral force as it leads to situations where you have to take certain weapons (in this case Staff only) or certain traits/heals (e.g., TU and WS) to be able to use Druid effectively. This is horrible for build diversity if you want to play Druid.

DPS should be the main factor in generating astral force and healing should fill it to a lesser degree (opposite of how it currently is) so that you are not tied into using Staff. You should be encouraged to use Staff (through increased astral generation) but not forced to take it.

I am not sure why the dev team decided to make healing be the primary generator of astral force but my guess is that its for balancing reasons. (i.e., they wanted to balance around the fact that users would only use staff which is much easier to do than trying to balance around a variable combination of different weapon sets.) If this is the reason, its a poor reason and highlights to me that Druid was a rush job.

Rym.1469:

Astral Force generation…it has to be looked at. It’s generation even through multiple-hit skills like Warhorn #4 is so low that it’s barely noticeable.

And then you have Staff #1 and jesus beam through any ally. It refreshes whole bar within 4-5 sevonds with one ally and in teamfight it’s practically instant. And Celestial has no ICD.

But I agree that Regeneration should count somehow.

This is an example of what I mean in staff being OP or really being necessary for Druid. Being able to fill your bar so easily by spamming skill 1 while other weapons generate astral force pitifully slow is not good for build diversity.

Personally i wouldn’t mind if say, both Healing and Damage did 1% per tick, and also regen counted, either on application or per tick. I also don’t really mind Healing having a slight advantage in terms of charging the form, since the spec is highly healing focused.

I agree that the rate of build for astral force needs to be adjusted and opened up for more use than just “use staff” to build it up at a decent speed. Though I feel that staff builds it too fast, and I think maybe staff 1 should have a limit of one astral force “tick” per target per AA rather than now where it does multiple ticks.

However, I am still fully opposed to Regen being that equalizing factor. While Ranger does have plenty of regen in a variety of places, its just far too passive. Just click a single button and watch the astral force roll in like water. You could throw out a few Shouts and then just spend the next 10 seconds running away, then end up with enough astral force to go into avatar form, rinse and repeat. Of course, a good player won’t do that, but it shouldn’t be possible for anyone to do it.

They just need to make damage boost the astral force regen rate more than it currently does.