Remove Pets and give us Animal Spirits

Remove Pets and give us Animal Spirits

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Posted by: Sang.3641

Sang.3641

This is a fairly dumb idea and will never happen but I thought I would share.

Instead of Ranger pets having a physical presence instead make them animal spirits.
The pet itself still has a visible representation just like our utility spirits do now and like our utility spirits they don’t attack or do dmg themselves, instead the spirit of the animal provides use with bonuses based on the animal we have supporting us.
As an example:
Bears give toughness/vitality
Canines give power/vitality
Birds give speed/precision
Cats give precision/power
On top of this they can still provide a unique F2 ability based on pet. For example if you have a raven spirit when you hit F2 the raven shoots forward and blinds your target etc.
Keep pet switching as is allowing us to change between two spirits but with the same cooldown on switching.
Then just fold in the lost pet dps directly into the ranger.

This would accomplish a few things that the ranger pet system currently has problems with.
1. Pet survivability would no longer be a problem
2. The problem with pets unable to hit moving targets would become a non issue
3. Dumb pathing and pets being an aggro magnet would also vanish

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Posted by: SharpFocus.2087

SharpFocus.2087

You’re probably right that it won’t happen.. but I sort of love the idea! It seems pretty cool, and would solve the pets problems.

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Posted by: monepipi.5160

monepipi.5160

But right now the pet has 3 other AI skills, how would you suggest working them in? maybe give us F1-F4? I do foresee some balance issues though.

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Posted by: Pulse Reaction.5042

Pulse Reaction.5042

I’d love to have this idea.

Jaguars could give camouflage to the ranger. Stalkers could have a Might shout. Could be very awesome indeed.

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Posted by: Danepher.5263

Danepher.5263

Actually a nice idea.

Liquid Intelligence [LI] || Blacktide
aka John Silverarrow and more.

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

But right now the pet has 3 other AI skills, how would you suggest working them in? maybe give us F1-F4? I do foresee some balance issues though.

Perhaps instead of just one ability per pet we could get pets bundled maybe by family or zone. So Bird F1 might be a blind, F2 the aoe swiftness boost, F3 a bleed and/or vulnerabilty. F4 Swap Spirit

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Engel Angel.9076

Engel Angel.9076

Then just fold in the lost pet dps directly into the ranger.

This would accomplish a few things that the ranger pet system currently has problems with.
1. Pet survivability would no longer be a problem
2. The problem with pets unable to hit moving targets would become a non issue
3. Dumb pathing and pets being an aggro magnet would also vanish

kittening awesome idea, love it!!!!
+1

“A single picture is worth a thousand words”

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

Almost forget sense this removes the pet as a combatant aspect of the profession the shout and signets need complete reworking. Also the traits would need adjustments.

I’d say remove shouts as a part of ranger keeping Search and Rescue as a ‘pet’ skill or ‘spirit’ skill for trait related things.

In removing the shout that leave ranger with 3 skill that need replacing Guard, Sick’em and Protect Me.
Guard could be replaced with a trap, maybe the smoke trap from Guild Wars 1 (basically a smoke field that blinds and dazes.)
Replace Sick’em with a skill similar to sharpening stone, but have it be next 5 attack remove a boon.
Lastly Protect Me that is more difficult to replace. I’d say have signet of stone be reworked to take the place of that skill. Maybe Warden’s Signet: Passive increase precision or endurance regain; Active: Recharge the pet skills.

I’ll get to traits in a bit kind of hungry.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Fate.8673

Fate.8673

Brilliant but this would be a COMPLETE overhaul of all our weapon/utility/and even elite skills.

No way ANet will put that much time into the class

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

I think it would really depend on how much harder this would be to do than to fix the pets, if this would prove easier and equally time consuming you know what direction it could go.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: lagrangeify.5641

lagrangeify.5641

What a marvelous idea. Not dumb at all. I’d LOVE to see this as something I could spec into, ie, sacrifice my domain over animals and instead receive their innate spiritual characteristics, maybe represented in the same way as the engineers kits and toolbar.

Well done.

Ain’t gonna happen though.

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

I find working with this base concept an interesting alternative to what I could be post on the forums.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: notebene.3190

notebene.3190

It sounds like a neat idea, but it makes me a little sad. I kinda like my bear following me around.

Now, this is my second character (my Elementalist is my main), and I’m only 40, and I really only use my bear, so maybe because I have too little experience, I’m not understanding why everyone wants to get rid of physical pets?

I only have 5-6 tamed now. I’m looking forward to finding and trying more (though, on the survivability side, other than the bear, I guess I can understand that concern, as they do seem to die rather easily).

Being only 40, what “haven’t” I experienced yet that would also make me get on this band wagon?

It does sound like a well thought out idea, but I’d be sad to see my physical bear, Myrrh, go away.

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

It wouldn’t have to complete remove the trailing ‘pet’ In fact it could still be following the Ranger as a bit of a tell of what you are going against. Maybe a bit translucent, but still a companion.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Azel.4786

Azel.4786

This is a very solid idea, the deaf ears of ANET it will fall into makes me sad, but shouldn’t stop us from dreaming about it.

Anyway, the part I’m not too sure about this is the effect of giving a stat boost from the spirits, sounds like an unfair advantage from the other classes. How about if instead it could work like the idea of F1-F4 having different bonuses depending on the family of pet/animal spirit you working with? For instance, wolf could give you a the power to trigger a rage and power boost, perhaps even having the wolf/dog knockdown ability? Cats could give you a precision boost, perhaps even a camouflage? Seems like it would add a nice level of costumization and power to the ranger.

My honest concerns why this wouldn’t work are: (a) major overhaul of the class; (b) would this give rangers a sizable increase of skills in comparison with other classes, and therefore make it a insanely more versatile class than all others?; © balancing a major overhaul like this would be very difficult.

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Posted by: TheAltarBoy.3176

TheAltarBoy.3176

This is a fairly dumb idea and will never happen but I thought I would share.

Instead of Ranger pets having a physical presence instead make them animal spirits.
The pet itself still has a visible representation just like our utility spirits do now and like our utility spirits they don’t attack or do dmg themselves, instead the spirit of the animal provides use with bonuses based on the animal we have supporting us.
As an example:
Bears give toughness/vitality
Canines give power/vitality
Birds give speed/precision
Cats give precision/power
On top of this they can still provide a unique F2 ability based on pet. For example if you have a raven spirit when you hit F2 the raven shoots forward and blinds your target etc.
Keep pet switching as is allowing us to change between two spirits but with the same cooldown on switching.
Then just fold in the lost pet dps directly into the ranger.

This would accomplish a few things that the ranger pet system currently has problems with.
1. Pet survivability would no longer be a problem
2. The problem with pets unable to hit moving targets would become a non issue
3. Dumb pathing and pets being an aggro magnet would also vanish

I’ve suggested something similar and it should at least be an option.

I love having my pet in PvE sometimes, othertimes it’s a pain.

For example I just did one of the dungeons and I was handicapped because I had two melee pets that couldn’t attack the boss standing on a platform.

I’ve also fought bosses that one shot my pet, I switch pets and it gets two shot. That means I could spend anywhere from 20-60 seconds waiting to switch off of a dead pet.

My player DPS is lower than other classes because the pet is suppose to provide part of my damage. How would other classes feel if, for 30 seconds his damage was just cut in half?

The pets are great in very basic situations but they still need a lot of work. Some people like the idea of the ranger but not the pets. I think both types of play styles should be viable.

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Posted by: DaisyRogers.6837

DaisyRogers.6837

Well written post and Idea. We honestly need more of these as opposed to the more childish versions of impending doom and “I would rather play WoW so I am going to post here and continue playing GW2 anyways posts”.

that being said, honestly don’t want to see this happen to my pet. I love rushing into battle pet at my side as my partner. Not watching over my shoulder waving as I get my kitten kicked in the face. I love the pacing of the ranger and the concept behind it (needs work, we all agree on that here, Devs included).

That being said, I would actually love if they introduced down the road another class, druid that utilized all the pets in this manner. Somebody else mentioned communing with the spirit of the pet (why waste pet skins around the map, don’t even have to make new ones for it). Could be a more magicy class but still play with bows and what not. D&D druids got bows after all.

I play my GW2 ranger like I would play my D&D ranger, the pet is a big time partner for me and I enjoy just how many of our skills foster this relationship as we buff one another (<3 RaO, I’ve gotten pet up to 25 stacks of might in secs with sword, combined with BM and it really becomes awesome). If this is implemented, the ranger would be destroyed as I love to play.

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Posted by: Genlog.4983

Genlog.4983

plz dont remove pets for spirit i love my pets very much
they belong to the ranger do no what i must do with out them

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Posted by: casscain.2450

casscain.2450

I like this idea with pets/animal spirits taking a more supportive role. Relying on our pets’s damage aggro at the moment is difficult and their path finding frustrates me to no end.

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Posted by: Kifyi.6479

Kifyi.6479

Gonna be honest, I flat out hate this idea. I’m a very huge fan of pets and pet classes. If you don’t want a pet, then don’t play a pet class, bottom line. Think I’d quit the game if I lost my ranger pets.

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Posted by: Electro.4173

Electro.4173

A good idea, and one I’ve had to some degree myself, at least as far as the animal spirits (though I never really nailed down what they’d do exactly).

But this is something for a new profession, NOT Ranger. Completely changing Ranger from what it is now would require a ton of work and alienate people who like Ranger as-is. The later being an especially big problem in a game like GW2 where you’re locked into your profession, giving people who disliked the change no option but to lose their character. And even if Anet offered a free class change to all Rangers, that would still require learning a new profession and still mean losing the current Ranger playstyle they liked.

As a new profession like Druid or something? Absolutely, this is a great idea and I would totally roll a character of a profession using a “spirit animal” mechanic. But Ranger needs to stay as it is.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

The ranger is the pet class. Your suggestion for the pet class is… to remove pets? This suggestion is to create a new class, not make changes to the ranger.

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Posted by: Joiry.2504

Joiry.2504

Brilliant but this would be a COMPLETE overhaul of all our weapon/utility/and even elite skills.

No way ANet will put that much time into the class

Except Rangers are pretty much in need of a major overhaul. Anet has too much hubris over its class design and “iterative process” to admit it, but rangers are just a mishmash of ideas thrown together.

Gonna be honest, I flat out hate this idea. I’m a very huge fan of pets and pet classes. If you don’t want a pet, then don’t play a pet class, bottom line. Think I’d quit the game if I lost my ranger pets.

The ranger is the pet class. Your suggestion for the pet class is… to remove pets? This suggestion is to create a new class, not make changes to the ranger.

Its a modern (as in past 10 years) ranger are so definitively a pet class. And its mainly MMOs to blame for this. But rangers, even in the original D&D version, were not a pet class. Its just something that has taken hold in the past so many years. Even in GW1 pets were optional. Rangers are more traditionally the wilderness/hunter/scout archetype. The pet is not necessary (tho can be an optional addition).

Truth is, pet classes are fundamentally broken. When any significant amount of your character’s effectiveness is placed in an AI controlled entity, it breaks the concept of player skill being important. Either the AI is worse than you (usually) and it drags you down, or its equal or better to you (in which case it carries you). Yes, even equal skill AI is carrying you because is x% of your effectiveness that is on autopilot, freeing you up to focus on other things.

The OPs proposal is certainly one way to keep the pet-esque aspect while removing the fundamental flaw of pets (the AI control).

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Posted by: Mesmorise.9740

Mesmorise.9740

This sounds like a fantastic idea!

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Posted by: cargan.5689

cargan.5689

Remove a chunk of our dps and give us a buff of a few stats? Roll a warrior and carry a banner you would be better off.
A petless ranger is efectivly pointless its just a SB thief with out the dps or cool death blossom animation.

Ulfar SOR

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Posted by: Sang.3641

Sang.3641

Remove a chunk of our dps and give us a buff of a few stats? Roll a warrior and carry a banner you would be better off.
A petless ranger is efectivly pointless its just a SB thief with out the dps or cool death blossom animation.

One of the idea is to fold the lost pet DPS back into the ranger weapons/abilities as stated in the original post.
Also ranger weapon abilities and utility skills are different enough from warrior/thief that even without a pet they would still be a different playstyle, with removing the physicality of the pet and leaving the aesthetic by removing a pet that does something and having a spirit pet that just follows us around we would also maintain a visual difference.

For people who really want a physical pet they can drop a trait in a talent line that allows our pets to manifest as physical entities while we get a dmg% reduction while the pet is manifested.

This is all totally hypothetical of course but still fun to discuss it.

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Posted by: Panther Chameleon.8465

Panther Chameleon.8465

Hell yeah, our F2 should perform like any other smooth spell…not like the dodgy ai it is now. I’ve started using two pigs, because 2 extra skills is better than something that rarely works and dies often. But, the only downfall is the moronic idea that we need to summon the item, pick it up, and use it. That’s like three channeling skills for one “meh” ability. IMO the boar/pig f2 should automatically place the item in our inventory. I mean…wtf engineers can swap kits for instant 5 new abilities +200 toughness whenever they want.

" I like to let people talk who like to talk. It makes it

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Posted by: wise eyes lies.2760

wise eyes lies.2760

then rename them shaman

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Posted by: Jay.3284

Jay.3284

/Sign, I’m all for this.

Dungeon Master 8/8 | Fractal 50
80Rng – 80Wa – 80Thief – 80Grd – 80Ele – 80Engi – 80Necro

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Posted by: Sang.3641

Sang.3641

then rename them shaman

I dunno, shaman for me at least brings more of a caster image to mind rather than a melee/bow using wilderness fighter.

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Posted by: Frostfang.5109

Frostfang.5109

I don’t like this idea at all as my PET companion is what makes the ranger unique!

Kima & Co

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Posted by: Daemon.4295

Daemon.4295

It’s great to see creative suggestions for the Ranger profession, but I can’t really see this particular one happening as it suggests a complete overhaul of the Ranger profession mechanic. It would take Anet months to completely rework and balance a profession this way, there are a variety of faster and simpler solutions they can adopt to fix our core problem of overall damage output. You’d be removing the role of the pet as tank and thus completely altering the ranger’s gameplay, the player would instantly draw aggro in PvE and be absorbing 100% of damage. Keep in mind that you’re also removing a second attacker from combat, Anet could buff the Ranger’s damage output to compensate but the player can be CC’d and evaded, whereas pets, by design, are a totally separate source of damage. So essentially we’d just be weaker warriors with some access to traps and a permabuff from spirits. Plus, as a couple of people have already mentioned, a lot of players rolled a Ranger because they like the idea of having a live pet fighting by their side, I’d be really sad if I lost my poor Fern Hound that’s been with me since I was a young Sylvari seedling

Ayana Wenona (Ranger) | Doctor Skorn (Necro) | Electra Lux (Elementalist)
Scarlett Daguer (Thief) | Gritt Bloodstone (Warrior) | Sirius Zand (Guardian)
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Posted by: Batlav.6318

Batlav.6318

it will be ignored by A Net like the don’t know how many other good ideas about how to fix the stupid pets and some of our abilities

SFR

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Posted by: Sang.3641

Sang.3641

I don’t like this idea at all as my PET companion is what makes the ranger unique!

You would still have a graphical representation of your pet just “spiritified” and it would still pull off its special attack. So in essence you have a pet just a different sort and I posted above:
“For people who really want a physical pet they can drop a trait in a talent line that allows our pets to manifest as physical entities while we get a dmg% reduction while the pet is manifested.”

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Posted by: Trollhammer.7439

Trollhammer.7439

people remember to give +1 to the post you like

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Posted by: NaturalPortman.9562

NaturalPortman.9562

That’s an insane amount of coding and basically a complete rework of the ranger class. It’s a good idea but like you said, it will never happen.

(im a girl btw)

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Posted by: Aveneo.2068

Aveneo.2068

“The spirits of the wild welcome you…”

Always wanted to say that

+1 for the suggestion to make the bond between Ranger and animals a more spiritual one instead of physical.

Valiant Aislinn – Aveneo Lightbringer – Shalene Amuriel – Dread Cathulu
Fojja – Vyxxi – Nymmra – Mymmra – Champion of Dwayna .. and more

Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU

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Posted by: Jihoko.3927

Jihoko.3927

I don’t like this idea at all as my PET companion is what makes the ranger unique!

You would still have a graphical representation of your pet just “spiritified” and it would still pull off its special attack. So in essence you have a pet just a different sort and I posted above:
“For people who really want a physical pet they can drop a trait in a talent line that allows our pets to manifest as physical entities while we get a dmg% reduction while the pet is manifested.”

While I don’t think this is a bad idea for a new game where there aren’t already preconceptions about class roles, it’s too late for something like this in GW2. It would certainly work much better mechanically, and much of the support is from us Rangers drooling over the massive DPS (and overall power increase) we’d get as a result of this change.

However, we have to remember when making suggestions that just because a change would make us more powerful and consistent, doesn’t mean it’s good for the game as a whole. Despite the fact that Rangers are the weakest class, they’re also the most played class (at least that’s what I heard). Many players don’t care about the power level, they just want a ranged class w/pet.

Even if you could trait to let the pet attack, it wouldn’t be the same. For one thing, new players wouldn’t have access to this, and those expecting a real pet would be disappointed by the spirits. Many of them might reroll or quit before getting enough trait points, or even knowing trait points exist. The other problem is that this trait would be a blatant power decrease, unless the DPS of the pet isn’t completely transferred over to our attacks.

In fact, for this idea to work at all, we can’t get ALL of our pets DPS incorporated into our regular attacks, or we’d be too powerful. A ranger is a powerful force on stationary targets, our pets do very significant DPS: if all of that was added to our auto-attack we’d be OP. Everyone in support of this idea must be comfortable with the fact that you wouldn’t be getting ALL of your pet’s DPS.

Finally, and most importantly, this change would remove much of the Ranger class’s depth. I get that many Rangers look at their pets as “DPS + F2” already, and so they don’t see themselves as missing out on anything. However, our pets are much more than just DPS and a special attack. Their other 3 attacks are significant too, and give us access to a # of abilities, combo-fields, buffs, and heals.

As someone who really enjoys the diversity offered by the other 3 abilities our pets have, in addition to their variation in stats, attack speed, movement, etc. I would be disappointed by this change. I would much prefer a fix to pet pathing so that our pets aren’t so easily avoided and don’t always miss their attacks on moving targets. They shouldn’t be unblockable, but some improvements to pathing, accuracy, and responsiveness are needed. I don’t think this fix is easy, but I’m not convinced this suggestion is any easier.

tldr
What you’re suggesting is nothing short of a class overhaul: every weapon skill, every trait, every learned skill would have to be revisited. With the move away from a corporeal pet with its own stats, “weapon skills,” and activated abilities that provide a wide range of boons, conditions, combo fields, tanking ability, etc. much of the depth of the Ranger class would be lost in the process.

Again, it’s not a “bad” idea, but it’s simply unfeasible at this stage in the game. It would upset more people than most here might imagine and the workload is out of proportion to the possible benefits, especially when improvements to pet AI/pathing/responsiveness would have the same result without abolishing the unique interplay of pet combat.

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Posted by: Syko.3726

Syko.3726

It’s really an awesome idea, would make rangers actually fun to play !

I really hope devs consider this..

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

Gonna be honest, I flat out hate this idea. I’m a very huge fan of pets and pet classes. If you don’t want a pet, then don’t play a pet class, bottom line. Think I’d quit the game if I lost my ranger pets.

I wouldn’t quit, but my struggle between picking ranger and mesmer sure as hell wouldn’t exist…

I don’t like the idea at all, i rolled a ranger because i wanted to be a Druid/shaman sort of beast master, i have my pet, i have my spirits, why should i merge the two together? that’d be stupid, not to mention we’d have to have EVERYTHING reworked.

If i wanted a fake pet i’d be playing a minion master necromancer with his abominations, not picking the ranger.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Panther Chameleon.8465

Panther Chameleon.8465

Yes. If they were smart our pets wouldn’t even have a basic attack, and would basically just be used for the F2 (which would possibly be ground targeted depending on the skill and would cast a lot faster and smoother.) At least in pvp our pets should be more of an ornament, with just the F2 attack. However, since our pets would be a lot weaker we could justify a damage buff to all ranger weapons and shorter cooldowns.

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Posted by: Volundarhus.7815

Volundarhus.7815

I picked ranger because I like the distraction that the pet provides.

I’m not a big fan of this idea.

The only problem I have with pets is the fact that I cannot get every pet, white raven, black moa, rainbow jellyfish… that is a problem.. fire the guy that had that idea.

Dragonbrand – Dumaresq
Loch Ness Monster (nnnf)

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Posted by: Varani.9207

Varani.9207

Great idea. Considering the fact that pets are useless in so many situations, they should be removed. IF they COULD attack moving targets and IF they weren´t that squishy… Well the moving-targets-thing seems to be something which cannot be fixed over night. I just don´t understand why they implemented them the way they are right now…

Mondsucht [MS] Kodash Vragni – Ranger
Charrov – Engineer

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Posted by: Da Poolp.6809

Da Poolp.6809

Great idea. Considering the fact that pets are useless in so many situations, they should be removed. IF they COULD attack moving targets and IF they weren´t that squishy… Well the moving-targets-thing seems to be something which cannot be fixed over night. I just don´t understand why they implemented them the way they are right now…

It’s not just our pet, but all mobs in the game.

@OP: I hope they will never do that :x

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Posted by: Gun Devil.2078

Gun Devil.2078

Best suggestion I have seen yet. Stays true to the professions persona and is more stylish than just a minion type pet which Ranger types in every game seem to be type cast. This would be a very nice, refreshing and welcome (by me at least) change if it were ever implemented.

+1

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Posted by: zippo burntfur.9307

zippo burntfur.9307

That’s an insane amount of coding and basically a complete rework of the ranger class. It’s a good idea but like you said, it will never happen.

They reworked the Dervish class, and some major aspect’s of the elementalist class in GW1, so I don’t see why they couldn’t do it here if the classes warranted it.

“We don’t need to make gear treadmills”
Colin Johanson on how arenanet measures success

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Posted by: DreamOfACure.4382

DreamOfACure.4382

So, it’d be like the Guardian’s spirit-weapons, except with more versatility.

I freaking love it

The best part being they’re indestructible, so you don’t have to worry about them being killed and your DPS being hampered.
Instead, they could be weak or bursty, and Rangers can have their weapon damage buffed to standard levels.

“Bleeding, Poison, Confusion, Torment, they all look delightful on you.”

Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~

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Posted by: kitsuneKyo.6824

kitsuneKyo.6824

i love this idea
why didnt i think about that. this is just amazing.
that would make the ranger so much more awesome.D

<3

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Posted by: Linguistically Inept.6583

Linguistically Inept.6583

i dont see it happening… would love it if they introduced some second tier classes (like some other MMOs and this was an option for ranger

Desolation: 80 ranger [Nightwither], 80 necro [Dusk Grimsoul]
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Posted by: Gun Devil.2078

Gun Devil.2078

That’s an insane amount of coding and basically a complete rework of the ranger class. It’s a good idea but like you said, it will never happen.

It wouldn’t be as much doom and gloom coding compared to the perpetual patch/fix cycle that will happen with months waiting and Rangers QQ’ing.

As far as skill like shouts they could change them to temporarily manifest the pet (like a Guardian’s Spirit weapon) to do what they currently do and then return to the spirit world.
The F2 would still be the unique pet attack just represented by a ghost pet materializing and conducting it and vanishing after.
The type of pet you have would buff your stats to help fold the lost DPS into the actual ranger.
Pets would be more associated with certain weapon sets and give a spirit manifestation/buff to certain attacks much like the current animations with greatsword attacks like Maul, just more of them.
It’s a solid idea the OP has and within the realm of reason to do. Hell the lost shore event would have required more time and coding than this idea would.