Guild Wars 2

Tooltip: Unleash a Divine Wind that let’s you sacrifice 70 percent of your health by shooting at retaliation-spam zergs while doing minimal damage.

The Rooted Sacrificer

Well we could always just skip the middle man and the ability could function as follows.

Barrage- 4 second cast- Immediately Spike yourself , saving your opponent the time it takes to run over to do it along with the humiliation of knowing youre being laughed at.

Joking aside. i see alot of LB rangers just wipe themselves out with retal and confusion. is there not a way to cancel the ability once started?

you can cancel it. tip to survive your own barrage : BEFOR that use troll ungment.
but there is a funny thing about barrage. everybody think at the first time its an arrow cart

The worst part is I’m taking more damage than I am dishing out.

It’s 1k ticks on berserker gear while my ele is landing 4k meteors in berserker and 4k ice spikes and my necro with marks is dishing easily over 3k damage a second in conditions.

And it’s our only ranged aoe on a whopping 25 sec cd. What the hell.

i think they will update it. we got o lot of love.

Am I really the only ranger playing who doesn’t have a problem with retaliation? Honestly, there’s another thread up that I’ve been posting in where someone is complaining because if they’re specced as glass and unload rapid fire on a guardian with retaliation, they suffer damage. WTF people?

Either 1) learn to check your bloody target before unloading a skill (single target, obviously) or 2) tap a direction key to cancel the channel and get a reduced cooldown on the skill if you start to eat retaliation damage. This isn’t neurosurgery.

The damage done by barrage is sub par, anyway, unless you use a sigil of fire . So, you can kill yourself while actually killing / tag WvW zerglings .

stale.9785:

Am I really the only ranger playing who doesn’t have a problem with retaliation? Honestly, there’s another thread up that I’ve been posting in where someone is complaining because if they’re specced as glass and unload rapid fire on a guardian with retaliation, they suffer damage. WTF people?

Either 1) learn to check your bloody target before unloading a skill (single target, obviously) or 2) tap a direction key to cancel the channel and get a reduced cooldown on the skill if you start to eat retaliation damage. This isn’t neurosurgery.

Retaliation is up most of the time in any group that knows what it’s doing. So your “choice” here boils down to shoot and kill yourself or don’t shoot and let the enemy kill you. When the enemy can three shot you you don’t have time to look for icons over his head you have to act and hope for the best. Hesitate a microsecond and you will be dead before you get your Rapid Fire off, because it is useless at close range against anyone with the sense to run behind you or circle kite you.

There shouldn’t be a penalty for shooting people, especially not one that does more damage to you than them.

check every icon in a zerg befor barrage… good idea! next time i will ask vizunah to stop for a minute and dont move.

When you do ask the wvw zerg to stop while you check their icons, please take screenshots if they do

That said, it’s not so much retal that bothers me with barrage as the root. If you stand rooted for the entire duration of the skill, every opponent in miles will have to be afk or asleep. You pass on the chance to survive and you won’t kill anything bigger than a rabbit with barrage. So either the damage should actually go to where it’s dangerous for opponents or the root should be changed.

stale.9785:

Am I really the only ranger playing who doesn’t have a problem with retaliation? Honestly, there’s another thread up that I’ve been posting in where someone is complaining because if they’re specced as glass and unload rapid fire on a guardian with retaliation, they suffer damage. WTF people?

Either 1) learn to check your bloody target before unloading a skill (single target, obviously) or 2) tap a direction key to cancel the channel and get a reduced cooldown on the skill if you start to eat retaliation damage. This isn’t neurosurgery.

man you aren’t the only one…
the problem with retailation is that 80% of players are running a zerker build (not only in ranger category) so get a 1-2k retailation is a very bad thing…

but i can say that with my balanced build i can easily start my barrage without care of retailation on enemy simply because i deal 5k+ damage and get only 1-2k damage (over 18k hp) which isn’t an huge damage compared to mine… and anyway i get troll unguent so i can always spam anything (when under a tower for exemple) and still survive (because of the 850 hp per second) and i can still get regeneration from pet ability and party or i can simply interrupt my barrage if something is going wrong.

anyway if you are talking about a normal group vs group fight there wouldn’t be problems because as in a group there are chars which put on retailation there are also chars which remove boons (aoe) … but we aren’t those… so wait… or spam… but avoid full zerker builds

and someone said that confusion is another problem… but it isn’t becuase it damages us only at skill cast not for every arrow shooted.

ps: if you want to avoid more damage toggle piercing arrows… that will lower your aoe dps but increase your survivability when you use barrage over a retailed group

lol I can relate to this too well, full zerker I HAVE to use the food that gives you health when you crit, otherwise I will literally down myself when I hit 60 man zerg with barrage…. the heal when crit food helps alot though if you have high crit.

Paz Shadow.9715:

lol I can relate to this too well, full zerker I HAVE to use the food that gives you health when you crit, otherwise I will literally down myself when I hit 60 man zerg with barrage…. the heal when crit food helps alot though if you have high crit.

oh yes man that will be a great solution

i have 3k armor, but that not reduce retail. ok u run a health-healing power build. u will survive, but retail will dammage that 10k+ on you and you deal less damage :p 5-600 to a target.

As it turns out… Magi, Soldiers, and Carrion gear (oh look the 3 i use lol), have next to no issue against retal because hey, vitality is awesome vs condis and retal.

braces himself for “Those Sets are terrible!” posts

Durzlla.6295:

As it turns out… Magi, Soldiers, and Carrion gear (oh look the 3 i use lol), have next to no issue against retal because hey, vitality is awesome vs condis and retal.

braces himself for “Those Sets are terrible!” posts

Yeah, wear a full PVT set just to avoid damage from retaliation. That’s a solution.

How about this for a solution: get rid of retaliation. It’s stupid to punish people for shooting the enemy while rewarding them for being shot.

I like my solution better, don’t you?

Retaliation currently punishes every class for using multi-hitting AoEs in a zerg. Mesmer Blurred Frenzy/Feedback (reflected projectiles count as yours), engi granades, even guardian Whirling Wrath can easily kill the user.

There needs to be some kind of internal CD to retal (like, you can’t get more than 5 ticks/sec from it) at least in WvW only. Won’t change anything for 1v1/smallscale but nerfs retal for zerg fights.

Iavra.8510:

Retaliation currently punishes every class for using multi-hitting AoEs in a zerg. Mesmer Blurred Frenzy/Feedback (reflected projectiles count as yours), engi granades, even guardian Whirling Wrath can easily kill the user.

There needs to be some kind of internal CD to retal (like, you can’t get more than 5 ticks/sec from it) at least in WvW only. Won’t change anything for 1v1/smallscale but nerfs retal for zerg fights.

I have a few questions about this. Why nerf retaliation? As it stands now, it’s a mechanism to defend against AoE’s in larger group and it doesn’t affect AoE damage from siege weapons. So nerfing relatiation would only promote mindless spamming AoE’s instead of mindlessly spamming auto-attack. Also how else would you promote more active (small scale) play in WvW? As it stands now you either hold up in your tower and camp AC’s or go with the blob if you want to be succesful at higher tiers.

To me the only real problems with Barrage are the root in place and the last decrease in damage being too much.

JorneMormel.9850:

Iavra.8510:

Retaliation currently punishes every class for using multi-hitting AoEs in a zerg. Mesmer Blurred Frenzy/Feedback (reflected projectiles count as yours), engi granades, even guardian Whirling Wrath can easily kill the user.

There needs to be some kind of internal CD to retal (like, you can’t get more than 5 ticks/sec from it) at least in WvW only. Won’t change anything for 1v1/smallscale but nerfs retal for zerg fights.

I have a few questions about this. Why nerf retaliation? As it stands now, it’s a mechanism to defend against AoE’s in larger group and it doesn’t affect AoE damage from siege weapons. So nerfing relatiation would only promote mindless spamming AoE’s instead of mindlessly spamming auto-attack. Also how else would you promote more active (small scale) play in WvW? As it stands now you either hold up in your tower and camp AC’s or go with the blob if you want to be succesful at higher tiers.

To me the only real problems with Barrage are the root in place and the last decrease in damage being too much.

Retaliation hurts classes like longbow ranger whose main attacks are channeled, so it hits some classes harder than others. It encourages mindless zergs and makes it harder for small groups to fight big groups because big groups will have tons of retaliation up and will be able to keep it up longer making it extremely painful to use aoe against them. Retaliation does not punish you for “mindless” use of aoe, it punishes you for “any” use of aoe, even when that use is tactically appropriate.

Anet seems to favor OP classes running around in massive OP zergs ROFLstomping outnumbered and outclassed groups rather than having combat be balanced and challenging for all. The only thing worse than being wiped by an unstoppable, all powerful zerg you can’t shoot at without dying is being in that unstoppable, all-powerful zerg, where you can kitten little groups with massive aoe and they can’t fight back. The former can be challenging if frustrating but the latter is just boring as hell.

@Cuch you stop a Zerg by putting a ballista or 5 through it when they break down your door, or with catapults, or arrow carts, or trebs or any other siege weapon, you know, those things immune to retal damage and have larger AoE cap?

JorneMormel.9850:

I have a few questions about this. Why nerf retaliation? As it stands now, it’s a mechanism to defend against AoE’s in larger group and it doesn’t affect AoE damage from siege weapons. So nerfing relatiation would only promote mindless spamming AoE’s instead of mindlessly spamming auto-attack.

Firing AOE doesn’t equal to mindless spamming. Pray tell, what’s a proper way to fire an AOE into a zerg? Click on all targets to ensure there’s no retaliation before firing? How does that work in WvW?

What you’re basically saying its, don’t use your AOE if you don’t want the feed back.

Say it back to yourself to see how stupid it is: Don’t fire AOEs into a group.

The only thing mindless, is the ensuing meta with blobs wearing PVT all hitting 11111111111 while on retaliation where there’s basically nothing you could do unless you have a bigger zerg or have multiple arrow carts.

Durzlla.6295:

@Cuch you stop a Zerg by putting a ballista or 5 through it when they break down your door, or with catapults, or arrow carts, or trebs or any other siege weapon, you know, those things immune to retal damage and have larger AoE cap?

And when you run into them in open field, you can call a time out and then build the said 5 ballistas. Or just retreat back to the nearest keep and repeat step one.

Seriously, do you even WvW?

stale.9785:

Am I really the only ranger playing who doesn’t have a problem with retaliation? Honestly, there’s another thread up that I’ve been posting in where someone is complaining because if they’re specced as glass and unload rapid fire on a guardian with retaliation, they suffer damage. WTF people?

Either 1) learn to check your bloody target before unloading a skill (single target, obviously) or 2) tap a direction key to cancel the channel and get a reduced cooldown on the skill if you start to eat retaliation damage. This isn’t neurosurgery.

I better make sure the zerg fully loads on my screen before I unleash my AoE as well…

Ok, I stand corrected. Apparently it is brain surgery.

hyjaxxx.1584:

Joking aside. i see alot of LB rangers just wipe themselves out with retal and confusion. is there not a way to cancel the ability once started?

You can cancel it, but the problem is the damage portion of the skill is delayed. When I tested it earlier in the year, it was something like sec 0-5 you spend channeling the skill. The arrows start falling on the target area at sec 2, and continue falling until sec 9. Playing with it recently it feels like they shortened the channel time and lengthened the falling time. I haven’t timed it lately so I don’t know if that’s the case, that’s just my gut feeling.

Anyway, the end result is that even if you immediately notice the retaliation and instantly cancel the skill, you’ll already be halfway (2.5 sec) into the channel (factoring in normal human reaction time). So the arrows will continue to fall for half their duration (sec 2 to sec 5.5). And you’ll continue to take retaliation damage for another 3.5 sec. And that’s the best case. If you’re any slower with your reaction, you’ll take retaliation damage for even longer.

I understand why they made retaliation apply to ranged attacks – to make it fairer. But this is one of the stupid problems it causes. Every other game I’ve played has simply made retaliation effects not work at range to avoid this issue with delayed damage (usually due to arrow flight time). It makes no logical sense either. The arrow is no longer physically connected to the bow, much less the archer. yet somehow the magical effect knows where the arrow was fired from, and seeks out and damages the person who fired it?

Rapid fire has a similar problem (particularly if you get confusion dropped on you). The only way to stop it firing is to interrupt it with another skill (edit: or dodge), or to turn your character so you’re no longer facing the target. The usual tricks of clicking the ground to lose your target, or hitting esc don’t work. (This is also the same reason rapid fire can track stealthed players – every silver lining has a cloud.)

Nuka Cola.8520:

The Rooted Sacrificer

HAHAHA!! ^

Cuchullain.3104:

Durzlla.6295:

As it turns out… Magi, Soldiers, and Carrion gear (oh look the 3 i use lol), have next to no issue against retal because hey, vitality is awesome vs condis and retal.

braces himself for “Those Sets are terrible!” posts

Yeah, wear a full PVT set just to avoid damage from retaliation. That’s a solution.

How about this for a solution: get rid of retaliation. It’s stupid to punish people for shooting the enemy while rewarding them for being shot.

I like my solution better, don’t you?

The Outsider God will defeat your ranger with three different professions. Do not question him.

Paz Shadow.9715:

lol I can relate to this too well, full zerker I HAVE to use the food that gives you health when you crit, otherwise I will literally down myself when I hit 60 man zerg with barrage…. the heal when crit food helps alot though if you have high crit.

I find the heal on kill works much better since you will likely get tags on GCs that will die early enough to give you health when it matters the most.

Don’t use a longbow?
some wepones are not a good choice for different situations. Longbows are not good against a large zerg with lots of a guards in it. If you want bags use an axe and run through the middle of the zerg, dodge rolling through the melee train. If you want to sit in a tower build an arrow cart and use it.

Ohh and leave your zerker gear at home when entering WvWvW, and bring some defensive stats. you hate it when a bunker joins you dungeon group.

Just because the game doesn’t let you play exactly the way you want to, doest mean you should not adapt to the game and it current mechanics.

Eggyokeo.9705:

Don’t use a longbow?
some wepones are not a good choice for different situations. Longbows are not good against a large zerg with lots of a guards in it. If you want bags use an axe and run through the middle of the zerg, dodge rolling through the melee train. If you want to sit in a tower build an arrow cart and use it.

Ohh and leave your zerker gear at home when entering WvWvW, and bring some defensive stats. you hate it when a bunker joins you dungeon group.

Just because the game doesn’t let you play exactly the way you want to, doest mean you should not adapt to the game and it current mechanics.

Berserker is perfectly viable in WvW, staff eles run it perfectly fine as do most ranged because every team has the 6-7 guardians and the warriors and the d/d eles running knights+valk cc’ing the crap out of touching the backline while the backline spikes.

Zenith.7301:

Berserker is perfectly viable in WvW, staff eles run it perfectly fine as do most ranged because every team has the 6-7 guardians and the warriors and the d/d eles running knights+valk cc’ing the crap out of touching the backline while the backline spikes.

Those must be the guys that i’m constantly rezzing while f spamming to pick up my bags. Any commander worth there salt will target the back line/tail first to lower the numbers that they’re fighting against. A zerker pug who is not in voice chat dies and rallys the downed opponents is one of the most frustrating thing for a organized team and is the main reason why alot of guilds run tag less. but that’s getting a little to off topic.

having 30 points in WS and using bark skin as saved my life a lot in general, i don’t know whether it reduced retaliation, i have never know retaliation to be any major problem for me.

Guilds running tagless is an odd way to play wvw. Do they still communicate with other guilds on coms? On jade quarry we have a tight knit community, in fact, we pushed out selfish guilds that refuse to command or tag up.

most if not all of the guilds that i know that go tagless still use the main server voice chat so are easy enough to party up a tag and follow, and still comunicat with other commanders. it just to stop that randoms and what no for mindlessly following the blue dot

Eggyokeo.9705:

Don’t use a longbow?
some wepones are not a good choice for different situations. Longbows are not good against a large zerg with lots of a guards in it. If you want bags use an axe and run through the middle of the zerg, dodge rolling through the melee train. If you want to sit in a tower build an arrow cart and use it.

If long ranged weapon with AoE works bad for massive battles, like WvW, it’s omission of game design. Like if anti-tank rocket launcher works poor against tanks in a video game about modern war.
Also, about retaliation. Lot games contain such things, but I never saw them hurt attacker more than his own attack hurts attacked. Look, if there is berserker gear that grants wearer lot of attack and poor defense, there should be class… eh, sorry, they call it “profession”… there should be profession utilizes that gear well. Maybe profession with long ranged weapon and nice abilities to escape, like ranger? Oops, nope.
On the other hand, if there is really long ranged weapon there should be suitable gear for it. Wear tanky gear for longbow? For kitten sake, than why i even carry longbow? i just dont need such range if i wear tanky gear.

Ghertu.7096:

Eggyokeo.9705:

Don’t use a longbow?
some wepones are not a good choice for different situations. Longbows are not good against a large zerg with lots of a guards in it. If you want bags use an axe and run through the middle of the zerg, dodge rolling through the melee train. If you want to sit in a tower build an arrow cart and use it.

If long ranged weapon with AoE works bad for massive battles, like WvW, it’s omission of game design. Like if anti-tank rocket launcher works poor against tanks in a video game about modern war.
Also, about retaliation. Lot games contain such things, but I never saw them hurt attacker more than his own attack hurts attacked. Look, if there is berserker gear that grants wearer lot of attack and poor defense, there should be class… eh, sorry, they call it “profession”… there should be profession utilizes that gear well. Maybe profession with long ranged weapon and nice abilities to escape, like ranger? Oops, nope.
On the other hand, if there is really long ranged weapon there should be suitable gear for it. Wear tanky gear for longbow? For kitten sake, than why i even carry longbow? i just dont need such range if i wear tanky gear.

I’m not disagreeing with what a longbow in theory should and should not be before, i’m just saying that what people think a longbow (or any weapon) is for just judging by its name is irrelevant, we are presented with a set of mechanics and it is up to us to utilize/adapt/exploit them, not try to fit a square peg in a round hole and cry on a forum about it not fitting.

So firing a longbow in to a Blob for a distance whilst only have offensive traits and offensive gear, doesn’t work, try something else instead of giving up and whinging. Maybe put on some cleric gear and equip some Regen skills and traits so the retaliation gets moped up as its dealt to you, at the end of the channel you should only be down a small amount of health instead of alot.

Just out of curiosity what happens of if you dodge roll at the end of the channel do you still keep taking damage as that arrow are still hitting?

I don’t think the issue lies with retaliation, I think the issue lies with not having any reliable ways as a ranger to remove retaliation. Boon Removal/Punishment is one of the biggest features of a lot of successful power builds (the other being poison access to suppress healing on bunker, for bunker buster style builds), and rangers are in desperate need of it.