Guild Wars 2

So HoD went up a tier and I hit a brick wall with roaming again condi everything type specs. While obviously my weakness is Healing Spring being only condi removal what are some gameplay changes that I can employ to avoid getting stacked with condi in the first place. Particularly p/d thieves. If they go Shadow Refuge I know I can expect near full hp and a pistol burst. Should I simply run to create distance for my own reset or is there something else I can do?

https://youtu.be/2bXxjuX23qI

More condi removal for sure and some more defensive gear, imo. You are quite squishy and the thief burst is hitting for too much, in other words, the build lacks sustain. Can you post it with gw2skills editor?

It’d be extremely helpful to actually see what build you’re using. Currently it seems all over the place, with traps without trapper runes and geomancy on gs without any condi dmg. It doesn’t seem like you’re dishing out a lot of damage either, which makes it kind of a curious choice. I personally use full zerker 6 6 0 2 0 lb/gs with HaO, LR, SoR, SoS, and binding roots and I don’t usually have issues with a condi thief. If you’re finding yourself being overwhelmed by condis, why not just swap traits to take SotF? Additional fury and ability to cleanse 2 condis when using any survival skill is pretty nice.

Based on the video it just seems like you panic when the thief goes SR and don’t really know what to do to counter it.

If you see a thief go SR, I typically just start a timer in my head and depending on the thief’s playstyle I know what I am going to do to counter. If you’re losing the fight just create space with gs #3 and reset. Otherwise I typically keep lb out and after a number of seconds of them sitting in stealth I toss #5 down around me to discourage close range engage without being slowed and damaged. If the thief is condi, just be ready to do a quick weapon swap to gs block and you mitigate the majority of their burst pretty easily. Hitting good knockbacks is also key against the thieves (and any class that wants to get close).

Besides what you do, controlling what your pet does is also a major bonus. A good p/d will use the pet as a free CnD target that can’t dodge so microing it properly helps a lot. Also using pets with some sort of control ability pets a lot especially immobs against condi thieves since you can always outrange them when they’re immobed.

As far as the number of Maguuma condi roamers goes I don’t think Mag has a larger number than any other server. The majority of people I see on Mag are using power while roaming it appears and the video you posted supports this. The only real condi player you meet is the p/d thief at the beginning. A swap of builds would probably help a lot, since the current build just doesn’t seem optimal in any way to me. Doesn’t have burst mitigation, doesn’t have condi mitigation, doesn’t have high armor to tank, and doesn’t have high burst to counter pressure.

Try Survival Ranger or using Sword/Dagger instead of Greatsword.

Personally I roll a full Rabid Sword/Torch Axe/Dagger trapper build and most condi builds have a hard time with me, including P/D Thieves. I simply have too many evades and kiting potential with sword and dagger is just too high for them to land a good burst on me. And that’s without having active condition removals as my only source of condition management is Empathetic Bond.

First, a big issue is your build. Your traps were doing terrible damage and wasting valuable utility slots. You could be slotting Signets, or traited survival skills for more condi removal and more useful skills.

Second, if you are fighting a pure condi anything and you pop healing spring, make sure you stay in it. It removes a condition with every pulse as long as you are in it.

Lastly, try to rotate your skills so you have at least 1 big hitter off cooldown when you know a thief is about to drop refuge. Point blank shot is my favorite to knock him out of the refuge and reveal him but barrage, rapid fire, wolf fear, or maul are also good choices. If you can’t get any of those off then run and get out of combat so you can slot sic ’em, or if you really want to kitten them off just drop a stealth trap and then laugh and laugh.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Try Survival Ranger or using Sword/Dagger instead of Greatsword.

Personally I roll a full Rabid Sword/Torch Axe/Dagger trapper build and most condi builds have a hard time with me, including P/D Thieves. I simply have too many evades and kiting potential with sword and dagger is just too high for them to land a good burst on me. And that’s without having active condition removals as my only source of condition management is Empathetic Bond.

For power builds GS is a much better weapon against thieves, You see them enter stealth for a backstab you use counter attack, swoop, hilt bash, maul. That combo will take out most thieves, if they are still up you can swap to longbow and PBS, rapid fire them the rest of the way down.

1 hand sword ends up leaping you in random directions when they go into stealth. It works great in a condi build because you can condi bomb them and then just kite them around but a power build against a thief needs the CC and burst.

I was hoping for more advice on avoiding condi stacks. I will focus more on denying p/d strike from stealth with preemptive wolf fear, gs block and see how far that will take me.

I am playing the build I am playing because it is fun to me. It also takes me where I want to go in game. I do not meerly duel. I’m not opposed to change but its unlikely I will ever go back to signets. I may try trapper runes if I cannot avoid condi stacks enough. I may drop flame trap for muddy terrain once we get 3 full trait lines. I used to do hydro,leeching sigils on gs but swapped leeching for geomancy cause it looks pretty and more bleeding for camp stacks.

I will probably roam again tonight. I will record every fight against condi build and see if I need to make vid. Note, I did not record every fight on reset night nor did I add all the ones I did record to vid and I’m sorry about that. I did kinda suggest vid would be full of condi but it ended up only having one clip with first thief. That guy killed me like 10 times and I only got him once. Came across condi engi and mesmers as well.

Oh is it actually possible to dodge shadow shot reactively and not preemptively? That skill is so hard counter to gs block ;-(

Justine.6351:

I was hoping for more advice on avoiding condi stacks. I will focus more on denying p/d strike from stealth with preemptive wolf fear, gs block and see how far that will take me.

I am playing the build I am playing because it is fun to me. It also takes me where I want to go in game. I do not meerly duel. I’m not opposed to change but its unlikely I will ever go back to signets. I may try trapper runes if I cannot avoid condi stacks enough. I may drop flame trap for muddy terrain once we get 3 full trait lines. I used to do hydro,leeching sigils on gs but swapped leeching for geomancy cause it looks pretty and more bleeding for camp stacks.

I will probably roam again tonight. I will record every fight against condi build and see if I need to make vid. Note, I did not record every fight on reset night nor did I add all the ones I did record to vid and I’m sorry about that. I did kinda suggest vid would be full of condi but it ended up only having one clip with first thief. That guy killed me like 10 times and I only got him once. Came across condi engi and mesmers as well.

Hate to tell you man, but if you’re asking for advice on forums about fighting specific specs and having trouble against those specs and yet you don’t want to change your build from something that truly isn’t that great against well anything then you have no one to blame but yourself. A component of your build is being used “because it looks pretty.” What? Play how you want to play, but don’t ask for help and then refuse to listen to good and valid points about your current biggest weakness. Also, the comments aren’t about dueling. I legit can’t think of a single situation as a power ranger where I would prefer your spec over any other option.

Now if its fun for you, that’s good and keep it up. But the fact that you’re complaining about those pesky roamers who kill you seems to imply that it isn’t as much fun as you’re claiming and perhaps could be improved by actually listening to the advice.

And shadowshot can be countered pretty much by knowing the timing of stealth and seeing the projectile that is being shot through the air. Pretty much counting to 3 and dodging will counter shadowshot from most thieves when they come out of stealth.

Helly.2597:

Justine.6351:

I was hoping for more advice on avoiding condi stacks. I will focus more on denying p/d strike from stealth with preemptive wolf fear, gs block and see how far that will take me.

I am playing the build I am playing because it is fun to me. It also takes me where I want to go in game. I do not meerly duel. I’m not opposed to change but its unlikely I will ever go back to signets. I may try trapper runes if I cannot avoid condi stacks enough. I may drop flame trap for muddy terrain once we get 3 full trait lines. I used to do hydro,leeching sigils on gs but swapped leeching for geomancy cause it looks pretty and more bleeding for camp stacks.

I will probably roam again tonight. I will record every fight against condi build and see if I need to make vid. Note, I did not record every fight on reset night nor did I add all the ones I did record to vid and I’m sorry about that. I did kinda suggest vid would be full of condi but it ended up only having one clip with first thief. That guy killed me like 10 times and I only got him once. Came across condi engi and mesmers as well.

Hate to tell you man, but if you’re asking for advice on forums about fighting specific specs and having trouble against those specs and yet you don’t want to change your build from something that truly isn’t that great against well anything then you have no one to blame but yourself. A component of your build is being used “because it looks pretty.” What? Play how you want to play, but don’t ask for help and then refuse to listen to good and valid points about your current biggest weakness. Also, the comments aren’t about dueling. I legit can’t think of a single situation as a power ranger where I would prefer your spec over any other option.

Now if its fun for you, that’s good and keep it up. But the fact that you’re complaining about those pesky roamers who kill you seems to imply that it isn’t as much fun as you’re claiming and perhaps could be improved by actually listening to the advice.

The advice I’m asking for is avoiding condi stack burst. Not eating condi stack burst and then having people rewrite my build to remove condi stack burst because they don’t have the skill to avoid condi stack burst then write advice rewriting my build and then getting mad because I refused advice to rewrite my build in favor of advice to avoid condi stack burst. I’m sorry if you don’t appreciate my lack of appreciation for advice rewriting a build that I find fun that I am indeed willing to change if it = same or more fun and effectiveness.

Sorry I’m out of time or I would write more.

best advise i can give is to dodge right when you see the thief reopen on you with the pistol sneak attack.

You will negate 4/5 of the sneak attack bleed stacks from just one dodge.

P.S. – your fellow ranger players have giving a lot of misplaced advice, it is apparent to me that none of them actually ever solo roamed in WvW gameplay.

Justine.6351:

The advice I’m asking for is avoiding condi stack burst. Not eating condi stack burst and then having people rewrite my build to remove condi stack burst because they don’t have the skill to avoid condi stack burst then write advice rewriting my build and then getting mad because I refused advice to rewrite my build in favor of advice to avoid condi stack burst. I’m sorry if you don’t appreciate my lack of appreciation for advice rewriting a build that I find fun that I am indeed willing to change if it = same or more fun and effectiveness.

Sorry I’m out of time or I would write more.

Well I gave a bunch of matchup advice in the first comment. The reason people are looking at the build and giving the advice for that is because its the easiest thing to change and see a dramatic improvement.

You want my gameplay advice? You’re eating bursts because you’re wasting dodges and don’t know your matchups nearly well enough to get away with using that build. You waste dodges not knowing the timings of thieves coming out of stealth and panic when they enter into stealth causes a large amount of cd wasting. Dodging is your friend. For condi thief, the sneak attack from stealth can be pretty much full dodged if you simply dodge right as the first hit is put on you and then you can combo into a gs block to mitigate their next move.

You’re asking for us to talk for improvements and the build is the easiest aspect. Otherwise I’d recommend rolling a thief and putting 100 hours into it to learn how it plays and then transfer that knowledge back to ranger while you fight them. To me currently I just see someone who doesn’t know the proper techniques for fighting (and not just thieves) due to lack of knowledge of the matchups.

And to the guy above me, that’s a ridiculous claim and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

To avoid the burst I’d still recommend changing your build. The best defense is a good offense. The minimum you could do is throw on some trapper runes so you aren’t a sitting duck.

An added benefit of trapper runes is most condi rangers are terrible players and still use auto targeting, half of them will end up firing at an eagle griffin or something.

If you are in 1 of the 2 places in WvW where there aren’t a dozen ambients or npc’s running around you should put your pet on passive and kite around so the thief has nothing to c&d off of.

1 Thing you can change pretty easily to avoid alot of damage from p/d thiefs is just throwing in a Sigil of Cleansing on every weapon set, you’ll lose a tiny tad of damage that’s for sure, but since p/d thiefs do their main damage through bleeding, and probably confusion if perplex a sigil of cleansing could actually do the trick for you.

If you don’t want to do that it’s just like Xtinct sais. when you see pistol stealth attack let yourself get hit by the first 1-2 shots then dodge or GS block. they are revealed and you only have 1 or 2 stacks of bleeding on you instead of 5 because you panic dodged too much before.
Oh, and you could probably just use food. -%condi duration

What is your build? it would really help us to help you and even if you don’t want to change and have fun with what you got there might be small helpful changes to make that doesn’t really change your play at all, watching the video it’s clear you just need more practise too, you don’t seem to command your pet outside of the F2 for one or keep track of their health, you could have used NPC mobs or pets to stealth multiple times in the video instead of waiting to get hit by your opponent first, as others pointed out staying in your healing spring will clear conditions each pulse not only when you first use it many times you just put it down and ran out for no reason another trick is to swoop from the back end of the spring for double leapfinishers, I think a few times you also tried knockback with your back to your opponent while running that will do nothing but put it on full CD it seems like you panic when you do that and only practise will help against it.

Those are a few tips & tricks but I think you should post your build if you want more than that.

Is pistol sneak attack main source of conditions? Is that most of the danger?

Hi there. After watching your video several times. I feel that your build in conjunction with your unfamiliarity with proper ranger placement is your main problem.

First thing I saw right off the bat is you swapped pets the second you got in combat,causing a huge cool down for no reason when you could have switched as soon as you saw your foe,allowing you an extra swap.

Also after taking huge damage from the thief you sit right outside his SR giving him a chance to reset and reopen at his leisure.

I’ll leave the build deficiencies out of the reply because you’ve already gotten great advice on that.

At the end of the day a properly played ranger with a viable build can fight two thieves all day long without fear of being downed.

one last imho thought…while you feel your build is viable your video clearly shows otherwise.best thing to do is take some ideas you’ve gotten here and mix it with “your build” and keep doing that till you dont get creamed,chances are right about the time you stop getting creamed will be the time you’ve made use of most of these suggestions .

My best wishes
Woahjaxx the ranger.

New wilderness survival will handle conditions pretty nicely, with newly buffed Troll Ungeant, entangle, and lightning reflexes. Healing Spring is not the only option against condition anymore.

Toxsa.2701:

New wilderness survival will handle conditions pretty nicely, with newly buffed Troll Ungeant, entangle, and lightning reflexes. Healing Spring is not the only option against condition anymore.

Expansion, at best, is months away. So you are really not offering the OP anything viable for him now. And you are assuming nothing changes in the beta, which we know won’t happen.

You can’t reliably avoid damage that is opened from stealth, unless you count exactly the amount of stealth time the thief has. Even then, since you will have to assume he will stay in stealth for as long as possible for the benefits of heal/condi removal/positioning etc, you can count the time he has been in stealth and if it reaches a certain threshold, like 3s for CnD stealth etc, or 16s for SR, then you can either dodge, Counterattack (after 16s SR), wolf fear or stealth yourself off an ambient (with Hunter’s Shot) to counter the stealthed opener. But you have no idea if they will stealth and then immediately attack again to stack the bleeds. You’ll just have to use your reflexes to dodge as soon as you see that damage from stealth, or attempt to pre-empt it. Try to not waste dodges. Stay inside your traps so he has to take that damage to deal damage to you. That’s about all you can do to avoid it, but it is better to also have decent condi removal.

With those weapons and traps, I would be running a build like this for some more sustain, condi damage and condi removal, plus more stealth.

I dumped my 6 points in skirmishing for 6 pts in nature something line. I took the protection proc, SotW proc and Survival OP trait.

I dumped flame trap for a variable slot (like 25% speed signet/sic em/viper nest) and spike trap for muddy terrain. I tried working in quickening skill but -50% heals will probably just end up with me dead faster. I may try sharpening stone for no cast condi/fury and stacking aoe bleed with barrage opener on camps? Not sure just trying to get out of the 2 traps rhythm atm. When update drops I may go with spike trap as default variable if they make the immobilize default. Seeing someone step on spike trap is gratifying ;-)

Really though, muddy terrain has horrible cast time its kinda disappointing. Needs some kind of change.

You don’t need to dump your traps if you don’t want to, its a perfectly suitable setup, just needed a couple of changes.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You don’t need to dump your traps if you don’t want to, its a perfectly suitable setup, just needed a couple of changes.

For now I am. Its not bad seeing what other skills can do. I mean I did go from SoS to lightning reflexes and I never thought I could do that ;-)
Besides when update lands I will likely be using 6 in WS and SotF is going there so I can see what it can do now.

If you really want to use longbow / greatsword, i’d use the Survival of the Fittest version of the Read the Wind Power Ranger spvp meta build. Or the Axe/Dagger, shortbow Condition Survival build. Both have Survival of the Fittest, which have to be one of the best trait rangers have at the moment.

Haven’t roamed on my ranger yet, I did on my ele and have been having some fun fights with the new tier. I’m more concerned about them 2 banging our borderlands, which they seem to love.

I always bring condi removal when roaming with either EB or SotF. It’s just kitten near mandatory as you can only avoid the condi burst so much before you make a mistake. I couldn’t tell what food you were running on my phone, but I never leave home without -40% condi duration food if I’m going to roam.

You could always roll a thief and screw around with it in Spvp to get a good idea of how and when their burst is coming, though I have no idea if condi thieves are even viable there as I haven’t played it in a year. Still, just fighting the class npcs there as a thief will give you a basic idea of what to avoid and when.

I don’t use food :-(

I’m thinking about a cheap short duration -condi duration food to pop when I get the jump on one.

You should always use food and spanner buffs. There are so many cheap options that will help. For example Mango Pies and Hardened Sharpening Stones will provide a good buff for like 5s per hour. Loaf of Saffron bread is also a 3s per hour alternative to poultry and leek soup/lemongrass.

What is spanner?

Justine.6351:

What is spanner?

a spanner is a wrench. It’s referring to utility consumables like maintenance oils and sharpening stones.

Yeah, sorry about that. ^ What he said.

Next tier down foods are so cheap and almost as good stats (compare them) that there is no excuse for using them. Would be a decent buff to you.

First, you’re not running any -Condi Food.

Second, you’re not running Hoelbrook Runes.

Those 2 alone will solve most of your issues.

Third, as someone else mentioned, stay in your spring for when you get condi bomb’d.

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

Then you are setting a limitation on yourself that is further allowing condi classes to drop you. Your enemies are not going to stop using perplexity runes because they are cheese.

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

Lol wut?

If you aren’t using a food and a secondary you are seriously gimping yourself on some huge buffs. The 40%Condi duration plus Condi damage then the stone that converts toughness to Condi or whatever….its time to om nom nom your way to the winners circle!

Eating your vegetables irl makes you strong, same rule applies to pixel vegetables.

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

LoL speechless… it’s hard to give this guy an advice indeeed

This is a weird topic. To the OP, the only answer is ‘get good’. Make each of the classes and go into PvP and see what they can do to you, then read up on their forums about the weaknesses, and go from there.

Coming on a forum, not posting your build, being resistant to changes to your build, and then imposing limitations on yourself is not the most beneficial thing in the world.

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

WTF what???

Ok….did the op just say they wont leap their healing spring because its…..cheesey…

. But….getting trounced by classes you should beat with no problem…that….not cheese?

/facepalm

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

Lmao dam troll xD

Zetsumei.4975:

Justine.6351:

Amins.3710:

Lastly, before the spring goes out, leap through it with greatsword for extra healing.

Nah I prefer not leaping healing spring. Its just not my style as it feels too cheese.

Lmao dam troll xD

I mean right? ;-)

-40 condi food is too expensive to bother with imo, i really cannot justify it even though I have enough coin to actually use them. I prefer the Saffron bread as it has -20 condi and -20% damage reduction when disabled too. But with proper condi removal traits and HS, you shouldn’t need it, leaving you able to take power/condi foods or mango pies for sustain.

You really should use your leap through HS, its a 1300 (+50% of healing power) heal for free, not to be sneezed at mate. It is hardly cheese, its not like you are playing a Dire SA D/P-P/D Thief.

The joke being I use it pretty much every time I healing spring as seen in vid like 10 times.

I’m probably going to look at a good -% food with I think it’s 20min duration? Is cheap cause its festival food.

Which food is that?

6/6/0/2/0

SIc ’em on your utility bar (unless you are super fast with swapping once you see stealthers)

Good timing and knowledge on when to use it will wreck every thief.

Justine.6351:

The joke being I use it pretty much every time I healing spring as seen in vid like 10 times.

I’m probably going to look at a good -% food with I think it’s 20min duration? Is cheap cause its festival food.

Or just buy the -38% one lol

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Which food is that?

Oh sorry I’m mistaken. Koi cake but its plus condi duration ;-(

I’m probably going to go back to traps again. I love spike trap too much compared to the slow cast time of muddy terrain and I can precast spike trap for hunter feels. I don’t need to win every engagement to have fun.

However I am considering the -20% condi/stun dmg http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread
Since its cheap and it will help if I eat a warrior stun lock. Does basilisk venom count as stun for it? Could help me vs thieves too maybe?

I think I’m going to keep utility slot 1 as variable though with flame trap default, soth, sic em and signet of renewal. Another stun break would be useful at anytime really.

Even the -36% one (Poultry and Leek Soup) is still about 30s per hour, I’d just be using Saffron Bread for -20% duration and -20% dmg when disabled, at 2.6s per hour.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Even the -36% one (Poultry and Leek Soup) is still about 30s per hour, I’d just be using Saffron Bread for -20% duration and -20% dmg when disabled, at 2.6s per hour.

Oh I thought you preferred omnomberry bread ;-)
Lol gg edit ;-)