Guild Wars 2

I found a few more issues with pets:

- Sigils on pets are activated only all 10 sec. If you switch pet just after the sigils effects were given to the pet the new pet won’t have any sigils active for the next 9-10 sec. Thats horrible!
Solution: Either activate the effect every second or what would be better: Just put the sigil effects on a new pet upon switch

- The projectice speed of ranged pets really needs to be enhaned since they seem to miss alot when targets move. In dungeons thats no problem usually since targets don’t move so much but in WvW its pretty important.

- Masters Bond is a great feat but it doesn’t allow us to swap pets if we want to benefit from its effect. Change it so that masters bond effect is kept on pet swap but not on death – that way skillful using the pets + swapping reward us

I also think distortion (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29) would make a perfect pet dodge. No extra animations required and it has the same effect as a dodge.

I’m not sure about putting both attack and return on the same button. Didn’t we have something like that during beta and it got changed?

So, how about:
F1 – pet attacks currently selected target
F2 – pet uses special skill
F3 – pet gains distortion + swiftness for a short duration and returns to the ranger
F4 – pet swap

I feel like I’m missing something… why don’t we just do this?

Also, the pet should gain distortion for a short duration when the ranger uses his dodge.

Dastion.3106:

All in all, pets/illusions/minions/etc. not scaling with higher end content is a huge issue that limits most players ability to utilize their mechanic or at the very least limits build options (Elementals, Thieves Guild, Turrets, Minions, Spirit Weapons, Illusions), and while I appreciate Robert’s attention here… I really wish a class design person would hop in and provide their take on the issue.

Agreed. Maybe an easy fix would be to have half our attributes transfer to the pets? It may be viable, but I can see where it could also be overpowering. For example, a player that stacks precision and used a cat pet could be pretty dangerous.

Another issue I just thought of that’s not on the list is pet scaling.

I don’t think it’s as important as the pet AI, etc. already mentioned, but as we see more and more slots have Ascended gear, pets are becoming weaker and weaker in comparison to players. Since the pet is a large part of the ranger, this means a large part of the ranger is becoming weaker and weaker in comparison to other classes.

Dojo.1867:

Shiren.9532:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We tried giving them reduced damage from AOE/attacks, and it opened up other problems – mainly that a team of 2 rangers could take on almost any boss in a dungeon by smart swapping of pets and letting the pet take aggro.

How is this different from warriors being able to solo half of the dungeon encounters in competitive times to most pugs?

So you want 2 classes to be broken? Please don’t be that kind of guy in this thread.

Your assumption is that warriors are broken or that soloing bosses (in his example he doesn’t solo a boss, he uses a second ranger) is what makes them broken. My understanding is that the designers are fine with warriors soloing bosses. Robert himself posts in the video threads of people who post about soloing AC or Lupicus (the one that stands out to me is the ability to solo burrows in path 3 with a greatsword). The biggest difference with this and a ranger doing it with tanking pets is the assumption that the pet is face tanking the boss (I’m assuming this would proabably involve 30 points in BM, dual bears, Signet of the Wild, possibly stone etc) instead of a warrior being forced to dodge all the key attacks (like Kholer’s poison – although I’m not sure how an AoE nerf would do a lot to counter bosses like Kholer who don’t really use AoEs).

In a game ruled by a meta (one the developers are aware of) ruled by greatsword warriors who can blow other class DPS out of the warrior and still stay alive, I don’t see much of a distinction with two rangers soloing bosses and one warrior soloing bosses (admittedly I don’t think they can solo as many as Robert seems to think two rangers would with pet AoE resistance). Given a choice between bringing a walking corpse with me or a face tanking beast, after six months of bringing spiders and devourers, watching terrible responses to F3, spending most boss fights with a walking corpse at my side (the change to the Spider Queen is an example of this – it’s very easy for the Spider Queen to kill pets during this encounter after the change) and feeling pidgeon holed into a handful of pets and not being able to utilise the huge amount of diversity this mechanic should offer me, I’d gladly take the face tanking beast. I still think the warrior meta would be more efficient, and for as long as that’s the base line (read: for as long as they aren’t nerfed) that’s the level that rangers need to compete with.

Honestly, I don’t think the devs can (or are prepared to) do what needs to be done to make the pet mechanic viable while maintaining health diversity (read: cats and birds are also viable in dungeons) without turning the class into a ridiculously complex mess of micromanagement and inefficient outcomes. Consider how difficult many players find dodging attacks when they only have to worry about themselves, do you really think a dodge skill for the pet is going to be a working fix for this issue for most rangers? They then have to pay attention to the boss/mobs, their character’s position and their pet’s position – and then they have to command both themselves and their pet to dodge (often at the same time) not to mention the likelihood of having to manage two dodge bars (a ranger one and a pet one, they likely wouldn’t give you unlimited dodges for the pet). So micromanaging and resource management are the gameplay being pushed by that kind of design. A lot of us play the class for the AI companion, not a micromanaged companion. Micromanaging, while increasing the skill cap (in a certain way), isn’t going to solve the problem for a lot of rangers, and for many players it takes the class in a direction they don’t want to go in.

I am genuinely interested in why he thinks two rangers, through smart use of pet swap, two-manning bosses (many bosses can be soloed by multiple classes already, it just takes longer – in some cases not by much) is a bad thing, given the current meta we already have. I don’t want brand dead easy face tanks pets to trivialise boss fights, but I don’t see micromanagement as an appropriate solution and I do think there is a problem.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Dastion.3106:

All in all, pets/illusions/minions/etc. not scaling with higher end content is a huge issue that limits most players ability to utilize their mechanic or at the very least limits build options (Elementals, Thieves Guild, Turrets, Minions, Spirit Weapons, Illusions), and while I appreciate Robert’s attention here… I really wish a class design person would hop in and provide their take on the issue.

Agreed. Maybe an easy fix would be to have half our attributes transfer to the pets? It may be viable, but I can see where it could also be overpowering. For example, a player that stacks precision and used a cat pet could be pretty dangerous.

I suppose transferring precision to the ranger could be an issue due to the higher base attack, on crit effects, etc. I would be happy just to transfer a portion of my pet’s power to me while in passive mode, but again, sigils and shouts are IMO the way to go about doing this.

DEDEN.2870:

…
The pet would have still two modes of operation: passive and active.

In passive mode, the pet would not fight at all and would never aggro mobs. It would essentially act as eyecandy. You’d still get the sense that you were running along with your bestest animal buddy, but you wouldn’t have to deal with all the annoying micro-management that has so far entailed.
…

If perma-stowing can’t be done. Add this.

A nice option for keeping pets alive could be:

When you tell your pet to return to you, it becomes immune to damage. It will remain immune to damage and stay with you until you tell it to attack again.

This avoids the issue where you tell your pet to get away from the boss and return to you, but then a red circle appears on you and you have to move as well. Often the pet paths right through that second red circle and takes a hit that commonly downs it.

This also avoids the issue where people could exploit the new defense the ranger pet has against being insta-gibbed in dungeons.

I will say, however, that it does not touch on the issue where in large fights in WvW you see Ranger pets die very quickly. Currently, the only place I’ve found for my pet in large WvW fights is on the outskirts of a fight which are not always an option when at a chokepoint or siege.

Lastly, with the change to guard, I can no longer send pets outside the keep to do damage. They are quite useless up on a tower/keep wall with 900 range and going outside the keep is often a very bad idea when outnumbered.

What about playing a ranger agains’t thieves? The pet essentially plays in the favor of the thief by setting him up for free cloak and dagger. I thought pet was supposed to be part of rangers damage?

And against any half competent player target melee pets provide 0 damage since most if not all pet damage can be avoided by pressing the magic keys A or D on the keyboard.

All devs in the future, If you can’t make the core mechanic of a class work in beta, scrap the whole class. It will save everyones time and money.
Or atleast add ‘only competive in gathering nodes in open world’ to the class description.

Firstly, a big THANK YOU to Robert for participating in this thread. This type of interaction is what the Ranger community needs in order to not give up hope in the Ranger class, and for some, GW2 itself.

As a WvW-focused Ranger, I like a lot of what has been discussed and can see where it could also help us out in WvW. I would like to add my voice to those asking for a permanent stow option and subsequent boost to our stats, or at least some way to make our pets truly useful during sieges such as adding range and speed to the devourer’s attacks and giving us a few other options such as at least letting birds and spiders be able to fly/climb up/down walls. Right now, the only way I feel I add value to my team during siege is either manning a siege weapon while on defense if one is available, or standing lookout while on offense. Lookouts are useful, but it gets old when that’s pretty much the only thing you can do.

Thanks again Robert for sharing your thoughts, and hearing us out.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I added health and stamina bar placement just to put it on the list, but those feel like more cosmetic changes than gameplay experience altering changes. I certainly think there is a time and a place for those recommendations, but for this thread let’s just stay focused on the chore mechanics that could be improved and ways that they can be adjusted.

I like the recommendations about the f1 key being more versatile. I certainly think there is something more to be done there with it. When we talk about these things internally, I will be sure that we take a long look at all the F-key commands and see what improvements can be made. I personally favor toggles that allow you more control (what if F1 was both “attack” and “return!” that got toggled? What does that free up? Could F5 be a thing?). There are lots of options to explore.

There have been some calls for perma-stowed pets, and while I have said this in other areas I will say it again here. I don’t think we will let you perma-stow pets – the main reason being we want the player to be interacting with the pet, and the pet to be part of the identity of the player. The role of ranger is to to have a pet in our game, and with that comes a bit of extra micromanagement that comes with the package. Right now the micromanage is difficult and more tools are desired, and I honestly feel that once we make micromanaging pets easier, more responsive, and better in general that players won’t mind that they don’t have perma-stow capabilities.

I am really like that the devs share my opinion of working with the pet instead of without it (to put it simply). I really hope that pet AI mechanics gets fixed to the point where every ranger embraces smart pet use, because having a pet is an advantage that ranger possesses over other players and it is very quickly underestimated by many players. Thank you for your continued support of pet AI !

Regading F1 being a toggle key, right now it means ‘attack a target’ but if we make it toggle, how can we use it properly? When toggled it means attack, but will this make F1 loose it’s ability to send the pet to attack a designated target while you focus on something else? I don’t know if this is possible but it could work, it could potentially replace the need for the existing passive/aggresive toggle button.

Also a broken mechanic with passive/aggresive toggle that needs to be refined: Dungeon boss fight! your pet dies in passive mode, ok so swap pets and in comes a pet with an F2 support skill such as the fern hound. The boss is raging and we’re all attacking, I want my fern hound to stay next to me for those constant heals, that’s why right now I need to use that F2, fern hound houls healing me and my allies, but wait why did it run to the boss in passive mode? Not the intented action. F2 mechanics + passive mode is not working properly in this sense.

Shiren said:

“Honestly, I don’t think the devs can (or are prepared to) do what needs to be done to make the pet mechanic viable while maintaining health diversity (read: cats and birds are also viable in dungeons) without turning the class into a ridiculously complex mess of micromanagement and inefficient outcomes. Consider how difficult many players find dodging attacks when they only have to worry about themselves, do you really think a dodge skill for the pet is going to be a working fix for this issue for most rangers? They then have to pay attention to the boss/mobs, their character’s position and their pet’s position – and then they have to command both themselves and their pet to dodge (often at the same time) not to mention the likelihood of having to manage two dodge bars (a ranger one and a pet one, they likely wouldn’t give you unlimited dodges for the pet). So micromanaging and resource management are the gameplay being pushed by that kind of design. A lot of us play the class for the AI companion, not a micromanaged companion. Micromanaging, while increasing the skill cap (in a certain way), isn’t going to solve the problem for a lot of rangers, and for many players it takes the class in a direction they don’t want to go in.

I am genuinely interested in why he thinks two rangers, through smart use of pet swap, two-manning bosses (many bosses can be soloed by multiple classes already, it just takes longer – in some cases not by much) is a bad thing, given the current meta we already have. I don’t want brain dead easy face tanks pets to trivialise boss fights, but I don’t see micromanagement as an appropriate solution and I do think there is a problem."

I cannot agree more – BRAVO !!!

awge.3852:

Also a broken mechanic with passive/aggresive toggle that needs to be refined: Dungeon boss fight! your pet dies in passive mode, ok so swap pets and in comes a pet with an F2 support skill such as the fern hound. The boss is raging and we’re all attacking, I want my fern hound to stay next to me for those constant heals, that’s why right now I need to use that F2, fern hound houls healing me and my allies, but wait why did it run to the boss in passive mode? Not the intented action. F2 mechanics + passive mode is not working properly in this sense.

This is part of the reason we need to be able to put the pet in “heel,” where they stay by our leg, and don’t aggro.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I added health and stamina bar placement just to put it on the list, but those feel like more cosmetic changes than gameplay experience altering changes. I certainly think there is a time and a place for those recommendations, but for this thread let’s just stay focused on the chore mechanics that could be improved and ways that they can be adjusted.

I like the recommendations about the f1 key being more versatile. I certainly think there is something more to be done there with it. When we talk about these things internally, I will be sure that we take a long look at all the F-key commands and see what improvements can be made. I personally favor toggles that allow you more control (what if F1 was both “attack” and “return!” that got toggled? What does that free up? Could F5 be a thing?). There are lots of options to explore.

There have been some calls for perma-stowed pets, and while I have said this in other areas I will say it again here. I don’t think we will let you perma-stow pets – the main reason being we want the player to be interacting with the pet, and the pet to be part of the identity of the player. The role of ranger is to to have a pet in our game, and with that comes a bit of extra micromanagement that comes with the package. Right now the micromanage is difficult and more tools are desired, and I honestly feel that once we make micromanaging pets easier, more responsive, and better in general that players won’t mind that they don’t have perma-stow capabilities.

As far as other things to do with F keys, I’ve been playing a ranger since launch, and have been really bad about using the F keys. My fault, didn’t keybind them to something easier to hit sooner. As I start to though, I find one thing I’d really like to do would be to be able to direct my pet to hit a different target than I do. F1 directs it to attack the same target I am, but sometimes I really need it to hit the trash mob the champ just spawned, etc. I really like the idea of making attack/return a toggle, could you then make F3 a targeted attack? Something with a target like we use for ground target skills, and we could paint a new enemy for the pet to attack. It could also be useful to keybind the active/passive button, which currently I have to hit with my mouse.

Here are a couple of changes that I think would vastly improve Rangers and their pets:

1. Heal As One. Currently, I think this is the least useful Ranger healing skill. A good way to improve it would be to give it the ability to revive a downed pet. When using Heal As One with a downed pet, make it rez the pet with however much health the heal skill would normally provide.
2. Rampage as One. It’s already a rather good elite, but since half of its power is in applying the buffs to the pet too, it is usually a bad idea to use while the pet is downed/low on health. Ideally, I’d like to see this elite provide a 100% heal to the pet (reviving downed pets in the process). But, I realize this could be a bit too powerful. I’d settle for a 50% pet heal

As for pet dodging, I agree with the people who say that pets shouldn’t have a separate dodge button. That’s a bit too much micro-management for me. Either make the “Return to Me” also trigger a dodge (possibly with a short cooldown on the dodge bit), or set it up so that the pet dodges whenever the player dodges (frequency obviously limited by the player’s stamina).

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’ll admit I don’t WvW as much as I likely should. When I do though, I tend to avoid the larger battles due to culling and those pesky stealth thieves who seem to pick my Anet tag out of the crowd and proceed to stick daggers in my spine.
When I WvW, I tend to run off into areas where I can get the drop on someone who is running to an objective that is contested. Rangers are really powerful in 1v1, especially when you can get the jump on someone and have good daze\evasion. When I am caught up ikittenerg trying to push back another zerg, I tend to keep my pet in pacifist mode so it doesn’t go running off to its death.
In a 1v1-3 situation though, double hyenas and a trusty spider can be a real game changer and difference maker.

Yeah, those thieves are quite a pain in WvW…

You sort of allude to it here that pets simply die in zerg fights which are unfortunately the current meta (of sorts) for WvW. Are solutions being worked on for this issue as well?

On my mesmer, with one build, I can be effective in 1v1s, small skirmishes, as well as zerg fights while my Ranger seems unable to do this. The pet dying so quickly and easily in zerg fights is one part of this.

@ Sebrent

Bummer man. I live for the 3 on 1 opportunities on my ranger. 2 on 1 is still often challenging and 1 vs 1 never is. In zerg fights I can just pick and shut down a target while the zerg or I eats him.

Anyway, pets and dungeons. Good stuff.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’ll admit I don’t WvW as much as I likely should. When I do though, I tend to avoid the larger battles due to culling and those pesky stealth thieves who seem to pick my Anet tag out of the crowd and proceed to stick daggers in my spine.
When I WvW, I tend to run off into areas where I can get the drop on someone who is running to an objective that is contested. Rangers are really powerful in 1v1, especially when you can get the jump on someone and have good daze\evasion. When I am caught up ikittenerg trying to push back another zerg, I tend to keep my pet in pacifist mode so it doesn’t go running off to its death.
In a 1v1-3 situation though, double hyenas and a trusty spider can be a real game changer and difference maker.

Oh that red arenanet tag..I see red and I want to charge at it like a bull!!
If I ever saw an arenanet tag in wvw…

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Rangers are able to do it. Just equip a long bow, throw down a spike trap, and be mindful of your barrage and you’re going to make a big difference. A well placed barrage from 2 or 3 rangers will make rushing forward a lot less appealing to an attacking army, and when they finally do come charging in switch to axes or some other close quarters weapon and micro your pet.
I just don’t like the big battles and tend to avoid them – but longbows are pretty strong in WvW.

LB is really bad as a primary weapon because its 1 is so terrible. It is stellar as a weapon switch that you unload the other skills with, though, because by the time you finish the other skills your weapon swap has reloaded and you can swap back to something with better sustained dps.

Sebrent.3625:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’ll admit I don’t WvW as much as I likely should. When I do though, I tend to avoid the larger battles due to culling and those pesky stealth thieves who seem to pick my Anet tag out of the crowd and proceed to stick daggers in my spine.
When I WvW, I tend to run off into areas where I can get the drop on someone who is running to an objective that is contested. Rangers are really powerful in 1v1, especially when you can get the jump on someone and have good daze\evasion. When I am caught up ikittenerg trying to push back another zerg, I tend to keep my pet in pacifist mode so it doesn’t go running off to its death.
In a 1v1-3 situation though, double hyenas and a trusty spider can be a real game changer and difference maker.

Yeah, those thieves are quite a pain in WvW…

Don’t worry, those semi-perma-stealth thieves are an annoyance for pretty much everybody.

I might just be reiterating suggestions that have already been made here, but this is the way I see ranger pet micromanagement working best:

F1 – Attack/Return. The pet will perform whichever action it is not currently doing, with a separate whistle sound for each so we don’t get confused which we just told it to do.

F2 – Pet ability. No functional changes, just make these activate more quickly (except with drakes. make them able to turn while activating or give them a wider cone of fire so they don’t miss all the time).

F3 – Pet dodge. Either use a stamina bar for the pet or give it a short cooldown with a massive dps drawback (pet can’t attack while dodging). If it becomes too good for “pet tanking” maybe make monsters treat it kind of like stealth where if they do it too much the monster will change targets. I understand the concerns people have expressed that this will make pets too hard to micromanage, but I think that dodging would only be important at very high levels of play anyways as there are many instances in which pets do not currently die too easily (open world PvE and low level dungeons).

F4 – Pet swap. Maybe reduce the after-pet-dies cooldown to 30s or have no additional penalty at all in PvE. I think punishing players for losing their pets in PvP is necessary, but in PvE no class is punished as severely as a ranger is for a mistake short of dying; losing 30-50% of your damage for 60 seconds is huge and I often have to ask people to wait before starting another fight for my pet to be back.

Ision.3207:

Shiren said:

“Honestly, I don’t think the devs can (or are prepared to) do what needs to be done to make the pet mechanic viable while maintaining health diversity (read: cats and birds are also viable in dungeons) without turning the class into a ridiculously complex mess of micromanagement and inefficient outcomes. Consider how difficult many players find dodging attacks when they only have to worry about themselves, do you really think a dodge skill for the pet is going to be a working fix for this issue for most rangers? They then have to pay attention to the boss/mobs, their character’s position and their pet’s position – and then they have to command both themselves and their pet to dodge (often at the same time) not to mention the likelihood of having to manage two dodge bars (a ranger one and a pet one, they likely wouldn’t give you unlimited dodges for the pet). So micromanaging and resource management are the gameplay being pushed by that kind of design. A lot of us play the class for the AI companion, not a micromanaged companion. Micromanaging, while increasing the skill cap (in a certain way), isn’t going to solve the problem for a lot of rangers, and for many players it takes the class in a direction they don’t want to go in.

I am genuinely interested in why he thinks two rangers, through smart use of pet swap, two-manning bosses (many bosses can be soloed by multiple classes already, it just takes longer – in some cases not by much) is a bad thing, given the current meta we already have. I don’t want brain dead easy face tanks pets to trivialise boss fights, but I don’t see micromanagement as an appropriate solution and I do think there is a problem."

I cannot agree more – BRAVO !!!

Quoted for truth.

Maybe it’s the fear of bots becoming stronger with improved pets. What other reason would there could be that in 6 months pets have gotten basicly nothing towards fixing them outside of minor melee pet fix and a new hawk icon.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sebrent.3625:

On my mesmer, with one build, I can be effective in 1v1s, small skirmishes, as well as zerg fights while my Ranger seems unable to do this. The pet dying so quickly and easily in zerg fights is one part of this.

Rangers are able to do it. Just equip a long bow, throw down a spike trap, and be mindful of your barrage and you’re going to make a big difference. A well placed barrage from 2 or 3 rangers will make rushing forward a lot less appealing to an attacking army, and when they finally do come charging in switch to axes or some other close quarters weapon and micro your pet.
I just don’t like the big battles and tend to avoid them – but longbows are pretty strong in WvW.

From my experience in WvW on my Ranger:

• Longbows are bad if you are a condition build.
• Volley is a 30 second cooldown … so the rest of the time I’m doing … ?
• I do the same or better single-target damage with the shortbow compared to the longbow … there is a reason you see many ranger videos with rangers with 0 condition damage still using the shortbow instead of the longbow.
• Spike trap is often set off in zerg fights by pets, minions, and illusions.
• I don’t feel like I should be forced to use longbow and traps to be useful in zergs when my Mesmer can make great use of all his weapons in zerg fights.
• I don’t feel it is fair that the Ranger class mechanic (pet) is drastically worse off in zerg fights when others operate just as well if not better (see: Warrior Killshot) in zerg fights.

The entire game is built around dodging. Trying to make something survive in situations where it would have dodged, but not in situations where dodging wouldn’t have saved it while trying to balance the amount a player can dodge vs. the amount a pet can tank that it would have dodged…
Dodge is a 100% damage mitigation for x time at y max possible intervals. Creating a sub-100% equivalent function is impossible.
Math doesn’t work like that.

Hey there Robert, thanks for taking the time to actively communicate with us. I appreciate it very much

A random thought regarding pets occurred to me which I’d like to share. Instead of the player being forced to micromanage their pet, can’t the pet AI micromanage itself?

What I’m asking is making the pet more ‘intelligent’ where it calculates a threat and acts on its own in order to survive.

I mean, we’re not talking mindless clones or undead here. The Ranger has an intelligent creature who is adept at surviving in the wilds. As such, you’d expect certain pets to have innate abilities (call it instinct) that allows them to survive, seek out prey and the ability to fight (usually better than humans who have to rely on tools).

At present time it feels as if animal companions are mindless zombies that have to be told what to do constantly and randomly die all the time. A lot of Ranger abilities/utilities/traits aren’t helping either as they revolve around you consciously sacrificing your pet in order to survive. Not really a loving bond between Ranger and his animal companion…

So I was wondering if some things could be automated in giving pets a degree of self-preservation and basic automated defenses (without forcing the Ranger to micro-manage every aspect).

Lastly I’m wondering why something like AoE-damage reduction for our pets was shot down because of theoretical advantages (but only if 2 Rangers work in perfect harmony and making clever use of their pets). Yet a glass cannon Warrior that can solo bosses like Lupi gets praised for making clever use of his skills.

I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but I feel that Rangers have a severe disability when compared to other classes; and that disability always revolves around the pet dying from random AoE, not acting on F2 when I need it, not having the same Agony Resist as me in fractals, still has a hard time hitting its target reliably, not even trying to evade that highly visible power-attack from a mob and not disengaging on its own if it gets low on health. As such we lose out on a lot of damage dealing potential because ANet balances the Ranger around the premise that the pet is always active and adding to your dps.

Lastly, would it be an idea to also change the AI of certain pets (like cats and birds) so that it always tries to be behind the target? Adding more range to spiders and devourers might also help as me being at 1500 range while the devourer runs into the lava just to get its 900 range attack off isn’t really helping matters much.

I don’t see the longbow as a weak primary weapon at all. In WvW situations, as long as I’m not being snuck up on the longbow is great as deterrent to melee builds as I can dish out up to 4k crits with 1500 range.

At that range it is very easy to avoid, it has a slow attack speed (giving them ample time to close the gap), and it is decidedly weak once they do inevitably close the gap.

Have you read the comments in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/What-do-you-want-from-my-ranger

This makes me really sad. I somehow doubt that better pets will make things so much better. Because Warrior/Mesmer/Guardian seem to be better anyway: better DPS, better utility.

LB is a terrible weapon. it’s so sad that devs dont actually realize this, and newbs keep saying positive things about it on the forums. LB rangers in WvW are an embarrassment. thing is people dont realize how amazing a high RoF weapon like the power/crit SB is with sigil of fire. range is about the same, and utility so much greater.

anyway, getting off topic here. let me just add that the LB does not synergize well with the pet, mostly because both the pet and the LB fail at longer ranges. LB also fails at 900 or closer, where pets are most effective. issue is, at longer rangers both the pet and the arrows can be juked effortlessly. and landing your barrage cripple + pet combo requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for a subpar effect, while often making u dead while u channel. SB on the other hand gives you a spammable cripple that is effective at any range.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Here’s a thought I just had.

What if we made f3 use a defensive dodge skill instead of returning to the player, and we re-did the “Guard” and “Avoid Combat” button to better serve the function of “return and Heel” and “Attack and be aggro”

So it would be f1 to attack target, f2 to use special skill, f3 to use defensive ‘dodge’ skill, and our stance button would then be tweaked.

Personally, I think this is the best answer I’ve seen, however I do have an alternative possibility. You could add a utility skill, probably a shout, that grants the pet with aegis. This would give them one block like an evade and you can control the cooldown so that it doesn’t become exploitable but is still usefull. This would also allow it to be separate from the ranger’s dodge and as it’s a utility skill it would be used a lot in dungeons, but not so much in the open world.

Personally, I think your idea is better, but I just thought this might be a good way to work it otherwise.

I think the best approach is to look at this from a logical stand point. We have to realize that our pet is 20-60% of our DPS, so it needs to be effective in its DPS distribution. So, logically, the pet needs to stay alive. Every situation will warrant a different method to managing your pet. So I propose a simple 4 choice config for our pets:

F2 click once ~ Attack/Single target mode
F2 click twice ~ Attack/Multiple target mode(aoe condition or boon)
F2 click thrice ~ Guard/Single target mode
F2 click fourth ~ Guard/Multiple target mode(aoe boon or condition)

F2 click fifth ~ Do not attack (currently implemented)

Basically, you can set your pet to be in 1 of 4 modes. Each pet would warrant specific skills depending on the pet and mode. So for example my Raven could have a whirlwind type aoe on Attack/Multiple target mode(aoe) that drops conditions and a Bear could have a boon type of aoe for the Attack/Multiple target mode(aoe) that way every pet could be used for every situation. I understand that would warrant quite a bit of work, but it would synergize the Ranger and their companions perfectly.

With that being said you wouldn’t have to change any UI elements. Just add a 5 mode toggle to F2. The 5th being a do not attack.

Edit:
I forgot to mention that when a pet is in a guard type stance there defense is raised so they can take more damage but at the same time they do less damage. And all pets have 4 types of attacks anyways, this would just allow the Ranger to proc those specific skills on demand instead of randomly.

With our pet I’d really like to see that when the pet is put in avoid combat mode that it would actively go out and lick wounds of my fallen allies. Rangers are hard to keep down and would be a boon to having one in the party if you can provide that protection with the group.

Nature spring should also heal downed players IMO. The ranger is already setup with the potential of being the healer class. I know that Anet doesn’t want designate tanks/healers but you’ve already made the warrior class the tank.

Shout out to Hrouda for coming here and discussing issues in an open forum. Well done, didn’t promise anything, looked for open discussion, talked frankly about some short comings in the class, well done.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sebrent.3625:

On my mesmer, with one build, I can be effective in 1v1s, small skirmishes, as well as zerg fights while my Ranger seems unable to do this. The pet dying so quickly and easily in zerg fights is one part of this.

Rangers are able to do it. Just equip a long bow, throw down a spike trap, and be mindful of your barrage and you’re going to make a big difference. A well placed barrage from 2 or 3 rangers will make rushing forward a lot less appealing to an attacking army, and when they finally do come charging in switch to axes or some other close quarters weapon and micro your pet.
I just don’t like the big battles and tend to avoid them – but longbows are pretty strong in WvW.

Hi Robert,

It’s very encouraging to see you being active in the Ranger forums. This kind of communication between devs and players really does help in reassuring players that their concerns are being taken into consideration when ANet makes balance changes and offers some much needed insight into ANet’s agenda.

I would love to see the same kind of player-dev interaction in the other class forums as well. All of them have many valid concerns but most are practically void of proper dev responses. I’m sure that internally at ANet, you must have a decently balanced representation of each profession. So, if you could get ahold of some of your colleagues who can be considered “representatives” of other professions, and encourage them to take some time out of their busy schedules and actively participate in forum discussions as you have recently, I think that would do much toward improving ANet’s apparent lack of communication and transparency, and make many players happier as a result. =)

Keep up the great work!
Lewis.

P.S. I noticed the number after your account name is 1327… Ever thought about changing that third digit to a 3 with your admin powers? =D

Heres an idea. Instead of having a perma stow option, add an utility skill that makes the pet stick really close to you similar to the shout protect me. When activated, the pet could give you buffs while avoiding mobs. Furthermore, the aggro tables of mobs could be changed so that only you can aggro mobs when you are in range and pets can not aggro mobs unless they attack the mob. This could help a lot in dungeon runs and general pve.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

There have been some calls for perma-stowed pets, and while I have said this in other areas I will say it again here. I don’t think we will let you perma-stow pets – the main reason being we want the player to be interacting with the pet, and the pet to be part of the identity of the player. The role of ranger is to to have a pet in our game, and with that comes a bit of extra micromanagement that comes with the package. Right now the micromanage is difficult and more tools are desired, and I honestly feel that once we make micromanaging pets easier, more responsive, and better in general that players won’t mind that they don’t have perma-stow capabilities.

It is unfortunate that you feel this way, as pets will never actually be of real use to the ranger. Their simply is not enough talent to program a truly good ai and with out that pets will be a detriment to the class. Their should be an option to allow a ranger to be just as competent with out their pet as with their pet, let the customer decide what works best for their vision of the game and not some one from management. And if you really wanted pets to be a part of the ranger why after all this time can we not name them properly? I.E. Have the name stick.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’ll admit I don’t WvW as much as I likely should. When I do though, I tend to avoid the larger battles due to culling and those pesky stealth thieves who seem to pick my Anet tag out of the crowd and proceed to stick daggers in my spine.
When I WvW, I tend to run off into areas where I can get the drop on someone who is running to an objective that is contested. Rangers are really powerful in 1v1, especially when you can get the jump on someone and have good daze\evasion. When I am caught up ikittenerg trying to push back another zerg, I tend to keep my pet in pacifist mode so it doesn’t go running off to its death.
In a 1v1-3 situation though, double hyenas and a trusty spider can be a real game changer and difference maker.

The lb is quite weak in wvw and does no where near the damage a warrior and a rifle can dish out, especially with their useful skills like F1. Our traps are sub par compared to other class’s traps. Spike Trap vs Needle Trap for instance.

And as has been mentioned if you are playing against a competent thief our pets are a detriment to us giving the theif easy c&d.

And if we are forced to have pets and the poor ai that comes with them will they at least be fixed. My birds cant fly as an example. Jumping Puzzles, Cliffs, Keep walls.

I appreciate you trying to fix the ranger class, I just wish it was going better. Pets are only a part of the problem, long bows, nerfed gs damage, anet etc are just some of the many that plague us.

EDIT:
Thank you again for being here in the forums allowing us to talk with you.
And the AI programming is not just anet, it is all companys all teams….wich is a good thing other wise skynet could be around the corner.

Rotted.2843:

Heres an idea. Instead of having a perma stow option, add an utility skill that makes the pet stick really close to you similar to the shout protect me. When activated, the pet could give you buffs while avoiding mobs. Furthermore, the aggro tables of mobs could be changed so that only you can aggro mobs when you are in range and pets can not aggro mobs unless they attack the mob. This could help a lot in dungeon runs and general pve.

Leashed mode. Can even give a fancy glowing collar and leash between the two if graphics people want a challenge.

Shiren.9532:

Honestly, I don’t think the devs can (or are prepared to) do what needs to be done to make the pet mechanic viable while maintaining health diversity (read: cats and birds are also viable in dungeons) without turning the class into a ridiculously complex mess of micromanagement and inefficient outcomes. Consider how difficult many players find dodging attacks when they only have to worry about themselves, do you really think a dodge skill for the pet is going to be a working fix for this issue for most rangers? They then have to pay attention to the boss/mobs, their character’s position and their pet’s position – and then they have to command both themselves and their pet to dodge (often at the same time) not to mention the likelihood of having to manage two dodge bars (a ranger one and a pet one, they likely wouldn’t give you unlimited dodges for the pet). So micromanaging and resource management are the gameplay being pushed by that kind of design. A lot of us play the class for the AI companion, not a micromanaged companion. Micromanaging, while increasing the skill cap (in a certain way), isn’t going to solve the problem for a lot of rangers, and for many players it takes the class in a direction they don’t want to go in.

I am genuinely interested in why he thinks two rangers, through smart use of pet swap, two-manning bosses (many bosses can be soloed by multiple classes already, it just takes longer – in some cases not by much) is a bad thing, given the current meta we already have. I don’t want brand dead easy face tanks pets to trivialise boss fights, but I don’t see micromanagement as an appropriate solution and I do think there is a problem.

Amen!

If comparing the ranger class with the warrior class, some major questions pops up:

Why is the warrior normally more powerful than the ranger+pet combined despite being easier to play since you only got that one character to look out for? Shouldn’t rangers, that have to keep track and micromanage two characters at the same time, be rewarded for that in such manner that ranger+pet combined is way more powerful?

When this is not the case, why then should anyone really choose the ranger class over the warrior, other than the fact that they find the actual gameplay mechanics more fun (which is an ok criteria in and of itself)?

Good management of pets should be very rewarding, something that currently is next to impossible during many encounters no matter how good you are (or think you are!).

Keeping pets on passive can never be the solution, we need them out there all the time to be competitive – in all aspects of the game, and in all encounters.

It’s good to see my original query in the Dungeon patch thread grow into this, with lots of great feedback from both players and from you, Robert – thanks!

Robert Hrouda.1327:

My typical pet setup for dungeons is Hyena (because having 2 knockdowns and another hyena is super good), and a Drake (almost any

We think Drakes are healing enemies (pic included.) This just might affect dungeon survivability.

nerva.7940:

LB is a terrible weapon. it’s so sad that devs dont actually realize this, and newbs keep saying positive things about it on the forums. LB rangers in WvW are an embarrassment. thing is people dont realize how amazing a high RoF weapon like the power/crit SB is with sigil of fire. range is about the same, and utility so much greater.

anyway, getting off topic here. let me just add that the LB does not synergize well with the pet, mostly because both the pet and the LB fail at longer ranges. LB also fails at 900 or closer, where pets are most effective. issue is, at longer rangers both the pet and the arrows can be juked effortlessly. and landing your barrage cripple + pet combo requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for a subpar effect, while often making u dead while u channel. SB on the other hand gives you a spammable cripple that is effective at any range.

Tell me how long you have used the longbow and how you’re using the longbow before you make a claim like that.

Florgknight.1589:

nerva.7940:

LB is a terrible weapon. it’s so sad that devs dont actually realize this, and newbs keep saying positive things about it on the forums. LB rangers in WvW are an embarrassment. thing is people dont realize how amazing a high RoF weapon like the power/crit SB is with sigil of fire. range is about the same, and utility so much greater.

anyway, getting off topic here. let me just add that the LB does not synergize well with the pet, mostly because both the pet and the LB fail at longer ranges. LB also fails at 900 or closer, where pets are most effective. issue is, at longer rangers both the pet and the arrows can be juked effortlessly. and landing your barrage cripple + pet combo requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for a subpar effect, while often making u dead while u channel. SB on the other hand gives you a spammable cripple that is effective at any range.

Tell me how long you have used the longbow and how you’re using the longbow before you make a claim like that.

I play a power/crit ranger, using LB & SB swapping between the two as I see it fit, but the sad reality is that LB does about the same dmg in max range, as a non flanking shortbow point blank, maybe 10% more, but that’s it. LB suppose to be a pve ranger’s main weapon and there is no real gain in using it in dungeons, it has some advantages, like barrage, but that’s pretty much it.

Florgknight.1589:

nerva.7940:

LB is a terrible weapon. it’s so sad that devs dont actually realize this, and newbs keep saying positive things about it on the forums. LB rangers in WvW are an embarrassment. thing is people dont realize how amazing a high RoF weapon like the power/crit SB is with sigil of fire. range is about the same, and utility so much greater.

anyway, getting off topic here. let me just add that the LB does not synergize well with the pet, mostly because both the pet and the LB fail at longer ranges. LB also fails at 900 or closer, where pets are most effective. issue is, at longer rangers both the pet and the arrows can be juked effortlessly. and landing your barrage cripple + pet combo requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for a subpar effect, while often making u dead while u channel. SB on the other hand gives you a spammable cripple that is effective at any range.

Tell me how long you have used the longbow and how you’re using the longbow before you make a claim like that.

Well I have over 3500 kills with the LB equally split between wvw and pve TRYING to make it work with several different builds. Alas what you quoted is the truth. The LB is a 1 trick pony that is easily avoided. It’s great when it lands but when it doesn’t you have 30 seconds to try again. If we had 3-4 wpn swap possibilities sure we’d all use it. But we have 2. So most rangers use a sb and some melee wpn combo or 2 sets of melee wpn combo. That RARE occasion where I see an opportunity to place a nice barrage I swap the SB for LB after a nice buff f/ the warhorn. Then I move back and pop the SB back on. The math has been done repeatedly for LB vs SB. Sb wins every kitten time.

back on topic, fellas?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Vox Hollow.2736:

back on topic, fellas?

I agree. I have a habit of driving things off topic. Back to pets please!

Sorry about that. I just get irritated when someone calls the longbow completely worthless, since its my favourite weapon.

Anyways, I’ve had trouble activating my wolf’s F2 skill while downed, sometimes I’ll continuously mash the button in WvW but it’ll just stand there while the thief invisible stomps me. Could there be a problem with activating pet F2 skills when you don’t have a target selected?

LB is not worthless, anyone who tell you that can’t play ranger, my full zerker LB build is made e especially for WvW zerges traited and all, the damage from autoattack at max range is insane, plus barrage, the SB will never ever outdamage a LB full zerker in a long range fight, if anyone tells you otherwise is fooling themselves, but i wish rapid fire would function better with higher damage and can cancel when trying to use other skills, plus the knock back could use a longer range. But the LB is far from useless.

How do you feel we should address the stigma that rangers have developed in regards to dungeons and fractals?

You, yourself claimed that most of the very successful ranger dungeon builds you knew of were not DPS focused, but many groups now just want fast dungeon runs with damage based builds that aren’t going to lose their damage when the pet dies. You said something about Rangers just having to work at it a bit more than Warriors and Mesmers? Could you elaborate?

Robert how about giving us more variety in pets other then F2, and either Tanky crappy damage pets, or High Burst DPS pets…

We don’t have any Heavy Condition damage pets for example…and some of our pets, Pigs for example interesting are complete pain in the kitten to use.