Guild Wars 2

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sebrent.3625:

Are we allowed to know when this next discussion is, Robert? ;-)

Today! We have them multiple times per week. I may not bring up all of the issues from the list since there are a bunch of other class things to discuss, but I’ll seed the list details multiple times throughout the coming meetings to keep it on everyone’s mind, and spend some time this weekend coming up with proposals and such so I can better guide the conversation.

Is this first time pets has ever been discussed? If not could we get a list of things been there done that at meetings.

Thanks for taking the time to talk to us Robert. I think i speak for most of us when i say it means a lot to finally hear from someone. ^__^

Robert Hrouda.1327:

that is something I can personally do

Both the white raven and the black raven share identical stats. There is no differences between them with the exception that one is black and one is white. Just cosmetic differences – all the numbers are the same.

Hurrah!

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Moddo.7105:

Is this first time pets has ever been discussed? If not could we get a list of things been there done that at meetings.

We talk about anything pertaining to game balance. Yes pets have been brought up before many times.

I don’t imagine we’ll post a transcript of topics. The things we talk about are best reflected by patch notes.

Still I think it might be beneficial for the community to see the some of the step involved in the changes (as of late most of the balancing fixes have been weakening to the profession stated as being in the need of most help) at least then the community has some insight into the whys.

PS (Kind of off-topic, but your PM is full so..) What is your stance on the speed run factor in the dungeons and the overall perception that only certain group makeups are going to work for that? Et. if the profession can not burst then it has no place in the group.

Radnar.9814:

Thanks for taking the time to talk to us Robert. I think i speak for most of us when i say it means a lot to finally hear from someone. ^__^

Someone that is a content designer instead of marketing babble.

So nice to have Mr. Robert here helping to fix our class. I’m assuming, that with the upcoming patch, there will be many changes to the ranger? At least I hope. Or just give me some stealths and regens while I can do amazing damage like thieves, and i’ll be happy, lol. But seriously, I am glad you’re here to try and do things for us.

I don’t think we should expect this discussion to resolve into changes for March. Maybe April though (if they take any of our suggestions to heart).

Once this pet issue is shored up, I’d like to invite Rob back to have one of these convo’s with us on our traits, and another one on our weapon skills if he could possibly spare the time.

Please be our unofficial spokesperson Rob! Rangers have felt so lost for so long until you came along! We all love this class and just want it to be viable and on par with the others!

neverborne.4736:

Please be our unofficial spokesperson Rob! Rangers have felt so lost for so long until you came along! We all love this class and just want it to be viable and on par with the others!

You should see how the classes Rob doesn’t play feel, haha.

By the way Rob, burning question from the Ranger community that has never been clearly answered. Mad props if you step up to the plate on this one:

Was the change to our shortbow attack speed/damage output an intentional nerf based on thinking the weapon was too strong, or a shrugged-off side effect of the “animation glitch” fix?

Rising Dusk.2408:

neverborne.4736:

Please be our unofficial spokesperson Rob! Rangers have felt so lost for so long until you came along! We all love this class and just want it to be viable and on par with the others!

You should see how the classes Rob doesn’t play feel, haha.

I feel sorry for no other classes… except maybe Engi’s.

neverborne.4736:

I feel sorry for no other classes… except maybe Engi’s.

You should roll an alt that isn’t a Guardian, Mesmer, Elementalist, or Thief. (Yes, even the Warrior has problems if you have tried to use one in PvP!) You’ll see that Rangers definitely aren’t the only ones with issues, and I think all of the profession forums could do for some info that they aren’t the only ones suffering.

I know this topic is about pets but I was wondering if the Longbow has ever been discussed. I am a LB user because I like the playstyle of a standard ranger from the backlines and my swap is an SB. I feel that the LB needs somewhat of a damage/speed increase maybe? I play a power/crit build and think maybe an increase in damage might make the LB more comparable to the SB in terms of damage. Any thoughts?

I’ve kept following this as best I can – lots of good ideas.

Rob (and others) just one thought for a pet dodge/invuln/aegis type mechanic:

Dodging for the PC works well not only for the Evade, but also the movement it buys. A pet dodge that does not move the pet will be considerably less effective than a PC dodge since continuing AOE or attacks such as 100Blades will still connect with most of their damage.

Of course, deciding which direction the pet dodges in would be too much for the player to handle and pathing etcetera are other issues.

There may be ways to split the middle, such as an evade duration of Xs.

Of course, even a single evade is better than what we have now

Well, now I know there is at least 1 game dev that really takes talking to player seriously. O.o

Best thread ever. Pet dodge all the way.

I’ve been doing fractals with my newbie guildies who are all ~ level 40. I think Ranger was made for helping low level players get around, it has been so much fun dodging and tanking for them.

@ Robert.

Could the Developers release a list, sometime in the future consisting of all known bugs (that the devs know). So that we can tell you if it is still there or not. Sometimes, the patch notes are well, not as clear as you’d want em to be.

A simple
Bug – blahblahblah with a “fixed by patch 26.03.2013” for example… This way, you achieve some transparency upon which bugs are fixed, which bugs you thought you fixed, and you will also allow us to help you set some priorities for bugs…

What if we can get a new pet that would be more useful in a dungeon. Have it lay down combo fields like bonfire and stay in front of us and between our target. I think most pets should have this type of skill that assists the ranger. Wouldn’t be that far of a stretch to have spiders throw a gas cloud or drakes a flame wall to shoot through to give us extra damage.

dallywolf.1906:

What if we can get a new pet that would be more useful in a dungeon. Have it lay down combo fields like bonfire and stay in front of us and between our target. I think most pets should have this type of skill that assists the ranger. Wouldn’t be that far of a stretch to have spiders throw a gas cloud or drakes a flame wall to shoot through to give us extra damage.

More combo fields would always be welcomed, but spiders currently have a 4 second poison field on a 20 second countdown. There is also a kind of devourer that does it as well. (goes to check the wiki…) It’s the whiptail devourer poison cloud ability.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

sjarulfa.2496:

PS – Robert, could you ask whoever deals with pet stats to see if the white raven (HoM) and regular raven have the same stats. Its often reported the white has less vit with no corresponding increase elsewhere.

that is something I can personally do

Both the white raven and the black raven share identical stats. There is no differences between them with the exception that one is black and one is white. Just cosmetic differences – all the numbers are the same.

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

robert if you already at the raven, please check the black widow spider to, it has very low health, while the other spider is 37xx he is just 13xx, make it worsT spider to use, please take care of this cause this is my best HOM reward

Hi Robert,

Another quick problem off the top of my head. F2 pet buffs often do not land on the ranger when cast in huge groups. This is very apparent if you do the dragons like Shatterer or Jorlag. For example put the pet in passive mode, cast Stalker might, switch to Red Moa which appears on the other side, and cast fury and chances are you will not get the buff despite it being in range.

Any F2 buff should be a guarantee land on the ranger that cast it before affecting 3rd parties. In fact, I would argue that F2 buffs should not take range into account for the pet owner ranger because it renders it completely useless for bow users. (e.g. Cast fury, send pet out to chase target, fury runs out. Now you have to pull pet back to cast fury again? It’s bad enough that it has to stop midstream in chasing the target but I have to wait for it to come back before the buff will land on me and then I can let it resume the chase? It’s little things like this that absolutely kills ranger DPS.)

TL/DR: F2 buffs should always land on the ranger regardless of pet location. For all third parties, buffs should land base on proximity.

Don’t suppose you’ll make Pigs F2 ability work like Steal from Thieves, as in you use it, they search for something, and their F2 ability becomes that ability.

Right now pigs see very little use because their mechanic is incredibly cumbersome and frankly annoying.

Which is sad, because their F2 forage items I think are suppose to make up for some of the vast short comings our class has.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Arifialdy.1534:

robert if you already at the raven, please check the black widow spider to, it has very low health, while the other spider is 37xx he is just 13xx, make it worsT spider to use, please take care of this cause this is my best HOM reward

Zounds! You are correct! But that was also foreseen by the designer who fixed the White Raven, so expect that to be fixed as well next patch!

When they do that could they also fix the tool tip for the white raven? It still lists the lower stats and I had no idea the thing was even fixed.

Xsorus.2507:

Don’t suppose you’ll make Pigs F2 ability work like Steal from Thieves, as in you use it, they search for something, and their F2 ability becomes that ability.

Right now pigs see very little use because their mechanic is incredibly cumbersome and frankly annoying.

Which is sad, because their F2 forage items I think are suppose to make up for some of the vast short comings our class has.

Can I second this idea, it makes a lot more sense, and makes them much more usable. Also it would fix the issue that you are loathed to use them in PvP as the enemy can apparently pick up your buff and use it against you.

While we’re on the subject of pet stats….

1. I suppose it’s intentional that hyenas have 1/2 the Power of other canines since you can get 2 at once, but figured I would check.
2. Is the polar bear supposed to have a couple hundred more Power than other bears?

To Robert : not sure if this has been ask or not.
Can you let pets have same AR as the owner in fotm or make them some how not be able to take agnoy at all? beacuse as a ranger in fotm my pet is kinda useless in combat wise when fight boss . only thing his good at is rez ppl. they die way to quick since any small aoe/agony will sent them to death.

I am sure am not the only one think this is a problem? can u give any info on this matter?

phys.7689:

making your pet essentially completely set and forget, is a bad game mechanic, people talk about WoWs solution, but remember wow is a game with and equipment based focus, most of the game and encounters are built around stats, GW is more active, and more about positioning and reaction, hate it or love it, thats the game. Making pets able to survive without positioning/reaction/planning at all, is not a feasible answer in this game. It wasnt even an answer in GW1 with heroes (high level hero play essentially involved actively managing your heroes, position, disabling abilities, enabling, making them target specific enemies etc) and gw1 was more stat focused and less anyhow.

come up with solutions for pets that dont involve making them undefeatable without the player being involved.

100% this. I feel that the ranger gameplay is already dull as it is. At least compared to other classes such as the Elementalist and the Engineer. I wouldn’t mind if a good ranger had to micro management his pet in order to get maximum performance.

Hey Robert!
I think that all that staff like ravens and spiders is not so important cause your next patch will be again a disapointment like “nerf, unuseful skill improvement and raven health fix”. That IS NOT what we are waiting for after 6 months of struggling with bugs and broken class mechanic. I do appreciate your desire to dialogue with us but honestly rangers have problems in general, not only in dungeons. I wonder why someone like Jon Perers wouldnt talk with us. Mb hes to busy.
But you know, there were lot of thoughts, good and bad, but all im trying to say is “ kitten i dont need a spider health fix – i need fixing awful bugs like lick wounds, i need trait synergy, i need spirits and shouts which CAN WORK and i need drastic change in pet micro”. Sounds like too much for 1 patch but hey – i personally waited and hoped for half a year! Seems that everyone in anet is aware of our problems but for a long time nothing seems to ever change
I d like not to adress my complaitns to you, Robert, cause i share great respect for what you have done to dungeons and for your willing to help, but i just cant adress to anyone else, cause nobody listens.
Thanks!

I think it’s perfectly fine that Robert speaks for us since he plays a ranger himself.

another thing to mention, the rangers dungeon rewards…. im talking CoF, TA, AC…. the armors are well, kinda bland… especially the helmets.

take AC…. it makes you look like some 15 year old wimpy squire, even as female norn at full size….

CoF shoulders are obscured by the coat, and they really aint useful for anything, since they dont even get to show.

on another note;
Orr sets looks horrible… just horrible…

With the raven and spider stat problems being brought up, and by the sounds of it, going to be address. I would like to ask if it was intentional to be able to use the HoM pets with there non HoM counterparts.
Like I’m able to have the black and pink moa ( same skills) on at the same time, but am not able to use 2 pink moas for the same purpose. Wouldn’t this create a level of unfairness for those who have it unlocked vs those who don’t. Not really sure if this would give an advantage or not, but something to consider.

A simple solution which almost all Rangers will agree with because it’s an optional thing so Rangers can decide for them self, give Rangers the ability to stow there pet without it coming back out on combat engage in exchange for stats which will be on par with the other professions.

I’m not sure if there are flaws with that design but it’s certainly a good stepping stone to finding a solution

BobbyT.7192:

With the raven and spider stat problems being brought up, and by the sounds of it, going to be address. I would like to ask if it was intentional to be able to use the HoM pets with there non HoM counterparts.
Like I’m able to have the black and pink moa ( same skills) on at the same time, but am not able to use 2 pink moas for the same purpose. Wouldn’t this create a level of unfairness for those who have it unlocked vs those who don’t. Not really sure if this would give an advantage or not, but something to consider.

That’s why in the location balance and fairness is most important, s/tPvP, you can use HotM pets without having earned them.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Arifialdy.1534:

robert if you already at the raven, please check the black widow spider to, it has very low health, while the other spider is 37xx he is just 13xx, make it worsT spider to use, please take care of this cause this is my best HOM reward

Zounds! You are correct! But that was also foreseen by the designer who fixed the White Raven, so expect that to be fixed as well next patch!

While we’re on the subject of pet stats: Bonus stats from Beastmastery or traits do not appear on the pet out of combat. I’m not sure if this means if the pet has less vitality/armour if it is the first one to get hit, but it’s confusing in any case.

kidbs.8920:

If pets are so hard to balance, then how about giving rangers some trait to permanently stow their pet and increase their own personal damage in doing so. White Lions in Warhammer had a “trait” that allowed them to do this.

This i want this so badly, perma stow, god i dream about this..like GW1

Robert Hrouda.1327:

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

It’s nice that 7 months after release, this minor discrepancy is finally getting fixed.

Keep in mind, the black widow spider also has a discrepancy when compared with the regular pet.

Minos.5168:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

It’s nice that 7 months after release, this minor discrepancy is finally getting fixed.

Keep in mind, the black widow spider also has a discrepancy when compared with the regular pet.

This was already addressed

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Arifialdy.1534:

robert if you already at the raven, please check the black widow spider to, it has very low health, while the other spider is 37xx he is just 13xx, make it worsT spider to use, please take care of this cause this is my best HOM reward

Zounds! You are correct! But that was also foreseen by the designer who fixed the White Raven, so expect that to be fixed as well next patch!

Whew, ton of post in here, but I have a question. What was the issue with reducing overall pet damage, and slightly boosting ranger damage so it wouldn’t be that big of a blow to the ranger whenever a pet got killed due to certain situations.? That seems like a simple solution to me, but maybe it’s not.

I know it was probably answered, but hard to find among all these most, lol.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

sjarulfa.2496:

PS – Robert, could you ask whoever deals with pet stats to see if the white raven (HoM) and regular raven have the same stats. Its often reported the white has less vit with no corresponding increase elsewhere.

that is something I can personally do

Both the white raven and the black raven share identical stats. There is no differences between them with the exception that one is black and one is white. Just cosmetic differences – all the numbers are the same.

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

I wish you mained a necro Hrouda. Maybe only then we could get some bug fix done with our pets.

Lambent.6375:

Whew, ton of post in here, but I have a question. What was the issue with reducing overall pet damage, and slightly boosting ranger damage so it wouldn’t be that big of a blow to the ranger whenever a pet got killed due to certain situations.? That seems like a simple solution to me, but maybe it’s not.

I know it was probably answered, but hard to find among all these most, lol.

Yeah, that’d be good. But I they had some reasons to don’t do it.

Adding on something I read a little bit back in the thread that gave me an idea. Would it be possible while pets are on heel to have that pet give an active buff to the ranger. Maybe each pet gives something different (bear gives might, Canines give retaliation etc).
Or maybe we just do more dmg with our pets nearby(On heel) sort of like the bosses in the AC SM dungeon. So we still have our pets with us but we do not rely on them so much and we are trading in their extra tank for support and extra damage.

Robert Hrouda, would you please give us a summary of the notes you made? I believe most has been said, but maybe not.

Holland.9351:

Robert Hrouda, would you please give us a summary of the notes you made? I believe most has been said, but maybe not.

Page 3 in this thread.

Boomstin.3460:

Holland.9351:

Robert Hrouda, would you please give us a summary of the notes you made? I believe most has been said, but maybe not.

Page 3 in this thread.

Oh thanks. I knew it, but I didn’t know he was updating it.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

-More defensive pet skills.

perhaps, instead of defensive, we could try passive “familiy” skills…..

Moas have passive Swiftness “sigil” to all allies
Drakes has passive 5 sec Fireshield “sigil” every 30 seconds
Birds (eagles, hawks, owls, ravens) have passive 5 sec evasion (aegis) “Sigil” every 30 seconds
Felines has passive 3 sec quickness “sigil” every 30 seconds
Bears has passive might (10 stack) “sigil” to all allies
Spiders has passive condition reduction (-25%?) “sigil”
Fish/sharks i dunno…. something like the prementioned “sigils”

i say “Sigil” since i mean a passive aura ability that affects yourself, the pet and allies within a certain confined area. It is not activated, simply passive and always there.
Simply having “one active and one passive” ability for each pet would make them more versatile, without the need of even more micromanagement. It would also help ALOT upon the “NOEZ, no rangers shall run with us.” attitude… since just having us tag along would be like a free “boon buff for all”

The reason i listed some of them as “30 sec interval” is because those would be infinitely OP if they were permanent passive….

Thanks for taking a look at the HoM pet and I hope i don’t sound too demanding, but can you look at the drake-family skill “Chomp”.

It’s supposed to heal your pet, but it actually heals your enemy.

Here is a pet window showing buffs/debuffs with duration that you can see at all times, way more helpful than the awful bar in this game, maybe it can help give you some ideas on how to do it right.

raptor.1064:

Here is a pet window showing buffs/debuffs with duration that you can see at all times, way more helpful than the awful bar in this game, maybe it can help give you some ideas on how to do it right.

Hell everquest around 2000 had a better UI for pets than GW2. So sad how bad and archaic Anet made this UI. No text file logging combat dmg windows does not work 1/2 time. No pet dmg in combat windows. And all chat stuck to only 1 allowable window. Wow 2000 is calling Anet they want there UI back.

Lambent.6375:

Whew, ton of post in here, but I have a question. What was the issue with reducing overall pet damage, and slightly boosting ranger damage so it wouldn’t be that big of a blow to the ranger whenever a pet got killed due to certain situations.? That seems like a simple solution to me, but maybe it’s not.

I know it was probably answered, but hard to find among all these most, lol.

The only way I could see this working is if it was a 5% difference change. That way Rangers do a little more, and pets do a little less. It also allows for some easy comparisons in every area. If we find Rangers are on the whole doing better with that 5% increase, that will tell all.