Guild Wars 2

Sebrent.3625:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sebrent.3625:

Robert Hrouda, could you please weigh in on whether or not things like the in-game advantages given by having HoM pets, etc. are also on the list of “issues” for the Ranger?

I think it would be beneficial if we knew where the community and the devs were on the same page. I think it’d be beneficial to the community to know what are the sort of things we know to simply “be patient” on. For example, we know to be patient on pet AI and pets have no Agony Resist in fractals. That’s comforting to know that those are acknowledged problems and being fixed.

Robert, it’s the fact that if I want two spider pets that have a stun, I have to have the Black Widow. If I want two ravens, I have to have the White Raven. If I want two Moas with a stun, I have to have the Black Moa.

These are in-game skill choices that are not available without having the HoM pets. It’s similar to saying someone can’t have a particular weapon as part of their second weapon set because they didn’t have enough HoM points. A Ranger without the Black Widow has only the Jungle Spider for a stun on F2. One with the Black Widow can use Jungle Spider to stun on F2 and then swap out to Black Widow to have another Spider pet with a stun on F2.

This is the in-game advantage from HoM that I was asking about.

Is this acknowledged as an issue?

If so, are there plans for:

• Being able to either take two of the same pet (i.e. both my terrestial slots are a cave spider)
• Being able to obtain the HoM pets through other means
• Being able to obtain new pets of the same family and with the same F2 skills as the HoM pets

Thanks.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAME THE GREEN MOAS.

WTT family for Green Moa.

And skelks, let me tame them.

Sebrent.3625:

Robert, it’s the fact that if I want two spider pets that have a stun, I have to have the Black Widow. If I want two ravens, I have to have the White Raven. If I want two Moas with a stun, I have to have the Black Moa.

These are in-game skill choices that are not available without having the HoM pets. It’s similar to saying someone can’t have a particular weapon as part of their second weapon set because they didn’t have enough HoM points. A Ranger without the Black Widow has only the Jungle Spider for a stun on F2. One with the Black Widow can use Jungle Spider to stun on F2 and then swap out to Black Widow to have another Spider pet with a stun on F2.

This is the in-game advantage from HoM that I was asking about.

Is this acknowledged as an issue?

This is not true. The F2 skills they use (the HoM pets and the normal ones) share cooldowns, so you are actually at a disadvantage if you bring both types because you have only 1 F2 cooldown between two pets.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Sebrent.3625:

Robert, it’s the fact that if I want two spider pets that have a stun, I have to have the Black Widow. If I want two ravens, I have to have the White Raven. If I want two Moas with a stun, I have to have the Black Moa.

These are in-game skill choices that are not available without having the HoM pets. It’s similar to saying someone can’t have a particular weapon as part of their second weapon set because they didn’t have enough HoM points. A Ranger without the Black Widow has only the Jungle Spider for a stun on F2. One with the Black Widow can use Jungle Spider to stun on F2 and then swap out to Black Widow to have another Spider pet with a stun on F2.

This is the in-game advantage from HoM that I was asking about.

Is this acknowledged as an issue?

This is not true. The F2 skills they use (the HoM pets and the normal ones) share cooldowns, so you are actually at a disadvantage if you bring both types because you have only 1 F2 cooldown between two pets.

Oh rly?!
I had read several places about people using Black and White Ravens so they could F2, swap, F2 for quick burst.

If this is really the case, then no problems. Anyone with the HoM pets care to make a quick video? the free 30 sec fraps let’s you do should be more than sufficient.

Sebrent.3625:

Oh rly?!
I had read several places about people using Black and White Ravens so they could F2, swap, F2 for quick burst.

If this is really the case, then no problems. Anyone with the HoM pets care to make a quick video? the free 30 sec fraps let’s you do should be more than sufficient.

You could just go to the Heart of the Mists and test this yourself, lol.

xev.9476:

Sebrent.3625:

Oh rly?!
I had read several places about people using Black and White Ravens so they could F2, swap, F2 for quick burst.

If this is really the case, then no problems. Anyone with the HoM pets care to make a quick video? the free 30 sec fraps let’s you do should be more than sufficient.

You could just go to the Heart of the Mists and test this yourself, lol.

Ah! Duh! Looks like I have too much blood in my coffee stream.

Sebrent.3625:

Oh rly?!
I had read several places about people using Black and White Ravens so they could F2, swap, F2 for quick burst.

If this is really the case, then no problems. Anyone with the HoM pets care to make a quick video? the free 30 sec fraps let’s you do should be more than sufficient.

To be fair…even if you could use both, it was nowhere near the mountain it was being made into.

If such a minor difference is an issue, I’d suggest getting rid of different classes and equipment levels altogether.

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

Sebrent.3625:

Oh rly?!
I had read several places about people using Black and White Ravens so they could F2, swap, F2 for quick burst.

If this is really the case, then no problems. Anyone with the HoM pets care to make a quick video? the free 30 sec fraps let’s you do should be more than sufficient.

To be fair…even if you could use both, it was nowhere near the mountain it was being made into.

If such a minor difference is an issue, I’d suggest getting rid of different classes and equipment levels altogether.

Raven’s bursts hit harder than any other bird in the game. That’s an advantage. We were told there wouldn’t be an advantage to those having GW1 fluff items.

It’s pretty simple and understandable that people would be miffed.

LICK. WOUNDS.
I’m really annoyed that my main downed ability only works 50% of the time, because if I am on a slight incline or odd angle, BAM! No pet heal. He just stands over me humping my dying body, without a single care given.

Same goes for Search and Rescue- if the person is on a bit of an angle, the pet just stands over them and refuses to heal. it’s really annoying and there needs to be more leeway given in terrain abnormalities and these skills.

I also like the 5% damage change up idea others posted, by removing 5% of the pets damage and giving that back to the ranger. It’s a small change, but would do a great service in figuring out where the issue truly stands.

all i have to say is pet in arah exp at lupi my pets die in phase 2 all the time in 2 secs

about the HoM pets and non-hom pets i thought we already had the disscussion when the game came out? it ended in an agreement that having 2 of the same pet types was gimping yourself in any pve/wvw enviroment. only having 2 melee, 2 range or 2 buff pets in your slots durring combat will siverly limit your adaptability to fighting in most instances. we discussed it was better to have 1 of one type and 1 of another type for those that were not in the disscussion… and as for spiking ability? not really, pets cant spike since they dont carry might and they are to iffy to rely on making it to the target since swaping pets it has travel time from you back to the farget and usually if it is melee doing this tactic will kill one of your 2 pets giving you the extended swap time.

the only real place that having 2 of the same pets is viable is in sPvP which HoM pets are avalible for all.
so in conclusion, dont use 2 of the same pet types in pve, anyone who is somewhat skilled in the class will agree that there are times u dont want a melee pet and you dont want a pet to be hanging back when it can be dealing alot of damage very quickly for you…. this applies to wvw as well, there will be times when u are in a keep and your pet wont be able to hit foes, and there will be times when you are wanting to drop someone as quick as possible. make your self flexible….. at least untill they make it so we can swap pets while in combat to pets that are not in our active slots… than you have the possible right to complain… or not… we really dont know what such a thing would do to pet balance atm. but please stop thinking that having 2 of the same pet type is somehow giving someone an advantage right now because that is really far from the case, it is more of a hinderance, expecialy in my personal experiance from trying to lvl with the jungle spider and the blackwiddow.
also sidenote, the spiders dont “stun” their active is really an immobilize, not sure if it is a bug or not but it has the same effect as the web and foes can still hit u if they are immobilized. (if you have doughts about this go test it you will see and can look at the 2 crossed chains icon and the name immobilize that comes up for the condition that the active F2 causes).

im sorry for you guys that missed all the conversations we had at launch it seems like some of you would have liked them and have been a great addition to them glad to know we still have good thinkers in our ranger community.

1. DONT make pets dodge when you dodge. Its just plain silly. It might sound like a nice thing to make your pet stay alive for 3 more seconds, but in reality you mess things up. Lets say you attack a target with your pet and the target swings for you and you dodge. Your pet also dodge instead of doing its job..!! It would just look hillarious from the point of the enemy lol!
Besides, your using your own dodges to micromanage your pet. What if you are the next target? You just used your dodge^^ Or your both targets..? Its just a mess!
And also, it would make the programmers waste countless hours making new dodgeanimations for the pets, instead of doing something useful.

Better to make all dmg to pets more then 500hp be ignored, even critical hits! But if critical hit then perhaps the pet can have 3 seconds with protection and perhap it will avoid combat for 1-2 seconds. Like a natural reaction to pain.
Condition dmg to pet should be reduced also.
And the agony dmg in fractals shouldnt affect the pet at all. As i suspect it doesnt affect summoned weapons, necro minions or ele minions, or even mesmer phantasms/clones! Make it fair.. Agony affects the ranger already.

2. It would be nice if we could preset the pet. Make it do more dmg/glasscannon, tanky or normal. And make it defensive (attack only targets that attacks the ranger or the pet.) or aggressive (attack all hostile enemies nearby that is engaged, even by other teammates). That way we can adjust them to our playstyle, and also adapt to the situations as we see fit.
If we could also be able to choose skills/elites for them then the better. Also the pets should just use the elites as first thing they do, and even on recharge. No need to push F2 anymore.

3. I would love to see the white tiger and the Lion back in the game.. But even more so i would LOVE to be able to get the Branded Skelk as pet!!! Or any Branded at all really, but the branded skelk is so assasin nice and cool i luuuve it^^ It can be some sort of elite pet and so hard to get, or expencive in BL as you make it. I would get one! lol

4. One last thing: The “elite skill” Rampage as one.. its not really elite. Look at the thief, ele or warriors, or any other proffesion in the game! They get 10 stacks of might, swiftness forever and fury and retaliation and more if they just swap weapon, or take on step forward, or even double this if they dodge or yawn or sing an oldi goldi^^
I really would love to see the ranger get Rampage as One if the pet died! As a reaction of rage and desperation! It would make the ranger more true and fun!

Good luck making the pets better for us all!

I want a lioooon…

By the way: The best if we can chose, whos dealing the damages. The Pet or Us.
If we chose ourself, then the pets only dealing a basic damage with basic conditions/buffs. (95-5%)
If we chose to be Beast Master, then the pets will do more damage and harder stuff, meanwhile we support our team in the back.
(50-50%).

+ agree with the eliteless Rampage as One.

In case you want to make the pet dodge. Instead of a dodge animation you could make the pet crouch down/duck for a short moment to escape the attack. That would not look hilarious like a pet dodging away.

RoyalPredator.9163:

I want a lioooon…

I read that as from the old Python skit ‘Scott! of the Sahara’.

“I WANT TO FIGHT THE LION!”

Just throwing my hat in the ring for faster F2’s! I’ve been mucking about for a while now, and I just cannot get my drakes to hit more than one critter with their breath reliably.

Reliably being the key word there. Can you get them to hit? Sure. But not two or more targets with any kind of good percentile. Shouldn’t the penalty of their long animation be enough? The activation window just seems pointless, as they’re not doing anything else while activating F2’s. F2’s with their animtions are “bad DPS”, as some folks would say.

I’m assuming you guys and gals have mathematical equations to balance damage/activation/recharge times? If not, this is how a few other notable games I’ve played achieved some semblance of balance. God, a real use for high level mathematics… My calc teachers were right.

We tend not to announce these things since issues can pop up and derail us. However this next patch’s time for the balance team is mostly spoken for already. We all acknowledge the core problems that are listed, but the fix isn’t just going to be someone changing a few numbers. The issue of pet AI is being worked on, but that is nothing new either – our tech-priests have been working on that problem for a while now.

I appreciate your candor Rob, and this isn’t directed at you, but I have to say this doesn’t fill me with confidence. Seven months after go live, our core mechanic is broken to the point of near worthless in certain aspects of the game. Every seasoned player of this game knows that rangers are broken in dungeons and wvw. Even the balance devs have admitted that ranger is the class in need of the most help. The fact that the fix is difficult doesn’t necessarily mean we have an unlimited amount of patience with it’s arrival. You have a limited pool of resources, I understand that, but they are obviously being invested in lots of different areas of the game other than this issue.

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

While i am pretty sure that Robert will not answer the post above, I wouuld like to say that I complately agree with it. Not tons of words, of proposals and other trash stuff – just raw truth. We re becoming desperate in this aspect Robert. So if u at least read this message please try to forward it to ones who is responsible for all this.

The fix may be difficult as hell, but that is not an excuse anymore – half a year passed and nothing had been done. That is the big problem.

neverborne.4736:

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

I think it’s been conclusively proven that Rangers are not a priority. Most in need does not equate to interest.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-Rangers-a-Priority-No/first#post1571153

And all Mr. Hrouda has promised is that he’ll ensure Ranger pets are discussed in balance meetings, but he has also told us that Ranger pets have been discussed many times before. Therefore, we can conclude that discussion does not equal intent to fix.

The main and major purpose of Mr. Hrouda’s involvement on this forum has been to relieve pressure and provide an outlet for player frustration. Sadly, nothing more.

Pedra.4381:

neverborne.4736:

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

I think it’s been conclusively proven that Rangers are not a priority. Most in need does not equate to interest.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-Rangers-a-Priority-No/first#post1571153

And all Mr. Hrouda has promised is that he’ll ensure Ranger pets are discussed in balance meetings, but he has also told us that Ranger pets have been discussed many times before. Therefore, we can conclude that discussion does not equal intent to fix.

The main and major purpose of Mr. Hrouda’s involvement on this forum has been to relieve pressure and provide an outlet for player frustration. Sadly, nothing more.

I dont want to agree with that but i have to. Looks like you’re right. That is even more shame on them to send someone to distract us and then continue to ignore our problems. But it won’t be long – you cant send someone all the time to provide an outlet. It may work once, but after the patch released with nothing again – frustration will grow even bigger. They even don’t imagine how desperate ppl will feel after being given a hope and then losing it. However not for the first time…

Pedra.4381:

neverborne.4736:

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

I think it’s been conclusively proven that Rangers are not a priority. Most in need does not equate to interest.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-Rangers-a-Priority-No/first#post1571153

And all Mr. Hrouda has promised is that he’ll ensure Ranger pets are discussed in balance meetings, but he has also told us that Ranger pets have been discussed many times before. Therefore, we can conclude that discussion does not equal intent to fix.

The main and major purpose of Mr. Hrouda’s involvement on this forum has been to relieve pressure and provide an outlet for player frustration. Sadly, nothing more.

I hate to say it but you are correct. I have seen this in many games, the latest being WOW with shaman. They had major problems and did nothing until people just quit playing them at all. I truly hope that is not what it is going to take to get this fixed but I fear it will.

The funny part is other classes keep getting work done on them and Rangers keep getting nerfed. I understand fixing a class that needs this much work is not easy but they need to make it a priority or it will always stay on the back burner.

SHOUTS BRAINSTORM

As all Shouts affect pets and lose all effectiveness when pet is dead, I can see why they are not used often. What about having a second skill on each Shout. A Vengeance Shout, where the Ranger can get a buff/give out a buff to Avenge it’s fallen pet. It would mean you wouldn’t have a useless skill on your bar during fights where your pet gets 1 shotted as soon as you throw him at a boss.

Ratty.5176:

SHOUTS BRAINSTORM

As all Shouts affect pets and lose all effectiveness when pet is dead, I can see why they are not used often. What about having a second skill on each Shout. A Vengeance Shout, where the Ranger can get a buff/give out a buff to Avenge it’s fallen pet. It would mean you wouldn’t have a useless skill on your bar during fights where your pet gets 1 shotted as soon as you throw him at a boss.

YES!!! Have Protect Me! Scale into “I will Avenge you!” And have it work so if you kill an enemy during X duration your pet gets healed to full health! BOOM “Protect Me!” Is not useful on every pet!

Maybe search and rescue can work as some sort of pull, where your pet an the body teleport to the rangers location? Or faster rezzing speed. Guards chain could grant retal and regen (or stability?) sick em could grant fury to you an the pet?

PS: before anyone goes “Ermergurd but I will Avenge You! Was a warrior skill!!” Well ignite arrows, and incindiary arrows were ranger skills and now warriors have those so they can get over it.

Pedra.4381:

neverborne.4736:

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

I think it’s been conclusively proven that Rangers are not a priority.

Not really sure how that is conclusive evidence of anything other than ANet are not good communicators.

Eurantien.4632:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

sjarulfa.2496:

PS – Robert, could you ask whoever deals with pet stats to see if the white raven (HoM) and regular raven have the same stats. Its often reported the white has less vit with no corresponding increase elsewhere.

that is something I can personally do

Both the white raven and the black raven share identical stats. There is no differences between them with the exception that one is black and one is white. Just cosmetic differences – all the numbers are the same.

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

This might cause some issues in PvP. Now players who have gotten this pet and the black widow in GW1 can have an advantage as raven is one of the hardest hitting birds and some players can now have 2 of them. The spider also has 2 immobilizes so now players get 2 of them. This seems a bit unfair that some players have access and others do not to these better pets in PvP. I do have these pets btw.

Edit: The guy below answered me. Thanks xev. I figured that was true anyway.

The Black Widow also has this problem with it’s stats in comparison to the Jungle Spider. I’ve personally bug reported it at least three times (once during the first week after launch, again a few months later and on the forum at least two times in its own thread, with details explaining the situation). Similar to the Rune of the Pack (which was fixed in a recent update) seeing the Black Widow HP bug in the game after ArenaNet really should be aware of it now, it just drives me insane. I’m going to start writing bug reports on walls over and over if it’s not fixed soon. I like the pet, but I can’t take one with such a dramatic HP difference to the jungle spider because of a bug.

I remember someone asking before launch if you could slot the same pet twice and one of the developers said you could. I assumed it was a bug when the game launched when I found out you couldn’t. Knowing how long major bugs stay around in this game without fixes(ranger players should be especially familiar with this – Lick Wounds), I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually a bug and not a design decision.

capuchinseven.8395:

Not really sure how that is conclusive evidence of anything other than ANet are not good communicators.

Well, not trying to insult you or anything; but the giant sledgehammer that hit the Ranger from Beta to launch as well as the patch notes since then speak for themselves in my humble opinion.

Crossfire nerf getting passed off as an ‘animation fix’ (and later called out on it) and general changes that affected other classes where the Ranger just happened to benefit from as well (projectile speed for bows and 25% movement signets for example). Some minor health changes to Spirits that doesn’t help us much and general nerfs every single patch (this one mostly on other classes except for Warriors) where it feels as if the balance team is completely disconnected from reality and doesn’t even know what they’re doing (Symbol of Wrath and Spirit Weapon sledgehammer-nerfs for Guardians for example).

Since launch of this game I have yet to see Jon ‘Warrior’ Peters and his friend the Invisible Thief deliver on their promise that the Ranger would see a lot of ‘quality of life’ changes.

As such I feel like the Ranger community has been more than patient. I have done my best in offering my own suggestions regarding changes to the pets/ranger damage output percentages, pet AI modes incorporating shouts and the current imbalance of signets. I mean I’ve worked on games in terms of balance and testing myself but everything offered so far seems to be ignored unless it’s ‘common sense’ changes like shared Agony Resist.

So I sincerely hope that this in not another smokescreen to distract us, just like Jon Peters was doing before he left the Ranger forums entirely after making too many empty promises.

Sorry for the elevated tone of this message by the way. It’s not directed at you capuchinseven.8395; just my general view on the matter regarding Rangers, ANet’s balance team in general and the way they seem to set their priorities.

To be honest, I’m about done with the Ranger Class in general.

I’ve spent a lot of time on the class coming up with different ways to make it work, and I see the glaring malfunctions with the class at the same time

most of the patches might improve something small here and there, But then Anet will turn around and absolutely gut some of our abilities/talents making it pointless to continue with a class that is generally bottom of the barrel.

all it takes really is to play another class, To truly realize how bad off the Ranger is in general.

I play my thief for example, Who can heal better, has better condition removal, better condition damage, better aoe.. far better survivability and isn’t burned by a shoddy pet system.

Thieves guild actually works better then our pets most of the time.

I’m currently leveling up a Guardian and Necromancer and i’m seeing the same thing as well…Class that just fundamentally better then the Ranger.

I know i should have expected this…in beta the Ranger was quite powerful because pets simply didn’t work, They didn’t work for pretty much most of the beta….and right at the end they improved them somewhat and then gutted most of the Rangers damage and called it a day…Completely ignoring the fact that the Pet system in general was frankly done kitten and is a poor excuse for a system.

capuchinseven.8395:

Pedra.4381:

neverborne.4736:

For a team as talented at yours, who created such a wonderful game, I have to believe that if ranger pet fixes were a top priority, they’d be completed very quickly.

I think it’s been conclusively proven that Rangers are not a priority.

Not really sure how that is conclusive evidence of anything other than ANet are not good communicators.

Succiently stated, if something is a priority, then it takes center stage over those things that are not.

Since we received none of the promised fixes while other classes have received fixes (and buffs), and Mr. Peter’s has been non-existent in this forum while very active in others, it’s conclusive: Rangers are not a priority for ArenaNet.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that Mr. Peters didn’t carry out his promise of improving our abilities.

Look at what he stated was a problem back then.

Shouts/Signets/Spirits

Only one shout got a buff, and its still bloody broken and buggy, The only other shout to get a buff was Guard, and it was nerfed and is now back to being terrible.

Signets, We received a speed boost on Signet of the Hunt, so did every other class, That was the only signet that was looked at…All the signets are still mainly used for their passives because the cooldowns are vastly longer then other classes.

Spirits, Still God Awful, and haven’t be improved worth anything…..Which frankly isn’t the most insulting part about it…The most insulting part about Spirits is watching the nitwits in the last State of Game joke about how “Well we don’t wanna do what we did to Spirits for Rangers where we nerfed them and people no longer use them anymore” acknowledging that they know Spirits are bloody useless, but not only that….REPEATING THE SAME MISTAKE with guardian spirit weapons….I mean..If that doesn’t tell you something is not right in the anet development area, i don’t know what does.

If you make a video talking about how you gutted something, you know what caused it to be gutted, and then 2 weeks later, you do the same thing to another class…I doesn’t relay a lot of confidence in your ability to be able to balance the game.

Since we received none of the promised fixes while other classes have received fixes (and buffs), and Mr. Peter’s has been non-existent in this forum while very active in others, it’s conclusive: Rangers are not a priority for ArenaNet.

Eh, that’s a very simplistic view of things.

Software design is iterative. Just because they don’t have a solution that works, doesn’t mean they haven’t had their nose to grindstone all this time. There’s also a frustrating menagerie of ‘hurry up and wait’ and ‘too many cooks’ to contend with, that means getting all hands on deck and banging it out faster just isn’t much of an option.

I mean, I understand where you’re coming from.
I’m squirming in impatience too. But, I don’t think the time frame is necessarily indicative of anything sinister.

The problem I feel is that they simply don’t want to play “Whack-a-Mole”.

Oh wait, what am I saying? They say they don’t want to play “Whack-a-Mole”, but they did it anyway, in the reverse direction.

Honestly I would very much like it if if they dedicate one monthly update to only class balance.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Eh, that’s a very simplistic view of things.

Software design is iterative. Just because they don’t have a solution that works, doesn’t mean they haven’t had their nose to grindstone all this time. There’s also a frustrating menagerie of ‘hurry up and wait’ and ‘too many cooks’ to contend with, that means getting all hands on deck and banging it out faster just isn’t much of an option.

I mean, I understand where you’re coming from.
I’m squirming in impatience too.

Ok, not sure I agree with you, but for sake of discussion, ok.

What would be really valuble to this community then would be a list of everything they’ve discussed in these numerous balance meetings (at it regards Rangers) and the logical explanations that apparently have prevented the fixes. I think we’re reasonble people (most of us) and if they’ve been trying (and failing) tell us that and share with us the hurdles to be overcome. Who knows, maybe someone that plays the Ranger in the real world might be able to offer some helpful suggestions.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Since we received none of the promised fixes while other classes have received fixes (and buffs), and Mr. Peter’s has been non-existent in this forum while very active in others, it’s conclusive: Rangers are not a priority for ArenaNet.

Eh, that’s a very simplistic view of things.

Software design is iterative. Just because they don’t have a solution that works, doesn’t mean they haven’t had their nose to grindstone all this time. There’s also a frustrating menagerie of ‘hurry up and wait’ and ‘too many cooks’ to contend with, that means getting all hands on deck and banging it out faster just isn’t much of an option.

I mean, I understand where you’re coming from.
I’m squirming in impatience too. But, I don’t think seven months is really indicative of anything.

With all due respect its a game, make a few changes and see if they work, if they don’t make a few more changes and on it goes. The problem here seems to be Ranger problems have all but been ignored. If they just changed the pet to player damage ratio to player 85 to 90% pet 10% to 15% I could at least live with a pet being dead a lot of the time. They have made Ranger damage so bad without the pet it is almost unplayable in a dungeon. Ranger utility is really not very good and the few things we do have are bugged or just bad. It has all been said here.

Once again here is hoping this thread will cause them to take action but I would not put money on it.

If Mr. Hrouda wants to share more, that’s great. But, he’s already basically given us an idea of where they’re at in the process so we can frame our discussion more relevantly. There’s really nothing stopping us from moving forward with suggestions.

I’m just curious what the reasoning is behind asking for ranger/pet damage to be split 90/10, or whatever – what does this solve, exactly? The current pet mechanic is simply broken; tweaking numbers isn’t going to address the core issues, it’ll just make us slightly less handicapped. I suspect that just tweaking the numbers would do absolutely nothing to address the desirability of rangers for groups, either – why bring a class that’s going to have 10-15% of its damage dead most of the time when you could have a class unburdened by a sad core mechanic?

xev.9476:

I’m just curious what the reasoning is behind asking for ranger/pet damage to be split 90/10, or whatever – what does this solve, exactly? The current pet mechanic is simply broken; tweaking numbers isn’t going to address the core issues, it’ll just make us slightly less handicapped. I suspect that just tweaking the numbers would do absolutely nothing to address the desirability of rangers for groups, either – why bring a class that’s going to have 10-15% of its damage dead most of the time when you could have a class unburdened by a sad core mechanic?

It lets the ranger compete. A ranger without pet damage is doing only 60% of the damage any other class is doing. I sorry but that is not acceptable as a matter of fact it is really very poor design. I can understand that they want the ranger to be a pet class and I chose it for that reason. However with damage that low on there own a ranger is just not worth taking into a dungeon. If the utility was good I might be able to live with it but even that is very bad.

xev.9476:

I’m just curious what the reasoning is behind asking for ranger/pet damage to be split 90/10, or whatever – what does this solve, exactly? The current pet mechanic is simply broken; tweaking numbers isn’t going to address the core issues, it’ll just make us slightly less handicapped. I suspect that just tweaking the numbers would do absolutely nothing to address the desirability of rangers for groups, either – why bring a class that’s going to have 10-15% of its damage dead most of the time when you could have a class unburdened by a sad core mechanic?

90/10 split ranger/pet would improve things a ton.

The sad part is their is not enough talent at anet to get pets working properly. Infact no company has been able to get a good AI programmed and some of them have a ton more resources. If they had then people wouldnt be looking to pvp for a challenge as a good ai could give it to them.

Their really is no chance of anet to get this right, and with wvw being an end game of theirs it is something they need to get the ranger working well in. I suppose I should be happy that no one can program a good ai, other wise we may have skynet and other nasty things.

Anet may have amazing people, although getting pets working right and in a timely manner just is not going to happen. Peters already proved what his word was worth.

90/10 split would only mask the problem and remove other options from Rangers.

xev.9476:

I’m just curious what the reasoning is behind asking for ranger/pet damage to be split 90/10, or whatever – what does this solve, exactly? The current pet mechanic is simply broken; tweaking numbers isn’t going to address the core issues, it’ll just make us slightly less handicapped. I suspect that just tweaking the numbers would do absolutely nothing to address the desirability of rangers for groups, either – why bring a class that’s going to have 10-15% of its damage dead most of the time when you could have a class unburdened by a sad core mechanic?

I’m sorry, but I read your post and I can take it two ways so not sure which of the two ways you meant to say it, but I’ll answer it in the way I think you meant to say it.

Currently, or last I heard, pet is responsible for 30 to 40% of the ranger’s damage, we’ll just say ~35%. A-Net said that this is a pet class and want us tied to the pet, which is why they gave part of our damage to pets. However, since the AI is so bad, a lot of ranger’s are asking for pets to do ~10% of the ranger’s damage and let the ranger’s have control of 90% of his damage. Only reason for the number’s is so ANet can keep face by still forcing the stupid pet onto us as a pet class but we will not be penalized as bad for ANet’s poor AI coding of pets. We will still be penalized by poor AI but not at the extent we currently are, it will be a more manageable number. It would be a ‘somewhat’ Win/Win scenario for anet and players. So to answer your question, that is what it “Solves”, somewhat fixing the class while letting ANet save face.

If we where to ask purely for our damage to be given to us 100% and to hell with pets like it SHOULD be, then ANet will not do it because it will be sort of like caving in to us and them breaking their “Idea” of what they want the ranger to be. It will also be a sting to them in the future as a failure which their programers could never fix, sorry, but they are to stubborn and to proud to admit failure, even though the failure is so apparent to people who aren’t even programers can see it. So we have to find a middle point with them…but even that isn’t working

Sebrent.3625:

90/10 split would only mask the problem and remove other options from Rangers.

I say go for it, its been long enough they should have resolved this by now. Once (ha) they get pets fixed then they can re work the beastmastery line and introduce pets back for those who would like to have a pet be a critical part of their build.

But right now, enough bs from them lets get a fix out and get us on equal ground with the other class’s.

Guys, i personally have a feeling that max that anet will do is to implement the ar for pets. Mb a dodge or something. But they will never give us 90-10% damage split. They wont redesign our traits and utilities. They will disappear again from ranger thread and live us complaining for ages. That is not going to help. If i am not mistaken there even was a petition signed by lots of players asking fixes for the class, offering solutions. And what? Silence. Silence is the best answer when you have nothing to say.

I like my pet doing damage. If I’m put on the defensive in a fight, I can line of sight my opponent while my pet continues to apply pressure.

I also like the fact that I can build myself to be quite tanky and my pet be the cannon.

I like that I can build myself to be condition damage and my pet provides the direct damage.

I like that I can provide the damage and my pet provides the control.

I hate when my pet acts “short bus special”.

There are several benefits to not minimizing the pet as a part of the Ranger.

If you take away the Ranger pet, what mechanic do we have? We become a Warrior in medium armor with no burst skills. Not a good plan.

Sebrent.3625:

I like my pet doing damage. If I’m put on the defensive in a fight, I can line of sight my opponent while my pet continues to apply pressure.

I also like the fact that I can build myself to be quite tanky and my pet be the cannon.

I like that I can build myself to be condition damage and my pet provides the direct damage.

I like that I can provide the damage and my pet provides the control.

I hate when my pet acts “short bus special”.

There are several benefits to not minimizing the pet as a part of the Ranger.

If you take away the Ranger pet, what mechanic do we have? We become a Warrior in medium armor with no burst skills. Not a good plan.

You may be right however it is better then nothing which at this point is what rangers have nothing. I would love for them to find a way for my pet to not die in 15 seconds. They claim they cant just change a few numbers to fix it. I truly believe that is true but the endless wait is getting old. At this point something is better then nothing.

I know you’re feeling impatient. We all are. But stop-gap measures are not the answer.

Seems like an easy solution would be to baseline the Ranger’s damage higher and the pets lower, and then offer a trait in beastmastery that allows you to flip it back.

For example: 90/10 split, UNLESS you take a tier 1 beast mastery skill that drops your personal damage by 20% and increases the pets by 200%. You could also easily slap that on as secondary effect of an existing trait like Masters Bond.

Best of both worlds. The 10 or so people out there who love their pets the way they are can keep them, while everybody else can move on with their lives.

They don’t want the pet to be “vestigial” so I know they won’t do this for us, but the truth is that our pets, as they currently stand, are EXTREMELY vestigial in end game content.

neverborne.4736:

Seems like an easy solution would be to baseline the Ranger’s damage higher and the pets lower, and then offer a trait in beastmastery that allows you to flip it back.

For example: 90/10 split, UNLESS you take a tier 1 beast mastery skill that drops your personal damage by 20% and increases the pets by 200%. You could also easily slap that on as secondary effect of an existing trait like Masters Bond.

Best of both worlds. The 10 or so people out there who love their pets the way they are can keep them, while everybody else can move on with their lives.

They don’t want the pet to be “vestigial” so I know they won’t do this for us, but the truth is that our pets, as they currently stand, are EXTREMELY vestigial in end game content.

Personally I believe this is the focus of Beastmaster traits which would allow a Ranger’s pet to become more effective. There’s no real need for a trait that would buff the pet and kitten the Ranger when Rangers can simply spend points in the BM trait-line to make his/her pet more effective.

A Ranger with points in BM would then have a more effective pet in terms of damage potential than one who does not spend any points in BM.

So I would welcome a 90/10 split. That way the player gets to decide if they want to focus mainly on their Ranger aspect or focus on their pet (or do a bit of both).

I get the feeling that while Hrouda means well and is being as genuine as he can be given how devs for MMOs can’t be totally transparent(for the sake of the game), that this thread is just damage control. If more players are displeased with Anet for ignoring a class in dire need of fixes, that has been in dire need of fixes since launch, that is surrounded by other classes in dire need of fixes… People are going to start quitting.

People who quit generally aren’t around to buy gems to acquire that shiny new dinky insert holiday here has brought along.

Maybe I’m not giving Anet enough credit. Maybe I’m just being paranoid. We’ll find out in due time through what is done(or not done) regarding the issues of Rangers.

Sebrent.3625:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sebrent.3625:

Robert Hrouda, could you please weigh in on whether or not things like the in-game advantages given by having HoM pets, etc. are also on the list of “issues” for the Ranger?

I think it would be beneficial if we knew where the community and the devs were on the same page. I think it’d be beneficial to the community to know what are the sort of things we know to simply “be patient” on. For example, we know to be patient on pet AI and pets have no Agony Resist in fractals. That’s comforting to know that those are acknowledged problems and being fixed.

Robert, it’s the fact that if I want two spider pets that have a stun, I have to have the Black Widow. If I want two ravens, I have to have the White Raven. If I want two Moas with a stun, I have to have the Black Moa.

These are in-game skill choices that are not available without having the HoM pets. It’s similar to saying someone can’t have a particular weapon as part of their second weapon set because they didn’t have enough HoM points. A Ranger without the Black Widow has only the Jungle Spider for a stun on F2. One with the Black Widow can use Jungle Spider to stun on F2 and then swap out to Black Widow to have another Spider pet with a stun on F2.

This is the in-game advantage from HoM that I was asking about.

Is this acknowledged as an issue?

If so, are there plans for:

• Being able to either take two of the same pet (i.e. both my terrestial slots are a cave spider)
• Being able to obtain the HoM pets through other means
• Being able to obtain new pets of the same family and with the same F2 skills as the HoM pets

Thanks.

Fun thought – Rangers can acquire pets through WvW Badges of Honor… or Laurels….

People will start quitting anyways if nothing will be fixed in the nearest future. There may be 3 Hroudas on this thread but if it remains only in words then people just wont listen to it anymore.

The thing is, the more you whine, kitten and moan, the less serious people take you… Forever complaining about something/someone is like crying wolf, at first it works, but not for long.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

I get the feeling that while Hrouda means well and is being as genuine as he can be given how devs for MMOs can’t be totally transparent(for the sake of the game), that this thread is just damage control. If more players are displeased with Anet for ignoring a class in dire need of fixes, that has been in dire need of fixes since launch, that is surrounded by other classes in dire need of fixes… People are going to start quitting.

People who quit generally aren’t around to buy gems to acquire that shiny new dinky insert holiday here has brought along.

Maybe I’m not giving Anet enough credit. Maybe I’m just being paranoid. We’ll find out in due time through what is done(or not done) regarding the issues of Rangers.

I think many of us agree with you. It was Peters, now it is Hrouda, tomorrow ot will be somebody else. We can see the result in patch notes.

may i remind you, that we have yet to see if Robert has “failed” us or not… The upcoming patch probably wont be dealing with too many of our issues, but if we set our sights at the april one, then i am pretty sure we can all agree that something should have been set in motion.

Anyway, if only one thing is fixed, it is by far better then getting nothing fixed