Guild Wars 2

They don’t seem to work or be remotely effective against other players in WvW or PvP but the pnjs or bots.

Apparently:

• They are too slow and when they come out the target is not there anymore.
• With food/trait/rune you get a shorter duration of the immo so you can walk away.
• Cleanses delete immo so you can walk away.
• Roots can be destroyed instantly even by random aoe not even your, and then you walk away.

So like seriously, what is the point to make all the fancy roots mechanic if later you just can ignore it completely.

So, could we get at least an special immo that can not be cleansed or affected by food/traits so the target has to kill the root?
And the roots can get the if not targeted 90% damage reduction treatment so they are not destroyed almost instantly by random AoE?

A fun idea I once had was that this root (Entangle in particular) would act like that of the Mordrem Leeching Thrasher’s root attack, following and attacking your target(s) within a small area while dealing its bleed/pulsing immobilize(/slow?) for a short duration.

The Ancient Seed version could probably just focus on the single target attacked after the usual CC (knockdown/knockback/daze, ect) while pulsing in a small radius where it was triggered or something.

Though, with this idea, there’s still little to do against Runes/Stunbreaks unless they use it while still sitting in the root’s AoE while its still pulsing. At least if someone stun-breaks+evades, they can get out, though…

anduriell.6280:

They don’t seem to work or be remotely effective against other players in WvW or PvP but the pnjs or bots.

Apparently:

• They are too slow and when they come out the target is not there anymore.
• With food/trait/rune you get a shorter duration of the immo so you can walk away.
• Cleanses delete immo so you can walk away.
• Roots can be destroyed instantly even by random aoe not even your, and then you walk away.

Totally agree. Basically, we have a GrandMaster Trait (Ancient Seeds) and an Elite skill??(Entangle) that applys 1 condition – Immobilize. I know theres bleed application too, but its appplication is over time, and sometimes you cant even get 3+ beleding stacks on enemy cuz the root is already broken.

Theres ALOT of skills/traits that remove/break the Immobilize condition, so its not hard for some1 to get out of our “Elite” or “GrandMaster” trait.

I wont lie, i dont think Ranger is that underpowered profession as people tend to say, and i LOVE the root idea. But it clearly needs a rework to be effective. Otherwise it will be usefull only on PVE.

….I’ve never noticed this to be a problem to pvp, especially vs single targets. I use longbow four then autoattack, and so many times the person just stands there if they’re don’t have a cleanse. I do see your point when there’s a teamfight, but I don’t think roots are underpowered.

Err its plenty strong in 1v1s. And it loses strength in team fights. That actually seems pretty fine to me. It has counterplay and yet when that counterplay isn’t met its effective enough to cause death. Seems to me thats how MOST skills in this game should be.

Shadelang.3012:

Err its plenty strong in 1v1s. And it loses strength in team fights. That actually seems pretty fine to me. It has counterplay and yet when that counterplay isn’t met its effective enough to cause death. Seems to me thats how MOST skills in this game should be.

You probably haven’t been playing against others than noobs that freeze as soon as they are immobilised. I’ve seen of those in WvW, they try to get off titling left to right.

Actually in PvP is even worst than in WvW so or you were very lucky or you are lying out loud.

So as i said What is the fring point of setting up the fancy root mechanic if the player can ignore it completely?

I mean they could make the root’s immo an special condition (like petrified and so) that immo you and can’t be cleansed or altered by food/runes so the target must to kill the root to get out (not like they don’t insta-die as soon as you hit them once) or stay put for 5 seconds while still can attack or cast skills. Why don’t do they?

Because right now with rune + traits + food you can get up to -80% condition duration…
So you can walk out like there is nothing there.
OR the resistance that make you ignore immo as well.
ShadowStep. Teleport. Blinks.

The ranger has too many fantastic ideas that could make the profession very interesting to play with but i’m tired of see this crap all the time in every single option the ranger is supposed to have.

• You got a nice cleave with the sword BUT you’ll get lock out as soon as you hit the AA.
• You got a nice axe that bounce between targets but you get a incomprehensible delay and weird slow cast animations.
• You got nice cleanses for conditions but they they will be locked in the same traitline so you must or to take that one or to take the same one.
• Shouts? if they seem useful let’s put them in an absurd cooldown of 60 seconds or more or some weird conditions to meet so we are shure they aren’t used.
• you got… (well we know there is a lot of crap like this).

The roots are fine the way they are. As Shadelang wrote, the trait excels in low man encounters but more easily gets nuked when you add more players. If an opponent is running enough to get 80% reduction on condi’s, then I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see him ignore my roots; he is indeed built to be as anti condi as possible. On the flip side though, we have the same tools to bump our condi duration by an additional 80% as well (came out to 77.27% on a super rough draft).

Blinks, shadow steps, resistance? Anticipate them, or better yet, bait them out. Granted some classes have more readily access to these tools than others. In which case, the timing on the baits/anticipation is tighter than other opponents would be.

It’s not the world’s greatest game changing trait, but it’s definitely not worthless.

anduriell.6280:

Shadelang.3012:

Err its plenty strong in 1v1s. And it loses strength in team fights. That actually seems pretty fine to me. It has counterplay and yet when that counterplay isn’t met its effective enough to cause death. Seems to me thats how MOST skills in this game should be.

You probably haven’t been playing against others than noobs that freeze as soon as they are immobilised. I’ve seen of those in WvW, they try to get off titling left to right.

Actually in PvP is even worst than in WvW so or you were very lucky or you are lying out loud.

So as i said What is the fring point of setting up the fancy root mechanic if the player can ignore it completely?

I mean they could make the root’s immo an special condition (like petrified and so) that immo you and can’t be cleansed or altered by food/runes so the target must to kill the root to get out (not like they don’t insta-die as soon as you hit them once) or stay put for 5 seconds while still can attack or cast skills. Why don’t do they?

Because right now with rune + traits + food you can get up to -80% condition duration…
So you can walk out like there is nothing there.
OR the resistance that make you ignore immo as well.
ShadowStep. Teleport. Blinks.

The ranger has too many fantastic ideas that could make the profession very interesting to play with but i’m tired of see this crap all the time in every single option the ranger is supposed to have.

• You got a nice cleave with the sword BUT you’ll get lock out as soon as you hit the AA.
• You got a nice axe that bounce between targets but you get a incomprehensible delay and weird slow cast animations.
• You got nice cleanses for conditions but they they will be locked in the same traitline so you must or to take that one or to take the same one.
• Shouts? if they seem useful let’s put them in an absurd cooldown of 60 seconds or more or some weird conditions to meet so we are shure they aren’t used.
• you got… (well we know there is a lot of crap like this).

First off lay off the insults mate no need for them.

I have been on BOTH ends of this skill mechanic quite a bit. You kind of HAVE to be after playing mostly PvP for 3 years. And im good enough to hit legendary tier on a HEAVILY sub optimal build through solo que. Unless you want to claim I got THAT by luck too you can bite me.

First. The mechanic itself is sound as well as the basis behind it. Yes they could make it so that killing the roots is the only way to break it. As soon as they fix immobilization in general not to bug you out if you use a leap skill inside them or if you were in the air when they hit.

But yes I agree that would work. Oh and as soon as they make them more readily hittable by certain ranged weapons since last I checked the roots appear inside and slightly behind your hit box if your moving. Meaning a ranged weapon simply won’t be able to target them if your moving forward when they hit. (Guaranteed way to bug out if your hit while using swoop to close on another ranger)

Theres stuff they need to fix BEFORE they get rid of its ability to be cleansed or its going to reveal alot of bugs that at the moment just aren’t encountered often enough for people to really complain about them.

Second. There nature of easily being cleansed isn’t exactly a fault of the skill. But more that the meta has moved beyond them due to the fact that there are more methods of dealing with things like immob than there used to be…ALOT more. But then skills get left behind in the meta all the time. Remember when empathetic bond was considered mandatory?

Third. Ancient seeds is already an EXTREMELY powerful trait in PvP. Enough so that nearly every druid build uses it. Its obviously not under performing. Even if the enemy breaks out of it they burned a cooldown to do so.

Entangle is in a less alright position. Thats due to the fact that it has a cast time where ancient seeds procs immediately on you hitting a target. That means that there is time for entangle to be blocked/dodged/blinded where as ancient seeds by its very nature CAN’T be.

Yes you can get high condi reduction. But hey you can get high condi DURATION as well if you were bothered to. If there going to put in the traits,sigils,food to counter you and you aren’t willing to do the same then thats your own kitten fault. The tools are there for you to use. If they have no synergy with your build. Then you need to take another look at what your trying to do.

Shadowstep Blink and Teleport are all cooldowns that you forced an enemy to burn. If immobilizing them was your only trick then again. You need to look at what your doing. You were probably going to lose that fight anyway. EVERY skill is meant to be counterable. Its how the game works. When something doesn’t have a counter is when there is a problem.

Does immob have too many counters? Hell if I know I am not on the balance team. But then neither are you.

The rest of your post is irrelevant. And was just a way for you to vent out your frustrations using me as a target. Don’t really appreciate it but hey as long as you feel better. Ill go ahead and address them.

First. The profession IS interesting to play for many people. So I am not sure where your leading with that.

Second. The swords BIGGEST strength is its ability to stick to its target and deal high single target dps. Which is the very thing that some rangers hate. But for years its been considered a l2p issue. Most people turn off the auto cast and seem to be doing just fine. But then its not a meta PvP weapon for other reasons.

Third. Yeah the axe is bad except in VERY niche builds/situations heres hoping for changes in the future. Its problems however have nothing to do with the rest of this post though.

Four. There are other condi clear options. Evasive Purity is AWESOME. The druid line also has several really good methods. Shouts with trooper runes lets you strip pretty much anything except a condi bomb. Infact Trooper runes + evasive purity gives you enough to clear just about ANY control conditions youl get nailed with or even most damaging condis. None of those are in the WK line.

Five. Speaking of shouts with trooper runes thats what I used to get to legendary and also what ive been playing most of the time for 3 years now. Worked pretty kitten well on anything that wasn’t a tempest. Search and Rescue is terrible on its current cooldown but the others worked fine its trait version (Natures Aid i think?) is also commonly used. Protect Me is getting its rework and at least for now it SEEMS like its rework will be fine. Not sure where you were going with this anyway.

If youd brought up the shouts before HoT I might of agreed with you (but they fixed sic em and are working on protect me…im gonna wait and see on how S&R turns out and if they do anything to Guard)…oh wait before HoT was when almost every ranger was running Entangle…huh.

Main problem is the use of both runes and traits that shortens the duration of any condition, including immobilize. Anyone who uses one of these just walk straight out of the roots as if they aren’t there. Quite an easy denial of a grandmaster trait (ancient seeds) with a good potential.

I never get hit by those dumb roots. Rarely do they do the job they are supposed to.

It’s a weird cast for sure, and then it takes its slow @ $ $ time as it travels across the ground.

If you are in a good group fight in pvp, where everyone is running in circles, GOOD luck getting that to hit anyone or anything.

This is just like every mmo before. They give you a cool form of CC but then decide, that they need to give everyone a way to ignore it or get out of it. It’s happened in most if not all the mmos I’ve played in the last 15 years

So…Ancient Seeds/Entangle, skills that aren’t used for direct Condition damage but to snare targets are going to require significant Condi-duration investments to make them worthwhile against anyone who traits for negative condi-duration (and that’s before factoring in any ease in destroying roots themselves)…?

Sounds like the Elite/GM Trait has a little too much counterplay. Yeah, you can Stunbreak/Cleanse, Shadowstep, ect, or trait against duration, but at least those cost you a cooldown or resource of some kind. The fact that you can destroy the root on top of that (or with all the AoE in group fights, have it done by some other source) does seem like a bit much.

I bring Entangle no matter my build, either as a condi ranger, or a zerk ranger. My reasonings were simple at the time when thieves where the meta they would always be able to steal my stability and use it against me with their sleight of hand. So I saw Strength of the Pack as useless. Necs can corrupt it, it’s what i do when i am on my nec, and I see a ranger use that elite (he can send your roots back to you.. but getting terrored is worse imo).

But the one thing alot of people forget … roots is unblockable. When I see a guard, warrior using shield, or Revvy in that crystal hibernation, I drop roots on em to lock em place. Also roots also hits enemies without line of sight. Yup.. so even if the enemy is stealthed they still get nailed. Finally, roots even hits in a sphere. Behind a wall? No problem they can’t hit you, but you can hit them with roots. They on a floor above or below? Root them. sometimes it confuses them or something they are unexpecting, and may tip the battle in your allies favor if used.. or gives you breathing room. I like to cast Entangle even if they stealthed but I know they are nearby or if enemy is above me, then drop barrage ontop of them. (usually after wolf howl somtimes if it’s ready)

Traited, roots also works as a condi cleanse, and gives you fury. So yea I never cared for SoP. Since I have over a half a dozen ways to evade, block, or use signets/wilderness skills to mitigate damage from condi to spikes.

Favorite combo as my longbow ranger was/is point black shot, into entangle, followed by howl from my wolf, into rapid fire, followed by swoop, pommel bash, then maul. If the whole thing hits the enemy is usually dead or near it, even if tanky. Not saying that combo is easy to pull off, but its what I like to do cause it’s fun

Course now with trait they will get entangled if you do point black shot… but if they get out of it.. just wait then hit them with your Entangle. Catching them again.. hehe
Immo is a conditoin, true, but unlike terror, a stunblock does not remove them. Which is perfect against so many enemies cause half the time they are running stability

Oh one more thing, if the roots are not destroyed they also work as a minor area denial.. meaning even if the thief shadowsteps out of them. If he goes back he’s caught by the roots cause they were lingering still… etc The enemy has to be careful not to walk back into them cause it will catch him again even after he’s escaped. Or at least that’s what used to happen ^^

edit: (one more thing, immo condition stacks, which is why before some rangers brought the spider, or the krytan hound, and Muddy terrain which is a wilderness skill, and benefits from the trait)

They could simply increase the first pulse of immobilize to 3sec. Someone under -% immobilize effect will eat at least 1sec. If the ranger invests a modest 33% condi duration that would be another 1sec of immobilize.

After the first pulse or two, their -% immobilze duration would then take effect and allow them to leave.

Justine.6351:

They could simply increase the first pulse of immobilize to 3sec. Someone under -% immobilize effect will eat at least 1sec. If the ranger invests a modest 33% condi duration that would be another 1sec of immobilize.

After the first pulse or two, their -% immobilze duration would then take effect and allow them to leave.

Not a bad idea. It leaves the already existing counterplay alone. Just makes sure that the first immob has atleast a second of effect (Which is enough to disrupt someones entire combo and throw there cooldowns off sync). And it doesn’t further punish anyone that gets bugged out in them more than the current roots do.

EnderzShadow.2506:

I never get hit by those dumb roots. Rarely do they do the job they are supposed to.

It’s a weird cast for sure, and then it takes its slow @ $ $ time as it travels across the ground.

If you are in a good group fight in pvp, where everyone is running in circles, GOOD luck getting that to hit anyone or anything.

This is just like every mmo before. They give you a cool form of CC but then decide, that they need to give everyone a way to ignore it or get out of it. It’s happened in most if not all the mmos I’ve played in the last 15 years

I think you’re talking about the staff 4, not the Elite skill or the Grandmaster trait.

anduriell.6280:

They don’t seem to work or be remotely effective against other players in WvW or PvP but the pnjs or bots.

Apparently:

• They are too slow and when they come out the target is not there anymore.
• With food/trait/rune you get a shorter duration of the immo so you can walk away.
• Cleanses delete immo so you can walk away.
• Roots can be destroyed instantly even by random aoe not even your, and then you walk away.

So like seriously, what is the point to make all the fancy roots mechanic if later you just can ignore it completely.

So, could we get at least an special immo that can not be cleansed or affected by food/traits so the target has to kill the root?
And the roots can get the if not targeted 90% damage reduction treatment so they are not destroyed almost instantly by random AoE?

you forgot you mention they can also be knockbacked or pulled out of the roots

one of the issues I have with it is that for instance you have an barrage out and use point blank shot he will be rooter and knocked out of the roots similar things tend to happen in pvp when U just use poin blank and rf or just shoot normaly

so stupid to have a gm trait that can be negated so easaly knockback pull dmg honestly I wouldnt even be suprised if fear broke the roots aswell since pretty much any other cc does (my own not enemy) and they can also just destroy the roots that so all in all its a pretty much point less trait

Fear doesn’t break the roots. And if you have a problem with knocking your enemy out of the roots there is a very simple solution: Don’t use a knockback in those situations.
(I can’t count how often an enemy ranger saved me from his own roots …).

While I don’t agree with a lot of the OP’s over-dramatization, I just wanted to add to HeadCrowned’s point. Roots/seeds becomes ineffective against any target running -33% debilitating condi traits (or slightly less reduction via. food/util). You can walk out of the first pulse.

aB EXT.1287:

While I don’t agree with a lot of the OP’s over-dramatization, I just wanted to add to HeadCrowned’s point. Roots/seeds becomes ineffective against any target running -33% debilitating condi traits (or slightly less reduction via. food/util). You can walk out of the first pulse.

We know, but shhhhh!

Ppl will tell you to use condi duration foods/runes even if your running a Power build…

WilnerGW.3275:

aB EXT.1287:

While I don’t agree with a lot of the OP’s over-dramatization, I just wanted to add to HeadCrowned’s point. Roots/seeds becomes ineffective against any target running -33% debilitating condi traits (or slightly less reduction via. food/util). You can walk out of the first pulse.

We know, but shhhhh!

Ppl will tell you to use condi duration foods/runes even if your running a Power build…

Entangle is a condition based skill, soooo….

So Fuzzy Pop.1384:

EnderzShadow.2506:

I never get hit by those dumb roots. Rarely do they do the job they are supposed to.

It’s a weird cast for sure, and then it takes its slow @ $ $ time as it travels across the ground.

If you are in a good group fight in pvp, where everyone is running in circles, GOOD luck getting that to hit anyone or anything.

This is just like every mmo before. They give you a cool form of CC but then decide, that they need to give everyone a way to ignore it or get out of it. It’s happened in most if not all the mmos I’ve played in the last 15 years

I think you’re talking about the staff 4, not the Elite skill or the Grandmaster trait.

uh yeah I was— my bad.

Elite skill, works good enough.

The grandmaster trait, unless you’re running longbow, it’s worthless.

Ha! I just came here to ask what the new build was with unlimited roots. I’d say they’re fine. Unless you are built for tons of cleanse or anti immob they are pretty brutal.