Guild Wars 2

The short bow has had its rate of attack and range nerfed. Please extend the range back to 1200.

Note also that quickness has been nerfed and the BM quickness trait moved to the GM slot. This combined with the nerfs to the weapon itself has made SB quite weak. It has gone from ranger’s best weapon to mediocre. It wasn’t even OP to start with, it was just better than our other choices.

There is a lot more I could say about the SB and how it compares to other classes weapons, but seriously you have gone too far with the nerfs in this case.

Please at least put the range back to 1200.

Yeah I pretty much gave up on SB.

Wouldn’t mind if Eagle Eye extends it back to 1200.

I use short bow and Axe/Axe. I wouldn’t mind a trait for greater range, but anything with a brain is gonna come running at me anyway, so an extra 300 range at the outset is not gonna make that much difference to me dodge-weave-arrow -in-the-face routine .

You might get 1000 to make it the same as warrior longbow, but Anet won’t give back 1200. The shortbow is a mobility weapon, similar to thief shortbow, and mobility fits a short/mid range weapon better. Thieves are far worse off with a 900m maximum on all their weapons and they are not going to get extra range on their shortbow either.

Stooperdale.3560:

You might get 1000 to make it the same as warrior longbow, but Anet won’t give back 1200. The shortbow is a mobility weapon, similar to thief shortbow, and mobility fits a short/mid range weapon better. Thieves are far worse off with a 900m maximum on all their weapons and they are not going to get extra range on their shortbow either.

You can try and rationalize it, but it was a mobility weapon all along and started with 1200, and had that range for a long time. Thief SB has always been 900 range, and has incredibly powerful utility, aoe, and auto damage. That is, at least in part, why it had a 900 range to start with and why it is appropriate.

SB has been nerfed so hard that now, as you can see, people say it is not worth using anymore. Its not like rangers were ripping everyone up with SB in the past in spvp, in fact rangers were considered a weak class when the SB was at its peak.

I saw no overwhelming complaints about SB range from the community- unlike say for eles when they were totally OP, and basically everyone was complaining about it.

The main thing I saw was rangers complaining about long bow being weak, and I see the nerf to SB as a mainly a response to this, giving LB a boost by weakening SB. And I don’t like it and I don’t think it is balanced.

SB has been over-nerfed, please give the signature ranger weapon (SB) some love.

Used to use the shortbow all the time, now it’s just meh !

Much like the rest of our weapons, mediocre damage.

Have to agree, cant go with a short bow when a long bow has so much more range on it. We have a lot of other options at 900 and under.

Apparently short-bow is supposed to be a skirmish weapon, not a range DPSer, yet it has better DPS than LB(lolwut?), but it could use some damage and stronger utilities for WvW.

900 is okay, 1000 would be really strong. Seriously, you want to make SHORTbow same range as LB? Then give LB some kitten fixes , because SB would outshine LB everywhere

The idea of eagle eye working on both weapons makes some sense. If shortbow is 1200 then longbow is 1500. However….would probably be too strong on a person that uses both. Maybe switch out remorseless for a shortbow 1200 range trait ..does anyone use remorseless?? edit: I’d like to see them demote signet of the beastmaster to master too, so you could get both.

No, I’d give longbow a range of 2000, but apparently it “breaks the game mechanics” whatever the hell that means. Doesn’t make much sense how I can throw an axe as far as I can shoot a bow.

I was gonna say the SB is fine, but then I realised I havent used it in a very very long time. So I will say nothing :X

And plz dont bring axe into this conversation, I don’t want them to nerf axe to 600 range LOL

kiwituatara.6053:

I was gonna say the SB is fine, but then I realised I havent used it in a very very long time. So I will say nothing :X

And plz dont bring axe into this conversation, I don’t want them to nerf axe to 600 range LOL

If they make it a real Condi heavy weapon, i wouldn’t mind 600 range.

Remorseless is and will be useless until we get some hard-hitting skill for Longbow.

Yasha.5963:

The main thing I saw was rangers complaining about long bow being weak, and I see the nerf to SB as a mainly a response to this, giving LB a boost by weakening SB. And I don’t like it and I don’t think it is balanced.

The buff they gave longbow (decreased autoattack interval from 1.25 sec to 1.00 sec) gives it just about the same DPS as shortbow + bleed (which is better depends on your build). So it’s absolutely untrue that they boosted LB by weakening SB. The two changes just happened to be implemented at the same time.

I still equip a shortbow when I know I’ll be fighting in close quarters against a single target that I want to keep at range. e.g. the Scarlet fight at the end of the playhouse. Of our three ranged weapons, longbow’s damage is reduced at close range, and axe doesn’t do enough DPS against a single target. That makes SB the best choice in those situations.

I think SB should be 1200 and LB 1500 base and that the increased range trait be changed to something else. Ranger is, after all, supposed to be the ranged heavy hitter.

Solandri.9640:

Yasha.5963:

The main thing I saw was rangers complaining about long bow being weak, and I see the nerf to SB as a mainly a response to this, giving LB a boost by weakening SB. And I don’t like it and I don’t think it is balanced.

The buff they gave longbow (decreased autoattack interval from 1.25 sec to 1.00 sec) gives it just about the same DPS as shortbow + bleed (which is better depends on your build). So it’s absolutely untrue that they boosted LB by weakening SB. The two changes just happened to be implemented at the same time.

I still equip a shortbow when I know I’ll be fighting in close quarters against a single target that I want to keep at range. e.g. the Scarlet fight at the end of the playhouse. Of our three ranged weapons, longbow’s damage is reduced at close range, and axe doesn’t do enough DPS against a single target. That makes SB the best choice in those situations.

Well they have said that the reason for the shortbow nerf was to make the Longbow look better.

To the person who made the comparison to a thief: we’re rangers. We’re supposed to be kings/queens of range. The fact that our shortbow is somewhat worse than theirs is just disappointing. Compare our longbow to warriors too if you’d like.

Kilandros.2098:

I think SB should be 1200 and LB 1500 base and that the increased range trait be changed to something else. Ranger is, after all, supposed to be the ranged heavy hitter.

truth here. Also, +1 and 15 chars. rawr.

It’s embarrassing that the warrior has two ranged weapons that shoot further than the ranger.

Short bow never should have been nerfed. They failed in longbow design so they made the shortbow worse to force the longbow. That’s actually what they said. Since then the longbow got more buffs (it fires faster and now has stealth) but the shortbow was left in limbo. In sPvP it’s not that much of an issue and that’s why you will likely never see action on this. The game is balanced around sPvP and PvE game balance is the lowest priority. Don’t expect the shortbow to get 1,200 range unless the sPvP side of the game needs it.

Short bow’s range is fine at its current default…but it DOES need the boost in range from the same trait that does it to LB. One of the main problems with short bow’s range originally was that it had the same range as the longbow unless traited, so it outshined the LB just due to the fact that it could DPS faster and outdo the longbow’s damage easily originally. I have a feeling they changed the range so that wouldn’t happen again when they also buffed the LB, and so the bows don’t seem as similar as they were before, at least in range. I do believe that the trait that increases the LB’s range DOES need to effect the SB as well, though.

To be honest, short bow is pretty strong even on 900 range. I agree with the opinion that with shortbow at 1,200 range, the longbow looks rather lackluster. However, it’s a pity that longbow damage is penalized at shorter ranges. That said, with the right build the shortbow is VERY strong (say, condition hybrid or full condition builds-probably even good with power builds.)

I feel they should improve the longbow further but agree that the trait that affects longbow range should also affect the shortbow, even if so slightly more.

Wish the range penalty was more at point-blank spacing for the poor Longbow. I actually like the weapon, but almost never use it because my short bow really does better for my playstyle and builds. The sweet evade on 3 works like a charm, plus those easy combo finishers. But for sure longbow has its uses, as it should (I rather have them improve the LB than nerf the SB.)

stale.9785:

Kilandros.2098:

I think SB should be 1200 and LB 1500 base and that the increased range trait be changed to something else. Ranger is, after all, supposed to be the ranged heavy hitter.

truth here. Also, +1 and 15 chars. rawr.

Yea, was going to post that too.

SB Default to 1200 again, LB default to 1500, and eagle eye goes bye bye. You put the 5% damage bonus onto spotter instead to justify it’s master tier.

Fomby.4295:

No, I’d give longbow a range of 2000, but apparently it “breaks the game mechanics” whatever the hell that means. Doesn’t make much sense how I can throw an axe as far as I can shoot a bow.

I think by breaks game mechanics it probably means the reset on PvE creatures and/or it would cause issue in already established sPvP maps.

Heiltdo.2891:

Apparently short-bow is supposed to be a skirmish weapon, not a range DPSer, yet it has better DPS than LB(lolwut?), but it could use some damage and stronger utilities for WvW.

Don’t say that all you will do is get the short bow’s rate of fire and/or damage lowered.

Fordel.3208:

stale.9785:

Kilandros.2098:

I think SB should be 1200 and LB 1500 base and that the increased range trait be changed to something else. Ranger is, after all, supposed to be the ranged heavy hitter.

truth here. Also, +1 and 15 chars. rawr.

Yea, was going to post that too.

SB Default to 1200 again, LB default to 1500, and eagle eye goes bye bye. You put the 5% damage bonus onto spotter instead to justify it’s master tier.

Yes this sounds like an excellent idea, and the increase in range to longbow is what I expected to happen, not another nerf to SB.

Funny I’d rather it have faster rate of fire than extended range

Ranger killed because of a range nerf? Get off the Kool-Aid man, it’s not that kitten bad. RARELY are you ever able to keep 1200 against enemies in dungeons outside of bosses, and in WvW that condition damage that hits ONE ENEMY won’t help you much. Stop QQing when the SB is still a viable weapon.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Ranger killed because of a range nerf? Get off the Kool-Aid man, it’s not that kitten bad. RARELY are you ever able to keep 1200 against enemies in dungeons outside of bosses, and in WvW that condition damage that hits ONE ENEMY won’t help you much. Stop QQing when the SB is still a viable weapon.

No one on this thread said ranger “was killed because of SB nerf”. And I do not see how anything in your comment justifies the series of nerfs, both direct and indirect, that SB has suffered. You are asking me to shut-up because ranger can’t keep 1200 range and the condition damage applies to only one enemy (in bold for some reason)? Doesn’t make any sense. Why not just make it a melee weapon given that logic?

The point is that at the SB was not OP at release. It has been nerfed by 1) reduced rate of fire, 2) quickness nerfed by 50%, 3) quickness BM trait moved to GM trait, and 4) range reduced by a quarter.

I do not understand why a non-OP weapon has to be so heavily nerfed, and certainly the range nerf is just completely unjustified.

Yasha.5963:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Ranger killed because of a range nerf? Get off the Kool-Aid man, it’s not that kitten bad. RARELY are you ever able to keep 1200 against enemies in dungeons outside of bosses, and in WvW that condition damage that hits ONE ENEMY won’t help you much. Stop QQing when the SB is still a viable weapon.

No one on this thread said ranger “was killed because of SB nerf”. And I do not see how anything in your comment justifies the series of nerfs, both direct and indirect, that SB has suffered. You are asking me to shut-up because ranger can’t keep 1200 range and the condition damage applies to only one enemy (in bold for some reason)? Doesn’t make any sense. Why not just make it a melee weapon given that logic?

The point is that at the SB was not OP at release. It has been nerfed by 1) reduced rate of fire, 2) quickness nerfed by 50%, 3) quickness BM trait moved to GM trait, and 4) range reduced by a quarter.

I do not understand why a non-OP weapon has to be so heavily nerfed, and certainly the range nerf is just completely unjustified.

Actually, there WAS a comment right above mine saying Ranger was dead because of the SB nerf, but it appears to have been deleted. I probably should have quoted.

To be fair, the problem with SB was always the same : auto-attack. It’s basiclly faceroll damage, working incredibly well with power, much better than Longbow. Skill ceiling of SB is kind of non-existing if you don’t go for flanking bleeding. From my experience, it’s just more rewarding to run around target, spamming #1 shot than swapping to LB to burst. As it was and is a big problem, they’re trying to reduce ranged-like effectivness of SB, as you don’t really flank going for further distance and make it something it was, I believe, meant to be – condition short range skirmish weapon, oriented in nearly melee encounters when you have possibility to hop on foe’s back.

I would trade all of the above for the following mechanic/s:

Long Draw Using the “range meter” of siege weapons, a ranger can increase the damage of each auto bow (short and long) attack by up to 200% but at a cost of cast time tbd how much time.
Condition:
1) Once you begin a Long Draw you are rooted until the shot hits the target and are subject to double damage.

This would be a “I saw you first” way of dropping enemy health quickly.

Single Focus: With your pet on GUARD, you can direct more focus to precise ranged shots and critical blows with melee weapons. All ranged weapons get a 50% more critical damage. All melee weapons get 50% more critical chance.
That isn’t quite 1:1 return on damage for the pet but it can be boosted by the right type of build (zerker etc) and signals.

a. It takes 10 seconds to get a pet “off guard”. You lose your single focus immediately.

4500 range of LB? For what sake? Striking Tequatl from the turrets’ place ?

The range on shortbow isn’t a problem. Yes, the weapon is less useful now. Yes, eagle eye should be changed to affect shortbow.

The real issue with the shortbow range adjustment is how it’s the same as the Axe and how the two weapons are so similar in function.

The thing you all need to do is find a way to make the Shortbow and Axe feel like different and equally viable weapons. Couldn’t care less if you change the bow or the axe.

Bombsaway.7198:

Long Draw Using the “range meter” of siege weapons, a ranger can increase the damage of each auto bow (short and long) attack by up to 200% but at a cost of cast time tbd how much time.
Condition:
1) Once you begin a Long Draw you are rooted until the shot hits the target and are subject to double damage.

This would be a “I saw you first” way of dropping enemy health quickly.

I love the idea of a charge-up power attack for ranger, with a damage bonus depending on how long you can hold it… however, being rooted alone is enough to mean death in pvp let alone any kind of damage vulnerability. Ranger longbow is hard enough to kite with as-is.

The problem is that long range shot kind of serves the purpose of single-shot burst at long range, but because it’s an auto attack it just doesn’t hit hard enough in that single shot. It wouldn’t be balanced if it was too powerful because it has no cooldown.

Rapid fire feels too much like shortbow, as much as I love killing glass thieves in wvw with it. Longbow needs something more like warrior’s Kill Shot.

Rym.1469:

To be fair, the problem with SB was always the same : auto-attack. It’s basiclly faceroll damage, working incredibly well with power, much better than Longbow. Skill ceiling of SB is kind of non-existing if you don’t go for flanking bleeding. From my experience, it’s just more rewarding to run around target, spamming #1 shot than swapping to LB to burst. As it was and is a big problem, they’re trying to reduce ranged-like effectivness of SB, as you don’t really flank going for further distance and make it something it was, I believe, meant to be – condition short range skirmish weapon, oriented in nearly melee encounters when you have possibility to hop on foe’s back.

It was intended to have a 1200 range-that’s why it did have a 1200 range. You guys just make things up, seriously. Faceroll damage? Power? Its best used in spvp as a condition stacking weapon. It used to be able to burst with power when we had 100% quickness, the quickness trait in 5points BM, and a more rapid rate of fire- even then it was probably better used to stack bleeds though.

Also you say “just more rewarding to run around target, spamming #1 shot than swapping to LB to burst….it was and is a big problem”. None of the nerfs to SB change this. You want to change that dynamic give the weapon some synergy outside of pressing 1 and 5 to interrupt. If you make it so that it is useless at doing what it was made to do (as you are suggesting) it just becomes a useless weapon.

Now, I don’t think it is useless, far from it, but the combined effect of the nerfs has made it mediocre. Give it back range, or even putting the quickness trait back to 5 BM and it would shine again.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Short bow’s range is fine at its current default…but it DOES need the boost in range from the same trait that does it to LB. One of the main problems with short bow’s range originally was that it had the same range as the longbow unless traited, so it outshined the LB just due to the fact that it could DPS faster and outdo the longbow’s damage easily originally. I have a feeling they changed the range so that wouldn’t happen again when they also buffed the LB, and so the bows don’t seem as similar as they were before, at least in range. I do believe that the trait that increases the LB’s range DOES need to effect the SB as well, though.

The long bow does more DPS than the shortbow if you discount bleeds.

I think eagle eye is a horrible trait. The increased range on the shortbow definitely matters but on the longbow it hard marginal use in WvW and doesn’t really matter in PvE unless you want to lame world bosses by standing outside their maximum range. Currently Eagle Eye competes with both piercing arrows (fundamental for effective bow use in PvE) and Spotter (the most useful tool a ranger has to contribute to a group). It has even more competition if you use signets, one of the few viable power builds.

Allowing eagle eye to boost the shortbow range to it’s former not OP state would solve nothing because the 20 and 30 point traits in marksmanship are already loaded with some of the most important DPS traits a bow ranger has. Eagle Eye needs to be merged with Piercing Arrows or Quick Draw (or both) in addition working with a shortbow. All three combined would probably be too powerful, but all three on their own is underwhelming and bloats rangers with weak trait choices.

Shiren.9532:

I think eagle eye is a horrible trait. The increased range on the shortbow definitely matters but on the longbow it hard marginal use in WvW and doesn’t really matter in PvE unless you want to lame world bosses by standing outside their maximum range. Currently Eagle Eye competes with both piercing arrows (fundamental for effective bow use in PvE) and Spotter (the most useful tool a ranger has to contribute to a group). It has even more competition if you use signets, one of the few viable power builds.

Allowing eagle eye to boost the shortbow range to it’s former not OP state would solve nothing because the 20 and 30 point traits in marksmanship are already loaded with some of the most important DPS traits a bow ranger has. Eagle Eye needs to be merged with Piercing Arrows or Quick Draw (or both) in addition working with a shortbow. All three combined would probably be too powerful, but all three on their own is underwhelming and bloats rangers with weak trait choices.

Yes, I totally agree with this, and I think given the huge nerfs to ranger it would make a lot of sense. It would make running a power/bow build much more attractive if those traits were merged.

Yasha.5963:

Shiren.9532:

I think eagle eye is a horrible trait. The increased range on the shortbow definitely matters but on the longbow it hard marginal use in WvW and doesn’t really matter in PvE unless you want to lame world bosses by standing outside their maximum range. Currently Eagle Eye competes with both piercing arrows (fundamental for effective bow use in PvE) and Spotter (the most useful tool a ranger has to contribute to a group). It has even more competition if you use signets, one of the few viable power builds.

Allowing eagle eye to boost the shortbow range to it’s former not OP state would solve nothing because the 20 and 30 point traits in marksmanship are already loaded with some of the most important DPS traits a bow ranger has. Eagle Eye needs to be merged with Piercing Arrows or Quick Draw (or both) in addition working with a shortbow. All three combined would probably be too powerful, but all three on their own is underwhelming and bloats rangers with weak trait choices.

Yes, I totally agree with this, and I think given the huge nerfs to ranger it would make a lot of sense. It would make running a power/bow build much more attractive if those traits were merged.

You get more damage with extra range and stacking damage can work well. The range does allow better elevated perches in wvw esp in the new design. I agree we have too many key traits in our power line and not enough in others.

skeppi.4856:

Funny I’d rather it have faster rate of fire than extended range

It used to have faster fire rate and a much greater range.

I think being able to throw axe further than sb can shoot is particularly interesting, looking forward for an incoming axe range nerf.