Seeds of Life Issue

Seeds of Life Issue

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just wanted to let you know that seeds are USELESS (among a lot of other things in this movement heavy game) when you or your team moves. Combat was designed with movement in mind and MOST combat situations force us to move, but some skills and things do NOT match this combat design.

I do not understand most of the design decisions with professions and combat in this game.

Either make this a stand still and static combat game, or design skills with movement in mind.

If you want some tips about designing professions and skills and skill types and roles and support roles and combat systems and combat UI… for a movement based combat game, please look into City of Heroes for inspiration.

Seeds are USELESS on the move, and there was zero need to make any changes anyway. Particularly when players are swimming in conditions during most combat encounters.

Please start taking everything related to professions and combat seriously. Please go back to the drawing board and make professions and combat the number 1 priority. Please.

Thank you for reading.

Edit- City of Heroes WAS groundbreaking with combat and classes and skills… NOT GW2. I’m sorry, but nothing about professions and combat in this game is ground breaking at all. The highlight to this game is freedom of movement, good targeting and most skills are responsive, but that is about it. There is almost zero inspiration to professions and combat here, and it honestly feels like these areas were the least developed part of the game prior to launch. What’s worse is that we are almost 4 years in and hardly anything meaningful has been done to really improve classes and combat.

Please start caring about the most important aspects of this game.

Edit- I am not a gaming noob. I spent years pvping in City of Heroes and playing tons of different classes and roles… These are not my video, but this is the type of mmo combat I was use to. City gave players the right designs and tools to give their players a SMOOTH and fast paced combat experience.. I could support my teams almost flawlessly if I played support… I wasn’t fiddling with the combat UI and wonky skills, I was focused on playing the game and supporting my team properly unlike here. This game also ran parallel to Guild Wars when it didn’t even have jumping…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TDk58EKSWcI

Why are we give such poor support skills in this game? Why are we having to ask players to stand still to get support? Why is this profession given gated and aiming support skills? Why do Ranger/Druid players having to explain to team mates why we can’t heal them at times on our HEALER? Why are Ventari healers given clunky support mechanics as well?

Sorry, yeah, I’m way beyond frustrated with things here. This game could be one of the top fantasy mmo games for classes and combat, but they just don’t put in the effort for these areas. Such wasted potential.

Please back up and reevaluate things. Please stop trying to be “anet different”. Give us good classes with good skills and good roles and good combat and make each profession feel similar to pick up and play and smooth. Profession skill should come from mastering our skills, NOT learning to master and work around multiple different funky and clunky profession designs and mechanics.

Inspirational videos for support…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7lDETnhPs1o

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4FATYyGkq8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwG8rHrJSD4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6n7ythq_0_g

2v2 pvp with 3 support oriented classes and 1 pure ranged damage class.

PoV team… Support primary/ranged offense secondary character and Ranged offense primary/support secondary character

Versus

Pure ranged damage character and support primary/ranged offense secondary

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uua7d_JFaP0

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: StickerHappy.8052

StickerHappy.8052

Finally someone who understands. even before the nerf the condition clear start waaayy after the glyph procs.

Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

I believe we all understood it.
We just learned to live with it and we never said a word about it. Because why would we. They don’t care anyway.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: SgtWantCuddles.5284

SgtWantCuddles.5284

Anet: We want to get away from the “stack-N-whack” mentality. We’re even gonna punish stacking with agony at the highest level of fractals. BTW, here’s your healing elite spec – half of their abilities are centered on them with no targeting and a relatively small radius for how much we want you to spread out. Your fast-pop condi clear? Also centered on you and even smaller radius. Enjoy!

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Posted by: Crapgame.6519

Crapgame.6519

Anet: We want to get away from the “stack-N-whack” mentality. We’re even gonna punish stacking with agony at the highest level of fractals. BTW, here’s your healing elite spec – half of their abilities are centered on them with no targeting and a relatively small radius for how much we want you to spread out. Your fast-pop condi clear? Also centered on you and even smaller radius. Enjoy!

You know, I’m glad you mentioned this although not so much in this post. I don’t raid so take this from a WvW point of view.

I always thought to myself why on earth the area of effect / target is so small. PvP and in Raids (previous games I’ve played with large scale raids) no one is standing still. There is always some form of movement or people in different places at different stages of the fight. Rarely are people stacking and racking the whole time. And this isn’t just the Druid.

Guardians and symbols always bothered me for this very reason. It honestly makes no sense why they are symbols rather than an aura or something that pulses or radiates out. Or, in the case of the druid and you target, make the darn things larger or follow the target while they move.

This is when a game designed without a healing meta or tanking has difficulties adding it in later. Just my opinion anyway.

Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

This is why seeds with 2 condi clear was balanced and 1 clear is terrible. Since laying down a Seed of Life procs a ring that then takes time to trigger you have to weigh the cost of staying inside this ring to get the clear vs taking the damage from staying confined within your own ring. Meanwhile you enemy had to weigh the damage they could put on you while you are in the ring despite you getting the clear or try to forcibly remove you from the ring with some sort of CC before the clear triggers. With Seeds of Life only cleansing 1 condition just throwing out damage at the druid is now the best option, and for the druid you are faced with a really awful choice, keep dying to conditions that you probably won’t even cleanse anymore or try to cleanse them anyway and get condi’d WAY faster than you can cleanse, not even netting a benefit.

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Posted by: OGDeadHead.8326

OGDeadHead.8326

Profession skill should come from mastering our skills, NOT learning to master and work around multiple different funky and clunky profession designs and mechanics.

QFT, +1

Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user

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Posted by: Trepidation Lost.3469

Trepidation Lost.3469

city of heroes was awesome, if they didnt delete it id have never played gw lol

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

Complaining about things that are badly designed only works when someone who matters is listening.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: GussJr.1643

GussJr.1643

I guess I just don’t agree with you on the seeds of life thing, I actually love the way they work…if you don’t like the mechanic, then there are other options you can choose.

Your rant makes it seem like you expect your team to pause and wait for you to pop off a seed of life…well, that sounds more of a LTP issue…

There are options for condi-clear through your pet…not just seeds

If your team is moving, you have a very handy skill 3 on staff…get yourself in the middle of your team and use the seeds and then swap back to another weapon. The seeds literally take half a second, or less, to activate.

Druid is not just about healing…its about placement, movement, timing, and prediction.

You may not agree with the skill sets they have given you with Druid, and that’s ok, you can choose to adapt to them or switch them out for something else. Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t make them bad.

…anyway…just my 2c’s

~COLLAMETTA~DELVANAI~

(edited by GussJr.1643)

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Posted by: Crapgame.6519

Crapgame.6519

I guess I just don’t agree with you on the seeds of life thing, I actually love the way they work…if you don’t like the mechanic, then there are other options you can choose.

Your rant makes it seem like you expect your team to pause and wait for you to pop off a seed of life…well, that sounds more of a LTP issue…

There are options for condi-clear through your pet…not just seeds

If your team is moving, you have a very handy skill 3 on staff…get yourself in the middle of your team and use the seeds and then swap back to another weapon. The seeds literally take half a second, or less, to activate.

Druid is not just about healing…its about placement, movement, timing, and prediction.

You may not agree with the skill sets they have given you with Druid, and that’s ok, you can choose to adapt to them or switch them out for something else. Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t make them bad.

…anyway…just my 2c’s

True, somewhat. Team moves, area of effect or seed becomes stationary once set.

Are we Pvping, raiding or playing a game of Red Light / Green Light? /boggle

Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)

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Posted by: GussJr.1643

GussJr.1643

playing a game of Red Light / Green Light?

I love that game!

Anyway…I guess all I was saying is that I enjoy them, but they are not the only option.

also…as a side note OP…if you truly don’t enjoy the way the skills work, then give the devs a well thought out proposal for changing them that would help the class overall.

You can’t just say X Skill stinks because I say so…Say, X skill stinks and this is how I think they should be reworked…you can’t just tell them to go back to the drawing board on the whole game because it’s not like another game you played before…

~COLLAMETTA~DELVANAI~

(edited by GussJr.1643)

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Posted by: Crapgame.6519

Crapgame.6519

Guss – I think people have provided feedback, elsewhere, and several times but it would seem to be falling on deaf ears. I could be wrong, probably am.

It probably wouldn’t be that big of a deal if they balanced other classes in a similar pattern and frequency. I only play two with Guardian being the other. I’ve personally not see any other class fixed or adjusted as quick as the poor Ranger/Druid. But I could be biased.

Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I guess I just don’t agree with you on the seeds of life thing, I actually love the way they work…if you don’t like the mechanic, then there are other options you can choose.

Seed were designed as a support skill. This is a movement oriented game by design. Maybe you like just being effective in stationary combat, but I don’t

Your rant makes it seem like you expect your team to pause and wait for you to pop off a seed of life…well, that sounds more of a LTP issue…

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about with this sentence… I expect my abilities to function better on the move. Perhaps rereading would serve this conversation better

There are options for condi-clear through your pet…not just seeds

Umm this was supposed to be a team support elite and I expect my abilities to function properly in this movement and condition heavy game

If your team is moving, you have a very handy skill 3 on staff…get yourself in the middle of your team and use the seeds and then swap back to another weapon. The seeds literally take half a second, or less, to activate.

If your team is moving seeds are useless regardless of staff 3…

Druid is not just about healing…its about placement, movement, timing, and prediction.

I’m fully aware of how to play

You may not agree with the skill sets they have given you with Druid, and that’s ok, you can choose to adapt to them or switch them out for something else. Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t make them bad.

They are bad for a movement oriented game

…anyway…just my 2c’s

Bolded

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Hammerguard.9834

Hammerguard.9834

This is why seeds with 2 condi clear was balanced and 1 clear is terrible. Since laying down a Seed of Life procs a ring that then takes time to trigger you have to weigh the cost of staying inside this ring to get the clear vs taking the damage from staying confined within your own ring. Meanwhile you enemy had to weigh the damage they could put on you while you are in the ring despite you getting the clear or try to forcibly remove you from the ring with some sort of CC before the clear triggers. With Seeds of Life only cleansing 1 condition just throwing out damage at the druid is now the best option, and for the druid you are faced with a really awful choice, keep dying to conditions that you probably won’t even cleanse anymore or try to cleanse them anyway and get condi’d WAY faster than you can cleanse, not even netting a benefit.

This is exactly how it worked. Making a choice of staying in the AoE for the cleanse and heal or leaving cause there was too much pressure. Now the option will always be to leave. The seeds are not worth the wait.

AND NO, ANET. I don’t want seeds to drop down to 1 second until activation. Swallow your pride and give us the old seeds back. When it was meaningful and had counterplay.

… I still want tengu.

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Posted by: ProtoMarcus.7649

ProtoMarcus.7649

I still don’t understand the nerf. It takes a long time to cleanse, the radius is super small and the light field doesn’t last long. With the nerf, here are some balance suggestions:

  • Make the cleansing and healing 50% faster
  • Enlarge the radius by 30%
  • Augment the healing coefficient by 15%
  • Make the light field last 30% longer

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Posted by: Kodama.6453

Kodama.6453

Why should seeds of life be useless in a movement heavy game? I don’t get that logic. It actually is a skill shot, you can predict where your ally will be when the blossom pops and just lay it that place. That’s nothing new.

Saying that an area of effect skill with delay is useless would mean the complete engineer bomb kit is useless since it has a delay too. That’s just not true. It is bad the condi cleanse got nerfed (especially since anet stated that they designed druid to make ranger less vulnerable to conditions), but connecting it is a ltp issue.

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Posted by: xikira.3264

xikira.3264

Anet please look at this page. All the nerfs you guys have done is slowly killing the druid class. Rangers have had the raw end of the deal for so long. Then we actually get a decent support class and its slowly being taken away from because pvpers keep complaining that we are ‘to strong’. At the very least keep the nerfs only in the pvp arena and not punish us in any other part of the game.

“My potions are too strong for you, traveler.”
Potion Sella

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Anet please look at this page. All the nerfs you guys have done is slowly killing the druid class. Rangers have had the raw end of the deal for so long. Then we actually get a decent support class and its slowly being taken away from because pvpers keep complaining that we are ‘to strong’. At the very least keep the nerfs only in the pvp arena and not punish us in any other part of the game.

Stop.

Just.. Don’t. This skill was never even close to being too strong in PvP. This isn’t a Pve/PvP issue, it’s Anet getting the idea that Rangers got too much condi clear followed by nerfing the wrong skill like they don’t even know their own game. Like they do most of the time.

The only proper “balance suggestion” to Seeds of Life is for Anet to swallow their pride to revert the change. No kitten radius increase, faster cleansing and whatnot. The skill was perfectly fine as it was.

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: StickerHappy.8052

StickerHappy.8052

Anet please look at this page. All the nerfs you guys have done is slowly killing the druid class. Rangers have had the raw end of the deal for so long. Then we actually get a decent support class and its slowly being taken away from because pvpers keep complaining that we are ‘to strong’. At the very least keep the nerfs only in the pvp arena and not punish us in any other part of the game.

Stop.

Just.. Don’t. This skill was never even close to being too strong in PvP. This isn’t a Pve/PvP issue, it’s Anet getting the idea that Rangers got too much condi clear followed by nerfing the wrong skill like they don’t even know their own game. Like they do most of the time.

The only proper “balance suggestion” to Seeds of Life is for Anet to swallow their pride to revert the change. No kitten radius increase, faster cleansing and whatnot. The skill was perfectly fine as it was.

the skill was bad as it was, thats the proper term for it. Anyone using this solely as a condition removal is..

Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus

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Posted by: Matt Stacey.7415

Matt Stacey.7415

Honestly I think seeds were almost as useless as staff #2. I think of this nerf the same way I would if they somehow managed to take staff #2 (whatever the skill is isn’t even worth me looking up the correct name), the worst skill in the entire game, and nerfing the kitten out of the miniscule value it had. In other words, yes patch after patch ranger gets nerfs, but I’m more focused on the important stuff like bristleback and smokescale nerfs. Rangers finally had pets that did damage and of course everyone cried because for the first time since like 2013 ranger had burst and DPS. “Waaah why does ranger have DPS again it’s not fair” “ANet: lol whoops… patch

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Posted by: InsaneQR.7412

InsaneQR.7412

I guess I just don’t agree with you on the seeds of life thing, I actually love the way they work…if you don’t like the mechanic, then there are other options you can choose.

Seed were designed as a support skill. This is a movement oriented game by design. Maybe you like just being effective in stationary combat, but I don’t

Your rant makes it seem like you expect your team to pause and wait for you to pop off a seed of life…well, that sounds more of a LTP issue…

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about with this sentence… I expect my abilities to function better on the move. Perhaps rereading would serve this conversation better

There are options for condi-clear through your pet…not just seeds

Umm this was supposed to be a team support elite and I expect my abilities to function properly in this movement and condition heavy game

If your team is moving, you have a very handy skill 3 on staff…get yourself in the middle of your team and use the seeds and then swap back to another weapon. The seeds literally take half a second, or less, to activate.

If your team is moving seeds are useless regardless of staff 3…

Druid is not just about healing…its about placement, movement, timing, and prediction.

I’m fully aware of how to play

You may not agree with the skill sets they have given you with Druid, and that’s ok, you can choose to adapt to them or switch them out for something else. Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t make them bad.

They are bad for a movement oriented game

…anyway…just my 2c’s

Bolded

Just little comment on your comment from someone who plays the game since launch.
In dungeons, raids or on openworld bosses it is useful indeed to have an AoE condi cleanse who is not moving or attachet to an ally or whatever, because everyone stays on the boss. One single placed AoE skill has better utility in boss battle fuster clucks. If the skill would move the chance is there either that a person misses the clear or you miss with aim. With an AoE stationary it isnt very useful in pvp but druid is mainly design for pve content were a healer is needed. And despite you can easy miss with the seeds you can place another one 2s later. For condi clear drop the seeds on the boss and 90% of your mates should be covered.

The only proposal i have for this skill is, make the AoE bigger and the field last longer.
Thank you for your attention.

Pale Raiders united.
9 Sylvari, 9 unique Builds.

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Posted by: InsaneQR.7412

InsaneQR.7412

This is why seeds with 2 condi clear was balanced and 1 clear is terrible. Since laying down a Seed of Life procs a ring that then takes time to trigger you have to weigh the cost of staying inside this ring to get the clear vs taking the damage from staying confined within your own ring. Meanwhile you enemy had to weigh the damage they could put on you while you are in the ring despite you getting the clear or try to forcibly remove you from the ring with some sort of CC before the clear triggers. With Seeds of Life only cleansing 1 condition just throwing out damage at the druid is now the best option, and for the druid you are faced with a really awful choice, keep dying to conditions that you probably won’t even cleanse anymore or try to cleanse them anyway and get condi’d WAY faster than you can cleanse, not even netting a benefit.

This is exactly how it worked. Making a choice of staying in the AoE for the cleanse and heal or leaving cause there was too much pressure. Now the option will always be to leave. The seeds are not worth the wait.

AND NO, ANET. I don’t want seeds to drop down to 1 second until activation. Swallow your pride and give us the old seeds back. When it was meaningful and had counterplay.

Actually i experience with verdant etching some weird propperties, on activation it instantly kills a condi but with the CAF just after it pops.

They should definetly put back the second condi clear or either clear one condi and a small heal on activation and clearing two condis when the seeds pops.
I still cannot understand why they changed that.

Pale Raiders united.
9 Sylvari, 9 unique Builds.

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

the skill was bad as it was, thats the proper term for it. Anyone using this solely as a condition removal is..

It was just fine as it was. If anything they could have had it blossom faster due to the nature of the game being about movement. But the effects of the skill were just fine, and so was the glyph trait. Until they decided to hit one of its functions with the nerf bat, effectively making it harder to justify staying inside the blossom.

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Posted by: Lalainnia.3598

Lalainnia.3598

I agree with the seed being a bit too slow to fully blossom but that’s it the nerf that brought it from 2 condi cleanses down to 1 is fine and not game breaking the seed heals lets off a small heal/blind LIGHT FIELD and lowers glyph cd by 20%. Honestly tho do rangers/druids really lack condi cleanse power period? Rangers/druids as a whole just might be the best possible class when it comes to clearing condis on a consistent basis sure you may have to invest in it by taking X utility or Y trait-line but when it’s combined it’s something beautiful.

For the people that might say I can’t take all the necessary trait-lines or utility in my so and so build for condi clear that’s what trade offs are called.

Absolutely agree with the seed triggering faster though.