Guild Wars 2

Anyone else feel like ranger got shafted with the new Shared Anguish? Everyone else got something useful such as fear or reflect, and many are on a 30s cooldown. Ranger got a 60s cooldown that makes our pet even more useless than it already is. It would be way more useful if they merged this with hide in plain sight and put it on 30s cd like most other traits below.

Mesmers get to reflect the disable back to the source. (Master)
Necros get to fear enemies when disabled. (Master)
Engi drops a smoke bomb when disabled and/or gain protection (Adept)
Eles get shocking aura (Master)
Thief refills endurance and breaks stun (Master)
Guardian gets aegis and retal (Adept)

Welcome to ranger.

In all seriousness the current traits are in such a mess that after removing/merging most of the pet’s don’t have gear/secondary stats one there isn’t even enough traits left to fill the list let alone be good for the tier they are placed in.

It is pretty obvious that the Ranger traits are a work in progress. I’m hoping SA gets merged with HiPS, it would make sense.

But do other traits also save you from stun? You know, like necro fear enemy, but isn’t he stunned during it anyway?

Terkov.4138:

But do other traits also save you from stun? You know, like necro fear enemy, but isn’t he stunned during it anyway?

Thief’s “Hard to Catch”:

30 ICD. Auto breakstun, refill endurance, ADAPT TRAIT. NO DRAWBACK (like pet getting CCed instead?)
Not to mention thief has more stun breaker than ranger. Ranger does have stability but none of them are instant and need to precast it. It greatly hinders it’s effectiveness because you have to predict a CC and waste duration by pre-casting it.

Balance?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is pretty obvious that the Ranger traits are a work in progress. I’m hoping SA gets merged with HiPS, it would make sense.

A trait with two internal cooldowns triggering from the same event is ugly.
If you want to merge it, at least create the following grandmaster:

Animal Cruelty / Pet Abuse
Pets periodically take conditions from you. Incoming stuns are redirected to your pet.
interval: 10
conditions removed: 3
redirect cooldown: 60 seconds

This version would fix most of the current Wildnerness Survival problems:

Minor traits:

Add Hide in Plain Sight in one of the minor traits. Doesn’t matter which.

Major traits:

Adapt:

1. Shared Anguish: (merged with soften the fall)
You take 50% less damage from falling.
When you get CCed, your pet take the CC instead. (CD30)
(Do note thief version: “hard to catch” auto breakstun at 30 CD, does not sacrifices their class mechanic (pet), and also refill endurance. It is reasonable for ranger to get the similar thing, instead of a vastly inferior version of “hard to catch”)

2. Ambidexterity: Gain 150 condition damage while wielding a torch or dagger. Torch and Dagger skills recharge 20% faster. Torch/dagger radius/range increased by 25%.

3. Expertise Training Pets deal 350 extra condition damage and have their condition durations increased by 20%. You gain 150 condition damage and 10% increased in condition duration. (Currently it’s just too weak that only pet gets the effect)

Master:

1. Oakheart Salve:
Gain regeneration when you suffer from bleeding, poison, burning, torment, or confusion. While you have regeneration you take 5% reduced damage.

2. Peak Strength:
You and your pet deal 10% more damage while your health is above the threshold (90%).

3. Poison Master:
After swapping pets, your pet’s first attack will inflict poison. Your poison damage is increased by 50%. Your poison duration increased by 33%.
(Thief’s version has 50% increased in poison damage AND 33% increase in poison duration. Also I do not think this trait justifies the grandmaster slot because almost everyone will pick the other 2 if they’re going to pick this line)

Grandmaster:

1. Empathic Bond:

Pets periodically take 3 condition from you (10s). Pet loses 2 condition every 10 seconds. (Again, sacrificing our class mechanic for cleanse is not reasonable)

2. Wilderness Knowledge
Use Sharpening Stone when you strike a foe below the health threshold (75%). Survival skills have 20% reduced recharge and remove 2 conditions. Grant fury when using a survival skill.

3. Natural Purification:
The condition applied to you have their duration reduced by 50% when you’re not moving. (It adds abit of risk factor, yet not being too OP because not moving in PVP is a great risk as well. Great risk comes with great reward.)

Toxsa.2701:

Adapt:

1. Shared Anguish: (merged with soften the fall)
You take 50% less damage from falling.
When you get CCed, your pet take the CC instead. (CD30)

You just gave me a brilliant idea.
As the line already features animal cruelty in every single slot besides the adept slot, what about:
-leave bond and shared anguish where they are
-add the following trait:

Soften the fall
-Falling damage is redirected to the pet.

I mean, the whole line already shows, how abusive the ranger is and how much they hate their pet, so why not use the pet as a cushion to soften the fall?

naphack.9346:

Toxsa.2701:

Adapt:

1. Shared Anguish: (merged with soften the fall)
You take 50% less damage from falling.
When you get CCed, your pet take the CC instead. (CD30)

You just gave me a brilliant idea.
As the line already features animal cruelty in every single slot besides the adept slot, what about:
-leave bond and shared anguish where they are
-add the following trait:

Soften the fall
-Falling damage is redirected to the pet.

I mean, the whole line already shows, how abusive the ranger is and how much they hate their pet, so why not use the pet as a cushion to soften the fall?

Hey, I was eating cookies, yet you make me almost spit out my cookies :O

Seriously can’t stop laughing >D

Toxsa.2701:

naphack.9346:

Toxsa.2701:

Adapt:

1. Shared Anguish: (merged with soften the fall)
You take 50% less damage from falling.
When you get CCed, your pet take the CC instead. (CD30)

You just gave me a brilliant idea.
As the line already features animal cruelty in every single slot besides the adept slot, what about:
-leave bond and shared anguish where they are
-add the following trait:

Soften the fall
-Falling damage is redirected to the pet.

I mean, the whole line already shows, how abusive the ranger is and how much they hate their pet, so why not use the pet as a cushion to soften the fall?

Hey, I was eating cookies, yet you make me almost spit out my cookies :O

Seriously can’t stop laughing >D

Don’t handle dangerous objects while browsing the internet.
Nothing good will come of it.

At least it’s reduced from 90s.

Animal cruelty applies stacks on the Ranger. When stacks reach 5, animal runs away from owner, probably to some PETA group. Ranger gains 100 points in every stat. Stacks disappear on death.

Kolisch.4691:

Animal cruelty applies stacks on the Ranger. When stacks reach 5, animal runs away from owner, probably to some PETA group. Ranger gains 100 points in every stat. Stacks disappear on death.

Beware of trying to stack animal cruelty on a bear. The last thing going through your head might be a huge paw.

I actually think that taken the whole class into account …
… We are currently the only one that is basically immune to CC for 30 seconds whole via Elite Skill available to anyone that doesn’t need traits to be functional.

If you don’t want that elite, you should be vulnerable to CC (which is your least concern WITH the elite). That trait is much valuable than on other classes, since once your position is broken on Power Builds – you are dead on sight.

If they can’t pull you down (which is usually a CD over 25 seconds), than you achieved what you wanted.

It’s weaker than other classes’ mechanics, but I take it as a fact since we don’t really need it at all, and if we do, it can change a lot.
Especially with the new Longbow builds upcoming.

‘Hidden Anguish’
Incoming disabling conditions (stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch) are transferred to your pet instead.
Applies camouflage to the player.
Cooldown: 40s

Camouflage is really stealth, like the current iteration of Hide in Plain Sight, breakable when you attack and not when you move. It’s a merge a Shared Anguish and Hide in Plain Sight, with small modification too, it does NOT apply to pet, only to ranger, so the pet can still be a small indication of where the player is.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I actually think that taken the whole class into account …
… We are currently the only one that is basically immune to CC for 30 seconds whole via Elite Skill available to anyone that doesn’t need traits to be functional.

If you don’t want that elite, you should be vulnerable to CC (which is your least concern WITH the elite). That trait is much valuable than on other classes, since once your position is broken on Power Builds – you are dead on sight.

If they can’t pull you down (which is usually a CD over 25 seconds), than you achieved what you wanted.

It’s weaker than other classes’ mechanics, but I take it as a fact since we don’t really need it at all, and if we do, it can change a lot.
Especially with the new Longbow builds upcoming.

You mean RaO? The thing that is on a 120s cooldown? Why should we have to blow an elite to do what other classes can do with adept / master traits?

Though shared anguish is all the more reason that anet just ha—err loves rangers. I mean, if we didn’t have the pet there would be no anguish to share…right? So it makes perfect sense to punish us because we have a pet. You know, direct that CC to the part of me that does 40% of my damage. Yeah, that works great!

naphack.9346:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is pretty obvious that the Ranger traits are a work in progress. I’m hoping SA gets merged with HiPS, it would make sense.

A trait with two internal cooldowns triggering from the same event is ugly.
If you want to merge it, at least create the following grandmaster:

You would obviously merge the CDs too, to the higher, 60s.
So it would be – When you are CC’d, it is re-directed to your pet and you gain stealth for 3s. 60s CD.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

naphack.9346:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is pretty obvious that the Ranger traits are a work in progress. I’m hoping SA gets merged with HiPS, it would make sense.

A trait with two internal cooldowns triggering from the same event is ugly.
If you want to merge it, at least create the following grandmaster:

You would obviously merge the CDs too, to the higher, 60s.
So it would be – When you are CC’d, it is re-directed to your pet and you gain stealth for 3s. 60s CD.

Fitting to the animal abuse theme.
He kicks his pet into the mud, then vanishes, never to be seen again.

Alternatively, the good-willed pet jumps in front of him and takes the hit while he vanishes in stealth and runs away.

Considering the fact that rangers have so many skills and traits that puts the bad effect(s) on “the other part of us” (pet), at least the cooldown of abilities like SA really ought to be greatly reduced, since we still get punished, just not directly. Remember that the class is balanced around a living, working pet.

I’m amazed that they didn’t add something like this to Hide in Plain sight:

“Applies camouflage when you are disabled – your pet is stunned for 15 seconds"
or
““Applies camouflage when you are disabled – your pet starts to burn”

;)

Toxsa.2701:

Terkov.4138:

But do other traits also save you from stun? You know, like necro fear enemy, but isn’t he stunned during it anyway?

Thief’s “Hard to Catch”:

30 ICD. Auto breakstun, refill endurance, ADAPT TRAIT. NO DRAWBACK (like pet getting CCed instead?)
Not to mention thief has more stun breaker than ranger. Ranger does have stability but none of them are instant and need to precast it. It greatly hinders it’s effectiveness because you have to predict a CC and waste duration by pre-casting it.

Balance?

Try using it while contesting point or trying to stay stacked with group.

And I’d suggest to never directly compare similar abilities between classes. I already had looong discussion about it 2 years ago in this forum. Balance simply doesn’t work like that.

And still no answer to my question: do any of other classes traits actually save player from CC or only give some bonuses to survive it easier?

Toxsa.2701:

Terkov.4138:

But do other traits also save you from stun? You know, like necro fear enemy, but isn’t he stunned during it anyway?

Thief’s “Hard to Catch”:

30 ICD. Auto breakstun, refill endurance, ADAPT TRAIT. NO DRAWBACK (like pet getting CCed instead?)
Not to mention thief has more stun breaker than ranger. Ranger does have stability but none of them are instant and need to precast it. It greatly hinders it’s effectiveness because you have to predict a CC and waste duration by pre-casting it.

Balance?

Then why is Thief so reliant on melee damage? Not to mention he is thousand times squishier. And deals ZERO damage while stunned (ranger still deals 30%, remember?), and has to choose between evading and dealing damage (cannot do both at the same time, ranger can).

Like the guy above me stated, treating abilities throughout different classes is pointless. Every class has different value on the same mechanics. While one sees it as a life-saver, the other can find it utterly useless.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Toxsa.2701:

Terkov.4138:

But do other traits also save you from stun? You know, like necro fear enemy, but isn’t he stunned during it anyway?

Thief’s “Hard to Catch”:

30 ICD. Auto breakstun, refill endurance, ADAPT TRAIT. NO DRAWBACK (like pet getting CCed instead?)
Not to mention thief has more stun breaker than ranger. Ranger does have stability but none of them are instant and need to precast it. It greatly hinders it’s effectiveness because you have to predict a CC and waste duration by pre-casting it.

Balance?

Then why is Thief so reliant on melee damage? Not to mention he is thousand times squishier. And deals ZERO damage while stunned (ranger still deals 30%, remember?), and has to choose between evading and dealing damage (cannot do both at the same time, ranger can).

Like the guy above me stated, treating abilities throughout different classes is pointless. Every class has different value on the same mechanics. While one sees it as a life-saver, the other can find it utterly useless.

When Shared Anguish is activated, your pet is not doing damage either lol… Also pet’s damage is like 15%~20% rather than 30% after so many nerfs. (Unless you choose a cat type and the target is not moving at all)

Not to mention Hard to Catch will still be vastly superior than Shared Anguish even when SA CD is 30, because it has ZERO additional effect, and it harms your class mechanic. Hard to catch does not has any drawback, and also refill endurance. The additional feature justify that SA rly need to be on much shorter CD

Not to mention this “melee feature” actually does thief more good than harm. They’re very agile and distance means almost nothing to them. It’ll make range class life that much harder, and it’ll benefit them more in conquest mode. You talk as if that if thief becomes a better range class, it’d be more useful in conquest lol…

Just counts the number of thieves in top 10 teams and the number of rangers in top 10 teams and you may see the logic.

As far as i remember, the other traits you mentioned like the mesmer one, cc the mesmer too and copies that cc back to the caster.

While shared anguish just says immune on the ranger when shared anguish procs. Meaning you dont get cced when you transfer it to your pet.

First … if your pet is that large of a percentage of your damage … you shouldn’t be taking shared anguish as you are running a tanky (see: Nomad) set of gear and spec’d into your Beast.

Second … being completely immune to CC in that it doesn’t even interrupt your current action is very powerful. Want your rapid fire not interrupted … here you go.

Sure, the Thief’s new traits stunbreaks … you’ll still have interrupted that Thief … they just won’t be locked out by that daze/stun.

As already stated several times in this thread and previous ones like it (way to not read … just spew the same garbage) … many other classes’ anti-CC traits still leave them CC’d. They just apply a CC to whomever CC’d them.

Stop asking to have anything other classes have. We have different classes … they are supposed to be different. You have been, again, given several reasons that validate the balance for this trait. If you take a build that doesn’t fully benefit from this trait … then why the heck are you taking the trait … it’s an option after all.

Try to think at least twice as much as you type … and that’s lowballing it considerably.

Sebrent.3625:

First … if your pet is that large of a percentage of your damage … you shouldn’t be taking shared anguish as you are running a tanky (see: Nomad) set of gear and spec’d into your Beast.

Second … being completely immune to CC in that it doesn’t even interrupt your current action is very powerful. Want your rapid fire not interrupted … here you go.

Sure, the Thief’s new traits stunbreaks … you’ll still have interrupted that Thief … they just won’t be locked out by that daze/stun.

As already stated several times in this thread and previous ones like it (way to not read … just spew the same garbage) … many other classes’ anti-CC traits still leave them CC’d. They just apply a CC to whomever CC’d them.

Stop asking to have anything other classes have. We have different classes … they are supposed to be different. You have been, again, given several reasons that validate the balance for this trait. If you take a build that doesn’t fully benefit from this trait … then why the heck are you taking the trait … it’s an option after all.

Try to think at least twice as much as you type … and that’s lowballing it considerably.

Different in a sense of equally powerful, not different in way that one getting inferior version and one getting superior version. Also thief has no channel skill (other than p/p unload), and zero cd on weapon skills too. They also have 20 methods to stomp people without trouble. (invi, teleport stomp), 1/4 cast time on heal (Withdraw), so I don’t see that just being interrupted and nothing else is a big deal to them.

Also thief is already overall a better class than ranger in PVP, WvW and dungeon, so why they get the superior version?

Also, you want more example?
Warrior’s Last Stance: 90 ICD. Grant STABILITY when CCed. All stances have 25% increased duration. All stances grant vigor.

Sure the ICD is long, but it proc more meaningfully, and has other much useful features beside preventing CC.

I really think people in ranger forum is too easily satisfied because many of them lack the knowledge of other classes… ALL my requests for ranger are all base on what other classes can do comparatively. I never ask for anything over the board, always limit the change to the degree that’s equally powerful to other classes’ traits because I always consider all classes before I suggest something.

Toxsa.2701:

Sebrent.3625:

First … if your pet is that large of a percentage of your damage … you shouldn’t be taking shared anguish as you are running a tanky (see: Nomad) set of gear and spec’d into your Beast.

Second … being completely immune to CC in that it doesn’t even interrupt your current action is very powerful. Want your rapid fire not interrupted … here you go.

Sure, the Thief’s new traits stunbreaks … you’ll still have interrupted that Thief … they just won’t be locked out by that daze/stun.

As already stated several times in this thread and previous ones like it (way to not read … just spew the same garbage) … many other classes’ anti-CC traits still leave them CC’d. They just apply a CC to whomever CC’d them.

Stop asking to have anything other classes have. We have different classes … they are supposed to be different. You have been, again, given several reasons that validate the balance for this trait. If you take a build that doesn’t fully benefit from this trait … then why the heck are you taking the trait … it’s an option after all.

Try to think at least twice as much as you type … and that’s lowballing it considerably.

Different in a sense of equally powerful, not different in way that one getting inferior version and one getting superior version. Also thief has no channel skill (other than p/p unload), and zero cd on weapon skills too. They also have 20 methods to stomp people without trouble. (invi, teleport stomp), 1/4 cast time on heal (Withdraw), so I don’t see that just being interrupted and nothing else is a big deal to them.

Also thief is already overall a better class than ranger in PVP, WvW and dungeon, so why they get the superior version?

Because thief, engies and warriors are anets love children?

Toxsa.2701:

When Shared Anguish is activated, your pet is not doing damage either lol… Also pet’s damage is like 15%~20% rather than 30% after so many nerfs. (Unless you choose a cat type and the target is not moving at all)

Not to mention Hard to Catch will still be vastly superior than Shared Anguish even when SA CD is 30, because it has ZERO additional effect, and it harms your class mechanic. Hard to catch does not has any drawback, and also refill endurance. The additional feature justify that SA rly need to be on much shorter CD

Not to mention this “melee feature” actually does thief more good than harm. They’re very agile and distance means almost nothing to them. It’ll make range class life that much harder, and it’ll benefit them more in conquest mode. You talk as if that if thief becomes a better range class, it’d be more useful in conquest lol…

Just counts the number of thieves in top 10 teams and the number of rangers in top 10 teams and you may see the logic.

You are missing the whole point. If you stun a Thief – his damage output drops to zero. When you as a ranger get stunned – 70% of your damage was negated. With Shared Anguish, it’s basically a swap from 70% to 30%.
Isn’t that unfair?! We want every class to have the same mechanic, so let’s make it that if you get stunned, your pet cannot be commanded by you and thus is stunned as well every time you are.

And then we can make Shared Anguish 30sec CD that will negate you and you pet on a separate CD. <clap... clap... clap...>

I’m aware that rangers are not taken much into competitive. But that might or might not say anything objective. What if I tell you that there’s a miracle build that no one has thought of, and is suitable for both teamfights and point holding, hmm?
An overpowered one that no one uses because they didn’t think of one.

Could we buff it further so the people can realize it and then nerf it even more than it was before the people knew about it?
That logic is wrong if you ask me. The Rangers taken into competitive had builds that are much weaker than the builds currently available. Because Power Ranger is weaker in all terms available.

@Toxsa:

Just ignore that:

• Warrior’s trait is on a 90s cooldown … so used twice for every 3 times ours can trigger
• Warrior’s trait still has them initially interrupted by CC
• The ICD on Warrior’s trait clashes with their use of the actual Balanced Stance utility
• A CC’d Warrior is doing 0% damage as opposed to whatever % your pet is doing (spec-dependent).
• A CC’d Warrior can’t counter CC someone without breaking the CC first … a Ranger can … hello canine pets.
• A warrior can’t be continuously applying damage while LOSing a target … a Ranger can

How exactly do you quantify “proc more meaningfully” … I’m curious.

The squishiness of a Thief warrants them being able to handle 1 CC every 30s as that one CC can be the death of them. Play a Thief against anyone with a modicum of skill and you’ll know what I’m talking about. A CC’d Thief is a dead Thief.

I’m not sure how comparing Thief’s heal (Withdraw) to … what exactly … somehow got into the discussion on counter-CC traits. The heal isn’t a stunbreaker … and is only one of their heals … and, no, not all thieves use it … a large number of viable Thief builds use Hide In Shadows … some even use the Signet or Venom.

Could you elaborate on your various claims that other classes are just better than Ranger at everything? Or is that some sort of dogma we’re not supposed to question?

<sarcasm>
Obviously, those who don’t agree with you just don’t know nearly as much about other classes as you
</sarcasm>
… says the person who just practically quoted the crap I have to deal with when reasoning with my 5-year-old son

… I’m just waiting for the next lines … “you just don’t understand!” … and “you’re just not listening!”

I’m getting too old for this kitten.

<edit>
To make another point … some of the Rangers we’ve seen playing in the tournaments have, after those tournaments, been seen asking questions in these forums about basic mechanics of Rangers … like beastmastery points. Things that have been clearly explained and discussed on these forums over the past several years. Heck, I even have a post from over a year ago showing the exact stats affected by beastmastery points, by how much, and what that translates to as far as Direct Damage, Crit Chance, Base Health, and Damage Mitigation.

I don’t see that with those tournament-goers playing the other classes. They know their classes forwards and backwards.
</edit>

Sebrent.3625:

@Toxsa:

Just ignore that:

• Warrior’s trait is on a 90s cooldown … so used twice for every 3 times ours can trigger
• Warrior’s trait still has them initially interrupted by CC
• The ICD on Warrior’s trait clashes with their use of the actual Balanced Stance utility
• A CC’d Warrior is doing 0% damage as opposed to whatever % your pet is doing (spec-dependent).
• A CC’d Warrior can’t counter CC someone without breaking the CC first … a Ranger can … hello canine pets.
• A warrior can’t be continuously applying damage while LOSing a target … a Ranger can

How exactly do you quantify “proc more meaningfully” … I’m curious.

The squishiness of a Thief warrants them being able to handle 1 CC every 30s as that one CC can be the death of them. Play a Thief against anyone with a modicum of skill and you’ll know what I’m talking about. A CC’d Thief is a dead Thief.

I’m not sure how comparing Thief’s heal (Withdraw) to … what exactly … somehow got into the discussion on counter-CC traits. The heal isn’t a stunbreaker … and is only one of their heals … and, no, not all thieves use it … a large number of viable Thief builds use Hide In Shadows … some even use the Signet or Venom.

Could you elaborate on your various claims that other classes are just better than Ranger at everything? Or is that some sort of dogma we’re not supposed to question?

<sarcasm>
Obviously, those who don’t agree with you just don’t know nearly as much about other classes as you
</sarcasm>
… says the person who just practically quoted the crap I have to deal with when reasoning with my 5-year-old son

… I’m just waiting for the next lines … “you just don’t understand!” … and “you’re just not listening!”

I’m getting too old for this kitten.

---

<edit>
To make another point … some of the Rangers we’ve seen playing in the tournaments have, after those tournaments, been seen asking questions in these forums about basic mechanics of Rangers … like beastmastery points. Things that have been clearly explained and discussed on these forums over the past several years. Heck, I even have a post from over a year ago showing the exact stats affected by beastmastery points, by how much, and what that translates to as far as Direct Damage, Crit Chance, Base Health, and Damage Mitigation.

I don’t see that with those tournament-goers playing the other classes. They know their classes forwards and backwards.
</edit>

It is quite immature of you to bring out the sarcasm part because I’m arguing with you with logical reasoning, then you bring out those weird examples of indirectly referring other people as immature. It seems that you’re the one who doesn’t want to make an argument and want people to shut up.

Also Warrior proc stability without being interrupted at the first place because stability comes before they get interrupted. Also stability is more useful than that 1 random proc of shared anguish that doesn’t help you much most of the time. If you take those traits before you should be aware of that already. (Shared Anguish is so bad that it procs even when you have stability, not only waste the proc, but also makes your pet suffer for no reason) It seems like you never played as a Warrior before.

Also stance is a major feature of Warrior, and there’re builds that utilize them competitively. The new last stance has its uses even during the none proc period. As for Shared Anguish, it’s completely USELESS when the proc activated. Other classes have their other traits merged with the on CC trait because they were too weak. Only ranger’s Shared Anguish got nothing other than a minor CD reduction. They even nerfed it more by move it to Master trait, despite there’re already so many traits competing that spot, while the adapt traits are too situational.

Oh, I can give you one more example if you don’t mind. Engineer has auto protection when they get CCed on a 5 CD base, and protection lasts for 3.5 seconds, which is infinitely better than Shared Anguish. Not to mention engineer is a much stronger class than ranger in PVP scene, and potentially WvW roaming.

For ranger to compete the traits with other classes, SA really need to be shortened to 30 CD.

Last note: If Anet knows their balance so well, they wouldn’t have make it so imbalanced for such long years for ranger and necromancer. They wouldn’t have just killed a build with certain updates. (Like spirit build, and now turret) They’re humans with limited knowledge just like everyone else. That’s why we give feedback.

Ranger already has Shared Anguish, and the patch is buffing it, and the only option that is actually stronger than it is the thief Hard to Catch buff.

Unless the functionality is changed, the ranger trait is one of 2 that actually absorbs the CC, in some manner of speaking, where as all of the the other traits gain effects when CC’d but they still have to take the CC.

So really, Shared Anguish is the second most powerful trait out of the CC traits behind Hard to Catch, and honestly, that’s only because thieves are getting some ludicrous buffs anyhow (not saying they are OP, just saying that through traits, every single build that makes thieves have to select particular weaponsets and play certain ways are all being conveniently compressed and selectable by all builds while not having to make any difficult tradeoffs).

@Toxsa:
Perhaps you missed the …

• Warrior’s trait is on a 90s cooldown … so used twice for every 3 times ours can trigger
• The ICD on Warrior’s trait clashes with their use of the actual Balanced Stance utility
• A CC’d Warrior is doing 0% damage as opposed to whatever % your pet is doing (spec-dependent).
• A CC’d Warrior can’t counter CC someone without breaking the CC first … a Ranger can … hello canine pets.
• A warrior can’t be continuously applying damage while LOSing a target … a Ranger can

… since you only mentioned the one oversight.

If you have an issue with someone calling out trying to “strengthen” your argument by saying “I think people that disagree just don’t know as much” … then don’t say it. Should’ve realized the age-group is resembled. I’ll call that out all day long alongside people not posting facts to support their statements … because it’s essentially the same thing.

Warriors utilizing stances goes far beyond just anti-CC traits. Given that being CC’d allows them to be kited more, Warriors are obviously going to gravitate towards stunbreaks. When one of those stances gives them condition immunity and another gives them stability so that they are now immune to movement impairment of any form (unless stability is stripped) .. no duh they will be taking that.

They are a very different class though. They are quite direct and need to be able to better combat CC because that inhibits their more direct playstyle more than it does other classes.

Engineer actually has multiple anti-CC traits currently. Less damage via protection when CC’d. Drop a smoke bomb when CC’d. Less damage passively when KD’d or stunned. Do you think Engineer’s play similarly to Rangers? I sure as heck don’t. It’s very different when I’m on my Engineer than when I’m on my Ranger. Same when I switch to any of my other 80s.

Additionally, protection is great when CC’d … except when you’re against a condition build. My condi Ranger loves seeing that when my dog KDs the Engineer … because it is almost a completely wasted trait for them against me.

See how there are pros and cons to things?

See how things aren’t slow black-and-white?

See how things are a bit more dynamic than the simple scenarios in your head?

As far as why it is “imbalanced for years for Rangers and Necromancers” … please see my earlier comment about how I see tournament-going Rangers still coming back to our forums asking questions about core mechanics of our class. Perhaps it’s more of an issue with the pool of people available or simply how much time those people have been willing to invest in the class for any number of reasons.

Now, I can’t speak for the Necromancer community, because I’m not nearly as active there as I am here so have not noticed the same from their tournament-goers … but …

Last I checked, Terrormancer is a build currently used in tourneys.
Last I checked, trap rangers were the downfall of the Tanky Guardian holding points.

These classes have taken part in the meta. These classes have even shifted the meta.

Lastly … I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but several things are in a rather sizeable state of flux. It’s going to be difficult to accurate gauge how good/bad things are within the context of classes once all the changes are official since (1) We don’t know how everything is going to settle (2) You are comparing the current incarnation of new traits to the current incarnation of old traits.

Sebrent.3625:

@Toxsa:
Perhaps you missed the …

• Warrior’s trait is on a 90s cooldown … so used twice for every 3 times ours can trigger
• The ICD on Warrior’s trait clashes with their use of the actual Balanced Stance utility
• A CC’d Warrior is doing 0% damage as opposed to whatever % your pet is doing (spec-dependent).
• A CC’d Warrior can’t counter CC someone without breaking the CC first … a Ranger can … hello canine pets.
• A warrior can’t be continuously applying damage while LOSing a target … a Ranger can

… since you only mentioned the one oversight.

If you have an issue with someone calling out trying to “strengthen” your argument by saying “I think people that disagree just don’t know as much” … then don’t say it. Should’ve realized the age-group is resembled. I’ll call that out all day long alongside people not posting facts to support their statements … because it’s essentially the same thing.

Warriors utilizing stances goes far beyond just anti-CC traits. Given that being CC’d allows them to be kited more, Warriors are obviously going to gravitate towards stunbreaks. When one of those stances gives them condition immunity and another gives them stability so that they are now immune to movement impairment of any form (unless stability is stripped) .. no duh they will be taking that.

They are a very different class though. They are quite direct and need to be able to better combat CC because that inhibits their more direct playstyle more than it does other classes.

Engineer actually has multiple anti-CC traits currently. Less damage via protection when CC’d. Drop a smoke bomb when CC’d. Less damage passively when KD’d or stunned. Do you think Engineer’s play similarly to Rangers? I sure as heck don’t. It’s very different when I’m on my Engineer than when I’m on my Ranger. Same when I switch to any of my other 80s.

Additionally, protection is great when CC’d … except when you’re against a condition build. My condi Ranger loves seeing that when my dog KDs the Engineer … because it is almost a completely wasted trait for them against me.

See how there are pros and cons to things?

See how things aren’t slow black-and-white?

See how things are a bit more dynamic than the simple scenarios in your head?

As far as why it is “imbalanced for years for Rangers and Necromancers” … please see my earlier comment about how I see tournament-going Rangers still coming back to our forums asking questions about core mechanics of our class. Perhaps it’s more of an issue with the pool of people available or simply how much time those people have been willing to invest in the class for any number of reasons.

Now, I can’t speak for the Necromancer community, because I’m not nearly as active there as I am here so have not noticed the same from their tournament-goers … but …

Last I checked, Terrormancer is a build currently used in tourneys.
Last I checked, trap rangers were the downfall of the Tanky Guardian holding points.

These classes have taken part in the meta. These classes have even shifted the meta.

Lastly … I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but several things are in a rather sizeable state of flux. It’s going to be difficult to accurate gauge how good/bad things are within the context of classes once all the changes are official since (1) We don’t know how everything is going to settle (2) You are comparing the current incarnation of new traits to the current incarnation of old traits.

And you also missed that Warrior has the easiest access to stability and stun break and they’re all instant, no activation time. Stability of Warrior skills always tie with a stun-break, so your argument of stability procs later than stun break for warrior is irrelevant. Warrior is also one of the classes that are least affected by CC because of all the passive healing. You really never play a Warrior before.. I even doubt that you main a ranger, to think Shared Anguish is actually a good trait.. (Especially after Anet moved it to Master trait and moved the 10% damage boost trait from minor trait to master major trait as well)

Also you overestimate a pet can do other than being an utility tool of CC or boons.

Did you still miss the long list of cons to balance out what the Warrior has? You didn’t address it.

You can doubt, assume, etc. all you want about what I do/don’t play, kiddo. Some of the more reasonable people on these boards have actually gamed with me and know what is what.

I explained to you already why the Warrior has those things. They are far from the only class that can have a utility bar full of stunbreakers. Please take a look at all the classes you claim to know so well.

If you’re unable to play “rope-a-dope” against a warrior because of their abundance of stunbreaks, I’m sorry; that’s on you.

Instant stunbreaks? I didn’t realize there were stunbreaks that had a cast time other than things like Lightning Reflex which break it immediately but have you evading for a brief moment. I hardly consider those types of stunbreaks as having “cast times”.

Honestly, I hardly ever take Shared Anguish because it competes with several other excellent traits in the current Trait system and I don’t feel like I need it. For example, I’d rather take Vigorous Renewal and dodge more … likely dodging those CCs. I find more dodges more useful since it can counter CC as well as damage. Shared Anguish is only a CC counter.

Unlike you, I don’t feel like anti-CC traits are such a dominating aspect of the game.

If you think Warrior can get a large amount of passive healing … perhaps you should look at what a properly spec’d Ranger can do. Check the history of these forums. I and several others have shared this information before. It’s just always left the front page after a week or so as it gets washed away with the same old griping, crying, and complaining from often the same people.

As far as your claim that I "overestimate a pet can do other than being an utility tool of CC or boons …

• I mentioned that a pet is a % of your damage … is that incorrect? No.
• I mentioned that a pet can CC … you even admit this … so that isn’t incorrect
• I mentioned that a ranger can continue to apply damage while LOS-ing (implying via the pet) … is the pet not doing damage? No, it is.

… so please, explain how I’m overestimating,

Also, if you’re having trouble delivering pet-to-face, there are plenty of discussions on these boards about what you can do to help your pet land more hits against a moving target … even videos illustrating this. A pet that is supported by its Ranger returns the favor by better supporting its Ranger. It’s this crazy synergy where if you properly use your class mechanic, it works well for you.

Complaining about Ranger pet when you use it like garbage is like complaining about

• Mesmer shatters when you shatter 0-1 illusions … or against someone up on a wall
• Warrior burst skills when you have 1 bar
• Necro Death Shroud when you use it with an almost empty Life Force Pool
• Elementalist when you don’t manage your attunement swapping
  etc. etc. etc.

naphack.9346:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is pretty obvious that the Ranger traits are a work in progress. I’m hoping SA gets merged with HiPS, it would make sense.

A trait with two internal cooldowns triggering from the same event is ugly.
If you want to merge it, at least create the following grandmaster:

Animal Cruelty / Pet Abuse
Pets periodically take conditions from you. Incoming stuns are redirected to your pet.
interval: 10
conditions removed: 3
redirect cooldown: 60 seconds

lol this is exactly what i’ve been suggesting!!

Sebrent.3625:

Complaining about Ranger pet when you use it like garbage is like complaining about

• Mesmer shatters when you shatter 0-1 illusions … or against someone up on a wall
• Warrior burst skills when you have 1 bar
• Necro Death Shroud when you use it with an almost empty Life Force Pool
• Elementalist when you don’t manage your attunement swapping
  etc. etc. etc.

You are aware that none of those are AI controlled, right? A Ranger’s ‘use’ of a pet is limited to sending / recalling, swapping, and the F2s skill. The pathing and damage potential is AI controlled.

Like, a Necro can activate death shroud exactly when they need it. Rangers can’t say recall a pet exactly when needed as the AI needs time to react and actually move.

Basically what I am getting at is Ranger’s using the class mechanic ‘like garbage’ is not always up to the Ranger.

This question is slightly off-topic, but it’s about pets and I didn’t feel that it warranted it’s own topic.
Back during the Nov ‘13 Fractured! release they added modifier, the Mistlock Instabilities, to Fractals 31+. The level 41 instability, “Playing Favorites,” makes untargeted enemies take only 1/2 damage. I think that was during one of my GW2 breaks, but was there any discussion how this could’ve been given to pets so they don’t explode as quickly during WvW or boss events? If I remember correctly, the CDI was also around that time too.

Lol the mesmer one is SOO much worse than shared anguish. SA is fine.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Sebrent.3625:

Complaining about Ranger pet when you use it like garbage is like complaining about

• Mesmer shatters when you shatter 0-1 illusions … or against someone up on a wall
• Warrior burst skills when you have 1 bar
• Necro Death Shroud when you use it with an almost empty Life Force Pool
• Elementalist when you don’t manage your attunement swapping
  etc. etc. etc.

You are aware that none of those are AI controlled, right? A Ranger’s ‘use’ of a pet is limited to sending / recalling, swapping, and the F2s skill. The pathing and damage potential is AI controlled.

Like, a Necro can activate death shroud exactly when they need it. Rangers can’t say recall a pet exactly when needed as the AI needs time to react and actually move.

Basically what I am getting at is Ranger’s using the class mechanic ‘like garbage’ is not always up to the Ranger.

Idk what the hell you’ve been playing but when i hit F3 or F2 they immediately attempt to run back or use their ability. The thing is most of the time the people complaining are at range, away from all the CC being thrown around in a fight that the pet is getting hit by. Not to mention there’s a good chance your pet is intercepting CCs meant for your allies seeing as how a large amount of CC skills are single target and projectiles.