Guild Wars 2

First of all I’d like to say i am a new ranger/Druid and only recently created a ranger after HoT launched, so far I’ve played about 100 hours on it so I’m not an expert on it. However I’ve been using this build I personally find to be quite effective in group plays and the rotations are smooth. I’ve seen many people talking and asking about Druids in general in LA so I just wanna share it here.

For traits I went with skirmishing. Wilderness survival, and Druid ofc.
Trappers expertise, spotter, QuickDraw
Expertise training, ambidexterity, poison master
Primal echoes, seed of life, grace of the land.

Utilities are:
Glyph of rejuvenation, glyph of empowerment, glyph of unity. Flame trap and frost spirit.

Weapons are:
Axe torch with smouldering and geomancy, staff with leeching and earth.

Gear I use is:
Apothecary (main healing power sub toughness and condi) mixed with rabid trinkets. Ofc you can use vipers or other condi stats depending on how much dmg vs healing you wanna do but this seems to work for me.

Explanation of build:
This build will provide 35% dps boost for your party with frost (10%) grace of the land (15%) and glyph of empowerment another (10%). It also deals consistent condition dmg being only a few seconds behind the so called ‘meta’ condi ranger wielding just an axe and torch.

Rotation:
Frost spirit, all 3 glyphs (giving your party 9% dps boost through GOL), set your flame trap and astral wisp. Once flame trap activates use ancestral grace in the fire field for a nice might blast. Now swap to axe torch and immediately use bonfire which will get a reduced cd because of QuickDraw and do the general rotation of your other skills to maximise condi dmg. Here comes the fun part, you might ask so where is this sustained dps that you are talking about since I don’t have another axe torch to swap to to proc crit draw. Ahh but many people don’t know that CA also procs crit draw. Now before the internal cd of crit draw procs which is about 9 secs swap to CA mode and spam 1 on your entire party further maintaining the 5 stacks of GOL for 15% dmg boost. The trick is to enter CA BEFORE the quick draw internal cd and exit it AFTER tha internal cooldown of QuickDraw. Once you exit CA your bonfire will be ready and charged with QuickDraw so use it, after that spam your other weapon skills that matter and swap to staff (note do not use bonfire again without swapping to staff first or it will than go onto a 19 Sec cooldown). Rinse and repeat.

This rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condi build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage as staff does not have any condi skills. However it is easily made up by the 15% dps party support only a Druid can do.

I am well aware than you can just get 2 axe torch sets and do MAX dps but this build is a good balance between support and dps and offers way more support to your party through heals than just going condi dps Druid.

Pets I usually use:
Tiger and jungle stalker for 100% fury and 5 might support. Ofc you can use other pets in diff scenarios.

Testing of dps with settlers amulet (closest to apothecary condi) I can maintain an average of 6k burns with bleeds mixed in.

That’s it for the build I use:D hope it helps whoever who is looking to play a healing Druid and not feel like a dead weight in terms of dps to your party^^ again I’m not a very good ranger so there might be possible improvements that I missed out. I’ve cleared fotm 100 using this build with relative ease due to the huge healing support towards the party:D

Conclusion TLDR:
35% dmg boost for your party (combined with precision boost from spotter), good rotation which is on average only 5 Sec slower in dps than the average full axe torch spam combo. Plus tons of heals with almost max healing power:D enjoy! Feel free to leave some feedback or criticism.

1st: You got the numbers wrong.
2nd: A link to the actual build is appreciated. No one wants to read through walls so he can imagine what you were trying to say
3rd: Damage is way lower than you claim it to be. Main source of damage of Condi Ranger is Bonfire on QuickDraw use, Sun Spirit and flame trap. You bring none.

If you play conditions, Sun Spirit is more important than Frost Spirit. Having Both is ideal.

Tragic Positive.9356:

1st: You got the numbers wrong.
2nd: A link to the actual build is appreciated. No one wants to read through walls so he can imagine what you were trying to say
3rd: Damage is way lower than you claim it to be. Main source of damage of Condi Ranger is Bonfire on QuickDraw use, Sun Spirit and flame trap. You bring none.

If you play conditions, Sun Spirit is more important than Frost Spirit. Having Both is ideal.

As I said I just started ranger so I created this build on my own hence there is no link whatsoever for that, instead why not just read what I have extensively typed out and explain? 1. What numbers have I got wrong if you be oh so not so vague? 2. There’s no link, it’s just a build I was using and decided to share. 3. The dmg is way lower? Erm why don’t you grab a settlers amulet from pvp and test it out for yourself on the indestructible golem and see for yourself? Pvp amulets are free in pvp it’ll only take you 5 mins. I don’t use bonfire sun spirit or flame trap?? If you actually read my post you would see that I do indeed use bonfire and a flame trap I even went on to explain how to use them to the maximum. Frost spirit is way more dps boost in a party than a sunspirit which barely support your party if they are not condition builds.

TLDR? Seems like you have trouble reading text a little longer than a children’s play book. Read and test it before commenting, don’t make yourself look like a fool with baseless snark comments. Thanks for reading.

Oh you are probably one of those people who use DnT ‘meta’ builds when they get uploaded. Hey where do those builds come from? Erm yes people created them. Just like this build I found it very effective in pve. If you’re looking for a ‘meta’ build than you’re looking at the wrong place. Go be a sheep and follow your all so awesome meta builds. Probably one of those players who can’t pve for nuts. Sunspirit is better than frost spirit in a party setting? Yeah right.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Tragic Positive knows what he is talking about.

@Zach

I did read through your post. Your statements are incorrect. You proved it with your reply. You literally have zero idea about the game, yet. That is something you can’t hide anymore. Targeting people to be “sheep” just because they have better knowledge will not help you promote the build.

I would gladly explain why are you wrong, which numbers are wrong and why is your build weaker than any of it’s fellows… But you were never interested in that. If you were, you’d ask for them instead of hating “meta” that existed for a reason.

What I have problems are not walls of text, because I did read through the one of yours. I have problems reading highly self-valued intel repelling reality or constructive criticism.

By this moment, it’s just obvious the build you provided has not a single fact or number to hold onto and can simply be deemed inefficient.

Zach.2618:

First of all I’d like to say i am a new ranger/Druid and only recently created a ranger after HoT launched, so far I’ve played about 100 hours on it so I’m not an expert on it. However I’ve been using this build I personally find to be quite effective in group plays and the rotations are smooth. I’ve seen many people talking and asking about Druids in general in LA so I just wanna share it here.

For traits I went with skirmishing. Wilderness survival, and Druid ofc.
Trappers expertise, spotter, QuickDraw
Expertise training, ambidexterity, poison master
Primal echoes, seed of life, grace of the land.

Utilities are:
Glyph of rejuvenation, glyph of empowerment, glyph of unity. Flame trap and frost spirit.

Weapons are:
Axe torch with smouldering and geomancy, staff with leeching and earth.

Gear I use is:
Apothecary (main healing power sub toughness and condi) mixed with rabid trinkets. Ofc you can use vipers or other condi stats depending on how much dmg vs healing you wanna do but this seems to work for me.

Explanation of build:
This build will provide 35% dps boost for your party with frost (10%) grace of the land (15%) and glyph of empowerment another (10%). It also deals consistent condition dmg being only a few seconds behind the so called ‘meta’ condi ranger wielding just an axe and torch.

Rotation:
Frost spirit, all 3 glyphs (giving your party 9% dps boost through GOL), set your flame trap and astral wisp. Once flame trap activates use ancestral grace in the fire field for a nice might blast. Now swap to axe torch and immediately use bonfire which will get a reduced cd because of QuickDraw and do the general rotation of your other skills to maximise condi dmg. Here comes the fun part, you might ask so where is this sustained dps that you are talking about since I don’t have another axe torch to swap to to proc crit draw. Ahh but many people don’t know that CA also procs crit draw. Now before the internal cd of crit draw procs which is about 9 secs swap to CA mode and spam 1 on your entire party further maintaining the 5 stacks of GOL for 15% dmg boost. The trick is to enter CA BEFORE the quick draw internal cd and exit it AFTER tha internal cooldown of QuickDraw. Once you exit CA your bonfire will be ready and charged with QuickDraw so use it, after that spam your other weapon skills that matter and swap to staff (note do not use bonfire again without swapping to staff first or it will than go onto a 19 Sec cooldown). Rinse and repeat.

This rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condi build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage as staff does not have any condi skills. However it is easily made up by the 15% dps party support only a Druid can do.

I am well aware than you can just get 2 axe torch sets and do MAX dps but this build is a good balance between support and dps and offers way more support to your party through heals than just going condi dps Druid.

Pets I usually use:
Tiger and jungle stalker for 100% fury and 5 might support. Ofc you can use other pets in diff scenarios.

Testing of dps with settlers amulet (closest to apothecary condi) I can maintain an average of 6k burns with bleeds mixed in.

That’s it for the build I use:D hope it helps whoever who is looking to play a healing Druid and not feel like a dead weight in terms of dps to your party^^ again I’m not a very good ranger so there might be possible improvements that I missed out. I’ve cleared fotm 100 using this build with relative ease due to the huge healing support towards the party:D

Conclusion TLDR:
35% dmg boost for your party (combined with precision boost from spotter), good rotation which is on average only 5 Sec slower in dps than the average full axe torch spam combo. Plus tons of heals with almost max healing power:D enjoy! Feel free to leave some feedback or criticism.

I think what the other guys are trying to say is that there are other builds that can pump out a bit more condi damage than what you are you putting out. In which you did mention that in your original post so I’m assuming they might have missed that part.

The one thing I like about your build is the ability to pump out a decent amount of condi damage while at the same time providing a 35% Physical damage boost to your party. Not very many ‘max condi’ builds can provide a consistent 35% physical damage boost. It will be interesting to try it out when I get home. Thanks for the post.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Zach.2618:

First of all I’d like to say i am a new ranger/Druid and only recently created a ranger after HoT launched, so far I’ve played about 100 hours on it so I’m not an expert on it. However I’ve been using this build I personally find to be quite effective in group plays and the rotations are smooth. I’ve seen many people talking and asking about Druids in general in LA so I just wanna share it here.

For traits I went with skirmishing. Wilderness survival, and Druid ofc.
Trappers expertise, spotter, QuickDraw
Expertise training, ambidexterity, poison master
Primal echoes, seed of life, grace of the land.

Utilities are:
Glyph of rejuvenation, glyph of empowerment, glyph of unity. Flame trap and frost spirit.

Weapons are:
Axe torch with smouldering and geomancy, staff with leeching and earth.

Gear I use is:
Apothecary (main healing power sub toughness and condi) mixed with rabid trinkets. Ofc you can use vipers or other condi stats depending on how much dmg vs healing you wanna do but this seems to work for me.

Explanation of build:
This build will provide 35% dps boost for your party with frost (10%) grace of the land (15%) and glyph of empowerment another (10%). It also deals consistent condition dmg being only a few seconds behind the so called ‘meta’ condi ranger wielding just an axe and torch.

Rotation:
Frost spirit, all 3 glyphs (giving your party 9% dps boost through GOL), set your flame trap and astral wisp. Once flame trap activates use ancestral grace in the fire field for a nice might blast. Now swap to axe torch and immediately use bonfire which will get a reduced cd because of QuickDraw and do the general rotation of your other skills to maximise condi dmg. Here comes the fun part, you might ask so where is this sustained dps that you are talking about since I don’t have another axe torch to swap to to proc crit draw. Ahh but many people don’t know that CA also procs crit draw. Now before the internal cd of crit draw procs which is about 9 secs swap to CA mode and spam 1 on your entire party further maintaining the 5 stacks of GOL for 15% dmg boost. The trick is to enter CA BEFORE the quick draw internal cd and exit it AFTER tha internal cooldown of QuickDraw. Once you exit CA your bonfire will be ready and charged with QuickDraw so use it, after that spam your other weapon skills that matter and swap to staff (note do not use bonfire again without swapping to staff first or it will than go onto a 19 Sec cooldown). Rinse and repeat.

This rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condi build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage as staff does not have any condi skills. However it is easily made up by the 15% dps party support only a Druid can do.

I am well aware than you can just get 2 axe torch sets and do MAX dps but this build is a good balance between support and dps and offers way more support to your party through heals than just going condi dps Druid.

Pets I usually use:
Tiger and jungle stalker for 100% fury and 5 might support. Ofc you can use other pets in diff scenarios.

Testing of dps with settlers amulet (closest to apothecary condi) I can maintain an average of 6k burns with bleeds mixed in.

That’s it for the build I use:D hope it helps whoever who is looking to play a healing Druid and not feel like a dead weight in terms of dps to your party^^ again I’m not a very good ranger so there might be possible improvements that I missed out. I’ve cleared fotm 100 using this build with relative ease due to the huge healing support towards the party:D

Conclusion TLDR:
35% dmg boost for your party (combined with precision boost from spotter), good rotation which is on average only 5 Sec slower in dps than the average full axe torch spam combo. Plus tons of heals with almost max healing power:D enjoy! Feel free to leave some feedback or criticism.

I think what the other guys are trying to say is that there are other builds that can pump out a bit more condi damage than what you are you putting out. In which you did mention that in your original post so I’m assuming they might have missed that part.

The one thing I like about your build is the ability to pump out a decent amount of condi damage while at the same time providing a 35% Physical damage boost to your party. Not very many ‘max condi’ builds can provide a consistent 35% physical damage boost. It will be interesting to try it out when I get home. Thanks for the post.

Finally someone who actually read my post and disclaimers. Not once did I mention this to be the max dps condi build for ranger:/ not sure where the other guys got that idea from haha. Hope you will like the build!:D I have cleared every fractal up to 100 with ease in a party with this build as the healing output is also pretty good:D dps is not too shabby either as I could solo about 25% or the reactor stage on 64 with relative ease after my party wiped^^ hope you enjoy it! If you want more dps you can switch out apothecary for vipers or other stats if you’d like:D

Believe it or not the group dps boost is so substantial if done right that people
Have actually exclaimed during a run that their numbers are higher than usualXD

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Zach

I did read through your post. Your statements are incorrect. You proved it with your reply. You literally have zero idea about the game, yet. That is something you can’t hide anymore. Targeting people to be “sheep” just because they have better knowledge will not help you promote the build.

I would gladly explain why are you wrong, which numbers are wrong and why is your build weaker than any of it’s fellows… But you were never interested in that. If you were, you’d ask for them instead of hating “meta” that existed for a reason.

What I have problems are not walls of text, because I did read through the one of yours. I have problems reading highly self-valued intel repelling reality or constructive criticism.

By this moment, it’s just obvious the build you provided has not a single fact or number to hold onto and can simply be deemed inefficient.

Do have some kind of secret agenda against me or something? Did I ever insult you in anyway before this post? Because seriously it seems like you might have a personal issue with me more than you have my build.
First of all I have in no where mentioned that my build is the highest condi dps for ranger, i even stated it in my original post. This build is mainly for the people who I have heard asking about balancing support with dps as a Druid when I was sitting around in LA, it is a build I mainly posted to help out other rangers who might be at a lost as to finding a good line between support and dps.
Secondly why do you keep saying I have totally no idea about the game? Is it because I admitted that I am a new ranger? Does that make you think you are infinitely better than me? I didn’t even brag about my experience in the game and am so humble to share a build I found useful to me as a new ranger.
If you must know how inexperienced I am at the game, I have done all of the dungeons countless times with various classes except ranger and necro. I main an engi if you must know. I’ve soloed Arah among other small dungeons, done my share of fotm, hit 100 with the achievements 3 days after HoT launched with a PUG group (yes you can pug you just need to know what to do), pvped a ton 4K matches 1k ranked matches with 600 wins, so yeah if you want proof just add me and hit me up in game I’d gladly prove it to you. I’m not saying I’m the most experienced player in the game but I am IMO not inexperienced.
Lastly I have nvr once in this post stated that I hated meta, in fact I often run meta in min max speed run groups back when dungeons were popular. I am also a guy of min maxing my stats so I am very appreciative of meta builds that avid testers have put out. This build that I have shared it a mix of support and dps which you probably won’t find being meta because it is not the MAX dps build meant for Organised groups. However you will find this build to be very good in pugs and Organised groups.

I’m sorry I had to end up sharing my experience a little (bragging if you must) but when being called inexperienced for no apparent reason besides what I can see as a personal vendetta against me, I feel pushed to defend myself. Now pls tell me how experienced are you?

Everyone just uninstall. Game’s long been dead.

Too early to tell if this will be useful for raids or not, which is the only place I’d want to use this. But a surprisingly coherent build, once I plowed through the text wall. You really should add a build link to your original post.

Zach.2618:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Zach

I did read through your post. Your statements are incorrect. You proved it with your reply. You literally have zero idea about the game, yet. That is something you can’t hide anymore. Targeting people to be “sheep” just because they have better knowledge will not help you promote the build.

I would gladly explain why are you wrong, which numbers are wrong and why is your build weaker than any of it’s fellows… But you were never interested in that. If you were, you’d ask for them instead of hating “meta” that existed for a reason.

What I have problems are not walls of text, because I did read through the one of yours. I have problems reading highly self-valued intel repelling reality or constructive criticism.

By this moment, it’s just obvious the build you provided has not a single fact or number to hold onto and can simply be deemed inefficient.

Do have some kind of secret agenda against me or something? Did I ever insult you in anyway before this post? Because seriously it seems like you might have a personal issue with me more than you have my build.
First of all I have in no where mentioned that my build is the highest condi dps for ranger, i even stated it in my original post. This build is mainly for the people who I have heard asking about balancing support with dps as a Druid when I was sitting around in LA, it is a build I mainly posted to help out other rangers who might be at a lost as to finding a good line between support and dps.
Secondly why do you keep saying I have totally no idea about the game? Is it because I admitted that I am a new ranger? Does that make you think you are infinitely better than me? I didn’t even brag about my experience in the game and am so humble to share a build I found useful to me as a new ranger.
If you must know how inexperienced I am at the game, I have done all of the dungeons countless times with various classes except ranger and necro. I main an engi if you must know. I’ve soloed Arah among other small dungeons, done my share of fotm, hit 100 with the achievements 3 days after HoT launched with a PUG group (yes you can pug you just need to know what to do), pvped a ton 4K matches 1k ranked matches with 600 wins, so yeah if you want proof just add me and hit me up in game I’d gladly prove it to you. I’m not saying I’m the most experienced player in the game but I am IMO not inexperienced.
Lastly I have nvr once in this post stated that I hated meta, in fact I often run meta in min max speed run groups back when dungeons were popular. I am also a guy of min maxing my stats so I am very appreciative of meta builds that avid testers have put out. This build that I have shared it a mix of support and dps which you probably won’t find being meta because it is not the MAX dps build meant for Organised groups. However you will find this build to be very good in pugs and Organised groups.

I’m sorry I had to end up sharing my experience a little (bragging if you must) but when being called inexperienced for no apparent reason besides what I can see as a personal vendetta against me, I feel pushed to defend myself. Now pls tell me how experienced are you?

He doesn’t have any kind of vendetta against you. He’s just pointing out—what is obvious to experienced Rangers and Druids—the flaws in your build. In attributing the weaknesses of the build (and your inexplicable lack of knowledge of build editors) to your inexperience, he is giving you the benefit of the doubt. Nothing malicious here. And quite frankly, you are not exactly being humble in your OP or any of the following posts—which is fine, but then you need to back your assertions with some sort of proof. Nobody is concerned with your personality, but they will address the flaws in the build that you posted.

The fact that you completed FotM 100 with this build is irrelevant, considering healing is not required for FotM 1-100—especially now that enemies hit like wet noodles. Optimizing DPS is the strongest group support that you can provide as a Ranger, considering Rangers are one of the few classes with very strong condition damage builds—placing right behind Viper Engineers, who have the highest in-game DPS and a much more complicated rotation.

On to your build. You overstate the potential of this build considerably, especially considering that it requires stacking for optimization of GotL. You suffer a huge DPS loss in several key ways that is NOT compensated for by your group support. Using Staff at all is a huge DPS loss, since it has no condition pressure even with the sigils you have applied. You use it to fill CAF, which you then camp—close to a 100% personal DPS loss for up to 9 seconds while you wait for Quickdraw’s ICD.

At the very least, you are losing 50% (more if you ever camp staff) of your personal DPS to maintain a potential +15% bonus on your party members—which requires stacking your party members in a small area. Your use of Apothecary armor further reduces your personal DPS. Stating that “this rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condition build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage” is demonstrably false and deserves ridicule.

Using Glyph of Empowerment, Grace of the Land, and Frost Spirit do not provide the same DPS increases on higher-level fractals as they do on lower-level fractals due to increased Toughness scaling on enemies. Condition damage is far superior to direct damage. You also do not use one of the best condition support utilities in the game: Sun Spirit. This alone makes your build weaker. Using the Jungle Stalker implies that your group has trouble stacking might, which is by itself up to a 25% DPS increase that doesn’t require a group member losing ~50% of their personal DPS. Stacking Vulnerability provides another DPS increase that is possible without personal sacrifice.

Tl;dr: Your claims regarding the build’s DPS are highly inflated, and the support the build provides is unnecessary in fractals. It may be useful in raids, if raids allow for stacking, but it is currently strongly outclassed by other builds.

I agree with what Scrimshaw wrote, I think this is not good for fractals at all.

It might be useful in raids. It seems to me the general consensus is a raid composition will have extremely specialized roles, with pure DPS and pure healers, but if no one needs healing at the time, the pure healing druid will be a complete waste. This build provides reasonable damage while still being pretty much a pure healer if needed. The question is whether a zealots druid would be the better alternative.

Thank you @Scrimshaw.
I wouldn’t believe I’d find someone who would give himself the trouble to explain it all step by step. I truly owe you one and I do respect your tribute.

@Zach
I’ll just add few more points to support my claims about wrong numbers:
Frost Spirit =/= 10% damage. It’s 7,5%
Glyph of Empowerment =/= 10%. It’s 5% (if we take Grace of the Land synergy into account. Without it it’s 3,75%)
Grace of the Land =/= 15%. It’s situational. If you provide full 15% it means your DPS is flat which means reducing team DPS in the end.
Sun Spirit damage is based on your condition damage for every ally affected. If you don’t know this – it again only proves you lack knowledge about this game.
Again. Not an offense. It’s a proof.

Furthermore, DPS is not measured by condition Bomb that is on 25 second cooldown for you. Perfect DPS of Viper Ranger is around 8200 (without party buffs). DPS of your build is nothing but a weak tiny bit of it. I tested it.
If we assume you’ll be using your staff to bolster CAF your DPS will be pointless. If we assume you won’t be using CAF and proc Grace of the Land from Glyphs only – you don’t need staff. And you already sacrificed more than 30% of your damage from Spirit and Trap.

Bonus: If you think Frost Spirit is so much better than Sun one (especially in high fractals) – go grab a calculator. That’s not an offense. That’s a suggestion. You might get surprised.
I am sorry for my replies sound like “grudge”. But there’s currently no other way to tell people straight when their information is incorrect. If your build is inferior to ones and it can be proven with numbers and data – it simply is.
If you want to know why – learn or ask around. Everybody will tell you that I never let anyone without an answer if the person wasn’t just egoistically trolling.

Look guys all you dps hotheads this build is NOT for optimised dps or Organised groups that don’t need healing! I already stated it in the post why can’t you guys read?! It’s for people looking for a balance between support and dps! It is addressed to the people I’ve heard in LA asking for a Druid build with staff! Wtf is wrong with you guys?! This is NOT a meta build, it is NOT the best optimised build in the game for Organised groups. When did I ever mention this? My thread title says sharing my Druid build, it doesn’t say best Druid build in the game. So pls if you are here to talk about optimising dps on a ranger or Druid you are obviously just trolling or plain ignorant. I also stated in my build I used apothecary which is MAIN HEALING POWER mixed with rabid, it is NOT a full dps build! Come on learn to read guys. The reason I stated it is close to max dps rotation is if you use VIPERS gear with this build, it is almost a mirror or the double axe meta condi build EXCEPT it uses a staff, hence I said there would be a dps lost downtime. Seriously WTF?! Can you read at all? You pointed out that my build has a dps loss YES I already stated that in my post! Why are you guys still hollering on about dps when this frikin thread is not even a dps Druid build! Let me repeat, it is a staff axe torch build balanced around support and dps, apothecary being more support and vipers being closer to the meta! Come on it’s not that hard to understand.
And come on the numbers you provided about the dps buff is calculated by the uptime of it in consideration. But it is STILL the most group dps buff the ranger can provide. And yes I might not have known about the sun spirit fact but if you had just told me that from the start wouldn’t it have been easier? Seriously this build is not for you dps crazy people, it is for the People looking for a use for staff. So pls take your kittening bullcrap dps argument out of my thread pls.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zach.2618:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Zach

I did read through your post. Your statements are incorrect. You proved it with your reply. You literally have zero idea about the game, yet. That is something you can’t hide anymore. Targeting people to be “sheep” just because they have better knowledge will not help you promote the build.

I would gladly explain why are you wrong, which numbers are wrong and why is your build weaker than any of it’s fellows… But you were never interested in that. If you were, you’d ask for them instead of hating “meta” that existed for a reason.

What I have problems are not walls of text, because I did read through the one of yours. I have problems reading highly self-valued intel repelling reality or constructive criticism.

By this moment, it’s just obvious the build you provided has not a single fact or number to hold onto and can simply be deemed inefficient.

Do have some kind of secret agenda against me or something? Did I ever insult you in anyway before this post? Because seriously it seems like you might have a personal issue with me more than you have my build.
First of all I have in no where mentioned that my build is the highest condi dps for ranger, i even stated it in my original post. This build is mainly for the people who I have heard asking about balancing support with dps as a Druid when I was sitting around in LA, it is a build I mainly posted to help out other rangers who might be at a lost as to finding a good line between support and dps.
Secondly why do you keep saying I have totally no idea about the game? Is it because I admitted that I am a new ranger? Does that make you think you are infinitely better than me? I didn’t even brag about my experience in the game and am so humble to share a build I found useful to me as a new ranger.
If you must know how inexperienced I am at the game, I have done all of the dungeons countless times with various classes except ranger and necro. I main an engi if you must know. I’ve soloed Arah among other small dungeons, done my share of fotm, hit 100 with the achievements 3 days after HoT launched with a PUG group (yes you can pug you just need to know what to do), pvped a ton 4K matches 1k ranked matches with 600 wins, so yeah if you want proof just add me and hit me up in game I’d gladly prove it to you. I’m not saying I’m the most experienced player in the game but I am IMO not inexperienced.
Lastly I have nvr once in this post stated that I hated meta, in fact I often run meta in min max speed run groups back when dungeons were popular. I am also a guy of min maxing my stats so I am very appreciative of meta builds that avid testers have put out. This build that I have shared it a mix of support and dps which you probably won’t find being meta because it is not the MAX dps build meant for Organised groups. However you will find this build to be very good in pugs and Organised groups.

I’m sorry I had to end up sharing my experience a little (bragging if you must) but when being called inexperienced for no apparent reason besides what I can see as a personal vendetta against me, I feel pushed to defend myself. Now pls tell me how experienced are you?

He doesn’t have any kind of vendetta against you. He’s just pointing out—what is obvious to experienced Rangers and Druids—the flaws in your build. In attributing the weaknesses of the build (and your inexplicable lack of knowledge of build editors) to your inexperience, he is giving you the benefit of the doubt. Nothing malicious here. And quite frankly, you are not exactly being humble in your OP or any of the following posts—which is fine, but then you need to back your assertions with some sort of proof. Nobody is concerned with your personality, but they will address the flaws in the build that you posted.

The fact that you completed FotM 100 with this build is irrelevant, considering healing is not required for FotM 1-100—especially now that enemies hit like wet noodles. Optimizing DPS is the strongest group support that you can provide as a Ranger, considering Rangers are one of the few classes with very strong condition damage builds—placing right behind Viper Engineers, who have the highest in-game DPS and a much more complicated rotation.

On to your build. You overstate the potential of this build considerably, especially considering that it requires stacking for optimization of GotL. You suffer a huge DPS loss in several key ways that is NOT compensated for by your group support. Using Staff at all is a huge DPS loss, since it has no condition pressure even with the sigils you have applied. You use it to fill CAF, which you then camp—close to a 100% personal DPS loss for up to 9 seconds while you wait for Quickdraw’s ICD.

At the very least, you are losing 50% (more if you ever camp staff) of your personal DPS to maintain a potential +15% bonus on your party members—which requires stacking your party members in a small area. Your use of Apothecary armor further reduces your personal DPS. Stating that “this rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condition build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage” is demonstrably false and deserves ridicule.

Using Glyph of Empowerment, Grace of the Land, and Frost Spirit do not provide the same DPS increases on higher-level fractals as they do on lower-level fractals due to increased Toughness scaling on enemies. Condition damage is far superior to direct damage. You also do not use one of the best condition support utilities in the game: Sun Spirit. This alone makes your build weaker. Using the Jungle Stalker implies that your group has trouble stacking might, which is by itself up to a 25% DPS increase that doesn’t require a group member losing ~50% of their personal DPS. Stacking Vulnerability provides another DPS increase that is possible without personal sacrifice.

Tl;dr: Your claims regarding the build’s DPS are highly inflated, and the support the build provides is unnecessary in fractals. It may be useful in raids, if raids allow for stacking, but it is currently strongly outclassed by other builds.

I didn’t say it is better than any kittening builds out there, the thread title merely says sharing my Druid build! Yes I use apothecary but I also stated you can use vipers to get closer to the meta condi ranger which would be close to the dps of double axe torch but loses out a few seconds because of the need to switch to staff and wait for the weapon swap cooldown! I already stated all these facts in my post! Did you even read it? And the sun spirit fact I did not know that took into account your own condition dmg but now I know! That’s is because I’m a new kittening ranger! But did anyone care to mention about the sun spirit instead of just shooting out snark remarks? No! Why do you keep talking about Optimisation of dps and kitten, if people wanted a dps meta build it is already there! My build is not an optimised build for kittens sake.

FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW IT IS A DPS LOSS COMPARED TO A META CONDI RANGER BUILD, YOU ARE EITHER BLIND OR TROLLING. NOWHERE IN THIS THREAD DID I SAY THIS IS THE OPTIMIZED BUILD FOR ORGANIZED GROUPS. NO kittenING WHERE, THE TITLE JUST SAYS SHARING MY DRUID BUILD! I EVEN EXPLAINED WHO THIS BUILD IS FOR! IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE IN LA I HEARD ASKING HOW TO USE A STAFF ON DRUID WITHOUT GOING FULL WET PAPER TOWEL. FOR kitten SAKES STOP HATING ON EVERYTHING BEFORE READING, LEARN TO READ BEFORE HATING

OH LORD kitten ME! IT IS SO FRUSTRATING TRYING EXPLAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN TO PEOPLE WHO CANT kittenING READ! IT IS AS IF THEY ARE BABIES OR SOMETHING

DO YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT SOME OF YOU COMMENTS GUYS? ITS LIKE IM SELLING ORANGES AND YOU WANNA BUY APPLES, SO YOU COME INTO MY SHOP AND START COMPLAINING WHY I DONT SELL APPLES. LISTEN UP KIDS, I DONT SELL APPLES BECAUSE MY SHOP kittenING SELLS ORANGES! THIS IS NOT A FULL ON DPS RANGER BUILD! IT IS JUST A kittenING BUILD I WANNA SHARE WITH WHOEVER THAT WANTS TO USE A FREAKING STAFF. SO FOR kitten SAKES STOP COMING INTO MY SHOP ASKING FOR APPLES! OMG!

But seriously though stop asking for apples pls. Yes I appreciate the sun spirit fact, but that is so far the only useful change I will make to this build, because this is not a kittening Apple stand. I’m selling oranges. You want Apples? There has Long been an apple shop at the meta build corner for you to buy apples. I’m selling god kitten oranges.

It is our concern to raise up proud community that isn’t classified as “Bearbow”.
If apple is better than an orange (let’s go with the terminology when you started), we’ll naturally say that to all the members of the forums. Do you have any idea how many trolls from other classes come here daily? And how is our Class treated because of that? Of course we don’t want them to believe anything they see here.

If you don’t want your orange to be messed up with apples, don’t list it as such. Or if you do – don’t get surprised if people realize it soon enough.
There’s nothing wrong with a build to be inefficient. If people you play with are okay with that – there’s no harm done. Some people might not be, though.

But if you lie to people (potentially looking for apples = efficiency) about what your orange provides (like the damage boosting numbers) it’s my concern to tell them the truth.
There’s no harm meant in correcting mistakes. Since you shared your opinion on how our comment look I can share mine.
You sound like you are proud of a wonderful build and you can’t accept reality that it isn’t just as good as you expected it to be when it came to facts.

And hey guys add me in game. I will personally sacrifice 5g to buy the pvp vipers amulet to use with this build and show you the rotation on the golem. While you guys go get your meta axe torch build. I will show you that the dps loss is there but it is not that far off. With the approx 5 Sec dps loss when I switch to staff. Any of you guys up for the challenge? You got nothing to lose since you guys are obviously expert Rangers and perfect at your rotations. Just add me and Whisper me anytime I’m online.

Hey tragic add me in game, I’ll show you the rotation, we can compare it with the your own meta dps. I will show you I am not lying when I said a dps loss of approx 5 secs because of staff. You seem to know your stuff but I think you don’t know the rotation I am speaking off, add me I’ll show you. Nothing to lose right? I’ll add you too when I’m next online. I’ll be using a vipers amulet with exactly the build I mentioned above using axe torch and a staff, while you can use any max dps build you want and we can compare dps on the indestructible golem. If you think I’m lying I will prove you wrong. Words are just words they don’t matter right? I’ll show you personally, just add me and show up.

Oh and also after you guys add me maybe we can run a 100 fotm or something and you guys can bring your meta dps Rangers^^ not that I’m doubting your suggestion that everything in fotm hits like a wet noodle. Of course you guys are pro Rangers and have experienced 94 97 and 100 with absolutely non of the ridiculous nonsense like heals and support classes. You guys probably went all out meta dps on every floor since they all hit like wet noodles:D so after you guys add me maybe we can run a few of those floors with your suggested builds^^ it would be fun I promise since you guys are pro Rangers ofc! Again I’m not doubting your claims or anything, as noob as I am I would love to see the pros at work in the higher lvl fotm where apparently everything hits like a wet noodle to their meta dps builds. That ofc after we compare dps on the golem^^ I’ll be waiting guys!:D don’t leave me hanging, Whisper me in game sometime^^

I addressed the support issue briefly in my comment (the best support you can give is to bring full DPS as a condition Ranger). I’ll get back to that concept at the end, but first will address your build’s support. To break this down further, let us separate offensive support and defensive support:

Offensive support: As stated previously, the offensive support your build provides is toothless due to a) the Toughness scaling on enemies and b) the personal sacrifice required to support in this manner. Your non-Spirit offensive support also relies entirely on party stacking.

Defensive support: All your support comes down to a single factor: healing. Support is more than healing. The best support negates damage entirely, through Protection, Aegis, Resistance, evasion, blocking, condition cleanse, and mobility skills, rather than relying on reversing the damage through Healing. In attempting to maximize your offensive support, you have drastically reduced the effectiveness of your defensive support. Your healing support also requires stacking, which greatly offsets its usefulness in mobile fights and may in fact increase the damage your allies take by keeping them in the range of AoEs and cleaving skills. Your build only provides weak, one-dimensional defensive support in the form of Healing, when it could offer much more.

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Getting back to “the best defense is a good offense”. As a Ranger, you have some of the highest condition damage potential in the game. In eschewing this role, you are increasing the length of every fight you participate in. If you could make the fight go…let’s say, 1/5th faster (if you are the only Ranger/Engineer in the party, this number is much higher), that means by pure DPS you have negated the damage your allies take by 20%. Full stop. You can supplement this with healing and defensive support if you wish. However, any time you sacrifice strong offensive power for strong defensive power, you are increasing the damage your allies take, and you are not helping anyone. You are making the fight longer and therefore harder for your allies, allowing your allies to take more damage over the course of the battle.

Keep your personal DPS high through Armor/Weapons/Trinkets/Traits, keep the best DPS rotations when possible, and use supportive utilities to help your party’s offense/defense when needed. This is the best way to provide support as a Ranger/Druid in higher-level fractals.

@Zach
I added you but it seems we missed each other in game.
Here, http://s1.postimg.org/os2rzyori/Ranger_Viper_DPS.jpg

I might be busy these few days so if you want to compare the DPS feel free to do so. The meter is called jaxnX, it’s a freeware and easy to get.
If I’m free I’ll stop by and we can have a session.
The point, however, is that you keep missing the message. I bring much more support with my current build (still in Zerker stats, don’t sue me, I still don’t feel like investing so much gold into equip or multiple stats changes I might end up needing prior to Raids)

And people don’t need me for DPS at all. But it’s simply way superior to what your build offers. If I compare how much damage I prevented with 14 sec AoE daze every 20 seconds to your dedicated healer, I guess it’s pretty much clear who takes the cookie in the end.

If I decide to support a group, I always think about what do I bring. And the amount of support your build brings is much lower than you could support the group with by pure damage.
Plus… You are most likely talking about 80+ fractals. Where everything is so overcapped by toughness that anything else but conditions is redundant. Why would you strive so much to increase Raw Damage by Both Spirit and Glyph when none of those contribute to the type of damage you all are going for?

Hi tragic positive:D thanks for finally crunching out some numbers and giving me some useful feedback and comparisons that I can actually see^^ after sleeping a little and having a fresh mind I realize you guys think that my build is a total support build which leads to a lot of dps lost. However that is not the case:D I don’t think you guys understand what im trying to share in my post. Im not trying to share the highest dps capable for rangers, what im trying to share is how to use a DRUID with a STAFF, being able to support with grace of the land and heals at the same time while sacrificing a little dps than the condi meta dual axe torch ranger. By little I am not totally lying about the fact when I say the dps loss Is about 5 to 7 secs when I swap to staff as staff has no condition dmg at all.

Since you guys are so insistent on calling me a liar about the numbers I have shared, I downloaded jaxnX to test it out myself, and after abit if testing I have gotten some results:D

The 1st picture is when I tested with settlers amulet, which most similarly represents the condition dmg of apothecary in PVE, and the 2nd picture is when I tested with vipers amulet. In both cases I tested as a solo player and had almost 0 vuln on the golem and only about 3 to 5 might from blasting into my firefield with staff and using jungle stalker. That being said if I was in an optimized group I would not use jungle stalker and swap in a better dps pet if I already have 25 might, but this was just for testing purposes.

As you can see the dps I output is nowhere as puny as you guys claim it to be, that is because of my rotation with staff and axe torch which I have explained in my original post which is to reduce the dps loss from taking a staff. Obviously there would be a dps drop from using double axe torch because again staff is not a condi weapon and the loss would be about 5 to 7 secs from weapon swap cooldown.

Tragic positive thanks for sharing your picture and id assume you tested with 20 might or there about with that screenshot? I can see the golem being targeted so I cannot tell how much vuln the golem has but I do see a few people standing around. But in any case I believe my numbers would be higher if I had more might and party support which I dont^^

I hope with my proof of testing you guys will understand that im trying to share a staff axe torch rotation for people wanting to use a DRUID with STAFF and minimizing dps lost.

I thank you guys for sharing the sun spirit information with me as I did not know that sun spirit depended only on MY condition dps^^ I will definitely be using sun spirit from now on in a party situation.

If you guys have any other questions about my build or my rotation which I might not have explained clearly in words, feel free to hit me up in game and id be willing to show you. Ive tested many dps build rotations on the indestructible golem and I can assure you by no means is my build killing the golem that much slower than other dps builds:D hit me up in game and ill show you the rotation. You gotta see it to believe it right?

BONUS: I know you guys love dps and defending rangers roll in a party as a dps class, but in all honesty if I want to dps in a party id bring a real DPS class. Not trying to say that rangers are not top DPS ofc they are good but if you guys really want to stick to you words by saying the best support is the best dps than IMO you shouldn’t be playing ranger in a party. Engis can dps & provide utility, while a ranger if you go pure condi dps meta is actually a huge let down, not to mention Engis actually do condi dps better than rangers. The 3rd picture thanks to my new found love JaxnX is not the DPS of a ranger OR engi. IMO it will be the new TOP DPS class in the next meta, ofc If you wanna know what class and build that is you gotta wait for it to be to become META since apparently you guys like META so much (which IMO only means popular, and sometimes the best might not be the most popular) I took the 3rd picture soloing the golem with only 3 might and 4 vuln, the DPS would be way higher in a party, not to mention the DPS in the picture is not the highest it can go as condis build up over time, I just happened to take the picture a little too early. So yeah:/ sadly if you wanna ’support’you party through DPS ranger is not the class to go to. In my test im using a rabids amulet with Balthazar rune. In a real PVE scenario I would switch to vipers and use food buffs to upkeep 100% condition duration, which would also buff my bleed duration from 33% to 77% leading to a huge DPS increase^^ If I were to use vipers in pvp it would actually be a dps loss from rabids due to not having the required food buffs.

Yes Zach, some of these guys like to jump in threads and just assume it’s all about dps and zerker because that’s what mentality they are still stuck in. I won’t name any names, but they are not paying attention to the shifting meta that will require more defined roles, along with gear and trait changes to enhance these roles. You can even provide dev quotes stating and referencing these things, but some just assume that because the beginner beta raid wing can be done with mostly “me too” zerker set ups, means it will stay that way for raids forever. Little do they know, though, the devs are monitoring these things and modifying it to continuously to kill off most of the current zerker meta. What’s funny is that the devs intent on change can clearly be seen by all the dead zerker wearing people in HoT zone events, and that’s just a taste of how raids and future content will er zealots (pun intended) will start threads complaning about needing to invest in ascended gear that’s not zerker because they’ve been able to get by, or be carried, in their exotic zerker duds up until this point. It will be glorious seeing certain people pinging their ascended soldiers and nomad gear begging for those tanking and healing spots on a good raid team.

Swagger.1459:

stuff

Your bizarre passive aggressiveness aside, there are no truly serious players that insist on using zerker if it’s not the most efficient for group content. The thing meta-hating soldiers gear people in the old dungeon meta never got is that zerk users want to be as efficient as possible, by taking the best possible builds and gear; they weren’t simply being elitist. Those same people have since moved on to vipers for high level fractals. And those same people are going to use whatever gear is most efficient for finishing raids.

Basically, the meta is always the most effective way to be successful, and the gear worn is not based on simply liking something. Going against the meta is by very definition making your team less likely to succeed.

Zerk is almost without doubt going to be part of the raid meta. Heralds, thieves, mesmers and warriors will probably all use it. Engis will use vipers. And I suspect there will be 1-3 people per raid team that aren’t full glass. But time will tell, and the meta will be dictated by success and math instead of your very odd anger.

Swagger.1459:

Yes Zach, some of these guys like to jump in threads and just assume it’s all about dps and zerker because that’s what mentality they are still stuck in. I won’t name any names, but they are not paying attention to the shifting meta that will require more defined roles, along with gear and trait changes to enhance these roles. You can even provide dev quotes stating and referencing these things, but some just assume that because the beginner beta raid wing can be done with mostly “me too” zerker set ups, means it will stay that way for raids forever. Little do they know, though, the devs are monitoring these things and modifying it to continuously to kill off most of the current zerker meta. What’s funny is that the devs intent on change can clearly be seen by all the dead zerker wearing people in HoT zone events, and that’s just a taste of how raids and future content will er zealots (pun intended) will start threads complaning about needing to invest in ascended gear that’s not zerker because they’ve been able to get by, or be carried, in their exotic zerker duds up until this point. It will be glorious seeing certain people pinging their ascended soldiers and nomad gear begging for those tanking and healing spots on a good raid team.

My thoughts exactly^^ not everything is about being max dps and my build is certainly not Optimised for max dps as a rangerXD have no idea why my thread suddenly became a dps battle zone.

I would argue it’s a “facts zone”, and DPS is just part of the facts. You have to look at everything a build offers in actual numbers to see if it’s any good.

Fluffball.8307:

Swagger.1459:

stuff

Your bizarre passive aggressiveness aside, there are no truly serious players that insist on using zerker if it’s not the most efficient for group content. The thing meta-hating soldiers gear people in the old dungeon meta never got is that zerk users want to be as efficient as possible, by taking the best possible builds and gear; they weren’t simply being elitist. Those same people have since moved on to vipers for high level fractals. And those same people are going to use whatever gear is most efficient for finishing raids.

Basically, the meta is always the most effective way to be successful, and the gear worn is not based on simply liking something. Going against the meta is by very definition making your team less likely to succeed.

Zerk is almost without doubt going to be part of the raid meta. Heralds, thieves, mesmers and warriors will probably all use it. Engis will use vipers. And I suspect there will be 1-3 people per raid team that aren’t full glass. But time will tell, and the meta will be dictated by success and math instead of your very odd anger.

Erm nope meta is not always the most effective way to be successful. Unless ofc you run pre made groups all the time for every single group instanced content in the game with a preset strategy which revolves around the meta. I’m sure there are many people who have played a certain class Long enough that they have broken out of the meta and instead found a build that works better for them and the role they are playing. Meta is simply just a build template for people who just want a reasonably decent build without building one themselves. Moral of the story? Don’t get bound by the meta, go create and test builds on your own instead of following a link every time you want to improve on your class. Understand WHAT makes the dps of the meta possible, for example QuickDraw is the main trait which up keeps the dps of meta condi axe torch Rangers, so I went to experiment and play around with a rotation such that I can utilise the QuickDraw trait even when I’m using a staff axe and torch so that I don’t lose out on much dps. It’s not as simple as saying ‘oh once you take a staff you are just a dead weight 0 dps to the group’ Hence the purpose of my post was to share my rotation which utilises the main trait in the dps meta condi ranger QuickDraw by using a staff. The same goes for every class out there, play around with the traits, use the meta as a template and not the final product, play how you want and make it work for you.

Have you ever thought how meta builds were created? It’s by people who extensively tested various build to come up with the most efficient way to do something. And it often becomes meta because those testers are popular. Just because I’m a new ranger on the scene and not well known does not mean that my build is trash. If you think this build sucks why don’t you come up with a different build and rotation which utilises a staff Druid and try to match my dps numbers and support capabilities.

Fluffball.8307:

I would argue it’s a “facts zone”, and DPS is just part of the facts. You have to look at everything a build offers in actual numbers to see if it’s any good.

Well I posted some numbers in one of my post above as a screen shot, there was another screen shot by tragic positive of his meta condi ranger. Why don’t you compare those 2 numbers and tell me the difference, keep in mind he has 20 might and I have only 3, with more might our numbers would be closer. My dps however would obviously be lower but that because I’m using a staff. However I utilise a unique rotation which enables me to upkeep decent dps despite that. Why don’t you show me how much dps you can output as a Druid wielding a staff? Feel free to use any build you like as Long as you are a Druid with a staff, which is the essential part of this thread. To help people who want to play a Druid with a staff.

I was mistaken to post in this thread, against my better judgment. Zach, you’re not going to get any constructive feedback at all in future threads because any time anyone posts on any subject, you respond as though you are debating the entire forum.

Fluffball.8307:

I was mistaken to post in this thread, against my better judgment. Zach, you’re not going to get any constructive feedback at all in future threads because any time anyone posts on any subject, you respond as though you are debating the entire forum.

Indeed you are mistaken, this is a thread with a build for people looking to use a Druid and a Staff. It has nvr been about being the most optimised dps build for rangers. I have no idea what more do you want? I have posted screenshots proving that the numbers are not terrible on this build. So what? Do you want me to change my entire build to a axe torch condi ranger build? What good would that do? Everyone already knows the max condi dps ranger build. I seriously don’t get what you are trying to imply, is every ranger build other than the condi dps meta build bad? Or what? I’m trying to help people who wanna use a Druid and a staff what is so hard to understand about that. Everyone already knows the dps condi meta build for rangers so why are you here repeating the same thing on a build that is totally not challenging the dps of that? Why do you keep bring up Dps? You want dps? Go play condi meta ranger, it’s simple its there, this is not a dps build. Pls enlighten me as to what exactly is your point in posting on this thread. If it’s just to say my build has worst dps than the meta condi ranger build than I would kindly ask you to kitten off and go troll somewhere else, because this is totally not at all a build meant for MAX dps on a ranger.

And I DO like constructive feedback for instance the sunspirit fact about my build I did not know about, I appreciated that feedback and thanked the person who brought it up. But if by your terms constructive feedback means comparing my builds dps to the condi meta ranger dps, than I think you might be kittened. Again apples and oranges. I’m selling oranges you come into my shop and ask why are my oranges not as good as apples? You see? It doesn’t make any sense? If you want apples go buy apples, if you want oranges come to my shop. The sun spirit fact was a constructive feedback, it was like saying why are some of my oranges so small I should make them bigger. YES I appreciate you giving me feedback about my oranges. But when you start comparing my oranges to apples its it really kind of silly don’t you think? Ok so you want dps, let’s say you want my oranges to taste as much like apples as possible or that you want the vitamins apples give that oranges do not. Yes I can try to make my oranges as similar to apples as possible but at the end of the day they are still oranges! I can’t change the fact tha my build has lower dps because I’m using a staff which is the whole point of the build, Druid staff! Do you see now? Do you see how silly of an argument you are making? Geez it’s like I gotta explain I dont sell apples a thousand times.

Ok, one last try here. This is just life advice, not ranger advice. Every time you post, you make incredible, wild assumptions about an imaginary forum-foe. I honestly think you’ve combined every forum poster into one adversary, and I’m not being facetious.

When you read things online, start from a perspective of the writer not attacking you or even not talking to you. Many of the posts you’re responding to are other forum members talking amongst themselves.

I haven’t actually written a single post that was directed to you other than the one where I just addressed you by name. I’ve made no suggestions as to how to change your build at all. And yet you fill the page with invented criticism direct at you and ranting responses.

Try taking a few minutes between reading a post and writing a response.

Let the guy or gal share his or her build in peace. Geez

Fluffball.8307:

Ok, one last try here. This is just life advice, not ranger advice. Every time you post, you make incredible, wild assumptions about an imaginary forum-foe. I honestly think you’ve combined every forum poster into one adversary, and I’m not being facetious.

When you read things online, start from a perspective of the writer not attacking you or even not talking to you. Many of the posts you’re responding to are other forum members talking amongst themselves.

I haven’t actually written a single post that was directed to you other than the one where I just addressed you by name. I’ve made no suggestions as to how to change your build at all. And yet you fill the page with invented criticism direct at you and ranting responses.

Try taking a few minutes between reading a post and writing a response.

Fluffball, I fear your advice falls on deaf ears. Since the beginning, he has conflated every poster who criticized his build into one META monolith. Considering I have offered advice on how to improve his defensive support capabilities (in a very non-META manner), and he has completely ignored this advice, I think it is safe to say he doesn’t really care what individual posters are writing at this point and just wants to rant about META players.

Swagger.1459:

Let the guy or gal share his or her build in peace. Geez

Of course players are going to offer constructive criticism on a publicly-posted build that does nothing well within the boundaries of its stated purpose. It has nothing to do with META, but strengthening the build. Since OP made claims about DPS (especially given that much of the build is dedicated to providing party DPS in a manner that is lackluster in higher-level fractals), it is perfectly ordinary that people are going to challenge these claims. I also challenged his defensive support and offered advice on how he could improve that, should he desire to provide meaningful defensive support with his build.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Swagger.1459:

Let the guy or gal share his or her build in peace. Geez

Of course players are going to offer constructive criticism on a publicly-posted build that does nothing well within the boundaries of its stated purpose. It has nothing to do with META, but strengthening the build. Since OP made claims about DPS (especially given that much of the build is dedicated to providing party DPS in a manner that is lackluster in higher-level fractals), it is perfectly ordinary that people are going to challenge these claims. I also challenged his defensive support and offered advice on how he could improve that, should he desire to provide meaningful defensive support with his build.

What actual advice have you given me besides the sun spirit fact? Which I have already said I appreciate. Besides listing all the various defensive support skills which I already know how about you tell me how I can switch up my traits to another better trait? Or how to change my rotation, or changing my gear or runes of sigils? All the stuff that you have posted besides the sun spirit fact, which again you are right I should be using a sun spirit of that’s the case, are just the facts about what a ranger can do. You have contributed 0 suggestions towards the traits I can swap out, 0 suggestions to the rotation to improve my dps, 0 suggestions towards the weapons and gear I am using, 0 suggestions or screenshots of your own which could help me improve this Druid staff build. The only thing you have actually done is listing all the facts about what skills and traits a ranger has. So technically besides the sun spirit fact you have contributed 0 number crunching, 0 rotation improvements, 0 trait changes I can replace, 0 gear changes I can make, and overall just a big rant on my personal issues with the apparent foe that I have. At least when tragic positive critisized my build he linked me numbers of the dps meta ranger and linked me a tool so I can compare my dps to his. At least he criticised and helped me in some way. What have you don’t besides being a kitten listing down various ranger traits and stuff? Yeah trait knowledge is good and all but if you can suggest how I can add them into my build without affecting my dps than your trait knowledge is basically just a copy paste from the wiki. Why do I need you to tell me what various traits do when I can just look at the wiki? So instead of claiming that you are giving constructive feedback, why don’t you actually give some constructive feedback?

THE ONLY REAL PERSON WHO HAS GIVEN ME CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK AND CRITICISED MY BUILD HERE IS TRAGIC POSITIVE. AFTER CRITISIZING MY NUMBERS HE WENT AHEAD TO GIVE HIS OWN NUMBERS AND EVEN A TOOL FOR ME TO COMPARE MY NUMBERS TO HIS. IMO THAT IS MORE HELPFUL THAN ALL YOU OTHER PEOPLE WHO JUST TALK SMACK. EVEN THOUGH TRAGIC POSITIVE MIGHT HAVE CRITISIZED MY BUILD ALBIET VAGUELY WITH HIS 1ST COMMENT, HE HAS MY RESPECT BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY WANTED ME TO PROVE MY NUMBERS AGAINST HIS AND NOT JUST BRINGING SWAPPING MY BUILD ASIDE JUST BECAUSE IT LOOKED NOT OPTIMAL TO HIM.

Other than tragic positive who has given me constructive feedback and tool support (jaxnx), the people who have supported my build, and the sun spirit fact that I now know, the rest of the comments are just pointless rants about either how I suck, or my build sucks. I don’t think some of you guys here know what constructive feedback actually means.

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

A lot of the comments here are just basically you guys supporting each other on how you have criticised my build and how I am an idiot. It’s like you guys are just here to boost each other’s ego or something.

@ OP: There is no conspiracy of Ranger players here. You are badmouthing people who offer you genuine advice because they want to see your build improved. You admitted to being an inexperienced Ranger player, and it shows—especially considering you think that Ranger isn’t a “real” DPS class. But since you claim that DPS isn’t important, let’s readdress your support.

Again, if you want to provide useful support to your allies, I suggested many options in one of my previous comments that you completely ignored. To rehash the most important points:

• Shorter fights = less damage taken by your party members.
• Preventing damage always trumps healing damage.
• Relying on stacking for ANY support in FotM 91-100 is counterintuitive because of the Social Awkwardness instability. You are killing your allies if you require them to stack for your support. Agony reduces the effectiveness of healing as well.
• Traiting Spirits to pulse boons is some of the best support you can give your allies, especially with the Boon Thieves instability.

There is a reason that people are giving you the same advice as one another, and it has nothing to do with some ridiculous grand META conspiracy. (In fact, I don’t even play a META build.) You posted a build on a public forum, and other players provided feedback. Nothing more.

Zach.2618:

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

Okay, here it is.

Scrimschaw.5784:

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Unless you would like me to list CC skills, I think this was pretty specific.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zach.2618:

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

Okay, here it is.

Scrimschaw.5784:

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Unless you would like me to list CC skills, I think this was pretty specific.

Yeah but which traits do I replace those with? I don’t need YOU to tell me what the traits do I have the wiki for that. Listing traits is good and all but how do I use it to improve my build? Which trait line do I replace? I wish I had more trait lines so I can take every trait but apparently I only have 3. Anyways I met up with tragic positive and apparently he told me you knew him yeah so I Guess you were just trying to defend him. Ah well I won’t post here anymore, tragic positive linked me to the daze build you guys were talking about with spirits and all but yeah I got my own ways to deal with dazing mobs. It’s all good you guys can enjoy your daze build and such I got no issues.

Yup, I’ve discussed stuff with Zach in-game.

The reason why he didn’t take all the CC but went for that Condi DPS sort of healer is because they already had someone to bring an enormous amount of AoE CC which makes that form of support redundant (since daze and stun overwrites each other instead of stacking).

His goal of the build was to bring Condi DPS while maximizing the Grace of the Land potential uptime.
The only problem was that he didn’t really specify why is it okay to run the build in that way. He agreed that this is by no means the “go-to” build for any environment but he had a good point about the build that some of us already used in practice but no one saw it as a potential “mechanic”. Using CAF for proccing Quickdraw, that is.

His build indeed is able to deal roughly 75% DPS of the condition build. And he is able to use staff more often than usual builds.
Because instead of Weapon Swap, he is using CAF to proc his QuickDraw on Bonfire. And it is an interesting note to take. It’s a very interesting skill-cap mechanism that people should be aware of. And Zach would be the 1st one to bring that to forums, I have to admit.

He just didn’t specify it and we all thought he promotes a build instead of the “game-play mechanic on a completely different level”. The build itself is inferior to others but his rotation opens door to a whole new era of ideas – and the build itself just makes use of that rotation.
If you look at it from these angles of view – it makes sense.

I just wish he took the replies with more ease and chill but well… Who am I to judge.

Tragic Positive.9356:

The build itself is inferior to others but his rotation opens door to a whole new era of ideas – and the build itself just makes use of that rotation.
If you look at it from these angles of view – it makes sense.

I just wish he took the replies with more ease and chill but well… Who am I to judge.

It’s not really a whole new era, DnT has had a druid condi guide up for high level fractals for a while touting that technique. I think they still recommend the regular condi ranger, but they have a druid version for whatever reason. I stopped playing fractals a good while ago because they keep getting more and more stupid, but from what I hear it’s nearly impossible to struggle with anything but damage these days. Apparently level 100 bosses hit less hard than the old level 50.

Rapidly scoffing popcorn

Zach.2618:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zach.2618:

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

Okay, here it is.

Scrimschaw.5784:

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Unless you would like me to list CC skills, I think this was pretty specific.

Yeah but which traits do I replace those with? I don’t need YOU to tell me what the traits do I have the wiki for that. Listing traits is good and all but how do I use it to improve my build? Which trait line do I replace? I wish I had more trait lines so I can take every trait but apparently I only have 3. Anyways I met up with tragic positive and apparently he told me you knew him yeah so I Guess you were just trying to defend him. Ah well I won’t post here anymore, tragic positive linked me to the daze build you guys were talking about with spirits and all but yeah I got my own ways to deal with dazing mobs. It’s all good you guys can enjoy your daze build and such I got no issues.

I’m glad you had a chat with Tragic Positive. He’s a great guy!

Zach, I deliberately didn’t tell you exactly what traits and utilities to swap because I feel like it is more important to understand WHY to swap things out so that you can figure out which ones fit the scenario you are playing. Pure build copying/pasting is what lead to “LF1M zerk only, PS warrior or ele” META for so long, and I am in loathe to further that. IMO, there is no one “Best Build”, but there is a best build for your playstyle, your personal goals, your party setup, and the encounter you are facing. I was not trying to lead you to any specific build, including the one Tragic Positive linked.

If I were you, I wouldn’t bother with the daze build either. It doesn’t fit your stated goals. I would, however, still strongly recommend taking the Nature Magic line (I would personally swap out Wilderness Survival (the DPS loss is minimal compared to the Skirmishing Line and is offset by Bountiful Hunter). Either Evasive Purity or Vigorous Training would be strong, but dependent on fight/party composition. Nature’s Vengeance and Spirits synergize well with higher-level fractals for several reasons:

1. Spirits provide Ranger-specific party buffs that are not available to other classes
2. Spirit of Nature synergizes well with Healing Power and the Druid line
3. The number of spirit-granted boons improves DPS on classes running Bountiful Hunter-type traits
4. The boons themselves improve DPS and help mitigate damage
5. Boons are quickly reapplied after being stripped with Boon Thieves, unlike longer-duration boons applied by other classes
6. Boons and spirit effects have a large application radius (1000) and do not require stacking (important for the Social Awkwardness instability)

And, something that is often overlooked, but Spirits count as targets in AoEs and Cleaves, even if they don’t have aggro from enemies. They help mitigate the damage your allies take by distributing damage amongst non-players for attacks with a target # limit.

The reason I emphasize mitigating damage in Fractals, rather than healing damage, is because of Agony. Agony reduces received healing by ~50% per stack, which means that pure Healing Power-focused builds with no ability to mitigate damage are going to be much less effective if your allies have 1+ stacks of Agony on them (which is pretty common). While damage mitigation won’t save your allies if they are taking serious damage from Agony stacks, it will provide a buffer from enemy attacks that will allow you more time to heal them, even if they have Agony.

This is more direct advice than I prefer giving, but I hope that you find it helpful, if you are still reading this thread.