Guild Wars 2

Is there any point to running both Sharpened Edges and Sigil of Earth? Does the percentage chance for bleed from the trait line add to the chance from the sigil?

Or do they overlap, making it totally pointless to use both the trait and the sigil at once?

I’m pretty sure they’re independant of each other since they give bleeds of different durations (3s from sigil of earth, 1s from sharpened edges).

ok – but they’re still not useless if they’re separate bleeds that stack.

good to know.

dybryd.1358:

ok – but they’re still not useless if they’re separate bleeds that stack.

good to know.

No, although sharpened edges is often not taken because a 1s bleed is such small amount, whereas something like 30% additional damage to all of your pets criticals can easily amount to more than that much damage, even if you’re not running a BM build.

Dahkeus.8243:

dybryd.1358:

ok – but they’re still not useless if they’re separate bleeds that stack.

good to know.

No, although sharpened edges is often not taken because a 1s bleed is such small amount, whereas something like 30% additional damage to all of your pets criticals can easily amount to more than that much damage, even if you’re not running a BM build.

Your are right just in one case which is having pets with fast critical attacks.
With Drakes it’s useless and ( sharpened edges + sigil of earth + shortbow bleed ) will be much stronger specially with condition/precision build such as http://tinyurl.com/d8x7tug

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m pretty sure they’re independant of each other since they give bleeds of different durations (3s from sigil of earth, 1s from sharpened edges).

This pretty much and I’ve liked this in the past but honestly OP I’m guessing you’re thinking of doing this with a shortbow, with the cooldown between procs I’m really not sure either are worth it. You can never get that many bleeds running on it.

I’d much rather run a high critical chance with higher power and a sigil of fire/air/blood and Omnomberry pie, if you’re thinking of doing this with a shortbow, honestly if I was running condition damage again I just wouldn’t bother with a shortbow.

My view right now is that shortbow is really only useful in a high (around 50%+) crit build with decent power (1700 and up, 2000 is good but that will drop depending on what sort of survivability I want), you don’t see huge crits but you make up for it in high attack speed and plenty of procs. You’ll see constant 500 damage crits over and over.

A sigil of blood alone will deal a fixed 452 damage to a target, that would be at least 4-5 seconds of a single bleed, and it will proc at the same rate and with the same cooldown as your bleed chance.

So although you didn’t ask, I’m guessing you’re considering shortbow for this and I’d save yourself the pain, I couldn’t get enough from it to make it worth it.

capuchinseven.8395:

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m pretty sure they’re independant of each other since they give bleeds of different durations (3s from sigil of earth, 1s from sharpened edges).

This pretty much and I’ve liked this in the past but honestly OP I’m guessing you’re thinking of doing this with a shortbow, with the cooldown between procs I’m really not sure either are worth it. You can never get that many bleeds running on it.

I’d much rather run a high critical chance with higher power and a sigil of fire/air/blood and Omnomberry pie, if you’re thinking of doing this with a shortbow, honestly if I was running condition damage again I just wouldn’t bother with a shortbow.

My view right now is that shortbow is really only useful in a high (around 50%+) crit build with decent power (1700 and up, 2000 is good but that will drop depending on what sort of survivability I want), you don’t see huge crits but you make up for it in high attack speed and plenty of procs. You’ll see constant 500 damage crits over and over.

A sigil of blood alone will deal a fixed 452 damage to a target, that would be at least 4-5 seconds of a single bleed, and it will proc at the same rate and with the same cooldown as your bleed chance.

So although you didn’t ask, I’m guessing you’re considering shortbow for this and I’d save yourself the pain, I couldn’t get enough from it to make it worth it.

Sigil of blood has a 5second internal cd though pretty sure the tooltip is wrong, also consider earth should give you an extra tick (6seconds) on just 20% increased condition duration and 2ticks (7seconds) on 40% it’s not huge on it’s own but it’s certainly more damage than from blood and if you consider 2-3 bleed stacks it does start to become a considerable amount already, that’s if they are allowed to run their full duration of course in a pvp situation they will not always do that.

Sharpened edges is pretty garbage though as you’d not be able to increase it to more then a 2second bleed and that would be by stacking condition duration well beyond what it’s worth.

edit: Eart also has twice the proc chance of blood that would be worth noting.

The idea is to run Blood with Omnomberry Pie if you want extra healing, not really as a way of gaining more DPS. Omnomberry Pie and Sigil of Fire would be the choice to gain more damage.

Sigil of Blood on a shortbow isn’t a bad choice, and that wasn’t what I was aiming at saying, it’s just that it really doesn’t turn out as well as it sounds it will for condition damage builds in a attempt to stack bleeds.

If you want the most out of a short bow, critical/power/critical procs is a much better path.

Stacking bleeds with Sigil of Blood just doesn’t work out as awesome as it sounds in your head.

Honestly if I went condition damage again I’d go condition damage and condition duration food in a tanky, even BM build and run traps with sword/off hand and greatsword.

Shortbow is only useful for conditions if you can gain flanking and consistently keep it.

capuchinseven.8395:

The idea is to run Blood with Omnomberry Pie if you want extra healing, not really as a way of gaining more DPS. Omnomberry Pie and Sigil of Fire would be the choice to gain more damage.

Sigil of Blood on a shortbow isn’t a bad choice, and that wasn’t what I was aiming at saying, it’s just that it really doesn’t turn out as well as it sounds it will for condition damage builds in a attempt to stack bleeds.

If you want the most out of a short bow, critical/power/critical procs is a much better path.

Stacking bleeds with Sigil of Blood just doesn’t work out as awesome as it sounds in your head.

Honestly if I went condition damage again I’d go condition damage and condition duration food in a tanky, even BM build and run traps with sword/off hand and greatsword.

Shortbow is only useful for conditions if you can gain flanking and consistently keep it.

I disagree I find it works out exactly as awesome as it sounds stacking bleeds really is childsplay with a shortbow if you set it up the way I said and shortbow also has poision it’s of course going to suffer in any condition damaged based group if you’re talking dungeon bosses for example but barring that it’s quite potent in pretty much any given situation.

I have 40% to bleeds on my runes alone that gives me 2 extra ticks of bleed for each proc on earth and 1 extra on the bow’s bleed it works nicely with food too as I can get another 40% on condition duration there wich would be 6 extra ticks on each application if the group allows it or swap to an omnom pie for some extra heals when necessary.

I’m not claiming it’s the absolute best in terms of dps either but it most definetly works and you made it sound like a terrible idea at first wich is what I wanted to respond to

You say at the top that it’s as awesome as it sounds and then say that it’s not the best and that felt conflicting.

Always fine being proven wrong I went and tested with both the trait and the sigil slotted, with a 70+ chance to critical and condition/bleed duration stats and it was still below average.

I couldn’t stack more than 6ish bleeds using forward facing attacks alone and had to flank anyway making it mostly not worth the effort.

So sorry, for me it’s average at best and as I said it doesn’t work out as well as it sounds it will, it sounds like its going to be amazing but it just doesn’t deliver.

Each to their own build though.

sharpened edges is bad. 30% chance for 1 bleed lasting 1 second. pet’s prowess much better imo.

nerva.7940:

sharpened edges is bad. 30% chance for 1 bleed lasting 1 second. pet’s prowess much better imo.

Do you have any prove that its chance is 30% ?

bahaha 1s bleed. that’s some OPstuff right there. that actually rivals reanimator for worst trait.

If you had in mind using Sharpening Edges I recommend using Jaguar pet instead. When traited in the beast mastery tree it stacks a ton of critical damage + lots of bleed + vulnerability on your enemy… and they won’t see the pet coming because of it’s invisibility. That’s my solution to the crummy bleed Sharpenning Edges gives you.

The Demonic Spirit.3157:

nerva.7940:

sharpened edges is bad. 30% chance for 1 bleed lasting 1 second. pet’s prowess much better imo.

Do you have any prove that its chance is 30% ?

thats what i recall from beta

capuchinseven.8395:

You say at the top that it’s as awesome as it sounds and then say that it’s not the best and that felt conflicting.

Always fine being proven wrong I went and tested with both the trait and the sigil slotted, with a 70+ chance to critical and condition/bleed duration stats and it was still below average.

I couldn’t stack more than 6ish bleeds using forward facing attacks alone and had to flank anyway making it mostly not worth the effort.

So sorry, for me it’s average at best and as I said it doesn’t work out as well as it sounds it will, it sounds like its going to be amazing but it just doesn’t deliver.

Each to their own build though.

How is that conflicting? take things into context you don’t have to be undisputed no1 to be great either.

And judging on nothing but your test here 6stacks of bleed isn’t terrible at all on it’s own you have to remember it’s a weapon sigil should you expect 25 stacks of it? that would be madeness, you have to look at how things play together aswell it has nice synergy with crit and condition damage and that’s 600dps on a condition spec, that’s pretty good, compare that with other sigils if you like and see how many can produce 600dps more or less on their own Air or Fire would have to proc for 3000damage every 5seconds on the dot for that and I don’t think it does.

What condition duration did you have? if you can recall.

Your point misses three important issues, one is that you can land that many bleeds plus a lot more conditions (dealing more damage and making it harder to remove them because of multiple types) with a melee/trap condition build than a shortbow/trap build.

Two is that in order to run that build you need to run condition damage AND precision, the above build can run just condition damage and it’s conditions will hit harder and don’t require landing criticals to apply them.

Three, if we picked two shortbow builds your point that a Fire sigil would need to proc for 3000 damage doesn’t really make sense, all your damage would be dealt with condition bleeds and every hit you land will hit like a noodle. A Power/Precision build will crit just as often and hit much much harder by a considerable amount on every hit as well as Fire procs landing as AOE.

It isn’t a bad idea, it just doesn’t work out as well as you’d hope, 6 bleeds really isn’t anything to write home about, 12 bleeds in a very short space, that’d be nasty and would give P/D thieves something to think about.

capuchinseven.8395:

Your point misses three important issues, one is that you can land that many bleeds plus a lot more conditions (dealing more damage and making it harder to remove them because of multiple types) with a melee/trap condition build than a shortbow/trap build.

Two is that in order to run that build you need to run condition damage AND precision, the above build can run just condition damage and it’s conditions will hit harder and don’t require landing criticals to apply them.

Three, if we picked two shortbow builds your point that a Fire sigil would need to proc for 3000 damage doesn’t really make sense, all your damage would be dealt with condition bleeds and every hit you land will hit like a noodle. A Power/Precision build will crit just as often and hit much much harder by a considerable amount on every hit as well as Fire procs landing as AOE.

It isn’t a bad idea, it just doesn’t work out as well as you’d hope, 6 bleeds really isn’t anything to write home about, 12 bleeds in a very short space, that’d be nasty and would give P/D thieves something to think about.

I’m not missing any important isssues at all we were discussing the validity of a sigil, on a shortbow it works well with the high rate of attacking and together with flanking obviously even more so I never stated anything about pure melee builds with traps just that it’s a high damage sigil for shortbow that isn’t as bad as you’re trying to make it sound and your own numbers prove me right.

Your second point isn’t really a point since we’re not exclusively discussing traps builds you can run a condition spec without them too but sure you need some decent amount of crit chance to use crit sigils you can easily get that and condition damage at the same time If you choose to.

Third, stand alone it does some considerable damage probably more so than most sigils (judging from your own test) it appears to do upto 3 times the dps of the fire or air sigils on single targets so you are arguing against your own numbers that you can’t see how it makes sense to point that out is beyond me frankly.

No.

My testing was done using Sigil of Earth and Sharpened Edges which is the entire point of this thread. At absolute very best on a heavy golem I could manage 6 stacks which is where you’re basing your point and where the discussion on it sounding better than what it actually is started.

Using only a Sigil of Earth that stack is considerably lower. At very best I managed 3 stacks and that was the very top best and often only 2.

You’re basing your entire point about a single sigil on a sigil and a trait used with each other in a high condition damage build.

capuchinseven.8395:

No.

My testing was done using Sigil of Earth and Sharpened Edges which is the entire point of this thread. At absolute very best on a heavy golem I could manage 6 stacks which is where you’re basing your point and where the discussion on it sounding better than what it actually is started.

Using only a Sigil of Earth that stack is considerably lower. At very best I managed 3 stacks and that was the very top best and often only 2.

You’re basing your entire point about a single sigil on a sigil and a trait used with each other in a high condition damage build.

Ah that’s true it was both sharpened edges and earth, even so if you cut it in half and say it can maintain 3stacks on it’s own (and I’m quite positive that is giving sharpened edges too much credit) it would still mean 50% more dps than both fire and air on a single target, I think it’s important to remember it’s just a weapon sigil you can’t really expect much more from it.

So in conclusion I’ll concede using the term awesome was misleading even though I meant it in conjunction with flanking and increased bleed duration, on it’s own I would maintain it’s still the best dps sigil for shortbow on a condition spec a power crit spec would obviously gain more from air or fire respectively.

Sharpened edges remains kitten though but then nobody has said any diffrent either.