Guild Wars 2

They totally need to make this Adept major trait a minor one. There is no reason not to as it is a 33% down from 66% now.

Chokolata.1870:

They totally need to make this Adept major trait a minor one. There is no reason not to as it is a 33% down from 66% now.

Agree, maybe they could merge the swiftness and fury on weaponswap (i hope i have the right traitline in mind).
On the spot of the trait they could make a new one that benefits from evading attacks. Something like you get one stack of might everytime you evade an attack (1s ICD).

And if i may make a suggestion for other traits in this topic: Hidden barbs could use some versatility. E.g. You gain stealth when stunned, after gaining stealth your next attack in the next 5s does 3 stacks of bleeding. The old effect could be added to sharpening edges.

Honestly I would move both hidden barbs and sharpened edges to the minor slots. And hunters tactics to have 10% increased crit chance on bleeding foes instead of the flanking requirement.

Let’s not get crazy guys. The traits are in their place for at least a couple reasons: Flexibility and Choice.

As it is, Skirmishing is a flexible offensive traitline because it has minor traits that have the same effectiveness regardless of build. Moving strictly condition based traits from major to minor here would hamstring power builds. And “hunters tactics to have 10% increased crit chance on bleeding foes”? What good is that on LB/GS or Sw/T?

Second: Choice. If you move sharpened edges to minor, what’s the major? Right now, you have a significant choice whether you’re condi or power. For Condi do you take bleed on crits or do you buff flame trap and viper’s nest? For Power, do you want some vigor to stay alive or buff the other traps?

Look, I can agree that the nerf is kinda eh. But come on it still has no cooldown. It’s still effective and a viable choice. And it should stay a choice.

Please remember that pets also benefits from sharpened edges, so all builds would benefit due to that fact.

Eh, I’m okay with this change. It would be better to focus on the other skirmishing traits that can be a bit better with a bit of tweaks. Sharpened Edges is all right.

It’s far too weak to remain a major. It should be combined with Hidden Barbs and a new major trait created in its place.

My biggest gripe is that it conflicts with trappers expertise. Those should complement each other not be either/or.

Chokolata.1870:

My biggest gripe is that it conflicts with trappers expertise. Those should complement each other not be either/or.

You know, for as much as people want to say that both traits should be a choice against each other, it was once planned to be able to take both. Unfortunately, Most Dangerous Game happened. Anyone remember that?

Jon Peters: “Hold on a second. I want this trait [Most Dangerous Game] to be a Grandmaster. Move the Trap trait [Trapper’s Expertise] down [Master to Adept] and make the Shortbow trait [Light On Your Feet] into a Master.”

Though, Strider’s Defense eventually was moved from Grandmaster to Master since Anet wanted to thematically keep both Bow traits as Grandmasters. Ah, fun times.

Honestly, we should be able to take Sharpened edges, Hidden barbs, Trappers expertise and Light on your feet in a single build.

So like, move sharpened edges into a minor and merge the two boon minors into one minor trait. Swiftness on weapon swap is a waste of space.

And when we are at it, give traps some utility like a stun break or condi clear or some boons

It could be done and I can see why some would want it to. Though, I wouldn’t merge Tail Wind with Furious Grip.

Move the Swiftness into Primal Reflexes, then have “+10% critical hit chance on bleeding foes” as a new adept trait rather than a change to Hunter’s Tactics.

It would be a trait that would be able to benefit power and condition builds since it’s an increase to critical hit chance, and skirmishing would have a bleed on-crit minor.

Though, it wouldn’t surprise me if Hidden Barbs took a hit to like 25% if Anet made the change. Everything comes with a price.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Chokolata.1870:

My biggest gripe is that it conflicts with trappers expertise. Those should complement each other not be either/or.

You know, for as much as people want to say that both traits should be a choice against each other, it was once planned to be able to take both. Unfortunately, Most Dangerous Game happened. Anyone remember that?

Jon Peters: “Hold on a second. I want this trait [Most Dangerous Game] to be a Grandmaster. Move the Trap trait [Trapper’s Expertise] down [Master to Adept] and make the Shortbow trait [Light On Your Feet] into a Master.”

Though, Strider’s Defense eventually was moved from Grandmaster to Master since Anet wanted to thematically keep both Bow traits as Grandmasters. Ah, fun times.

Yeah that was disgusting to watch, moving kitten around on a whim with so little understanding of the class and how the traits/skills work…. makes it obvious why the game has gone so far down hill.

That incident and when they were joking around about “bear bows” ruined what little faith I still had in the company.

Hopefully we get a coherent condition build in the near future. As much as I am enjoying condition DPS ranger in PvE, it is simply not possible in PvP. The traits simply do not work well with utilities, and the utilities themselves have no utility. Talking mainly about traps here.

Chokolata.1870:

Hopefully we get a coherent condition build in the near future. As much as I am enjoying condition DPS ranger in PvE, it is simply not possible in PvP. The traits simply do not work well with utilities, and the utilities themselves have no utility. Talking mainly about traps here.

I’m interested in hearing what ya’ll think a “coherent condi build” would look like.

I actually used a condi ranger (not even druid) in Season 5. Viper’s was only ok as it was so glassy. I had to make some hard decisions to fix where the build was lacking. In the end; I took Deadshot amulet and Rune of Melandru and even dropped Beastmastery for Nature Magic. And I actually took Trapper’s Expertise over pre-nerf Sharpened Edges. It’s not an easy win by any means, but I built to overcome the challenges the other players were throwing down and did better as a result. At what tier is condi ranger not effective?

So I guess my question is: if there was one trait in every tier that was the best, no argument, for condi, why would you run anything else? If you made sharpened edges baseline, wouldn’t that reduce build diversity?

It’s such a huge nerf to my druid, and my druid wasn’t even broken. I was gonna come back to celebrate the ele buffs, but my druid is dead now, so I think I’ll wait for the next balance patch and just hope they compensate or undo this.

Chrury.4627:

So I guess my question is: if there was one trait in every tier that was the best, no argument, for condi, why would you run anything else? If you made sharpened edges baseline, wouldn’t that reduce build diversity?

Well, the the first question is better answered if Skirmishing traits – though solid – had a bit more self-synergy within itself.

Sharpened Edges being made baseline wouldn’t reduce build diversity not one bit. Not to mention, build diversity was drastically reduced with the new trait layout back in 2015.

I wouldn’t mind if they merged Sharpened Edges with Hidden Barbs. There would still be build diversity because not everyone picking Skirmishing is there for the conditons. And that’s the point I hate about this specific discussion:

People tend to forget – or simply choose to neglect – that Skirmishing is not a pure condi traitline. Pushing ANet to make the Minors condition exclusive will do the traitline more harm than good and I personally hope this will never happen.

Xaylin.1860:

Pushing ANet to make the Minors condition exclusive will do the traitline more harm than good and I personally hope this will never happen.

+1, I agree with that. The minor traits, that you cannot choose, should be general in nature, like they are today.

Chokolata.1870:

My biggest gripe is that it conflicts with trappers expertise. Those should complement each other not be either/or.

How about hidden barbs merged with trappers expertise?

How about change sharpening edges? You activate sharpening stone when you hit an enemy under 50% life. Would go very well in the wilderness survival line thou instead of skirmishing.

Chokolata.1870:

Hopefully we get a coherent condition build in the near future. As much as I am enjoying condition DPS ranger in PvE, it is simply not possible in PvP. The traits simply do not work well with utilities, and the utilities themselves have no utility. Talking mainly about traps here.

It is very possible. Trapper druid with sage amulet and trapper rune works, and it doesn’t have any need for bleed on crits. I swapped between that one, the standard metabattle one and a remorseless build the entire season, depending on the other team, in diamond and legendary. Unblockable traps traited and with the benefits from the trapper rune are pretty strong against certain builds.

The crit based condi build on the other hand took quite the hit when they nerfed the healing on druid. It’s squishy.

The biggest problem with skirmishing isn’t the condi traits. It’s Light on Your Feet, Most Dangerous Game and Strider’s Defense. They’re all lackluster and competing with better options regardless of build.

Lazze.9870:

Chokolata.1870:

Hopefully we get a coherent condition build in the near future. As much as I am enjoying condition DPS ranger in PvE, it is simply not possible in PvP. The traits simply do not work well with utilities, and the utilities themselves have no utility. Talking mainly about traps here.

It is very possible. Trapper druid with sage amulet and trapper rune works, and it doesn’t have any need for bleed on crits. I swapped between that one, the standard metabattle one and a remorseless build the entire season, depending on the other team, in diamond and legendary. Unblockable traps traited and with the benefits from the trapper rune is pretty strong against certain builds.

The crit based condi build however, that one took quite the hit when they nerfed the healing on druid. It’s squishy.

The biggest problem with skirmishing isn’t the condi traits. It’s Light on Your Feet, Most Dangerous Game and Strider’s Defense. They’re all lackluster and competing with better options regardless of build.

Striders defense should give us something like 1 stack of might every time you evade an attack (not an evasive roll), most dangerous game should give less might stacks but beginning at 90%. Light on your feet should give you a stackable buff when you evade an attack that improves condi dmg and duration. The duration of the stack should be reasonably long so you can benefit from it.

InsaneQR.7412:

Striders defense should give us something like 1 stack of might every time you evade an attack (not an evasive roll), most dangerous game should give less might stacks but beginning at 90%. Light on your feet should give you a stackable buff when you evade an attack that improves condi dmg and duration. The duration of the stack should be reasonably long so you can benefit from it.

Eh, I’d rather those traits have more synergy with other traits in Skirmishing. Like I have been suggesting for awhile on those traits:

• Strider’s Defense moved to Grandmaster and changed so we get a buff that lasts 2s whenever we apply vigor to ourselves that makes all weapon skills destroy projectiles. Keep the cooldown reduction and add a 10% damage modifier while wielding a sword to make up for the aftercasts introduced with the new sword animations.
• Most Dangerous Game moved to Master and changed to give 1 stack of Might (5s) every second we have vigor. We can then start having a synergy combo of Primal Reflexes -> Most Dangerous Game -> Strider’s Defense with vigor as a common thread.
• Light On Your Feet changed to simply add +10% condition damage when we have Swiftness. It would be flexible with many condition builds across all modes, and has synergy within Skirmishing with Tail Wind minor and Evasive Shot on shortbow.

If we can have those changes, then Sharpened Edges can stay right where it is, even though its current iteration and spot doesn’t really bother me. I just want better synergy in Skirmishing.

Wondrouswall.7169:

InsaneQR.7412:

Striders defense should give us something like 1 stack of might every time you evade an attack (not an evasive roll), most dangerous game should give less might stacks but beginning at 90%. Light on your feet should give you a stackable buff when you evade an attack that improves condi dmg and duration. The duration of the stack should be reasonably long so you can benefit from it.

Eh, I’d rather those traits have more synergy with other traits in Skirmishing. Like I have been suggesting for awhile on those traits:

• Strider’s Defense moved to Grandmaster and changed so we get a buff that lasts 2s whenever we apply vigor to ourselves that makes all weapon skills destroy projectiles. Keep the cooldown reduction and add a 10% damage modifier while wielding a sword to make up for the aftercasts introduced with the new sword animations.
• Most Dangerous Game moved to Master and changed to give 1 stack of Might (5s) every second we have vigor. We can then start having a synergy combo of Primal Reflexes -> Most Dangerous Game -> Strider’s Defense with vigor as a common thread.
• Light On Your Feet changed to simply add +10% condition damage when we have Swiftness. It would be flexible with many condition builds across all modes, and has synergy within Skirmishing with Tail Wind minor and Evasive Shot on shortbow.

If we can have those changes, then Sharpened Edges can stay right where it is, even though its current iteration and spot doesn’t really bother me. I just want better synergy in Skirmishing.

I like those changes, it would also tie into beastmastery and the traited sun spirit.

Just change it back to 66% where it belongs. At least condi builds would be worth it and make up for the high fragility of condi rangers.

EthanLightheart.9168:

Just change it back to 66% where it belongs. At least condi builds would be worth it and make up for the high fragility of condi rangers.

+1 Trait needs to be changed back to 66%.

“Move the Swiftness into Primal Reflexes, then have “+10% critical hit chance on bleeding foes” as a new adept trait rather than a change to Hunter’s Tactics.”

Or as a passive adept. This would finally make Splitblade usefull for axe/axe power only builds!

guys, the change to sharpened edges was completely unnecessary:

• Anet again took the easy shortsighted road nerfing the skill that was used instead fix the problem that caused it.
  maybe they did it because they are making the new spec condition focused however if the core class is trash the new spec will be trash: or OP or rubbish.

Players went to condi druid simply because raids once you learn the 1-2-3 step they are pretty easy. always the same routine. And druid needs a little heal as possible as it is not a healer but a buffbot in raids.

Sharpened edges should go back to 66%. Ranger doesn’t have access to almost any condition, and this skill was the only one reliable.

I agree this trait and hidden barbs should be merged and moved to GM to have something to compete with quick draw.
Light in your feet should give the bonus at all times.

most dangerous game in it actual form should become a master to with some minor tweaks: health threshold from 75% and 3 stacks of might. Thus you have a real choice between spotter or mdg.

The other traits should focus more in enabling the condition side of the ranger.

Skimirish and Wilderness survival should be trait lines that empower the condi role of the class. Being skirmish more focus into dps than defense and WS the other way around.

anduriell.6280:

I agree this trait and hidden barbs should be merged and moved to GM to have something to compete with quick draw.
Light in your feet should give the bonus at all times.

most dangerous game in it actual form should become a master to with some minor tweaks: health threshold from 75% and 3 stacks of might. Thus you have a real choice between spotter or mdg.

Let’s be real here. Merging Hidden Barbs with Sharpened Edges (new or old) and as a GM trait would do more harm than good. The better alternative was to leave it at 66% and remove the guaranteed bleed on-crit from Companion’s Might as a way to tip the scales.

As for Most Dangerous Game, it has 0 business in a line that has its thematics rooted in evasion, weapon swapping, critical hits, and traps if it has no synergy to offer. It’s best to have it deleted and introduce an entirely new trait.

Even if they do revert the change I wont go back to condi longbow.

They have no idea what they are doing with ranger bleeds as demonstrated by the 4th buff to sharpening stone in 6 months that still hasn’t addressed the base issue of it. The 50% nerf for sharpened edges happened in the same update as the introduction of that abomination bleed reaper.

In spvp there is talk of nerfing sigil of earth and geomancy aswell. There is too strong a threat that some of those changes will spill over into the pve/wvw side of the game.

Wondrouswall.7169:

anduriell.6280:

I agree this trait and hidden barbs should be merged and moved to GM to have something to compete with quick draw.
Light in your feet should give the bonus at all times.

most dangerous game in it actual form should become a master to with some minor tweaks: health threshold from 75% and 3 stacks of might. Thus you have a real choice between spotter or mdg.

Let’s be real here. Merging Hidden Barbs with Sharpened Edges (new or old) and as a GM trait would do more harm than good. The better alternative was to leave it at 66% and remove the guaranteed bleed on-crit from Companion’s Might as a way to tip the scales.

As for Most Dangerous Game, it has 0 business in a line that has its thematics rooted in evasion, weapon swapping, critical hits, and traps if it has no synergy to offer. It’s best to have it deleted and introduce an entirely new trait.

THANK YOU!
I’ve been saying this since the devs transferred this awful trait from Necro, the class it was designed for and on which it was still awful. MDG does not work. It is a bad idea. It has no place in the game.

Get rid.

Heh. It’s off-topic, but I’m surprised most Rangers didn’t even catch the other undesirable during the trait specialiation: Go For The Eyes.

An unwanted and unused Engineer trait in Firearms that was reworked for us, then nerfed because they couldn’t be bothered to move the effect at the end of the F2 activation to prevent an exploit, and slapped on an ICD.

I hope someday, we have traits like GFTE, MDG, and PI changed, then another class gets our current Predator’s Instinct, but renamed and shifted to a GM slot.

• Spotter competing with Hidden Barbs is very good for Ranger build diversity in PvE because it encourages distinction between Druid and condition Ranger builds.
• Sharpened Edges as a minor trait would make the line too condition-focused when right now it’s fairly diverse.
• Sharpened Edges could be merged into the major trait Hidden Barbs to maintain the relationship between Hidden Barbs and Spotter, but enable Rangers to also take Trapper’s Expertise. The replacement for Sharpened Edge’s spot should be something that would be relevant for other builds (possibly power Ranger).
• Picking up Light on your Feet alongside Quick Draw and every other condition-based trait in this line would result in the condition build being overpowered relative to other classes.
• Most Dangerous Game is bad and should be replaced.
• Side Note: Quick Draw is extremely strong and it’s doubtful any GM trait in that line could ever compete with the sheer versatility and strength it offers. About the only thing that might see use would be a 20% damage modifier against foes under 50% HP or something for power builds with already low CDs.

Rising Dusk.2408:

• Side Note: Quick Draw is extremely strong and it’s doubtful any GM trait in that line could ever compete with the sheer versatility and strength it offers. About the only thing that might see use would be a 20% damage modifier against foes under 50% HP or something for power builds with already low CDs.

As much as a trait like that has been suggested before (even by me in the past), it’s no use to now, or ever. For pete’s sake, Predator’s Onslaught was buffed twice already.

I’m sure the devs are cautious to adding more damage modifiers in Ranger core spec while being able to slot Druid. It just makes the hate greater in competitive modes. Just gonna have to wait for such a trait in DPS e-spec that makes power specs worth a kitten .

And even though Quick Draw is one of the strongest traits across all professions, other GMs can be competitive if the synergy is there; and LOYF and MDG have none.

Wondrouswall.7169:

anduriell.6280:

I agree this trait and hidden barbs should be merged and moved to GM to have something to compete with quick draw.
Light in your feet should give the bonus at all times.

most dangerous game in it actual form should become a master to with some minor tweaks: health threshold from 75% and 3 stacks of might. Thus you have a real choice between spotter or mdg.

Let’s be real here. Merging Hidden Barbs with Sharpened Edges (new or old) and as a GM trait would do more harm than good. The better alternative was to leave it at 66% and remove the guaranteed bleed on-crit from Companion’s Might as a way to tip the scales.

As for Most Dangerous Game, it has 0 business in a line that has its thematics rooted in evasion, weapon swapping, critical hits, and traps if it has no synergy to offer. It’s best to have it deleted and introduce an entirely new trait.

although i agree with you about the mdg, that trait makes no sense in the ranger as it doesn’t have immunities or a massive health pool to stay at any % that is not 100 i can’t see why sharpened edges and hidden barbs can’t go together as GM trait to compete with quickdraw.

Wondrouswall i know you like to presume to know how anet do balancing but lets use in this case common sense.

Ranger (not the pet) with this trait would be doing 33% damage on the weakest of all conditions, that also have no means to apply reliably.
Makes no sense give a buff to conditions when the weapons do not apply them. Thus merging SE (with 66% chance on crit) and HB and move it to GM is the right and logical thing to do.
It will break the actual condi build because now the they will have to choose between QD and SE+HB. Which is actually good for shifting the stale meta. Same goes for refined toxin and poison master. Why for those traits is good for merging but not for SE+HB?

And would freed the trait line to put more useful traits there, if the devs put some thought in there.

Mo needs to gather around all the employees and get this game fun again as if the most fun this game can offer is a super mario bros simulation that even hasn’t got anything to with the actual game, kitten is all lost.

anduriell.6280:

-snip-

Merge HB & SE together and swap places with MDG in the GM slot leaves LOYF dead. That’s 2 condition traits, with LOYF being so weak that it’s not able to compete, leaving the Skirmishing GMs like WS GMs Rangers like to complain about with EB & WS.

Adding more traits is fine, but it’s much easier for us to just say to add more when, in reality, Anet takes their sweet time considering suggestions that have to be incredibly low to even get them nodding their heads.

As for Anet balancing, yeah, I do think I know how they do it well enough. You say use common sense in this case, but you and I sure as hell know that using common sense never applies when it comes to Anet balancing. It’s comes down to either low-hanging fruit or knee-jerk reactions.

Wondrouswall.7169:

anduriell.6280:

-snip-

Merge HB & SE together and swap places with MDG in the GM slot leaves LOYF dead. That’s 2 condition traits, with LOYF being so weak that it’s not able to compete, leaving the Skirmishing GMs like WS GMs Rangers like to complain about with EB & WS.

Adding more traits is fine, but it’s much easier for us to just say to add more when, in reality, Anet takes their sweet time considering suggestions that have to be incredibly low to even get them nodding their heads.

As for Anet balancing, yeah, I do think I know how they do it well enough. You say use common sense in this case, but you and I sure as hell know that using common sense never applies when it comes to Anet balancing. It’s comes down to either low-hanging fruit or knee-jerk reactions.

well i agree with you there.

LoyF needs a buff or a rework in any case, that gm is really bad being the only real use to apply piercing to the SB. Right now QD is the only trait you use skirmish for, and that’s bad for diversity and fun. We need the trait line to be stronger in it’s condition oriented role and we need traits to compete with QD.

In any case we don’t do us any favor just crippling ourselves, so i don’t even pretend to understand how the minds from anets balance group works and why they do things they do. So i write the ideas how they come having in mind a general balance with the other classes in game.
If it"s fun they nerf it anyway.