Guild Wars 2

Sebrent.3625:

I somewhat disagree with you jcbroe.

I think the weapons that do their damage from AAs are designed to slowly wear a player down while using the rest of their skills to (1) Stick to their target and/or (2) Avoid their target’s burst.

I think the weapons that don’t just do their damage from AAs are designed to win through landing their burst. It’s two different playstyles.

• Burst vs Burst … need to land my burst and avoid yours.
• Burst vs Sustain … need to keep my sustain up while avoiding your bursts … will likely have to avoid more of your bursts than if I was a burst build.
• Sustain vs Burst … need to land my bursts before you wear me down with your sustain.
• Sustain vs Sustain … need to keep my sustain up on you … disrupting each other’s sustain and/or throwing in little “mini-bursts” will help decide … example: Shortbow vs Shortbow I’ll beat you if I do a better job with my Poison Volley than you do with yours as the Poison will give me the edge.

This is also reflected quite well in the differences between my Power Shatter Mesmer and my On-clone-death Condition Mesmer. With my Power Shatter Mesmer, I can jump in, burst, and jump out and the player feels the pressure because I just tore a chunk out of them. With my On-clone-death Condition Mesmer, I have to stay “stuck in” to keep the pressure on them.

I get what you mean, but I’m not meaning it terms of extremes either. A weapon can still functionally be designed around doing sustained damage without having to solely rely on the autoattack to deal maximum sustained damage. The Shortbow already tries to do this with shortbow 2 because now instead of just bleed application, you would have bleed AND poison on them, which has the potential to be a higher damaging sustain.

As far as I can tell, Ranger is nearly unique in the way certain weapons are designed 100% around achieving maximum damage output solely through autoattacks. At the moment, I can’t really think of any other weapons that this occurs with, except maybe mesmer scepter autoattack on mesmer, but even then, I would imagine that the confusion beam still needs to be worked in to reach the maximum damage potential of the weapon.

But regardless of our differences on the concept, I did list out my list of changes previously in the thread and I don’t feel as if I mentioned anything too extreme or uninteresting lol.

So, why does one use the SB? Yes, that is ignorant on my part because I know I am totally using it wrong Or maybe I should clarify what is the secondary weapon set normally? Or…ideal maybe.

I was using it this evening while flipping camps and I honestly feel I am eating dirt 10 x more than usual all things similar build wise.

Rabid armor, and weapon stat wise.
Axe/torch – sigil of agony/geomancy doom/geomancy (thinking I need to change these)
Celestial accessories
Neck is rabid
Rings are p/t/v/c – not sure why that is
Trapper runes

2 (III)
6 (II,VII, XI)
6 (VI, VII, XI)

Maybe it is the food I am using although I was bouncing between koi and lemongrass. I miss LB’s range – that could also be it. Since it is OP with RF and all

If we are talking about flanking, then we should be talking about extra damage if you hit from the back. You know, like backstab.

It’s really threads like this why nothing will ever change. We have some people talking about WvW, some PvP, some PvE, some say the bow is fine, some want it changed…

So Anet, taking the path of no resistance, will leave it.

For now, I think I’m taking GS over SB, even for a hybrid build. They have very similar functions save for the #2 skill, and GS #3 blows SB #3 out of the water.

Gotejjeken.1267:

If we are talking about flanking, then we should be talking about extra damage if you hit from the back. You know, like backstab.

It’s really threads like this why nothing will ever change. We have some people talking about WvW, some PvP, some PvE, some say the bow is fine, some want it changed…

So Anet, taking the path of no resistance, will leave it.

For now, I think I’m taking GS over SB, even for a hybrid build. They have very similar functions save for the #2 skill, and GS #3 blows SB #3 out of the water.

There is a trait that increases flanking damage. Altho you have to trait for it.

@jcbroe: I like the direction you’re going in, I just wanted to make sure we weren’t trying to turn the Shortbow into how a Condition Engineer works (bursts of condition application). One of the things I truly enjoyed going from my Mesmer to my Ranger was that my Mesmer was all about landing bursts while my Ranger was all about avoiding bursts while I wore them down. It was a nice change of pace.

I do think that at the very least Shortbow #4 (Crippling Shot) should apply more than 1 bleed. That is pathetic. Sure, it makes your pets next three attacks inflict bleeding, but our pets have pathetic condition damage … even if you take the major trait to improve it it simply is not enough.

@Gotejjeken:
The mobility on Swoop is nice; no doubt there. I’m just not very happy with the fact that our “hybrid” Shortbow scales better with power than our “power” Greatsword.

@Crapgame:
The shortbow is about auto-attacking a person to death while keeping up poison on them with #2. Abilities 3, 4, and 5 are all about not getting hit with their burst and mitigating any other key abilities (such as heals).

This used to work better when the Shortbow wasn’t nerfed as it hit faster and had a longer range which gave you more room to maneuver when kiting.

It’s not nearly as good now due to those nerfs, but it is still viable. Just be careful against anyone running retaliation and/or confusion as they can make you hate your shortbow quite quickly.

In my opinion shortbow is perfectly fine.
1. As a condition based weapon there is zero reason to increase power scaling.
2. As for utilities it does offer an evade, interrupt an criplle which is great.
3. The flanking things makes it great. It makes the weapon actual skillful to be successive. Unlike LB…

@The V:
You’re going to have to elaborate on how requiring flanking makes shortbow more of a “skillful” weapon? Flanking my opponent is undone by them simply turning their character. Any opponent that isn’t afk should be facing me the whole time unless there are others in the fight.

If it’s the case that the fight involves multiple people, I fail to see how it takes skill from me for my opponent to be facing someone other than me. The only part of that I have control over is positioning so that when they are facing someone else, they aren’t facing me.

I completely disagree with you about the Longbow not being a “skillful” weapon. A good Ranger knows when and how to make use of their Hunter’s Shot, Point Blank Shot, and Barrage. They also don’t simply press Rapid Fire every time it’s off cooldown. There is a rather large gap at the higher levels of play between a “good” longbow Ranger and a “bad” longbow Ranger.

The V.8759:

In my opinion shortbow is perfectly fine.
1. As a condition based weapon there is zero reason to increase power scaling.
2. As for utilities it does offer an evade, interrupt an criplle which is great.
3. The flanking things makes it great. It makes the weapon actual skillful to be successive. Unlike LB…

1. It is a conditional condition weapon (and before all the changes to the longbow was a better power weapon as well similiar to the necromancer’s previous situation with scepter compared to axe)

2. They nerfed the auto attack mostly because they disliked the autoattack focused play on the weapon, well lets see they design 3(4 if you argue that poison is more of a utility condition than a damage focused one)/5 skill completely utility (and originally a damage lost to boot) that need to be used with some thought instead of just as soon as it recharges and then complain that people just autoattack (if that was the cast the entire game is in need of heavy adjustment)

3. The flank effect could be handled more creatively especially with the general death by a thousand cuts style that they favor for the ranger, the flanking is essential for it perceived use, yet its impact is not nearly as rewarding as the amount of effort require, but that is basically seem to be the core concept for ranger work 3 times as hard/long and you might get the a similar result as if you had chose a profession with better effort/effect rating.

I chose to use the longbow on my ranger when I saw that the shortbow needs to be flanking the opponent to work properly…
Does anyone around remember that Xzibit meme? I heard you like conditions, so I put a condition on the conditions of your condition weapon….

Zenith.7301:

Treeoflife.4031:

I have been on both sides of the ranger SB and the having to attack from the side make sense…and here is why.

The AA is pretty darn rapid as it is now. most people with put earth sigil on SB to maintain that bleed stack. Imagine not needing the sigil due to changing the SB to apply bleed no matter what. That allows you to put an additional on hit or on crit sigil such as frailty and torment layering in more than enough conditions to allow 25 bleed stacks with only AA. The would require 0 skill to play a class that most ppl dislike as is. plus for only 2 trait points you can have bleed on crit…just saying.

The only way i could see them making this change is to cut the bleed duration in half as well as slightly reduce the attack speed. Also…yes classes like SS Warrior can maintain better condition damage but you are at 900 range and they are not. The SB is in a pretty strong spot as is.

Just remember everything in this game is about balance. If they buff something…they will eventually need to nerf something else to make up for it. And you may not like the buff you get as much as you dislike the impending nerf :/

I don’t give a kitten about your range argument, why do rangers have to suffer for the sake of PvP. A warrior can have plenty of uptime on the target and while he does not have 900 range, MELEE ATTACKS CLEAVE 3 TARGETS IN A CONE, WHICH RANGED WEAPONS DO NOT.

I am sick and tired of this game limiting every kitten class into a terrible state just so that pvp people don’t whine about losing duels/skirmishes.

I don’t give a kitten about you not giving a kitten about my ranged argument. Are you saying that SB should apply aoe bleed and not have to be from the back or side? You have a cripple and a stun and utilities to keep ppl at ranger. If you are enough of a noob where you cluster together so a condi warrior is cleaving 3 ppl then you deserve it. SB is a crutch anyways. If you are playing condi AT SD is better than running SB. It gives more support with fire field and more evade opportunities. Im only stating the obvious and JUST BY TURNING ON CAPS I CAN FEEL YOUR ANGER!!!! FEED ME!!

@Bran:
Please explain how you are able to state as a fact that “Shortbow is a condition weapon”. Its ability to apply conditions are quite lackluster compared to other condition weapons in the game. On the other hand, it has a better power coefficient than several of those condition weapons.

It does seem in some areas that our skill ceiling is keeping us down. You can only do so much as a ranger no matter what your skill level … and it can feel suboptimal :-/

@Treeoflife
Torch can be redundant if there is already plenty of burning. Depends on spec, teammates, etc..

Sword has its own issues such as 2/3 of its abilities being defensive and 2/3 of its AA locking you down so your opponent knows they can land whatever they want during those animations. There are also advantages to being at range with a weapon … especially against particular (mostly melee) opponents.

I fail to see how “Shortbow is a crutch”. Please elaborate if you’re going to make such a statement.

The cripple on shortbow is actually quite short. I can kite you a heck of a lot easier with Axe + Dagger given that I can rotate the Chill from Axe and the Cripple from Dagger. It also is more forgiving of errors as it is two separate slows instead of a single one.

I half agree with you about the cleave. If people just run into it, yes, it’s their fault. However, there are plenty of pulls in this game that organized groups make very good use of. They work really well with other CC to allow said cleaves to be fully leveraged.

Please turn off your caps lock and take your meds :-p

@Elendur
The conditions meme made me lol :-)

Is there any other condition weapon in the game that has a condition on how it applies conditions? I can’t think of one off the top of my head.

Heck, the only other positioning dependent attacks I can think of are Thief stealth attacks with MH Dagger and MH Sword.

Sebrent.3625:

@Bran:
Please explain how you are able to state as a fact that “Shortbow is a condition weapon”. Its ability to apply conditions are quite lackluster compared to other condition weapons in the game. On the other hand, it has a better power coefficient than several of those condition weapons.

We are discussing ranger here when has any one its options compared to other profession ever been anything other than lackluster.

The higher coefficient could have been placed there to ease the issue of the flanking requirement though the difference is only 0.05 and the ranged weapons that have it also have additional features (not projectile nature of necromancer scepter and the radius effect of engineer’s pistol. It is more likely the baseline single target nature is the reason for the power scaling.

I’m not seeing from that what qualifies it as “a condition weapon” instead of “a hybrid weapon” or “a power weapon that can apply some conditions”.

the reason i believe SB to be a crutch are…
Ppl will ignore condition SB rangers for a reason…the condition damage is not optimal but the solution is not to make the AA more powerful. Since SB dmage is not optimal…in team fights you sit back while everyone else takes the heat making it easier on yourself but harder for everyone else. ST is harder to play but burn damage can be more effective than bleed. Can take a while to get bleed stacks up where burn is apply and watch em die. If you play ST right it can be way more powerful than SB. That is why i consider SB a crutch. Also thanks for reminding me to take my meds….and dont worry i took with food so im good

Sebrent.3625:

I’m not seeing from that what qualifies it as “a condition weapon” instead of “a hybrid weapon” or “a power weapon that can apply some conditions”.

Then you could basically call all weapons ‘power weapons that can apply some some conditions’. So where do we draw the line at describing weapons, beyond targeting type.

Ranger in general feels underdeveloped and clumsily assembled, stuck in a weird place archetypically between the thief and the warrior and saddled with a mechanic that would have been fine in a game that was 10+ years old not in the action based game that they claim guild wars 2 to be.

Your explanation has practically nothing to do with Shortbow and more to do with players that pick ranged weapons and stay on the periphery of fights.

I fail to see how that explains “how shortbow is a crutch”. In fact, you mention that “people will ignore SB rangers for a reason … the condition damage is not optimal”. That could very well be a counterpoint to your claim that “the shortbow is a crutch”.

I’m horribly confused here by your posts.

What do you think a weapon being “a crutch” means? Generally most of us think of a weapon being “a crutch” as a weapon with a low skill floor but high effectiveness. Going beyond just weapons, the Engineer turret build is “a crutch” build used in sPvP.

As far as Axe/Sword + Torch/Dagger … I prefer to pair Axe with Torch so I can get projectile finishers through that field (prefer that over leaping through it). It also allows me to dance around that bonfire while kiting my opponent. That leaves me with Sword+Dagger for when I need to be defensive for a bit but it has plenty of poison to keep my opponent from recovering too quickly while I’m being defensive.

Ok you are taking this thread off topic…well done. I said its not optimal i never said it was awful. It is an easy weapon to use and survive with but ppl disregard you when using it bc the damage output is not THE most effective. These two facts combined allow you to play an OK version of ranger and that is my opinion. My statements indeed were about SB and not about ranged weapons in general. Power LB rangers are super strong and you will get focused real fastwhen the pew pew commences. So your assumptions about what i meant are very incorrect. Just let it go. I will not be returning to this thread as it is becoming toxic and i can see nothing i say will be met with anything other than resistance. Enjoy your SB thread i’m OUT!!!

Not to derail the topic but being a new ranger it was my assumption that short bows are for conditions or bleeds, and to spin them up rather quickly. Compared to long bows that have range and do more damage.

Mind you I was not playing the ranger when SBs had more range. I was on my Guardian at the time so ignorance is bliss And has I have stated a few times, I have no idea what the hell I’m doing when I equip a short bow –

Crapgame.6519:

Not to derail the topic but being a new ranger it was my assumption that short bows are for conditions or bleeds, and to spin them up rather quickly. Compared to long bows that have range and do more damage.

Mind you I was not playing the ranger when SBs had more range. I was on my Guardian at the time so ignorance is bliss And has I have stated a few times, I have no idea what the hell I’m doing when I equip a short bow –

At one point I think Anet agreed, SB was supposed to be a condition / soft CC weapon.

Then people complained about the rate of fire, so ‘animation fix’. Then people complained about longbow being terrible (oh the irony with today’s topics), so they nerfed the range. With those nerfs the shortbow became a ‘skirmishing weapon’. They then left it to rot as its HoT time and staff, etc. etc.

Given that the longbow is in a nice place at the moment, it should be time to restore the shortbow to its former glory thus making it a viable alternative to the longbow for ranged encounters.

Just a question to all folks here,

Why do people say SB otudamages GS? how does that happen?

I’ve never run the numbers, nor made that statement, but I can only guess it could have been possible, before the ‘animation fix’ nerf due to rate of fire. Would have to be single targer at that point. Not to get too far off topic, but before the greatsword chain hits are not really worth noting (see business a usual for ranger) with maul being there for burst.

SB mathematically scales a bit better with power on the autos than GS. It in no way out damages it in cleave situations or if you factor in Maul.

Gotejjeken.1267:

SB mathematically scales a bit better with power on the autos than GS. It in no way out damages it in cleave situations or if you factor in Maul.

Scales better? How? Tried slotting zerk amy. Sb aa does 205 with 1.8k power while gs aa does 405 with the same stats.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just a question to all folks here,

Why do people say SB otudamages GS? how does that happen?

It doesn’t. Even comparing only auto attacks, GS comes out ahead in terms of direct DPS but only by a miniscule margin. The previous calcs in this thread added the tooltip damage, which is incorrect. Obviously bleeds tip DPS in favor of the shortbow, but like all other greatswords in the game, ranger GS is absolutely about using skills 2-5.

Using average weapon damage values from the wiki and holding power and opponent’s armor constant, here are the calcs for coefficients/second * average weapon strength:

Shortbow:
(0.4/0.54)1,000 = 740.74

GS Chain:
((0.55+0.55+0.65)/2.56)1,100 = 751.95

Thus, the full dps calc for a shortbow auto is (740.74*power)/opponent’s armor and for GS auto is (751.95*power)/opponent’s armor.

StickerHappy.8052:

Gotejjeken.1267:

SB mathematically scales a bit better with power on the autos than GS. It in no way out damages it in cleave situations or if you factor in Maul.

Scales better? How? Tried slotting zerk amy. Sb aa does 205 with 1.8k power while gs aa does 405 with the same stats.

Don’t forgot to factor in attack speed^^ Big numbers mean nothing if you only do them at a fraction of the speed.

@Malhavoc:
Well, dang. You’re right. (-1 pt for me being lazy and just using the tooltips):

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage
• Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Though to be completely accurate, we should take the average of the weapon’s minimum and maximum strength since each weapon is variable.

So let’s redo these numbers (that I previously screwed up) with the weapon strengths from sPvP (instead of the constant given in the tooltip).

Note: I’m at work right now, so I’m grabbing the weapon strengths from http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/. If there is a better source, please let me know.

Sword — Full AA Chain : 1,005.42 * Power / Armor
Longbow — Long Range Shot (1,000+) : 900 * Power / Armor
Longbow — Long Range Shot (500 – 1,000) : 800 * Power / Armor
Longbow — Long Range Shot (0 – 500) : 700 * Power / Armor
Greatsword — Full AA Chain : 716.06 * Power / Armor
Shortbow — Crossfire : 705.19 * Power / Armor
Axe — Ricochet: 476.25 * Power / Armor

If someone could direct me to where I could find the after-cast time for the various weapon skills 2 – 5 for each weapon, then I could calculate the actual DPS from using each such skill and we could compare what increases/decreases DPS … though I think we already intuitively understand that … just not by exactly how much.

@Malhavoc (again):
Thanks for catching that.

Follow-up:
So Greatsword (power weapon) scales up only (10.87 * Power / Armor) better than Shortbow and that requires landing all three attacks of the AA Chain in PvP.

This may very well explain why I’m still feeling better DPSing a player with Shortbow than with Greatsword as it is much easier (and safer) to get that Shortbow DPS on a target than it is to get the full Greatsword AA chain on them.

@Sebrent: NP, man. I actually did use the average damage values, just for ascended weapons. No matter, it looks like the difference between the two is roughly the same for ascended v. exotic. Thanks for providing updated values for the other weapons! Idk whether to laugh or cry, looking at the axe.

Also, that’s a salient point about having to land all three parts of the GS chain. Obviously, there are many times when doing that is either not possible or not the right course of action.

Even if the SB autos scale equally to GS autos, it doesn’t matter if they pop reflection or stealth. In that case only the GS can still be effective.

Which is why I am so torn on SB vs. GS right now. SB is great high pressure and allows kiting, however it is just countered too hard by stealth…and stealth is EVERYWHERE right now. Thieves can stealth (obviously), trap rangers stealth, mesmer’s stealth…

You can just as easily argue that GS can be easily kited whereas SB can’t be. Obviously in a real situation there are many more factors and every fight will have a different “actual” DPS value for each weapon.. All we can reall compare on the forums is their theoritical values.

In regards to the Axe… Yeah that’s why I dislike it so much. Obviously it has the bouncing, which takes it’s damage waaaay up… but I just find it too situational. Against a Mesmer the bounces are amazing… against a Ranger they can be great to, if they aren’t using a ranged pet… but for anything else the only pressure it has is the #2, which bugs me.

In regards to GS, if they kite you always have swoop as a gap closer. If that fails you have counter attack (works great against LB rangers), and it also works if they stealth (backstab).

For me, SB suffers in these areas. If a thief stealths or LB ranger starts a RF chain, I am forced to switch off to one of the swords for the evades. Since I’m condition heavy that sword is going to be OH sword, and then we have the whole issue of using hornet sting / monarch leap to go in the correct direction in a high pressure situation.

I just felt like adding to this brilliant discussion:

The LB seems to be where they want it, so yeah, it’s definitely time to show the SB some love. They originally nerfed it because nobody was using the LB, but now that that’s fixed they might wanna revert it back to it’s original form and see how that goes.

I was testing the “flanking” on the Shortbow again last night (been over a year … figured I should).

My friend stood on the skull at graveyard and faced the mouth part of the skull.

I stood about 600 range from her. There is a bit of a “worn down path” that extends from that mouth. I noticed that if I wasn’t on that path, just toed off of it, I was “flanking” enough to get the shortbow bleed.

This seems like a an improvement compared to what I remember from last time I tested it. I was largely still in front of her when I was getting the bleeds. It evoked a “really?!” from her in TS :-p

If someone else would like to record this, please do.

If I stop being lazy and put some recording software on my computer, I’ll do it eventually.

Another thing I’m curious about is on-hit and on-crit sigils. I think I’ll be making a spreadsheet for those next to compare their usage with various Ranger weapons. Shortbow can be mean with traited on-crit bleed and on-crit bleed sigils (or other effects).

It’s always been fairly generous with the flanking requirement.

Was bored so I went tried it… that’s me standing on the exact point where I start putting on bleeds.

So yeah, you are still more infront of them than you are to the side when the bleeds kick in.

Thank you, Cufufalating :-)

I just took the DPS numbers from Power equal to Toughness in the Spreadsheet I created for Ranger weapons:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuDz1x50hIhREdfWni7Eim9MbG8cDRkIuuIsioXdruc/edit?usp=sharing

I wanted to know how many bleeds I needed to maintain to equal the damage of the other weapons. Since I couldn’t increase the direct damage by having more power than my target’s toughness, I kept the condition damage at 0, so used only the base bleeding damage.

Bleeding = (0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80

Crossfire = 705.56

Greatsword AA = 751.95
Difference = 46.39
# of Bleeds = 46.39 / 42.5 = 1.09 stacks of bleeding

Long Range Shot (1,000+) = 945
Difference = 239.44
# of Bleeds = 239.44 / 42.5 = 5.63 stacks of bleeding

Sword AA = 1005.42
Difference = 299.86
# of Bleeds = 299.86 / 42.5 = 7.06 stacks of bleeding

Added a new tab to the spreadsheet I created for Ranger Weapon Skills Damage:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuDz1x50hIhREdfWni7Eim9MbG8cDRkIuuIsioXdruc/edit?usp=sharing

Now you can compare the number of bleeds needed for Shortbow’s crossfire to match the DPS of another weapon’s auto-attack. (You’ll have to make your own copy of the spreadsheet … I didn’t give you write permissions to it)

Using values from sPvP (no food, etc. and exotic weapons)…

With the Min Power (926) vs Min Toughness (1814) & Zero Condition Damage:

• Crossfire vs Greatsword AA Chain : 0.13
• Crossfire vs Sword AA Chain : 3.6
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (1,000)+ : 2.34
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (500-1,000) : 1.13
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (0-500) : - 0.07
• Crossfire vs Ricochet : - 2.75

With the Min Power (926) vs Max Toughness (3750) & Zero Condition Damage:

• Crossfire vs Greatsword AA Chain : 0.06
• Crossfire vs Sword AA Chain : 1.74
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (1,000)+ : 1.13
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (500-1,000) : 0.55
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (0-500) : - 0.03
• Crossfire vs Ricochet : - 1.33

With the Max Power (2033) vs Min Toughness (1814) & Zero Condition Damage:

• Crossfire vs Greatsword AA Chain : 0.28
• Crossfire vs Sword AA Chain : 7.91
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (1,000)+ : 5.13
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (500-1,000) : 2.49
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (0-500) : - 0.15
• Crossfire vs Ricochet : - 6.05

With the Max Power (2033) vs Max Toughness (3750) & Zero Condition Damage:

• Crossfire vs Greatsword AA Chain : 0.13
• Crossfire vs Sword AA Chain : 3.83
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (1,000)+ : 2.48
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (500-1,000) : 1.2
• Crossfire vs Long Range Shot (0-500) : - 0.07
• Crossfire vs Ricochet : - 2.93

Given that Shortbow can stack one bleed every 0.54 seconds for a maximum of 5 bleeds since the 1st bleed will fall off when you apply the 6th (before +0% duration, bleed on crit, etc.) … this is looking more and more in Shortbow’s favor … and this is with zero condition damage

You really do like looking at numbers.. All interesting stuff, thanks Though not at all surprising to me since, as I said right at the start, I am a huge SB fan. I always knew it was amazing :P

Simple issue, simple solution.

Add SB to the weapons affected by eagle eye.

Indiana.3728:

I just felt like adding to this brilliant discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

Lol, no idea how I missed this originally.

I honestly don’t know what to make of it though Is this for real, a joke, what? Whatever it is, it did make me giggle and who doesn’t need a good chuckle at the end of the day

Dadnir.5038:

Simple issue, simple solution.

Add SB to the weapons affected by eagle eye.

As long as it is 1200 unit range base.

You want a 1500 range SB? It would have to stay at 900 range base and get the extra 300 from EE to make it up to 1200.

You want a 1500 range SB? It would have to stay at 900 range base and get the extra 300 from EE to make it up to 1200.

Exactly!

As long as it is 1200 unit range base.

If every interesting things were “base”, there would be no point in the trait system. Traits are here to give choice between different knid of gameplay. Some are fine and some aren’t but that’s not the question. The point in Eagle eye affecting Shortbow is that you gain a viable range option that is not longbow, nothing more nothing less.

Personally, I’d love to be able to get my Shortbow back to 1,200 range.

That being said, I wouldn’t take that Eagle Eye over Piercing Arrows for PvP … possibly for PvE though … on single-target fights.

Dadnir.5038:

You want a 1500 range SB? It would have to stay at 900 range base and get the extra 300 from EE to make it up to 1200.

Exactly!

As long as it is 1200 unit range base.

If every interesting things were “base”, there would be no point in the trait system. Traits are here to give choice between different knid of gameplay. Some are fine and some aren’t but that’s not the question. The point in Eagle eye affecting Shortbow is that you gain a viable range option that is not longbow, nothing more nothing less.

No.

1200 range WAS standard, there was no reason to take it away and there is no reason to put it back through forcing people into a traitline. You are not helping the situation with a suggestion like that, as it is not a buff in any way shape or form for the SB.

To put it another way, it is a pointless change because if I am taking eagle eye I am taking longbow, because RF, knockback, and invisibility far out weigh the 300 unit range increase.

In fact, even if they did put the 1200 back as base, it wouldn’t be a buff for the weapon. It would be returning it to where it was….and where it was it still needed buffs. What the 300 range increase would do is give more meaning to the #4 and #5 skills…or what they originally had in mind when the weapon was made.

So in short, the range decrease did nothing positive. The LB was still a terrible weapon until the invisibility on hunter’s shot and the RF animation change along with read the wind.

I see no problem with the SB having 900 range base. It just needs to be affected by a trait as well so you can get the 1200 range back. 1500 range on a SB would be stupid and 1200 base is too much. Lore wise, a SB shoots less distance than a LB, IRL too.

To put it another way, it is a pointless change because if I am taking eagle eye I am taking longbow, because RF, knockback, and invisibility far out weigh the 300 unit range increase.

What?