Guild Wars 2

Altho A buff is a buff, it still baffles me why Crossfire the AA was not buffed when it is used 90% of the time.

I just tried SB with 2k power, the physical damage part only crits for 600 (3/5 skills) and only SB#4 dealt 1.2k. Posion volley critts for 300 per hit at point blank range

Anyhow, any of you guys theorycrafted with the changes?

With sage, it might do more damage than a LB in team fights now, if you want to run staff/bow. That actually sounds pretty appealing on paper.

Fluffball.8307:

With sage, it might do more damage than a LB in team fights now, if you want to run staff/bow. That actually sounds pretty appealing on paper.

I still dont feel like Shortbow offers the same reliable pressure or anywhere near the same utility as LB’s Rapid Fire, Hunter’s Shot, or PBS to make it worth considering as a ranged option to pair with Staff.

(Pvp content)

I don’t think the buff on sb is that great, apart of the 2 sec stun/daze. It’s defenitly better than before, but the shortbow isn’t gonna be usefull considering the actual meta. Their is tons of reflect projectiles at the moment and condi cleanse on every classes. And yeah the axe buff is way better in both condi and physical damage and the gameplay is way more fluid than before with the reduced aftercasts on it.

To make the shortbow the true choice as a condi weapon, it would need superspeed on 3, (2 or 3 sec not more) we have way too easy access to swiftness in our traits and skills. #5 skill put something like 2 stacks of confusion on next pet attack.

i dont remember anyone asking for a physical damage buff lol. i think people were thinking more along the lines of, say, complete weapon revamp given how disconnected the set is from the game’s meta.

the SB still does paltry damage (both condi and physical), while still relying on AA SPAM which gets reflected, or causes massive retal or confusion damage. the SB only has one evade that does nothing else. did you guys ask for more swiftness? i dont remember asking for more swiftness given that we almost always had perma swiftness. not to mention unlimited sources of swiftness from your allies.

the SB has no nuke, no mobility, no invuln, no cleanse, no heal. and literally the only good thing going for it is #5, which was always solid. poison builds certainly weren’t viable a while back, and i doubt they are now, so #2 remains average at best. #4 is completely useless, and the one evade from #3 is just symbolic really.

the SB changes are completely disconnected from the reality of what the weapon set needs.

for me, the nail in the coffin of these “long awaited” patch notes is the lack of iteration on the countless other CORE ranger issues. useless GM’s, useless pets, warhorn #4, dagger, OH axe, and so on. literally nobody asked for a ground-targeted #4, yet everyone asked to not be rooted on the #5 and to have the ability do something other than just a reflect. these changes aren’t BAD, but theyre not even close to game-changing. maybe 2017 will be more kind to the core ranger?

mistsim.2748:

literally nobody asked for a ground-targeted #4

I asked for it. xP

Wondrouswall.7169:

mistsim.2748:

literally nobody asked for a ground-targeted #4

I asked for it. xP

well the first thing we asked, or what we’ve been asking for 2 years, is that we lose the root on the #5. i just assumed that was priority. i guess im not sold on OH axe, even though #4 is a bit more interesting now.

you think sword/axe/staff might be interesting on some kind of offensive druid build? is WD actually usable for cleaving the downed? all i know after 3k hours on my ranger is that standing still for more than a split second with enemies around you will get you dunked. i last played in October, are things different now?

It’s nice to see Anet paying attention to weak weapon sets. The damage buffs on #2, and #4 are nice changes, but Shortbow is still far from viable. I’ve considered changes for years now, and I think that the easiest way Anet could make SB more powerful and fun would be to keep the auto the same, but dramatically reduce the CDs on the other skills, so that it looks something like this:

1. 6 second CD
2. 6 second CD
3. 8 second CD
4. 10 second CD

This way Shortbow would become about landing significant pressure based on the #2,4 skills (as well as being good sources of poison and cripple on teamfight targets). And by reducing the CD times on the actives, it becomes far less centered around spamming autos. The #5 skill would be extremely good for getting off lots of well timed interrupts.

Tested numerous times today Running Destroyer SB/GS ranger, damage was there but man, you simply cannot surivive.

Even with 560 fero and 2k power, shortbow was still not doing any significant damage, this is with 560 condition damage as well.

The direct damage buffs are good. SB is supposed to be a hybrid weapon so it made absolutely no sense that hitting all 5 poison volley projectiles barely reached the dmg of a single autoattack. I also think #5 got significantly improved by that.

The main problem is that druid/staff is just too kittening strong compared to core ranger and sb does not fit druid playstyle well since there are no real hybrid damage builds possible. Also pets still being the most of out dmg. I really was surprised they didn’t do a single change to old pets this patch. Do they think it is okay that we basically only have 2 or 3 pets to pick from for PvP?

Dojo.1867:

The main problem is that druid/staff is just too kittening strong compared to core ranger and sb does not fit druid playstyle well since there are no real hybrid damage builds possible.

Didn’t EU run hybrid druids for a long time? I very rarely catch their matches, but I thought sword torch was a big thing over there.

I think there has to be a viable build in this somewhere, even if it’s not something you run in ESL or whatever. I haven’t tried anything so it may just be wishful thinking though. Edit for clarity: Referring to SB, not S/T.

Fluffball.8307:

Dojo.1867:

The main problem is that druid/staff is just too kittening strong compared to core ranger and sb does not fit druid playstyle well since there are no real hybrid damage builds possible.

Didn’t EU run hybrid druids for a long time? I very rarely catch their matches, but I thought sword torch was a big thing over there.

I think there has to be a viable build in this somewhere, even if it’s not something you run in ESL or whatever. I haven’t tried anything so it may just be wishful thinking though.

From EU here, and I played from sapphire to legendary x5 with staff+s/t mercenary’s. Most Druids I saw were playing either staff+lb (as I did at first) or staff+s/d (ESL copypaste, which I think relies too much on pet dmg). The s/t condi hybrid worked for me.

Cele staff + s/t was meta, yep, until they removed cele from pvp. Now the only viable hybrid amulet is mercenary. But shortbow kinda needs sharpened edges/precision for enough pressure, so it would require viper/sinister which means going full glass. And then zerker/lb is simply the better option. For pure condi wanderer or rabid amulet could be an alternative, but both lack vitality wich might be an issue even with some extra thoughness.

I’m sure you can make a hybrid shortbow build work, “just for fun”, but i doubt it will be able to compete with meta builds.

mistsim.2748:

Wondrouswall.7169:

mistsim.2748:

literally nobody asked for a ground-targeted #4

I asked for it. xP

well the first thing we asked, or what we’ve been asking for 2 years, is that we lose the root on the #5. i just assumed that was priority. i guess im not sold on OH axe, even though #4 is a bit more interesting now.

you think sword/axe/staff might be interesting on some kind of offensive druid build? is WD actually usable for cleaving the downed? all i know after 3k hours on my ranger is that standing still for more than a split second with enemies around you will get you dunked. i last played in October, are things different now?

Not really, but the damage on Axe 5 is incredibly good. I’m not even specced for max damage, I just swapped in some zerker weapons onto my zealots armor/celestial trinket WvW setup, and was pulling 3-5k single hits of the axe, and 7-11k Whirling Defenses, using the generic NM/BM/Druid trait split you see on the PvP build.

It’s practicality is probably limited, but the lol factor is there when you melt somebody with a full combo (axe 4, axe 5, petswap while the animation goes into bristleback f2).

Ya I think axe and entangle is going to be a lethal combo in WvW. Axe vuln covers the entangle immob. Not sure it would be the best idea in PvP though. Maybe something with SotW for AF generation. Meh.

The shortbow changes are not sufficient. Especially #4 is disappointing.

jcbroe.4329:

mistsim.2748:

Wondrouswall.7169:

mistsim.2748:

literally nobody asked for a ground-targeted #4

I asked for it. xP

well the first thing we asked, or what we’ve been asking for 2 years, is that we lose the root on the #5. i just assumed that was priority. i guess im not sold on OH axe, even though #4 is a bit more interesting now.

you think sword/axe/staff might be interesting on some kind of offensive druid build? is WD actually usable for cleaving the downed? all i know after 3k hours on my ranger is that standing still for more than a split second with enemies around you will get you dunked. i last played in October, are things different now?

Not really, but the damage on Axe 5 is incredibly good. I’m not even specced for max damage, I just swapped in some zerker weapons onto my zealots armor/celestial trinket WvW setup, and was pulling 3-5k single hits of the axe, and 7-11k Whirling Defenses, using the generic NM/BM/Druid trait split you see on the PvP build.

It’s practicality is probably limited, but the lol factor is there when you melt somebody with a full combo (axe 4, axe 5, petswap while the animation goes into bristleback f2).

i think that was the Aim before Sword+axe didn’t have a kill combo now it does so it can be used with staff or Axe+dagger ect plus WD use to be like a Get out of my circle attack years ago , then as the damage/defences creeped up people could just walk through the WD without concequences.

sticker ^ its also because of poison master set ups , they can survive for a long time through evades and other team support (druid or Tempest ele).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8YnUqA1CitsAerActgBDhyb9XY27OIYraOAm6SvkFFG-TZRFABnXGI9jAAAPAA83fIhLCAA for example.

i see SB builds AA as more of a Hp regen prevention and reduction of Light healing countering Druid staff AA’s ect through large amount of poison application the closer you get the more stacks on a single target turning the Aoe health prevention into a High condi damage burst attack (poison stacks+bleeds and pet KD/leap) if you used a bristleback with Sb i advise you change it to a feline or a wolf somthing with a F2 damage attack just like in my build link above.

reason why i don’t like bristle back in a SB build .

1. provides no means of CC or escape tricks .
2. the bleeds are not worth the cost of CC at the cost of a addition chance for a Kd or escape trick like Smokescale+leap .
3. 2x souces of ranged attacks both countered by one projecile field or mirror (mean you have 0 damage output during any time there are Projecile defences drasticly lowering Damage output and condi application, stiders defence Screws over anyone using 2x ranged attack sources which is also why i don’t get why people undersestimate striders defence in a projecile heavy/projecile defence meta)

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

sticker ^ its also because of poison master set ups , they can survive for a long time through evades and other team support (druid or Tempest ele).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8YnUqA1CitsAerActgBDhyb9XY27OIYraOAm6SvkFFG-TZRFABnXGI9jAAAPAA83fIhLCAA for example.

i see SB builds AA as more of a Hp regen prevention and reduction of Light healing countering Druid staff AA’s ect

here, try this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAVWn0rCFsiVsCOsAUtgFDBjJAM6KdwZ1waa1519CmdlMtDA-TZRAQB7rMAAOCAMc/hOcBAowjAAA

mistsim.2748:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

sticker ^ its also because of poison master set ups , they can survive for a long time through evades and other team support (druid or Tempest ele).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8YnUqA1CitsAerActgBDhyb9XY27OIYraOAm6SvkFFG-TZRFABnXGI9jAAAPAA83fIhLCAA for example.

i see SB builds AA as more of a Hp regen prevention and reduction of Light healing countering Druid staff AA’s ect

here, try this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAVWn0rCFsiVsCOsAUtgFDBjJAM6KdwZ1waa1519CmdlMtDA-TZRAQB7rMAAOCAMc/hOcBAowjAAA

na sorry not enough damage and too many condi clears , you don’t need Druid if you already have plenty of evades , and those glyphs may help with small amount of condi removal but then you are mixing a support role with a condi burst role which don’t mix well as it costs a lot of outgoing damage , the glyphs do help a little with the condi application but the condis are short lived then the lightfield projectile combo means you have to be in SB at short range to gain those projectiles , since a person will be using SB 3 to back out or get away its better to stack on the damage with a poison field then watch them die chasing you and let the person on the team incharge of support to do the condi removals.

from my view not every ranger needs to be a druid , though it is still about team comp and rangers shouldn’t be expected to always roll into support.

the Shortbow changes in my opinion has just improved the shotgun type of combat unload quick> evade never really stay in SB for any longer than you need to even if it means not taking lightfields because to perform Projecile condi clears you need to stop evading leaving you open to all attacks.

Posting this build here (condi burst from traps/shortbow/axe/torch, uses sage’s/Skirm/WS/Druid) to celebrate recent shortbow kills in sPvP. New poison spray is quite deadly once you trait for it (quick draw + poison master => 8k dmg).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnfVjMqQ3KWuCOsAVLWYEM4m6VtryUAucBgmxVtKpVi0PD-TphAQBA4EAwhHAgELDUgDBwGOCA0Y/BA

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

na sorry not enough damage and too many condi clears , you don’t need Druid if you already have plenty of evades , and those glyphs may help with small amount of condi removal but then you are mixing a support role with a condi burst role which don’t mix well as it costs a lot of outgoing damage ,

do you pvp in the current meta? core ranger isnt viable in any way. u need the condi clears to survive, u need staff to get out.

mistsim.2748:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

na sorry not enough damage and too many condi clears , you don’t need Druid if you already have plenty of evades , and those glyphs may help with small amount of condi removal but then you are mixing a support role with a condi burst role which don’t mix well as it costs a lot of outgoing damage ,

do you pvp in the current meta? core ranger isnt viable in any way. u need the condi clears to survive, u need staff to get out.

I have been and had started late this season but reached diamond in 4 weeks of on and off ranked pvp , i did use Staff for half of that then swapped to LB+Sword+dagger poison master with druid because i needed the condi clear due to no NM or Wilderness knowledge , the one line was enough condi clear for me using glyphs + LB projecile finishers + quickdraw CC , skirmishor MM /WS/Druid with a tiger generaly the same set up but i’d swap between the poison master set and a power set up using remorseless+wK then change verdent etching for natural stride(meaning using a condi clear vs cripple/chill/immobilise was a waste unless it was a chain immobilse from a other druid i’d just use a muddy terrain or LR>LB3.

i’ve tried all of the current Meta builds over the course of the season before stepping into ranked , and i’ve had nothing but winning streaks since.

you don’t need druid to survive just enough Condi removal and or Application avoidance which is enough provided from one line when its supported by vigour .

right now im running GS , sword+axe MM/BM/druid on the Shout Remorsless/resounding timbre/druid 2-2-3 set up using clerics two glyphs tides and Empowerment/protect me , guard , sotp , heal as one with leadership runes is the build that got me into diamond and kept winning at a 4-1 ratio .

if a player needs Over the top condi clears at every turn , that player is not doing his best to avoid the thing that is applying those condis or evading the correct skills (if you know a foe is a decked out condi player , you should know what skills to avoid and avoiding a mesmer shatter is easy enough while inside a vipers nest or glyph of tides +sword3 or 2 .

i’ve survive plenty of matches with only one line focused on condi clear we certainly have enough healing sustain to out heal short duration condis and only need the condi removals for things like confusion/torment/poison/bleeds the rest are nul and void due to our mobility of evades , the current Staff+gs or Staff + A+T druids are solely focused on power Burst+support or condi burst+support .

there were times when people believed ranger alone and still can survive without druid spec even those builds which use Wilderness knowledge instead of Verdent etching and druid Clairty the 4 survival skills are enough if used correctly against the right condis then using Druid traits for speed/daze/root CC , i just don’t see the point in taking two lines into condi clears unless you are focusing on full support secondary power which is the Staff+gs build, it needs to spec more into condi clear because it kills slower than a Condi bomb spec and a clerics/menders counter is a condi bomb due to its high defence+healing sustain so for that build choice/play style yes its required of that build but not for others.

in the end different builds require different amount of condi clear due to time spent fighting and the overall Sustain of the build , staff+gs menders does require two sets of condi removal option because they are a focus first.

and the SB build i suggested is an attack soak , if they focus you first , you’ll avoid all of the foes damage unless they GANK you 5 to 1 without any help from your team.

keep playing staff gs with randoms is the best you’ll get for Solo Viablility due to its Flexibleness , the SB build is more constranted to getting help from team mates because guess what the roles not support.

what are you even talking about man? attack soak with what, a few evades? you have no invuln and no condi cleanse. the build is ridiculous and you’re completely delusional.

right now there are no viable core ranger builds.

mistsim.2748:

what are you even talking about man? attack soak with what, a few evades? you have no invuln and no condi cleanse. the build is ridiculous and you’re completely delusional.

there is condi cleanse its called Evasive purity with vigour 9its not a full clear or any of the sort but it clears poison the most Damaging condi in the game reason why poison last longer than any other condi burning drops off too fast and confusion applications are easy to dodge/avoid .

its Chain evades(not just a couple of evades then a large window , it chains! over and over it never ends if timed correctly , or am i just too good i don’t call you Delusional or anyone else unless they start spouting Dagger 4 does a lot of phsyical damage so keep it flipping civil and give it a try if you don’t beleive me or you aren’t just good enough.

The only neat thing about SB is proccing Ancient Seeds 5 times on a target with a point blank SB #5 followed by #2 (though you can do the same with axe and the daze glyph or offhand axe). Im sure that will get fixed though, cause every MMO needs a jobber and Anet has chosen Ranger for that.

mistsim.2748:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

na sorry not enough damage and too many condi clears , you don’t need Druid if you already have plenty of evades , and those glyphs may help with small amount of condi removal but then you are mixing a support role with a condi burst role which don’t mix well as it costs a lot of outgoing damage ,

do you pvp in the current meta? core ranger isnt viable in any way. u need the condi clears to survive, u need staff to get out.

I do agree that you need cleanses, I heavily disagree that core ranger isn’t viable. Eura got to legendary using only Core Ranger.

StickerHappy.8052:

I do agree that you need cleanses, I heavily disagree that core ranger isn’t viable. Eura got to legendary using only Core Ranger.

you havent seen the review from wooden potatos i assume. anybody could get to leg just playing enough hours. Also premaids help, and obviously your skill against them.

core ranger is not viable because you are locked in survival for the cleanses. the runes of the trooper only cleanse one condition and are for tanky builds.

the day Anet moves the trait emphatic bond to BM will be a day ro rejoice. And if they improve it to cleanse 1 condi every 3 seconds maybe even push the ranger to have a chance.

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do agree that you need cleanses, I heavily disagree that core ranger isn’t viable. Eura got to legendary using only Core Ranger.

you havent seen the review from wooden potatos i assume. anybody could get to leg just playing enough hours. Also premaids help, and obviously your skill against them.

core ranger is not viable because you are locked in survival for the cleanses. the runes of the trooper only cleanse one condition and are for tanky builds.

the day Anet moves the trait emphatic bond to BM will be a day ro rejoice. And if they improve it to cleanse 1 condi every 3 seconds maybe even push the ranger to have a chance.

E

Even moving it to any other tree will be a great movie. As it stands now, there is no way for you to take poison master (Which again is even a poor GM trait)

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do agree that you need cleanses, I heavily disagree that core ranger isn’t viable. Eura got to legendary using only Core Ranger.

you havent seen the review from wooden potatos i assume. anybody could get to leg just playing enough hours. Also premaids help, and obviously your skill against them.

core ranger is not viable because you are locked in survival for the cleanses. the runes of the trooper only cleanse one condition and are for tanky builds.

the day Anet moves the trait emphatic bond to BM will be a day ro rejoice. And if they improve it to cleanse 1 condi every 3 seconds maybe even push the ranger to have a chance.

Eura is only one person, so it isn’t as though he’s your average player, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t even use Survival and he performed very well.

Core ranger also has more cleansing than Revenant, and Rev is top tier, so it isn’t as though the issue is even survival, it’s impact.

Personally, if I was going to run core ranger:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnUqA1Ci9rAOsActgBMhqX2BIA+boBqY/wXgHvEnnG-TpBFABNcIAY4IAAwDAQ8yAFt/ABXAAA

and if those pets aren’t allowed, swap to double birds and the BM trait to the Taunt.

jcbroe.4329:

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do agree that you need cleanses, I heavily disagree that core ranger isn’t viable. Eura got to legendary using only Core Ranger.

you havent seen the review from wooden potatos i assume. anybody could get to leg just playing enough hours. Also premaids help, and obviously your skill against them.

core ranger is not viable because you are locked in survival for the cleanses. the runes of the trooper only cleanse one condition and are for tanky builds.

the day Anet moves the trait emphatic bond to BM will be a day ro rejoice. And if they improve it to cleanse 1 condi every 3 seconds maybe even push the ranger to have a chance.

Eura is only one person, so it isn’t as though he’s your average player, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t even use Survival and he performed very well.

Core ranger also has more cleansing than Revenant, and Rev is top tier, so it isn’t as though the issue is even survival, it’s impact.

Personally, if I was going to run core ranger:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnUqA1Ci9rAOsActgBMhqX2BIA+boBqY/wXgHvEnnG-TpBFABNcIAY4IAAwDAQ8yAFt/ABXAAA

and if those pets aren’t allowed, swap to double birds and the BM trait to the Taunt.

This looks very strong, but Soldier runes are overkill don’t you think? you have 4 condis per 10 seconds removed plus 1 mass condition removal.

Soldier rune helps keeping the pets alive. Without it, the pets will suffer from high condi pressure.

Edit: I was running mostly this on my non HoT alt account last season.
(If my team had no other condi player i usually swapped the spirit for SnR or a signet, didn’t happen very often though)

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Soldier rune helps keeping the pets alive. Without it, the pets will suffer from high condi pressure.

I thought it was bugged that it never cleansed of allies (since pet is considered an ally)

You can always swap when you see your pet succumbing to conditions.

Soldier rune cleanses the pet, it doesn’t cleanse other allies though.

im just frustrated that the recent updates totally killed any semi-viable condi bunker ranger, with the removal of settler and celestial. trap ranger is ok, but succumbs too quickly to condi spam which is everywhere now. i wanted SB to work, but it just doesnt.

i played the kitten out of druid when HoT came out, and i dont wanna do it again. the fact that core ranger is so bad still is pretty depressing.

mistsim.2748:

im just frustrated that the recent updates totally killed any semi-viable condi bunker ranger, with the removal of settler and celestial. trap ranger is ok, but succumbs too quickly to condi spam which is everywhere now. i wanted SB to work, but it just doesnt.

i played the kitten out of druid when HoT came out, and i dont wanna do it again. the fact that core ranger is so bad still is pretty depressing.

Trap ranger is dead when they removed throwable traps