Guild Wars 2

Hi,
I am wondering if there will be an improvement on shortbows in HoT. It’s like no one uses shortbow anymore. The axe is much more preferred for condi damage due to the nerfing of the shortbow range and rate of fire. There are barely any traits that make the shortbow increase in effectiveness.

In all my time in PvE, WvW, and PvP (this is the only place I’ve seen shortbow users in place), there is literally no one using this weapon. Could we please get improvements to get some shortbow love? Oh, and the cooldowns for some of the skills are atrocious too.

Thanks for reading!

Only improvement to speak of is the shortbow trait “Light on Your Feet.” Though, it does not seem to improve it by much.

SB is pretty great when you build around it. I really hope they don’t move LoYF (or trappers expertise for that matter) to Adept with Sharpened Edges though, that would ruin our condi builds.

I’m hoping it at least goes back to 1200 range. Also a revert on the ‘animation fix’ would be nice.

Off-topic, but what makes axe strong? I haven’t touched that in a while ankitten ot sure how it applies conditions better. Also I heard that poison will be made to stack in intensity, so while we won’t be the only ones, SB#2 will get a buff.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Off-topic, but what makes axe strong? I haven’t touched that in a while ankitten ot sure how it applies conditions better. Also I heard that poison will be made to stack in intensity, so while we won’t be the only ones, SB#2 will get a buff.

Mainhand axe stacks might on it’s auto attack and might increases condition damage. So basically you apply conditions with your first set then switch to axe, then stack might which will make the conditions already on the target start ticking for more and more damage.

Plus Splitblades is a pretty good bleed applier in it’s own right.

Ehecatl.9172:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Off-topic, but what makes axe strong? I haven’t touched that in a while ankitten ot sure how it applies conditions better. Also I heard that poison will be made to stack in intensity, so while we won’t be the only ones, SB#2 will get a buff.

Mainhand axe stacks might on it’s auto attack and might increases condition damage. So basically you apply conditions with your first set then switch to axe, then stack might which will make the conditions already on the target start ticking for more and more damage.

Plus Splitblades is a pretty good bleed applier in it’s own right.

~ Axe is not flank restricted.

~ Dagger or Torch in Offhand

I would LOVE to get a GW2 equivalent to the GW1 Cripshot ranger that would be using the shortbow for range pressure.

The problem is that there are heavy limitations on the shortbow skills which makes pretty difficult its usage as a “build defining” weapon, unlike longbow for DPS rangers. The shortbow is crippled at the moment by :

• 900 range. The ranger can push longbows to 1500 range, they should be able to push shortbows to 1200.
• #1 : I would both nerf the fire rate and make it a 100% bleed application, this would make the weapon so much better in 1v1.
• #2 : poison volley should have been a reliable poison application skill, but is bad from range and OP in close combat. This is counter intuitive for a bow imo.
• #4 : the duration of the cripple is way too short (3s every 12s ?), or the cooldown way too big. Good application of cripples was one of the best defensive tools of rangers in GW1 and that made them really fun to play. Also people were running much less condi removal in GW1 than in actual GW2, so it’s even more unreliable.
• #5 : the CD is really high. You could spam 2 different interrupt skills in GW1, and the ennemy skill would still both consume mana and go full reload. The GW2 interrupts are a joke compared to what you could do in GW1.

I do think the shortbow needs to be reworked a bit to be that specific ranged pressure weapon it should have been. The ideas are there, but it is too limitated.

Could just run both Axe/Torch and SB, its a great combo.

Edit:
The fast fire rate on the SB is the best part about the AA! The flanking requirement is not all that bad, check the actual angle you need, its under 45 degrees.

Cripshot was a fun build to play and we HAD it in GW2, but they changed Intimidation Training! GW2 CripShot

Levetty.1279:

I’m hoping it at least goes back to 1200 range.

This. Enough of this 900-range kitten. :-/

Thanks for the build.

The fast fire rate on the SB is the best part about the AA! The flanking requirement is not all that bad, check the actual angle you need, its under 45 degrees.

I keep thinking the flanking part is terrible though. 1v1 against a good player, he will not give you his flank often, condi rangers are slow as kitten.

Use the birds for swiftness and strafe side to side, you will be surprised how many bleeds you get. Plus, Sharpened Edges has no ICD so you can get a bleed every shot from that, the Air sigil does great damage because of the fast fire rate, it goes off on CD all the time and more bleeds from the earth sigil too. You have SoTH on that build too, so 25% run speed and 50% up time of swiftness.

Add aoe like on the harpoon. Remove the angle restrictions for the bleed.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Use the birds for swiftness and strafe side to side, you will be surprised how many bleeds you get. Plus, Sharpened Edges has no ICD so you can get a bleed every shot from that, the Air sigil does great damage because of the fast fire rate, it goes off on CD all the time and more bleeds from the earth sigil too. You have SoTH on that build too, so 25% run speed and 50% up time of swiftness.

I might be wrong here but …
… Why would I want an Air Sigil on mostly condi-based weapon?

I always use Sigil of the Earth. 60% chance on crit to apply a bleed. I rarely go high power values with Shortbow equipped.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Use the birds for swiftness and strafe side to side, you will be surprised how many bleeds you get. Plus, Sharpened Edges has no ICD so you can get a bleed every shot from that, the Air sigil does great damage because of the fast fire rate, it goes off on CD all the time and more bleeds from the earth sigil too. You have SoTH on that build too, so 25% run speed and 50% up time of swiftness.

I might be wrong here but …
… Why would I want an Air Sigil on mostly condi-based weapon?

I always use Sigil of the Earth. 60% chance on crit to apply a bleed. I rarely go high power values with Shortbow equipped.

With a celestial setup air sigil will almost certainly be the best damage sigil for shortbow and celestial works well with it’s inherent mix of physical and condition damage.

raubvogel.5071:

Add aoe like on the harpoon. Remove the angle restrictions for the bleed.

Then it would be too similar to the pistol on engineer. It would be interesting to see it changed to a chain skill set perhaps.
1 Crossfire (as is)
-(Insert Name here) as shot with torment could be nice maybe 1 stack normal 2 stacks flanking
-Crippling Shot (as the current 4th skill)
2 Poison Volley (either as is or converted to a ground target not really sure if that is needed)
3 Quick Shot (as is)
4 Ensnaring Shot causing immoblized condition maybe add deals additional damage to bleeding targets
5 Concussion Shot (as is)

What he said. The Air sigil does good damage even with base power, it has a 1.1 power co-efficient and recharges in 3s. Earth does 1 stack for 5s every 2s. So, over 6s, you can get two airs of 3 stacks of bleed. The two lightning strikes will do 2037 damage with base power and the 3 stacks of bleed with 1000 condi damage will do about 1500.

I like to use Earth and Air on SB to cover both bases, the SB is very hybrid and does best with some power too. This makes it less prone to counter (imo), ie cleanses for Conditions and Protection/Toughness for power. If you were to run Celestial ammy and Mad King runes, you would have about 1500 power, and the two air procs would do 3385 dmg, that is a LOT of extra bleed ticks (about 30 ticks, or 5 stacks for 6 seconds, with the maximum condition damage (1400) in sPvP).

Put SB with Air/Earth in front of some Sinister armor and celestial trinkets and it is crazy good in WvW.

What Heimskarl said. SB is great because it’s so hard to counter. It’s ranged, making it hard to kite away from, it does decent condition and direct damage making it hard for any one build to shrug it off, and it is AA dependant meaning it can’t be countered with a well timed evade / block / reflect (like Axe, GS and LB can be), and it’s condition damage is done through short-duration fast-application meaning it’s not really even effected by cleanses.

It’s the ultimate damage over time weapon.

Levetty.1279:

I’m hoping it at least goes back to 1200 range. Also a revert on the ‘animation fix’ would be nice.

then it wouldn’t be a shortbow. the animation fix was a fix. so none of this gonna happen.

SB on its own will not work and does not work because you cant just stack one condi type on someone and expect them to die. bleeds get cleansed if applied on their own, or with 1 or two other condis. im thinking SB will work well either with traps or with a poison stacking build.

Light On Your Feet is a pretty significant buff though. piercing arrows on SB will increase condi application (especially if it works with poison volley), and reduced CD will give us more dazes and evades. SB will synergize with a/d beautifully, especially if you go 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and traited traps, and pets that hit like a truck. either rabid or settlers stats.

Cufufalating.8479:

What Heimskarl said. SB is great because it’s so hard to counter. It’s ranged, making it hard to kite away from, it does decent condition and direct damage making it hard for any one build to shrug it off, and it is AA dependant meaning it can’t be countered with a well timed evade / block / reflect (like Axe, GS and LB can be), and it’s condition damage is done through short-duration fast-application meaning it’s not really even effected by cleanses.
.

im afraid it doesn’t work this way in practice. SB is useless right now because a/d s/t combo does so much more damage and gives a lot more survivability. also, you can generate different condis making cleansing more difficult. SB is too reliant on spamming bleeds and AA, which is why it doesn’t work. and also, kiting isn’t really possible in this game, which is a good thing. every build has a multitude of ranged attacks and gap closers

as I said, with the upcoming poison stacking buff, Poison Volley will be extremely powerful which may bring SB back into the game.

They mostly change the range on it just to make longbow appear better by comparison so other than the thieves would complain there isn’t a particular reason not to as longbow is defaulting to 1500 range.

mistsim.2748:

the animation fix was a fix.

Still beleiving the animation fix line after they admitted it was a nerf.

mistsim.2748:

Light On Your Feet is a pretty significant buff though. piercing arrows on SB will increase condi application (especially if it works with poison volley), and reduced CD will give us more dazes and evades. SB will synergize with a/d beautifully, especially if you go 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and traited traps, and pets that hit like a truck. either rabid or settlers stats.

I’m pretty sure poison volley already pierces.

Even after the patch I still see it being power ranger (LB/GS) and survival / condi ranger (S/T + A/D). That is, I do not see SB factoring in, even though I personally like the weapon. It’s just too easy to counter (reflect, confusion, etc.), has no gap closer or get away, and the chasedown skills (#4 and #5) are negated by blocks and invulns.

Gotejjeken.1267:

mistsim.2748:

Light On Your Feet is a pretty significant buff though. piercing arrows on SB will increase condi application (especially if it works with poison volley), and reduced CD will give us more dazes and evades. SB will synergize with a/d beautifully, especially if you go 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and traited traps, and pets that hit like a truck. either rabid or settlers stats.

I’m pretty sure poison volley already pierces.

Even after the patch I still see it being power ranger (LB/GS) and survival / condi ranger (S/T + A/D). That is, I do not see SB factoring in, even though I personally like the weapon. It’s just too easy to counter (reflect, confusion, etc.), has no gap closer or get away, and the chasedown skills (#4 and #5) are negated by blocks and invulns.

it doesn’t pierce without piercing arrows, which you never pick up on any SB condi build. Light On Your Feet will give it to us in the skirmishing line.

A single trait that improves damage, condition duration, and cooldowns while also giving the shortbow piercing arrows. There is your shortbow improvement for HoT.

What happens from there is yet to be seen. I’ve shown the math comparing Shortbow to other similar abilities of other classes and its condition damage even when flanking is subpar compared to the others … though it could have a better power coefficient … haven’t full investigated that.

Personally, I hope I can take traps and shortbow in the same build as I’ve often enjoyed having both. I’d be aggravated if both were Master traits in Skirmishing.

mistsim.2748:

Gotejjeken.1267:

mistsim.2748:

Light On Your Feet is a pretty significant buff though. piercing arrows on SB will increase condi application (especially if it works with poison volley), and reduced CD will give us more dazes and evades. SB will synergize with a/d beautifully, especially if you go 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and traited traps, and pets that hit like a truck. either rabid or settlers stats.

I’m pretty sure poison volley already pierces.

Even after the patch I still see it being power ranger (LB/GS) and survival / condi ranger (S/T + A/D). That is, I do not see SB factoring in, even though I personally like the weapon. It’s just too easy to counter (reflect, confusion, etc.), has no gap closer or get away, and the chasedown skills (#4 and #5) are negated by blocks and invulns.

it doesn’t pierce without piercing arrows, which you never pick up on any SB condi build. Light On Your Feet will give it to us in the skirmishing line.

No, it always pierces:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Volley

Just poison volley though, not the actual auto-attack arrows.

oh well that’s great. poison volley will be interesting with stacking poison

mistsim.2748:

Gotejjeken.1267:

mistsim.2748:

Light On Your Feet is a pretty significant buff though. piercing arrows on SB will increase condi application (especially if it works with poison volley), and reduced CD will give us more dazes and evades. SB will synergize with a/d beautifully, especially if you go 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and traited traps, and pets that hit like a truck. either rabid or settlers stats.

I’m pretty sure poison volley already pierces.

Even after the patch I still see it being power ranger (LB/GS) and survival / condi ranger (S/T + A/D). That is, I do not see SB factoring in, even though I personally like the weapon. It’s just too easy to counter (reflect, confusion, etc.), has no gap closer or get away, and the chasedown skills (#4 and #5) are negated by blocks and invulns.

it doesn’t pierce without piercing arrows, which you never pick up on any SB condi build. Light On Your Feet will give it to us in the skirmishing line.

Poison Volley pierces and has always done so.

I’d just be happy with Short Bow being added to Read the Wind….

It has its own trait, Light on Your Feet… And it’s in the skirmishing line, a good place for a SB trait.

I hope some changes make it to HoT. I love the shortbow, but all it’s gotten are nerfs.

The reason people don’t use shortbow anymore has nothing to do with any of the changes that were made to the range/rate of fire in the past.

In fact, the shortbow was favored heavily in the last ranger prevalent PvP metagame (aka the spirit build).

The reason why it isn’t seen right now is mostly because pure condition builds have been hardcountered out of the meta by cleansing builds (shoutbow warrior in particular) as well as the fact that shortbows damage is dealt in the form of pure sustain, which means that if you are optimizing, you either have to pair it with another damage set that can provide some sort of “burst” to decrease the time frame it takes to deal damage and kill somebody (like Axe) or just reroll entirely because any other classes meta builds, as far optimization is concerned, are just flat out better, higher performance, high success rate builds.

Besides that clarification, however, yes, shortbow needs some sort of design improvement updates or something, because honestly, shortbow seems like it is one of those weapons that is still in alpha/beta, and never really got the finishing touches/love that other weaponsets have received over time. It’s a basic, bland, “1 to win” weapon that needs to simultaneously be made more interesting to use in combat and more effective.

That’s crazy talk, jcbroe! It’s not like the game was releated before Rangers had all their utilities … oh wait :-p

I think SB will be very, very strong with the upcoming buff to traps, or even without traps strong on its own in some kind of poison stacking build. in fact, I think the new SB will be all about hitting that Poison Volley shotgun to stack 4-5x poison, and less about the AA. also if combined with quickdraw, u could chain evades or even dazes. it will be quite survivable.

im thinking SB/s/t, or SB/a/d with a source of burning. as jc said, the major disadvantage of SB is that it generates mostly one condition only – bleeds. if combined with others to generate multiple condis and mask the bleeds preventing cleansing, it could be very strong. 0/6/6/0/6 with Quickdraw or Poison Master, and hard-hitting pets will be money. and who knows…maybe even spirits will be interesting.

Aye, I’m waiting to see traps and spirits.

If spirits are still procs, but finally worth taking … shortbow will likely be the better ranged weapon with them due to its faster attack speed.

I’ve had the same thought about poison volley. That with Poison Mastery could be even meaner

I still am holding out that they’ll remove the darn condition (flanking) from the condition application of our shortbow. It’s a small angle, but still aggravating.

The question is, is poison stacking in intensity really a good thing? It’s a terrible condition for damage, and the only reason to use it is for the -66% heal factor. So long duration poison is good because it forces a clear or a really weak heal.

I mean, burning stacking in intensity is going to get ridiculous IMO. It already does a ton of damage, and does not benefit from longer duration.

But poison? I really don’t think anyone is going to be saying ‘oh man, I got killed by poison!’.

I just have a pipe dream of preparations coming back in some form and SB being the weapon to use them.

but poison stacking in intensity is what’s gonna make it deadly. 5 stacks of poison could hurt for as much as, say, 10 stacks of bleeds. or however they decide to do the math. I think with this stacking change, they are trying to bring poison in line with the other condis. also, heal factor will remain unchanged according to Peters.

Yeah if they scale it right then it could be interesting. As we do have a lot of ways to apply poison, could get 10+ stacks from volley, poison spider F2 for 3, swap pet / poison master for 2 more, swap to something like S/D with the #4 skill for another. That leaves out poison trap or any other way to apply it.

Celestial SB-S/T with HS, Flame Trap, Viper’s Nest, SoR, Entangle, Trappers Expertise, Poison Master and Flame Legion/Balthazar runes will be pretty great imo.

Currently:

• Bleeding = 42.5 + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per second per stack
• Poison = 84 + (0.1 * Condition Damage) per second

So if they kept that it would make poison drastically stronger than bleeding.

They have alluded to the fact that they will be making changes to the damage done by burning/poison since they will be stacking … so I expect the poison to be dropped a bit.

I fully understand the concern about using bleeds to cover an opponent’s heals, but I’m not that concerned with it as a Ranger given that we are very good at re-application of Poison … and with conditions, even now with stacking duration, re-application is king.