Guild Wars 2

So, shortbow has always been my favorite weapon for ranger, but right now it’s kinda forgotten. Really wish anet would give it some love, as I love the mid to close playstyle (that’s why I player scepter ele anway), but right now, I have no idea how to build and play. For condi, your bleeding is pretty meh, since you need to stand behind the target and a single condition can be cleansed easily. Poison does more damage, but it is very unreliable. I have seen power shortbow ranger vids before, but all of those were before the ferocity introduction. Do note that I want to take staff as offhand, since staff is just too good not to take, borderline op compared to other weapon sets ranger has. Any tips?

In my experience shortbow is bad for wvw, the condition pressure is really low and the phisical damage takes you nowhere. Is really difficult to kill anything with it.
The flying stick aka staff is really bad as damage output also. So you need a weapon to make some damage so my advise is LB and go for power.

I like the fast pace from the shortbow but that weapon right now is really meh.

Pretty much the only time I see SB used in WvW is on a trapper build, shooting through the flame trap or bonfire to increase burning. With a decent crit chance, SB procs a lot of bleeding as well between sharpened edges and sigil of earth.

1v1, spike trap, entangle, and stealth help you get behind your target as well.

^^ Fluff is correct. Not sure about others but pre-HoT I used it a lot with my trapper set. SB, Axe, Torch. Worked well. Not great in the larger battles but solo, duo for scouting, flipping camps, or NPC’s it is good. Well, used to be good.

HoT I’ve tried it a few times with conditions or bleeds. Due to the power creep I prefer more range and damage that the LB can provide.

Fluffball.8307:

Pretty much the only time I see SB used in WvW is on a trapper build, shooting through the flame trap or bonfire to increase burning. With a decent crit chance, SB procs a lot of bleeding as well between sharpened edges and sigil of earth.

1v1, spike trap, entangle, and stealth help you get behind your target as well.

For procing bleeds through sharpened edges and sigil of earth, the staff rivals sb lol.

SB influences in PvP is pretty bad. With so many reflects/blocks/immune going on, it’s even harder to make SB work.

As for WvW tagging ? Just do Quick Draw LB/LB Barrage. As for roaming, condition build around SB should do fine.

anduriell.6280:

The flying stick aka staff is really bad as damage output also.

Staff damage competes with Shortbow, it’s how bad SB is. Solar Beam is even more reliable since it’s an aiming beam (not a projectile) with 1200 range.

I would say Staff is better than Shortbow.

Shortbow really needs a buff, especially in PvP.

SB has several offensive advantages over staff. The high projectile rate is basically a 20% chance to proc burning on auto. It puts out some significant poison. With positioning, the condi damage blows staff totally out of the water. The cripple attack puts more bleed on your bristleback. And finally the daze (which doubles with ancient seeds.) SB is not good, but it’s dramatically more offensive than staff.

It’s hard to compare SB and staff because they don’t have the same purpose.

Fluffball.8307:

SB has several offensive advantages over staff. The high projectile rate is basically a 20% chance to proc burning on auto. It puts out some significant poison. With positioning, the condi damage blows staff totally out of the water. The cripple attack puts more bleed on your bristleback. And finally the daze (which doubles with ancient seeds.) SB is not good, but it’s dramatically more offensive than staff.

It’s hard to compare SB and staff because they don’t have the same purpose.

My point was that SB is so bad its comparable to a non-condi weapon in terms of bleed application.

Staff pulses 3 times per AA (high chance of procing), cannot be reflected, 1200 range. Obviously it has a different role to SB, but they end up with similar bleed proc output when you’re not flanking.

I’m not sure how relevant that is though. Both have high rates of autoattack which is the only thing we’re talking about here, since we’re ignoring that SB does a lot more damage when using all the skills available. Especially since you’re going to flank via your build if you really want to take it.

The daze doesnt double with ancient seeds, you need the marksmanship traitline for it, which is basically kitteneless traitline for shortbow.

Furthermore, the staff is overall a much more valuable weapon than the shortbow in PvP.
- Projectile to heal conversion vs. 1 sec daze (staff better)
- Immobilize + team condi cleanse vs 4sec cripple and a little bleeding (staff better)
- 1200 range dodging leap vs a short dodge and a few secs swiftness (u kiddin me? staff way better)
- Small AoE heal vs AoE spread poison (pretty even, cuz staff #2 is nice for building up AF))
- 1200 ranged beam with 3 procs + ally heal and decent base dmg vs Slower Projectile 900 range with low base dmg, only applying 1 bleed stack while flanking (basically never in an 1v1). (Staff better)

Mainly staff #3 is an irreplacable skill.

Used to be a SB ranger pre HOT. The only thing SB got going on ATM is the synergie with our new might stacking capabilities, making you able to run full celec. Sword/dagger will also work very good in this build as second weapon.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8YjUqQLLWyC2sAXLG4EqeY77Aw/7B4w/XYxb4SkYaA-TVCFABAcBAyT3gfKBr+gAYlyv2eAAUq+jDHBg23fgUABOyC-w

HeadCrowned.6834:

The daze doesnt double with ancient seeds, you need the marksmanship traitline for it, which is basically kitteneless traitline for shortbow.

I didn’t mean the duration doubles, I meant it “doubles as” a proc for ancient seeds. You’re thinking of Moment of Clarity.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Furthermore, the staff is overall a much more valuable weapon than the shortbow in PvP.

I totally agree, but that wasn’t relevant to the conversation about staff putting out equivalent condi damage. Staff puts out atrocious, unacceptable damage on any gear set, but it’s still a good weapon. SB puts out a ton of damage when used properly, and is probably our worst weapon.

Fluffball.8307:

HeadCrowned.6834:

The daze doesnt double with ancient seeds, you need the marksmanship traitline for it, which is basically kitteneless traitline for shortbow.

I didn’t mean the duration doubles, I meant it “doubles as” a proc for ancient seeds. You’re thinking of Moment of Clarity.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Furthermore, the staff is overall a much more valuable weapon than the shortbow in PvP.

I totally agree, but that wasn’t relevant to the conversation about staff putting out equivalent condi damage. Staff puts out atrocious, unacceptable damage on any gear set, but it’s still a good weapon. SB puts out a ton of damage when used properly, and is probably our worst weapon.

I have a good pvp build with staff and marauders amulet + fire/air sigils. It does very good damage. The AA nearly outdamages the LB AA without any amulet, but with precision it might be even better than the LB. Havent tested it yet in comparison with the SB.

I remember the good ole days when LB was so bad they nerfed SB to try to make it look good.

Now SB is garbage. I really, really want to like the weapon. but it is. Even Sharpening stone + Sharpened edges trait with LB makes for a better hybrid playstyle.

I really wonder what the balance devs actually do in the months between buffing/nerfing stuff, twiddle their thumbs as they wait for tooltip text to be translated for all the languages Gw2 ships in?

HeadCrowned.6834:

The AA nearly outdamages the LB AA without any amulet, but with precision it might be even better than the LB. Havent tested it yet in comparison with the SB.

This isn’t fair. People keep comparing SB-from-front and LB autoattack to staff autoattack, and then forgetting that the bows are at least partially offensive weapons and staff is a healing weapon. LB2 does a lot more damage than staff 2, to put it mildly.

You don’t see any DPS comps in PvE running staff.

Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

I’m sorry OP, we aren’t talking about your question, but I think it can help you to make a decision about SB.

Fluffball.8307:

This isn’t fair. People keep comparing SB-from-front and LB autoattack to staff autoattack, and then forgetting that the bows are at least partially offensive weapons and staff is a healing weapon. LB2 does a lot more damage than staff 2, to put it mildly.

Staff for a ’’healing’’ weapon is better than SB, an offensive weapon. LB is expected to do more damage, it’s our power weapon. At long range LB is king, but at some point Staff is better than LB (AA only) if the range is closer.

It makes Staff more flexible.

Fluffball.8307:

You don’t see any DPS comps in PvE running staff.

You don’t see them use SB or LB either.

Fluffball.8307:

Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

Maybe you should. The staff hit 3 times for 1.35 seconds, which makes one hit every 0.45 seconds . It’s not the total damage, it’s each pulse damage.

The SB do ONE damage in 0.54 seconds. SB hits per sec is slower. Also, take in consideration the projectile speed and it has to land. Solar Beam needs no projectile speed (instant) and will still hit the target if it strafes or moves.

SB has no variation of damage in its other skills (Poison Volley is a little bit higher if you manage to hit someone with the 5 arrows, which means you’re in melee range). SB needs Light on your Feet to pierce with a pitiful damage boost after dodge.

For theorycrafting sake, double staff gives a more reliable daze (AoE daze. Primal Echoes, 8 secs then use Ancient Seeds proc) than projectile Concussion Shot (traited 20secs/25 secs) from the SB.

In summary, SB needs serious rework. You can say it’s a condition or hybrid weapon, but it is not doing a good job at it. I really want to make SB viable, I even have The Dreamer, but it’s just not good enough right now.

Krispera.5087:

Staff for a ’’healing’’ weapon is better than SB, an offensive weapon.

We’re saying the same thing. Staff is a better weapon but it’s dishonest to suggest you can max your staff damage higher than SB. They simply can’t be compared like that.

Krispera.5087:

You don’t see them use SB or LB either.

It’s been a subject of esoteric debate, but LB is either part of our highest PvE damge builds or one of the highest.

Fluffball.8307:

…Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

Other (non-condi) ranged weapon auto attacks that are lower than druid staff (0.66/s dmg coefficient) are:

ranger axe AA (0.5/s)
guardian staff AA (0.6/s)
thief shortbow AA (0.58/s)
warrior longbow AA (0.55/s)
warrior rifle AA (0.63/s)
necromancer staff AA (0.47/s)

Plus a bunch of condi weapons like mesmer scepter, mesmer staff, engineer pistol, thief pistol, etc.

Ranger shortbow is 0.74/s for comparison, similar to ranger longbow (0.7-0.9/s), necro axe (0.81/s), engi rifle (0.77/s), revenant hammer (0.76/s), etc. So, like Fluffball was saying, ranger shortbow dps > staff dps, even without any added conditions.

Anyways, I agree that shortbow needs some love. How would you guys fix it? Personally I’d like SB3 to give 3s of superspeed, SB4 to immobilize instead of cripple, and somehow SB2 needs more oomf. A fun idea I thought of last night was to make the shortbow GM trait allow shortbow projectiles to act as finishers through enemy fields…haha.

Salamander.2504:

Fluffball.8307:

…Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

Other (non-condi) ranged weapon auto attacks that are lower than druid staff (0.66/s dmg coefficient) are:

ranger axe AA (0.5/s)
guardian staff AA (0.6/s)
thief shortbow AA (0.58/s)
warrior longbow AA (0.55/s)
warrior rifle AA (0.63/s)
necromancer staff AA (0.47/s)

Plus a bunch of condi weapons like mesmer scepter, mesmer staff, engineer pistol, thief pistol, etc.

Ranger shortbow is 0.74/s for comparison, similar to ranger longbow (0.7-0.9/s), necro axe (0.81/s), engi rifle (0.77/s), revenant hammer (0.76/s), etc. So, like Fluffball was saying, ranger shortbow dps > staff dps, even without any added conditions.

Anyways, I agree that shortbow needs some love. How would you guys fix it? Personally I’d like SB3 to give 3s of superspeed, SB4 to immobilize instead of cripple, and somehow SB2 needs more oomf.

Hi, perheps I missunderstood somthing, druid ‘s staff base damage is 121 with 0.3 damage coefficient. I think its the lowest weapon’s damage coefficient in the game. But it shoots very fast(one of the fastest in the game) , 1200 range, no projectile and pierce targets on base. So ya, staff AA is fine.

LughLongArm.5460:

Salamander.2504:

Fluffball.8307:

…Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

Other (non-condi) ranged weapon auto attacks that are lower than druid staff (0.66/s dmg coefficient) are:

ranger axe AA (0.5/s)
guardian staff AA (0.6/s)
thief shortbow AA (0.58/s)
warrior longbow AA (0.55/s)
warrior rifle AA (0.63/s)
necromancer staff AA (0.47/s)

Plus a bunch of condi weapons like mesmer scepter, mesmer staff, engineer pistol, thief pistol, etc.

Ranger shortbow is 0.74/s for comparison, similar to ranger longbow (0.7-0.9/s), necro axe (0.81/s), engi rifle (0.77/s), revenant hammer (0.76/s), etc. So, like Fluffball was saying, ranger shortbow dps > staff dps, even without any added conditions.

Anyways, I agree that shortbow needs some love. How would you guys fix it? Personally I’d like SB3 to give 3s of superspeed, SB4 to immobilize instead of cripple, and somehow SB2 needs more oomf.

Hi, perheps I missunderstood somthing, druid ‘s staff base damage is 121 with 0.3 damage coefficient. I think its the lowest weapon’s damage coefficient in the game. But it shoots very fast(one of the fastest in the game) , 1200 range, no projectile and pierce targets on base. So ya, staff AA is fine.

There is no such thing as “base damage” for power damage. The staff hits 3 times in 1.35 seconds, and each hit has a damage coefficient of 0.3. That yields a damage coefficient over time of 0.666/s. You can compare that value with all the other values listed in my post above.

Salamander.2504:

LughLongArm.5460:

Salamander.2504:

Fluffball.8307:

…Staff is a great weapon and you can win fights with it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said it was our best weapon. But without checking the wikie I suspect it’s the worst damaging weapon across all 9 professions (shields and whatnot aside.)

Other (non-condi) ranged weapon auto attacks that are lower than druid staff (0.66/s dmg coefficient) are:

ranger axe AA (0.5/s)
guardian staff AA (0.6/s)
thief shortbow AA (0.58/s)
warrior longbow AA (0.55/s)
warrior rifle AA (0.63/s)
necromancer staff AA (0.47/s)

Plus a bunch of condi weapons like mesmer scepter, mesmer staff, engineer pistol, thief pistol, etc.

Ranger shortbow is 0.74/s for comparison, similar to ranger longbow (0.7-0.9/s), necro axe (0.81/s), engi rifle (0.77/s), revenant hammer (0.76/s), etc. So, like Fluffball was saying, ranger shortbow dps > staff dps, even without any added conditions.

Anyways, I agree that shortbow needs some love. How would you guys fix it? Personally I’d like SB3 to give 3s of superspeed, SB4 to immobilize instead of cripple, and somehow SB2 needs more oomf.

Hi, perheps I missunderstood somthing, druid ‘s staff base damage is 121 with 0.3 damage coefficient. I think its the lowest weapon’s damage coefficient in the game. But it shoots very fast(one of the fastest in the game) , 1200 range, no projectile and pierce targets on base. So ya, staff AA is fine.

There is no such thing as “base damage” for power damage. The staff hits 3 times in 1.35 seconds, and each hit has a damage coefficient of 0.3. That yields a damage coefficient of 0.666/s. You can compare that value with all the other values listed in my post above.

Got ya.

You should never use short bow in any game mode.

The auto-attack of the staff is highly undervalued, I tell you. Only on a pure condi build the SB would do better damage, and even then it isn’t worth taking it.

However, I am testing a shortbow build atm in PvP, and I can tell you that is effective for mid-tier or subtop pvp. Imma test it again after the patch is available today. If its still good, I might share it, cuz I love the shortbow as a weapon in essence, it just needs to be buffed a bit to actually make it useful with different kinds of builds, playstyles and opponents.

Main buff needed would be some sort of escape option. If you take the other weapons into account you have GS #3 and #4, Staff #3 and #4, LB #3, sword #2 as escape options. No wonder that the SB and Axe are considered the least useful mainhands.