Guild Wars 2

ANet is finally adding some counter-play to stealth through the Sic ’Em shout revealing the opponent, and it got me thinking how muddy terrain would also be a great skill to also add reveal to. Game-play wise this would be a great counter-play option to stealth while logic wise moving through the mud would reveal you through the footsteps left in it.

As it stands muddy terrain is a rarely used and a fairly weak utility. It immobilizes for 2 seconds on cast and pulses cripple for 10 seconds. The immobilize on cast is the only good thing about it because the cripple is weak, the AoE easily moved out of, and compared to traps it falls short.

Reveal could be just the thing this utility needs, and it would actually give rangers a strong role in WvW. They would be able to throw down what are essentially anti-stealth AoE which would break infiltration attempts and zergs who try to veil their way through.

When skirmishing the ranger could stand in it to gain a temporary immunity to thieves ganking them with backstab, they could use it on a retreating thief to both immobilize and stop stealth, and it would be the perfect thing to break a shadow refuge.

Burn should be revealed on the target.

Cool idea, +1 to you!

How about giving every ranger skill reveal.
The counterplay options it would provide would be endless and healthy for the game.

I don’t think it would make that much sense though, it’s not like we are just throwing a bucket of mud on the ground… maybe they could add footprints when people run through it though lol.

Fun idea though

muddy terrain will be very strong when fixed (to hit 5 targets instead of 3). id prefer it pulses vulnerability as well. thing is, i hate cripple as a condi, it’s very weak. i’d prefer it gets merged with another condi, or buffed in some way.

I generally agree that cripple is one of the weaker ones, yet when I don’t have it I start swearing that I can’t hit the kitten running 5 feet in front of me ><

First of all, the only weak thing about Muddy Terrain, is that it hits three targets instead of five, which ArenaNet should fix. Other then that it’s the best snare skill we have, after Entangle.

Reveal would instantly make more sense on any skill that already works well, unlike “Sic ’Em”. Like adding reveal to Entangle, Signet of the Hunt, or even Heal As One.

Would be awesome. MT is one of those skills that I really want to use and do try to use often, but its never quite has enough bite to make me keep it.

This is an awesome idea. Much better than Revealed on Sic Em, having a pulsing revealed area for 2 seconds (not stackable in duration) each pulse, forces thieves or other stealth characters to step out of the AoE.

You may even stand on it and no thief can backstab you.

We should just have a trait that adds reveal to our traps. I mean come on, wouldn’t anybody in stealth be revealed due to Spikes going through their legs causing bleeding (giving you away), Snakes crawling all over them, their body looking like a walking snowman, and being on fire? It makes the most sense IMO.

no.

… also its used a lot in wvw

Muddy Terrain as a reveal on short cooldown… Interesting idea, we’d be best counterplay to stealth thieves. But first thing first, I’d increase the radius and fix it to affect 5 targets. Making it 50% bigger would be awesome, in current state you can dodge once and bam! you’re out of it’s effect (lasting 10 sec).

Rym.1469:

I’d increase the radius and fix it to affect 5 targets. Making it 50% bigger would be awesome

this would be nice

… reveal wouldnt (im guessing the reasoning behind revealed being on sic em is at attempt to give ranger the opportunity to burst down thieves before they can restealth… which doesnt make sense with muddy terrain)

Linguistically Inept.6583:

no.

… also its used a lot in wvw

Any reasons why not? I can think of many ways a stealth breaking AoE would be useful, and it would also add some ways to counter tactics which can be very difficult to counter at the moment.

And maybe its just my server which is mid tier, but I haven’t noticed anyone use this skill in some time in and I can only recall it being used on me around 2 times throughout my entire time playing WvW.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Rym.1469:

I’d increase the radius and fix it to affect 5 targets. Making it 50% bigger would be awesome

this would be nice

… reveal wouldnt (im guessing the reasoning behind revealed being on sic em is at attempt to give ranger the opportunity to burst down thieves before they can restealth… which doesnt make sense with muddy terrain)

Reveal on muddy terrain would be far more tactically diverse than sic-em could ever be with reveal, some of which I listed in my OP.

Affecting 5 targets would also be a nice change and with its current effects it could use a larger AoE. Its cripple could also use an increased duration. If reveal was added however I would say the radius is fine, and it could probably use a longer cool-down of say 26-30 seconds to balance it out somewhat.

Maybe not reveal debuff. Just stealth break without giving reveal debuff and keep the cd.

Bri.8354:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

no.

… also its used a lot in wvw

Any reasons why not? I can think of many ways a stealth breaking AoE would be useful, and it would also add some ways to counter tactics which can be very difficult to counter at the moment.

And maybe its just my server which is mid tier, but I haven’t noticed anyone use this skill in some time in and I can only recall it being used on me around 2 times throughout my entire time playing WvW.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Rym.1469:

I’d increase the radius and fix it to affect 5 targets. Making it 50% bigger would be awesome

this would be nice

… reveal wouldnt (im guessing the reasoning behind revealed being on sic em is at attempt to give ranger the opportunity to burst down thieves before they can restealth… which doesnt make sense with muddy terrain)

Reveal on muddy terrain would be far more tactically diverse than sic-em could ever be with reveal, some of which I listed in my OP.

Affecting 5 targets would also be a nice change and with its current effects it could use a larger AoE. Its cripple could also use an increased duration. If reveal was added however I would say the radius is fine, and it could probably use a longer cool-down of say 26-30 seconds to balance it out somewhat.

would it make muddy terrain better? yes

would it make the game better? no… imo it would make it worse (consider it from a thief… or non-ranger perspective…)

any decent ranger uses it in zerg situations just because AoE soft CC (and healing spring) is all ranger has in zvz

>tower gate goes down
>ranger defender uses muddy terrain
>front running attackers are slowed down (but only three atm… which is why standard 5 target aoe cap would be nice)
>ele defender static fields around the now more closely packed attackers
>aoe spam in static field

I think Muddy is already pretty good on its own ….. stupid kitten Recharge nerf it received recently for sPvP aside…. (am I contradicting myself here, I don’t know for sure).

It makes perfect sense as far as Visual physics of being covered in mud goes. But I think there’s plenty of other much less utilized skills that could use a reveal effect attached to them first. …. things like: Throw Dirt, Spike Trap, Sun Spirit (get it??, cuz the sun reveals stuff?), Sig of the Hunt’s Active, and Guard…

Linguistically Inept.6583:

would it make the game better? no… imo it would make it worse (consider it from a thief… or non-ranger perspective…)

I have considered it from the perspective of stealth classes, and I think a little more to look out for would be a good thing. Right now counter-play to stealth is lacking and I think an AoE they would have to be mindful of while in or out of stealth would be a nice thing, something a target requiring skill like sic ‘em (which you can only use while they are visible) can’t do.

Take infiltrating past enemy defenses to drop a portal. You stealth before going in, dodge twice to get through the AoE they are laying down in a choke point, and you make it to your portal drop point without much of a scratch. I’ve seen this done time and time again, and the methods of countering it are lacking.

But what if we had muddy terrain reveal? If it was put in the choke point the mesmer would be revealed while moving through the AoE and could then be focused on before they were able to lay down their portal exit.

The same sort of thing applies to groups using veils and the like.

For thieves it wouldn’t even be that bad. Just don’t try to backstab someone standing in it and if you get hit with it while stealthed, you’re only going to be reveled and immobilized for a few seconds, after which you could easily move out of the AoE and proceed to stealth again.

ilr.9675:

I think Muddy is already pretty good on its own ….. stupid kitten Recharge nerf it received recently for sPvP aside…. (am I contradicting myself here, I don’t know for sure).

It makes perfect sense as far as Visual physics of being covered in mud goes. But I think there’s plenty of other much less utilized skills that could use a reveal effect attached to them first. …. things like: Throw Dirt, Spike Trap, Sun Spirit (get it??, cuz the sun reveals stuff?), Sig of the Hunt’s Active, and Guard…

The change they made isn’t that bad considering they also increased the cripple duration. There are many other skills which I think reveal would fit in well with, but none would be as good as muddy terrain IMO as it is a place-able and lasting AoE.

With increased size, it’d be pretty much Flare skill from Hunter from WoW. They had exclusive stealth detection also for area and it worked.well. Remember that in WoW there was way lesss stealth avalible too. But first of, increase range to allow me to kite target around it/ in it

Bri.8354:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

would it make the game better? no… imo it would make it worse (consider it from a thief… or non-ranger perspective…)

I have considered it from the perspective of stealth classes, and I think a little more to look out for would be a good thing. Right now counter-play to stealth is lacking and I think an AoE they would have to be mindful of while in or out of stealth would be a nice thing, something a target requiring skill like sic ‘em (which you can only use while they are visible) can’t do.

requiring a target means that there is a certain amount of skill required in revealing a thief (you have to predict when they’ll stealth… or get them low -to where they’ll predictably run- and setting your pet on them to ‘burst’ them down before they get away/heal back up)

random aoe means that theres very little skill involved on the rangers part (except… ‘well that thief cant go there’)… and thieves already have to look out whilst in stealth, we already have psuedo area denial/deterrent with barrage, traps and bonfire)

if revealed was proposed on any class than ranger id be strongly against it (despite not playing thief – my thief is 40 or 50 something and never used in pvp)

- bare in mind that revealed invalidates several thief traits (and one mesmer trait) along with sneak attack mechanics temporarily

Someone being on fire should be revealed… just sayin… a big torch walking around isnt going to be well hidden.

Sic em is a cool idea, but it needs a shorter cool down or something, thief just runs away and resets.