Guild Wars 2

Seriously should nerf those 2 pets on druid it does massive damage and its unkillable what the hell..

Get lost thief. Go whine in the pvp section, there’s a thread there already.

They already nerfed Druid pets into the ground. They’re so nerfed you can’t even tame druid pets at all. omg buff druid pets plz.

If you nerf the pets because of druids you hurt the non druid builds more. If your going to call for nerfs find a way to change them that mitigates the impact to non druid builds. The moment we start balancing the base class around the elite specs the elite specs will ALWAYS be mandatory and we will never be able to get away from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bristleback-dmg-output/first

Check this thread there are so many people already asking for nerf on bristleback.

Bristleback + smoke scale is kittenedly strong and its just unkillable which is OP.

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bristleback-dmg-output/first

Check this thread there are so many people already asking for nerf on bristleback.

Bristleback + smoke scale is kittenedly strong and its just unkillable which is OP.

Bristleback F2 is strong burst, especially in Beastmastery builds with lots of boons.
You do realise the damage of the current meta druid build is mostly pet damage since they do exactly that (boons + beastmastery), right? The pet is SUPPOSED to be a threat in beastmastery builds, not a meatsack you can just ignore all the time like you used to.
If you can’t dodge the Bristleback F2 that’s a l2p issue. The people complaining about it are the same ones that whine about rapidfire.

Smokescale has horrible damage outside of its Unrelenting Assault ability. Again, just dodge that and you’re fine.

Current druid build has pretty much nothing exept Lunar Impact in CA you really need to dodge, just save your dodges for the pet F2.

There’s only 1 ability in the whole Druid store that deals damage, is capable of doing damage only in 1v1 and is negated by almost everything.

And people still can’t handle it.
You might not have noticed but Rangers have had their companions for 3 and a half year, now. That’s what the pets are about. To be able to take a damage pet while being tanky. Or to take a tanky pet while playing glass.

Your suggestion only makes sense if you make Ranger’s personal DPS scale the same way as all other professions can – making our DPS as bursty as thieves, meaning buffing Rapid Fire by at least 30%, Maul by 25%, all weapon autoattacks by 20%; stop sword from rooting us and that would be all, for starters.

Why? Because by playing full glass cannon we achieve less damage increase than other classes. If they buff Rangers themselves so our attacks actually hurt (just like those of a thief); I’d be fine with your nerf.

Currently it says nothing. The only thing I learned is that you confessed you can’t handle a druid 1v1 and haven’t checked the design of the class of your enemies.

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bristleback-dmg-output/first

Check this thread there are so many people already asking for nerf on bristleback.

Bristleback + smoke scale is kittenedly strong and its just unkillable which is OP.

1) On pvp forum ppl just crying about everything. I even sometimes see some warriors OP threads.

2)Rnger community reported Bristleback F2 in the bug list as it apparently shoots 20 times up from the 15 times mentioned in the tooltip(developers will decide if the F2 should be changed or rather just the tooltip).

3)Few skills in the game had been looked at as much as smokescale’s smoke assault. Developers nerfed it like 3-4 times, its very easy to nerf it to the level of uselessness.

4)Bristleback is very fragile if you just focus fire it.

5) I will agree that it seems that Bristleback and smokescale outshine most of our other pets. Belive me, lots of rangers would love to replace Bristleback and smokescale with other pets, but while traits and skills abre being changed, balanced and developed over time, most of the ranger’s pet abilities are outdated mechanic wise and numbers wise. Just look at the thread above you on how ridiculous it is to have a dps fragile pet with an uncontrollable “speical ability” to stop dpsing for like 2 sec in order to give aoe 10 sec swiftness, in a game state that everyboudy have prema swiftness always.

Coming to cry about this on the Ranger forum isn’t gonna get you any support, lol. Thread created by a necro complaining about damage from bristleback when he himself said he was using zerker, of course it’s gonna do alot of damage, same as any other source when you’re running glass

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bristleback-dmg-output/first

Check this thread there are so many people already asking for nerf on bristleback.

Bristleback + smoke scale is kittenedly strong and its just unkillable which is OP.

Inc Wall o Text TLDR at the end

That thread has nothing to do with what I said by the way. If its the DRUID with the pets that are the issue. Then nerf the aspects of the druid that synnergise so well with the pets.

To put it into perspective. The reasons these pets perform so well with druids isn’t the pets themselves. Its how they interact with the druids toolset. A druid has very high recovery and control capabilities. While having moderate damage as well. This means that with the bristleback they have EVERY niche filled. Control Dmg and Support in high amounts in all three sections. Making them godlike 1v1ers much like the DD ele of old. The only people that can win an even skilled fight against them are people running builds that straight up counter them. Or builds that provide the same benefits.

A bristlebacks base burst isn’t higher than the burst of most other classes. Infact as far as individual skills go its actually inferior to alot of burst combos. In that it NEEDS the druids support to be guaranteed to land. (lunar impact. Ancient Seeds. Entangle. AF 5 for examples)

Much life rapid fire much of a bristlebacks f2 can be dodged. It can also be reflected/destroyed. The bristleback himself can also be killed. People used to complain that rapid fire is OP. Now longbow rangers are no longer meta. Infact the only near meta build that uses a longbow…relies on Druid and staff to cover for its weaknesses. Becuase there are so many counter skills that work against it… And this just in ALL of those work against the bristleback as well. Literally every single one of them.

The channel time is long. Supported only by sources of quickness which are easily followed. (Pet swap is the rangers only current source of quickness aside from a sigil)

Does it hit hard? Yes. But ANY telegraphed skill with that long an activation time and that long a cast time NEEDS to hit hard. (Im counting activation the time before it starts firing and after the f2 has been pressed and cast time as the time in which its actually firing the projectiles). If it didn’t no one would ever use it because it would be a dps loss from the auto attack.

The bristleback is very similar to the rangers longbow in that case. Back before rapid fire was buffed, there were almost no times when it was a good idea to use it. It was actually a straight dps loss over firing the auto attack at mid-max range. Meaning the only time it could be used was against thieves in order to follow them in stealth. Or when the enemy was in melee range and you needed a way to pressure them into dodging.

However a bristleback doesn’t have that niche. Its main attack doesn’t scale with range. Meaning it would ALWAYS be a dps increase to use it regardless of range. Causing Spike Barrage to be a dead skill…it would never be used except as a cancel cast to trigger f2 based traits.

The smokescale itself is probably the only real example of a well balanced and FUNCTIONING pet we have. It has its job. And it does it. It has a defensive skill, A CC skill, and a chaser skill. In PvE its a tanky pet capable of self mighting for more damage. In PvP its a harasser designed to stick to a target in order to apply continuous pressure and the ONLY melee pet we have capable of surviving in the AOE fest that is conquest.

The bristleback however is an incredibly specialized pet. Its squishy yet has high damage output. Both on its autoattack and through its burst.

The only time this is an exemption is when ONE minor trait is active. A little trait called bark skin. Which is the source of nearly all complaints that ranger pets are unkillable. This trait massively reduces the damage the pet takes when the ranger is above a health threshold.

This trait has never been considered OP because simple retaliation kept the ranger below the required threshold.

Infact. There is only ONE ranger build that can reliably keep the pet alive through barkskin….And thats the druid.

Due to the druids control skills and active self recovery the druid is able to put themselves back above the health threshold incredibly quickly if even a few seconds are allowed it. Meaning swapping from the druid to the pet in order to kill it to prevent repeated F2s doesn’t work like it should. Because the moment you swap off suddenly the pet has bark skin again. Making it nigh unkillable.

What the bristleback needs isn’t a nerf. It needs the artificial survivability granted to it by bark skin reduced. As druids benefit from this minor trait FAR more than any other ranger build. So the minor trait bark skin should be nerfed OR altered in a way that lowers its synergy with druids but still maintains its benefit to other ranger builds.

Mayhap have it changed so that its a base increase in toughness with a passive regen attached to it like its counterpart in many D&D based games (oakskin).

TLDR; The bristleback itself isn’t OP. It has low enough defensive stats that killing it SHOULD be an option just as all dangerous pets are meant to have (Like cats). However druid synergy with the WK trait bark skin makes that very difficult. As a druid equipped with this minor trait can infact keep there pet alive almost indefinitely simply through self healing up to the threshhold the moment the pressure swaps from them to there pets. In other words there toolset is very well designed towards maintaining there burst machine. Where it SHOULD be possible to break that machine as part of an opposing players strategy.

Id reccomend reworking bark skin to a different mechanic. And putting its defensive functionality on an active utility skill. Such as Guard which has needed a strong rework for a very long time.

To continue on my above post. Moving the functionality of Bark Skin to Guard as I suggested above in order to lower the survivability of pets that SHOULD be killable would have a couple effects.

First. It would force a player taking guard to chose between higher dmg from there pet or higher survivability. As guard cancels once you press the F2 firing the skill would actually leave it more open to damage. Like swapping from a defensive stance to an offensive once. Meaning that when the pet is firing would actually be a golden opportunity to kill it.

Second. It would put the survivability of the pet into a seperate mechanic apart from a druids self healing. Meaning that the benefit a druid and ranger would gain from this effect would be identical. Causing its worth to be balanced between the ranger and the druid. Meaning it could be further balanced without being held between druid and non druid builds.

It would also mean that druids (or rangers) that wanted to maintain there bristleback under DIRECT pressure would have to give up a utility slot. Something that only a few players would be willing to do.

Infact this would go further to support pet based builds than any other. A playstyle that has been incredibly weak since the death of the cruise missile pet builds.

Honestly, I’d rather they buffed the original pets to do the same damage.

Running those pets with Beastmastery makes them feel like an actual contributing factor in my build rather than a utility.

psizone.8437:

Honestly, I’d rather they buffed the original pets to do the same damage.

Running those pets with Beastmastery makes them feel like an actual contributing factor in my build rather than a utility.

Id like them to be about on the same level as the current Smokescale if I could. But in most cases improving there ability to stick to a target would go a long way. Which is one way that the smokescale is just so kitten superior.

Shadelang.3012:

psizone.8437:

Honestly, I’d rather they buffed the original pets to do the same damage.

Running those pets with Beastmastery makes them feel like an actual contributing factor in my build rather than a utility.

Id like them to be about on the same level as the current Smokescale if I could. But in most cases improving there ability to stick to a target would go a long way. Which is one way that the smokescale is just so kitten superior.

Yup, Smokescale has been amazing. Having a pet that can actually hit a moving target is just too good compared to the old pets.

psizone.8437:

Shadelang.3012:

psizone.8437:

Honestly, I’d rather they buffed the original pets to do the same damage.

Running those pets with Beastmastery makes them feel like an actual contributing factor in my build rather than a utility.

Id like them to be about on the same level as the current Smokescale if I could. But in most cases improving there ability to stick to a target would go a long way. Which is one way that the smokescale is just so kitten superior.

Yup, Smokescale has been amazing. Having a pet that can actually hit a moving target is just too good compared to the old pets.

Aye its one of the reasons im terrified theyl nerf it again. Even if it ends up doing bear level dmg alot of people will still have to take it. Simply because it works better on the mechanical level than any other pet. If only wyverns were like that -.-

Shadelang.3012:

To continue on my above post. Moving the functionality of Bark Skin to Guard as I suggested above in order to lower the survivability of pets that SHOULD be killable would have a couple effects.

First. It would force a player taking guard to chose between higher dmg from there pet or higher survivability. As guard cancels once you press the F2 firing the skill would actually leave it more open to damage. Like swapping from a defensive stance to an offensive once. Meaning that when the pet is firing would actually be a golden opportunity to kill it.

Second. It would put the survivability of the pet into a seperate mechanic apart from a druids self healing. Meaning that the benefit a druid and ranger would gain from this effect would be identical. Causing its worth to be balanced between the ranger and the druid. Meaning it could be further balanced without being held between druid and non druid builds.

It would also mean that druids (or rangers) that wanted to maintain there bristleback under DIRECT pressure would have to give up a utility slot. Something that only a few players would be willing to do.

Infact this would go further to support pet based builds than any other. A playstyle that has been incredibly weak since the death of the cruise missile pet builds.

Hi, don’t like your guard idea at all.
1)In order to solve a problem you first need to prove that a problem exists. Even with bark skin, bristleback melts in group fights and in 1v1 vs condi players that know what they’r doing.

2)While druids find a place in the meta, i dont see them overpreforming espically in top tier pvp. The amulet changes (celec removal)will reduce some of the “defensive synergie” you were talking about.

3)You dont change trait lines just to deal with one “over preforming” pet.

4)making gaurd = barkskin as an activate button to mintain a passive buff is boring, utilities supposed to be active and scenario based.

5)It will give the BM traitline to much of an adge. Now that protect me seems viable, giving us another defesnive shout will just make BM all in one tait line, as it is probably one of the best offensive traitline with so much defence and utility(best heal and elite) you can skip completly WS(protect me for the protaction, gaurd for bark skin, soldair rune for condi removal).

If you ask me, guard should be a utility that after activation replaces the utility slot with the pet’s special ability, making the pet to preform that skill on activation(with seperate CD) . While not 100% fits thematicly, it will make the skill very interesting and will bring back lots of pets(dogs for KD, drakes for blast, moas for aoe heal, birds for out of combat swiftness, etc….)

Shadelang.3012:

/snip

TLDR; The bristleback itself isn’t OP. It has low enough defensive stats that killing it SHOULD be an option just as all dangerous pets are meant to have (Like cats). However druid synergy with the WK trait bark skin makes that very difficult. As a druid equipped with this minor trait can infact keep there pet alive almost indefinitely simply through self healing up to the threshhold the moment the pressure swaps from them to there pets. In other words there toolset is very well designed towards maintaining there burst machine. Where it SHOULD be possible to break that machine as part of an opposing players strategy.

I….I understand the world now O.O

LughLongArm.5460:

Shadelang.3012:

To continue on my above post. Moving the functionality of Bark Skin to Guard as I suggested above in order to lower the survivability of pets that SHOULD be killable would have a couple effects.

First. It would force a player taking guard to chose between higher dmg from there pet or higher survivability. As guard cancels once you press the F2 firing the skill would actually leave it more open to damage. Like swapping from a defensive stance to an offensive once. Meaning that when the pet is firing would actually be a golden opportunity to kill it.

Second. It would put the survivability of the pet into a seperate mechanic apart from a druids self healing. Meaning that the benefit a druid and ranger would gain from this effect would be identical. Causing its worth to be balanced between the ranger and the druid. Meaning it could be further balanced without being held between druid and non druid builds.

It would also mean that druids (or rangers) that wanted to maintain there bristleback under DIRECT pressure would have to give up a utility slot. Something that only a few players would be willing to do.

Infact this would go further to support pet based builds than any other. A playstyle that has been incredibly weak since the death of the cruise missile pet builds.

Hi, don’t like your guard idea at all.
1)In order to solve a problem you first need to prove that a problem exists. Even with bark skin, bristleback melts in group fights and in 1v1 vs condi players that know what they’r doing.

2)While druids find a place in the meta, i dont see them overpreforming espically in top tier pvp. The amulet changes (celec removal)will reduce some of the “defensive synergie” you were talking about.

3)You dont change trait lines just to deal with one “over preforming” pet.

4)making gaurd = barkskin as an activate button to mintain a passive buff is boring, utilities supposed to be active and scenario based.

5)It will give the BM traitline to much of an adge. Now that protect me seems viable, giving us another defesnive shout will just make BM all in one tait line, as it is probably one of the best offensive traitline with so much defence and utility(best heal and elite) you can skip completly WS(protect me for the protaction, gaurd for bark skin, soldair rune for condi removal).

If you ask me, guard should be a utility that after activation replaces the utility slot with the pet’s special ability, making the pet to preform that skill on activation(with seperate CD) . While not 100% fits thematicly, it will make the skill very interesting and will bring back lots of pets(dogs for KD, drakes for blast, moas for aoe heal, birds for out of combat swiftness, etc….)

Good to see well thought out replies for once. Ill address your points in turn.

1) Whether we think there is a problem or not as the users frankly does not matter. It is largely up to the community to decide if there is a problem or not. We have seen evidence of this in the past. I believe that as it currently stands bristleback will be nerfed into the ground eventually. I’m expecting an eventual reduction of atleast 40% on its f2 damage as well as an increase in cooldown. ANY time where a AI source deals high damage it has been destroyed… In EVERY previous example up to this point. The only exceptions have been when those damage sources practically melt in combat. I have no doubt the pattern will repeat. And I don’t want to get turret engineered. We all know how THAT went.

2) The druid isn’t super over performing against the other meta builds true. However it does preform significantly higher than any non druid ranger build. To put it simply a Druid just has more base potential than a ranger. And as it stands that isn’t going to change. A part of that is how a druid synergises with pets like the birstleback. It becomes a case where they can maintain all 3 dynamics of our combat system. Damage Control and Support. The changes to amulets will not change them. What it WILL do however is when they go for support they have less sustained damage. However the burst damage they get from the bristleback will be identical. And there synergy with barkskin in keeping the bristleback alive will stay exactly the same. Meaning that a druid WILL benefit far more form this minor trait than a ranger ever could. Hell even for a longbow power ranger retaliation is enough to take us under the health threshold leaving our pets vulnerable.

3) But people HAVE changed trait lines to deal with overperforming synergies in the past. In our case it just happens to be our class mechanic. There has been cases of trait lines being altered to change how a class mechanic works. It just hasn’t affected us yet in a massive way. The fact that its a pet has 0 connection in this case. Its a tool just like our weapons.

4) If you read what I said you would realize that this would actually make it MORE active. As the player would have to chose whether or not to use the F2 due to the fact that using said F2 would leave the pet without the bark skin effect.

I have used shouts since the release of the game. And im fairly certain I am the only 5 shout non druid ranger in legendary tier at this time. (Because no one else is stupid enough to go from amber to legendary as a 5 shout non druid ranger >.<)

Guard cancels upon receiving ANY other order. f1-f4 or any other utility shout. Meaning that it would be a toggeled defensive mode. (My pet is in fire so I am going to leave it under guard but once the fire is out im going to activate its f2 leaving it vulnerable to deal more damage). That is a FAR more engaging decision making process than a largely accidental byproduct of a purely passive mechanic. Its ALREADY passive. I wan’t to make it active.

5) The BM traitline having an edge has nothing to do with this change actually. In its new form it would ONLY affect the pet. Meaning it would give no defensive edge to the ranger. Its not like you could use protect me and then cast guard to turn your pet into a super sponge. It would infact cancel it. It would simply become an effective defensive option for your pet in its own right. It would however give a pet based build the tool it needs to maintain the pet under pressure. Which im sure we can agree is necessary. Right now protecting the pet relies heavily on Situational Awareness and luck. Unless your a druid with bark skin. Im not suggesting shout rangers have on demand bark skin for themselves. That would be bloody insane and so horrendously overpowered the mandatory nerfs would gut the mechanic entirely.

Your concept of guard sadly would be useless with most pets. It would only be effective with a few families in fact. Making in inherintly flawed for a pet based utility. Would it bound to the pets base cooldowns? Would it allow you to BYPASS cooldowns? The varying levels of performance there is insane from pet family to pet family. Some would gain massive benifit form it. Others would gain borderline 0. (Why would a shout ranger give a flying kitten about making his bird produce swiftness….hes already got 2 and a half minutes of it).

Forum bugged out massively for me there. Sorry for anyone that saw it.

savacli.8172:

Shadelang.3012:

/snip

TLDR; The bristleback itself isn’t OP. It has low enough defensive stats that killing it SHOULD be an option just as all dangerous pets are meant to have (Like cats). However druid synergy with the WK trait bark skin makes that very difficult. As a druid equipped with this minor trait can infact keep there pet alive almost indefinitely simply through self healing up to the threshhold the moment the pressure swaps from them to there pets. In other words there toolset is very well designed towards maintaining there burst machine. Where it SHOULD be possible to break that machine as part of an opposing players strategy.

I….I understand the world now O.O

I guess it WAS a bit long winded >.< sorry about that.

Oh no, another thread of noobs asking for nerfs… We should do the same with the perma stealth thieves enjoy and we have to handle as we can because we don’t have tools to effectively fight it.

And then coming around the weird rangers asking for nerfs.. This is getting old dudes. Ranger or druid do not need more nerfs, skills like Barkskin are completely garbage: 1.8K health you can peel it off with just one AA from almost any weapon. Even with the damage reduction.

If the noobs only focus in the pet that’s their problem not ranger’s one. L2P issue i would say.

Shadelang.3012:

LughLongArm.5460:

Shadelang.3012:

To continue on my above post. Moving the functionality of Bark Skin to Guard as I suggested above in order to lower the survivability of pets that SHOULD be killable would have a couple effects.

First. It would force a player taking guard to chose between higher dmg from there pet or higher survivability. As guard cancels once you press the F2 firing the skill would actually leave it more open to damage. Like swapping from a defensive stance to an offensive once. Meaning that when the pet is firing would actually be a golden opportunity to kill it.

Second. It would put the survivability of the pet into a seperate mechanic apart from a druids self healing. Meaning that the benefit a druid and ranger would gain from this effect would be identical. Causing its worth to be balanced between the ranger and the druid. Meaning it could be further balanced without being held between druid and non druid builds.

It would also mean that druids (or rangers) that wanted to maintain there bristleback under DIRECT pressure would have to give up a utility slot. Something that only a few players would be willing to do.

Infact this would go further to support pet based builds than any other. A playstyle that has been incredibly weak since the death of the cruise missile pet builds.

Hi, don’t like your guard idea at all.
1)In order to solve a problem you first need to prove that a problem exists. Even with bark skin, bristleback melts in group fights and in 1v1 vs condi players that know what they’r doing.

2)While druids find a place in the meta, i dont see them overpreforming espically in top tier pvp. The amulet changes (celec removal)will reduce some of the “defensive synergie” you were talking about.

3)You dont change trait lines just to deal with one “over preforming” pet.

4)making gaurd = barkskin as an activate button to mintain a passive buff is boring, utilities supposed to be active and scenario based.

5)It will give the BM traitline to much of an adge. Now that protect me seems viable, giving us another defesnive shout will just make BM all in one tait line, as it is probably one of the best offensive traitline with so much defence and utility(best heal and elite) you can skip completly WS(protect me for the protaction, gaurd for bark skin, soldair rune for condi removal).

If you ask me, guard should be a utility that after activation replaces the utility slot with the pet’s special ability, making the pet to preform that skill on activation(with seperate CD) . While not 100% fits thematicly, it will make the skill very interesting and will bring back lots of pets(dogs for KD, drakes for blast, moas for aoe heal, birds for out of combat swiftness, etc….)

Good to see well thought out replies for once. Ill address your points in turn.

1) Whether we think there is a problem or not as the users frankly does not matter. It is largely up to the community to decide if there is a problem or not. We have seen evidence of this in the past. I believe that as it currently stands bristleback will be nerfed into the ground eventually. I’m expecting an eventual reduction of atleast 40% on its f2 damage as well as an increase in cooldown. ANY time where a AI source deals high damage it has been destroyed… In EVERY previous example up to this point. The only exceptions have been when those damage sources practically melt in combat. I have no doubt the pattern will repeat. And I don’t want to get turret engineered. We all know how THAT went.

2) The druid isn’t super over performing against the other meta builds true. However it does preform significantly higher than any non druid ranger build. To put it simply a Druid just has more base potential than a ranger. And as it stands that isn’t going to change. A part of that is how a druid synergises with pets like the birstleback. It becomes a case where they can maintain all 3 dynamics of our combat system. Damage Control and Support. The changes to amulets will not change them. What it WILL do however is when they go for support they have less sustained damage. However the burst damage they get from the bristleback will be identical. And there synergy with barkskin in keeping the bristleback alive will stay exactly the same. Meaning that a druid WILL benefit far more form this minor trait than a ranger ever could. Hell even for a longbow power ranger retaliation is enough to take us under the health threshold leaving our pets vulnerable.

3) But people HAVE changed trait lines to deal with overperforming synergies in the past. In our case it just happens to be our class mechanic. There has been cases of trait lines being altered to change how a class mechanic works. It just hasn’t affected us yet in a massive way. The fact that its a pet has 0 connection in this case. Its a tool just like our weapons.

4) If you read what I said you would realize that this would actually make it MORE active. As the player would have to chose whether or not to use the F2 due to the fact that using said F2 would leave the pet without the bark skin effect.

I have used shouts since the release of the game. And im fairly certain I am the only 5 shout non druid ranger in legendary tier at this time. (Because no one else is stupid enough to go from amber to legendary as a 5 shout non druid ranger >.<)

Guard cancels upon receiving ANY other order. f1-f4 or any other utility shout. Meaning that it would be a toggeled defensive mode. (My pet is in fire so I am going to leave it under guard but once the fire is out im going to activate its f2 leaving it vulnerable to deal more damage). That is a FAR more engaging decision making process than a largely accidental byproduct of a purely passive mechanic. Its ALREADY passive. I wan’t to make it active.

5) The BM traitline having an edge has nothing to do with this change actually. In its new form it would ONLY affect the pet. Meaning it would give no defensive edge to the ranger. Its not like you could use protect me and then cast guard to turn your pet into a super sponge. It would infact cancel it. It would simply become an effective defensive option for your pet in its own right. It would however give a pet based build the tool it needs to maintain the pet under pressure. Which im sure we can agree is necessary. Right now protecting the pet relies heavily on Situational Awareness and luck. Unless your a druid with bark skin. Im not suggesting shout rangers have on demand bark skin for themselves. That would be bloody insane and so horrendously overpowered the mandatory nerfs would gut the mechanic entirely.

Your concept of guard sadly would be useless with most pets. It would only be effective with a few families in fact. Making in inherintly flawed for a pet based utility. Would it bound to the pets base cooldowns? Would it allow you to BYPASS cooldowns? The varying levels of performance there is insane from pet family to pet family. Some would gain massive benifit form it. Others would gain borderline 0. (Why would a shout ranger give a flying kitten about making his bird produce swiftness….hes already got 2 and a half minutes of it).

Thanx for the immersed reply.
I do expect a 25% damage nerf on brist F2(bug fix) and perheps increase CD. I’m Ok with such nerfs. Most elite specialisations out class core professions, I think its by sesighn and will only be balanced after the release of more elitle specialisations (as you can only chose one at a time). I dont think druid/pets got overpreforming synergie, from what I can remember, druid got alot of criticism for being unsynergetic with pets. I do agree that brist and smoke out shine the other pets.

When I was talking BM as a defensive trait line i ment the new protect me and guard as barkskin for you as well and your pet(like the WS trait). barkskin for pet only will never see play and its a small upgrade from what we have now, as it now gives almost prema protaction to pets.

As a shout lover you should realy hope that all the “cancels upon receiving any other order” BS will be removed like they did with Sice’m and probably with the new protect me.

The concept I gave is unrefined true, but i do think it can improve the current situation where you mostly sees 2 pets only playable. Regarding birds, one might want to take it without the RT trait or just to denay this skill being for being used by the brid, as it is a dps drop(there is an active thread on this subject). I think it will be nice with drakes moas dogs and spiders and perheps bring them back. A.net sis say they want to “explore ways to improve on the ranger’s ties to both their pets and nature”.

@Lugh

I fully understand what you mean by both the likely nerf and what your saying about the elite specs and likelyhood of rebalancing.

On the mechanic concept you were talking about with an altered guard mechanic I can see where your going with improving non Bristle/smoke pets. I just don’t feel that its going to happen anytime soon. Whats pushing the birstleback and smokescale so far ahead in PvP isn’t even there damage. Its that that they are a dozen times more reliable than ANY other pet in there archetypes. Bristleback attacks track better than any other ranged pets and they have higher range as well. Smokescales have a gap closer that actually MEANS something as well as defensive tools to let them survive staying close. As well as application of damage that actually MATTERS (this is more important than the damage that they actually do) Even if these two pets get destroyed. People will still probably use them. Simply because there just better designed than anything else we have got with mobile combat in mind. When a canine can stick to a target and survive in melee as well as a smokescale. Then ill probably use it again since I miss my dual wolves. However as it is now. It is just so hard to justify taking them no matter how much I want to. And frankly the new pets are a big part of whats keep base line ranger relevant in the current combat scene. Though we will have to see if that changes with the patch.

As for the cancel built into shouts getting removed. They did that with sic em. But doing that with guard and protect me would be pretty big changes. It would getting rid of the placement effect of guard entirely. Making it a totally different skill in concept if not practice. And protect me would need to no longer cause the pet to stop attacking. Something I have been arguing for for an extremely long time now. I doubt Ill see it.

I would argue that barkskin for the pet only WOULD see play. But only if players learned to attack the pets. Then there would actually be a noticeable difference in combat between a pet focused playstyle and a ranger focused playstyle. Also my opinion is rather biased as I AM using the pet focused playstyle for the profession.

I’ll chime in with this. If the Bristleback’s F2 is corrected to fire 15 shots instead of the current 20 ONLY, then I’m fine with that. However, if there is going to be a series of adjustments such as correcting the number of projectiles on Spike Barrage, increasing the cooldown, and/or damage reduction per projectile, then I want compensation.

Compensation in the form of Spike Shoot (auto) & Spike Barrage (F2) having a 20% chance to be a projectile finisher and Rain of Spike projectiles to become full-on projectile finishers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZppw3QMAk&rdm=1us9zu6t2&client=mv-google

Check the video above and see how cheesy mode and lame playstyle that druid has.
all he does in the video just runs kite and massive heal repeat rotation and his pet doing all the work. And no, dont compare thief to a ranger because thief require skills at least to play effective and more likely d/p and s/d are the only competible weapon set.
and, Why not nerf those 2 pets (not the whole pets and the mechanics) and buff other ranger stuff because pet is just there to support u in combat but look at that video lol funny that pet > ranger. Half of the time in that video all he does as ranger = heals and run.

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZppw3QMAk&rdm=1us9zu6t2&client=mv-google

For those of u saying that ranger is in bad state and needs buff should seriously quit the game.
Check the video above and see how cheesy easy mode and lame playstyle that druid has.
all he does in the video just runs kite and massive heal repeat rotation and his pet doing all the work. And no dont compare thief to ranger because thief require skills at least to play effective and more likely d/p and s/d are the only competible weapon set.

Err. the conversation kinda evolved past that point midori >.< sorry we couldn’t really take you seriously. This post doesn’t help. One mans skill is another mans cheese. In archeage archers were convinced there playstyle was the epitome of skill and that mages were cheese. The other side though it was the other way around. Edit: and in the mean time all the melee fighters were crying in a corner.

Same kitten here really. Thief is underpowered atm. Everyone knows it. Wait till after its buffed to compare the two man. Your getting some heavy damage increases in the future. If thief gets to the point where it can 2-3 shot near every other “meta” build will you be admitting that its brainless then like your accusing the druid of being? Or will you claim that its due to the thieves own skill and that the other players should just l2P.

Also I don’t think anyone was saying it was in a bad state and needed buffs. Which leads me to believe you aren’t really reading peoples posts here. If anything people are arguing against nerfs not FOR buffs. The only buffs we really want is for all our OTHER pets to be useful in the current meta. Then we wouldn’t have to rely on the smokescale or bristleback.

Shadelang.3012:

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZppw3QMAk&rdm=1us9zu6t2&client=mv-google

For those of u saying that ranger is in bad state and needs buff should seriously quit the game.
Check the video above and see how cheesy easy mode and lame playstyle that druid has.
all he does in the video just runs kite and massive heal repeat rotation and his pet doing all the work. And no dont compare thief to ranger because thief require skills at least to play effective and more likely d/p and s/d are the only competible weapon set.

it isnt about l2p issue.

i am talking about the pet that does more damage than ranger it self and its tanky as kitten

Btw its funny when a ranger class talks about l2p. Easiest profession to play that req no skills at all.

Err. the conversation kinda evolved past that point midori >.< sorry we couldn’t really take you seriously. This post doesn’t help. One mans skill is another mans cheese. In archeage archers were convinced there playstyle was the epitome of skill and that mages were cheese. The other side though it was the other way around.

Same kitten here really. Thief is underpowered atm. Everyone knows it. Wait till after its buffed to compare the two man. Your getting some heavy damage increases in the future. If thief gets to the point where it can 2-3 shot near every other “meta” build will you be admitting that its brainless then like your accusing the druid of being? Or will you claim that its due to the thieves own skill and that the other players should just l2P.

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZppw3QMAk&rdm=1us9zu6t2&client=mv-google

Check the video above and see how cheesy mode and lame playstyle that druid has.
all he does in the video just runs kite and massive heal repeat rotation and his pet doing all the work. And no, dont compare thief to a ranger because thief require skills at least to play effective and more likely d/p and s/d are the only competible weapon set.
and, Why not nerf those 2 pets (not the whole pets and the mechanics) and buff other ranger stuff because pet is just there to support u in combat but look at that video lol funny that pet > ranger. Half of the time in that video all he does as ranger = heals and run.

The video you linked might be a bad example… he has to continuously move and heal to stay alive (his health drops really low a lot), not exactly a lazy playstyle.

Bit rude about the comparison of Thief and Ranger, both classes have builds that require skill to play effectively and equally both have builds that require no effort (permaheal Druid and Condistealth Thief). I play both classes regularly in WvW and since the Daredevil came out, I think the Thief is considerably easier to survive with, though the buffs coming next week are sorely needed for their power weapons.

Really, in this case it’s not the pets that were overpowered, you seem to be more annoyed by the Druids healing and taking your anger out in the wrong direction.

MidoriMarch.8067:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZppw3QMAk&rdm=1us9zu6t2&client=mv-google

Check the video above and see how cheesy mode and lame playstyle that druid has.
all he does in the video just runs kite and massive heal repeat rotation and his pet doing all the work. And no, dont compare thief to a ranger because thief require skills at least to play effective and more likely d/p and s/d are the only competible weapon set.
and, Why not nerf those 2 pets (not the whole pets and the mechanics) and buff other ranger stuff because pet is just there to support u in combat but look at that video lol funny that pet > ranger. Half of the time in that video all he does as ranger = heals and run.

I know his build intimately and i can tell ya, this build is only good for solo roaming and nothing more. Even 1vs1 its not always good as it cant kill bunker builds of reventant,chrono,scrapper,tempest, you just end up with a draw. Aslo, the comments suggsets that hizen didnt put his loses(vans says he killed him lots of times). We’r talking about pvp here, this build/ play style wont do in pvp as you cant cap or be helpful to team while running and stealthing and healing yourself. In WvsW most professions can make bunker grindy builds. And BTW this play style also works with birds and cats.

@psizone

No rangers are more easier to survive than thief due to a good sustain and kiting , range etc
and thief is definitely harder to play than rangers.

MidoriMarch.8067:

@psizone

No rangers are more easier to survive than thief due to a good sustain and kiting , range etc
and thief is definitely harder to play than rangers.

I completely disagree, Thief has ample stealth, multiple teleporting abilities and multiple evade weapons skills and with Daredevil you can have 3 dodges and using the new heal can replenish 2/3rds of your endurance bars, essentially giving you 5 dodges.

Like I said, each class has builds that can be played with skill or can be a breeze to play. Thief is definitely not lacking in the survival side of things though.

Remember the d/d condi build with plex rune? that was kinda immortal annyoing troll faceroling build.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Seriously should nerf those 2 pets on druid it does massive damage and its unkillable what the hell..

Make random, ambiguous post with no data or explanation, then cite other post to explain/justify…are people not taught how to thoughtfully present a persuasion or opinion piece anymore?

Is it simply, “R mad cuz losed, pvp balance suck. pet OP!” ?

l2p if you think pets are OP

>Complaining about a slightly controllable, somewhat squishy AI target that you can pressure into death/being switched out

Compared to our other pets, the fact that this one is a half decent threat in tandem with its master coordinating with it well means that its actually working. More pets should be like this.

Oh look. Someone died to a pet in PvP again, and he came crying to the ranger boards about it. I think we’ve heard this story before. . . .

People are apparently still too stupid to look at the amount of traits that actually benefits the pet in the ranger pvp meta builds. Nature Magic and Beastmastery contribute to a major increase in pet damage, and with smokescales and bristlebacks having an easier time sticking to the opponent than the vanilla pets, people start QQing about it because that potential damage actually hits more frequently.

You can probably tone down the amounts of projectile from the Bristleback does on its F2 (I wan’t a projectile finisher % chance in return, please), but a ranger running NM and BM will always have high pet damage potential. And the Bristleback won’t stop hitting you if you nerf its damage.

I, for one, will admit to highly overlooking a Ranger’s pet. I started a Ranger pretty early on in the game, and the little guys always felt more of a burden than a blessing. Nowadays, I’ve picked the class back up since the Druid Elite was released, and it took a few weeks before I released just how much potential our companions have.

The way I see it, you have the perfect duo. Druids, in the healer role, can heal and buff very readily. Though, I would be surprised to see them take on a bunny (no, not the fractal bunny). Pets like the Bristleback hit like a truck, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them fall over from a moderate breeze. Mix the two of them together, and you get a healer with a very protective bodyguard and a gatling gun on 4 legs that’s seemingly invincible from all the heals and buffs he’s getting.

How do you take that on? Either rush the healer fast enough to where he can’t react, or you can find a way to nullify the pets attack (coughprojectilecough) so you can focus more comfortably against the caster.

Lazze.9870:

a ranger running NM and BM will always have high pet damage potential. And the Bristleback won’t stop hitting you if you nerf its damage.

So….using two trait lines to make our pets somewhat more threatening in exchange for our personal damage (No skirmishing/marksmanship = No MoC/OS/QD ) is imbalanced? Its just a more defensive setup that heavily relies on your pet dealing the bulk of your burst while you sustain*.

I still don’t see the problem – it just sounds like you experienced someone using the Bristleback/Smokescale burst really well and want to call it OP.

*(The meta’s definitely shifting away from this in the upcoming patch, so its better to wait and see how things work before making further calls on overall pet damage/durability since players are likely to die a lot sooner)

savacli.8172:

How do you take that on? Either rush the healer fast enough to where he can’t react, or you can find a way to nullify the pets attack (coughprojectilecough) so you can focus more comfortably against the caster.

If the pet is dealing that much damage to you, focus on it, killing it will take it out of the fight for quite some time.

Even with Druid support a pet will die quickly under pressure from anyone with good damage.

If you’re not dealing enough damage due to being on the tanky side of things (in which case they really shouldn’t be a threat) then run, you are ill equiped for that encounter. You can’t have a build that can compete with every single other build out there.

psizone.8437:

savacli.8172:

How do you take that on? Either rush the healer fast enough to where he can’t react, or you can find a way to nullify the pets attack (coughprojectilecough) so you can focus more comfortably against the caster.

If the pet is dealing that much damage to you, focus on it, killing it will take it out of the fight for quite some time.

Even with Druid support a pet will die quickly under pressure from anyone with good damage.

If you’re not dealing enough damage due to being on the tanky side of things (in which case they really shouldn’t be a threat) then run, you are ill equiped for that encounter. You can’t have a build that can compete with every single other build out there.

Oh, I’m strictly a casual PvP player, so I was just talking generically from what I’ve seen in other games where I participated more aggressively in PvP. Nowadays, I tend to favor the Leroy Jenkins tactics since I just do unranked matches to take a break from my usual routine…..did I mention I only have 2 pips in Amber

Even so, I can understand the wisdom in sizing up your opponent. If the encounter is in your favor, great. Otherwise run away to avoid wasting time or play the designated decoy long enough for reinforcements to arrive. If it’s a somewhat even match, and you’ve figured out the blind spots in your opponent? Go for the kill, though be attentive as they may have found your own blinds spots as well.

This is idiotic and still i don’t understand why all the thieves come here to complain. They still think we are the free bags… Understable, with the reaper the necro = free bag stopped working.

Shadelang.3012:

What the bristleback needs isn’t a nerf. It needs the artificial survivability granted to it by bark skin reduced.
…

TLDR; The bristleback itself isn’t OP. It has low enough defensive stats that killing it SHOULD be an option just as all dangerous pets are meant to have (Like cats). However druid synergy with the WK trait bark skin makes that very difficult.
…
Where it SHOULD be possible to break that machine as part of an opposing players strategy.

Id reccomend reworking bark skin to a different mechanic. And putting its defensive functionality on an active utility skill. Such as Guard which has needed a strong rework for a very long time.

This right here is a genuinely good and reasonable idea.

A trait setup like mine, which should be very capable of deleting a pet if focused, is making the pet next to impossible to kill. For some perspective in WvW, my thief has 20k HP (+9k over baseline), 4k power (yes, 4k; I am one of if not the single hardest-hitting thieves in the game) and 241 crit damage, stacked on an additional 65% extra damage modifiers.

And I cannot kill a bristleback before it kills me because of this trait and druid’s synergy with BM. I am well-aware that the strategy against such a ranger/druid should be to kill the pet in this case before the ranger/druid, because swap has a long cooldown and you can’t double-up on the same pet. That said, it’s so difficult to do from this trait, even when pushing stats into complete absurdity, that it makes the pet seem way stronger than it really is. The HoT pets are responsive and offer a solid companion unlike many others. Traits just are pushing their solid damage and utility into absurdity by making killing them or the ranger an ultimatum which leads no really good solution for players that simply can’t eat the F2.

DeceiverX.8361:

snip…
For some perspective in WvW, my thief has 20k HP (+9k over baseline), 4k power (yes, 4k; I am one of if not the single hardest-hitting thieves in the game) and 241 crit damage, stacked on an additional 65% extra damage modifiers.
…snip…

With that stat is virtually impossible for the druid to kill you with just one F2 from the bristle. The spike barrage does 6.2K for itself. With BM does 6.8K.

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

Why is this even a debate or discussion? Someone died in PvP and wants the pet to be nerfed because of it. He came to this forum to kitten. And he freely admits it.

I’m not entertaining anyone based off that criteria. He can take that noise to the PvP forum where it belongs. They like that sort of nonsense there. We mostly consider issues in PvE here since it’s the ranger forum.

Also, keep in mind, our pets are part of our damage. When ANet nerfs Burn Guardians and certain mesmers, anyone can come back here and complain about one pet doing too much burst damage.

Sorry, Midori, we know you’re used to the other pets sucking like mad, but please realize that if you’re losing to a pet, the problem is not the pet.

Please draw another conclusion . . . the correct one.

DeceiverX.8361:

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

Ya that happens when you apparently run base toughness. Shocking as it may be.

Substance E.4852:

DeceiverX.8361:

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

Ya that happens when you apparently run base toughness. Shocking as it may be.

God forbid he get’s Rapidfire’d for even more damage on a shorter cooldown. Nerf that one too please, ranger damage is clearly OP.

coax.2951:

Substance E.4852:

DeceiverX.8361:

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

Ya that happens when you apparently run base toughness. Shocking as it may be.

God forbid he get’s Rapidfire’d for even more damage on a shorter cooldown. Nerf that one too please, ranger damage is clearly OP.

“Because being hit 10 times for 700 damage is much worse than being hit once for 14K from stealth”

That’s higher amount of numbers so it naturally seem more deadly to people who cannot use a calculator.

If any of you complainers actually played a ranger you would understand how dire and needed those two pets are. Yes they do high damage when traited they are supposed to be. Why is it these two pets are such a problem? Well they are are the only pets that can actually hit a moving target. They are the only pets that actually make our low coefficient trade offs worth while for having the pets.

As tragic said, I am well in favor for nerfs to those two pets IF we receive significant coefficient increases on our weapons because frankly right now the only way to burst, or be competitive with the other classes is with these pets.

DeceiverX.8361:

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

You run valk thief
/15 chars

coax.2951:

Substance E.4852:

DeceiverX.8361:

Except it doesn’t. I frequently take 1-2k damage hits per missile in WvW.

Ya that happens when you apparently run base toughness. Shocking as it may be.

God forbid he get’s Rapidfire’d for even more damage on a shorter cooldown. Nerf that one too please, ranger damage is clearly OP.

Lol so we have one skill that has a half decent coefficient and only if we get the full channel same deal with the pet. One skill and a pet. It’s the end of the world. Yet we have classes that have solid skills across their entire kit that are all 2+ coefficients.