Guild Wars 2

Since my previous threat was merged in despite NOT being part of the heal as one threads Ill be remaking this here. Im going to copy past my posts. I strongly reccomend NOT merging this as it is part of a SEPARATE CONVERSATION. Or atleast give me justification as to why it has to be merged.

I was pretty dissapointed when I logged in today and saw the news.
But as things go I would rather use this as an opportunity to draw attention to the other shouts.
Shouts at this time in the game as far as utilities go…are sub par..in every way. shape. and form.
There is ALWAYS a better choice to take in every situation with the possible exception of sic em. This has been known for years.
At the moment NONE of the shouts are used for there intended functionality. Not a single one.
Guard is used to either stealth the pet or spam swiftness/regen. No one uses this to “Have the pet aggresively guard an area”
Protect Me is possibly the worst defensive skill in the game. As using it actually kills our class mechanic entirely. Most people I see slot this do so only for the stun break. And there are better options for this.
Search and Rescue is the worst rez skill in the game. Its the only rez skill that can be killed by down cleave…or even accidental cleave.
Sic Em is used largely for its reveal. Its use is the closest to its original functionality. But even this one is often used improperly due to what comes next.
Ranger Shouts are the ONLY utility set in the entire game that directly over rides its brethren.
Is your pet trying to rez someone or attack someone or taking damage to protect you and you want to help it stay alive? To kitten bad. Guard will cancel sic em/protect me/S&R the second you use it to try and help it.
This is just one example of MULTIPLE interaction flaws in this utility class.
And thats not even the most disruptive part of the shout playstyle that I have worked to master since the release of this game.
Ranger shouts are the only utility type in the entire game that actually discourages you from utilizing your class mechanic. The nature of shouts directly interferes with the use of f1-f4. As any command given to the pet will instantly cancel the order given to it by a shout.
So if you must nerf heal as one. Then please TRY to fix the rest of the shouts to make them work taking for there own sake. Or at least alter there functionality so there not BUTCHERING eachother.

(I will be copying the pieces of my own posts that seem relevant. If you were a part of this conversation please re input your own posts)

If you run guard. Do you use it for its intended functionality. Or to pop boons.

If you run sic em. do you give any other order to your pet for the duration. Because that prevents you from using this skill to its fullest.

If you run protect me. How can you justify a defensive skill that kills our class mechanic and even prevents capture point contribution when its competition SAVES our class mechanic as well as us and doesn’t interfere with capture point contribution.

If you use search and rescue. How often do you find your pet gets interupted/killed while attempting to rez. How often does it succesfully rez something in an area too risky for you to attempt that rez. Does it do it on its own. or with signet of stone or bark skin WITH rampage as one protecting it. How much investment does that rez take compared to other rez skills.

Whether they have there uses or not isn’ t the question here. Are they comporable to there competition for there intended functionality.

I would say no in every single case. There competition is almost ALWAYS better. Frankly. it doesnt matter if in 10% of situations these are better. if in the other 90% there worse.
Ive used these utiltiies for years. I love them. I love using them and working with them as I have played pet focused playstyles in rpgs and mmos since I played a Magician in everquest 1.

I am probably one of the only rangers in the game that has truly used a full complement of shouts in over 80% of there game experience. I know these abilities inside and out as well as any other ranger in this game. That isn’t me bragging. Thats simply how much time ive invested in them.

And yet they have had the same flaws since they were released.

Guard doesn’t even do what it says. You cant trully leave the pet to guard an area. as once you step slightly outside of the standard leash range its attacks disable. Meaning even if an enemy is right next to it attacking it it simply won’t do anything. And if your in leash range and attack something your pet will instantly abandon the area its protecting.

Protect me is flawed as well. The biggest one is pvp related in that it prevents capture point contribution while signet of stone does not.

Some would argue thats alright because of the lower cooldown. However that logic as flawed because signet of stone is superior in every single way except for the stun break.
If the two were equal then the logic of the cooldowns would hold water. as it is now though it does not. Never mind the fact that signet of stone ALLOWS YOUR PET TO KEEP ATTACKING. While protect me does not. Meaning that wihle your backed into a corner you can not use things likes a wolf f2 fear or knockdowns to try and peel for you. if you do the skill will instantly cancel.

Search and rescue is simply terrible. Not only does it inherit the same weakness to poison. It also can be interupted, killed, blocked by terrain, blocked by ground based cc and bugged.

Other heal skills only have to worry about cast time/interuption and line of sight and the nature of poison on the downed.

As I said. Sic em is closest to its original intent in use. But the nature of shouts means that you can’t utilize any other utility skills while this one is active. Or else youl cancel it. That is simply irredeemable.

Fluffball.8307:

Shadelang.3012:

that logic as flawed because signet of stone is superior in every single way except for the stun break.

“SoS is superior in a 2 ways (1 only relevant in PvP and not WvW) while PM is superior in 2 ways” is a better way to put it (and oddly enough, you even listed the 2 ways PM is superior to SoS )

I’ve always maintained PM is a better skill than SoS for a glassy LB. SoS doesn’t get you of of that bonfire or dragon’s breath or nade spam or whatever else is condi-killing you in mere seconds. The stun break on PM can’t be so easily dismissed.

(My response begins here)

Maybe not. But does it outway the passive toughness gain from signet of stone in hte majority of content. Does it outweigh the fact that the pet can still contribute to the fight while it is active. Even peeling for you or finishing off a person in a close fight. Does it outweight TWO sets of invuln. One for you AND your pet instead of no invulns at all but actually a transfer. Meaning as your pet runs back to you it will start taking double damage. Your damage and the damage it takes from cleave. Does it outweigh canceling any other shout utility you had running.

I can’t agree with that.

Edit; funny. seems signet of stone is superior in quite a few more than 2 ways.

Ehecatl.9172:

Sic ‘Em REALLY needs to not cancel when we use F2. That is a huge problem with the skill. If we could activate it and then use F2 for a 40% damage boost to our pet’s primary burst that’d be amazing.

Guard needs a complete overhaul. It doesn’t do what it was meant to do. Maybe if the pet’s next attack after reaching the area was a launch to smacked the enemy off-point it’d see some use on it’s own merits.

(my response begins here)
If guard confined the pet to the aoe circle. Gave it pulsing protection and stealth while inside. Allowed the pet to function outside the leash range. AND either A: Reduced the damage it takes from hostile conditons while on point. or B: Dealt increased damage to any enemy within the circle. It would be useful in those circumstances.

Nicely written post and I 1000% agree. Shouts are pointless. As are a number of skills on the rangers choice list.
Perhaps a shout that provides 12 might stacks to the whole party? like your pet doing it or something. Sure we have our Stalker but come on, guard gets 12 might stacks in 2 seconds (if that) of channeling, ranger gets 5 and we have to take a pet along that does only that.
Alternatively, remove shouts altogether and bring back preparations like what we had in GW1. Those things were the bomb.

I know I butchered these posts and I missed some replies/posts. I didnt feel it was right to copy other peoples initial posts but I strongly encourage remaking/copying yours in or making new ones if you are still interested.

I guess I’ll go ahead and repost suggestions here if this is the thread we’re using.

I would like to see Shouts be a little unique on the Ranger since the pet is integral to our play style and our shouts affect the Ranger and pet rather than allies.

-I would like to see Search and Rescue act as a ground targeted pet teleport that acts as an AoE stun break and applies protection to allies around it.

-I would like to see Protect Me, still function as a stun break, but be changed to have the pet teleport to your location and pulse damage reduction around you(killing your pet is terrible design)

-I would like to see Sic Em remain the same as it is now, but add a second skill in a chain called Strike As One that makes the Ranger teleport to the pet.

-I would like to see Guard cause the Pet to block attacks (1s) for you and the pet.

Here something I posted in another thread to improve Protect me

Change Protect me so that its causes the pet to share all its boons with allies in a 600 radius, usual 5 player limit. This could create an interesting support option where the Ranger could build up boons on the pet using WHaO and other traits/skills and then share them with everybody.
It could also mean they could reduce the cd of Signet of stone as the only reason I can imaigne it is so long is because we have access to two invulns.

This is of course useless now since they gutted WHaO but I still stand by chaging the function of Protect me to both make it a more attractive choice and so we can have a cd redction on SoS, or just reduce the cd anyway.

Thank you all three of you for reposting/commenting. I know its probably annoying to try and restart this thread but I deeply appreciate it. I doubt these will ever be fixed if there not seen. And they wont get the attention they deserve in a kitten ed merged thread.

I have a deep rooted belief ranger can be fixed and if it starts with shouts, so be it. I dont know if you saw shade by I passed this thread along to Roy and he told me he’d take a look.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Thank you for remaking, Shadelang. (And again, I’m sorry for the mis-merging!)

I understand gaile. Im sure it could be confusing and I could have titled it better. I apologize if the tone of my text comes off as rude. However this night has been a bit frustrating for the ranger community >.<

kitten I was typing a pretty detailed thread about Ranger Shouts, PROs, CONs, Balanced Suggestions… Now just as I submit it I see this thread, darn!

Detailed Shouts Balance/Rework

All shouts are explored, there’s comparison with other profession shouts and boon stacking in general

AgitatedFox.5287:

I have a deep rooted belief ranger can be fixed and if it starts with shouts, so be it. I dont know if you saw shade by I passed this thread along to Roy and he told me he’d take a look.

Yes I saw I thanked you for that and I want to thank you again. Thats part of why I freaked out when it was merged. As I feel that would leave it burried under conversations of different subjects entirely. Luckily Gaile explained and ive remade this post here.

ProtoMarcus could you copy your post into this thread? I understand if you dont want to but I feel it would more easily aid conversation.

Here you go! Big text!
_____________________
Ranger shouts are still in a rather bad place. Sure, WHaO and SotP are perfect, but they weren’t shouts initially. ‘Guard!’ is pretty much used for Regen and Swiftness but I guess its somewhat in a good place now. So we have 3 other shouts that have very low usefulness, even with traits and appropriate runes. Here are a few suggestions I’d like some Dev to read just to rethink Ranger Shouts.

First, I’d like to mention that unlike most other shouts, Ranger Shouts are extremely selfish; they offer next to no Team Utility (except when traited… Swift and Regen… Also ‘Search and Rescue’, let’s not even talk about it yet)

The announced change to ‘We Heal as One!’ was very promising, but apparently there was very little testing and it was not balanced but nerfed to the ground.

My first suggestions are for that particular shout,

‘We Heal as One!’

The healing value, the traited regen and swiftness and the CD are perfect.
The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. My suggestion is to tweak the flat durations:

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

I’ll mention it again, Ranger Shouts are very selfish, almost no team utility unlike 87.234% of the other shouts in the game. Warr can have a 100% 25 might upkeep, Guard has a CRAPLOAD of boons (to self AND team), Eles and Engies can stack an enormous amount of boons on self and allies… Rangers have nothing.

ALSO, by using WHaO to copy the boons, the ranger is crippling himself a bit, as it puts its healing skill on cooldown. High Risk, High Reward. It fits.

Now, by balancing the copied boons, this is when we can play with other Ranger Shouts -

‘Guard!’
It’s fine as it is. It is pretty much only used for the Regen+Swift Stacking, and for the pet’s survivability (protection is really nice for the pet)
By tweaking the base durations of the WHaO boon copy, it brings some nice survivability to the ranger aswell. a 4s Protection on the player is fair. With 30% boon duration, that extends to 5.2s of protection. Add ‘Protective Ward’ trait and you have a nice protection uptime.

‘Sic ’Em!’
Oh yeah this one.
First, you ABSOLUTELY need to make it so the effect stays after giving pet orders (F1/F2 etc). I mean really. The ‘Revealed’ effect is a nice touch, but it requires target. But still a nice touch.
Change ‘40% Attack Speed’ to 8s Quickness
That way, the effect stays when giving a pet order, and with WHaO, it’ll give the player some quickness as well.
Add 8s Fury to give some punch to the pet, and again, by giving a boon, the effect wouldn’t be cancelled by giving an order to the pet (and always the WHaO synergy)

‘Protect Me!’
This kills the pet.
Yes, the killing curse the killing shout.
Stun break is nice. Effect is interesting. Killing pet is not fun.
Either Reduce damage dealt to pet by 30-50% for the duration OR

• Add 6s of Protection to the Pet and
• Add 6s of Resistance to the Pet
  More survivability to direct damage and condi damage, and again, with WHaO, some nice survival boons on player.
  Other Suggestions:
• Add 2s taunt towards pet on a small radius – It can become a really nice evasive skill; Stun Break + Taunt from Pet or
• Any CC effect is transfered to the pet for the duration of the Shout – Much like the Shared Anguish Trait, but for like 6s. Again, very evasive skill.

‘Search and Rescue’
I’ve had more precursor drops than players using this shout. (Had zero precursor drop in 3+ years of play)
This one could use a bit of love.

• Lower base CD from 85s to 80s. That’s 68 to 64s traited. A nice uh… Little buff.
• Add 3 stacks of Stability to the Pet for 10s
• Add Aegis to pet for 10s
  This will aid the pet in rushing to the ally without being too much interrupted. I really like this skill’s concept but… Yeah
  And the boon copy from this shout would give some support to the ranger, 1 stack of stab + aegis for a few seconds.
  Other Suggestions:
• Add a 2s Fear from the Pet – Oh man that would be super useful in cancelling stomps and would add more utility to the shout. a 2s Fear on a 80s CD.

‘Strength of the Pack!’
This one is in a solid place.
Maybe change base might from 8s to 10s ?
Change the graphical effect to falling leaves Autumn leaves (yellow, orange, red), it fits the nature theme, maybe!

So yeah.

Ranger Shouts = Selfish compared to other professions’ shouts.
Ranger Shouts = Very very low utility except for 3 (of which 2 weren’t initially shouts)
Ranger Shouts = High Risk, Low Reward. Except the same 3.

In terms of balance, here’s a few notes.

• WARRIORS can mega stack mega might to the entire party. Also Banners. And all the boons. They also get burst heals instead of regen when traited.
• GUARDIANS can mega boon mega everything the entire party. Not only that, but their shout trait converts condis to boons, so even more boons.
• TEMPEST shouts grant a crapload of effects to the party, heals, auras, stun breaks…
• REAPER Shouts have more than just ONE effect, and have converts/corrupts
• RANGER offer next to no team utility unless traited. And even then they are awful. High CD, few effects, they put the pet on standby mode. At least make them useful for the Caster himself?

Thanks for reading!

Thank you very much ProtoMarcus. Im grateful to you for bringing this in.

Thanks Gail. You’re a shining beacon to us all yet again.

@ProtoMarcus I read through what you posted and they seem like much more realistic methods of fixing several of the key issues that shout rangers currently have. And many id like to see implemented barring a full rework (I can’t expect them to put that much effort into shouts when HoT is about to come out. It would be unfair) But these chages would largely make shouts atleast comporable for there own sake and more than just as a swiftness source.

Forgot to mention, all other profession shouts either directly affect the Caster, The party, or Both (typically untraited.)

The ranger shouts is different in that (before WHaO and SotP) they dont really affect the caster, but almost purely the pet, and it puts the pet on standby for most. Unless traited, the only beneficial effect is ‘Protect Me!’ for its stunbreak but it kills the pet 101% of the time.

Also the Sic ‘Em! ’Revealed’ effect was only added later. Interesting concept, but somewhat hard to master as it needs a target. AND the sic ’em effect is removed upon giving order(s) to the pet

Yay, good to have this thread back. Ranger shouts are probably the most lackluster in the game and definitely need help. Spirits too, but I suppose that should be an entirely different thread.

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

About Spirits, lemme find my old super detailed, formatted, clean and clear posts about them ahahaha
But yes, that’s for another (new?) thread

infantrydiv.1620:

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

The ‘kill my pet first then kill me’ idea made me think, Retaliation could be interesting somewhere in there. If the pet is taking the damage but also has retaliation, its a nice counter-play to the foe

infantrydiv.1620:

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

My biggest wish for protect me would be that it no longer prevented the pet from contributing. Also that orders could be given to the pet without canceling it.

In a dream world for me personally. Protect me would look as follows.

Protect Me: Causes the pet to aggressively defend you. Taking 50% of the damage that you would otherwise have taken.

Stun Breaks you and the pet.

You gain protection.

The pet gains resistance. (to facilitate the pet actually defending you. Doesn’t mean anything if its bogged down by condis)

ProtoMarcus.7649:

infantrydiv.1620:

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

The ‘kill my pet first then kill me’ idea made me think, Retaliation could be interesting somewhere in there. If the pet is taking the damage but also has retaliation, its a nice counter-play to the foe

Retaliation isn’t a bad idea. As long as the mechanics of the skill allow retaliation on the pet to trigger on the person hitting the ranger. But it would still be a lackluster skill from the defensive standpoint without some boon support or altered functionality.

Also I’d like to re-suggest a concept I sent a while ago, a concept that would totally benefit from the WHaO boon copy-

Signet of Renewal
Not only does the pet pull all conditions to self, but it converts them to Boons.
And just to clarify, it converts the conditions to boons on the pet only (as it’s the one getting all the condis)

This skill is a LOT like ‘Protect Me!’ as it pretty much kills the pet. Pulls ALL conditoins from NEARBY ALLIES?
Man, Burning now Stacks, Poison now Stacks, Bleeds has super high cap…. It definitely kills the pet.

I understand a workaround is to pop it and then switch pets, but still, its too situational.

By converting condis to boons, and using WHaO, it’ll have a similar effect as Guardian’s ‘Save yourselves!’ but it’ll have to go through 2 skills instead of one.

Shadelang.3012:

infantrydiv.1620:

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

My biggest wish for protect me would be that it no longer prevented the pet from contributing. Also that orders could be given to the pet without canceling it.

In a dream world for me personally. Protect me would look as follows.

Protect Me: Causes the pet to aggressively defend you. Taking 50% of the damage that you would otherwise have taken.

Stun Breaks you and the pet.

You gain protection.

The pet gains resistance. (to facilitate the pet actually defending you. Doesn’t mean anything if its bogged down by condis)

Your suggestion would be fine by me as well. I just don’t like the way the current skill works (preventing capture node contribution AND your pet usually gets destroyed).

infantrydiv.1620:

Shadelang.3012:

infantrydiv.1620:

Both WHaO and RaO are in a good place (with or without the WHaO buff, it’s still an excellent heal that’s good vs burst damage).

Guard needs a different functionality. Protect Me in this meta of things like burn guards and burst comps is just a big red sign saying “Kill my pet and kill me 5 seconds after”. If arenanet wants to focus on Shouts now, please first look at Guard and Protect Me.

Shouts should be pet/ranger oriented, so RaO is a perfect example of that. It powers up both the pet and Ranger.

“Guard” in my opinion should just be entirely reworked: It’s totally outdated and the functionality is minimal. Just give us a new skill.

Protect Me: There are lots of options for this skill now. What I would opt for is both Ranger and pet gain Protection and Resistance. Pet could also have a short taunt added to it.

My biggest wish for protect me would be that it no longer prevented the pet from contributing. Also that orders could be given to the pet without canceling it.

In a dream world for me personally. Protect me would look as follows.

Protect Me: Causes the pet to aggressively defend you. Taking 50% of the damage that you would otherwise have taken.

Stun Breaks you and the pet.

You gain protection.

The pet gains resistance. (to facilitate the pet actually defending you. Doesn’t mean anything if its bogged down by condis)

Your suggestion would be fine by me as well. I just don’t like the way the current skill works (preventing capture node contribution AND your pet usually gets destroyed).

all of that ONTOP of you actually being even weaker DURING the duration because hte pet isn’t even bloody helping you anymore.

I feel we have some decent ideas on protect me. But what about guard. Usually this is considered the most in need of rework. Or atleast tied with search and rescue.

Protos suggestion isn’t bad. But what if it gave resistance to the pet instead of protection? Namely. What if guard became a method of sustaining the pet through condition pressure. It promotes synergy with the wilderness survival grandmaster empathic bond. As well as the signet of renewal. And those conditions can be steadily cleansed off through trooper runes. It also gives heal as one limited anti immoblock capability. Which shouts in general DON’T HAVE AT ALL >.>. If you could copy a couple seconds of resistance over. That can be the difference of being locked down or “swooping” to safety.

Edit: This would also be a MASSIVE step towards making hte pet useable in wvw for zerg fights. As what usually happens is the pet is crippled/immobd in a field of aoes and it can’t get out.. resistance would enable the pet to actually leave the death zone.

I beleive Strenght of the Pack should effect Allies not in regards to timbre but as the core Mechanic .

Classes already have lots of fury and swiftness not to take away from timbres swiftness ect.

but to add some Team utilties make it so when you cast Strenght of the pack the party or 5 players recivive 3 Stability and the SotP pulse internvals if they are close enough acting just like the Natures vengence spirit boons/radius.

it will give players a reason to stack up on a ranger while in active combat to Benifit from the intervals of might/fury/swiftness and the one off Application of stability.

increase the cooldown by all means to 72seconds then when traited it’ll even out at 58seconds.

I almost feel like we should focus on one shout at a time ahahaha

Some what ifs – I’d like feedback

Search and Rescue

• Stealths the pet for 6-8s? _(Kinda redundant with ‘Guard!’ but could be a good way to safely let the pet head to downed ally)
• Applies Taunt towards the PLAYER (so the pet can safely get to destination undisturbed, dangerous for player but nice interrupt/diversion/stomp cancelling)
• Makes the pet knockdown enemies on its way to downed ally? (See: Trampler Centaurs/Stempeding Minotaurs)

Makes me notice; All professions have 1 revive-related skill, except the Revenant! Edit: And thief woops

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I beleive Strenght of the Pack should effect Allies not in regards to timbre but as the core Mechanic .

Classes already have lots of fury and swiftness not to take away from timbres swiftness ect.

but to add some Team utilties make it so when you cast Strenght of the pack the party or 5 players recivive 3 Stability and the SotP pulse internvals if they are close enough acting just like the Natures vengence spirit boons/radius.

it will give players a reason to stack up on a ranger while in active combat to Benifit from the intervals of might/fury/swiftness and the one off Application of stability.

increase the cooldown by all means to 72seconds then when traited it’ll even out at 58seconds.

Hmm how would that change the dynamics for longbow rangers however. Also would boons still pulse on the pet. The increased cooldown may also be detrimental on the pvp side of things. However thats something Id want to test in game before making my decision on that atleast.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

I almost feel like we should focus on one shout at a time ahahaha

Some what ifs – I’d like feedback

Search and Rescue

• Stealths the pet for 6-8s? _(Kinda redundant with ‘Guard!’ but could be a good way to safely let the pet head to downed ally)
• Applies Taunt towards the PLAYER (so the pet can safely get to destination undisturbed, dangerous for player but nice interrupt/diversion/stomp cancelling)
• Makes the pet knockdown enemies on its way to downed ally? (See: Trampler Centaurs/Stempeding Minotaurs)

Makes me notice; All professions have 1 revive-related skill, except the Revenant! Edit: And thief woops

The idea of the pet trampling players otw to the downed foe is interesting. Could be useful to interupt stomps. And if it taunted foes when it got TO the player it would make it a very powerful stomp denial tool. I don’t know about the stealth. I feel that should stay the stability that was mentioned earlier. As that affect is already duplicateable as you said with guard.

However. Adding hard CC like that to a shout makes me cringe a little bit. Im not certain how I feel about it. Especially when its as specific as this one is. However its very situational. S&R will fail to activate if there isnt a downed player nearby .So it could end up balanced through the rarity of its use. I have a feeling that would be a PITA to design though.

’Sic ’Em

Although now that I think of it just before typing it makes me think its pretty much Quickening Zephyr…

• 10s Quickness
• 10s SuperSpeed
• 8s Reveal (change from the old 6s)

…Yeah. Pet-Centric Quickening Zephyr with Reveal.

Alt Suggestions:

• Next 5 Pet hits apply Torment?
• Pet gains Fury?
• Next 5 Pet hits heals the pet?

ProtoMarcus.7649:

’Sic ’Em

Although now that I think of it just before typing it makes me think its pretty much Quickening Zephyr…

• 10s Quickness
• 10s SuperSpeed
• 8s Reveal (change from the old 6s)

…Yeah. Pet-Centric Quickening Zephyr with Reveal.

Alt Suggestions:

• Next 5 Pet hits apply Torment?
• Pet gains Fury?
• Next 5 Pet hits heals the pet?

For the alt suggestions. The pet gaining opening strike with each attack for the duration?

Edit: Id like to see pet based fury and might on this utility skill. Largely because fury and might dont dissapear when you swap targets. And if were going to try to make shouts a boon based utility. it would work better than this wierd psuedo/normally accidentally canceled/boon it has now.

Opening strike is limited to the Marksmanship line though, and that would be CRAZY vulnerability -

Oh, pet applies vuln per hit for the next 10s / next 5 attacks?

Shadelang.3012:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I beleive Strenght of the Pack should effect Allies not in regards to timbre but as the core Mechanic .

Classes already have lots of fury and swiftness not to take away from timbres swiftness ect.

but to add some Team utilties make it so when you cast Strenght of the pack the party or 5 players recivive 3 Stability and the SotP pulse internvals if they are close enough acting just like the Natures vengence spirit boons/radius.

it will give players a reason to stack up on a ranger while in active combat to Benifit from the intervals of might/fury/swiftness and the one off Application of stability.

increase the cooldown by all means to 72seconds then when traited it’ll even out at 58seconds.

Hmm how would that change the dynamics for longbow rangers however. Also would boons still pulse on the pet. The increased cooldown may also be detrimental on the pvp side of things. However thats something Id want to test in game before making my decision on that atleast.

I’d say no since if it did Pulse from pet + ranger from having both pulse would again Scale boons too high, so only Ranger or Pet.

i’d say pet does the Pulse AoE that will work well with HaO + fortifying bond too even alone will work well , ether way Longbow rangers are not loosing out on anything they will still gain the current Sotp benifits.

its just a Straight up QoL addition for some team utility in a stability form or a focal point to converge on also gives a reason for ranger to be in a group for more than just spotter and frost.
but as its a strong boon so i don’t think a extra 10seconds of cooldown will effect the class in Pvp that much.

the pet pulses will provide:

Might
swiftness
Fury
Stability
(timbre traited adds)
swiftness
Regen

if using a LB use HaO to draw all those boons from the pet at the front lines, i’d think LB users don’t have any issues.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Opening strike is limited to the Marksmanship line though, and that would be CRAZY vulnerability -

Oh, pet applies vuln per hit for the next 10s / next 5 attacks?

Thats what I was thinking. Add some might onto that and the pet can actually set up for some decent damage.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Shadelang.3012:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I beleive Strenght of the Pack should effect Allies not in regards to timbre but as the core Mechanic .

Classes already have lots of fury and swiftness not to take away from timbres swiftness ect.

but to add some Team utilties make it so when you cast Strenght of the pack the party or 5 players recivive 3 Stability and the SotP pulse internvals if they are close enough acting just like the Natures vengence spirit boons/radius.

it will give players a reason to stack up on a ranger while in active combat to Benifit from the intervals of might/fury/swiftness and the one off Application of stability.

increase the cooldown by all means to 72seconds then when traited it’ll even out at 58seconds.

Hmm how would that change the dynamics for longbow rangers however. Also would boons still pulse on the pet. The increased cooldown may also be detrimental on the pvp side of things. However thats something Id want to test in game before making my decision on that atleast.

I’d say no since if it did Pulse from pet + ranger from having both pulse would again Scale boons too high, so only Ranger or Pet.

i’d say pet does the Pulse AoE that will work well with HaO + fortifying bond too even alone will work well , ether way Longbow rangers are not loosing out on anything they will still gain the current Sotp benifits.

its just a Straight up QoL addition for some team utility in a stability form or a focal point to converge on also gives a reason for ranger to be in a group for more than just spotter and frost.
but as its a strong boon so i don’t think a extra 10seconds of cooldown will effect the class in Pvp that much.

Haha youd be suprised how many times i barely survive fighting an engi or a lolpage warrior thanks to its current cooldown. I was more concerned that atleast as far as pvp/wvw goes your rarely close enough to other players in a power build for them to benefit from the stab. It would involve going melee. Which is near suicidal in a power based shout build. It would be doable for a condi build however.

Little Observation:

All Ranger Main-hand and Dual Handed Weapons have at least one skill that also applies an affect/skill to the pet

Except Staff as Druid. Is it by design or was it forgotten?

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Little Observation:

All Ranger Main-hand and Dual Handed Weapons have at least one skill that also applies an affect/skill to the pet

Except Staff as Druid. Is it by design or was it forgotten?

Its a bit off topic. But I feel that hte healing it gives will also benefit the pet. so in a sense it still has synergy. But as far as boon creation goes. Yes your right.

Druid is mega heal/support but zero boon

Wonder how it’ll play,

I really feel WHaO will need toe flat duration buffed for that effect… No boons at all if I’m not mistaken!

Gaile Gray.6029:

And this is a fantastic thread. Constructive, detailed, thoughtful, well expressed.

Thank you all.

Thank you for helping us remake it. It would have been alot harder without you helping to recconect everyone.

Alright. I have to head out for a bit. But ill try to reply to any new posts as soon as I get back. For anyone reading this. PLEASE put for your opinions. Theres no such thing as a truly bad suggestion. Unfeasable maybe. But even those can lead to new ideas. Id really like to see these utiltiies become something REAL.

The biggest issues with shouts is that 2 of them rely on pets, a very broken mechanic. The others is that they are either niche or don’t do enough over existing stuff or there is better options. Fix pets then worry about shouts.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Little Observation:

All Ranger Main-hand and Dual Handed Weapons have at least one skill that also applies an affect/skill to the pet

Except Staff as Druid. Is it by design or was it forgotten?

As long as the heals actually work on pets, I’d say that aspect is covered .