Guild Wars 2

Shadelang.3012:

If you run guard. Do you use it for its intended functionality. Or to pop boons.

If you run sic em. do you give any other order to your pet for the duration. Because that prevents you from using this skill to its fullest.

If you run protect me. How can you justify a defensive skill that kills our class mechanic and even prevents capture point contribution when its competition SAVES our class mechanic as well as us and doesn’t interfere with capture point contribution.

If you use search and rescue. How often do you find your pet gets interupted/killed while attempting to rez. How often does it succesfully rez something in an area too risky for you to attempt that rez. Does it do it on its own. or with signet of stone or bark skin WITH rampage as one protecting it. How much investment does that rez take compared to other rez skills.

• Guard: I don’t use Guard as I don’t usually run shout builds. I’m not overly fond of its functionality, due to the pet often simply attacking targets that happen to be near the pet’s path of travel to the Guard location.
• Sic Em: I use it for revealed. I feel the damage/move buff is largely negated by the pet’s poor pathing and animation rooting. Also, because the damage/move buff is easily removed by accident.
• Protect Me: I don’t think I can justify taking this over any other stun break or SoS. Not only does it tend to nuke your pet, the pet is actually doing no damage while it is active. Not to mention it is range limited, as far as I know. So if your pet gets rooted and you run more than like 600 away, the effect breaks. Mostly because it nukes the pet, and being able to pet swap without the 1 min penalty is a pretty important thing.
• Search and Rescue: I don’t use it. The last time I ever used it was back when Fractals were new and S&R could rez dead players. I’ve always felt it had poor rez speed (this might have changed since then). I also dislike that it potentially gets my pet nuked. For a non-guaranteed rez skill (that also requires a living pet on activation), I’ve always felt the cooldown to be too long to bother with.

I’d love to see shouts from GW1 similar to Strike as One, Otyugh’s Cry, Predatory Bond, and/or Call of Protection, added to GW2. Those shouts actually helped your pet. SaO is probably my favorite ranger shout from GW1, though. I thought, and still think, the functionality of it was/is great.

Shadelang.3012:

I feel we have some decent ideas on protect me. But what about guard. Usually this is considered the most in need of rework. Or atleast tied with search and rescue.

Protos suggestion isn’t bad. But what if it gave resistance to the pet instead of protection? Namely. What if guard became a method of sustaining the pet through condition pressure. It promotes synergy with the wilderness survival grandmaster empathic bond. As well as the signet of renewal. And those conditions can be steadily cleansed off through trooper runes. It also gives heal as one limited anti immoblock capability. Which shouts in general DON’T HAVE AT ALL >.>. If you could copy a couple seconds of resistance over. That can be the difference of being locked down or “swooping” to safety.

Edit: This would also be a MASSIVE step towards making hte pet useable in wvw for zerg fights. As what usually happens is the pet is crippled/immobd in a field of aoes and it can’t get out.. resistance would enable the pet to actually leave the death zone.

In its current state, Guard is just kind of silly… Yeah the pet gets stealth and protection, but why would you need this skill? What if Guard revealed stealthed enemies in the area, I mean that’s what a guard dog is supposed to do right? This would be AMAZING on shadow refuge’d downed bodies and could actually be used somewhat well in wvw roaming as well.

infantrydiv.1620:

Shadelang.3012:

I feel we have some decent ideas on protect me. But what about guard. Usually this is considered the most in need of rework. Or atleast tied with search and rescue.

Protos suggestion isn’t bad. But what if it gave resistance to the pet instead of protection? Namely. What if guard became a method of sustaining the pet through condition pressure. It promotes synergy with the wilderness survival grandmaster empathic bond. As well as the signet of renewal. And those conditions can be steadily cleansed off through trooper runes. It also gives heal as one limited anti immoblock capability. Which shouts in general DON’T HAVE AT ALL >.>. If you could copy a couple seconds of resistance over. That can be the difference of being locked down or “swooping” to safety.

Edit: This would also be a MASSIVE step towards making hte pet useable in wvw for zerg fights. As what usually happens is the pet is crippled/immobd in a field of aoes and it can’t get out.. resistance would enable the pet to actually leave the death zone.

In its current state, Guard is just kind of silly… Yeah the pet gets stealth and protection, but why would you need this skill? What if Guard revealed stealthed enemies in the area, I mean that’s what a guard dog is supposed to do right? This would be AMAZING on shadow refuge’d downed bodies and could actually be used somewhat well in wvw roaming as well.

I just remembered, about 6 months or even a year ago i cannot remember, there was exact discussion on ranger’s shouts. your idea was precisely what was suggested along with instead of Guard, Sic’em getting that ability. Well, you can see how well that feedback was received.

I still feel Guard should be an area denial skill. You don’t send your pet to guard an area to get boons. That doesn’t make thematic sense.

Having the pet run to the area and then perform a launch or knockback on an enemy in the area would make a lot more sense. Have the pet knock enemies off the point while the ranger captures it so a beastmaster shout build can fill the role of a decapper would be interesting.

I’ve always felt like ranger shouts should function like the GW1 Beastmastery skills where you command your pet to perform an attack, allowing the pet to perform control effects/interrupts.

Whatever is done to Guard it SHOULD NOT be used as a way to crank out protection. A utility skill deserves to have more interesting functionality than that, and we already have Stone Spirit to produce that boon in large quantity for us.

Ehecatl.9172:

I still feel Guard should be an area denial skill. You don’t send your pet to guard an area to get boons. That doesn’t make thematic sense.

Having the pet run to the area and then perform a launch or knockback on an enemy in the area would make a lot more sense. Have the pet knock enemies off the point while the ranger captures it so a beastmaster shout build can fill the role of a decapper would be interesting.

I’ve always felt like ranger shouts should function like the GW1 Beastmastery skills where you command your pet to perform an attack, allowing the pet to perform control effects/interrupts.

Whatever is done to Guard it SHOULD NOT be used as a way to crank out protection. A utility skill deserves to have more interesting functionality than that, and we already have Stone Spirit to produce that boon in large quantity for us.

Im semi back so ill go ahead and put my thoughts in. I agree guard should be area denial. It feels like that was the design. However at the same time the pet needs to be able to survive in order to deny that area. The idea of a cc while the pet is attacking of some kind. Or a damage boost to the pet while hes in that area. Is something.

How about when an enemy enters the area he gets a warning on his debuff bar called “Hunted” that reads: While in this area the creature hunting you deals increased damage. If the creature hits you from behind you are crippled for 5 seconds.

The damage increase would be 15-20%. This debuff with dissapear the second the player leaves the “guarded” area.

This would make guard a decent ambush skill. Enabling the pet to punish players that enter an area. While giving it a soft CC capability that would work well with predators onslaught.

^
I like area denial on Guard. Cool concept to have the pet do more damage in an area and say knockdown enemies who try to cross into the area or something.

Mcrocha.3891:

^
I like area denial on Guard. Cool concept to have the pet do more damage in an area and say knockdown enemies who try to cross into the area or something.

I feel a knockback would be far too powerful. Especially on a skill with a low cooldown. However. A soft cc like cripple won’t spell instant death. But it WILL have the potential of further increasing your destructive power with synergy to traits like predator’s onslaught.

Shadelang.3012:

Im semi back so ill go ahead and put my thoughts in. I agree guard should be area denial. It feels like that was the design. However at the same time the pet needs to be able to survive in order to deny that area. The idea of a cc while the pet is attacking of some kind. Or a damage boost to the pet while hes in that area. Is something.

How about when an enemy enters the area he gets a warning on his debuff bar called “Hunted” that reads: While in this area the creature hunting you deals increased damage. If the creature hits you from behind you are crippled for 5 seconds.

The damage increase would be 15-20%. This debuff with dissapear the second the player leaves the “guarded” area.

This would make guard a decent ambush skill. Enabling the pet to punish players that enter an area. While giving it a soft CC capability that would work well with predators onslaught.

That would be an interesting use. Especially if the pet remained stealthed while attacking similar to the panther’s F2 stealth. It’d make going into the protected area a real danger because you don’t know what kind of pet is waiting for you or where the attack will come from.

The duration would have to be more though. Make it like a trap that you lay down and wait for an enemy to step into it. Maybe let the pet remain perma stealthed (For up to five minutes like a trap) until an enemy enters the area. Stealth will go on a 6 second timer once the pet is in combat.

Shadelang.3012:

Mcrocha.3891:

^
I like area denial on Guard. Cool concept to have the pet do more damage in an area and say knockdown enemies who try to cross into the area or something.

I feel a knockback would be far too powerful. Especially on a skill with a low cooldown. However. A soft cc like cripple won’t spell instant death. But it WILL have the potential of further increasing your destructive power with synergy to traits like predator’s onslaught.

That’s true I didn’t think of the cd on Guard. Good point. But cripple is just not very strong, unless it was like a 6+second cripple. I feel like knockdown could be ok if it could only occur once.

Shadelang.3012:

This would also be a MASSIVE step towards making hte pet useable in wvw for zerg fights. As what usually happens is the pet is crippled/immobd in a field of aoes and it can’t get out.. resistance would enable the pet to actually leave the death zone.

For large scale fights, this isn’t true in the slightest. Pets don’t simply get bogged down in soft cc – they instantly blow up from AoEs, they don’t last long enough to die from condis – and resistance wouldn’t do anything to prevent the pet from being hard cc’d to death, which is exactly what happens to players, let alone pets. To avoid having your pet in the thick of it you can use LB and pick targets that stray too far from the bulk of the herd, but zergs, like a flock of birds, change course quickly, and it’s been my experience that using a melee pet to pick off stragglers will still result in a quick death. Ranged pets have never fared much better; players have to change position quickly to avoid damage – pets, ranged or melee, simply can’t do that.

Some of these shout rework ideas sound nice for sPvP, but I think it’s delusional to think any of this will do much to alter pet survivability in large scale encounters.

For WHaO boon copy they should have used Fortifying bond boon durations and not cap the might stack duration. Jesus, the skill is again worthless. Sadly, such heavy handed approach is not something i support and I will not participate in a discussion that will not be heard or listened to.

GL guys, I hope you make something happen.

xev.9476:

Shadelang.3012:

This would also be a MASSIVE step towards making hte pet useable in wvw for zerg fights. As what usually happens is the pet is crippled/immobd in a field of aoes and it can’t get out.. resistance would enable the pet to actually leave the death zone.

For large scale fights, this isn’t true in the slightest. Pets don’t simply get bogged down in soft cc – they instantly blow up from AoEs, they don’t last long enough to die from condis – and resistance wouldn’t do anything to prevent the pet from being hard cc’d to death, which is exactly what happens to players, let alone pets. To avoid having your pet in the thick of it you can use LB and pick targets that stray too far from the bulk of the herd, but zergs, like a flock of birds, change course quickly, and it’s been my experience that using a melee pet to pick off stragglers will still result in a quick death. Ranged pets have never fared much better; players have to change position quickly to avoid damage – pets, ranged or melee, simply can’t do that.

Some of these shout rework ideas sound nice for sPvP, but I think it’s delusional to think any of this will do much to alter pet survivability in large scale encounters.

Honestly? In WvW zerg fight scenario, pets will NEVER become useful in offensive capabilities. With druid spec, fern hound and F2 heal however, they MAY have some support capabilities. That is if you keep your pet right next to you and you stay out of enemy fire at all time, or at least, most of the time.

I always thought all the shouts having a clear role, except Guard.

Sic ’Em=dps
SnR=support
Protect Me=defense

So where does Guard fit in?

In my opinion it should take the role of CC. It should punish foes that enter the area guarded by the pet. Maybe add a stun to the pets first attack while guarding. I wouldn’t oppose a CD increase in favor of a stun.

Also in a game with high mobility combat Guard feels lacking. You don’t really want to lock your pet in to a single location. Increasing the radius could help with this problem. I can’t come up with anything better at the moment (just woke up heh).

Guys. I hate to say it but this isn’t the thread to discuss the Heal As One Change in depth. In order to lower the risk of this thread being merged I ask that you stay on the topic of the shout utility skills. Specifically the original four shouts and ways to improve them.

Shadelang.3012:

If you run guard. Do you use it for its intended functionality. Or to pop boons.

If you run sic em. do you give any other order to your pet for the duration. Because that prevents you from using this skill to its fullest.

If you run protect me. How can you justify a defensive skill that kills our class mechanic and even prevents capture point contribution when its competition SAVES our class mechanic as well as us and doesn’t interfere with capture point contribution.

If you use search and rescue. How often do you find your pet gets interupted/killed while attempting to rez. How often does it succesfully rez something in an area too risky for you to attempt that rez. Does it do it on its own. or with signet of stone or bark skin WITH rampage as one protecting it. How much investment does that rez take compared to other rez skills.

I am a roamer and WvWer, it’s the only thing i do in the game for 3 years.

1.) Guard never left my bar, it’s like LR, i just can do anything without it. I use it for the boons and the fonctions. The boons are on a short CD so it’s very useful against classes who can remove, steal, rip or corrupt. It’s my only source of mobility. The stealth for the pet is great and have good sinergy with Hunter’s Shot. Protection help with pet survivability and the command makes the pet management slightly easier.

2.) Sic em is not one of my primary skills, but since i have both survivals and shouts traited, i sometimes slot it when there are too much mesmers and thieves in the area.

3.) I don’t use it, i know that it doesn’t work very well but even if it could i wouldn’t use it, i don’t use any kind of invu skills, not my playstyle.

4.) I never use it. I love my class, but revive a mate is too important to be tied to the AI. Period.

I use SOTP very often, for stab ofc and cuz of the lyssa runes from my build. I never use WEAO, TO is way better to me. If i use several shouts i don’t have any problem in the chain of orders. It’s L2P issue.

borya.2964:

Shadelang.3012:

If you run guard. Do you use it for its intended functionality. Or to pop boons.

If you run sic em. do you give any other order to your pet for the duration. Because that prevents you from using this skill to its fullest.

If you run protect me. How can you justify a defensive skill that kills our class mechanic and even prevents capture point contribution when its competition SAVES our class mechanic as well as us and doesn’t interfere with capture point contribution.

If you use search and rescue. How often do you find your pet gets interupted/killed while attempting to rez. How often does it succesfully rez something in an area too risky for you to attempt that rez. Does it do it on its own. or with signet of stone or bark skin WITH rampage as one protecting it. How much investment does that rez take compared to other rez skills.

I am a roamer and WvWer, it’s the only thing i do in the game for 3 years.

1.) Guard never left my bar, it’s like LR, i just can do anything without it. I use it for the boons and the fonctions. The boons are on a short CD so it’s very useful against classes who can remove, steal, rip or corrupt. It’s my only source of mobility. The stealth for the pet is great and have good sinergy with Hunter’s Shot. Protection help with pet survivability and the command makes the pet management slightly easier.

2.) Sic em is not one of my primary skills, but since i have both survivals and shouts traited, i sometimes slot it when there are too much mesmers and thieves in the area.

3.) I don’t use it, i know that it doesn’t work very well but even if it could i wouldn’t use it, i don’t use any kind of invu skills, not my playstyle.

4.) I never use it. I love my class, but revive a mate is too important to be tied to the AI. Period.

I use SOTP very often, for stab ofc and cuz of the lyssa runes from my build. I never use WEAO, TO is way better to me. If i use several shouts i don’t have any problem in the chain of orders. It’s L2P issue.

So you use guard for its boons. Not for the stated functionality of actually have the pet guard an area.

You use sic em for the reveal. But not for its nature as a pursuit skill.

Despite not knowing from first hand you understand that protect me is sub par.

You also agree that S&R is unreliable.

All four of those are the issues this thread is attempting to fix. To alter the core four shouts in such a way that they are worth using for there own sake. And not for additional functionality that is tacked on as an afterthought.

There nature of canceling eachother can be worked around. After using a full compliment of shouts since release I know this by heart. However. Why are they the only utility in the game that acts this way. Why is this functionality necessary on already sub par mechanics.

Alright. going to sleep for now. Ill attempt to address any posts when I wake up.

Quick idea for a change to “Search and Rescue”. Just very off-the-cuff thinking so take it or leave it as your whim but -

- Could be renamed “Save or Slay” or “Heal or Hunt” or “Cure or Consume” or “Revive or Devour”

- Premise would be to change it to a targeted skill that would call the pet to either revive a downed ally very rapidly or finish a downed play very rapidly

- Pet would gain quickness, stability and increased movement speed.

- If reviving: pet gains protection

- If finishing: pet gains fury and/or might

i agree that the way pet shouts break when you command the pet to do something else is incredibly annoying and has gotten me killed on numerous occasions. Utility skills shouldn’t just break like that, the slots are too valuable. I want to use Protect Me but its just subpar compared to Signet of Stone.

I like the ideas about area denial for Guard. The skill needs something more than what it’s doing currently. And no, I don’t even consider the traits that can trigger on shouts – skills needs to be good on their own.

I also support the idea of adding taunt to Protect Me.

As for Search and Rescue, it’s simply bad. If it weren’t for the crazy long cd, it could possibly see some use, but for now, noone uses it. It they want the cd to remain, the skill needs something more, maybe a secondary use other than reviving. Also, the skill shouldn’t go on cooldown until succesful revival.

It is quite simple yet very complicated. They need to redo at least 3 out of the 6 shouts.

WHaO:
- just remove or increase the might copy cap. Boon duration is fine

Guard:
- allies in the AOE take 15% reduced damage, like the name Guard would suggest

Sick em:
- reduced CD from 40s to 30s. Instead of the unique buff, the pet gains super speed and it hits remove a boon per hit for the duration.

Protect me:
- instead of sacrificing the pet, the shout will give you and your pet 4s of protection, stability and resistance. Reduced CD to 50s.

Search and rescue:
- it will either rally an ally or stomp a foe

Chokolata.1870:

Search and rescue:
- it will either rally an ally or stomp a foe

PvP use only, not sure about that.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Chokolata.1870:

Search and rescue:
- it will either rally an ally or stomp a foe

PvP use only, not sure about that.

It has the same functionality it does now except it has the added effect of downing enemies which is the only pvp only part(I believe there are foes you can down in pve as well though)

Mcrocha.3891:

I believe there are foes you can down in pve as well though

There are some, yes.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love for my pet being able to ‘stomp’ enemies in pvp!

Alright so I’ve been running a shout build for a few hours this morning in PvP, and I have some ideas how to improve them. (as they are, they really are awful)

Guard: This needs a longer stealth duration (like at least 30s, making it act as a kind of trap)

Allow the pets to be able to capture capture points. This is kind of the biggest one I feel. If we could use Guard! to place a pet on a capture point and then run to help, say, mid, we could effectively be attacking two places at once (or defending). In Chess, we call this forking and it could really bring in a new level of dynamic play.

It also needs longer protection duration on the pet (20s for example). Because of how crap the pet mechanic is and how quickly it dies, it needs this extra time just to allow it to cause a threat while on the pet (can’t be one shotted out the way and dealt with) You could also give it retaliation to make it that much more of a cheese play.

Don’t make the pet teleport back to you when you get a certain distance away. This kills the skill straight up. The pet should be able to camp on a spot no matter how far away you are.

Protect Me: Shorter recharge (30s at most)

Allow pet to still attack

Instead of invulnerability, make it give like 15s or protection, regen and retaliation to both Ranger and pet.

Remove the fact that it also prevents point capture. This gives it no synergy with my guard idea otherwise.

AgitatedFox.5287:

Alright so I’ve been running a shout build for a few hours this morning in PvP, and I have some ideas how to improve them. (as they are, they really are awful)

Guard: This needs a longer stealth duration (like at least 30s, making it act as a kind of trap)

Allow the pets to be able to capture capture points. This is kind of the biggest one I feel. If we could use Guard! to place a pet on a capture point and then run to help, say, mid, we could effectively be attacking two places at once (or defending). In Chess, we call this forking and it could really bring in a new level of dynamic play.

It also needs longer protection duration on the pet (20s for example). Because of how crap the pet mechanic is and how quickly it dies, it needs this extra time just to allow it to cause a threat while on the pet (can’t be one shotted out the way and dealt with) You could also give it retaliation to make it that much more of a cheese play.

Don’t make the pet teleport back to you when you get a certain distance away. This kills the skill straight up. The pet should be able to camp on a spot no matter how far away you are.

Protect Me: Shorter recharge (30s at most)

Allow pet to still attack

Instead of invulnerability, make it give like 15s or protection, regen and retaliation to both Ranger and pet.

Remove the fact that it also prevents point capture. This gives it no synergy with my guard idea otherwise.

Pets capping points? Are you serious? No leash? Those things were implemented because pets were absurd without them or being able to do them. You could run 5 Rangers and effectively have 10 players to cap nodes then, enemy players would have to go and de-cap pets, which could then just be swapped and placed back on the point, in stealth no less. Back to the drawing board with that idea tyvm. You’d have Ranger teams placing 3 bears on far, 2 on close and then all 5 Rangers could stack mid.

with protect me, the tradeoff is just bad. Not only does your pet not attack, but it receives no protective buffs to compensate for it., so it dies instantly and you lose dps, not only for the 6 seconds, but aafterwards as well

if the pet isnt attacking, it should receive Protection and Resistance for the duration

Guard just isn’t used for the “guard the area” effect. Getting stealth and protection is ok I guess, but it needs more, like Retaliation maybe. Not seeing the source of why you are getting hit with retaliation is kinda cool, plus you could steal the retal with WHaO

I like the quickness/fury idea posted about Sic-em.

Personally I feel like Guard should just be removed and replaced by a more selfish, low CD shout that is of greater benefit to the ranger

Search and rescue

• needs reduced CD
• pet needs to get stability
• revive the player10% faster
• revice them with a defensive boon (aegis, vigor, protection, whatever)

Shadelang.3012:

(I will be copying the pieces of my own posts that seem relevant. If you were a part of this conversation please re input your own posts)

If you run guard. Do you use it for its intended functionality. Or to pop boons.

If you run sic em. do you give any other order to your pet for the duration. Because that prevents you from using this skill to its fullest.

If you run protect me. How can you justify a defensive skill that kills our class mechanic and even prevents capture point contribution when its competition SAVES our class mechanic as well as us and doesn’t interfere with capture point contribution.

If you use search and rescue. How often do you find your pet gets interupted/killed while attempting to rez. How often does it succesfully rez something in an area too risky for you to attempt that rez. Does it do it on its own. or with signet of stone or bark skin WITH rampage as one protecting it. How much investment does that rez take compared to other rez skills.

For Guard i’ll often use it more to position my pet + stealth it when i’m actually fighting, so when combat starts it’s actually one i wont spam, additionally I use it if i need my pet to just attack anything and everything in the area IE turn it on aggressive without wasting time clicking it from passive. It gives me overall more control over my pet which is nice, but i would not say i’d ever run this ability if i wasn’t using a shout build.

For Sic’Em i feel like it’s an overall good utility skill, it gives our pet a huge damage steroid and allows them to stick to the target easier, the Reveal being tacked on just is an added bonus and is amazing at training down a target who stealths, or if their allies could stealth them.

I like Protect Me! significantly more than i like signet of stone for a variety of reasons, first and foremost, it’s a stun break, that alone gives it an advantage. Secondly, if i’m playing with a guardian (one of my friends mains one) both me and my pet will have retal which causes the enemy to take double retal damage everytime they attack me while protect me is active, if they cleave me and my pet they’re taking the hit 3 times instead. Additionally, I tend to run a brown bear for the condi removal and the beefyness (this may change to a pig after the changes, still yet to be determined) and a fernhound, both of which are quite tanky pets and have absolutely 0 issue survivng the 6 seconds. Thirdly, Protect Me! has a significantly shorter CD than signet of stone Protect me is a 60s CD, SoS is an 80s CD, so i’ll be “invuln” far more often than if i used sig of stone, and neither of my pets have issues surviving anyway.

HOWEVER, if i were not running BM, or with tankier pets (god forbid i run a bird or cat) then Protect Me! would be absolutely unusable and a completely garbage utility. I feel like Protect Me! has the same issue all our utilities had pre rework, it requires too much investment for it to be useable for the range class as a whole.

Lastly, for Search and Rescue, the #1 reason this was nerfed in PvP in the first place is once you call it, until you give your pet another command nothing will stop it from rezzing that ally but death to the ally itself. If your pet is launched 600yds away he’ll pick his jolly kitten up and run back to that ally and begin to rez again just like Lick Wounds. If you kill the pet, he will continue to rez the ally, albeit slower. The only thing that will stop the pet is the ally dying. In PvE this generally is all you need if you want a rez skill, throw your pet in to rez your ally, you may end up trading your pets life for your allies, but about half the time that’s probably the better call since you can just pet swap. In PvP the pet rezzes a lot slower than other rez skills (they pick them up instantly), so you have the risk of someone spiking your ally, but your pet is probably closer to your ally than you are, so he can start rezzing to pull them out of the “being cleaved down” danger zone, and you can CC a stomper, maybe two depending on your build and begin to assist. I’d say now that they unsmiters booned this skill it’s very solid, granted underused due to the meta in both PvP and PvE.

EDIT: I just want to clarify, i do not think any shout other than Sic’Em and maybe Search and Rescue, shouldn’t get a rework, they desperately need one, and even Sic’Em should allow you to cast your other abilities without removing the buff your pet gets, although i do think it should still be a single target ability, not just a pet steroid for 10s.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

AgitatedFox.5287:

Alright so I’ve been running a shout build for a few hours this morning in PvP, and I have some ideas how to improve them. (as they are, they really are awful)

Guard: This needs a longer stealth duration (like at least 30s, making it act as a kind of trap)

Allow the pets to be able to capture capture points. This is kind of the biggest one I feel. If we could use Guard! to place a pet on a capture point and then run to help, say, mid, we could effectively be attacking two places at once (or defending). In Chess, we call this forking and it could really bring in a new level of dynamic play.

It also needs longer protection duration on the pet (20s for example). Because of how crap the pet mechanic is and how quickly it dies, it needs this extra time just to allow it to cause a threat while on the pet (can’t be one shotted out the way and dealt with) You could also give it retaliation to make it that much more of a cheese play.

Don’t make the pet teleport back to you when you get a certain distance away. This kills the skill straight up. The pet should be able to camp on a spot no matter how far away you are.

Protect Me: Shorter recharge (30s at most)

Allow pet to still attack

Instead of invulnerability, make it give like 15s or protection, regen and retaliation to both Ranger and pet.

Remove the fact that it also prevents point capture. This gives it no synergy with my guard idea otherwise.

Pets capping points? Are you serious? No leash? Those things were implemented because pets were absurd without them or being able to do them. You could run 5 Rangers and effectively have 10 players to cap nodes then, enemy players would have to go and de-cap pets, which could then just be swapped and placed back on the point, in stealth no less. Back to the drawing board with that idea tyvm. You’d have Ranger teams placing 3 bears on far, 2 on close and then all 5 Rangers could stack mid.

How would you suggest leashing them then in that regard? don’t throw the idea out the window because it first seems OP.

Alright. Came back and read the new posts so im going to post my thoughts.

1: It seems people agree that guard needs to do SOMETHING in its area. Whether that be making the pet more dangerous to enemies inside it (The "Hunted’ concept I put forth earlier is an example of this.) or do something to protect allies in the area (I feel this would actually be too strong for its cooldown unless this is a damage transfer like protect me but in an aoe….which would royally kitten me off if that got implemented…Pretty much drakes and bears are the only pets you could use with guard for its functionality in that case)

So either an aoe support or aoe control aspect for those actively standing in the affect of guard. Likely to be shown on there debuff/buff bar

Protect me it seems those here for the most part agree this could use a rework. As its affects largely aren’t worth the tradeoff of having an inactive pet that is also downing cyanide pills.

Some argue that the lower cooldown and stunbreak warrant the less effective defensive measures. However I would argue that there should be away to make this defensive skill not potentially more harmful than helpful when your not running a bear.

Id put forth the concept of a 50/50 transfer between the ranger and his pet with boon support on the ranger and pet for the duration that would NOT interfere with the pets attack patterns. But there are also other good suggestions for reworks in this thread.

S&R Being largely ineffective due to the off chance your pet can get back and start rezzing an ally after being interrupted before that ally dies just doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to leave it as a largely ineffectual rez skill. I almost feel that this should just become a trait only and something else put in its place. Its fine as an adept trait. Not as a utility skill.

Sic Em I think we can agree is the most “functional” of our current shouts. Though if we were able to swap targets without canceling it I feel it would go a long way towards making it more useful.

EDIT: I still STRONGLY believe that guard (and only guard) should allow the pet to function outside of the leash range as long as its inside the aoe of the guard skill. That way it could actually be used to hinder enemies that come from a certain location for a short time.

I heard long ago, rangers could use Guard to send pets up towers and stuff in WvW. Was this removed for a reason? Because being able to teleport a pet somewhere would be insanely useful and I might start using it just to instantly position my pet on a ledge or place I wouldn’t be able to access.

They wouldn’t even have to change the leash range.

bloodpyrope.8630:

I heard long ago, rangers could use Guard to send pets up towers and stuff in WvW. Was this removed for a reason? Because being able to teleport a pet somewhere would be insanely useful and I might start using it just to instantly position my pet on a ledge or place I wouldn’t be able to access.

They wouldn’t even have to change the leash range.

That was changed a very long time ago. And yes. It was kittening hilarious and brokenly over powered. While it made for some of the funniest youtube videos. Many were glad to see it go.

Using guard to bypass the leash range would not cause it to teleport from my current understanding of its mechanics. Of so. Then thats something that would have to be fixed together with it.

I used search and rescue quite a bit when you could still rez dead people (not downed, dead). Since the changes I have yet to use it, same with healing spring.

Shadelang.3012:

bloodpyrope.8630:

I heard long ago, rangers could use Guard to send pets up towers and stuff in WvW. Was this removed for a reason? Because being able to teleport a pet somewhere would be insanely useful and I might start using it just to instantly position my pet on a ledge or place I wouldn’t be able to access.

They wouldn’t even have to change the leash range.

That was changed a very long time ago. And yes. It was kittening hilarious and brokenly over powered. While it made for some of the funniest youtube videos. Many were glad to see it go.

Using guard to bypass the leash range would not cause it to teleport from my current understanding of its mechanics. Of so. Then thats something that would have to be fixed together with it.

So I wasn’t around then, but why was it insanely OP? From what I know, mesmers can summon their phantasms up towers to attack siege. Sure pets have more health than phantasms, but unless people start running all ranger zergs and teleporting pets up towers to stop defenders, I can’t imagine a situation where it’d break the game (but maybe I just have poor imagination).

I just think a shout that’s already ground targeted and involves sending a pet somewhere could be reworked to teleport the pet instead. I can think of a few situations where that’d be useful. Teleport pet on a ledge where enemy rangers are shooting, teleport pet to ledge that a downed thief just went to, etc.

Neither the leash range nor the ability to send them up on walls was insanely OP. The leash range had some bugs in it that would allow a pet to be out of combat state while still attacking, and the ranger could also be out of combat while the pet was in combat because of it. They could’ve fixed the bugs. The extreme leash reduction was a bit over the top imho. I still find myself hitting F1 to attack things but being out of range. It’s annoying to this day!

Hi, Irenio.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

When are you going to fix pets?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

Would really like to get some sort of feedback about pre-HoT pet efficacy. They currently have numerous problems they keep the ranger from being a useful part of the game.

Alot of the player seems very happy with the new HoT pets, i am also, but why can;t we get serious fixes for our pets we currently have ?

Ai pathing (fences, cliffs). Boss fight AoE insta death. Lack of decent accuracy (pets miss tons). Pets cannot attack on the move.

Just a few problems, i think i missed loads more.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

Irenio you have returned!

Kitty.1502:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

When are you going to fix pets?

…and we wonder why devs avoid commenting where they immediately get comments about things that don’t relate to the thread.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Kitty.1502:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

When are you going to fix pets?

…and we wonder why devs avoid commenting where they immediately get comments about things that don’t relate to the thread.

Because they don’t answer them in a thread when it does relate to pets.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

Glad to know, but how about you go one step further and TALK with us?

Instead of commenting here “yes we read what you say” why don’t you instead join in with this thread and offer suggestions which we can talk about? Communication is how things get done.

PS. we love you Irenio

To be honest the only two shouts I’ve used are Sic em and S&R pre-nerf. After got nerfed to only red downed and not dead it got regulated to uselessness to me, so it doesn’t see my bar. Sic’em I use for the very nice DPS buff. Since I only play PVE and mostly Fractals at that, there’s no need for gaurd… Honestly I can’t even remember if there’s another shout in the… SotP I use because all the other elites are just bad and not worth it. Entangle is good for Grawl Shaman transformed…. Or ooze in Arah. I hadn’t used WHaO in Gods know how long… Years? I don’t know. It’s just always been right near the bottom of choices. Before I had to choose between TU or HS, but since the trap change HS is not worth it. WHaO was a 3rd shout on my bar (sometimes) for a day. It was nice. But, shouts in general have just been ultra mega bad for my DPS Ranger except for Sic Em and SotP.

What would make me use shouts in PVE again, you ask?

WHaO: uncap the might stacking and limit durations to something useful like 10 seconds minimum.
Guard: add 600 unit aoe 5 player + protection + resistance for 5sec
Protect Me: add protection + swiftness for 5 sec minimum
Search and Rescue: revert the nerf so it resses defeated players

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

Can someone explains what the last part means? pre-WHAO and SotP, before Sept 29th?

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

We are, indeed, reading.

We particularly take time to read the constructive and well-crafted feedback posts.

I don’t want to make promises, which as many of you have pointed out can go horribly awry for a variety of reasons, but we are hoping to make some changes to the old ranger shouts (pre-WHAO & SotP).

Can someone explains what the last part means? pre-WHAO and SotP, before Sept 29th?

Presuming he means Guard, Sic ’Em, Protect me and Search and Rescue.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Shadelang.3012:

bloodpyrope.8630:

I heard long ago, rangers could use Guard to send pets up towers and stuff in WvW. Was this removed for a reason? Because being able to teleport a pet somewhere would be insanely useful and I might start using it just to instantly position my pet on a ledge or place I wouldn’t be able to access.

They wouldn’t even have to change the leash range.

That was changed a very long time ago. And yes. It was kittening hilarious and brokenly over powered. While it made for some of the funniest youtube videos. Many were glad to see it go.

Using guard to bypass the leash range would not cause it to teleport from my current understanding of its mechanics. Of so. Then thats something that would have to be fixed together with it.

So I wasn’t around then, but why was it insanely OP? From what I know, mesmers can summon their phantasms up towers to attack siege. Sure pets have more health than phantasms, but unless people start running all ranger zergs and teleporting pets up towers to stop defenders, I can’t imagine a situation where it’d break the game (but maybe I just have poor imagination).

I just think a shout that’s already ground targeted and involves sending a pet somewhere could be reworked to teleport the pet instead. I can think of a few situations where that’d be useful. Teleport pet on a ledge where enemy rangers are shooting, teleport pet to ledge that a downed thief just went to, etc.

I believe the reasoning was that pets could be used to take out siege that should have been otherwise safe from damage and thus not fair to defenders.

Mcrocha.3891:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Shadelang.3012:

bloodpyrope.8630:

I heard long ago, rangers could use Guard to send pets up towers and stuff in WvW. Was this removed for a reason? Because being able to teleport a pet somewhere would be insanely useful and I might start using it just to instantly position my pet on a ledge or place I wouldn’t be able to access.

They wouldn’t even have to change the leash range.

That was changed a very long time ago. And yes. It was kittening hilarious and brokenly over powered. While it made for some of the funniest youtube videos. Many were glad to see it go.

Using guard to bypass the leash range would not cause it to teleport from my current understanding of its mechanics. Of so. Then thats something that would have to be fixed together with it.

So I wasn’t around then, but why was it insanely OP? From what I know, mesmers can summon their phantasms up towers to attack siege. Sure pets have more health than phantasms, but unless people start running all ranger zergs and teleporting pets up towers to stop defenders, I can’t imagine a situation where it’d break the game (but maybe I just have poor imagination).

I just think a shout that’s already ground targeted and involves sending a pet somewhere could be reworked to teleport the pet instead. I can think of a few situations where that’d be useful. Teleport pet on a ledge where enemy rangers are shooting, teleport pet to ledge that a downed thief just went to, etc.

I believe the reasoning was that pets could be used to take out siege that should have been otherwise safe from damage and thus not fair to defenders.

You could also use Signet of the wild. Sic em. and guard with a stealthed jaguar to kill 6-7 defenders before they even realized what was happening.

On the topic of Search and Rescue. What if it was reworked to be a ground targted ability that hte pet would run into an area and pulse out aoe healing. That healing would have a similar affect to a weaker version of transfusion on the downed. But it would also affect those still standing.

Shadelang.3012:

On the topic of Search and Rescue. What if it was reworked to be a ground targted ability that hte pet would run into an area and pulse out aoe healing. That healing would have a similar affect to a weaker version of transfusion on the downed. But it would also affect those still standing.

That sounds good.