Guild Wars 2

Hey all. Some of you might know me from my original shout rework threat located here. Edit: Also the proposal is at the end underneath the caps if you don’t care about the reasoning.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Shout-UTILITY-thread-remade/first

To make the back story short. I have played shout ranger since the beginning of the game. And feel that I have pushed its limits as far as it can go as far as skill and mechanical knowledge is concerned. What I mean by shout ranger is a full utility bar of shouts. Typically (atm) Heal as one, Guard, Protect me, Sic em, and Strength of the Pack (in there current forms).

In my previous thread I attempted to gather suggestions on how to rework shouts to be more relevant to the game. As most shouts simply didn’t do anything significant.

Shortly after that post Sic Em was altered in a way that vastly improved its usability. Fixing an issue that has prevented it from being a reliable skill since the start of the game. I know its likely a coincidence but I still like to think I had something to do with it (let me have my ego PLEASE >.<).

So what are shout utilities. To put it simply ranger shout utilties are commands that are meant to enhance an aspect of the pet or give it access to a new capability for a short period of time.

Guard gives the pet protection and stealths the pet.

Protect me causes the pet to take damage for you for a short time.

Sic Em enhances the pets movement speed and causes it to deal more damage.

Search and Rescue causees the pet to attempt to heal a nearby downed ally.

So whats the problem?

To put it simply. In most aspects of the game shouts don’t do ENOUGH. Or the pet isn’t capable of doing enough with that shout.

A bear with sic em is just as pointless for dealing damage as a bear without sic em.

Who cares if the moa is stealthed.

That bird isn’t going to rez kitten if there is down cleave unless your holding its hand (I am looking at you bark skin).

Protect me is largely worthless if your using a cat since it does true damage (unmitigatable by any method).

What this means is that in there original forms. Shout utilties only seem to work with specific pets to significant results.

(A stealthed canine has a very good chance of landing its leap)

(A Bear can rez for days or soak damage from protect me for almost the full duration before dieing)

(Birds and cats benefit ALOT from sic em)

This creates an issue when attempting to utilize the shout utilities to there fullest. Because you have to be very careful in what pets you chose take. In my experience canines are typically your best bet. There decent general pets that can benefit from each aspect of shouts.

However even ontop of that there are further issues with the mechanics of the skills themselves.

Guard can’t actually be used to defend locations any better than you acting as a turret with a longbow can. This skill did its job fine before the Leash range change early in the games history. But ever since that change. The leash range is so small the pet will actually become permanently passive even if an enemy is standing right ontop of it if you leave it on a point to check another location.

Protect Me is inherently harmful to use. It causes the pet to take “true damage” that you would have taken. What I mean by this is the damage it takes is unmitigated by your armor. Its armor. Any boons either of you have. Or even traits such as bark skin.

Also due to the nature of combat its actually quite rare for anything besides a ranged pet to be sitting at high enough health to make use of it propperly. Usually in order to use it safely your forced to pet swap and THEN use it.

To make matters worse. The pet actually deactivates and turns passive while this is up. And attempting to utilize it in any way will cancel the effect. This means you can’t use that wolf fear to try to peal for you. Or try to get it to knock the guy hitting you down. Or else you leave yourself open to all the damage when your probably low on health. Meaning that when you use protect me. Its a gamble that the pet taking damage for you is more beneficial to you then having the pet continue attacking. Im sure you can all imagine how having a large chunk of your damage suddenly stop working can be a bad thing.

Search and Rescue is inherently bad as a utility. But its very good as a trait. Like the above 2 it causes the pet to become passive and run towards a downed body near YOU (not its always near you and not the pet). What this means is that in order for you to use this skill you have to already be where there is very likely a large amount of cleave in order to trigger the skill. This puts you at risk before you have even used it.
As the pet reaches the downed ally it is very likely it will be subjected to levels of aoe that the vast majority of our pets simply can’t survive. Whether its a champion mordrem snipers fire line. Or a mesmers gravity well combined with a revenants condi cleave.

Also the pet has no means on its own to resist CCs. So all the downcleave thats going on will not only kill the pet. But also prevent it from functioning at all unless you burn a cooldown to cover it in stabiltiy.

This ability works fine as a trait. As it occurs automatically when you rez. And you don’t have to sacrifice anything or take any EXTRA risks in order to make it work.

Sic Em is our best example of a well designed shout. As it has two aspects of use to it. You can use it to boost your pets speed and damage. Or you can use it to apply reveal to a target. Making the skill potentially useful no matter what pet you have taken.

REWORK CONCEPT BEGINS HERE. IF YOU SKIPPED THE ABOVE THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART

My current proposal will be to add that duel functionality to the other 3 shout utilities. Giving them a wider range of purely situational uses that will help loosen the restriction on pet choices for each shout while still retaining there core functionality.

Guard. What I would do with this utility is add a mechanic that causes the pets BASIC attack to strip one boon per hit with a 2 second ICD as long as the pet is withing the targeted area.

This will allow pets to pressure enemies within there range of influence not through raw damage but through a secondary effect that goes within the line of “Punishing enemies that enter this area”. Whether that be a necro losing swiftness to a stealthed pet that was blocking the road and taking a little longer to reaching his destination.
Or stripping protection from a tempest that is attempting to take the point the pet is overwatching.

Protect Me: For this skill I would have this skill grant 3 seconds of resistance to the ranger and the pet. Making it an effective “break away” skill. Where you break your stun and you have a short time to escape. This also allows the pet to break free of any engagement its caught in and retreat to your side. So you can more easily command it to fight whatever has attacked you.

Search and Rescue: I would have this skill pulse stability in the affected area while it is rezzing your ally as the pet attempts to further bolster your allies. This enables the pet to perform the role of rezzing. While still leaving it susceptible to heavy down cleave. But it also helps protect allies that are attempting to assist in the rez. Or attempting to shut down the enemy down cleave. Which further reinforces the pets ability to perform its job.

If you have any comments, Ideas, Objections or the like please feel free to post. My previous post only got where it did due to community feedback on the subject. I would like this to be the same.

Didnt read it all,wall of text.So i agree only with guard and SaR should get some buff.Protect me,is a solid util,maybe a weird shout,but overall a good choice for a stunbreak role,at least if u dont have druid and the super lovely daze glyph.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Didnt read it all,wall of text.So i agree only with guard and SaR should get some buff.Protect me,is a solid util,maybe a weird shout,but overall a good choice for a stunbreak role,at least if u dont have druid and the super lovely daze glyph.

I can’t agree with on protect me. But this is something that caused disagreement in my previous thread as well.

My reasoning on the matter is that it is a damage TRANSFER (note not an invuln) that stun breaks. But simultaneously shuts down your damage by approximately 30-40% for 6 seconds. Possibly longer if the pet dies. It also deprives you of your pets control aspects. Which I am sure you can agree are a bit part of our disengage.

When you think about it. It doesn’t own up to the skills it could be compared to. Either lightning reflexes (our other prominent stunbreak that can also grant fury and remove condis while EVADING attacks entirely. Making it a superior defensive choice) or SoS (which is a physical damage invulnerability for both you and the pet just lacking the stun break).

Edit: It also has 0 synergy with the other shouts. As it CAN’T be used in conjuction with them. Unlike signet of stone which can be combined with signet of the wild to create a “safe” burst phase for both you AND the pet.

I think Search and Rescue would still be meh with the stab. I think it should fully revive allies like other revive utilities. Make the pet cast some skill that has a similar cast time to other skills like 3 or 4s. That way it can be rupted, but also would synergize well with SotP.

Guard is ok I guess.

Is the rework of Protect Me! on top of what it already does? Or does the resistance replace the damage transfer?

Mcrocha.3891:

I think Search and Rescue would still be meh with the stab. I think it should fully revive allies like other revive utilities. Make the pet cast some skill that has a similar cast time to other skills like 3 or 4s. That way it can be rupted, but also would synergize well with SotP.

Guard is ok I guess.

Is the rework of Protect Me! on top of what it already does? Or does the resistance replace the damage transfer?

I feel the rework of protect me should be on top of what it already does. This skill doesn’t reduce the damage you take in any way shape or form. Simply forces it onto your other half. My goal would be to enable you to actually use protect me to get away. Unlike signet of stone which is more of a “were gonna keep fighting” kind of skill.

The reworked protect me would enable you to disengage.

It also doesn’t move you or produce evade frames like L.R. so the attacks will still be landing and conditions will still be applied. It also means that the resistance can be stripped. Leaving the skill with plenty of counterplay.

If it were to NOT continue to have the damage transfer. Then it would absolutely HAVE to be reworked so that the pet is no longer passive for the duration. As you will then have 0 methods of mitigating physical damage at all from the utility ontop of losing complete control of your pet.

Edit: As for S&R I could see it if the pet gained a break bar while attempting to cast. But it have a VERY obvious glow surrounding it during the cast. Making it easy to see. The skill would also have to be targetable.

Ideas that most of people liked, so far.

• Protect Me: You and your pet get retaliation. Attackers against you will get taunted for 2 seconds by your pet (3 sec ICD). 6 sec duration. 60 sec CD. Stun Break.
• Search & Rescue: Your pet seeks the closest downed ally, pulls him to you and helps you revive him. 60 sec CD.
• Guard: Your pet will instantly blink onto the 1st enemy entering the area, applying conditions (some of these: cripple/weakness/vulnerability/root). Your pet gains protection. 15sec CD
• Sick’Em: Your pet’s attacks ignore block and blink him to his target from up to 400 range, pet gains Quickness and reveals the target for 6 seconds. 40 second cooldown.

Most are immense QoL improvements that will keep their current use as well as add interesting effects without much balance changes. For example Protect me would serve the same purpose of self-defense but with utility instead of damage transfer (that is toxic) and naturally – we already have a superior version of damage negation – Signet of Stone.
For Sick’Em – basically any improvement that makes the pet hit the enemy on the move (even similar to smokescale’s assault) would work.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Ideas that most of people liked, so far.

• Protect Me: You and your pet get retaliation. Attackers against you will get taunted for 2 seconds by your pet (3 sec ICD). 6 sec duration. 60 sec CD. Stun Break.
• Search & Rescue: Your pet seeks the closest downed ally, pulls him to you and helps you revive him. 60 sec CD.
• Guard: Your pet will instantly blink onto the 1st enemy entering the area, applying conditions (some of these: cripple/weakness/vulnerability/root). Your pet gains protection. 15sec CD
• Sick’Em: Your pet’s attacks ignore block and blink him to his target from up to 400 range, pet gains Quickness and reveals the target for 6 seconds. 40 second cooldown.

Most are immense QoL improvements that will keep their current use as well as add interesting effects without much balance changes. For example Protect me would serve the same purpose of self-defense but with utility instead of damage transfer (that is toxic) and naturally – we already have a superior version of damage negation – Signet of Stone.
For Sick’Em – basically any improvement that makes the pet hit the enemy on the move (even similar to smokescale’s assault) would work.

@ Tragic Your ideas are interesting. Theres just a few questions I have.

For your version of guard. Would that be a repeating effect or a simple one and done deal. Does the teleporting attack deal damage. Does it have some kind of telegraph showing it will be teleporting.

Your idea for protect me is interesting. It loses effectiveness massively however against classes with stability. How would you see this skill working in the current meta? Where nearly every dominant build has very easy access to stab. Also how would this affect PvE? I feel like this could be rather over powered in some situations. Not to mention its effect in WvW.

S&R is cool. Though I can see issues where people start to rez after you sent the pet to the target. But your pet was slowed by soft/hard CCs on the way there. And then starts moving the body as there attempting to rez. Would this version simply fail to work? Leaving the rezzing to your allies and wasting your cooldown. Or should it interrupt there rezzing to attempt to bring it to you.

Sic Em Does this mean that it loses the 40% damage increase and movement speed? That will hurt ranged pets quite a bit. Causing this show to massively favor melee pets.

Shadelang.3012:

Mcrocha.3891:

I think Search and Rescue would still be meh with the stab. I think it should fully revive allies like other revive utilities. Make the pet cast some skill that has a similar cast time to other skills like 3 or 4s. That way it can be rupted, but also would synergize well with SotP.

Guard is ok I guess.

Is the rework of Protect Me! on top of what it already does? Or does the resistance replace the damage transfer?

I feel the rework of protect me should be on top of what it already does. This skill doesn’t reduce the damage you take in any way shape or form. Simply forces it onto your other half. My goal would be to enable you to actually use protect me to get away. Unlike signet of stone which is more of a “were gonna keep fighting” kind of skill.

The reworked protect me would enable you to disengage.

It also doesn’t move you or produce evade frames like L.R. so the attacks will still be landing and conditions will still be applied. It also means that the resistance can be stripped. Leaving the skill with plenty of counterplay.

If it were to NOT continue to have the damage transfer. Then it would absolutely HAVE to be reworked so that the pet is no longer passive for the duration. As you will then have 0 methods of mitigating physical damage at all from the utility ontop of losing complete control of your pet.

Edit: As for S&R I could see it if the pet gained a break bar while attempting to cast. But it have a VERY obvious glow surrounding it during the cast. Making it easy to see. The skill would also have to be targetable.

Ye I was just asking if it would have the damage and resistance, bc I wouldn’t want it to only have the resistance. I think anything is good really because any skill that kills our own class mechanic is bad. Same thing with Empathic Bond.

I was thinking like a howl/screech/roar kind of thing for PM. But yeah obviously would need a big tell. Alternatively, I would be fine with it having nothing to do with revives as Spirit of Nature already does that too. Maybe something with shadow stepping and swapping places with the pet.

Mcrocha.3891:

Shadelang.3012:

Mcrocha.3891:

I think Search and Rescue would still be meh with the stab. I think it should fully revive allies like other revive utilities. Make the pet cast some skill that has a similar cast time to other skills like 3 or 4s. That way it can be rupted, but also would synergize well with SotP.

Guard is ok I guess.

Is the rework of Protect Me! on top of what it already does? Or does the resistance replace the damage transfer?

I feel the rework of protect me should be on top of what it already does. This skill doesn’t reduce the damage you take in any way shape or form. Simply forces it onto your other half. My goal would be to enable you to actually use protect me to get away. Unlike signet of stone which is more of a “were gonna keep fighting” kind of skill.

The reworked protect me would enable you to disengage.

It also doesn’t move you or produce evade frames like L.R. so the attacks will still be landing and conditions will still be applied. It also means that the resistance can be stripped. Leaving the skill with plenty of counterplay.

If it were to NOT continue to have the damage transfer. Then it would absolutely HAVE to be reworked so that the pet is no longer passive for the duration. As you will then have 0 methods of mitigating physical damage at all from the utility ontop of losing complete control of your pet.

Edit: As for S&R I could see it if the pet gained a break bar while attempting to cast. But it have a VERY obvious glow surrounding it during the cast. Making it easy to see. The skill would also have to be targetable.

Ye I was just asking if it would have the damage and resistance, bc I wouldn’t want it to only have the resistance. I think anything is good really because any skill that kills our own class mechanic is bad. Same thing with Empathic Bond.

I was thinking like a howl/screech/roar kind of thing for PM. But yeah obviously would need a big tell. Alternatively, I would be fine with it having nothing to do with revives as Spirit of Nature already does that too. Maybe something with shadow stepping and swapping places with the pet.

Aye. Unfortanetly those seem to be heavy reworks that would involve creating entirely new skills just with the same name. I am not sure if thats possible at this stage in the game. I find it more likely they would do that with a future elite spec instead.

Shadelang.3012:

@ Tragic Your ideas are interesting. Theres just a few questions I have.

For your version of guard. Would that be a repeating effect or a simple one and done deal. Does the teleporting attack deal damage. Does it have some kind of telegraph showing it will be teleporting.

A single target single effect utility. Basically in order to keep the cooldown low but make it a useful BM-bunker trait. Like it’s obviously meant to be.
The effect would be instant (similar to Thief’s Shadow Shot).

Shadelang.3012:

Your idea for protect me is interesting. It loses effectiveness massively however against classes with stability. How would you see this skill working in the current meta? Where nearly every dominant build has very easy access to stab. Also how would this affect PvE? I feel like this could be rather over powered in some situations. Not to mention its effect in WvW.

It’s not like it is supposed to have zero counter-play. And pet-taunting is a mechanic that is quite unique and defining for our pet-ranger archetype.
Also, I don’t believe it’s gonna end up overpowered in PvE. No one would ever pick the taunting utility into competitive scene and it has a considerable CD to consider it picking for open world content. When it comes to WvW – the effect is no different from Ele’s shocking Aura. No reason for it to be overpowered.

Shadelang.3012:

S&R is cool. Though I can see issues where people start to rez after you sent the pet to the target. But your pet was slowed by soft/hard CCs on the way there. And then starts moving the body as there attempting to rez. Would this version simply fail to work? Leaving the rezzing to your allies and wasting your cooldown. Or should it interrupt there rezzing to attempt to bring it to you.

This is a good question. I was thinking of starting to pull the body, and if he is hard CCed or rooted, he’ll be forced into the reviving command.
I believe having the pull forced regardless of whether is anyone ressing him or not is a good idea. It would promote awareness. Plus saving the ally from people stomping just as those trying to revive is more user-friendly then asking 3 people to stop reviving because you are going to save the guy from stomps.
Methinks.

Shadelang.3012:

Sic Em Does this mean that it loses the 40% damage increase and movement speed? That will hurt ranged pets quite a bit. Causing this show to massively favor melee pets.

That is partly the idea. Currently the Ranged pets offer less damage but safer pattern especially against moving ones. The 400 range limiter is there to prevent long-ranged pets from needless teleportation (but helping in case of LoS chasing) but would drastically favor melee pets that are in absolutely horrible spot against moving targets.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Shadelang.3012:

@ Tragic Your ideas are interesting. Theres just a few questions I have.

For your version of guard. Would that be a repeating effect or a simple one and done deal. Does the teleporting attack deal damage. Does it have some kind of telegraph showing it will be teleporting.

A single target single effect utility. Basically in order to keep the cooldown low but make it a useful BM-bunker trait. Like it’s obviously meant to be.
The effect would be instant (similar to Thief’s Shadow Shot).

Shadelang.3012:

Your idea for protect me is interesting. It loses effectiveness massively however against classes with stability. How would you see this skill working in the current meta? Where nearly every dominant build has very easy access to stab. Also how would this affect PvE? I feel like this could be rather over powered in some situations. Not to mention its effect in WvW.

It’s not like it is supposed to have zero counter-play. And pet-taunting is a mechanic that is quite unique and defining for our pet-ranger archetype.
Also, I don’t believe it’s gonna end up overpowered in PvE. No one would ever pick the taunting utility into competitive scene and it has a considerable CD to consider it picking for open world content. When it comes to WvW – the effect is no different from Ele’s shocking Aura. No reason for it to be overpowered.

Shadelang.3012:

S&R is cool. Though I can see issues where people start to rez after you sent the pet to the target. But your pet was slowed by soft/hard CCs on the way there. And then starts moving the body as there attempting to rez. Would this version simply fail to work? Leaving the rezzing to your allies and wasting your cooldown. Or should it interrupt there rezzing to attempt to bring it to you.

This is a good question. I was thinking of starting to pull the body, and if he is hard CCed or rooted, he’ll be forced into the reviving command.
I believe having the pull forced regardless of whether is anyone ressing him or not is a good idea. It would promote awareness. Plus saving the ally from people stomping just as those trying to revive is more user-friendly then asking 3 people to stop reviving because you are going to save the guy from stomps.
Methinks.

Shadelang.3012:

Sic Em Does this mean that it loses the 40% damage increase and movement speed? That will hurt ranged pets quite a bit. Causing this show to massively favor melee pets.

That is partly the idea. Currently the Ranged pets offer less damage but safer pattern especially against moving ones. The 400 range limiter is there to prevent long-ranged pets from needless teleportation (but helping in case of LoS chasing) but would drastically favor melee pets that are in absolutely horrible spot against moving targets.

Second question on Sic Em. From the way you described it it makes it sound like each attack would cause it to teleport for 6 seconds. Or atleast it would need ot be for it to be useful.

However from what I understnad it would need to have quite a number of exceptions built into to work.

It would have to do absolutely nothing if your using a ranged pet. Which kind of hurts my affection for the skill. Cause if the ranged pet was in 400 range. It would start teleporting CLOSER to the target. Which would end badly for our ranged pets.

Having the pets abilities be unblockable for a time is interesting. On that note atleast it would be good for ranged pets as there attacks would be able to pierce reflects.

I feel it would take alot of work to keep it from bugging. As alot of pet skill animations and mechanics would need to be taken into account. But the concept itself is cool.

@Shadelang.3012
We can dream about a radical changes to shouts utilities(we have been for a long time now). In the meanwhile, have you checked the build I posted for on the pvp forum(not the druid one, the GS/LB with shouts). I checked it, and it actually works quite well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTnUqAtCi1CCOsActgBMhyX8F4x/boBq4eZHgAok7kG-TpBFwACOEAMuAAF3fYxDAoaZAAHBAA

Your original shout play style got massive buffs with HOT. you can now stack might, F2 won’t cancel sic’em anymore. you can first) you can combo Sic’em with smoke assualt. This build is tankyest zerker build you can find, great survivability, CC defence and condi defence.
As second pet you need another tanky pet that can take the punishment of protect me and EB. Try out red moa (for the fury uptime).

LughLongArm.5460:

@Shadelang.3012
We can dream about a radical changes to shouts utilities(we have been for a long time now). In the meanwhile, have you checked the build I posted for on the pvp forum(not the druid one, the GS/LB with shouts). I checked it, and it actually works quite well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTnUqAtCi1CCOsActgBMhyX8F4x/boBq4eZHgAok7kG-TpBFwACOEAMuAAF3fYxDAoaZAAHBAA

Your original shout play style got massive buffs with HOT. you can now stack might, F2 won’t cancel sic’em anymore. you can first) you can combo Sic’em with smoke assualt. This build is tankyest zerker build you can find, great survivability, CC defence and condi defence.
As second pet you need another tanky pet that can take the punishment of protect me and EB. Try out red moa (for the fury uptime).

My long typed reply was canceled. So I am gonna do this short and sweet.

First. I have tried a build similar to yours. It has several major flaws.

1. It has NO damage. With 0 damage multipliers for yourself from either traits or runes your build will be flat out ignored by tempests, revenants, and scrappers. Scrappers especially you will deal more damage to yourself from retaliation hitting them than youl deal. I know this for a fact. As I have seen it happen. Your build expects the pet to carry you through fights. That isn’t going to happen outside of the lowest level of MMR

2. The idea of bringing a moa of any kind into pvp (or anywhere) is a HORRIBLE idea. It does almost no damage. It does no control. The fury it provides is something you would have permanent uptime with if you took marksmanship. Your saying to devote an entire 15 seconds in combat that you will be doing so little damage that ANY of hte current elite specs will out heal you if played even slightly well.

3. Since we have established you don’t deal significant enough damage to be a threat. All you can be is a CC bot. Except that since your only stability is behind 48 second cooldown and can easily be corrupted by a signet necro to fear chain you over and over again while others beat on you. It means you can’t be a bunker in team fights either. So your confined to side nodes. Where you won’t be able to kill the person fighting you unless there running one of the old builds. Especially not if there a tempest where you simply won’t be dealing damage to them. Or a chrono which has no problem CCing and Interupting your attempts to recover. Also you don’t have enough CCs to be a CC bot.

Second. I managed to get past the slump. So I would appreciate not trying to use my post in another thread to derail this one.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTnUqA9Ci1CCuCCctgh9gyD+iI53bPAO7POOinuknlG-TpBFABCcIAEvMgDXAgS2fYhHAAAHBAA

I would recommend trying this. You will actually be able to kill people if you learn how to use it. Unless there a tempest /shrug but a power ranger wont be killing those unless you get lucky with CC or go druid for CA5.

That also in no way changes the fact that the CORE SHOUT UTILITIES WHICH THIS THREAD IS DESIGNED FOR. Are lacking with the exception of sic em.

I am not talking about Heal as one here. I am not talking about Strength of the pack. Those are both fine as they are. Hell heal as one is our strongest heal skill.

I am refering to Guard, Protect Me, And search and rescue in this thread. Three of our core shout utiltiies with are Buggy (guard), Prevents the use of our class mechanic and even can KILL that class mechanic (protect me), or simply not worth putting on your bar except as a TRAIT (you can guess).

Edit: Also on your build. You talked about how good heal as one was for coppying boons. But you only have ONE source for offensive boons. So you are not making use of it at all. Also your moa isn’t going to be doing anything with those boons even if had them. Meaning hello 15 second down time for the enemy to do kitten well whatever they want to you.

Shadelang.3012:

LughLongArm.5460:

@Shadelang.3012
We can dream about a radical changes to shouts utilities(we have been for a long time now). In the meanwhile, have you checked the build I posted for on the pvp forum(not the druid one, the GS/LB with shouts). I checked it, and it actually works quite well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTnUqAtCi1CCOsActgBMhyX8F4x/boBq4eZHgAok7kG-TpBFwACOEAMuAAF3fYxDAoaZAAHBAA

Your original shout play style got massive buffs with HOT. you can now stack might, F2 won’t cancel sic’em anymore. you can first) you can combo Sic’em with smoke assualt. This build is tankyest zerker build you can find, great survivability, CC defence and condi defence.
As second pet you need another tanky pet that can take the punishment of protect me and EB. Try out red moa (for the fury uptime).

My long typed reply was canceled. So I am gonna do this short and sweet.

First. I have tried a build similar to yours. It has several major flaws.

1. It has NO damage. With 0 damage multipliers for yourself from either traits or runes your build will be flat out ignored by tempests, revenants, and scrappers. Scrappers especially you will deal more damage to yourself from retaliation hitting them than youl deal. I know this for a fact. As I have seen it happen. Your build expects the pet to carry you through fights. That isn’t going to happen outside of the lowest level of MMR

2. The idea of bringing a moa of any kind into pvp (or anywhere) is a HORRIBLE idea. It does almost no damage. It does no control. The fury it provides is something you would have permanent uptime with if you took marksmanship. Your saying to devote an entire 15 seconds in combat that you will be doing so little damage that ANY of hte current elite specs will out heal you if played even slightly well.

3. Since we have established you don’t deal significant enough damage to be a threat. All you can be is a CC bot. Except that since your only stability is behind 48 second cooldown and can easily be corrupted by a signet necro to fear chain you over and over again while others beat on you. It means you can’t be a bunker in team fights either. So your confined to side nodes. Where you won’t be able to kill the person fighting you unless there running one of the old builds. Especially not if there a tempest where you simply won’t be dealing damage to them. Or a chrono which has no problem CCing and Interupting your attempts to recover. Also you don’t have enough CCs to be a CC bot.

Second. I managed to get past the slump. So I would appreciate not trying to use my post in another thread to derail this one.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTnUqA9Ci1CCuCCctgh9gyD+iI53bPAO7POOinuknlG-TpBFABCcIAEvMgDXAgS2fYhHAAAHBAA

I would recommend trying this. You will actually be able to kill people if you learn how to use it. Unless there a tempest /shrug but a power ranger wont be killing those unless you get lucky with CC or go druid for CA5.

That also in no way changes the fact that the CORE SHOUT UTILITIES WHICH THIS THREAD IS DESIGNED FOR. Are lacking with the exception of sic em.

I am not talking about Heal as one here. I am not talking about Strength of the pack. Those are both fine as they are. Hell heal as one is our strongest heal skill.

I am refering to Guard, Protect Me, And search and rescue in this thread. Three of our core shout utiltiies with are Buggy (guard), Prevents the use of our class mechanic and even can KILL that class mechanic (protect me), or simply not worth putting on your bar except as a TRAIT (you can guess).

Edit: Also on your build. You talked about how good heal as one was for coppying boons. But you only have ONE source for offensive boons. So you are not making use of it at all. Also your moa isn’t going to be doing anything with those boons even if had them. Meaning hello 15 second down time for the enemy to do kitten well whatever they want to you.

Ok, you probably know what best for you, only tried to help.
Good luck.

Gah. Im sorry if that came off ruder than I intended. I only recently woke up here. I do appreciate you trying to help. But it wasn’t addressing the purpose of the post. Which annoyed me.

Thank you for the build idea. I hope it continues to work well for you. It just isn’t something I can apply to my current gameplay. Nor does it address the purpose of my OP.

I’d rather Anet Change all the shouts to be Way more Pet Focused so we can have the option to build for a Full beastmaster tank set up , atm shouts are nither here or there , somewhere stuck in no mans land and do nothing good.

they should revert the shouts to what the Gw1 shouts are and then add in some Defence effects , that way the Sacrifice for going full BM would be to use heal as one that benifits pets and the user , the down side would be the ranger would loose more direct effects and would need to use traits and heal as one to make up for the support loss , as a trade for highly improved pet damage.

a classic example would of been the Gw1 skills or they could rename all the shout skills to Beast mastery skill types and remake some from the old list
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Beast_Mastery

i’d honestly say ranger having shouts does not fit well into its Dynamic we have other means to team support through pet f2s and Druid now , even traits which grant Vigour with sun spirit and on a pet swap , at this point we dont need supporting Shouts of that kind but somthing with different effects which improve pet use at the cost of the rangers personal effectiveness .

if you get what i mean?

for example making Invigorating Bond a Beastmastery Utility skill which is effect by healing power and cast by the pet from the pets location , down side ranger does not receive the heal due to being at range / small radius , benifits pet becomes a focus point of support under the rangers control and reduces the need to pet swap , that in turn will allow the ranger to Maximise buffs on the pet .

ether through grace of land or spirits , or even a Might stacking staff making use of the Piercing , the ways it could be implimented can go way beyond just using shouts for Timbre.

i also still dislike the fact , the recent changes to these pet Swap abilities are all close range effects pushing more focus onto melee combat.

i know Beastmasters in Esports are not Fun to watch as they all see the ranger just standing there to a untrained eye its just spam , so these Shouts need to effect the pet and have proper Animations comming from the ranger to Signal the use of said skill just like Invigorating Bond .

gw1 Predatory Bond as an utility skill that effects team mates healing team mates the more the pet attacks , which is improved even more by quickness making the pet effective damage and support if the targets are slowed or cc’ed enough , obviously with a large orb of green marking the team , that the Utility is in effect.

i don’t accept that we should have stability on anything else different from sotw or SotP , i just don’t see the application uses , maybe if we had a pet that granted stability atleast then we’d have a trade off for a strong boon like stability and the redesgined shouts to beast skills would make up for the in-difference of power to support effects , and again the trade off is Utility skills.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I’d rather Anet Change all the shouts to be Way more Pet Focused so we can have the option to build for a Full beastmaster tank set up , atm shouts are nither here or there , somewhere stuck in no mans land and do nothing good.

they should revert the shouts to what the Gw1 shouts are and then add in some Defence effects , that way the Sacrifice for going full BM would be to use heal as one that benifits pets and the user , the down side would be the ranger would loose more direct effects and would need to use traits and heal as one to make up for the support loss , as a trade for highly improved pet damage.

a classic example would of been the Gw1 skills or they could rename all the shout skills to Beast mastery skill types and remake some from the old list
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Beast_Mastery

i’d honestly say ranger having shouts does not fit well into its Dynamic we have other means to team support through pet f2s and Druid now , even traits which grant Vigour with sun spirit and on a pet swap , at this point we dont need supporting Shouts of that kind but somthing with different effects which improve pet use at the cost of the rangers personal effectiveness .

if you get what i mean?

Believe me I do. And a true BM style would be incredible to play in this game. I just have a feeling it is something they would save for a future elite spec. I almost wish beast mastery WAS an elite spec with all the baggage that comes with it because then the playstyle could more easily be balanced.

All we have right now though are the shouts infront of us.