Guild Wars 2

Another thread for Signet and Trap improvements, as well as suggestions for if or when professions have their missing utilities expanded. In the case of Ranger: an elite Trap and Signet as well as a healing Signet.

So, with those in mind, here are some suggestions and ideas with the goal of keeping it easy, low-impact, and not over-the-top crazy loaded with being able to do everything.

Signet & Trap Cooldowns

-Signet of Renewal cooldown lowered from 60s to 40s.
-Signet of Stone cooldown reduced from 80s to 60s.
-Signet of the Hunt cooldown reduced from 30s to 25s.
-Frost Trap cooldown reduced from 30s to 25s.

Cooldown reductions are to make these utilities more appealing without changing too much. Quicker accessibility without adding a large amount of power creep since most are defensive.

Signet & Trap Changes

-Signet of the Wild passive adds 180 Power (at 80) to you and your pet instead of health regeneration.
-Signet of Stone active duration reduced from 6s to 4s.
-Viper’s Nest applies 2 stacks of poison (4s) when triggered and for 3 pulses. This adds an additional hit and extends the poison field duration from 2s to 3s. Number of targets increased from 3 to 5.
-Flame Trap burning duration increased from 2½s to 3s.
-Spike Trap moved as an elite Trap. Cooldown normalized to 45-seconds in all modes. Now inflicts 6 stacks of torment (8s) instead of bleeding.
-Trapper’s Expertise increased duration bonus reduced from 60% to 50%.

These changes are to accommodate for new utilities, except the changes made to Viper’s Nest, which is to normalize its poison field, number of targets, and pulses to most of the other Traps.

New Signets & Trap

[Heal] Signet of Companionship: You and your pet gain health regeneration. You and your pet heal each other for a percentage of outgoing damage when activated.
-Passive Heal: 125 (0.06)
-Interval: 1s
-Healing: 1860 (0.25)
-Signet of Companionship (6s): 25% of damage you deal heals your pet. 50% of damage your pet deals heals you.
-Cooldown: 30s
-Cast Time: ¼s
-Damage from conditions and retaliation also count.

[Elite] Signet of the Beastmaster: You and your pet attack 10% faster. Revive your pet to full health and instantly recharge pet skills when activated.
-Cooldown: 120s
-Cast Time: 1¼s

[Trap] Dust Trap: Set a trap that blinds and bleeds foes.
-Damage per pulse: 80 (0.6) -coefficient between Flame & Viper-
-Bleeding (2 stacks) per pulse: 5s
-Blindness per pulse: 1s
-Number of Targets: 5
-Pulses: 4
-Duration: 3s
-Trap Radius: 180
-Damage Radius: 240
-Unblockable
-Cooldown: 30s
-Cast Time: ½s

Thoughts?

I think these sound amazing. I still kind of prefer bleeding for spike trap (thematic personal preference) but I’ll take torment since we don’t really apply it through other means and we have a lot of bleed sources already. Plus, dust trap sounds promising and not overly

I’m always down for improving our synergy with pets and I think signets are a decent way to do it. I think Signet of Companionship is a nice suggestion to help survivability as pets tend to lose HP pretty quickly once focused.

Still wish we could trait it so that all shouts have a taunt built into them but I’m not sure pets are quite tanky enough to make that doable.

Unless they add condi clear, invulns (proposed dust trap blind is nice) or stun breaks to traps, I don’t see them ever being terribly useful for competitive stuff. Several other professions have utilities that both damage and protect at the same time, notably and relevantly: DHs.

On the other hand I’m not sure I want more traps added to competitive stuff, considering how lame thieves and DHs currently are.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Snip

ONLY SPEAKING FOR THE TRAPS PART (MOSTLY IN PVP)

Imho, we are the addressing the trap problem here.

1.) Why do I want to use traps?

There is literally 0 reason to use traps in pvp in higher MMR matches. Our traps, compared to DH traps offer no value except for a condition bomb. Does not work for cleaving downed too unless someone procs it.

2.) 0 Utility

First: There is no stun breaker trap, So, at max you can only run 1 trap at a time (+ the heal trap) unless you build around it, 2 traps + BM shout for AF is good BUT you wont have SoS or SoR for sustain, or any combination for that matter.

Second: There is no condition cleanse trap as well except for the heal, well you wouldn’t want to blow off your heal just to cleanse right? Well again you have to build around this weakness, You have to go WS + SKIRM + DRUID for the cleanse, BUT you do LOSE on AF regen without the regen, no mobility too from swiftness unless you get traveler.

Third: Trap Trait absolutely sucks balls. The durations should been adjusted baseline and added a different effect on the trait. (2) We also only have 1 trap trait. DH has 2 (1 of which is also a stun breaker), Thief has 2 as well.

DH:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter's_Determination
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piercing_Light

Thief:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Trapper
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trappers_Respite

Fourth: IMO the most important one, Our traps do not do anything ASIDE FOR CONDITION BOMBING.

Check these reference vs other traps:

DH:

1.) Offer boons
2.) Provide some sort of effect Like Dragon’s Maw, Test of Faith (Damage or Area Denial)
3.) Offers a stun breaker
4.) Offers team support / oriented effect (Shards of faith, revealed)
5.) Offers a condition as well (Cripple, Slow, Vulnerability,etc)

THIEF: (traps are bad too, although the point here is that each trap gives you a different use) By themselves they are pitiful but if you got a venom sharing thief with you it gets better.

1.) Summon AI
2.) Conditions (1 trap even gives you 3 conditions) So compare Needle Trap vs Spike Trap
3.) A Teleport
4.) A CC

FINAL POINT: Again, the only real use of ranger traps is a pitiful condition bomb. Even with your suggestions it would not make a difference since we are not addressing the real problem here.

Your blind trap suggestion looks good though since it does something to benefit the ranger and the team

StickerHappy.8052:

FINAL POINT: Again, the only real use of ranger traps is a pitiful condition bomb. Even with your suggestions it would not make a difference since we are not addressing the real problem here.

The real problem I see here is that we seemed focused on bringing in more power creep instead of reducing what was introduced with other classes.

As I stated in the opening, these are low-impact suggestions, and I have previously mentioned before DH traps need another glance over.

I would be more than ecstatic if DH traps had all of the boons on-trigger removed, cast times placed on Test of Faith and Fragments of Faith, and Test of Faith had either its damage reduced further or unblockable removed.

Between adding more power creep and reducing what was introduced, I’d rather the latter. Aside from that – yeah, more Signets!

StickerHappy.8052:

stuff

This post is spot on
Small adjustments to traps like changing conditions and duration of effects wont address the underlying issue with them simply only having one purpose.

That said, I do like the signet stuff, and the Blind trap would be very useful. I would have honestly wished they kept them being throw-able (or at least gave some sort of movement effect like Sword 2’s leaps or evade similar to Sword 3 to the user when deployed instead of just dropping them if they’re going to remain as condi/field skills).

Trapper’s Expertise could be buffed to do something more. Maybe grant a Blast finisher upon a trap being triggered within the field it generates since the Field aspect doesn’t get too much use?

No on the signet of stone CD reduction without reducing the damage invulnerability duration to 3-4 seconds.

No on the SotW added power. Rangers really shouldn’t be getting buffs to passive damage for themselves and their pets.

Justine.6351:

Rangers really shouldn’t be getting buffs to passive damage for themselves and their pets.

I dunno, we do poop all damage. There are about zero builds I can kill as a full glass ascended berserker druid in WvW if they are running something like soldiers. Most people can just out-regen the damage we do. Thief is the only class I know for sure I can kill and now they’ve got ghost thieves running around

Fluffball.8307:

Justine.6351:

Rangers really shouldn’t be getting buffs to passive damage for themselves and their pets.

I dunno, we do poop all damage. There are about zero builds I can kill as a full glass ascended berserker druid in WvW if they are running something like soldiers. Most people can just out-regen the damage we do. Thief is the only class I know for sure I can kill and now they’ve got ghost thieves running around

In my experience that has been more about hard defenses rather than damage reduction. More power won’t help against projectile hate or improve the poorly power scaling 10k staff laserbeam. But it would dump more raw stat on the pet.

Woundrous has good suggestions. Sticker nailed the problem. Disagreeing with euthymias though.
Nerfing everything else so that there isnt a powercreep makes everything as useful as the inferior skills. I would rather see the base stuff be as good as the elite skills. Elite specs should bring more mechanics and options not more power.

I would like to see an overhaul to the traps but i have two peoposals.
One is sinple the other more extensive.

1.
Cd reduction for frost. Add stunbreak and insta cast. Increase dmg.
For vipers i would say 4s field with 2 poison stacks per pulse each second. Increasing the duration of the stacks a little bit. Hit 5 targets. This would give more utility even if fewer stacks.
Flame trap: Increase duration to 4s. Give one pulse more.
Trait: Lay down a spike trap when stunned. This is not a stunbreak but more of an offensive mechanism to punish enemies who stunned you.

2. Changing trap mechanics.
Fire trap is a burst skill that does 5 stacks of fire instant and is an explosion finisher. Flamettap is now a stunbreak. Flame trap does more dmg on activation because of its.missing duration.
Vipers nest does 1 stack per second duration increased to 6s. Trap increases its radius every second. Vipersnest applies also cripple.
Frosttrap pulls in enemies like dragonsmaw does and triggers its effect. I would like to add bleed stacks per pulse but i dont know if this would be beneficial or to OP.
Healing spring gives vigor in addition.

InsaneQR.7412:

Frosttrap pulls in enemies like dragonsmaw does and triggers its effect.

How about Frost Trap becomes an elite trap (hear me out) and on-trigger, it traps foes in a block of ice for 2s while pulsing chill (3s) in the area for 3s. Cooldown increased from 30s to 60s.

It’s a bit extreme, but hey, making it an exclusive elite slot and doubling the cooldown works that a bit over. Would setup trap condi-bombing and add team support with Dust Trap when fighting on-point.

As for stun breaks on a trap, I still say modify Hidden Barbs instead. “Bleeds you apply deal 33% more damage. When you break out of a stun, lay a _ Trap – ICD of Trap’s cooldown.” In the opening suggestion that would be Dust Trap. In the current situation – Spike Trap.

An elite frost trap doesn’t sound that extreme, it’s almost exactly the reaper elite shout.

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

FINAL POINT: Again, the only real use of ranger traps is a pitiful condition bomb. Even with your suggestions it would not make a difference since we are not addressing the real problem here.

The real problem I see here is that we seemed focused on bringing in more power creep instead of reducing what was introduced with other classes.

As I stated in the opening, these are low-impact suggestions, and I have previously mentioned before DH traps need another glance over.

I would be more than ecstatic if DH traps had all of the boons on-trigger removed, cast times placed on Test of Faith and Fragments of Faith, and Test of Faith had either its damage reduced further or unblockable removed.

Between adding more power creep and reducing what was introduced, I’d rather the latter. Aside from that – yeah, more Signets!

This is not even about power creep. Our traps are absolutely useless compared to other stuff so there is really no incentive to slot them in.

Comparisons

Flame Trap Vs Bonfire

• The only thing that flame trap has going for itself is the lower CD and Unblockable (well if someone procs them), other than that, Bonfire does more damage, also acts as a fire field AND I can use it to cleave a downed body even if no one is ressing.

Another big thing is that I do not lose a utility slot for it PLUS It lasts 8 seconds

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bonfire
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap

Frost Trap

• Big problem here is we cannot utilize the chill, vs A reaper who gets the damage from chill regardless of how much duration is applied unless you trait around Predator’s onslaught, but again I wouldnt think a situational 15% increased damage is worth in PVP UNLESS it gives 15% more damage to conditions as well. Finally, THIS IS THE ONLY THING THE TRAP DOES

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Trap

This is easily counterable by:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer's_Training
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_On

*^The ones above, all the meta builds has em

Condition cleanses, Transfers, Melandru and Hoelbrak Runes also counter this.

With 2k Power it only deals 900 dmg /4

Again this is another useless trap. ON A WHOPPING 30 SECONDS CD

Viper’s Nest Vs Choking Gas

• The only decent one of the group

Choking gas does not need anything to proc it, that’s why it is Soooo useful in pvp especially in downed fights. Both are unblockable as well but choking gas is ranged @ 900.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Viper's_Nest

(This is comparison is just to show how pitiful our traps are)

Healing Spring Vs Well of Blood

• Healing spring DOES NOT heal allies, Well it grants regen (AGAIN YOU NEED TO STAY INSIDE THE TRAP TO FULLY REAP IT) It does clear conditions, (THIS WILL NOT PREVENT CONDI BOMBS, you will still get overwhelmed), The only plus of HS is its a water field, Healing potential, Well of Blood is infinitely better, even more so when its traited since it grants protection.

• Another downside is this will NOT PROC if you only want the condition cleanse, meaning it will not trigger when you have full HP

• I don’t know if this is a bug but Low HP teammates will not proc the trap either. It has to be you.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Blood
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring

(This is comparison is just to show how pitiful our traps are)

FINAL POINT In order to make full use of our traps, (DH and thief excluded since they work differently) THE TARGETS NEED TO STAY IN THE TRAPS Otherwise they can just walk off of it

• I would say our traps need another functionality ON TOP of the conditions they do. Second, Trapper’s Expertise is also needs an overhaul, the durations are not even game changing.

So @all, any ideas? THIS IS NOT EVEN ABOUT POWERCREEP, ALL OF THE COMPARISONS I LISTED ARE ALL CORE MECHANICS, and look how our traps fail in comparison.

Wondrouswall.7169:

InsaneQR.7412:

Frosttrap pulls in enemies like dragonsmaw does and triggers its effect.

How about Frost Trap becomes an elite trap (hear me out) and on-trigger, it traps foes in a block of ice for 2s while pulsing chill (3s) in the area for 3s. Cooldown increased from 30s to 60s.

It’s a bit extreme, but hey, making it an exclusive elite slot and doubling the cooldown works that a bit over. Would setup trap condi-bombing and add team support with Dust Trap when fighting on-point.

As for stun breaks on a trap, I still say modify Hidden Barbs instead. “Bleeds you apply deal 33% more damage. When you break out of a stun, lay a _ Trap – ICD of Trap’s cooldown.” In the opening suggestion that would be Dust Trap. In the current situation – Spike Trap.

I thought about that too but i dont wanted to go that much out of the window.
As an elite it would be good but i would give it an increased area, about 20% bigger would be nice.
Problem with suggesting new skills is that it is more likely to tweak exosting ones instead of creating new ones. Thats why i kept it as a utility.

PS: Sticker pointed very vigourosly out what the problem with ranger traps are in comparison to other AoE skills.
I myself do not have a PvP perspective but have to agree with him in any point except the vipersnest. It only hits 3 targets. In PvP this doensnt have that much of an impact but for crowd clearing in PvE it is inferior to bonfire.

StickerHappy.8052:

-snip-

This is where we just have to agree to disagree. I disagree with all those comparisons and it is still very much about power creep. Most of which stems from the larger changes made since Sept. 2014 and with Heart of Thorns.

Again, all of what I suggest are low impact suggestions for if/when Ranger acquires other traps and signets to fill out the utility roster, and fits more with the core game than what came after.

You’re welcome to start another thread for drastic reworks of under-performing utilities in terms of competitive aspects. As a side note: I agree with Justine on Signet of Stone. Shorter cooldown with a reduced duration is more than fair.

The mobs in AC are still able to throw their traps, us Rangers can no longer do so. Doesn’t make sense to me. IMO Ranger’s traps are also subpar as compared to DH’s (utilities wise).

Make traps throwable again! Give us an elite trap!

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

-snip-

This is where we just have to agree to disagree. I disagree with all those comparisons and it is still very much about power creep. Most of which stems from the larger changes made since Sept. 2014 and with Heart of Thorns.

Again, all of what I suggest are low impact suggestions for if/when Ranger acquires other traps and signets to fill out the utility roster, and fits more with the core game than what came after.

You’re welcome to start another thread for drastic reworks of under-performing utilities in terms of competitive aspects. As a side note: I agree with Justine on Signet of Stone. Shorter cooldown with a reduced duration is more than fair.

Well he has a point that traps are underperforming to other AoEs in the game. But still, i would rather like good changes that improve on traps without powercreep them into a must have.
In PvE they are still very often used. Spike trap is decent and flametrap gives you a perma fire field with bonfire and QD.
Main thing is with ranger traps that they are condi fields/CC. Reason why spike trap is so good is because it is both.
I would use frost trap as a utility if it would do a short stun.
Vipersnest would be the best condi bomb if it could hit 5 targets and would last a litzle bit longer and flame trap would give us a new finisher if it could be an explosion instead of a field.
Traps are not nuanced enough. At the moment they are combofields with bonus effects and not skills with combofields.

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

-snip-

This is where we just have to agree to disagree. I disagree with all those comparisons and it is still very much about power creep. Most of which stems from the larger changes made since Sept. 2014 and with Heart of Thorns.

Again, all of what I suggest are low impact suggestions for if/when Ranger acquires other traps and signets to fill out the utility roster, and fits more with the core game than what came after.

You’re welcome to start another thread for drastic reworks of under-performing utilities in terms of competitive aspects. As a side note: I agree with Justine on Signet of Stone. Shorter cooldown with a reduced duration is more than fair.

I do get some of your points but the deal breaker here is that even with the condition suggestions, CD reductions, would those changes make you take traps that does only condition bomb?

Or will you take a different class who can do the condi bombing more effectively?

Speaking in PvP / PvE aspect.

@Topic

I disagree with the SotW change. One reason being is that this signet is being used in druid builds without BM. Because you can do a build with both SotW / Dolyak or one of each without being pigeonholed into BM / regen shouts.

StickerHappy.8052:

no mobility too from swiftness unless you get traveler.

Natural Stride and trapper runes, sword leaps and ancestral grace. Plenty of mobility for a trapper druid. And it works at fairly high levels.

The only real problems are lack of stun breaks, some minor additional effects on the traps and additional trait syngergy for our traps (or in other words, a trap stun break, which is what it boils down to). Our traps are unblockable, that isn’t the case for DH’s traps. Need to keep that in mind if you want to “balance things out”.

StickerHappy.8052:

I disagree with the SotW change. One reason being is that this signet is being used in druid builds without BM. Because you can do a build with both SotW / Dolyak or one of each without being pigeonholed into BM / regen shouts.

I don’t. In fact, if we were to get a healing signet, I’d want the change to happen because of that reason alone. You either take a Signet heal over time or WHaO with Resounding Timbre.

The fact that Wild provides a defensive passive with a heavily offensive active is odd enough. Small 180 power for a class and pets that do not scale well with power gives the Wild more focus as an offensive signet while giving only a smidge of power.

Both proposals going hand-in-hand are to better synergize with Brutish Seals applying might and shorter cooldowns – so when Rangers use these signets, it’s to go on the offensive, not to power up a support spec. I’d gladly kill Druid synergy as a means to strengthen core Ranger.

Lazze.9870:

StickerHappy.8052:

no mobility too from swiftness unless you get traveler.

Natural Stride and trapper runes, sword leaps and ancestral grace. Plenty of mobility for a trapper druid. And it works at fairly high levels.

The only real problems are lack of stun breaks, some minor additional effects on the traps and additional trait syngergy for our traps (or in other words, a trap stun break, which is what it boils down to). Our traps are unblockable, that isn’t the case for DH’s traps. Need to keep that in mind if you want to “balance things out”.

First, Celestial shadow is mandatory for top tier matches. Second, running trapper druid in higher matches will only kitten your team comp. I have never even seen anyone run trapper druid (If ever that exists) in organized matches.

Test of Faith is unblockable fyi. Purification procs even if you block it. So that leaves what? Fragments of faith does not need to be unblockable since its your stun breaker, the fragments drop regardless, same with the trait.

Procession of blades is the only one counterable by multi hit blocks, but still, you just have to time it.

DH traps function very differently since they do so much damage, I would even say even if they aren’t unblockable they will serve their purpose.

Again most of you haven’t suggested “minor effects” on the trap aside from cd reductions and added pulses. Even with those changes, Procession of blades by itself eclipses any other trap we have with those changes.

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

I disagree with the SotW change. One reason being is that this signet is being used in druid builds without BM. Because you can do a build with both SotW / Dolyak or one of each without being pigeonholed into BM / regen shouts.

I don’t. In fact, if we were to get a healing signet, I’d want the change to happen because of that reason alone. You either take a Signet heal over time or WHaO with Resounding Timbre.

The fact that Wild provides a defensive passive with a heavily offensive active is odd enough. Small 180 power for a class and pets that do not scale well with power gives the Wild more focus as an offensive signet while giving only a smidge of power.

Both proposals going hand-in-hand are to better synergize with Brutish Seals applying might and shorter cooldowns – so when Rangers use these signets, it’s to go on the offensive, not to power up a support spec. I’d gladly kill Druid synergy as a means to strengthen core Ranger.

Kill druid synergy? If you kill that, so every druid build will have to use Either dolyak and go BM / NM for AF regen?

StickerHappy.8052:

Again most of you haven’t suggested “minor effects” on the trap aside from cd reductions and added pulses. Even with those changes, Procession of blades by itself eclipses any other trap we have with those changes.

Cooldown reductions and normalization of pulses to match other traps within a profession’s themed utility are “minor effects.” When asking for stuff like stun breaks, instant cast times (instead of reduced), and other additional functionality like when Spike Trap received a launch feature, we are stepping outside of that into major effects.

Let’s be honest. If Frost Trap were to be a stun breaker and instant, Rangers would use it for only a couple of weeks out of curiosity. Then, after a month, return here and complain that it needs more because the game around us changed so much, that the chill still doesn’t help much, the damage ticks are too weak, and because of the physical damage – it’s still unusable with Trapper runes for escaping.

So, a minor cooldown reduction is most of what it can get. It’s not going to make a difference, but it prevents a mistake Anet sometimes makes of giving the players an inch, and then we try and take a mile.

It’s either that, or go with the elite Frost Trap suggestion. But I’m sure someone out there wouldn’t be too happy about a drastic cooldown increase, let alone not being able to slot a reworked Frost Trap that can lock players in a block of ice AND Entangled AND Spike Trap in the same bar while traiting for Ancient Seeds.

StickerHappy.8052:

Kill druid synergy? If you kill that, so every druid build will have to use Either dolyak and go BM / NM for AF regen?

There are other means to generate AF. I can’t find that video Justine posted awhile back when against regen to generate AF, but look that up if you can. Shake up that meta!

@Wonderwall

Here is where I am coming from. I am almost 7k games in pvp. Pretty high MMR and really interested in joining tourneys in the future.

First, I would ask you is with your changes what spreads would be viable?

I am asking this not that I am against your changes, it’s just that I would not think that this would remove us from the BM/NM/Druid meta in higher end pvp (TEAM SETTING)

That is why I think your changes need more man. I have been in the pvp scene for a very long time now and that is my basis for saying that changes are not enough. Solo q yeah, (but let’s not forget anything works for soloq)

The frost trap elite would work seriously.

One example I would give you is, Your frost trap changes but I would add pulsing slow. Now that would make me wanna use it, because slow not only adds as a cover condition but would also server as a game changer in team fights.

The stun breaker functionality is needed. Why? not because we need a stun breaker but this would open up builds that are not centered in WS or BM. This would open up SB skirmishing builds. I can still get WS but now I can focus on EB or PM.

Another Change in my opinion is changing Trapper’s expertise to:

Traps are throwable again then add a 1-1.5 second Immob on activation, that way since our traps are centered on overtime conditions to make full use of it, now the targets will actually STAY on the trap.

That was one of the problems our traps have is they can simply walk away from it.

vs

Dragons maw you can’t walk away, Procession of blades will still proc 2-3 times without blink if you manage to dodge it, Test of faith, you have to dodge it if you don’t want damage.