Guild Wars 2

… hopefully druid as an ability to shoot projectiles threw reflects. Maybe a utility spell similar to the warrior one that makes 5 attacks unblock-able. The way I see it, longbow is and probably always will be one of the favored weapons for the ranger and it’s biggest counter is reflect. All of the longbow’s abilities except 5 can get reflected. With the longbow being such a core weapon many classes can easily counter the Ranger by simply having a reflect ability or utility. Part of the rangers ‘unique identity’ is being good and damaging from range, having the ability to shoot through reflect for a small window would help with this identity. Yes I understand you can stop attacking when reflect is up, I don’t think this is a needed change it would just be a nice unique ability. If it seems strong maybe still allow the projectile to be reflected to the ranger but have the projectile still go threw towards it’s target (making the ranger have to take damage to get through the reflect still).

What are your thoughts on this?

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

Shaogin.2679:

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

The will be using staff ranged not melee right? I think every ranged weapon in the game has at least one attack on it that is projectile based. Not saying that means it should have a projectile focus. I just think it would be a nice trait to have, I don’t see why warriors can have a trait that goes though blocks (blocks affect melee and they are heavy melee hitters) and rangers can have one that goes though reflects.

I think staff will end up with some ranged skills but they won’t be projectiles. Thinking skills like ele dagger earth aa. It pops up from ground at targets location.

Since its likely to see root skills, popping up from the ground type attacks seems a possibility.

As for all these reflects ingame, learn to skill cancel and/or weapon swap.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Shaogin.2679:

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

The will be using staff ranged not melee right? I think every ranged weapon in the game has at least one attack on it that is projectile based. Not saying that means it should have a projectile focus. I just think it would be a nice trait to have, I don’t see why warriors can have a trait that goes though blocks (blocks affect melee and they are heavy melee hitters) and rangers can have one that goes though reflects.

Necro Axe is an example for a ranged auto that is not a projectile.

Reflect is the most overpowered skill in the game. Projectile destroy is ok, since that’s basically 100% damage reduction, which is the same as block. But reflect is a 200% damage difference. 100% less on the defender and 100% more damage on the attacker.

Not even retaliation comes remotely close to the power of reflect. Retaliation only returns a tiny amount of damage (about 200 per hit) and doesn’t reduce the incoming damage at all.

If you pew at someone, and they reflect… before the reflected projectile gets back to hit you, if you then get a reflect field yourself would the reflected projectile reflect off you???

no, projectiles only reflect once I think

@Bryzy I think they can only reflect one time, the second time they are destroyed because I have never seen a ‘super projectile’ in WvW when 5 guardian reflect walls go down and projectiles go all over.

@Justine I didn’t say the trait is necessary, and I understand how to avoid hitting myself with reflect and that I can use my other weapon (normal not another ranged weapon). I just think it would be a nice ability for rangers. The warrior can wait to use abilities when someone blocks but has the utility to go through blocks.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

@Bryzy I think they can only reflect one time, the second time they are destroyed because I have never seen a ‘super projectile’ in WvW when 5 guardian reflect walls go down and projectiles go all over.

@Justine I didn’t say the trait is necessary, and I understand how to avoid hitting myself with reflect and that I can use my other weapon (normal not another ranged weapon). I just think it would be a nice ability for rangers. The warrior can wait to use abilities when someone blocks but has the utility to go through blocks.

Perhaps some way of making critical hits blow through reflects and blocking? Or maybe just critical hits dealing their dmg even if projectile gets reflected?

I don’t agree. Reflections are one of the counter-plays for ranged combat right now and it should stay that way. if ranged weapons are weak because of it, then I think we should look elsewhere for fixes.

It’s like revealed for thieves currently. It’s a counterplay for one of their often-used mechanics, and it should stay a counterplay. Espeically since if a trait (for example) ever gets added to ignore reflections, the other traits would have to be darn good for everyone to not always pick that trait

Would be totes hilare/maje bantz/top lols if projectiles had infinite reflect.

Imagine putting two elementalists stood opposite each other, with a pewpew ranger stood behind each one…. eles pop reflect while the rangers pew at each other and watch the ping pong begin.

@Justine That would be another cool way to do it although maybe it would need some sort of cooldown because in some game modes you can get to 100% crit and I don’t think permanent reflect penetration is good, that would be too strong.

@ITheNormalPerson There are other methods to counter-playing ranged combat such as: closing the gap, using blocks, using invulnerability, line of sight. It’s not like this is the only way to counter ranged play, and I don’t think allowing ranger to have 5 attacks that can ‘penetrate’ reflects will cause reflects to become useless. For instance ranger wouldn’t even be able to get an entire rapid fire off with just 5 penetrating projectiles.

Edit: Also you can say that blocking is a counter to melee damage(ranged aswell) so warriors shouldn’t be able to attack through blocks because it’s a form of counter play. I also do want just a warrior can do it so why can’t rangers. It’s similar but more unique to ranger since they tend to be more ranged projectile based.

Bryzy.2719:

If you pew at someone, and they reflect… before the reflected projectile gets back to hit you, if you then get a reflect field yourself would the reflected projectile reflect off you???

The answer I believe to this is yes…

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I don’t agree. Reflections are one of the counter-plays for ranged combat right now and it should stay that way.

It really isn’t. Not all ranged weapons use projectiles. Just look at Mesmer Greatsword. Also, some ranged projectiles are unblockable baseline, again, look at Mesmer Greatsword.

I’d welcome some runeset giving Unblockable effect for couple seconds/hits or such trait.

L2P and use ground targeted aoe instead, like traps. Oh… wait…

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I don’t agree. Reflections are one of the counter-plays for ranged combat right now and it should stay that way. if ranged weapons are weak because of it, then I think we should look elsewhere for fixes.

It’s like revealed for thieves currently. It’s a counterplay for one of their often-used mechanics, and it should stay a counterplay. Espeically since if a trait (for example) ever gets added to ignore reflections, the other traits would have to be darn good for everyone to not always pick that trait

Only retaliation also counter plays ranged combat (especially the multi-focus of the ranger) so perhaps it would be best of projectiles no longer triggered retaliation as a compromise.

They do seem to be adding a lot more projectile reflection/destruction to the game, and while I appreciate the counter play, it would be nice to gain a limited way to bypass the increasing number of anti-projectile skills. My main concern with what we see so far isn’t necessarily how many anti-projectile skills are being made available but how easy they are to access for many classes. Currently, if someone brings reflection generally you feel they made a conscious decision to do so. Maybe they gave up another utility for Wall of Reflection or perhaps traited with Warden’s Feedback. A lot of the new anti-projectile skills are tied to weapons or skills that players would likely take for other effects and not the projectile protection.

Scrapper:
Defense Field – Utility – Toolbelt
Electro-whirl – Weapon

Berzerker:
Flaming Flurry – Weapon

Dragonhunter:
Deflecting Shot – Weapon

Reaper:
Death’s Charge – All Reapers

Tempest:
Shock and Aftershock – Utility – Secondary Effect

Revenant:
Warding Rift – Weapon
Field of the Mists – Weapon
Protective Solace – Ventauri Legend

That said, I doubt the Druid would be the best place for for such a mechanic to be introduced. The core class would seem like a much better fit. All we need is a very limited way to make some of our projectiles unblockable. If a warrior can shoot through a Wall of Reflection it would make sense that rangers could get access to similar counter play.

Honestly I would like for a rework of the Marksmanship minor traits to make them more significant. I know there are already a lot of ideas around for how to improve this, but simply making opening strikes unblockable (by adding that effect to Precise Strike) would seem like a decent start. This would also greatly assist us when dealing with guardians whose aegis basically counters opening strike completely as well. Other forms of unblockable projectiles could be nice but only if limited in nature. We shouldn’t be able to avoid projectile counterplay completely.

If all else fails we can at least take solace in the fact that Well of Precognition is the first skill that allows a player to make their allies unblockable. Perhaps more ways to gain unblockable will become available over time.

They took away the unblockabe buff sharing on mesmer’s well of precognition skill. I’d love to see druid gets this unique support in some way instead.

I’ve been thinking about this alot, reflects are a get out of jail free card, but I seriously don’t think ANet is competent enough to make an actual counter to it.

I think Ranger should get this trait:

• whenever your projectiles are reflected, they are destroyed instead.

Because Reflects result in 200% damage mitigation, they should ALWAYS be a 50% chance to work (see Strider’s Defense). This will cause their overall damage mitigation to return to 100% (200% half of the time is 100%).

Bryzy.2719:

Would be totes hilare/maje bantz/top lols if projectiles had infinite reflect.

Imagine putting two elementalists stood opposite each other, with a pewpew ranger stood behind each one…. eles pop reflect while the rangers pew at each other and watch the ping pong begin.

They had this in closed beta, but two players tried what you were suggesting. They timed to see how long the projectile would bounce but eventually, after 10 minutes I think, one of them moved slightly, the projectile ricocheted off, it one shotted Zhatian, then flew out of the screen and a dev almost lost an eye.

They finally changed the reflect when Chuck Norris phoned, after catching the projectile in mid-flght, with a pair of chop-sticks. He was like

“Doods, what the heck. Taht kittening thing was so fast I almost flinched!”

When even Chuck Norris has to complain, you know it’s OP.

True story.

^ top lols

In all seriousness you could be on to something there though. Perhaps the reason Rangers have been so neglected is that Chuck Norris has held a gun to the Devs’ heads whenever balance and communications in general have occurred.

@Lycian Ollopa does unblockable work though reflects as well? I though it only worked for block specifically and would do nothing against reflect. Yea Druid probably isn’t the best place for it since it is more necessary for longbow and most likely won’t be too important for staff. The change to opening strike would be a good place to start. Also another thing to point about about the idea of playing smart vs reflect. If you launch a projectile at a foe they have the time to enable their reflect before it hits them (the projectile increase on longbow helps to prevent this) meaning that simple things such as stop attacking is only so effective, in some cases it forces a dodge out of you (admittedly it forces some cd on their part too).

There is far too much reflection in the game now, hard countering Ranger’s best weapon, which annoys me. We should get some option or trait to help combat it.

@Pink Ninja Man: unblockable will bypass reflect. This is a well-known fact in PvP. However, in PvE there are bosses that can “block” anything, just some very few exceptions.

Glyph of Hurricanes
Duration: ?s
Cooldown: ?s

Pulses AoE Swiftness centered on ranger, one pulse per second.
Increases projectile speed of nearby allies by 20%, same range, while slowing enemy projectiles by the same amount.
For the duration, the Druid reflects projectiles which have been reflected, these projectiles gain 50% increased speed, ignore reflection and pierce multiple targets.

Cristobal.8640:

Glyph of Hurricanes
Duration: ?s
Cooldown: ?s

Pulses AoE Swiftness centered on ranger, one pulse per second.
Increases projectile speed of nearby allies by 20%, same range, while slowing enemy projectiles by the same amount.
For the duration, the Druid reflects projectiles which have been reflected, these projectiles gain 50% increased speed, ignore reflection and pierce multiple targets.

Too much code to implement, tbh. Plus, as a glyph, it would need different effects, corresponding to each aspect the Druid would have.

Bryzy.2719:

If you pew at someone, and they reflect… before the reflected projectile gets back to hit you, if you then get a reflect field yourself would the reflected projectile reflect off you???

Projectile can only be reflected twice. If it was reflected then reflected again, the first reflector will eat all the projectile. Try Feedback on Dagger Storm. You will die in 0.5 second as a mes. It’s hilarious but that’s how it is.

Shiki.7148:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Shaogin.2679:

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

The will be using staff ranged not melee right? I think every ranged weapon in the game has at least one attack on it that is projectile based. Not saying that means it should have a projectile focus. I just think it would be a nice trait to have, I don’t see why warriors can have a trait that goes though blocks (blocks affect melee and they are heavy melee hitters) and rangers can have one that goes though reflects.

Necro Axe is an example for a ranged auto that is not a projectile.

axe can hardly be called a ranged weapon..

ozzy.8059:

Shiki.7148:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Shaogin.2679:

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

The will be using staff ranged not melee right? I think every ranged weapon in the game has at least one attack on it that is projectile based. Not saying that means it should have a projectile focus. I just think it would be a nice trait to have, I don’t see why warriors can have a trait that goes though blocks (blocks affect melee and they are heavy melee hitters) and rangers can have one that goes though reflects.

Necro Axe is an example for a ranged auto that is not a projectile.

axe can hardly be called a ranged weapon..

Well it is 600 range which is also hardly melee. I agree it can hardly be called a weapon though But we were promised Axe buffs/Axe rework so maybe they will finally do what should have happened 3 years ago and make it 900 range.

I would like to see some of these added.
-“opening shots are now unblockable” added to any of the Marksmanship minor traits.

-MDG changed to Unstoppable- Hilt Bash, PBS, Concussion shot, PoS, Crippling talon, Throw Torch, and Hunter’s Call are now unblockable, stun the target for 1.5 sec and shatter reflects.

-Increase the GS auto attack damage to compensate for our ranged being so easy to counter, also increase the number of targets to 5

-Reduce the aftercast on main hand axe and don’t count it as a projectile (like necro)

-Increase the cleave range of pets so they can hit moving targets, and increase their number of targets to 3

keenlam.4753:

@Pink Ninja Man: unblockable will bypass reflect. This is a well-known fact in PvP. However, in PvE there are bosses that can “block” anything, just some very few exceptions.

Oh, thanks I didn’t know that. I haven’t played much warrior to try out the ability but I knew it existed.

Another ability to prevent projectiles form being effective and in fact being harmful to use. I love to use the longbow on the ranger but with all these new abilities that will basically make my projectiles more useful for the opponent I am fighting I’m not sure I will be able to continue to use it

RIP projectiles (especially in WvW)
Here is to hoping that something get’s done to help projectiles.