Guild Wars 2

If I remembered well, months before we had a great discussion thread over ranger improvement at “profession balance”, many players had made great ideas and suggestions on how to improve ranger as most of players agreed that rangers aren’t in a proper place comparing other classes.

after that, we had “feature pack” which offer every class with six new grand master level traits. ofc, rangers also received some new traits and “minor” fixes.

well, my question is, is that all anet can do for rangers after what we had made a long discussion. because personally(only personally), those new traits aren’t that fancy and those fixes doesn’t quite help either, especially comparing warriors’ and mesmers’ new triats?

Or is there anything anet plan to improve rangers after CDI?

I expect latter…

The feature pack changes have nothing to do with the CDI, the changes from the CDI will only appear several months later, I’ll guess only in the Q4 2014~Q1 2015 we’ll see something from the CDI actually in game.

Belzebu.3912:

The feature pack changes have nothing to do with the CDI, the changes from the CDI will only appear several months later, I’ll guess only in the Q4 2014~Q1 2015 we’ll see something from the CDI actually in game.

Well, the Fractal CDI was at the same time, and the Dredge Fractal was already changed. Though it is true. I think balancing a class is harder and requires more fine tuning. I expect the earliest change with season 2, if at all. The latest date I expect them to change anything is beginning of Q3 of 2014. So we will see when stuff happens.

However I think you are not giving the new traits any chance. Yes the Skirmisher one and the Beastmaster one are useless, buuuut Read the Wind is used in PvP metas, Poison Master is also used in some PvP and even some PvE builds and Survival of the Fittest is just genius. So I guess Poison Master and Read the Wind are somewhat okish and disputable, but Survival of the Fittest certainly is a very good and useful trait, depending on how and where you use it. However, there is no real PvE useable trait, that is true.

KehxD.6847:

Well, the Fractal CDI was at the same time, and the Dredge Fractal was already changed. Though it is true. I think balancing a class is harder and requires more fine tuning.

Yes, exactly. Tuning the Fractal is way easier and involves less risk, any class balance is very delicate since it change every aspect of the game, an unbalanced change in the fractal won’t be as damaging as one in a class mechanic.

Maybe some changes may appear in later Q3, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if nothing major changed till Q4, and only some global changes and fixes till then.

Belzebu.3912:

KehxD.6847:

Well, the Fractal CDI was at the same time, and the Dredge Fractal was already changed. Though it is true. I think balancing a class is harder and requires more fine tuning.

Yes, exactly. Tuning the Fractal is way easier and involves less risk, any class balance is very delicate since it change every aspect of the game, an unbalanced change in the fractal won’t be as damaging as one in a class mechanic.

Maybe some changes may appear in later Q3, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if nothing major changed till Q4, and only some global changes and fixes till then.

True, any big changes shouldn’t be expected until Q4, but some smaller issues, some scaling things and maybe so responsiveness changes may already happen in Q3 I think.

KehxD.6847:

Belzebu.3912:

The feature pack changes have nothing to do with the CDI, the changes from the CDI will only appear several months later, I’ll guess only in the Q4 2014~Q1 2015 we’ll see something from the CDI actually in game.

Well, the Fractal CDI was at the same time, and the Dredge Fractal was already changed. Though it is true. I think balancing a class is harder and requires more fine tuning. I expect the earliest change with season 2, if at all. The latest date I expect them to change anything is beginning of Q3 of 2014. So we will see when stuff happens.

However I think you are not giving the new traits any chance. Yes the Skirmisher one and the Beastmaster one are useless, buuuut Read the Wind is used in PvP metas, Poison Master is also used in some PvP and even some PvE builds and Survival of the Fittest is just genius. So I guess Poison Master and Read the Wind are somewhat okish and disputable, but Survival of the Fittest certainly is a very good and useful trait, depending on how and where you use it. However, there is no real PvE useable trait, that is true.

I agreed that poison potency grandmaster trait is kind of useful in pvp, however, considering rangers’ lb is so terrible, “read the wind” effect should be a effect by default, not a grandmaster trait (only personal idea) effect. rangers as bows masters should take some advantages using bows, but cost one grandmaster slot is way to waste. projectile traveling speed is mentioned in previous CDI and many believed it should be a default improvement.

On the other hand, rangers did good performance over PvP, but on PvE and WvW, those new traits don’t really help alot.

and also according to anet’s plan, they also have 2nd and 3rd classes for CDI after rangers, if we will receive improvement until Q4, then when the other two classes receive their improvement? their CDI discussion threads not even started…(poor necros and eles)

well, as a bow-lover, I’m just trying to express my feeling that how eager I wish to see improvement I’d like to see rangers will have. I know I made funny ideas, just pls don’t laugh at me too hard.

KehxD.6847:

Belzebu.3912:

The feature pack changes have nothing to do with the CDI, the changes from the CDI will only appear several months later, I’ll guess only in the Q4 2014~Q1 2015 we’ll see something from the CDI actually in game.

Well, the Fractal CDI was at the same time, and the Dredge Fractal was already changed. Though it is true. I think balancing a class is harder and requires more fine tuning. I expect the earliest change with season 2, if at all. The latest date I expect them to change anything is beginning of Q3 of 2014. So we will see when stuff happens.

However I think you are not giving the new traits any chance. Yes the Skirmisher one and the Beastmaster one are useless, buuuut Read the Wind is used in PvP metas, Poison Master is also used in some PvP and even some PvE builds and Survival of the Fittest is just genius. So I guess Poison Master and Read the Wind are somewhat okish and disputable, but Survival of the Fittest certainly is a very good and useful trait, depending on how and where you use it. However, there is no real PvE useable trait, that is true.

O.O Since when RtW or PM are any meta? In top 9999?

I would imagine the next patch we would see any sort of progress towards the discussions we had and the CDI will be around July, especially if ANet has another PAX PvP tournament planned.

Otherwise, it won’t be until after PAX, or as mentioned earler, Q4 2014 at the earliest, late summer if tournaments aren’t a factor.

Not to mention any number of “secret” projects ANet might be working on for PAX/etc to drop any info on.

So we have to suffer through a Season 2 yet? Oh…

I can not really see many good things in the future of the profession as ANet is terrified of both power creep and losing players. The first mean that they’ve hinted (more or less) that the ranger closer to the place they want it in and the other profession are the ones needed back in line. The later causes problems as negative impact balancing (nerfs if you are convinced [insert class/trait/skill] is not an issue) can lead to a loss of players.
We keep getting mixed messages from Anet like “The strength of the ranger being able to build himself one way (offensively or defensively), while have a pet that goes the other way” (paraphrasing Mr. Cartwrights summary video) then receiving nearly complete reduction of all pet damage.

I do not want to be so pessimistic, but the past year has basically showed me that:

1) Anet vision of the ranger entirely different from (at least a portion of) the player base.
2) The (entire maybe) balance team has been replace since the original design and the current team is at a lost of what to do with ranger or dislike most of the existing framework while knowing that it is not possible to redesign the profession from the ground up

Let me say, what most of combat-type people enjoy is if they can really slay foes.
Nerf doesn’t help these people… keep hitting a single trashmob to kill? C’mon…

And some may asks what if we really slay our foes mean not alone?
Then they must come to us from bigger distance, as they react to the bigger force they have to deal with…
What about the strong 1v1s and zerg vs zergs?
Skill based things like right time dodge, skill useage and anything that isn’t spamming would make a great game…

Like we expect tactics from the “TOP” FPS games meanwhile kids playing it…
This makes me really sad…

I was curious about this myself, took a 2 month break and was curious of we’re still relegated to spirit bunker in PvP and Regen in WvW. My ranger is looking so lonely at 71 and kinda wanted to get him into WvW if anything significant has happened.

ArenaNet has to really get some balls and don’t be afraid of changing even core things, like mechanics or resources. Trying to build something on the rotten core is like building house on sand.

Two years have been enough. Fix kitten movement, split Pet AI from NPC AI, give us more control over it, don’t be afraid of copying good ideas from other productions. Shiny, new, revolutionary – it’s not always the best idea.

I mean, I get it that they like to be pioneers and, for example, make ranged useless because it’s revolutionary but heey heey! If you like to experiment, hire more people or motivate already employed ones and give us Test realms, where we can, as mentioned, test your brilliant fixes and ideas before they go live.

Good new things need time, a lot of it. And you don’t have that, really.

You can argue that for example, Blizzard changes too much too quickly, but let’s take Paladins.

They were quite shallow in gameplay, especially Holy and Retribution. Until Cata, when Blizz was not afraid of change the core mechanic and add holy power resource. Guess what, everybody loved that. Same with Focus hunter resource etc.

It takes time to see and recognize a problem. ANet knows of Rangers’ problems for almost two years now. It’s high time for some action, game designers!

That is, Energy Managements with unique (and realistic/logical) restrictions, such as chained attacks that Assassin’s had or Adrenaline building that Warriors had in GW1!

Oh God, why aren’t I’m there yet to make things actual Happen?!

I am absolutely dumbfounded.

As a long time ranger throughout GW1 and GW2’s lifetime I have the utmost confusion with which direction the Ranger is going in.

The best Rangers have ever had was an extremely specific teamcomp BM Barrage pet for FoW. And the ability to solo farm using traps in “some” areas, though this was always considered an exploit. That’s it. No place in UW HM, no place in DoA HM, and even when Rangers were invited into top tier content, it was using a specific build that revolved around another weaponset or second profession.

Coming into GW2..

I won’t even go into the changes that the ranger has gone through in GW2 – because it will remind me of when the short-bow was viable (quicker shots and longer reach) and that would just tear me up. We all know the current state of them:

- Weapon sets don’t mix (you have to go GS if you go LS e.g.)
- Traits need a revamp. Warrior has one trait that gives both 20% cooldown on rifle and piercing projectiles.. we have to separate traits for this….
- Our bows have little use in dungeons or fractals and therefore anyone wanting to use them have little use in comparison to another class.
- It still completely baffles me that to utilise the rangers mobility we need to… put bows away and get out the melee weapon. ?? You can legitimately kite better with a melee set up that a ranged one.
- Will pets ever be viable in top tier content

I mean the changes we want arent to improve things, to make the fun, more fun. And it’s not. There’s nothing fun about being kicked out of dungeon parties or searching for ages, there’s nothing fun about bringing nothing to zergs, there’s nothing fun about roaming with bows and getting your kitten handed to you. We want to be VIABLE. It’s not like we’ve ordered a medium-rare steak at a restaurant and been given a medium and are demanding our money back. We’ve been given a wet noodle on a plate and want a VIABLE meal. This isn’t an unfair request.

I want a viable build (where at least one weapon is a bow) for WvW, PvP and Dungeons/Frac. The reason I made this post is, looking at the history of the ranger I am extremely pessimistic they can deliver on what I consider to me a basic requirement. Can anyone else see things getting better?

Lace.9472:

I am absolutely dumbfounded.

As a long time ranger throughout GW1 and GW2’s lifetime I have the utmost confusion with which direction the Ranger is going in.

The best Rangers have ever had was an extremely specific teamcomp BM Barrage pet for FoW. And the ability to solo farm using traps in “some” areas, though this was always considered an exploit. That’s it. No place in UW HM, no place in DoA HM, and even when Rangers were invited into top tier content, it was using a specific build that revolved around another weaponset or second profession.

Coming into GW2..

I won’t even go into the changes that the ranger has gone through in GW2 – because it will remind me of when the short-bow was viable (quicker shots and longer reach) and that would just tear me up. We all know the current state of them:

- Weapon sets don’t mix (you have to go GS if you go LS e.g.)
- Traits need a revamp. Warrior has one trait that gives both 20% cooldown on rifle and piercing projectiles.. we have to separate traits for this….
- Our bows have little use in dungeons or fractals and therefore anyone wanting to use them have little use in comparison to another class.
- It still completely baffles me that to utilise the rangers mobility we need to… put bows away and get out the melee weapon. ?? You can legitimately kite better with a melee set up that a ranged one.
- Will pets ever be viable in top tier content

I mean the changes we want arent to improve things, to make the fun, more fun. And it’s not. There’s nothing fun about being kicked out of dungeon parties or searching for ages, there’s nothing fun about bringing nothing to zergs, there’s nothing fun about roaming with bows and getting your kitten handed to you. We want to be VIABLE. It’s not like we’ve ordered a medium-rare steak at a restaurant and been given a medium and are demanding our money back. We’ve been given a wet noodle on a plate and want a VIABLE meal. This isn’t an unfair request.

I want a viable build (where at least one weapon is a bow) for WvW, PvP and Dungeons/Frac. The reason I made this post is, looking at the history of the ranger I am extremely pessimistic they can deliver on what I consider to me a basic requirement. Can anyone else see things getting better?

An extraordinary post.

Mainly because it includes the reality that this wasn’t a 2-year problem…. it’s now going on a 10 year problem. Ranger was always considered “too pivotal” in very small structured PvP arenas primarily at the expense of it being viable anywhere else. No other class except Assassin ever had this problem to such a pronounced degree at launch and any class that got close, was given several “I Win” skills later on because the Devs just felt sorry for them. Why have they never once felt sorry for the Ranger? Getting them to admit that it was the most Voted on for CDI by a landslide margin, had the appearance of pulling teeth. I’ve never once in all my years of watching development teams, seen one that pulled the Red-headed Stepchild routine this thoroughly on a class they themselves fathered. It makes no sense.

The only possible explanation might actually come from them all previously being hardcore DAoC fans … which is where the word “Nerf” actually originated from BTW after “Archers” received a downgrade to their bows so egregious that they all compared it to the Nerf-Brand™ product that fired Styrofoam arrows.

I remember a discussion (dev’s commented on it) in the CDI about Rangers being the master’s of poison because of their knowledge of the wilderness. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw the poison master trait. That was a player’s idea that actually made it into the game in some form. Of course there’s a lot more work to be done, but at least that’s something.

Jaysin X.6740:

I remember a discussion (dev’s commented on it) in the CDI about Rangers being the master’s of poison because of their knowledge of the wilderness. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw the poison master trait. That was a player’s idea that actually made it into the game in some form. Of course there’s a lot more work to be done, but at least that’s something.

More likely someone final threw out an idea that they had already had finished and bam… “The Devs are listening to us”. Only time will tell with that feedback, but I for one am not expecting much out the team at all, as long as at least on build works for sPvP then they will probably let the rest of the aspects of the profession rot.