Guild Wars 2

I saw sam video about selfish condi ranger build. It can pump out like 30k dps in the full buff situation. That’s like a rev without the support.

So it isn’t that bad, right?

It’s trash. Ranger solo DPS is only less terrible than mesmer. It’s the 2nd worst DPS in the game.

And the 30k video is on a selfish condi build (which nobody will let you run anyways, since they bring you for heals and grace of the land procs off your healing form, aka Celestial Avatar) with food and buffs on a stationary target that doesn’t move out of your bonfire.

Do NOT roll a ranger if you want to DPS or go through mobs in open world quickly or want to solo dungeons or fractals efficiently.

I don’t think, ranger’s solo dps is too far from most other classes’ solo dps, because it can easily stack some might and vuln and because there are no buffs that the pets don’t benefit from.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t think, ranger’s solo dps is too far from most other classes’ solo dps, because it can easily stack some might and vuln and because there are no buffs that the pets don’t benefit from.

Agreed. I don’t know about soloing dungeons or fractals, but nothing should be able to do that anyways. We do fine. In fact, we’re one of the better classes for OW roaming, and provide good support and dps in a group if traited properly.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t think, ranger’s solo dps is too far from most other classes’ solo dps, because it can easily stack some might and vuln and because there are no buffs that the pets don’t benefit from.

Clearly you haven’t tried other classes in pve then?

Ranger dps do not even come close to revs, eles, warriors in pve.

Not even by HALF.

Ranger solo dps suck so bad.

bearshaman.3421:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t think, ranger’s solo dps is too far from most other classes’ solo dps, because it can easily stack some might and vuln and because there are no buffs that the pets don’t benefit from.

Agreed. I don’t know about soloing dungeons or fractals, but nothing should be able to do that anyways. We do fine. In fact, we’re one of the better classes for OW roaming, and provide good support and dps in a group if traited properly.

lol, they’ve done that for, uh, 4+ years.

This is why this game needs official DPS meters, so clueless people who live in WvW/sPvP can be helped to grasp the concept of DPS as clearly they are confusing their rapid fire burst and raven F2 for DPS.

Swagger.1459:

Here are some tests from Reddit user “PoorYarga”…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4g7y77/heres_a_dps_comparison_of_43_ranger_builds/

Swagger.1459:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Yeah…

Swagger.1459:

Swagger.1459:

Here are some tests from Reddit user “PoorYarga”…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4g7y77/heres_a_dps_comparison_of_43_ranger_builds/

Swagger.1459:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Yeah…

That’s not the solo dps build. This one is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwRyaBw2TY

gin.7158:

Swagger.1459:

Swagger.1459:

Here are some tests from Reddit user “PoorYarga”…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4g7y77/heres_a_dps_comparison_of_43_ranger_builds/

Swagger.1459:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Yeah…

That’s not the solo dps build. This one is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwRyaBw2TY

Lol do you think traps are worth it? The golem is not even moving. This will not happen a lot of the time in actual fighting. and spike trap is on a 36 second cd. smh..

Also, the meta SB A/T is only clocking at 20 dps and thats with inflated flanking results.

20. Eles, Warriors, Revs, Engineers are all sitting at 30.

Zenith.7301:

This is why this game needs official DPS meters, so clueless people who live in WvW/sPvP can be helped to grasp the concept of DPS as clearly they are confusing their rapid fire burst and raven F2 for DPS.

That and go back to splitting skills for different modes. When they decided to throw skill splits out the window, balancing became more difficult on their end in regards to the 3 diverse modes.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Zenith.7301:

This is why this game needs official DPS meters, so clueless people who live in WvW/sPvP can be helped to grasp the concept of DPS as clearly they are confusing their rapid fire burst and raven F2 for DPS.

That and go back to splitting skills for different modes. When they decided to throw skill splits out the window, balancing became more difficult on their end in regards to the 3 diverse modes.

Nah, it’s actually much easier. They have less to juggle and it’s not like they even pretend to care about pve or wvw balance.

Stuff that is just horrendously over powered in PvE like staff Ele is allowed to remain as long as it doesn’t step on pvp’s toes.

Yeah, that’s one of the sad parts about it; them just not really caring about PvE or WvW balance. They stick so close to thematics that Ranger personal dps will always remain low because, thematically, it’s a Ranger.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Yeah, that’s one of the sad parts about it; them just not really caring about PvE or WvW balance. They stick so close to thematics that Ranger personal dps will always remain low because, thematically, it’s a the ginger child nobody love.

ftfy.

I think Anet devs dont know how to balance the pet and the ranger together, mechanically it’s like fighting 2 enemies instead 1.

Did you see what they did to the hiena pet because it can call an ally? So they halved the pet stats making that pet be completely useless. Even if you can keep 2 of those running around, the lack of dps and health is simply awful.

They want the pet to deal damage but if it does it get nerfed. Meanwhile we have attacks like Revenants Coalescence of Ruin that hit for 10.000 hit points at 1200 range to up to 15 targets (5 per patch and there are three), have 4 seconds CD and cast of 1 second that it’s actually 1 second, no weird pre or aftercast animations.

I saw this in the pvp forum. It beats my pvp druid on everything, lol!

anduriell.6280:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Yeah, that’s one of the sad parts about it; them just not really caring about PvE or WvW balance. They stick so close to thematics that Ranger personal dps will always remain low because, thematically, it’s a the ginger child nobody love.

ftfy.

I think Anet devs dont know how to balance the pet and the ranger together, mechanically it’s like fighting 2 enemies instead 1.

Did you see what they did to the hiena pet because it can call an ally? So they halved the pet stats making that pet be completely useless. Even if you can keep 2 of those running around, the lack of dps and health is simply awful.

They want the pet to deal damage but if it does it get nerfed. Meanwhile we have attacks like Revenants Coalescence of Ruin that hit for 10.000 hit points at 1200 range to up to 15 targets (5 per patch and there are three), have 4 seconds CD and cast of 1 second that it’s actually 1 second, no weird pre or aftercast animations.

Anet knows about profession flaws, balance between modes flaws, low quality roles to play flaws, combat system flaws (like conditions and mid combat stealth)… They just choose not to do anything about it.

Anet picks a couple of bullet points to throw in to patches and doesn’t do anything substantial to improve the most important aspects of the game. All professions are in the same boat, so it’s not limited to ranger.

Actually it can make sense.
In case you have no other classes to bring and happen to go with … Like 3 or 4 rangers – where those dedicated to DPS don’t have to sacrifice +30% bleeding for Spotter and can go traps instead of spirits etc – then the build is viable.

If there’s no more than 2 rangers – you are anchoring the squad. Because you literally trade like 20% of the damage output of 5 people (you included) for 7K dps.
And that reeks of role-play aka being selfish, just as the build claims.

StickerHappy.8052:

Clearly you haven’t tried other classes in pve then?

Ranger dps do not even come close to revs, eles, warriors in pve.

Not even by HALF.

Ranger solo dps suck so bad.

It is true, that i don’t play other classes, but are they really able to pull of 20k+ dps solo? Staff ele maybe against large hitboxes, but other classes? I doubt it.

(I can easily get 11-12k dps against the golem, without additional buffs/vuln. Highest was actually 13,1k with a different build, that only works solo against a stationary single target though. And i don’t even have optimal gear).

Rangers dps is fairly weak. It relies too much on AoE and damage over time. We lack real burst skills and utilities. If you take a look at our utilities, probably Sick Em has the most dps potential as an individual utility. Now that is quite an illustration.

QZ + SotP + SotW + LB5 + LB2 + Axe4 + Axe5 -> there is your burst.

@ everyone: Feel free to prove me wrong and provide some actual numbers of other classes’ solo dps/burst/whatever for a comparison. For now i only know about the test from qT, where they only used support focused druid builds with raid settings/full buffs.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

QZ + SotP + SotW + LB5 + LB2 + Axe4 + Axe5 -> there is your burst.

@ everyone: Feel free to prove me wrong and provide some actual numbers of other classes’ solo dps/burst/whatever for a comparison. For now i only know about the test from qT, where they only used support focused druid builds with raid settings/full buffs.

Why don’t you do your own tests and report back…

Because i don’t have all classes/the the right gear for those.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Because i don’t have all classes/the the right gear for those.

lol and you feel in the position to talk about our DPS relative to other classes when you don’t even have other classes geared.

Seriously, just show me some actual dps numbers that prove your point and i will shut up.
Shouldn’t be an issue for you, right?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

QZ + SotP + SotW + LB5 + LB2 + Axe4 + Axe5 -> there is your burst.

@ everyone: Feel free to prove me wrong and provide some actual numbers of other classes’ solo dps/burst/whatever for a comparison. For now i only know about the test from qT, where they only used support focused druid builds with raid settings/full buffs.

I’m bored so I did some quick testing on this. Using the first output from the 1mil HP golem as a measure of “burst” DPS. I slotted the above skills for druid but everything else was the same as the power glyph buffer for raids. For Ele as comparison I took the raid ready D/Wh build and precasted air overload.

Druid (All buffs / boons) – 27,574 DPS
Ele (All buffs / boons) – 49,206 DPS

Druid (Only self applied buffs) – 12,924 DPS
Ele (Only self applied buffs) – 13,012 DPS
Ele (Only quickness applied) – 14,452 DPS

Conclusions, our power burst damage is competitive without boons but quickly falls off when you start to add the many damage multipliers available. Realistically Druid is pretty high in terms of burst damage, as shown by the KC burn phases.

Don’t read too much into these as they were just quick “1-shot” attempts, but it’s an interesting topic.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

QZ + SotP + SotW + LB5 + LB2 + Axe4 + Axe5 -> there is your burst.

@ everyone: Feel free to prove me wrong and provide some actual numbers of other classes’ solo dps/burst/whatever for a comparison. For now i only know about the test from qT, where they only used support focused druid builds with raid settings/full buffs.

Please, do not go that far.
…
I already created an excel equation that calculates the DPS of a ranger at the most ideal situation (stationary and perfect execution of a rotation) with only input required to be enemy toughness.
I used stats of full berserker.

It was roughly 95% accurate to my immobile gollem testing. But the real numbers can only go lower.

And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t dare people to bring you the numbers, because there are still people who do have them and they are not something you want to see at this moment.

When it came to a quick 8- second burst … We have been dominant for a very very very long time. But cooldowns for that to happen are way too long to make us reliable DPS users.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Seriously, just show me some actual dps numbers that prove your point and i will shut up.
Shouldn’t be an issue for you, right?

or, maybe, you could look at the pvp and wvw meta rankings over the course of almost 4 years to get an indication of true performance…

What has pvp and wvw meta to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing i guess …

Tragic Positive.9356:

And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t dare people to bring you the numbers, because there are still people who do have them and they are not something you want to see at this moment.

Power ranger’s sustained dps is indeed not very high, i know. But is it really so much worse than most other classes (there is not only ele)? By much worse i mean about half of the dmg, like some here are claiming.
And then there is the condi build, which is imo quite decent (solo) dps wise. Better than ele? No. Better than some other classes? Maybe. I don’t know. But i would like to know. Because i’m a curious person and interested in this topic, even if it is not relevant for actual gameplay.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power ranger’s sustained dps is indeed not very high, i know. But is it really so much worse than most other classes (there is not only ele)? By much worse i mean about half of the dmg, like some here are claiming.
And then there is the condi build, which is imo quite decent (solo) dps wise. Better than ele? No. Better than some other classes? Maybe. I don’t know. But i would like to know. Because i’m a curious person and interested in this topic, even if it is not relevant for actual gameplay.

It is indeed.
You see, we simply do not scale. Rangers are extremely powerful and efficient at open-world combat because we are technically self-sufficient when it comes to buffs. We have easy access to fury, might, we can actually get some easy access to quickness if we need to…
…
But we do not scale. All our abilities’ coefficients are hindered by ANet “because pet” and that pet ignores most of our traits and ignores all our buffs (if we want to talk about DPS spec).

The numbers that are 100% theoretical at the most perfect scenario are still lower than other classes (rev, DPS warrior, thief or DH) at real life data. And our pet simply sucks at moving targets.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

What has pvp and wvw meta to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing i guess …

Tragic Positive.9356:

And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t dare people to bring you the numbers, because there are still people who do have them and they are not something you want to see at this moment.

Power ranger’s sustained dps is indeed not very high, i know. But is it really so much worse than most other classes (there is not only ele)? By much worse i mean about half of the dmg, like some here are claiming.
And then there is the condi build, which is imo quite decent (solo) dps wise. Better than ele? No. Better than some other classes? Maybe. I don’t know. But i would like to know. Because i’m a curious person and interested in this topic, even if it is not relevant for actual gameplay.

All professions can dps and burst and whatever… Yay a ranger can do damage and burst too!

Ok so we compare numbers to prove what point exactly?

Ranger has not been in the “cool kids” meta, but hey, they can dps and burst under the right conditions correct? They are regulated to buff and heal bots for raids right? Gotta nerf that search and rescue because, ya know, pretty groundbreaking comparatively…

These numbers are meaningless unless you put them in a competitive environment. Who can kill what PvE boss faster by the numbers is a silly argument you were looking to have. Go spvp and wvw against top players and let me know how it goes.

@ Tragic
I know about the “scaling issue” and yes, it is an actual issue that should be adressed somehow. But this topic is about solo dps, so self-buffing capabilities are more relevant than scaling with other classes’ buffs.
And while even a selfish condi ranger won’t have better dps than most other classes in a full buff setting (and therefore isn’t meta), it isn’t far away from those (less than 10% – excluding ele and thief, which are outliers dps wise). And might be better than some in a solo setting.

@ Swagger
Those numbers might be meaningless, but can be still interesting, right? If not interesting for you, why are you even looking at this thread?

Btw, I’m doing totally fine in WvW and PvP, just reached legend (yes, i know – it is meaningless …) a few minutes ago, with druid of course. And it saw some use in pro league, so i guess it is good enough even at the highest tiers of competition. Still has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

Swagger.1459:

<snip>

These numbers are meaningless unless you put them in a competitive environment. Who can kill what PvE boss faster by the numbers is a silly argument you were looking to have. Go spvp and wvw against top players and let me know how it goes.

PvE has it’s own competitive setting, from which time efficiency, or challenges such as playing content in less than full group or without food / nourishment or playing achievements or whatever is a merit.
Where damage is the most essential one. What you just said makes no sense, neither does it help the guy who came here to learn/find out something he didn’t know before.

I could just as easily say that damage, neither survival or utility matters in PvP. You just need to stand on a point. And I would be correct. So please, try to give people your answer or opinion on what has been asked. If you dislike a certain content, respect those who like it.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

@ Tragic
I know about the “scaling issue” and yes, it is an actual issue that should be adressed somehow. But this topic is about solo dps, so self-buffing capabilities are more relevant than scaling with other classes’ buffs.
And while even a selfish condi ranger won’t have better dps than most other classes in a full buff setting (and therefore isn’t meta), it isn’t far away from those (less than 10% – excluding ele and thief, which are outliers dps wise). And might be better than some in a solo setting.

Ahem… So … Are we talking about soloing personal story or another PvE content?
Because there’s no reason to ask for a class “solo” DPS… When you will never be in a solo situation. Not even in open world. You could actually ask what outfit is best for PvE content and it would have similar meaning.
If you don’t intend to interact with anyone – no one cares about the DPS.

If you do intend to interact with others – you already have to accept that you will be receiving and providing buffs. There’s no point in trying to ignore that.

The DPS tests data we have are all taken with full might, fury and quickness. If you really think there will be any more than 7 or 8 K DPS with a “solo” build where every buff you get is only the buff you provided … Than you are miserably mistaken.
And we fall off at AoE even more so.

Edit: This topic was about “selfish” DPS. Not solo DPS. Which means maximizing personal DPS in terms of choosing personal boosts, assuming these buffs are already provided by a ranger other than yourself.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

What has pvp and wvw meta to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing i guess …

Tragic Positive.9356:

And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t dare people to bring you the numbers, because there are still people who do have them and they are not something you want to see at this moment.

Power ranger’s sustained dps is indeed not very high, i know. But is it really so much worse than most other classes (there is not only ele)? By much worse i mean about half of the dmg, like some here are claiming.

And then there is the condi build, which is imo quite decent (solo) dps wise. Better than ele? No. Better than some other classes? Maybe. I don’t know. But i would like to know. Because i’m a curious person and interested in this topic, even if it is not relevant for actual gameplay.

As tragic said we have burst. But very low sustained dps even in a selfish build. A lot of it has to do how weak our autoattacks (1 skill) are compared to other classes. There is also the issue of some of our damage modifiers are single strike only or gimicky. Additionally a lot of our skills are just weaker versions of other classes skills on lower cool downs. EG Skills like Warriors Rush compared to our swoop are almost comical in the damage differences yet the functionality is very similar and overall creates a low net dps.

The issue is we partially need to be in this state because of druids support. What we need is a dps elite spec, so that we can make the choice between dps and support. Right now, doing large increases on base ranger is also net buffs for druid, which could cause problems across all game modes. Not saying we don’t need buffs, but dps wise we cannot be in-line with the amount of support we provide.

I know, it is not relevant for 99,9% of the game (basically only for soloing instanced content). But it is still interesting for me. Mostly out of curiosity. A bit because i’m sometimes trying to solo stuff (if i fail, it is because of my lack of knowledge/practise, not because i’m playing ranger).

Edit: Even those “selfish” 29-30k dps aren’t far away from classes like rev, guard, engi … It is not worth taking in an optimal setup, but the same is true even for thieves, because they are “only” 2nd best dps class.
And 7-8k might be the max for power ranger, but condi has significantly higher dps (11 – 13k solo dps, depending on build).

Rangers are designed EXTREMELY well to be completely self reliant. We don’t need other classes for soft cc, burst, hard control, procs, boons, or anything else really because we are fully capable of generating sufficient amounts of each on a personal level. This is in part due to the fact that we have pets. Which are suited for filling many gaps that we ourselves might not cover.

(the old longbow ranger build using wolves was a good example of this. A mix of soft cc, hard cc, and burst on both the ranger and his pet while having almost permanent fury and swiftness uptime as well as at the time decent personal cleansing and burst cooldowns.)

What tragic said earlier is very true though. We PERSONALLY do not scale in group combat.

Anet probably CAN’T fix that because in doing so they would make us so unbelievably broken in other forms of combat that we would likely shred people.

And so we had to be balanced with that in mind.

For example, In PvP our damage and CC is EXTREMELY predictable turning most fights that don’t end in a few seconds in our favor into attrition style fights. But since were self sufficient we can HANDLE that kind of combat. Our damage is applied in ways that are very easy to negate entirely in Team fights however. Confining us to 2v2s and 1v1s as far as damage dealing goes. The more players in the field. The less effective we are. On the damage front.

Similar to raids our damage does not increase in group combat the same way other classes do. Our pets are unlikely to gain the effects of banners,spirits,traits for example. Which is why nature magic is so popular so that the pet can get boons atleast from the ranger. Likewise our weapons themselves don’t scale as high in high boon situations as others do. Our max hits are lower than the hits of other classes with smiliar attack speeds. Thats including the pets contributions usually. (Though their are exceptions here)

In order to match the dps of other “support” builds such as phalanx warrior. We have to give up certain things. We have to give up our own group support entirely.

Our class was likely balanced around the concept of self reliance. Which limits us when it comes to situations where all buffs would be provided ANYWAY.

Anet found a work around in the addition of unique damage buffs that can effect other players boosting THEIR damage to compensate for our personal lower maximum. Even better. These unique buffs in group situations while they would effect ourselves wouldn’t effect our pets most of the time. Keeping us balanced despite the massive damage boost were giving other players. Typically other people benefit MORE from our buffs than we ever can. I don’t think thats accidental.

It keeps our output under control despite our internal capabilities and yet made sure their was a reason to BRING us in the first place.

The down side of that is ultimately a rangers/druids worth is determined ALMOST solely by his ability to boost the damage of others. And not how he himself performs.

I BELIEVE (this is my own theory) Ranger was designed for an environment where boons themselves were less common. But the addition of more and more aoe boon generation made our self buffing capacity irrelevant.

To put it inter perspective. I roam on a commanders build that has permanent 25 stacks of might, Permanent fury, Permanent protection, Permanent vigor, and over 60% uptime on quickness.

On ANY OTHER CLASS that would be brokenly overpowered. Yet on ranger it makes sense because even with all those buffs it is still possible for other builds to crush me through group buffing. In the end in group combat my ability to buff myself to that extent is meaningless.

If the MASSIVE amount of aoe boon generation was heavily reduced. Ranger would appear alot higher on that dps priority. Because our damage would be reliable and constant while other classes woudl be fluctuating both above and below our damage. We wouldn’t be NEARLY as affected by the reduction in aoe boon generation as several other classes and builds were. And builds that could stabily maintain their perssonel performance would intermingle with builds centered on dealing high periods of damage for a short time.

But as long as massive aoe boon generation is the norm. Our “Support” is the only thing keeping us interesting as far as composition goes.

But as it is. Classes that without that boon generation would be “burst” builds. Are in a constant state of burst because their fully buffed 100% of the time in organize combat. Meaning “Sustained damage” builds whose overall dps doesn’t fluctuate in any situation because their mechanics are all internal. Completely lose their place in compositions and are forced to abandon the dps roll in favor of further increasing the “burst/sustained” builds damage.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Swagger.1459:

<snip>

These numbers are meaningless unless you put them in a competitive environment. Who can kill what PvE boss faster by the numbers is a silly argument you were looking to have. Go spvp and wvw against top players and let me know how it goes.

PvE has it’s own competitive setting, from which time efficiency, or challenges such as playing content in less than full group or without food / nourishment or playing achievements or whatever is a merit.
Where damage is the most essential one. What you just said makes no sense, neither does it help the guy who came here to learn/find out something he didn’t know before.

I could just as easily say that damage, neither survival or utility matters in PvP. You just need to stand on a point. And I would be correct. So please, try to give people your answer or opinion on what has been asked. If you dislike a certain content, respect those who like it.

“And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.”

WvW and spvp is some pretty good real time combat.

My comments were appropriate with all things considered.

If we’re going for solo DPS I’d actually pick out Daredevil or warrior instead of ele.

My Daredevil basically starts a fight with two 10k vaults without might (higher than anything a ranger has for an attack that can be used every 5 seconds given initiative regen).

Their bounding dodge does about 6k crits, higher than our average maul crit without might stacks (and they got effectively 6 dodges with the heal).

Their autoattack final part of the chain also does about 6k (and reflects), not counting the previous steps.

Problem is even if pet benefited from boons, they wouldn’t come close to closing the gap.

Pets don’t have 220% crit damage bonus (even with BM traitline, they’re far, far below that) like a zerker ranger. Or the crit chance we do.

Pets did not gain a stat boost like other classes did with 10% stat boost and weapon damage increase from ascended gear.

Pets do not benefit from maintenance oils or sharpening stones, or runes or sigils.

Pets have a static set of stats in terms of power, so while you gear zerker you gain an immense proportion of power and precision but your pets are lucky to have anywhere close to your levels of gained stats.

Basically, pets scale like garbage, and that’s why they are such a tiny part of ranger DPS.

That is also why it sucks that ranger pays a pet tax on their power weapon base numbers and coefficients, yet their condi weapons don’t and that is why historically rangers in most game formats have been condi specced because their condies don’t do any less damage due to a pet.

Rangers pay a pet tax on power weapons for no reason whatsoever. They need to revert the closed beta nerfs on greatsword, remove the range variations on damage for longbow (even then a staff ele with fireball+lava font would outDPS a longbow ranger, and that’s cleaving damage which the ranger doesn’t even have), and buff the damage of 15+ sec cd attacks like Serpent Strike and Path of Scars and Hunter’s Call.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I know, it is not relevant for 99,9% of the game (basically only for soloing instanced content). But it is still interesting for me. Mostly out of curiosity. A bit because i’m sometimes trying to solo stuff (if i fail, it is because of my lack of knowledge/practise, not because i’m playing ranger).

Edit: Even those “selfish” 29-30k dps aren’t far away from classes like rev, guard, engi … It is not worth taking in an optimal setup, but the same is true even for thieves, because they are “only” 2nd best dps class.
And 7-8k might be the max for power ranger, but condi has significantly higher dps (11 – 13k solo dps, depending on build).

Nowhere near 13K …
Just go and try it out. You will never get to 13K with a “solo” build. I sincerely doubt that. Your best go at solo builds would be abusing Companion’s Might and WHaO synergy.

Otherwise you can wave goodbye to your DPS without might.

Uhm, i don’t make up some random numbers. Of course I tried it out against the dps test golem. And I reached 13k dps against the small one (1 mil. hp) with this build, despite not having viper trinkets and using cheap food.
(with the known WS variant, which should be better vs multiple targets, because the vuln stacking from Remorseless is only single target, i got about 12k dps).

@ Zenith
So how much solo dps do you get on thief and warrior? Can’t be so hard to post those numbers …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Uhm, i don’t make up some random numbers. Of course I tried it out against the dps test golem. And I reached 13k dps against the small one (1 mil. hp) with this build, despite not having viper trinkets and using cheap food.
(with the known WS variant, which should be better vs multiple targets, because the vuln stacking from Remorseless is only single target, i got about 12k dps).

@ Zenith
So how much solo dps do you get on thief and warrior? Can’t be so hard to post those numbers …

Swagger.1459:

Here are some tests from Reddit user “PoorYarga”…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4g7y77/heres_a_dps_comparison_of_43_ranger_builds/

I posted this earlier but you stated you only saw the qT one. It’s helpful to look at more ranger builds for this discussion.

I saw this ranger build comparison (quite interesting one, he doesn’t use optimal builds for solo dps though), but it says nothing about other classes’ dps. The qT test is the only one i know, which compares different classes (and it compares dps builds with support builds), that’s what i meant.

There you go, DnT DPS test of staff daredevil vs. D/D daredevil.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Uhm, i don’t make up some random numbers. Of course I tried it out against the dps test golem. And I reached 13k dps against the small one (1 mil. hp) with this build, despite not having viper trinkets and using cheap food.
(with the known WS variant, which should be better vs multiple targets, because the vuln stacking from Remorseless is only single target, i got about 12k dps).

Okay, I think you got me on this one. I wasn’t thinking of Remorseless, which might add up a nice bulk to he numbers I got.
For me it just seemed like way too illogical choice to go for the traitline that doesn’t add anything for your main source of damage. But it seems like it can work.

Getting 14k with staff daredevil without other class buffs. Had to change build around to trickery for the 1 mil golem.

Seems like pointless limitations as without boons you are basically in a solo open world environment in which the condi druid wont have time to ramp up his condi DPS and most mobs die to trivial burst, and in any extended setting you got people around you buffing with might or fire fields to blast yourself which make the other classes pull ahead by a large margin.

The ranger also uses a niche build that will never see group play to adjust for these numbers while the other classes will use their meta builds and just scale off better in PvE.

I will grant that the one thing ranger has going for it is a less sleep inducing rotation.

Daredevil rotation is basically auto in between boundless dodges for the damage buff and use Fist Flurry on cooldown. The very definition of braindead.

gin.7158:

I saw sam video about selfish condi ranger build. It can pump out like 30k dps in the full buff situation. That’s like a rev without the support.

So it isn’t that bad, right?

Well… you are talking about “solo” and “full buffs” in the same question. That doesn’t make any sense.

If you’re going to be thinking about “solo”, you have to say no buffs except those you generate yourself or get from food. In those situations we’re generally talking about 5-8k dps, not 20-30k.

Solo dps depends a lot on what you can do with might/fury/vuln. Ranger does vuln quite well, fury very well, and can get some might by traiting for pet might on crit then copying that with “heal as one”.

My kill times on a small kitty golem in realistic open worlds builds with no buffs or food (gear not identical quality):

130s Shroud camping power reaper (25 might, 25 vuln, 100% crit from traits)
140s condi engi (would probably win if I knew the rotation)
150s d/w power tempest running meta raid rotation
145s d/w power tempest running non-meta rotation with blasts for might worked in
165s power ranger frost spotter with fury from tiger and might from heal as one
180-200s guardian (hadn’t unlocked dragonhunter), daredevil (with no party buffs, just auto attacking for max vuln and fury is close to meta rotation), power glyph buffer druid
220s mesmer
Haven’t done warrior, revenant

So I think ranger ain’t bad for solo dps (and the burst is decent too, and the flexibility). Its personal dps in a group is not that hot, but personal dps is half the story in a group.

all this math and time dedicated to answering a question that could be answered extremely easily.

In a SOLO situation your DPS DOES NOT MATTER.

if you’re truly solo and getting no buffs from allies, i.e. soloing dungeons or personal story, then druid can excel due to it’s high survivability. you have to be able to remain alive in order to solo dungeons. the ele and thief builds that max out dps do so at the cost of survivability.

On the other hand if you’re really asking about a max dps build that can be used in almost all the other content then the condi druid is decent but not the best when compared to other classes. ele’s and thieves are the kings of power damage and necro is the king of condi. all other classes fall off from those three. when it comes to GROUP dps druid is the lowest but is brought for the buffs only they bring, Not DPS.

Prophet.1584:

all this math and time dedicated to answering a question that could be answered extremely easily.

In a SOLO situation your DPS DOES NOT MATTER.

if you’re truly solo and getting no buffs from allies, i.e. soloing dungeons or personal story, then druid can excel due to it’s high survivability. you have to be able to remain alive in order to solo dungeons. the ele and thief builds that max out dps do so at the cost of survivability.

On the other hand if you’re really asking about a max dps build that can be used in almost all the other content then the condi druid is decent but not the best when compared to other classes. ele’s and thieves are the kings of power damage and necro is the king of condi. all other classes fall off from those three. when it comes to GROUP dps druid is the lowest but is brought for the buffs only they bring, Not DPS.

Condi engineer does more DPS single target than a condi necro by far, as does condi ranger.

Condi necro is a thing because of the amount of utility they bring by comparison. Condi necro manipulates condi cleanses for group well, corrupts boons on autoattack, and epidemic is among the strongest AoE tools next to Meteor Shower in the game.

Against a single target there’s no reason to bring a condi necro over a condi engineer, ever. Their DPS is middling if they can’t game Epidemics.

In fact, if DPS is all that matters in a group setting, condi engineer completely eclipses the other condi builds by a large margin.

Zenith.7301:

In fact, if DPS is all that matters in a group setting, condi engineer completely eclipses the other condi builds by a large margin.

vs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwRyaBw2TY

This “large margin” you’re talking about isn’t really there. It’s just that rangers can do better in raids than playing a selfish personal dps build…

Zenith.7301:

Prophet.1584:

all this math and time dedicated to answering a question that could be answered extremely easily.

In a SOLO situation your DPS DOES NOT MATTER.

if you’re truly solo and getting no buffs from allies, i.e. soloing dungeons or personal story, then druid can excel due to it’s high survivability. you have to be able to remain alive in order to solo dungeons. the ele and thief builds that max out dps do so at the cost of survivability.

On the other hand if you’re really asking about a max dps build that can be used in almost all the other content then the condi druid is decent but not the best when compared to other classes. ele’s and thieves are the kings of power damage and necro is the king of condi. all other classes fall off from those three. when it comes to GROUP dps druid is the lowest but is brought for the buffs only they bring, Not DPS.

Condi engineer does more DPS single target than a condi necro by far, as does condi ranger.

Condi necro is a thing because of the amount of utility they bring by comparison. Condi necro manipulates condi cleanses for group well, corrupts boons on autoattack, and epidemic is among the strongest AoE tools next to Meteor Shower in the game.

Against a single target there’s no reason to bring a condi necro over a condi engineer, ever. Their DPS is middling if they can’t game Epidemics.

In fact, if DPS is all that matters in a group setting, condi engineer completely eclipses the other condi builds by a large margin.

You must not PvE much, condi engineer has one of the most complex and difficult to learn rotations. If that rotation is not done perfectly everytime DPS falls off quickly. Condi ranger is no where near as complex but if Quickdraw bonfires are not done correctly DPS falls off very quickly. Necro can kitten on a stick and get max condi dps through epedemic and using horrors to apply massive amounts of bleeding. Sure in perfectly optimal conditions condi engi outDPS’s all other condi classes but i’ve only seen a few people play engi that well.

There’s a real reason why condi engi stopped being in demand as much for raids

edit: I will also add that for Rangers to max out condi DPS we have to play a completely selfish build that does nothing for the team. There is very little content in this game that is meant to be played completely solo therefore playing a build that gimps your team is not desired. When you build a condi or power Druid you’re not putting out nearly as much personal dps but buffing the entire team.

Prophet.1584:

edit: I will also add that for Rangers to max out condi DPS we have to play a completely selfish build that does nothing for the team. There is very little content in this game that is meant to be played completely solo therefore playing a build that gimps your team is not desired. When you build a condi or power Druid you’re not putting out nearly as much personal dps but buffing the entire team.

What build is that?